Someone on m.t.r. was complaining that Rand McNally mislabels "US 20A" in New York as Alternate US 20. No link in Google Groups yet but the message ID is <2f61e750-d164-4bd6-9fdb-651e9a36c7ad@a40g2000vbu.googlegroups.com> for a possible later search if anyone is interested.
Yes, the route is signed as US 20A in New York, but isn't it officially know as Alternate US 20? Doesn't AASHTO designate these as alternate routes, rather than an actual US nnA route?
Might be worth it to compile a list of which states use banners vs. the "A" suffix.
Kentucky: "Alternate" banner
North Carolina: "A" suffix
Ohio: "A" suffix
Tennessee: "A" suffix
Virginia: "Alternate" banner
West Virginia: "ALT" banner
Alabama uses the Alternate Banner. I believe Mississippi uses "ALT"
I don't think New Jersey has Alternate routes any longer (unless on the County system). They are either Business (which are bannered) or were changed to other route numbers.
When they did have Alternate routes, I believe they were bannered.
Massachusetts has the suffix.
California has the banner.
North Carolina used the "A" suffix on signage on original Alternate routes, but has switched to Alternate banners on new routes and even new signage on older routes. It's a mixed bag now.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 04, 2012, 12:43:18 PM
Massachusetts has the suffix.
As I recall, all the current "suffixed" US routes in Massachusetts (1A, 20A for examples) are actually state routes (MA Rectangular shield), not US routes.
Arizona does the suffix
Washington does this
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2F97ALT%2F150to971%2F2.JPG&hash=a009762c87e8a4b118e2d262e3e69847cb34f424)
Wyoming does this
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F14a%2F37to310%2F1.jpg&hash=7082f399943964a3fdae8a53403d43affb44d08a)
I used to like the Florida business us routes. They were negative images of the colored shield with a ALT or BUS tab. Now it says ALternate in the standard shield... i dont have any pics
Quote from: roadman on January 04, 2012, 02:00:26 PM
As I recall, all the current "suffixed" US routes in Massachusetts (1A, 20A for examples) are actually state routes (MA Rectangular shield), not US routes.
there are alternates to state routes as well, like 32A being an alternate to 32. Also, in the late 30s, there was, for a brief time, a Mass US 5A.
New Hampshire has suffixes too, but hyphenated. NH route 3-A, for example.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 04, 2012, 03:56:34 PM
New Hampshire has suffixes too, but hyphenated. NH route 3-A, for example.
Except on the freeway signs it seems. New Hampshire also only likes to hyphenate the shield when the number is a single digit. If it has 2 or more digits, the suffix goes below the number like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6073%2F6107391803_999d106d48_z.jpg&hash=9bceecddc7191a0f5210af714c1f407edae3ced6)
Pennsylvania uses the "ALTERNATE" banner for the only such US aux route in the Commonwealth.
For U.S. Highways, as far as I know:
Alternate/Alt: AL, CA(?), DC, DE, FL, GA, KS, KY, MD, MS, NC (some), NJ, NV, OH (some), OK, PA, SC, TX, VA, VT, WA, WY
A: AZ, CT, ME, NC (some), NY, OH (some), RI, SD, TN, UT
No routes: AK, AR, CO, HI, IA, ID, IL, IN, LA, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, ND, NE, NH, NM, OR, WI, WV
Quote from: PAHighways on January 04, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
Pennsylvania uses the "ALTERNATE" banner for the only such US aux route in the Commonwealth.
I didn't think US 220 Alternate existed anymore.
It is still marked on the recent Centre County (http://tinyurl.com/7wa2mmp) and state (http://tinyurl.com/6nkgojc) maps.
Quote from: NE2 on January 04, 2012, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: PAHighways on January 04, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
Pennsylvania uses the "ALTERNATE" banner for the only such US aux route in the Commonwealth.
I didn't think US 220 Alternate existed anymore.
US 220 Alternate was re-signed in 2009 from I 80 south to Port Matilda.
Quote from: NE2 on January 04, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
For U.S. Highways, as far as I know:
Alternate: CA(?)
Don't know if the sign is still up, but from 1998:
http://gbcnet.com/ushighways/us_pix/50_pics/ALT_50/alt_50_east_white_pole_sign.jpg
Quote from: NE2 on January 04, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
No routes: ID, MO,
some historic examples:
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/ID/ID19490101i1.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MO/MO19360662i1.jpg)
The highway from Sapulpa (really west Tulsa) to Beggs is signed alternately as US 75A, OK 75A, and "ALT" US 75. I'm not sure if there are any "ALTERNATE" banners on the highway or not.
While the shields in Utah nowadays shows US-89A, on maps, and historically, it is listed as "US 89 Alternate." I don't exactly know how US-89A was labeled before the UT-11 era, but it seemed to be labeled as "Alt. US-89." Also, when UT-11 was around, the "A" on Utah's US-89A shields was considerably smaller, suggesting it as "US-89 Alternate."
As for Arizona, as far as I can remember, it's always been labeled as US-89A, though I bet in its first few years (when cutouts were used, from 1960-1975ish), it was labeled Alt. US-89.
I'm not sure if it's considered an Alternate, but South Dakota has US 16A
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2721%2F4185697003_e334df2de2_z_d.jpg&hash=6a0056e9b4c9e4568ee3ff76d979aa1db55babbf)
Quote from: bugo on January 04, 2012, 06:53:36 PM
The highway from Sapulpa (really west Tulsa) to Beggs is signed alternately as US 75A, OK 75A, and "ALT" US 75. I'm not sure if there are any "ALTERNATE" banners on the highway or not.
There used be one near Beggs, but I can't find it in my photos. Guess I'll have to personally investigate.
As Jake mentioned, Arkansas has no Alternates. If they did, they would likely be "Alternate US XX A" or "US xx A" (likely alternating between the two).
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2012, 07:02:26 PM
As Jake mentioned, Arkansas has no Alternates. If they did, they would likely be "Alternate US XX A" or "US xx A" (likely alternating between the two).
There are actually some routes in Arkansas that show up on AHTD maps as "route XX, section YYA." These routes are business routes that have 2 different business routes within one section. They are signed as business routes. There was a US 79A that was shown on AHTD maps a few years ago, but I am guessing it was also signed as US 79B.
Quote from: Rover_0 on January 04, 2012, 06:53:44 PM
As for Arizona, as far as I can remember, it's always been labeled as US-89A, though I bet in its first few years (when cutouts were used, from 1960-1975ish), it was labeled Alt. US-89.
cutouts were used as late as 1975? I had been under the impression that the cutouts went away by 1961. at least, no shield I've seen identified with a date marking has been a cutout, and those go back as far as 1962. it is the 1961 MUTCD that introduced the "black square" so I do not believe this to be a coincidence.
when was the first US-89A (now AZ-89A) first signed? I could swear my 1942 RMN shows it.
Some other A's for you
www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=CT19570442
www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=CT19660442
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2Fmeus1a.jpg&hash=714d2d6a7db8ac68cafecf60ede80f39864ea593)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2Fmass20a.jpg&hash=27abadef6a298069d06d5a65ab8cd4b4298a3ce3)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2Fnh1a.jpg&hash=34eb873ee64dab9547a6d02ff33febdea0f8b261)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2Fwyous14a.jpg&hash=557b1283407242668a741f9971799902284c87e1)
And Ohio uses '20A' for the US route
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FBlasts%2520from%2520the%2520Past%2FOHUS20A.jpg&hash=2ee43a26c396529628680a588305b454bb3b6913)
Quote from: dfilpus on January 04, 2012, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 04, 2012, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: PAHighways on January 04, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
Pennsylvania uses the "ALTERNATE" banner for the only such US aux route in the Commonwealth.
I didn't think US 220 Alternate existed anymore.
US 220 Alternate was re-signed in 2009 from I 80 south to Port Matilda.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2010_NY_Day_3%2FImages%2F168.jpg&hash=d5b2f25478f6d2510133a8af88036ff2bca3ccf3)
Fall 2010...
QuoteInsert Quote
Quote from: NE2 on Today at 05:29:36 PM
QuoteFor U.S. Highways, as far as I know:
Alternate: CA(?)
Don't know if the sign is still up, but from 1998:
I drove U.S. 50 from Sacramento to Lake Tahoe in late October and no alternate was posted. It's my understanding that the pictured alternate was posted as a construction alternate during work on the mountainous segment of 50 (which raises the question why construction orange signage wasn't used), and that it was never designated as a state highway by the Legislature.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on January 04, 2012, 11:06:55 PM
I drove U.S. 50 from Sacramento to Lake Tahoe in late October and no alternate was posted. It's my understanding that the pictured alternate was posted as a construction alternate during work on the mountainous segment of 50 (which raises the question why construction orange signage wasn't used), and that it was never designated as a state highway by the Legislature.
According to Daniel Faigin's California Highways site, Alt US 50 does exist but is signed only when US 50 is closed long-term (major mudslides or washouts)...
Quote from: cahighways.org at http://cahighways.org/049-056.html#050Alternate US 50 is signed along a route consisting of county milage and portions of Route 88 and Route 89. It runs from US 50 near Pollock Pines, then S and E on Sly Park Road and Mormon Emigrant Trail, including a 20 mi segment of National Forest Highway 5. It joins Route 89 at Picketts Junction, continuing until the north Route 89 junction. From there it follows Route 89 until it rejoins US 50 at the foot of Meyers Grade.
In the portion of the route not cosigned with existing state milage, there are temporary postmiles that do not fit state standards. The route is a detour routing for those times when US 50 is closed. This happens frequently enough that it was felt to be appropriate to sign the route as Alternate US 50.
The mile markers were put in after the 1997/1998 winter season for ease of managing the snow removal operations. During the 1997/1998 winter, when the large slides closed US 50 and snow removal operations were made all season long to the Trail, the lack of markers made control of operations difficult. The markers were placed the following spring/summer. Despite the choice of labels, those portions of Alternate US 50 not already in the state highway system (i.e., Route 88 and Route 89) have not been added to the state highway system; they are county or forest roads maintained by the appropriate jurisdictions. In particular, Sly Park Rd. and Mormon Emigrant Trail are El Dorado County roads and are not state highway. Mormon Emigrant Trail was repaved for use as the detour as a part of the contract to repair US 50. There are Alternate US 50 postmiles on Mormon Emigrant Trail; those are used by CHP and Caltrans as reference when the road is in use as Alternate US 50. There are also Alternate US 50 shields posted along the route, and some signs showing distance to control cities, coupled with an Alternate US 50 sign package (i.e. shields). These are covered when not in use.
Kansas seems to be a mixed bag. U.S. 69 Alternate uses the ALT banner. I remember when there was a U.S. 75 Alternate through Topeka that it was also ALT. But when U.S. 50 Alternate existed in Garden City, it was "Alternate."
Nevada uses the "ALT" banner (not the longer "Alternate") on shield assemblies and any guide signs featuring a shield.
However, street name signs and smaller guide signs where the route is written in text will nearly always say "US nnA". This nomenclature is also used on milepost panels and in NDOT logs describing the alternate highways.
I am aware of only two exceptions to this rule: US 95 Alt has trailblazer/confirming assemblies in two separate places that use a 3-digit width shield carrying "95A" legend and no ALT banner--one is NB at its beginning in Schurz, the other NB at a junction in Yerington.
Quote from: bugo on January 04, 2012, 07:05:26 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2012, 07:02:26 PM
As Jake mentioned, Arkansas has no Alternates. If they did, they would likely be "Alternate US XX A" or "US xx A" (likely alternating between the two).
There are actually some routes in Arkansas that show up on AHTD maps as "route XX, section YYA." These routes are business routes that have 2 different business routes within one section. They are signed as business routes. There was a US 79A that was shown on AHTD maps a few years ago, but I am guessing it was also signed as US 79B.
Considering that Arkansas uses suffixes on their shields for Business Routes (e.g. 71B, Fayetteville) and Spur Routes (e.g. 282S, Mountainburg), one would assume they would also use suffixes on Alternate Routes as well.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2012, 11:21:40 AM
Someone on m.t.r. was complaining that Rand McNally mislabels "US 20A" in New York as Alternate US 20. No link in Google Groups yet but the message ID is <2f61e750-d164-4bd6-9fdb-651e9a36c7ad@a40g2000vbu.googlegroups.com> for a possible later search if anyone is interested.
Yes, the route is signed as US 20A in New York, but isn't it officially know as Alternate US 20? Doesn't AASHTO designate these as alternate routes, rather than an actual US nnA route?
As I mentioned also in m.t.r., depends what you mean by "officially". AASHTO might say it's ALT US 20 (and they do), but everything official I've seen from NYSDOT calls it US 20A.
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2012, 04:59:14 AM
I am aware of only two exceptions to this rule: US 95 Alt has trailblazer/confirming assemblies in two separate places that use a 3-digit width shield carrying "95A" legend and no ALT banner--one is NB at its beginning in Schurz, the other NB at a junction in Yerington.
I've never noticed that. but then again the last time I was on 95A was in 2005. could you please upload a picture here?
here's a historic photo that shows that, back in the day, Nevada was Idaho-style
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19500401i1.jpg)
I have also seen, but do not have a photo offhand, of a single-piece 24x30 inch white sign, with 95 in an outline shield, above which is ALTERNATE, similar to Florida but spelled out. that sign, I think, is Nevada's attempt at a 1948 specification junction marker.
Quote from: dfilpus on January 04, 2012, 05:51:53 PMUS 220 Alternate was re-signed in 2009 from I 80 south to Port Matilda.
The route has been on marked on every state map since the 2003 edition.
It was extended southwest then northwest to Exit 61 in Port Matilda that year to serve as an emergency route if 99 has to be closed on Skytop due to weather.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 05, 2012, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2012, 04:59:14 AM
I am aware of only two exceptions to this rule: US 95 Alt has trailblazer/confirming assemblies in two separate places that use a 3-digit width shield carrying "95A" legend and no ALT banner--one is NB at its beginning in Schurz, the other NB at a junction in Yerington.
I've never noticed that. but then again the last time I was on 95A was in 2005. could you please upload a picture here?
Google Street View is the best I can do for now. Which is not great, cause the Street View car was going the other way...
US 95A northbound at its beginning in Schurz (May 2009) (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.940418,-118.81075&spn=0.00155,0.00284&hnear=Reno,+Washoe,+Nevada&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=38.940407,-118.810873&panoid=9i47LSpCZR4mC1fU0aYtgQ&cbp=12,311.67,,0,0.89) -- Interestingly, the June 2007 shot from the SB to NB 'ramp' appears to have the standard installation.
US 95A northbound in Yerington just north of SR 339 jct (May 2009) (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.994898,-119.18179&spn=0.006229,0.011362&hnear=Reno,+Washoe,+Nevada&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=38.994803,-119.181805&panoid=ULEgJCn_GbhKMJpqWwjU1w&cbp=12,35.82,,1,0.51)
Quote
I have also seen, but do not have a photo offhand, of a single-piece 24x30 inch white sign, with 95 in an outline shield, above which is ALTERNATE, similar to Florida but spelled out. that sign, I think, is Nevada's attempt at a 1948 specification junction marker.
Like in the field? Recently? I am intrigued...
Quote from: roadfro on January 06, 2012, 03:12:16 AM
Google Street View is the best I can do for now. Which is not great, cause the Street View car was going the other way...
thanks! enough to illustrate the point. full-height letter A, which I believe is consistent with 1970 spec (as is the route marker shape)
Quote
Like in the field? Recently? I am intrigued...
lamentably, no. in someone's collection. I don't think there are even any '61 spec US shields left in Nevada; never mind '48 spec.
(okay, fine, the two shields scraped off the Last Button Copy Sign In the State, on the Las Vegas Strip, are technically 1948 spec.)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19620911i1.jpg)