AARoads Forum

(Yes, I should have ran this yesterday, in keeping with the holiday spirit)

It is a leap year, which means in the US it is time to elect the President for the next 4 years. Inspired by this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6151.0), the point of this poll is to figure out the demographic split of the board, and furthermore to compare and contrast the records of the politicians especially as they relate to transportation and transit issues. The vote limit is set at two, in order to show a more complete picture of the community instead of forcing people to choose between two equally favored candidates.

I have compiled a basic list of the candidates records as they relate to transportation issues. If there is anything missing, or incorrect, let me know.

(D) Barack Obama

• Created the Stimulus, rebuilt numerous roads and bridges
• Pledged $53 Billion for High-Speed Rail
• Threatens to veto House Transportation bill if it somehow miraculously passes.

(L) Gary Johnson

• Sharply criticized the RailRunner in NM, saying it costs $70 to ride it if you count the government subsidies
• Widened and expanded many roads to expressways

(R) Newt Gingrich

• Supported HSR before
• Wishes to invest heavily in our nations infrastructure.

(R) Ron Paul

• Nicknamed "Dr. No" in the House, threatens to veto any bills not provided for by the Constitution
• Supports free market transportation
• Blames the decline of the railroads on the government over-regulating, and then building free competition in the form of the Interstate System and airports.

(R) Mitt Romney

• Threatens to end Amtrak as we know it if elected
• Endorsed by Mica

(R) Rick Santorum

• Earmarked heavily for Amtrak in his state of Pennsylvania

Again, if you have something that should be added to the list, please let me know. As of right now the straw poll includes all candidates that have received at least some media attention, and are somewhat prominent. Finally, because this is a heated election with many differing viewpoints please keep at least some semblance of decorum in here. We don't want the mods getting angry now, do we?  :nod:

I'd vote for Jake if he were an option.

"a vote for my opponent is a vote for Clearview."

Any vote I cast in this poll, or in the real election, will have almost nothing to do with transportation policy.  There are much more important issues out there, folks. 

QuoteAny vote I cast in this poll, or in the real election, will have almost nothing to do with transportation policy.  There are much more important issues out there, folks.

Yep- that said, real, focused transportation investment that isn't a high speed rail system as a form of stimulus (not the weird distribution that happened last stimulus) in a CCC like program (take all those people without jobs and have them  build transportation infrastructure and pay them to do it over a fixed, expiring, non-renewable term) could be something that would sway me towards somebody.

Government-subsidized transportation is a major key to making the capitalism engine run, so I wouldn't really support a Paulesque approach. American businesses would be completely uncompetitive if they had to provide their own infrastructure or pay the true cost of that infrastructure.

I guess I care about transportation policy to the extent that it helps business growth and puts people to work, but I care about it because of those reasons, not because I like roads.

Like Oscar, I wouldn't base my decision on who to vote for solely or even primarily on transportation policy--not just because there are other important issues out there, but also because there is little difference between any of the candidates on transportation funding.  I would, however, pay serious attention to a candidate whose approach to transportation acknowledged certain realities which I believe are denied by both major parties:

*  Toll roads, PPP, and other financing methods relying on leveraging private-sector capital will never come close to providing all the capacity increases or other capital improvements that will deliver a positive social rate of return.  There just isn't enough fallow capital out there and private financing brings huge deadweight costs with it.

*  Infrastructure banks are stupid.  Although building new infrastructure is a "pay now, reap benefits over time" proposition, which seems superficially appropriate for loan financing, the need for capital improvement recurs from year to year.  Better to pay as you go and to borrow only to exploit short-term drops in construction prices which more than cover the added financing costs.

*  Raising taxes is the cheapest way to provide new infrastructure, provided that the existing capacity limits on the highway construction industry are respected (putting more out to bid than it can handle is a sure recipe for inflation).

Obama, as it happens, has praised infrastructure banks, PPP, and "innovative financing" in general.  I don't agree with him on these points but I am willing to accept them as necessary window-dressing because in today's America, the political left has to genuflect to market liberalism in order to have decent prospects of election.  I personally think Obama is greatly helped by the fact that the three leading Republican opponents all seem dangerous in one way or another--Romney is dangerous to your job, Santorum is dangerous to you in general if you are a woman of childbearing age, and Gingrich is a loose cannon.

Obama has been disappointing, but he's the best we're going to get.  I'd vote third party (I may still) but a third party candidate has zero chance of winning.  So I go for the lesser of two evils.  Santorum and Newt "Newtzi" Gingrich are downright terrifying, and Mitt "Mittler" Romney is a corporate stooge.  The only GOP candidate with half a brain was Huntsman, and he was too rational for the lunatic Far Right.  Obama is our best bet.

Looks Chuck Norris prefer Newt over Santorum
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/why-i-chose-newt-over-santorum/
(There was lots of discussion about Santorum at http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?290942-2012-Presidential-Election-Thread-%28Please-Read-Rules-Before-Posting%29/page9 )

As for Obama, there was one guy who posted on the City-Data forums in 2008 then he compared Obama to.....former mayor of Detroit Coleman A. Young http://www.city-data.com/forum/elections/266917-obama-coleman-young.html

And there some cartoonists who did some "politically incorrect" cartoons about Barack Obama and his wife Michelle
http://biggovernment.com/hudlash/2012/02/21/obama-nation-change-you-can-do-without/
http://eater.com/archives/2010/05/17/michelle-obama-as-the-fat-police-in-the-new-york-post.php
http://conservativedailynews.com/2012/02/tyranny-on-the-menu-10/food-police-590-3/
For the "Food police", it won't be long before someone do a parody of Cheap Trick' "The Dream police" titled "The Food police". ;)

I am baffled as to how anyone in their right mind can view Frothy Mix of Semen and Feces as someone who should be in power.

remember, kids, condoms are murder!

Quote from: oscar on February 22, 2012, 12:27:26 AM
Any vote I cast in this poll, or in the real election, will have almost nothing to do with transportation policy.  There are much more important issues out there, folks. 

Like birth control.

I'll vote for Newt if he agrees to make me governor of his Moon Base once he fulfills his promise to make it the 51st state.

Nah, le't

Quote from: realjd on February 22, 2012, 02:09:46 PM
I'll vote for Newt if he agrees to make me governor of his Moon Base once he fulfills his promise to make it the 51st state.

Nah, let's go a step further and make Mars the 51st state. ;)

As for the Moon, I guess he shouldn't be on the Moon if the Moon decide to left its orbit just like Space 1999.;)

Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 22, 2012, 11:38:55 AM
I am baffled as to how anyone in their right mind can view Frothy Mix of Semen and Feces as someone who should be in power.

remember, kids, condoms are murder!

And Rape Babies are God's little blessings

Quote from: US71 on February 22, 2012, 05:08:43 PM

And Rape Babies are God's little blessings

no no, that's rape itself.  it even comes with a free ultrasound!

Gary Johnson isn't the official Libertarian candidate yet, but he's definitely the best option among the ones you've provided.

I didn't figure it would take long for this thread to turn into a (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQ0cqSDODfSh5DE8eD5z68C8l6oOIV4GkWklOh1ktjA0hoLXVuprGM_cg&hash=41cfd9ff31892596ff9627bc8068ca49dd726d9a).

Quote from: hbelkins on February 22, 2012, 10:50:17 PM
I didn't figure it would take long for this thread to turn into a bunch of people refusing to drink the repub koolaid.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 22, 2012, 10:50:17 PM
I didn't figure it would take long for this thread to turn into a

Well...look at it this way. If you'd combined the 4 Republican canidates, you'd have 22 votes compared to 15 for Obama, 4 for Gary Johnson, and 6 for "none of the above."

So come back...after the Republicans have their brokered convention and see how the vote would turn out then.

Anyone willing to bet on a brokered convention happening? Right now if all of them stay in and each get about 25% of the delegates, it might just happen for the first time in over 50 years.

The brokered convention won't happen. The candidates are who they are. August would be too late for anyone else to get in the race and raise the amount of money that would be required to go against Obama's money machine. If anyone else wanted to be in the race, they would have gotten in already.

For the record, I cast my two votes for Gingrich and Santorum. But I will most definitely vote for Romney over Obama if he's the nominee. Hell, I'd vote for the (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQ0cqSDODfSh5DE8eD5z68C8l6oOIV4GkWklOh1ktjA0hoLXVuprGM_cg&hash=41cfd9ff31892596ff9627bc8068ca49dd726d9a) before I'd vote for the incumbent, unless the unthinkable happens and Paul is the nominee.

Oh, and hi Randy. Now go shave and take a bath and go spout your racist rhetoric in someplace like Louisville's west end instead of all over Usenet.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 09:53:48 AM
Oh, and hi Randy. Now go shave and take a bath and go spout your racist rhetoric in someplace like Louisville's west end instead of all over Usenet.

What the fuck?

I might vote for anyone who guarantees the survival and expansion of the US—Mexican Cross-border program.
http://mexicotrucker.com/ (http://mexicotrucker.com/)

Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 22, 2012, 05:36:04 PM
no no, that's rape itself.  it even comes with a free ultrasound!

Sounds like socialized medicine to me! Don't you know that it's our God-given right to pay for health care?

Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2012, 10:14:09 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 09:53:48 AM
Oh, and hi Randy. Now go shave and take a bath and go spout your racist rhetoric in someplace like Louisville's west end instead of all over Usenet.

What the fuck?

Having been around as long as I have, I guess I just don't comprehend the fact that some people aren't familiar with the misc.transport.road Usenet newsgroup.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 11:21:38 AM

Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2012, 10:14:09 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 09:53:48 AM
Oh, and hi Randy. Now go shave and take a bath and go spout your racist rhetoric in someplace like Louisville's west end instead of all over Usenet.

What the fuck?

Having been around as long as I have, I guess I just don't comprehend the fact that some people aren't familiar with the misc.transport.road Usenet newsgroup.

Even if I were to understand your rant, I'd probably still wonder why you chose to put it here.

Randy Hersh has, ahem, quite a reputation on m.t.r. He's an avowed and very vocal racist and uses the n-word frequently. I've never met him in person, but those who have make note of the fact that he's rather unkempt and is badly in need of a shave, a haircut and a shower. He also claims to be a member here although somehow he's managed to keep his true identity a secret and fly under the radar.

Oh, he's also a big lib, hates Christians and Jews, and has to be eternally conflicted that the president who shares his political views is half black. He also hates rural states and the people there, and frequently wishes death upon them by way of flood, fire, tornado, earthquake or any other disaster.

I have him killfiled on m.t.r but someone's been carrying his water and reposts his comments verbatim so I'll see them (that won't happen again, as I just today plonked the one sole member of his fan club). In one of those quoted comments he made reference to my tagline here.

I just wanted to give him a friendly "hello, I know you're here and see this" and to push his buttons a little bit.

For anyone who's never read m.t.r, it would be worth it to install a Usenet client or use Google groups to read up on his sordid history.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 12:06:31 PM
I just wanted to give him a friendly "hello, I know you're here and see this" and to push his buttons a little bit.

I'll remember this excuse when I feel like flaming you.

Romney is the best "Republican" for the job. That said, I'd much prefer to keep Obama.

To put it another way, here's a list of "generic" political descriptions, listed in order from most favorable to least favorable:
Moderate Democrat
Independant
Radical Democrat
Libertarian
Moderate Republican
Socialist
Radical Republican

Quote from: vtk on February 23, 2012, 01:55:32 PM
Romney is the best "Republican" for the job. That said, I'd much prefer to keep Obama.

To put it another way, here's a list of "generic" political descriptions, listed in order from most favorable to least favorable:
Moderate Democrat
Independant
Radical Democrat
Libertarian
Moderate Republican
Socialist
Radical Republican

I guess we have no choice to vote for Coleman A....errr I mean Obama if the Republican Party chose Santorum or Gingrich instead of Romney or Paul.

There was also some extinct "generic" political descriptions like
Bourbon Democrat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_Democrat
Blue dog
Progressive Republican (Theodore Roosevelt)

Quote from: vtk on February 23, 2012, 01:55:32 PM
Radical Democrat
Socialist

You mean there's a difference?

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 23, 2012, 04:37:10 PM
Blue dog
Progressive Republican (Theodore Roosevelt)

"Blue Dog" isn't extinct. It's a phrase used to describe a conservative Democrat. We have a self-described "blue dog" in Kentucky's Congressional delegation, but he doesn't vote like one would expect a "blue dog" to.

My term for "Progressive Republican" is "RINO."

BTW, I've long felt that "progressive" is a terrible description to use for a liberal. I consider myself to be "progressive" and I'm not a liberal. Lots of conservative commentators use that word to describe those on the left. I wish they wouldn't. It's not an accurate description. Call them what they are, "liberals" or "socialists" or "secular humanists." (Glenn Beck's the worst for using that term but I don't make it a habit to listen to him because he's gotten too apocalyptic.)

After a few days, some interesting patterns are shown. Obama is liked by 1/3 of the voters on this board, but overall Republicans are favored 42% to 34% Obama, 7% Libertarians, and 15% NOTA or don't care. Honestly, I would have expected this board to be slightly more right or libertarian/individualist leaning.

If you want to confuse 'em, try this:

http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Libertarian+National+Socialist+Green+Party

Once again truth is stranger than fiction...LOL!

Rick

Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2012, 07:43:12 PM

Quote from: vtk on February 23, 2012, 01:55:32 PM
Radical Democrat
Socialist

You mean there's a difference?

"Blue Dog" isn't extinct. It's a phrase used to describe a conservative Democrat. We have a self-described "blue dog" in Kentucky's Congressional delegation, but he doesn't vote like one would expect a "blue dog" to.

Is there some differences between the blue dog and the bourbon democrats?  Does the blug dog are also referred as "DINO" (Democrats in Name only)?

Quote
BTW, I've long felt that "progressive" is a terrible description to use for a liberal. I consider myself to be "progressive" and I'm not a liberal. Lots of conservative commentators use that word to describe those on the left. I wish they wouldn't. It's not an accurate description. Call them what they are, "liberals" or "socialists" or "secular humanists." (Glenn Beck's the worst for using that term but I don't make it a habit to listen to him because he's gotten too apocalyptic.)

Here in Canada, the Conservative party of Canada was once referred as "Progressive Conservative party of Canada" until its merge with the Canadian Alliance but we just called them Conservative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Conservative_Party_of_Canada  The unthinkable happened in the last Canadian federal elections when the Neo Democrat Party (NDP) became the Official Opposition and kicked the Liberal Party to the 3rd party status. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2011 However, their leader at the time Jack Layton passed away after a fight against cancer and the successor will be chosen during this Spring.

Pardon me, but this isn't a political forum...