I'm down here in Hershey, PA at the moment, a notable town for several reasons. One of these reasons (to people like me who think about these things) is that the place is unincorporated: it's not a city or borough as most substantial settlements in PA would be, but an unincorporated part of Derry Township. Nevertheless, it's definitely an urban entity with centralized development and a strong individual identity, and in the Northeast at least, such a thing is almost always a corporate entity.
So it got me thinking, what other substantial, prominent "towns" are there, that in fact have no individual political existence? By that I don't mean large suburban areas that outlie a major city, such as you find all over Long Island (though there might be some appropriate locales there as well...Riverhead comes to mind). It would be a centralized settlement with a well-defined core, such as would usually constitue a town, village, city, borough or similar entity.
There are probably more than occur to me at the moment, but I'd bet that Hershey is among the most famous.
Sherwood Park, just east of Edmonton in Alberta is part of Strathcona county. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherwood_Park
One near me is Chester, VA. According to Wikipedia it has a population of 20,000. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester,_Virginia
Honolulu, Hawai'i, as well as any other "municipality" in Hawai'i. There are no incorporated places in the entire state!
Eagle River, Eagle Harbor, and Copper Harbor, Michigan. One of the three is the county seat of Keweenaw County.
Anything in Virginia that isn't an incorporated city, which I think is about 30 communities total, though I may be off on the number. I know I was shocked to hear that there is no city of Arlington, Virginia, only the county.
The area wherein the Las Vegas Strip resides is actually unincorporated Clark County.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 01, 2012, 12:19:50 AM
Anything in Virginia that isn't an incorporated city, which I think is about 30 communities total, though I may be off on the number. I know I was shocked to hear that there is no city of Arlington, Virginia, only the county.
It's more complicated than that. Virginia has 95 counties and 39 independent cities (not part of any county). However, some of the counties include incorporated cities and other places, each subject to both its own local government and the government of its county.
But yeah, Arlington County has no incorporated communities therein. (Still much smaller population than Honolulu, though.)
Quote from: empirestate on December 31, 2011, 10:37:44 PM
I'm down here in Hershey, PA at the moment, a notable town for several reasons. One of these reasons (to people like me who think about these things) is that the place is unincorporated: it's not a city or borough as most substantial settlements in PA would be, but an unincorporated part of Derry Township. Nevertheless, it's definitely an urban entity with centralized development and a strong individual identity, and in the Northeast at least, such a thing is almost always a corporate entity.
So it got me thinking, what other substantial, prominent "towns" are there, that in fact have no individual political existence? By that I don't mean large suburban areas that outlie a major city, such as you find all over Long Island (though there might be some appropriate locales there as well...Riverhead comes to mind). It would be a centralized settlement with a well-defined core, such as would usually constitue a town, village, city, borough or similar entity.
There are probably more than occur to me at the moment, but I'd bet that Hershey is among the most famous.
Highlands Ranch, Colorado. It is, for all intents and purposes, a city of nearly 100K, with the strong identity found in most incorporated cities. It is organized, however, as a Metropolitan District.
Toms River, NJ (the county seat of Ocean County, NJ) was an unicorporated part of Dover Township. Now the name of Dover was changed to Toms River, so you can now say it is fully corporated. Although the original enity is still what is was in the township that now bears its name.
Islelin, Colonia. Avenel, Sewaren, Port Reading, and Fords are unincorporated parts of Woodbridge, NJ. However, one part of Woodbridge Township is considered Metuchen, NJ cause the Metuchen Post Office delivers mail to this section located west of US 1 south of Interchange 130 on the GSP. Woodbridge is one of the top 5 largest cities in New Jersey.
Merrit Island, FL is not established either, and is part of Brevard County. It is widely noted as much as Cocoa and Cocoa Beach, its neighbors that are corporated.
Quote from: brad2971 on January 01, 2012, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 31, 2011, 10:37:44 PM
I'm down here in Hershey, PA at the moment, a notable town for several reasons. One of these reasons (to people like me who think about these things) is that the place is unincorporated: it's not a city or borough as most substantial settlements in PA would be, but an unincorporated part of Derry Township. Nevertheless, it's definitely an urban entity with centralized development and a strong individual identity, and in the Northeast at least, such a thing is almost always a corporate entity.
So it got me thinking, what other substantial, prominent "towns" are there, that in fact have no individual political existence? By that I don't mean large suburban areas that outlie a major city, such as you find all over Long Island (though there might be some appropriate locales there as well...Riverhead comes to mind). It would be a centralized settlement with a well-defined core, such as would usually constitue a town, village, city, borough or similar entity.
There are probably more than occur to me at the moment, but I'd bet that Hershey is among the most famous.
Highlands Ranch, Colorado. It is, for all intents and purposes, a city of nearly 100K, with the strong identity found in most incorporated cities. It is organized, however, as a Metropolitan District.
As is Pueblo West, which I believe at 30K is the second-largest metro district in the state. As a metro district, we cannot enact a local sales tax, which in Colorado is one of the primary sources of local revenue.
When Rand McNally redid their map design for the 2011 edition, they wiped metro districts from the Colorado map. So there's no Pueblo West or Highlands Ranch, but they did add an entity (not a census-designated place) called "Wild Horse", which is a collection of trailers and a few horse farms north of U.S. 50 between Pueblo and Pueblo West. If you asked anyone around here where Wild Horse is, they might think of the road but not a community.
Not as famous as Hershey, but here in Western PA, one of the biggest unincorporated communities is probably Wexford.
Heh, I lived in the Wexford ZIP for nearly a year. I never identified with the actual village of Wexford; it wasn't even in the same township, and the developed area surrounding it had no relation to the scale or influence of that village. It's actually my go-to example of the confusion often found among people about where exactly they live, thanks largely to post office naming practices.
Greenwich CT is unincorporated. the "city proper" is one of 5 zip-code regions in the Town of Greenwich
Honolulu is the only true city in Hawaii, but the technicality is that Honolulu is the entire Oahu island (merged with the county). So in a sense the "city" is a misnomer.
What about the Borough of Queens in NYC? The Post Office allows each section (such as Woodside, Flushing, etc) to be called as communities of their own with people reffering to them as parts of Long Island (although Brooklyn and Queens are part of Long Island contrary to misconception).
The other boroughs are called by their respected name like the mailing address for all parts of Staten Island are called that. Only Manhattan gets to be called New York even though all five boroughs are indeed NYC.
Quote from: Master son on January 01, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Honolulu is the only true city in Hawaii, but the technicality is that Honolulu is the entire Oahu island (merged with the county). So in a sense the "city" is a misnomer.
But urban Honolulu has a discrete "census designated place" (and Census population count) of its own, that excludes most of Oahu and more than half of Oahu's population. Plus there are other separate "cities" (CDPs) on Oahu, some with tens of thousands of residents, such as Kailua, Kaneohe, Pearl City, etc. At least one of those other communities has a larger population than Hilo, the largest city in the rest of Hawaii.
:banghead: I missed that part.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
What about the Borough of Queens in NYC? The Post Office allows each section (such as Woodside, Flushing, etc) to be called as communities of their own with people reffering to them as parts of Long Island (although Brooklyn and Queens are part of Long Island contrary to misconception).
The other boroughs are called by their respected name like the mailing address for all parts of Staten Island are called that. Only Manhattan gets to be called New York even though all five boroughs are indeed NYC.
All the boroughs correspond to counties that few people know about. Only the Bronx and Queens have the same borough and county names. Manhattan is New York county (hence the post office name), Brooklyn is Kings county, and Staten Island is Richmond county.
Quote from: Brandon on December 31, 2011, 11:35:58 PM
Honolulu, Hawai'i, as well as any other "municipality" in Hawai'i. There are no incorporated places in the entire state!
OK, Honolulu CDP would be a pretty good candidate that I overlooked. It's a little imperfect because Honolulu is also an entity coextensive with a county, but taking just the CDP separately from the whole county fits pretty well. You have a similar situation with Arlington, VA...although it isn't itself incorporated, it is coextensive with a county and doesn't seem to have any additional identity inside of that county boundary (the way that Honolulu CDP does within Honolulu city/county).
Quote from: CL on January 01, 2012, 03:43:28 AM
The area wherein the Las Vegas Strip resides is actually unincorporated Clark County.
That one would fall under the suburban areas exclusion, except for the notable point that it is the unincorporated Strip Area that most people identify as Las Vegas.
Quote from: brad2971 on January 01, 2012, 12:55:45 PM
Highlands Ranch, Colorado. It is, for all intents and purposes, a city of nearly 100K, with the strong identity found in most incorporated cities. It is organized, however, as a Metropolitan District.
Definitely an example of a suburban area, like Pueblo West also mentioned. A similar East Coast example would be Levittown, NY (or Levittown, PA, or...): highly developed area with good name recognition, but lacking the core settlement pattern that typically triggers a town/borough/city formation. (I realize I'm taking an East Coast perspective on that, and that there are many Western incorporated cities that would look more like a Levittown or a Highland Ranch, but these don't strike me as particularly unusual.)
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
What about the Borough of Queens in NYC? The Post Office allows each section (such as Woodside, Flushing, etc) to be called as communities of their own with people reffering to them as parts of Long Island (although Brooklyn and Queens are part of Long Island contrary to misconception).
Some of the Queens neighborhoods do retain very individual qualitites, like the discrete cities and towns they once were, but they are all now covered under the New York City municipal corporation (and places like Flushing were previously corporate entities of their own).
Quote from: Master son on January 01, 2012, 06:48:13 PM
Greenwich CT is unincorporated. the "city proper" is one of 5 zip-code regions in the Town of Greenwich
New England's minor civil divisions (towns, mostly) do throw a little wrench into the works. While the relationship of Greenwich "proper" to the Town of Greenwich is similar to that between Hershey and Derry Township, New England towns on the whole tend to retain much stronger identities than Pennsylvania townships. What's more, the Greenwich-type will tend to be found an a huge percentage of New England communities as a result.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2012, 01:27:47 PM
Toms River, NJ (the county seat of Ocean County, NJ) was an unicorporated part of Dover Township. Now the name of Dover was changed to Toms River, so you can now say it is fully corporated. Although the original enity is still what is was in the township that now bears its name.
Good example, and similar to Riverhead, NY...although the name change in Toms River's case interestingly brings up the question of how much the name itself matters. I mean, if Hershey were located in Hershey Township I would never have even brought it up, even though it's unusual in PA for a township to share the name of its central settlement (in marked contrast to New York State and its towns). And taking again the Greenwich example, what if Mianus or Cos Cob had ended up becoming the "downtown" of Greenwich town?
But I suppose, since identity and name recognition is a big criterion in the question, you could say it matters rather a lot. :D
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2012, 01:27:47 PM
Toms River, NJ (the county seat of Ocean County, NJ) was an unicorporated part of Dover Township. Now the name of Dover was changed to Toms River, so you can now say it is fully corporated. Although the original enity is still what is was in the township that now bears its name.
Islelin, Colonia. Avenel, Sewaren, Port Reading, and Fords are unincorporated parts of Woodbridge, NJ. However, one part of Woodbridge Township is considered Metuchen, NJ cause the Metuchen Post Office delivers mail to this section located west of US 1 south of Interchange 130 on the GSP. Woodbridge is one of the top 5 largest cities in New Jersey.
Merrit Island, FL is not established either, and is part of Brevard County. It is widely noted as much as Cocoa and Cocoa Beach, its neighbors that are corporated.
In most states there are unincorporated areas. In NJ and as far as I know PA, NY and most of New England everywhere is incorporated as a town or township. ( It is amazing when you look at NJ with 566 or so incorporated towns and then a state like Maryland with a handful of incorporated places. )
I guess that is why New England states the counties are not really that important for governance. It brings up a question I have seen NC maps with Townships, how important are they in governing or are they just for something like fire districts
Quote from: jwolfer on January 02, 2012, 02:15:29 PM
In most states there are unincorporated areas. In NJ and as far as I know PA, NY and most of New England everywhere is incorporated as a town or township. ( It is amazing when you look at NJ with 566 or so incorporated towns and then a state like Maryland with a handful of incorporated places. )
I guess that is why New England states the counties are not really that important for governance. It brings up a question I have seen NC maps with Townships, how important are they in governing or are they just for something like fire districts
Everything in NY and PA is
organized into a township or town or city or borough (in PA). The term "incorporated" is not generally used to refer to these entities, even though they do constitute a unit of government. I think New England's towns are more likely to be called "incorporated", but the census still makes a distinction. In fact, they discuss it very thoroughly here: http://www.census.gov/geo/www/garm.html . Chapters 8 and 9 in particular deal with the distinction between, and overlap of, minor civil divisions and incorporated places and describes how each state is organized for such purposes.
Probably because the census's definitions are reflected in usual cartographic practice, I have always thought of incorporated places in the same way they describe, i.e., as distinct from minor civil divisions.
Quote from: empirestate on January 02, 2012, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on January 02, 2012, 02:15:29 PM
In most states there are unincorporated areas. In NJ and as far as I know PA, NY and most of New England everywhere is incorporated as a town or township. ( It is amazing when you look at NJ with 566 or so incorporated towns and then a state like Maryland with a handful of incorporated places. )
I guess that is why New England states the counties are not really that important for governance. It brings up a question I have seen NC maps with Townships, how important are they in governing or are they just for something like fire districts
Everything in NY and PA is organized into a township or town or city or borough (in PA). The term "incorporated" is not generally used to refer to these entities, even though they do constitute a unit of government. I think New England's towns are more likely to be called "incorporated", but the census still makes a distinction. In fact, they discuss it very thoroughly here: http://www.census.gov/geo/www/garm.html . Chapters 8 and 9 in particular deal with the distinction between, and overlap of, minor civil divisions and incorporated places and describes how each state is organized for such purposes.
Probably because the census's definitions are reflected in usual cartographic practice, I have always thought of incorporated places in the same way they describe, i.e., as distinct from minor civil divisions.
I grew up in NJ and the townships there act as fully incorporated entities. Townships are fully functioning local governments more than a minor civil divisions. I think that at one time Townships were somewhat less formal. Thus the wave of boroughs in the late 19th and early 20th century. But with the massive suburbanization the township became like a city or borough. Interestingly NJ counties are still pretty strong. With the financial bind many municipalities are in, we will see some consolidation of munincipal governments in NJ... i am sure there are many who would love to see full county consolidation in NJ...i doubt it will happen anytime soon
In Kentucky, counties are the predominant form of government. Counties are creations of the state.
Cities are incorporated and can be created or dissolved.
Kentucky has at least one county (McCreary) with no incorporated cities, even though there is a place there named Whitley City.
If both Rand McNally and Wikipedia both say Metairie, LA is unincorporated, then it must be unincorporated. :sombrero:
North of the border, the municipality of Baie-James (http://www.villembj.ca/) claims to be the largest incorporated municipality in the world, covering 333,255.55 km² (128,670.69 square miles) of land, an area similar to the size of Finland or the state of New Mexico.
It is responsible for the maintenance of over 2100 kilometres (1300 miles) of high-standard (well, considering they serve about 20,000 people) concrete-paved and unpaved trunk highways, plus numerous roads to remote areas such as localities, indian reservations, mines, hydro power generating dams and lumbering sites.
Also, the municipality maintains a network of touristic infrastructures (http://www.villembj.ca/html/activites_installations_en.php) (unorganized campgrounds, hiking trails, boat launches, fishing sites, rest areas, restrooms, ...) along the highways for its residents and visitors to enjoy.
Quote from: jwolfer on January 02, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
I grew up in NJ and the townships there act as fully incorporated entities. Townships are fully functioning local governments more than a minor civil divisions.
That's true in NY as well, although they remain distinguished as MCDs. Towns are never referred to as incorporated entities, that term being reserved only for villages and cities. I think the difference is that in NJ, boroughs, villages and towns are independent of any township, so the townships do just as much to divide up the county as the other kinds, and each is disparate from the other. In NY, by contrast, villages are dependent of towns, so they get the "incorporated" moniker to distinguish them from the "unincorporated" towns that contain them. Nevertheless, the towns are strong governments, often more so than villages.
In PA, boroughs are independent of townships, but are usually geographically surrounded by them the way NY's villages are surrounded by towns. So there to, you get the same distinction as in NY, except that there isn't technically an overlap. Also, PA townships tend to be much weaker governments than NY towns or NJ townships.
Los Angeles has unincorporated areas like El Camino and Del Aire.
I'm from the Palm Springs area (my home town Indio) where we have like 5 unincorporated sections in the Indio zip code. The two communities of Bermuda Dunes and Thousand Palms are unincorporated and wish to remain so, as most residents are of higher incomes and professionals commute to office jobs live there...and they strongly opposed any formation of city government because it involves taxation for public services.
And then there's lower income North Palm Springs and Sky Valley both unincorporated places, as well affluent communities like Vista Santa Rosa where the world-famous annual Coachella Music Fest. is held and blue collar Cabazon (plans to be incorporated again, they were from 1956-1973 when the city council disbanded) where movies and music videos are set by its dinosaur statues seen along I-10. But tiny-sized Indian Wells is incorporated home to 4,000 residents has among the highest number of millionaires...per capita for a town its size.
And farther down from Coachella are farming towns Thermal and Mecca among the county's/state's/nation's poorest communities (and very high population density per square mile) and its high concentration of undocumented immigrants, meth labs (Noted in the movie "the Salton Sea"), mobile home parks, illegal toxic dump sites, Indian casinos (From the movie "29 Palms") in their reservations and convicted prison parolees sent there due to the rural lower population data.
Spring Valley, CA (east of San Diego) is unincorporated.
Here in MS, Gluckstadt (north of Jackson) is unincorporated, but there has been some small talk of incorporation (primarily, to protect itself from the city of Madison and its restrictive building codes). South of Jackson, Byram incorporated about a couple of years ago.
Cordova, TN, was an unincorporated area until being annexed by Memphis. Sandy Springs, GA, was incorporated a few years. Prior to that, it was unincorporated. With about 85K people, it was one of the larger unincorporated places in the country.
Well, we could certainly make a nice long thread here just mentioning which communities in various areas are incorporated or not (and actually, the "What Makes a Suburb a Town?" thread is covering that at the moment). But what I was looking for with this question are those places that are distinct, recognized central settlements in their own right. Such places would seem like the principal city, the one that would have the bigger dot on the map with only smaller dots surrounding it, or would be the "downtown" of a relatively large area. The original example was Hershey, PA. A much bigger example was Honolulu, HI (depending on how you reckon its incorporated status).
Perhaps another example would be Grand Canyon, AZ, although its claim is weakened a bit by being pretty much a single-purpose settlement. I think you could also count a lot of places in Maryland like Silver Spring, Bethesda and Towson, depending on whether you consider them subordinate to Washington or Baltimore. Cases like that are debatable, but I think you'll find that the roster of unincorporated suburbs of a major city doesn't fit the bill.
Suffern, NY is principal community, but it is a part of Ramapo, NY. The State of NY considers un-incorporated area as a hamlet.
Suffern is a village, so very much incorporated. And like all NYS villages, it is within a town, in this case Ramapo. A town isn't incorporated for the purposes of this topic, but Ramapo doesn't have any unincorporated settlements that fit the topic. (Pearl River is nearby and is unincorporated, and a sizable community, but it hasn't "cleared its neighborhood", as they say of planets.)
Quote from: empirestate on February 14, 2012, 09:44:12 PM
Suffern is a village, so very much incorporated. And like all NYS villages, it is within a town, in this case Ramapo. A town isn't incorporated for the purposes of this topic, but Ramapo doesn't have any unincorporated settlements that fit the topic. (Pearl River is nearby and is unincorporated, and a sizable community, but it hasn't "cleared its neighborhood", as they say of planets.)
Somebody must of misprinted it on wikipedia as it originally said hamlet and not village like it does now. Anyway, my mistake as I did see it has a mayor and is under supevision of Ramapo's government.
Metairie outside New Orleans is a large unincorporated city; in fact I think I once read that it is the largest unincorporated area in the nation. It has a population of close to 150,000 and has a lot of commercial development and some very upscale neighborhoods. Louisiana has a very large number of unincorporated areas, including some parish seats and large areas of the state's largest cities. Much of southeast Baton Rouge along US 61 and IH 10, where the Mall of Louisiana and alot of newer commercial and mixed-use development are located are in unincorporated East Baton Rouge Parish.
Quote from: achilles765 on October 11, 2012, 02:42:02 AM
Metairie outside New Orleans is a large unincorporated city; in fact I think I once read that it is the largest unincorporated area in the nation. It has a population of close to 150,000 and has a lot of commercial development and some very upscale neighborhoods. Louisiana has a very large number of unincorporated areas, including some parish seats and large areas of the state's largest cities. Much of southeast Baton Rouge along US 61 and IH 10, where the Mall of Louisiana and alot of newer commercial and mixed-use development are located are in unincorporated East Baton Rouge Parish.
I realize now I should have been more specific in the subject thread. :-/
Metairie is an outlying area of New Orleans, and southeast Baton Rouge...well, that would be an outlying area of Baton Rouge. No matter how well-established the name Metairie may be locally, I just can't see it as anywhere near separate enough from NO to qualify. Another example would be Brookline, MA...not incorporated (for this topic's semantic purposes) but inextricably woven into the fabric of greater Boston. Doesn't count.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2012, 01:27:47 PM
Toms River, NJ (the county seat of Ocean County, NJ) was an unicorporated part of Dover Township. Now the name of Dover was changed to Toms River, so you can now say it is fully corporated. Although the original enity is still what is was in the township that now bears its name.
Islelin, Colonia. Avenel, Sewaren, Port Reading, and Fords are unincorporated parts of Woodbridge, NJ. However, one part of Woodbridge Township is considered Metuchen, NJ cause the Metuchen Post Office delivers mail to this section located west of US 1 south of Interchange 130 on the GSP. Woodbridge is one of the top 5 largest cities in New Jersey.
Merrit Island, FL is not established either, and is part of Brevard County. It is widely noted as much as Cocoa and Cocoa Beach, its neighbors that are corporated.
Don't forget Viera, our de facto county seat. Folks can use Viera, FL on their mail but the entire community is in unincorporated Brevard County.
The suburbs of Washington, D.C. in Maryland and Virginia are full of unincorporated "towns."
The most famous of which may be Tysons Corner in Fairfax County, Va. But the "new town" of Reston is also unincorporated, as is Springfield and the entire (small) county of Arlington, Va. (often considered its own city by the Postal Service). Large areas of Fairfax County have the "city" name of Alexandria or Falls Church (both of which are incorporated cities), but the parts of the county with those names are unincorporated
In Maryland, none of Montgomery County's Silver Spring is incorporated (even though it spans many Zip codes). Bethesda, Potomac and Germantown are not incorporated either. Neighboring Prince George's County has relatively more incorporated areas than the rest of the D.C. area (some of them are really small, others a little bigger), yet Beltsville, Fort Washington, Camp Springs and Forestville are all unincorporated. Like Fairfax County, there are unincorporated parts of Prince George's County that have Postal Service-assigned "city" names that are derived from nearby incorporated areas such as Upper Marlboro, New Carrollton and Hyattsville.
Here in Wisconsin, the Woodruff-Minocqua area, with two very well developed adjacent small-town 'cities', complete with fully established downtowns and so forth, located in a very vibrant 'northwoods' tourist area, is completely unincorporated and IMHO, should be incorporated along with a wide area of surrounding land as a 'City of Lakeland'.
Mike
Not much here in Nebraska in terms of unincorporated "cities". I know Chalco, in Sarpy County, is a CDP, but there really isn't a city there at all. In Cass County, they have Beaver Lake, which is a place many people claim to be from, but I'm not really sure it passes as a city, or even a small town. Sure, there's a lot of houses there, and there is the lake, but frankly, I don't know what to make of it.
One thing I don't think has been mentioned is one of the few other CDP's Nebraska has, which is Offutt AFB. How exactly do military bases fit into the whole scheme of things?
Finally, I'd feel like I was failing my duties if I didn't mention Whiteclay, in NW Nebraska, just over the border from Pine Ridge, South Dakota. I don't even want to try to say anything about that.
Here in Florida the County takes care of most munincipal services. There is really not much incentive to incorporate. Most people would rather not have to pay city taxes
Quote from: jwolfer on October 12, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
Here in Florida the County takes care of most munincipal services. There is really not much incentive to incorporate. Most people would rather not have to pay city taxes
In that case, Florida ought to be rife with examples...but is it? I can't come up with a prominent central settlement in Florida that isn't a city. Actually, it seems there are a whole bunch of really small cities in Florida that wouldn't pass incorporation muster in most other states.
Quote from: empirestate on October 12, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 12, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
Here in Florida the County takes care of most munincipal services. There is really not much incentive to incorporate. Most people would rather not have to pay city taxes
In that case, Florida ought to be rife with examples...but is it? I can't come up with a prominent central settlement in Florida that isn't a city. Actually, it seems there are a whole bunch of really small cities in Florida that wouldn't pass incorporation muster in most other states.
There are quite a few examples. Not large cities, but in the Jacksonville area the large suburbs of Middleburg and Ponte Vedra Beach are unincorporated( Although PVB does have a Municipal Service District for Garbage collection etc) What is pretty common is unincorporated areas with a mailing address of a city. ( for example The town of Orange Park has like 8000 people but large parts of unincorporated Clay County have Orange Park mailing addresses.. probably 100K range of population. The county provides law enforcement, fire protection etc). Parts of Orange County are unicorporated but have Orlando mailing address.
Palm Coast was unincorporated until 1999.The impetus for incorporation was improved fire protection being desired after the 1998 forest fires in Flagler County.
Quote from: empirestate on October 12, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
In that case, Florida ought to be rife with examples...but is it? I can't come up with a prominent central settlement in Florida that isn't a city.
Teabagger City The Villages.
Quote from: oscar on January 01, 2012, 07:50:29 AM
It's more complicated than that. Virginia has 95 counties and 39 independent cities (not part of any county). However, some of the counties include incorporated cities and other places, each subject to both its own local government and the government of its county.
Some of the counties include incorporated
towns and other places. The distinction between a town and a city is a big one under Virginia law.
I like how Disney has two unincorporated cities that are legally corporated. The Reedy Creek Improvement District is considered a form of government in Orange County on paper but as it is part of the Disney Corporation and all of its officials are paid their annual wages and salaries by Disney. Its land is still unincorporated Orange County, FL with two named areas Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. Both are under jurisdiction of Demmings the County Sheriff of Orange and the parts of Disney in Osceola County are under the sheriff of their county, hence when a rape was once committed at the All Star Resort, it was the Osceola Sheriff's Department that handled the case.
Quote from: jwolfer on October 12, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 12, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 12, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
Here in Florida the County takes care of most munincipal services. There is really not much incentive to incorporate. Most people would rather not have to pay city taxes
In that case, Florida ought to be rife with examples...but is it? I can't come up with a prominent central settlement in Florida that isn't a city. Actually, it seems there are a whole bunch of really small cities in Florida that wouldn't pass incorporation muster in most other states.
There are quite a few examples. Not large cities, but in the Jacksonville area the large suburbs of Middleburg and Ponte Vedra Beach are unincorporated( Although PVB does have a Municipal Service District for Garbage collection etc)
I meant to say, examples that would satisfy the OP about centralized, principal settlements being unincorporated. If incorporation were really that un-sought after in Florida, you'd expect even many of the stand-alone communities to have resisted the urge, but that doesn't seem to be the case. If a well-known place like St. Augustine turned out to be unincorporated, that would be a perfect example, but as far as I know that isn't the case in Florida.
But I don't think places like Middleburg and PVB fit the bill. Pretty much by definition, if you find yourself using the term "suburban" in connection with a place, it isn't what we're looking for.
Quote from: jwolfer on October 12, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
What is pretty common is unincorporated areas with a mailing address of a city. ( for example The town of Orange Park has like 8000 people but large parts of unincorporated Clay County have Orange Park mailing addresses.. probably 100K range of population. The county provides law enforcement, fire protection etc). Parts of Orange County are unicorporated but have Orlando mailing address.
Oh sure, that's something you see all over the nation. I didn't figure that would make a very interesting topic–along the lines of "Route Shields with numerals on them". :) So I limited the topic to a more unusual type of unincorporated place, those that look and act like what would usually be a municipal entity, but I admit I left the subject line too vague to convey that. Sorry again for that. :-/
Quote from: Doctor Whom on October 13, 2012, 10:54:27 AM
Quote from: oscar on January 01, 2012, 07:50:29 AM
It's more complicated than that. Virginia has 95 counties and 39 independent cities (not part of any county). However, some of the counties include incorporated cities and other places, each subject to both its own local government and the government of its county.
Some of the counties include incorporated towns and other places. The distinction between a town and a city is a big one under Virginia law.
Though that is unique to Virginia. Across the river in Maryland, the terms "city," "town" and "village" are somewhat interchangable (though like Virginia, Maryland does allow for (but does not mandate) that cities may be independent of an adjoining or surrounding county). There is only one independent city in Maryland, Baltimore.
How does Delaware work their communities? I mean, do they have all points of the state corporated like New Jersey does across the river? Or are they like Florida and Kansas where the county fills in where municipal jurisdictions end.
Also, I am curious to know how Milford, DE got into two counties? I have seen two state cities like Bristol and Texarkana and even DelMar further south, but never two county communities other than NYC divided up into 5 boroughs each its own county. Are there any other such instances where one city is located in two different counties?
Quote from: roadman65 on December 01, 2012, 09:17:41 PM
How does Delaware work their communities? I mean, do they have all points of the state corporated like New Jersey does across the river? Or are they like Florida and Kansas where the county fills in where municipal jurisdictions end.
Also, I am curious to know how Milford, DE got into two counties? I have seen two state cities like Bristol and Texarkana and even DelMar further south, but never two county communities other than NYC divided up into 5 boroughs each its own county. Are there any other such instances where one city is located in two different counties?
I don't think Delaware has incorporated all of its land; otherwise, the land on the east side of the Delaware would end up in that isolated community fragment thread. Also, that explains how Milford was able to annex across county lines. Finally, there are so many examples of communities crossing county lines, in fact I believe we've had threads on it, that we aren't going to get into that in this thread.
Quote from: Steve on December 01, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 01, 2012, 09:17:41 PM
How does Delaware work their communities? I mean, do they have all points of the state corporated like New Jersey does across the river? Or are they like Florida and Kansas where the county fills in where municipal jurisdictions end.
Also, I am curious to know how Milford, DE got into two counties? I have seen two state cities like Bristol and Texarkana and even DelMar further south, but never two county communities other than NYC divided up into 5 boroughs each its own county. Are there any other such instances where one city is located in two different counties?
I don't think Delaware has incorporated all of its land; otherwise, the land on the east side of the Delaware would end up in that isolated community fragment thread. Also, that explains how Milford was able to annex across county lines. Finally, there are so many examples of communities crossing county lines, in fact I believe we've had threads on it, that we aren't going to get into that in this thread.
Thank you. You gave me the answer I was looking for. No, I do not want to talk about it in detail.