Inspired by these two threads:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5523.25
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6143.0
Basically, the opposite of Maryland's I-595: routes that are signed Interstates with little indication otherwise, BUT may not be in FHWA route definitions - regardless of local usage, full signage with the red/white/blue shield, etc. (Wanted to put this in its own topic as opposed to hidden in the first link)
The examples I've seen so far:
- Interstate 80 in San Francisco between US 101 and the Bay Bridge, which was officially part of the route from 1956 to 1968, but which was removed then with the FHWA definition changing to start at the then-existing I-480 interchange (now the west landing of the Bay Bridge). I've always wondered if this was a clerical error of some sort in trying to remove the cancelled Western Freeway from the books, or an intentional milage decision in order to add a few more miles to the 1968-era I-105 (today's Century Freeway) which garnered much of its allotted miles from cancelled routes.
This road has always been signed as I-80 in both directions since the Interstate era began, although much of it was constructed as US 40 and US 50 prior to the Interstate system's existence.
- Interstate 110 on the Harbor Freeway in Los Angeles between the Four-Level Interchange/US 101 and the Santa Monica Freeway/I-10.
This one is a special case, dating back to the early-80s signage of the Harbor Freeway as an interstate. South of I-10, both directions are given I-110 signs, and this is indisputable.
North of I-10, on the one section that allows trucks before the Arroyo Seco Parkway begins, it's murkier:
except for one or two stray 1980s signs along a collector/distributor setup, all reassurance markers on the large green signs are for I-110, some dating back to the button-copy era (not sure when though) and some of the retroreflective variety.
Both the old, now-replaced button copy and the current retroreflective signage for the ramps from 101 (both directions) to 110 south list it as I-110.
Northbound on the Harbor Freeway, the signage is almost exclusively for State Route 110 however.
- I-495 between the Lincoln Tunnel and I-678 in New York City, as mentioned in the second link above.
- I-676 along the Ben Franklin Bridge, as noted in the first linked thread
- I-695 in southeastern Baltimore, and the south segment of I-895 between I-695 and I-95
Any other examples of this odd phenomenon?
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 02:48:15 AM
- Interstate 80 in San Francisco between US 101 and the Bay Bridge, which was officially part of the route from 1956 to 1968, but which was removed then with the FHWA definition changing to start at the then-existing I-480 interchange (now the west landing of the Bay Bridge). I've always wondered if this was a clerical error of some sort in trying to remove the cancelled Western Freeway from the books, or an intentional milage decision in order to add a few more miles to the 1968-era I-105 (today's Century Freeway) which garnered much of its allotted miles from cancelled routes.
I would guess that they wanted to keep I-80 from having a hanging end in the system.
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 02:48:15 AM
- I-676 along the Ben Franklin Bridge, as noted in the first linked thread
I'm not sure about this one - the NHS maps show that it is an Interstate.
I believe the dual-signed "I-95/I-495" portion of the Capital Beltway is officially just I-95 and that the "495" is posted solely as a convenience for motorists who found it confusing to have a split number on a beltway.
Don't know if this counts for this thread since it's still signed as an Interstate–but since the signs carry a second number that technically doesn't apply, I figured it belonged on the list.
In the case of I-495 in NY it looks like an error on the map. Notice that it's marked as an interstate from Manhattan to I-278, has a gap, then becomes an interstate again at I-678. Clearly an error in the map.
Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2012, 05:10:34 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 02:48:15 AM
- Interstate 80 in San Francisco between US 101 and the Bay Bridge, which was officially part of the route from 1956 to 1968, but which was removed then with the FHWA definition changing to start at the then-existing I-480 interchange (now the west landing of the Bay Bridge). I've always wondered if this was a clerical error of some sort in trying to remove the cancelled Western Freeway from the books, or an intentional milage decision in order to add a few more miles to the 1968-era I-105 (today's Century Freeway) which garnered much of its allotted miles from cancelled routes.
I would guess that they wanted to keep I-80 from having a hanging end in the system.
Hmm. The planned west end for pre-1968 I-80 was at the Route 1 freeway in Golden Gate Park that was never constructed - which at the time, was to also be I-280. (Would've been only case of a 2di ending at its own 3di)
Even back then I can think of one "hanging end" non-Interstate/non-border 2di terminus in California, that being I-10's end at Route 1 in Santa Monica. Today there's also I-8 west of I-5 in San Diego (which was added shortly after the I-80 changes). And outside of California there are other examples galore (I-27 and I-37 in Texas, I-35 in Minnesota, I-90 recently in Boston, I-26 in Charleston, I-40 in Wilmington) so it's become more common over time.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2012, 07:49:46 AM
I believe the dual-signed "I-95/I-495" portion of the Capital Beltway is officially just I-95 and that the "495" is posted solely as a convenience for motorists who found it confusing to have a split number on a beltway.
Don't know if this counts for this thread since it's still signed as an Interstate–but since the signs carry a second number that technically doesn't apply, I figured it belonged on the list.
This would also be the case for I-29 in downtown Kansas City too, right?
Is the Chicago Skyway still posted as "To I-90" and is it actually part of the interstate system?
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 12:14:35 PM
Hmm. The planned west end for pre-1968 I-80 was at the Route 1 freeway in Golden Gate Park that was never constructed - which at the time, was to also be I-280. (Would've been only case of a 2di ending at its own 3di)
You're forgetting I-64's ending in the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area.
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 12:14:35 PM
....
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2012, 07:49:46 AM
I believe the dual-signed "I-95/I-495" portion of the Capital Beltway is officially just I-95 and that the "495" is posted solely as a convenience for motorists who found it confusing to have a split number on a beltway.
Don't know if this counts for this thread since it's still signed as an Interstate–but since the signs carry a second number that technically doesn't apply, I figured it belonged on the list.
This would also be the case for I-29 in downtown Kansas City too, right?
I have no idea.
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 13, 2012, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 12:14:35 PM
Hmm. The planned west end for pre-1968 I-80 was at the Route 1 freeway in Golden Gate Park that was never constructed - which at the time, was to also be I-280. (Would've been only case of a 2di ending at its own 3di)
You're forgetting I-64's ending in the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area.
Now that I look at the Yellow Book map of the Norfolk area, this seems like it was originally proposed around the same time 80 ending at 280 was:
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/norfolk.jpg
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on February 13, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
Is the Chicago Skyway still posted as "To I-90" and is it actually part of the interstate system?
Not sure about assurance markers, but the on-ramps are signed "TO I-90". Internally, it is part of the system.
Quote from: deanej on February 13, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
In the case of I-495 in NY it looks like an error on the map. Notice that it's marked as an interstate from Manhattan to I-278, has a gap, then becomes an interstate again at I-678. Clearly an error in the map.
Except that the NYSDOT log and FHWA log mileage agree with it. It may be an error but it runs deeper than one map.
Does the section of signed Interstate 10 on former US 60/70/99 (San Bernardino Freeway between US 101 and I-5) in east Los Angeles count? It's essentially a giant ramp from 10 to 101 north/101 to 10 east (where 10 continues southwest along Interstate 5 to the Santa Monica Freeway) but I know the USGS maps used to label that as "State Route 10".
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 08:01:26 PM
Does the section of signed Interstate 10 on former US 60/70/99 (San Bernardino Freeway between US 101 and I-5) in east Los Angeles count? It's essentially a giant ramp from 10 to 101 north/101 to 10 east (where 10 continues southwest along Interstate 5 to the Santa Monica Freeway) but I know the USGS maps used to label that as "State Route 10".
Is it signed with reassurance, or simply as an implied 'to'?
Quote from: TheStranger on February 13, 2012, 08:01:26 PM
Does the section of signed Interstate 10 on former US 60/70/99 (San Bernardino Freeway between US 101 and I-5) in east Los Angeles count? It's essentially a giant ramp from 10 to 101 north/101 to 10 east (where 10 continues southwest along Interstate 5 to the Santa Monica Freeway) but I know the USGS maps used to label that as "State Route 10".
Out of town and using a clunky laptop (excuse du jour) so I won't break off to check California statutes or Daniel Faigin's site - but isn't that segment of Route 10 defined as beginning at 101? Therefore it would be State 10 even if it isn't marked as such.
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on February 13, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
Is the Chicago Skyway still posted as "To I-90" and is it actually part of the interstate system?
The City of Chicago believes it never applied for interstate status on the Skyway. FHWA says otherwise.
However, I-96/275 is just I-96 according to the FHWA. MDOT, and the motoring public, believe and sign it otherwise.
I do believe I-695 in New York also fits this description.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2012, 10:06:35 PM
I do believe I-695 in New York also fits this description.
It's likely on FHWA's records as a spur of I-295 (formerly a spur of I-78).
Not an interstate route, but OK has probably the most brazen defiance of FHWA/AASHTO out there in US 377. Denied for the extension six times, after the most recent attempt, they just said "fuck it" and signed it anyway. None of US 377 between Madill and Stroud is AASHTO-approved. (They kept OK 99 on this portion of 377, probably just in case AASHTO decided to do something about the 377 extension.)
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2012, 10:06:35 PM
I do believe I-695 in New York also fits this description.
Not true. Back in 2008, it officially became I-695 per the FHWA and AASHTO.
EDIT: Here's the file (http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/SM%202008%20I-695%20NY.pdf) from the AASHTO download site.
Both legs of I-395 in Baltimore are signed as if still 395 (certainly SB they are), but only one is official. MLK isn't, I believe.
Curious case of I-587 in Kingston - if it begins where it meets the circle at I-87, then you might consider the exit and circle to be signed but unofficial.
Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 13, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
In the case of I-495 in NY it looks like an error on the map. Notice that it's marked as an interstate from Manhattan to I-278, has a gap, then becomes an interstate again at I-678. Clearly an error in the map.
Except that the NYSDOT log and FHWA log mileage agree with it. It may be an error but it runs deeper than one map.
Are you sure we're looking at the same NYSDOT log?
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/technical-services/hds-respository/Traffic%20Data%20Report%202010%20Appendix%20E%20301-500.pdf
Quote from: deanej on February 14, 2012, 12:11:12 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 13, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
In the case of I-495 in NY it looks like an error on the map. Notice that it's marked as an interstate from Manhattan to I-278, has a gap, then becomes an interstate again at I-678. Clearly an error in the map.
Except that the NYSDOT log and FHWA log mileage agree with it. It may be an error but it runs deeper than one map.
Are you sure we're looking at the same NYSDOT log?
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/technical-services/hds-respository/Traffic%20Data%20Report%202010%20Appendix%20E%20301-500.pdf
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/oom/transportation-systems/repository/2012%20tour-bk.pdf
In the Cleveland, OH area, there is a section of I-90 Eastbound between SR-2 and I-271, a.k.a. the "Euclid Spur" where several pull-through overhead BGS say "I-90 EAST/I-271 SOUTH", although the latter route never multiplexes with the former.
Quote from: NE2 on February 14, 2012, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 14, 2012, 12:11:12 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 13, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
In the case of I-495 in NY it looks like an error on the map. Notice that it's marked as an interstate from Manhattan to I-278, has a gap, then becomes an interstate again at I-678. Clearly an error in the map.
Except that the NYSDOT log and FHWA log mileage agree with it. It may be an error but it runs deeper than one map.
Are you sure we're looking at the same NYSDOT log?
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/technical-services/hds-respository/Traffic%20Data%20Report%202010%20Appendix%20E%20301-500.pdf
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/oom/transportation-systems/repository/2012%20tour-bk.pdf
From that log it looks like I-495 and NY 495 are multiplexed with each other for a while. Interesting.
Quote from: pianocello on February 13, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on February 13, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
Is the Chicago Skyway still posted as "To I-90" and is it actually part of the interstate system?
Not sure about assurance markers, but the on-ramps are signed "TO I-90". Internally, it is part of the system.
Last time I was there it was signed TO I-90/94.
Quote from: deanej on February 15, 2012, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 14, 2012, 02:44:29 PM
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/oom/transportation-systems/repository/2012%20tour-bk.pdf
From that log it looks like I-495 and NY 495 are multiplexed with each other for a while. Interesting.
Look more carefully. According to the log, I-495 is QMT to I-278 and I-678 to NY 25, while NY 495 is only I-278 to I-678.
I will give you that one... but you're also the only roadgeek I know of to use that log. I should mention that NY's touring route system and NY's state route system are NOT the same thing. The log I mentioned (and is also used for the clinched highway mapping site) has it as a continuous road.
That log isn't even entirely right... the touring route NY 12E ends at NY 12F in Paddy Hill, but the log has it end at NY 12 in Watertown as the state route NY 12E does! There might be others, but they're harder to find as most differences are in routing and not endpoints.
I wouldn't mind seeing the FHWA route log... the only one I found simply listed how long each interstate is, and I have no desire to measure everything out in Google Maps.
Comparing the FHWA mileages with the NYSDOT traffic log, the FHWA figure matches the 2012 touring route book description.
I-270 Spur in MD. Is spur an official designation like business route or alternate?
Quote from: bugo on February 15, 2012, 06:15:40 PM
Quote from: pianocello on February 13, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on February 13, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
Is the Chicago Skyway still posted as "To I-90" and is it actually part of the interstate system?
Not sure about assurance markers, but the on-ramps are signed "TO I-90". Internally, it is part of the system.
Last time I was there it was signed TO I-90/94.
At least one of the overheads on the SB Ryan has been changed having it signed as I-90.
As for a signed but not official, it seems I-64 west of I-270 in Missouri was not officially approved for many years, but still mostly signed as a full interstate.
If I recall, the BGS' on the Ryan (and the IN Toll Road for that matter) always said "I-90 Chicago Skyway" - only the trailblazers along the Skyway were signed as "TO I-90" (EB) or "TO I-90/94" (WB).
Quote from: Stratuscaster on February 26, 2012, 04:31:18 PM
If I recall, the BGS' on the Ryan (and the IN Toll Road for that matter) always said "I-90 Chicago Skyway" - only the trailblazers along the Skyway were signed as "TO I-90" (EB) or "TO I-90/94" (WB).
According to IDOT and FHWA, it is I-90. According to the City of Chicago, it isn't. I'm inclined to go with IDOT and FHWA on this one.
State Road 265 in Jeffersonville, Indiana has blue I-265 mile markers on the sides of the road, even on the two-lane portion.
Quote from: kendancy66 on February 25, 2012, 02:04:03 AM
I-270 Spur in MD. Is spur an official designation like business route or alternate?
It's I-270Y in the Maryland State Highway Administration's Montgomery County section of the Highway Location Reference (http://www.marylandroads.com/pages/hlr.aspx?Pageid=832).