I do not know if any one ever started this thread or not, but we seem to have many roads that closely follow highways. Some are next to each other like NJ 27 in Colonia, NJ, yet the same rail line runs pretty close to most of NJ 27's route from New Brunswick to Newark. I am looking at directly next to the highway at with no businesses in between and both rights of ways touching one another for many or a few miles.
I will start out by posting I-195 in Richmond, VA with the CSX rail line in its median for most of its length. Also part of VA 76 continues part of what I-195 started before crossing the James River.
You're gonna quickly exhaust people with this topic because almost all of the old highways across the West followed railroads.
That is S.O.P. throughout much of the midwest - in many cases, the road was built to follow the railroad, which in turn was built on the easiest routing.
Mike
Yes, roads evolved from informal trails alongside railroads. The Lincoln Highway from Salt Lake west was one of the exceptions, since going across the salt flats was slightly beyond the road technology of the time.
T\
Quote from: NE2 on January 28, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Yes, roads evolved from informal trails alongside railroads. The Lincoln Highway from Salt Lake west was one of the exceptions, since going across the salt flats was slightly beyond the road technology of the time.
Yeah how true. Even towns were erected cause of the railroads. Hershey, PA for example was because of not only dairy farms in that region for the milk to manufacture the chocalate, but cause of the pre existing railroad that was there. It allowed Milton Hershey to build his plant and needed a place for workers to dwell that ended up as the "Sweetest Place on Earth."
It is interesting to know, though, where many are and peoples opinion and reaction to places. Not all of us have gotten the luxury to move around the country like we would like.
In rural areas (especially flat rural areas) it's a matter of following the easiest and most logical path, so naturally things run parallel.
But there can be other considerations. For instance, how I-95 runs directly parallel to the northeast corridor a lot in New York and Connecticut... not so much a matter of easiest path, but in this case a matter of that it's easier and less disruptive to build a highway through a developed area if you expand an existing ROW rather than carving out a completely new one. And clustering things that people don't want to live next to together puts them in fewer people's backyards.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 28, 2012, 08:57:58 PM
In rural areas (especially flat rural areas) it's a matter of following the easiest and most logical path, so naturally things run parallel.
But there can be other considerations. For instance, how I-95 runs directly parallel to the northeast corridor a lot in New York and Connecticut... not so much a matter of easiest path, but in this case a matter of that it's easier and less disruptive to build a highway through a developed area if you expand an existing ROW rather than carving out a completely new one. And clustering things that people don't want to live next to together puts them in fewer people's backyards.
AKA - 'the easiest path'
:nod:
Mike
As others have already said, many original alignments (such as much of US 66) did follow a "path of least resistance" . In later years, with improved road building technology this has changed. But I think someone already said that, too.
^ What everybody else said above. :ded:
How 'bout highways that were built over former railroad grades?
In Dallas, there are three that I know of.
In the cases of US 75 Central Expy and the Dallas North Tollway, railroads that were in use were removed so that their right-of-ways could be used for the highways.
In the case of SH 114, much of the highway was built over an old railroad grade that never had tracks laid on it because the railroad company went bankrupt before completing the line.
Almost the entire Massachusetts Turnpike ROW was purchased from the now-defunct Boston & Albany Railroad, and the portion between the I-95 and I-93 interchanges still runs next to those tracks, which are now part of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority commuter rail lines.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 28, 2012, 10:29:53 PM
How 'bout highways that were built over former railroad grades?
* * *
There are roads, many of them 4WD, through the Rockies that are originally narrow-gauge railroad grades. The one nearest to me is the Phantom Canyon Road, which for a time from the 1930s to the 1950s was designated as part of CO-67. It is along a railroad grade from Florence on the Arkansas River to Victor, nearly 10,000 feet in elevation, in a major gold mining area (that's almost a 5000 foot elevation difference in maybe 30 miles). This rail line only existed for about 20 years, from the 1890s to the 1910s. The road in many areas is one vehicle wide, and one bridge is part of the original rail line. This road is actually navigable by most vehicles, though you have to be prepared to stop at a wide spot or even back up to one.
So, trivia quiz, how many know the rule of the road regarding vehicles that meet on a one-lane mountain road section. Who by right backs up? Hint: not the guy with the biggest car.
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 28, 2012, 10:48:48 PM
Almost the entire Massachusetts Turnpike ROW was purchased from the now-defunct Boston & Albany Railroad, and the portion between the I-95 and I-93 interchanges still runs next to those tracks, which are now part of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority commuter rail lines.
What the crap? The old Boston and Albany is the CSX line from Boston to (duh) Albany. The two are nowhere near each other outside 128.
(You may be thinking of the never-finished Southern New England Railway, but that's also unrelated to the Masspike, except that its grading can be seen in at least one place.)
I would think the gazillion "Railroad Ave" streets would count. ;-)
Quote from: Brian556 on January 28, 2012, 10:29:53 PM
How 'bout highways that were built over former railroad grades?
I know of one that was realigned onto part of an old railroad grade. Back when Florida State Road 54 was being widened between Pasco CR 1 and US 41, a short segment between the former Tampa Bay Executive Airport and Pasco CR 587(Gunn Highway) was relocated to the former Silver Springs, Ocala and Gulf Railroad line. Suffolk County built County Road 81 on a short section of the former LIRR Sag Harbor Branch, and
tried to build Suffolk County Road 91 on the Manorville Branch.
I believe I remember US 13 in Virginia along the Delmarva Peninsula having a railroad right next to it for a while.
NJ 129 was built on a former railroad ROW, as was NM 485.
Quote from: Upside down frog in a triangle on January 29, 2012, 12:46:55 PM
NJ 129 was built on a former railroad ROW, as was NM 485.
NJ 129 is on the former Delaware and Raritan Canal. The railroad built on the towpath is now the River Line light rail.
This thread would be 1000 pages long if we tried to name every road that follows a railroad. I will, however give one fairly unique example: a stretch of OK 51/US 64/Broken Arrow Expressway in Tulsa was built along both sides of a railroad in between I-44 and I-444, and today the rail line runs down the median.
A short section of the Neillsville, WI US 10 bypass was built on grade of the former CNW Wausau-Merrillon line and most of the US 53 Solon Springs, WI bypass was built on the former SOO Superior Sub, not long after Wisconsin Central (now CN) combined it with their then just-purchased CNW Superior Sub. The line is now CN's western Canada-Chicago mainline. Note that a bit farther south of Solon Springs, where the highway has a wide spread median the southbound side is also on that same former railroad grade.
Also, a section of I-94 (East-West Freeway) in the area of 27th St in Milwaukee, WI was built on the grade of an abandoned interurban/light rail line.
Mike
The MoPac Expressway in Austin straddes ex-Missouri Pacific Railroad tracks. The Katy Freeway goes from Houston to Katy, named for the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad (MKT), and the recent expansion used the ex-MKT right-of-way.
US 29 running North from Danville VA, to at least Alta Vista parallels a NS line.
Much of the new routing of US 60 in Morehead, Ky., is built on the old C&O rail line bed that ran between Lexington and Ashland.
The KY 77 Nada Tunnel in the Red River Gorge is an old narrow-gauge railroad tunnel.
Sherman Cahal can provide more information on these two examples, but I think there are roads using old railroad bridges in Floyd County off US 23 and in Carter County off KY 7.
There are a couple of counties that have local roads called "Old Railroad Grade Road/Lane" and that would appear to be fairly obvious.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 28, 2012, 10:29:53 PM
How 'bout highways that were built over former railroad grades?
In Dallas, there are three that I know of.
In the cases of US 75 Central Expy and the Dallas North Tollway, railroads that were in use were removed so that their right-of-ways could be used for the highways.
In the case of SH 114, much of the highway was built over an old railroad grade that never had tracks laid on it because the railroad company went bankrupt before completing the line.
Here in Houston the Westpark Tollway sits right in the narrow ROW where a railroad line used to run, which explains the sometimes odd way the tollway runs (in some places the eastbound side elevates while the westbound side remains at grade, it is a super-3 from US 59 to its eastern end at Post Oak Blvd.
As for running parallel, the Hardy Toll Road has a railroad line running through the median of it for a fairly long stretch.
If they ever build the Hempstead Tollway along US 290, I imagine it will look like either Westpark or Hardy.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 28, 2012, 10:29:53 PMHow 'bout highways that were built over former railroad grades?
The original section of Pennsylvania Turnpike (http://www.pahighways.com/toll/PATurnpike.html) utilizes a ROW that William H. Vanderbilt intended to be a Pittsburgh-Harrisburg rail line, and part of which was used by the Pittsburgh, Westmoreland, and Somerset short line railroad.
US 23's bypass of Delaware, Ohio follows an old railroad right-of-way for several miles.
In Columbus;
I-670 from the Convention Center out to 5th Ave was railroad till the late 1960s.
I-71 from Hudson St. to Eleventh Ave was a former railroad right-of-way.
Quote from: bugo on January 29, 2012, 01:02:41 PM
one fairly unique example: a stretch of OK 51/US 64/Broken Arrow Expressway in Tulsa was built along both sides of a railroad in between I-44 and I-444, and today the rail line runs down the median.
Even more unique example: part of A-20 in Montreal runs on either side of an active rail line... with the carriageways flipped (i.e., in both directions you're driving with the tracks to your right)
Quote from: NE2 on January 28, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 28, 2012, 10:48:48 PM
Almost the entire Massachusetts Turnpike ROW was purchased from the now-defunct Boston & Albany Railroad, and the portion between the I-95 and I-93 interchanges still runs next to those tracks, which are now part of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority commuter rail lines.
What the crap? The old Boston and Albany is the CSX line from Boston to (duh) Albany. The two are nowhere near each other outside 128.
(You may be thinking of the never-finished Southern New England Railway, but that's also unrelated to the Masspike, except that its grading can be seen in at least one place.)
Maybe he was referring to the Hampden Railroad, whose right-of-way was used for a few miles of the Springfield Bypass that itself was used for the Mass Pike according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Turnpike#History
The BA in Tulsa has a railroad running down the middle for a few miles. I read on someone's highway page that the railroad isn't in use, but I have personally driven next to a moving train on the highway.
I used to live right near the CSX tracks next to US 17( Roosevelt Blvd) in Jacksonville. I used to like seeing the Amtrack AutoTrain going by
I don't think these could be more parallel to the streets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUXmEDZMhM (9th St, Erie PA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7UpEDD2hA4 (Walker St, Watsonville CA)
Yes, this is a left turn lane on the second one.
I think that the better subject for a thread in here is 'Street running', like with the mainline railroad that uses the city street that passes though Jack London Square in Oakland, CA.
In Wisconsin, there is street trackage for a few blocks on CN's ex CNW Green Bay-Marinette line in Oconto, WI. CN's ex WC western Canada-Chicago mainline also uses the median of Broad St on two separate sections in Oshkosh, WI. This section of track in Oshkosh was also originally a section of a CNW line.
Mike
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on January 31, 2012, 08:40:07 PM
I don't think these could be more parallel to the streets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUXmEDZMhM (9th St, Erie PA)
The one in Erie (actually 19th Street) was removed in 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie,_Pennsylvania
QuoteThe mainline of the Norfolk Southern Railway, originally built by the Nickel Plate Railroad, also travels through Erie. At one time Norfolk Southern trains ran down the middle of 19th Street, but were removed in 2002.
It's been noted that I-95 follows the Northeast Corridor in New York and Connecticut. It also closely follows the Corridor as it passes through northeast Philadelphia and lower Bucks County, Pennsylvania, from just north of Exit 27 to just north of Exit 37.
When it was constructed in 1958, the PA 309 Fort Washington Expressway was built on the alignment and ROW of the former Pennsylvania Railroad Fort Washington Branch (abandoned in 1954) between Willow Grove Avenue and Valley Green Road.
When US 202 Section 400 (Swedesford Road to I-76 Schuylkill Expressway) was widened, reconstructed, and reconfigured in 2003, a new multi-lane ramp was created for direct travel from US 202 NB and US 422 EB to I-76 EB. This ramp used the alignment and ROW of the former Philadelphia & Chester Valley RR (later the PRR Chester Valley Branch, abandoned in 1989). It also effectively enclosed an office park within the expanded I-76/US 202 interchange.
One Mr. Kitsko has a good page on his PAHighways site here: < www.pahighways.com/us/US202.html > The page includes photos of Section 400 supplied by me when I worked at PennDOT. In some of the aerial photos, the ramp may be seen under construction. In the diagram, the ramp is seen as the long horizontal red line across the bottom.
From LA 433 in Slidell to LA 41 in Pearl River, US 11 parallels a railroad pretty close, diverting from the parallel only to overcross it. It leaves the parallel for good in LA when it overcrosses it to join its concurrency with I-59.
From just north of Hammond to the LA/MS state line (if not farther,) US 51 does the same.
LA 21/Business US 190's segment in Downtown Covington is one block over from Gibson Street, which used to have a railroad running down the middle. That rail line was removed over the 90's and early 2000's to make way for Covington's Tammany Trace section.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 31, 2012, 09:31:07 PM
I think that the better subject for a thread in here is 'Street running', like with the mainline railroad that uses the city street that passes though Jack London Square in Oakland, CA.
In Wisconsin, there is street trackage for a few blocks on CN's ex CNW Green Bay-Marinette line in Oconto, WI. CN's ex WC western Canada-Chicago mainline also uses the median of Broad St on two separate sections in Oshkosh, WI. This section of track in Oshkosh was also originally a section of a CNW line.
Mike
Go to railpictures.net and search for "street running" and those examples, plus other famous ones like the CSX thru LaGrange, KY and the South Shore line thru Michigan City, IN will pop up in pix.
In Delaware, I-495 runs next to the Northeast Corridor, similarly to I-95 in Philadelphia. Along both the driver can often be swiftly overtaken by Amtrak Acela trains. Makes you feel slow.
When I was a teen, one could still see passenger trains on the Corridor (next to I-95; I-495 didn't exist yet) pulled by the famed Raymond Loewy-designed GG1, in service incredibly from 1935 to 1983. To watch one pace your vehicle was always a treat.
BTW, I-195 in Richmond (noted by the OP) is very interesting. I've ridden Amtrak up the median twice. It's quite a head-turner having a freeway full of vehicles running on both sides of the rail car.
US 301 in VA and NC parallels the CSX mainline which was the old Atlantic Coastline double track main in which the daily Tropacana juice trains still travel from Florida to New Jersey.
US 90 parallels a railroad throughout Mississippi. You can say the same about US 49 from Jackson to Gulfport (though I'm not sure if the railroad is in use anymore), US 51 and US 80 when it isn't concurrent with I-20 (all in MS).
Quote from: ap70621 on January 29, 2012, 08:48:42 AM
I believe I remember US 13 in Virginia along the Delmarva Peninsula having a railroad right next to it for a while.
It still does from what I remember the last time I was there.
I forgot about this one living in New Jersey for decades, I should have known this right away. NJ 28 follows the Raritan Valley NJ Transit Line for miles between Dunnellen and Elizabeth. From Dunnellon to its western terminus in Bridgewater it even runs within a few miles of the line as well. Actually NJ 28 in its entirety follows near or close to this defunct CNJ Railroad mainline that once carried freights in addition to passenger trains since the day that all NE US railroads went belly up in the Vietnam War era.
US 460 parallels a railroad from near Suffolk to Petersburg, then picks up following that same railroad to at least Farmville.
If I'm not mistaken, there is a railroad that runs closely with I-40 and US 70 through NE Arkansas.
There is also a railroad that follows closely with I-55 in Mississippi. I remember over 20 years picking up a relative at an Amtrak station in Durant (which is off I-55). The Amtrak route has been since rerouted to go through Yazoo City and Greenwood.
Md. 260 in Anne Arundel and Calvert Counties runs on the bed of the former Chesapeake Beach Railroad, which ran between Seat Pleasant (near the D.C. border) and the Chesapeake Bay.
Most of Md. 704 in Prince George's County runs on the bed of the former Washington, Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railway.
Quote from: qguy on February 06, 2012, 05:40:42 PMBTW, I-195 in Richmond (noted by the OP) is very interesting. I've ridden Amtrak up the median twice. It's quite a head-turner having a freeway full of vehicles running on both sides of the rail car.
Oh, I've done that myself. You mentioned the Northeast Corridor which contains Acela speeding by I-495 in Delaware, but on the opposite end of that spectrum, there's US 17 in Florida which runs parallel to a CSX line between Palatka and Green Cove Springs. This line also serves a lot of Amtrak Silver Service line trains, but whether it's freight or passenger trains, they all run slow as hell. You can drive faster on US 17, which is legally 60 MPH. If there was a grade crossing between US 17 and the tracks(besides at Palatka Union Station, of course), you could very easily beat any train.
I-10 in Texas out towards Plateau, Michigan Flat and Boracho Station has a rail line running parallel a distance to the north. One of those exits on Street View has a train on it.