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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: kphoger on March 24, 2012, 03:02:08 PM

Title: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2012, 03:02:08 PM
Are there locations other than the one I describe below at which the two traffic directions switch sides of the boulevard?  Obviously this is the case with all diverging diamond interchanges, but what about 'normal' thoroughfares?

In the city of Oaxaca:
http://g.co/maps/b5bda (http://g.co/maps/b5bda)
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Ian on March 24, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Chasse Street (http://g.co/maps/ztf4g) in Auburn, Maine seems to have switched directions of travel.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: pianocello on March 24, 2012, 03:32:17 PM
There's the "wrong-side" pair of one-way streets in Springfield, IL (map) (http://g.co/maps/7fb5n). I like the idea, because left turn lanes in cross streets can be longer, especially if there's not much room between the streets.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: myosh_tino on March 24, 2012, 03:33:43 PM
Interstate 5 switches sides just north of Santa Clarita.  Northbound lanes are on the left, southbound lanes are on the right.

http://g.co/maps/ewsr6
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: 1995hoo on March 24, 2012, 04:21:12 PM
I-85 in central North Carolina sees the carriageways cross for a time. There's a rest area and Vietnam veterans memorial between the carriageways. Maybe they wanted the exits for it to be on the right. If you don't know about the crossovers it's easy to miss because the median is treed and there's some distance between the roadways.

I'd post a link to a map except I'm posting on my phone.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: realjd on March 24, 2012, 05:19:01 PM
At the Miami airport, on the east boundary, there is a road just west of Le Jeune Rd that is wrong-way for almost it's entire length due to the ramp configurations.

There's a spot on I-275 in St. Pete just north of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge where the carriage ways reverse also.

I've never heard the term contraflow in this context. At least around here, contraflow is when they reverse one direction on a freeway so both carriage ways go in one direction to help with hurricane evacuation.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2012, 06:56:18 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on March 24, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Chasse Street (http://g.co/maps/ztf4g) in Auburn, Maine seems to have switched directions of travel.

That seems to be more of a crossover, albeit a very wide one.

Quote from: myosh_tino on March 24, 2012, 03:33:43 PM
Interstate 5 switches sides just north of Santa Clarita.  Northbound lanes are on the left, southbound lanes are on the right.

http://g.co/maps/ewsr6
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 24, 2012, 04:21:12 PM
I-85 in central North Carolina sees the carriageways cross for a time. There's a rest area and Vietnam veterans memorial between the carriageways. Maybe they wanted the exits for it to be on the right. If you don't know about the crossovers it's easy to miss because the median is treed and there's some distance between the roadways.

I'd post a link to a map except I'm posting on my phone.

I should have clarified that I was looking specifically at local streets.  After all, I-8 switches sides in the middle of nowhere as well.  Although it is pretty awesome that there's a rest area in the middle of a wrong-way alignment.

Quote from: realjd on March 24, 2012, 05:19:01 PM
I've never heard the term contraflow in this context. At least around here, contraflow is when they reverse one direction on a freeway so both carriage ways go in one direction to help with hurricane evacuation.

Yeah, I didn't know what else to call it, and figured someone might know the correct term and rename the thread... Maybe it should be called 'Wrong-way alignments other than DDIs' or something.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: MASTERNC on March 24, 2012, 07:03:24 PM
The northern junction of I-95 and I-695 in Baltimore had both freeways switching sides (shorter ramps was the rationale).  With the express toll lane construction, I-95 has been "unbraided" and I-695 will likely be as well in the near future.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: flowmotion on March 25, 2012, 01:49:28 AM
This isn't exactly a local street, but the access roads to Phoenix Sky Harbor's terminals go the 'wrong way':

http://g.co/maps/pdh8n

Seems like an odd decision, so I'm curious if anyone knows the reasoning.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kphoger on March 25, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: flowmotion on March 25, 2012, 01:49:28 AM
This isn't exactly a local street, but the access roads to Phoenix Sky Harbor's terminals go the 'wrong way':

http://g.co/maps/pdh8n

Seems like an odd decision, so I'm curious if anyone knows the reasoning.

I'm wondering if it allows passengers to be let out and picked up curbside rather than streetside.  Not having been there, I don't know if that's even true.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2012, 10:23:39 AM
There's the famous portion of A-20 in Montreal.  It even has exits on that portion.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Revive 755 on March 25, 2012, 02:58:06 PM
One block of River Street in downtown Aurora, IL, between Galena and New York Streets:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.75948,-88.316141&spn=0.001699,0.004128&t=h&z=19 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.75948,-88.316141&spn=0.001699,0.004128&t=h&z=19)

Really thrilling with the oncoming traffic south of Galena.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: NE2 on March 25, 2012, 03:15:05 PM
Here's one with no median at all (on a driveway in downtown Orlando):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F2mnkdxe.jpg&hash=f9f4466fa12d6a2ffd2565f193246e2897cdce84)
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: J N Winkler on March 25, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 24, 2012, 03:02:08 PMIn the city of Oaxaca:

http://g.co/maps/b5bda (http://g.co/maps/b5bda)

This looks like a CFI variant.  Intersections of this type are used fairly extensively in Mexico but there are few US examples (though one was recently built in Louisiana).
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: hbelkins on March 25, 2012, 10:08:20 PM
There's a bridge crossing I-640 in Knoxville near the (mumble) mall where traffic drives on the left side of the road.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: 1995hoo on March 26, 2012, 09:40:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 24, 2012, 06:56:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 24, 2012, 04:21:12 PM
I-85 in central North Carolina sees the carriageways cross for a time. There's a rest area and Vietnam veterans memorial between the carriageways. Maybe they wanted the exits for it to be on the right. If you don't know about the crossovers it's easy to miss because the median is treed and there's some distance between the roadways.

I'd post a link to a map except I'm posting on my phone.

I should have clarified that I was looking specifically at local streets.  After all, I-8 switches sides in the middle of nowhere as well.  Although it is pretty awesome that there's a rest area in the middle of a wrong-way alignment.

....

Here's a link to an aerial view of the I-85 location. (http://binged.it/GUhEvU)

Regarding streets.... I don't know if this one really qualifies, but if you want one that's totally unique, check out Savoy Court in London. It's unique because it's the only street in the United Kingdom on which all traffic is required to drive on the RIGHT side of the road instead of the left. Savoy Court is located outside the Savoy Hotel and the story is that by requiring traffic to keep to the right it allowed a cab driver to reach out the window and open the rear suicide door for the passenger to step onto the curb without having to get out of the vehicle himself.


Another example closer to home might be several of the access roads to the Pont Victoria in Montreal. (http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.494112,-73.515299&spn=0.002839,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.494126,-73.515407&panoid=HeXxvQaNzZ68R3Qvv3sFkQ&cbp=12,301.76,,0,16.14) A number of the access roads on the eastern/southern side of the St. Lawrence where the road crosses the Seaway are marked with "Keep Left" signs. I'm not really sure this is a true case of "driving on the wrong side of the street" because when I trace out the ramps on a map there doesn't seem to be any circumstance under which traffic would be coming from the other direction on those roads during two-way operation. (The entire bridge itself is operated one-way during rush hours, but under those circumstances there would be no two-way operation on the access roads).


The photo NE2 posted reminds me that there's a parking garage on 13th Street in downtown DC across from the Warner Theatre that has traffic drive on the left. A lot of first-timers fail to notice the signs even though they're quite prominent.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Brian556 on March 26, 2012, 02:26:31 PM
This one's kinda small, but it's a u-turn setup under I-35E in Corinth, TX
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.140902,-97.049862&spn=0.000018,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.140902,-97.049862&panoid=txhowbM7BlC-iZKR-z-7eg&cbp=12,238.46,,0,0 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.140902,-97.049862&spn=0.000018,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.140902,-97.049862&panoid=txhowbM7BlC-iZKR-z-7eg&cbp=12,238.46,,0,0)
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
Yeah, wrong-way turnarounds are fairly common.

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 25, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
This looks like a CFI variant.  Intersections of this type are used fairly extensively in Mexico but there are few US examples (though one was recently built in Louisiana).

Agreed, it's like a CFI Mutant.  Except that, with a CFI, the through lanes never switch sides.
There's an example of an actual CFI just to the east of where I posted a link.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kharvey10 on March 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
http://g.co/maps/4z7mj

Here is one at an interchange in the St. Louis area.  These are the ramps - northbound on left, southbound on right.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: NE2 on March 26, 2012, 05:04:24 PM
Who wants to list all the stacks? Or can we stick with surface roads?
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Kacie Jane on March 26, 2012, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on March 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
http://g.co/maps/4z7mj

Here is one at an interchange in the St. Louis area.  These are the ramps - northbound on left, southbound on right.

I feel like this sort of setup with flyovers is relatively common.  The I-5/I-405 junction in Lynnwood, WA does this.

(written before NE2's snark, posted after)
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2012, 05:34:31 PM
Yes, please, surface roads where traffic actually switches sides of the road.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: 1995hoo on March 26, 2012, 06:13:24 PM
There is a weird two-block section of Bainbridge Street in Philadelphia where traffic drives on the left (http://binged.it/GTUp0Z), but the traffic doesn't actually "switch over" because the street is one-way for the entire rest of its existence and this odd two-block stretch has a median of sorts. The westbound side is really more in the nature of a separate street.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: vtk on March 26, 2012, 06:49:20 PM
I have thought for a long time that some kind of standard pavement marking should be defined for this kind of thing, particularly where a median or other barrier wouldn't be practical.  Perhaps a red stripe, sandwiched between a double yellow or white stripes.  This would permit untangling of left-turn movements at some pairs of intersections (such as at a tight diamond).
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: flowmotion on March 26, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: flowmotion on March 25, 2012, 01:49:28 AM
This isn't exactly a local street, but the access roads to Phoenix Sky Harbor's terminals go the 'wrong way':

http://g.co/maps/pdh8n

Seems like an odd decision, so I'm curious if anyone knows the reasoning.

I'm wondering if it allows passengers to be let out and picked up curbside rather than streetside.  Not having been there, I don't know if that's even true.

Going into street view, I can see that you're correct -- The terminal building is underneath that parking garage in the center.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: realjd on March 27, 2012, 08:35:55 AM
Quote from: vtk on March 26, 2012, 06:49:20 PM
I have thought for a long time that some kind of standard pavement marking should be defined for this kind of thing, particularly where a median or other barrier wouldn't be practical.  Perhaps a red stripe, sandwiched between a double yellow or white stripes.  This would permit untangling of left-turn movements at some pairs of intersections (such as at a tight diamond).

Yellow on the outsides, double white in the middle with raised white reflector posts separating traffic is how I'd do it. I've never seen an actual standard for this.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: english si on March 27, 2012, 09:13:33 AM
Savoy Court (http://g.co/maps/jfgkg) in London is drive-on-right to allow cab drivers/chauffeurs to open the passengers' door onto the pavement without getting out, saving time (the turning circle at the end of the road defines the turning circle that licensed hackney carriages have to be able to turn in).
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2012, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: english si on March 27, 2012, 09:13:33 AM
Savoy Court (http://g.co/maps/jfgkg) in London is drive-on-right to allow cab drivers/chauffeurs to open the passengers' door onto the pavement without getting out, saving time (the turning circle at the end of the road defines the turning circle that licensed hackney carriages have to be able to turn in).

if you pan to the right in that street view, you can see a van that says Quicksilver Messenger Service.  looks like they named themselves after the band!
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: brownpelican on March 27, 2012, 11:53:15 AM
All travel lanes cross over and go the wrong way at the I-65/I-20/I-59 interchange in Birmingham.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Bickendan on March 28, 2012, 06:18:16 PM
The I-10 carpool lanes/El Monte Busway between I-710 and Alameda St on US 101.
Title: Re: Contraflow situations other than DDIs
Post by: Scott5114 on March 29, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2012, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: english si on March 27, 2012, 09:13:33 AM
Savoy Court (http://g.co/maps/jfgkg) in London is drive-on-right to allow cab drivers/chauffeurs to open the passengers' door onto the pavement without getting out, saving time (the turning circle at the end of the road defines the turning circle that licensed hackney carriages have to be able to turn in).

if you pan to the right in that street view, you can see a van that says Quicksilver Messenger Service.  looks like they named themselves after the band!

Quicksilver is an old-timey name for the element mercury (Hg).