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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 05:20:59 PM

Title: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
Most people in the U.S. know the Beltway, as in the Capital Beltway, even if they have come near Washington.

What about other cities around the U.S. and the world?

London has the M-25, which (nearly) goes around the metropolitan area. 

Helsinki, Finland has Ring I, which would be an expressway under the U.S. system of highway functional classification, and Ring III, most of which would be functionally classed as a freeway.  Only a short "Super 2" section of Ring II has been built, and none of them complete a 360° arc because the city is on the Gulf of Finland.

Like Helsinki, it would be hard to build a "complete" circumferential highway around Boston, but it has two reasonably complete ones (given the dry land available) in Ma. 128 and I-495. 

I suppose the same could be said about New York with I-287. 
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
Are you asking for a list of such highways?

Without giving it any particular thought, off the top of my head cities that come to mind that have circumferential highways include Baltimore (I-695, the Baltimore Beltway), Charlotte's incomplete Outerbelt (I-485), Raleigh's Beltline (I-40 and I-440), Atlanta's Perimeter (I-285), Jacksonville (I-295), and St. Petersburg (the one in Russia, not the one in Florida).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Takumi on March 05, 2012, 05:35:27 PM
I-64/I-664 in Hampton Roads
Greensboro Urban Loop (unfinished, I-85/I-73/I-840)
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Beltway on March 05, 2012, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
Are you asking for a list of such highways?

Without giving it any particular thought, off the top of my head cities that come to mind that have circumferential highways include Baltimore (I-695, the Baltimore Beltway), Charlotte's incomplete Outerbelt (I-485), Raleigh's Beltline (I-40 and I-440), Atlanta's Perimeter (I-285), Jacksonville (I-295), and St. Petersburg (the one in Russia, not the one in Florida).

Other Interstate full beltways --

Norfolk/Hampton Roads (I-64 and I-664), Cincinnatti (I-275), Columbus (I-270), Indianapolis (I-465), St. Louis (I-270 and I-255), Kansas City (I-470 and I-435), Dallas (I-635), Fort Worth (I-820), Houston (I-610), San Antonio (I-410).

More partial Interstate beltways.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: TheStranger on March 05, 2012, 06:00:35 PM
The Boulevard Peripherique around Paris is a full freeway encircling the heart of the French capital.

Rochester has the Innerbelt, partially comprised of I-490.

Phoenix has a 3/4 loop with Loop 101 and Loop 202, with the southwest portion still in consideration.

Reno has McCarran Boulevard which is a surface street loop.  Winnipeg's Perimeter Highway is an expressway encircling town (with some interchanges).

Lexington, Kentucky has KY 4, New Circle Road (mostly freeway).

Interestingly I don't think there's any true "beltway" of that ilk in California.  There is a circular drive in Corona, Grand Boulevard, that lent the city its name.

Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Duke87 on March 05, 2012, 06:04:06 PM
The A10 around Berlin is the world's longest beltway, at 122 miles. M25 around London is second, at 117 miles.

(unless something that I'm not aware of was finished in China recently)
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: NE2 on March 05, 2012, 06:21:21 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ring_roads
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: txstateends on March 05, 2012, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on March 05, 2012, 05:43:49 PM
Dallas (I-635), Fort Worth (I-820),

I-635 was never (although it probably should have been) all the way circled around Dallas; the closest it came was when each end was at I-35E north and south of town in the early 1970s.  I-820, while eventually built around Fort Worth, is now no longer signed that way; the southern side is solely marked as I-20.

Meanwhile, on the state level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_highway_loops_in_Texas
(some listed there that are signed/designated as loops are better off as "spurs" or other non-loop designation as they don't really circle or bypass their particular area)
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 05, 2012, 06:04:06 PM
The A10 around Berlin is the world's longest beltway, at 122 miles. M25 around London is second, at 117 miles.

(unless something that I'm not aware of was finished in China recently)

From a hypertechnical standpoint, the M25 isn't a full beltway. The eastern crossing of the Thames is the A282 to avoid the problem of forcing vehicles not allowed on motorways to take a detour. But from the average motorist's practical viewpoint that's a nit-pick. (I suppose if you want to be 100 percent accurate you'd say "the London Orbital is second, at 117 miles.")
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 05, 2012, 06:04:06 PM
The A10 around Berlin is the world's longest beltway, at 122 miles. M25 around London is second, at 117 miles.

(unless something that I'm not aware of was finished in China recently)

From a hypertechnical standpoint, the M25 isn't a full beltway. The eastern crossing of the Thames is the A282 to avoid the problem of forcing vehicles not allowed on motorways to take a detour. But from the average motorist's practical viewpoint that's a nit-pick. (I suppose if you want to be 100 percent accurate you'd say "the London Orbital is second, at 117 miles.")

I only recently learned that M25 "ended" along that relatively short segment of A282 approaching the Dartford-Thurrock crossing of the Thames. 

I've not been on that segment of the system, but I've been told that A282 has the "look and feel" of a motorway, even though it is not.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: NE2 on March 05, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
I've not been on that segment of the system, but I've been told that A282 has the "look and feel" of a motorway, even though it is not.
This is because, unlike the U.S., the UK has strict laws about what traffic is allowed on a motorway.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: UptownRoadGeek on March 05, 2012, 10:27:33 PM
Houston: The Loop, The Beltway, The Parkway.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: mightyace on March 05, 2012, 10:50:04 PM
If the northern loop of TN 840 is ever built,  (see hell freezing over) the resulting loop based on preliminary routings for the loop would place it at 178 mi! (Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Route_840_%28Tennessee%29) or 187 miles (AAroads interstate guide).

The southern loop that hopefully will be finished this year will be about 78 miles.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: WNYroadgeek on March 06, 2012, 12:09:22 AM
I-90, I-190, and I-290 form a loop in Buffalo.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Mark68 on March 06, 2012, 02:37:25 AM
Denver--if Golden will allow completion of C-470 thru town (they want a tunnel, which would be way too expensive in the current economic situation). Between C-470, E-470 Tollway, and the NW Parkway (toll) is about 80% complete. If you drive from the NW end of C-470 (at US 6 in Golden) and head NW on US 6, continue N on SR 93 toward Boulder, then turn R on SR 128, then L on Interlocken Loop in Broomfield, you will connect with NW Pkwy just north of the Boulder Turnpike (US 36). There are 22 lights in about 24 miles, most of that route (probably 20 miles or so) is posted at 55 MPH.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: 1995hoo on March 06, 2012, 07:40:55 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 05, 2012, 06:04:06 PM
The A10 around Berlin is the world's longest beltway, at 122 miles. M25 around London is second, at 117 miles.

(unless something that I'm not aware of was finished in China recently)

From a hypertechnical standpoint, the M25 isn't a full beltway. The eastern crossing of the Thames is the A282 to avoid the problem of forcing vehicles not allowed on motorways to take a detour. But from the average motorist's practical viewpoint that's a nit-pick. (I suppose if you want to be 100 percent accurate you'd say "the London Orbital is second, at 117 miles.")

I only recently learned that M25 "ended" along that relatively short segment of A282 approaching the Dartford-Thurrock crossing of the Thames. 

I've not been on that segment of the system, but I've been told that A282 has the "look and feel" of a motorway, even though it is not.

Your latter sentence is why I noted my final point about saying "the London Orbital is second" rather than "the M25 is second"–that is, to say the London Orbital makes a continuous freeway is accurate, whereas from a technical viewpoint the M25 has that gap in it. It's sort of like that point that your second-grade teacher made about how every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on March 06, 2012, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on March 06, 2012, 12:09:22 AM
I-90, I-190, and I-290 form a loop in Buffalo.

in the same vein, I-80, I-280, and I-680 form a loop around ... a large puddle?
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: TheStranger on March 06, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 06, 2012, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on March 06, 2012, 12:09:22 AM
I-90, I-190, and I-290 form a loop in Buffalo.

in the same vein, I-80, I-280, and I-680 form a loop around ... a large puddle?

Had 280 remained on Route 1 in SF, and 101/37 from the Golden Gate Bridge to Vallejo via Novato approved in the Interstate system (it was rejected early on in the submission process)...I think 280/680 would have actually served as a true Bay Area beltway.

Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Takumi on March 06, 2012, 02:09:25 PM
I-64/95, I-195 and VA 195 form an inner loop around downtown Richmond.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: pianocello on March 06, 2012, 03:07:32 PM
I-69 and I-469 form a loop around Fort Wayne (IN), and I-80 and I-280 encircle the Quad Cities
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: PAHighways on March 06, 2012, 03:09:43 PM
We have our own Capital Beltway:  I-81, I-83, and PA 581.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: DeaconG on March 06, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
When the Wekiva Parkway is completed (hopefully construction will start soon) Orlando will have one (SR 417/429).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 06, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
Are you asking for a list of such highways?

No, just seems like a good discussion topic, that's all.

QuoteWithout giving it any particular thought, off the top of my head cities that come to mind that have circumferential highways include Baltimore (I-695, the Baltimore Beltway), Charlotte's incomplete Outerbelt (I-485), Raleigh's Beltline (I-40 and I-440), Atlanta's Perimeter (I-285), Jacksonville (I-295), and St. Petersburg (the one in Russia, not the one in Florida).

Stockholm is slowly but surely building a small-circumference beltway around its congestion taxing cordon area.  Only two segments are complete (on the west and south sides) and the north segment is under construction.  Except the 1960's era west segment, most of the rest will be below-grade.  The eastern part will have to go pretty deep under saltwater that has a fair amount of large oceangoing ships (mostly passenger vessels to Finland, Estonia and Russia).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: hbelkins on March 06, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: thenetwork on March 07, 2012, 02:38:37 AM
I had always hoped that Toledo would have built a freeway connecting I-475 and I-280 in Wood County (Southeast of Toledo), creating pretty much a full outer loop of Toledo (if you included the East/West stretch of I-75 north of downtown Toledo). 

That was more back in the day when I would drive from my parents house in Cleveland and have to reach the "West End" of Toledo -- there was never any easy way of getting from the I-280/Ohio Turnpike exit to the University of Toledo.  And even with the addition of the I-75 exit off of the 'pike, there still is some backtracking needed in order to reach the northwest side of the Maumee River.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: 1995hoo on March 07, 2012, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 06, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
....

Stockholm is slowly but surely building a small-circumference beltway around its congestion taxing cordon area.  Only two segments are complete (on the west and south sides) and the north segment is under construction.  Except the 1960's era west segment, most of the rest will be below-grade.  The eastern part will have to go pretty deep under saltwater that has a fair amount of large oceangoing ships (mostly passenger vessels to Finland, Estonia and Russia).

Yeah, I've been through the Stockholm Archipelago on a cruise ship and I noted at the time how any sort of bridge–intentionally disregarding the tunnel option–would be impractical because it would either have to be built absurdly high (which wouldn't really work on those islands) or it would have to be a bascule or swing span (neither of which make sense due to shipping volume). I remember thinking it would make more sense just to leave it as a half-beltway and maintain the ferry service they have now. But I also understand how if you live in that area, especially Rindö, a ferry is a pain in the arse since you have to take one every time you go somewhere. It's really easy for outsiders to argue that a bridge or tunnel is unnecessary but it's a quite different matter if you live there.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 07, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Beltways, ring highways and orbital motorways (as they say in Britain) are what I was talking about.

QuoteSay "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

Agreed. 

Some years ago, I was reading a Finnish newspaper (in Swedish, which is an official language in Finland), and saw the phrase "Inside Ring III" used in exactly the same context as "Inside the Beltway."  Having logged more miles and time wasted in congestion on the Capital Beltway in Maryland and Virginia than I care to admit, that reference to Ring III (Kehä III in Finnish) brought a smile to my face.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 07, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 07, 2012, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 06, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
....

Stockholm is slowly but surely building a small-circumference beltway around its congestion taxing cordon area.  Only two segments are complete (on the west and south sides) and the north segment is under construction.  Except the 1960's era west segment, most of the rest will be below-grade.  The eastern part will have to go pretty deep under saltwater that has a fair amount of large oceangoing ships (mostly passenger vessels to Finland, Estonia and Russia).

Yeah, I've been through the Stockholm Archipelago on a cruise ship and I noted at the time how any sort of bridge–intentionally disregarding the tunnel option–would be impractical because it would either have to be built absurdly high (which wouldn't really work on those islands) or it would have to be a bascule or swing span (neither of which make sense due to shipping volume). I remember thinking it would make more sense just to leave it as a half-beltway and maintain the ferry service they have now. But I also understand how if you live in that area, especially Rindö, a ferry is a pain in the arse since you have to take one every time you go somewhere. It's really easy for outsiders to argue that a bridge or tunnel is unnecessary but it's a quite different matter if you live there.

There are a fair number of swing spans and bascule bridges in various places around Sweden, but one of those would presumably not be acceptable for a motorway near or around Stockholm.  The 1960's western part of the circumferential motorway, called Essingeleden and posted as part of routes E4 and E20 features several high (fixed) bridges over parts of freshwater Lake Mälaren to the west of the urban core (even though the lake is freshwater, it carries a fair amount of shipping, hence the high bridges) - you can see what it looks like on Swedish-language Wikipedia here (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4laren). 

Essingeleden has the highest average daily traffic volume on Sweden's highway network at about 160,000.

Interesting aside - the Wikipedia article has at least one image of the highway in operation before 3 September 1967, when Sweden still drove on the left, and the motorway was partially completed (Essingeleden was engineered and designed for right-hand traffic - the decision to switch all road traffic to the right had been made by the Swedish Parliament in 1963). 
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 07, 2012, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Takumi on March 07, 2012, 08:59:48 PM
When I think of "Beltline" Raleigh automatically comes to mind.

Also I'd think of Charlotte when "Outerbelt" is mentioned, but that's because I live closer to Charlotte than Columbus.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on March 07, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
Texas is big on "Loop" routes. A number of cities have non-interstate freeways or expressways that go around them. In many instances, the U.S. routes go through town while the "Loop" routes go around, so you need to know in advance to take the Loop route to bypass the city and return to the route you're on.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: kphoger on March 08, 2012, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.



Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 06:10:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2012, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.



Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.

Yes, thru trucks over 6 wheels must use the perimeter.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages285%2Fi-285_ga_sj_03.jpg&hash=ab5bdadb09c80a434281a691de8e15359ae6b9d4)
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: mightyace on March 08, 2012, 10:28:59 PM
^^^

So, is it just commercial trucks or any vehicle with more than 6 wheels.  I used to own a trailer with two axles.  That would be 8 wheel when towing it.  Would you have to go around 285 or not?
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Alps on March 08, 2012, 11:42:22 PM
Quote from: mightyace on March 08, 2012, 10:28:59 PM
^^^

So, is it just commercial trucks or any vehicle with more than 6 wheels.  I used to own a trailer with two axles.  That would be 8 wheel when towing it.  Would you have to go around 285 or not?
Thru trucks, say the signs. So go ahead through.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 06:10:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2012, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.



Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.

Yes, thru trucks over 6 wheels must use the perimeter.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages285%2Fi-285_ga_sj_03.jpg&hash=ab5bdadb09c80a434281a691de8e15359ae6b9d4)

MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.  I don't have a CDL and I don't drive a commercial truck, so I have no direct experience, but that's what it seemed to look like.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: NE2 on March 09, 2012, 01:46:25 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 01:27:43 PM
MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.
Did you interview the drivers to make sure they were through trucks?
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: ftballfan on March 09, 2012, 10:53:47 PM
Detroit doesn't have one officially, but has two that may qualify.

1. I-275 (western leg)/I-696 (northern leg) - the northern end of I-275 is the western end of I-696

2. US-23 (big bypass of Detroit)

Lansing has one, consisting of I-96/I-69 (western), I-69 (northern), US-127/I-496 (eastern), and I-96 (southern).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: MrDisco99 on March 10, 2012, 01:07:09 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 01:27:43 PM
MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.  I don't have a CDL and I don't drive a commercial truck, so I have no direct experience, but that's what it seemed to look like.

If enforcement really was lax, then trucks would ignore the prohibition.  From what I've seen, they don't.

Take the connector end to end one day and count the number of semi's you see, then double back on the perimeter and look to see how many surround you any given moment.  Pretty sure the latter will be higher.


EDIT: connector translates to I-75/85 for you foreigners.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: InterstateNG on March 10, 2012, 01:46:35 AM
Quote from: NE2 on March 09, 2012, 01:46:25 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 01:27:43 PM
MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.
Did you interview the drivers to make sure they were through trucks?

Tollroadsnews reported it.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: vtk on March 10, 2012, 03:17:01 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 07, 2012, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."

There's also the Innerbelt, consisting of I-70/71/670 and OH 315.  If you work inside the Innerbelt, there's a good chance you work in government or insurance – but I don't think people refer to the Innerbelt with a cultural implication either.

The Innerbelt is about 7 miles long. The Outerbelt is 55 miles long. The Outer-Outerbelt which has been proposed in the past would probably be 120—160 miles long, but MORPC has rejected the idea. (Most of it would be outside their boundaries, though.) I think Superbelt would have been a better name...

I would also like to bring up differing usage of the words "inner" and "outer". In east coast cities like DC, these words refer to driving in different directions on their Beltway, and this is not always apparent to visitors from the middle of the country. In Columbus and some other cities, "innerbelt" and "outerbelt" refer to completely different freeways.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Brandon on March 10, 2012, 03:37:30 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Similarly for Chicago, it's the Tri-State Tollway (I-294) that's a cultural boundary.  You have Chicagoans who don't see past the Tri-State, and the rest of us who'd rather not go inside the Tri-State.  It's not quite a full beltway (Lake Michigan kind of does get in the way).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Bickendan on March 10, 2012, 04:58:45 PM
Ok, I've gotta ask: Tri-State Tollway. Is this a historical name or what, as looking at the map, it physically only exists in Illinois, stretching from the US 41 split on I-94 just south of the Wisconsin border to I-80/94/294/IL394 interchange just west of Indiana.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: kphoger on March 10, 2012, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on March 10, 2012, 04:58:45 PM
Ok, I've gotta ask: Tri-State Tollway. Is this a historical name or what, as looking at the map, it physically only exists in Illinois, stretching from the US 41 split on I-94 just south of the Wisconsin border to I-80/94/294/IL394 interchange just west of Indiana.

OK, I don't know the history behind the name.  But didn't you just answer your own question?  It stretches from near Wisconsin, through Illinois, to near Indiana.  That's three states.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Bickendan on March 10, 2012, 05:45:00 PM
But it doesn't physically leave Illinois at all. When I first saw the name, I thought it was an extension of the Indiana/Ohio Turnpike... Illinois, Indiana, Ohio... ok, that makes sense.
But no; the Tri-State doesn't leave Illinois, and the Indiana East-West Tollroad starts on the Chicago Skyway.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: vtk on March 10, 2012, 07:18:10 PM
The Tri-State Tollway is what it is, and always has been.  No, it doesn't actually enter Indiana or Wisconsin, but those are the other two states to which the name refers.  I suppose one could argue that roads like the Indiana Toll Road, Ohio Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, Kansas Turnpike, etc are just as much "tri-state" as the Tri-State Tollway.  I'm not sure there are any true multi-state tollways (besides bridges or similar short tolled connections across state lines) built and operated by single entities.

See also Chesapeake, Ohio's Tri-State Outerbelt, which isn't really either of those things, nor will it be when completed.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Brandon on March 10, 2012, 08:36:10 PM
It's called the Tri-State Tollway due to the fact it is the main connecting route between three states, from Indiana (connected by the 3 mile long Robert Kingery Expy) to Wisconsin (ISTHA apparently maintains the last mile that's not toll).  It's called that for the same reason I-94 is the Tri-State Highway in Indiana.

Coincidentally, the Tri-State Tollway and the Tri-State Highway (section through Gary and Hammond is also called the Frank Borman Expy) are connected by the Kingery Expy.  As a side note, the Kingery is the first controlled access highway in Illinois, dating from 1950.

It's also to separate it from the other 2 tollways built at that time (1958), the Northwest Tollway (in conjunction with the Northwest Expy - now JFK Expy) and the East-West Tollway (to Sugar Grove).
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: vtk on March 10, 2012, 07:18:10 PM
See also Chesapeake, Ohio's Tri-State Outerbelt, which isn't really either of those things, nor will it be when completed.

Is that actually what they are calling OH 7? I have never heard it called that.

And are there any plans to connect OH 7 to WV 193? The end of the Proctorville bypass is right across the river from the end of the Merritts Creek Connector.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 10, 2012, 09:47:01 PM
Quote from: vtk on March 10, 2012, 03:17:01 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 07, 2012, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."

There's also the Innerbelt, consisting of I-70/71/670 and OH 315.  If you work inside the Innerbelt, there's a good chance you work in government or insurance — but I don't think people refer to the Innerbelt with a cultural implication either.

The Innerbelt is about 7 miles long. The Outerbelt is 55 miles long. The Outer-Outerbelt which has been proposed in the past would probably be 120–160 miles long, but MORPC has rejected the idea. (Most of it would be outside their boundaries, though.) I think Superbelt would have been a better name…

I would also like to bring up differing usage of the words "inner" and "outer". In east coast cities like DC, these words refer to driving in different directions on their Beltway, and this is not always apparent to visitors from the middle of the country. In Columbus and some other cities, "innerbelt" and "outerbelt" refer to completely different freeways.

I think you typed "innerbelt" more times than the general populace of Central Ohio has said that word in the last 45 years.
Now if we were in Cleveland, we would use "innerbelt" almost on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: vtk on March 11, 2012, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 10, 2012, 09:47:01 PM
I think you typed "innerbelt" more times than the general populace of Central Ohio has said that word in the last 45 years.

Haha! Okay, so it's not used in the traffic reports from day to day, but I think at least some measurable fraction of Columbusites at least know what the Innerbelt is, and that its four legs can be referred to by a directional prefix similar to the Outerbelt. 
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: SidS1045 on March 19, 2012, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 05:20:59 PMit would be hard to build a "complete" circumferential highway around Boston, but it has two reasonably complete ones (given the dry land available) in Ma. 128 and I-495.

According to at least one source, MA-128 was the first beltway in the US.  Not sure if that's actually true, however.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: PurdueBill on March 19, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: vtk on March 10, 2012, 07:18:10 PM
The Tri-State Tollway is what it is, and always has been.  No, it doesn't actually enter Indiana or Wisconsin, but those are the other two states to which the name refers.  I suppose one could argue that roads like the Indiana Toll Road, Ohio Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, Kansas Turnpike, etc are just as much "tri-state" as the Tri-State Tollway.  I'm not sure there are any true multi-state tollways (besides bridges or similar short tolled connections across state lines) built and operated by single entities.

Related, but not exactly proving anything, is the interesting tidbit I've noticed on my Mass Pike Fast Lane (Mass version of EZPass) statements when I drive out to Chicago via the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, and Chicago Skyway.  The Skyway tolls are itemized as Indiana Toll Road transactions.  Not sure why this would be so except that the Skyway and Indiana Toll Road are maintained/operated by the same foreign concern (whose name escapes me and which someone else here will know immediately) so I guess at least for out-of-state tag transactions, they process them all under one umbrella?  Very odd to see the Skyway listed as an Indiana Toll Road item.  It lists as ITR "Plaza 50" eastbound and "Plaza 51" westbound.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: Alps on March 19, 2012, 08:16:57 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on March 19, 2012, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2012, 05:20:59 PMit would be hard to build a "complete" circumferential highway around Boston, but it has two reasonably complete ones (given the dry land available) in Ma. 128 and I-495.

According to at least one source, MA-128 was the first beltway in the US.  Not sure if that's actually true, however.
Believe it is; although the original 128 was just a circumferential road, it was well upgraded by the 50s as at least a four-lane divided highway.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: NE2 on March 19, 2012, 09:09:40 PM
NYC's Belt Parkway was intended as a beltway.
Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: SidS1045 on March 20, 2012, 10:42:00 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 19, 2012, 08:16:57 PM
the original 128 was just a circumferential road, it was well upgraded by the 50s as at least a four-lane divided highway.

Originally (in the 1920s and 1930s) it was just a cobbled-together string of local streets that described sort of a circle around Boston, if you de-focused your eyes while looking at a map of it.  The list of streets is on Steve Anderson's Boston Roads site:  http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/MA-128/

The first limited-access highway version of 128 was built in stages, beginning in 1936, and until 1955 did not exist south of MA-9 in Wellesley, where the highway ended in a T-intersection with traffic signals.

Title: Re: Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways
Post by: aridawn on March 25, 2012, 03:54:40 PM
Hamilton, ON now has an offical bypass.  It is signed as two routes but does a semi-circle around the city.  Starting at the QEW on the south end of the city, taking the Red Hill Valley Parkway west, at the top of the "mountain" (Niagra Escarpment) it JCT's with Lincon Alexander Parkway "The Linc", and Mud St W.  Following The Linc north to finish the bypass at ON-403.

below is the google maps link of the bypass

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=hamilton,+on+bypass&hl=en&ll=43.222941,-79.876442&spn=0.221657,0.528374&t=m&z=12