Fair question, I think!
From the BBC Web site: Are our street names sexist? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17203823)
QuoteA tiny proportion of streets in Rome are named after women, while nearly half are named after men - and it is a similar story in other major cities around the world. Outrageous sexism, a simple fact of history, or both?
QuotePlace your finger on a street map and it's far more likely to land on a road named after a man than one named after a woman. You may not have given it much thought, but Maria Pia Ercolini has. The geography teacher in Rome says her city's landscape is dominated by men and wants that to change.
This falls squarely in the "who cares" category. Regardless, most roads carry only the person's last name which makes the road's "gender" irrelevant.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 11, 2012, 01:11:37 PM
Fair question, I think!
From the BBC Web site: Are our street names sexist? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17203823)
QuoteA tiny proportion of streets in Rome are named after women, while nearly half are named after men - and it is a similar story in other major cities around the world. Outrageous sexism, a simple fact of history, or both?
Simple fact of history, flowing from outrageous sexism. Roads named for people often are named for the powerful or famous, from whose ranks women were disproportionately shut out. But I doubt that people naming roads reject powerful or famous women in favor of lesser men.
For one data point, many roads in Hawaii are named for monarchs, most of whom were male (united Hawaii followed British rules on succession, which basically let a woman take the throne only if she has no living brothers). But the one reigning queen, Liliuokalani, has most of Interstate H-1 named for her, and one queen who never reigned but was a real power behind the throne (Kaahumanu, wife of Kamehameha the Great) has several highways named for her, while one of the lesser kings in the Kamehameha dynasty (Kamehameha II) has not even an alley named for him.
Quote from: oscar on April 11, 2012, 05:12:16 PMSimple fact of history, flowing from outrageous sexism. Roads named for people often are named for the powerful or famous, from whose ranks women were disproportionately shut out. But I doubt that people naming roads reject powerful or famous women in favor of lesser men.
You basically beat me to what I was going to say. The naming of streets isn't sexist, it's coincidence based on a sexist history.
We live in a patriarchal society. That's why most streets are named after males. Most of the important historical figures have been men. Society is becoming more equal, and there will be more roads named after females in the future. There are several prominent woman politicians currently in power, and there will be roads named after them. It's not sexist, it's just a remnant of a male-dominated society.
Yeah, arbitrarily gender-washing street names is more offensive than being 'sexist'- as women become more powerful, they'll get their street names.
Quote from: oscar on April 11, 2012, 05:12:16 PM
Simple fact of history, flowing from outrageous sexism. Roads named for people often are named for the powerful or famous, from whose ranks women were disproportionately shut out.
Even simpler is that with the exception of royalty, women were
generally not well-known inventors, musicians, scientists, doctors, held high religious nor military rank, writers, artists, philosophers, politicians, benefactors et cetera...until the 20th century.
A patriarchal society doesn't even need to be called sexist. I think most men in our country's bygone era (at least the 1900s) would wholeheartedly say that the women were just as important to our society as the men, but in a different way. The difference is that the roles women had were not ones that brought them fame and wide esteem. If the most capable and well-balanced mother had somehow achieved the same level of fame as a Governor, then I'm sure there'd be streets named after her. But, sadly, the home life is overshadowed by the outside-the-home life, and I don't really see a way that that would change. This is all just musing, of course....
Out in suburbia, it's not uncommon to see streets with first names on them. (My theory is it's the developer naming them after his/her kids.) And these newer streets are split pretty evenly between boy names and girl names in my experience. I've seen a good sampling as a mapmaker.
A lot of the ones here in Los Angeles are last names but named for a male. Or the few named after people like Cesar Chavez Ave, MLK Blvd, James M Wood Blvd, etc are all men of course, I can't think of any streets named specifically after women here though...
But I agree it lands under the Who Cares category. If you want a street named after a woman then lets have a woman do something thats worth of naming a street after. If there is one, then change a street name if you want to. Who cares :pan:
Quote from: kphoger on April 11, 2012, 05:56:28 PM
A patriarchal society doesn't even need to be called sexist. I think most men in our country's bygone era (at least the 1900s) would wholeheartedly say that the women were just as important to our society as the men, but in a different way.
Separate but equal. Gotcha.
Quote from: NE2 on April 11, 2012, 08:04:29 PMSeparate but equal. Gotcha.
That's a good excuse for going into the ladies locker room - you are not being a pervert, but making a protest against an unjust system of apartheid. ;)
The people of the past looking at our cultural assumptions would consider us incredibly bigoted towards women. They would see our "the same otherwise not equal" as denying the humanity of women - that they need to do traditionally male roles, have the same accolades as men, effectively become the same men in everything but biology otherwise they aren't equal is a flat out denial of an ontological equality of genders.
Then the question is "who is right?" - the answer must surely be that both views (or rather both caricatures of the views, though there's always been bigots) are wrong in different ways - either forced difference, or forced uniformity, of genders is not the way to go.
realjd's "who cares?" is surely the right response to the more niche issue of roads named after people.
Quote from: english si on April 11, 2012, 10:09:31 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 11, 2012, 08:04:29 PMSeparate but equal. Gotcha.
That's a good excuse for going into the ladies locker room - you are not being a pervert, but making a protest against an unjust system of apartheid. ;)
If only the women's bathroom had a baby change station and I had a baby to change, it would be a good reason.
I'm considering building a neighborhood for only women.. It will be called "Kitchen Valley"! With street names such as "Sandwich Lane" and "Stove-top Blvd"!
Now that's sexist!
BigMatt
They sure are!
I mean, Broad Street? Really? (And does anyone under 70 still say "broad"?)
Streets named after specific people may be more commonly named for men than women, which as others have pointed out is understandable based on history, but I've seen more streets that are named after women's first names than men's.
That someone is making an issue out of this is absurd.
But, on a semi-related note... am I the only one who has assigned a perceived gender to street name suffixes? Suffixes that one might associate with big, major thoroughfares ("avenue", "boulevard", "street", "road") are masculine while suffixes typically only found on small side streets ("place", "lane", "terrace", "court") are feminine.
Look for many streets to be renamed "Hillary Clinton Blvd" when she passes.
I could care less myself. As it's been said before, just a small coincidence.
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2012, 12:20:57 PM
I could care less myself. As it's been said before, just a small coincidence.
Maybe you could care less but, personally, I could
n't care less. :spin:
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2012, 03:12:35 PMMaybe you could care less but, personally, I couldn't care less. :spin:
Are you English? Are you English? Are you English in disguise? (In Disguise) Are you English in disguise?*
(if you don't get the reference, you probably aren't)
Quote from: english si on April 13, 2012, 05:13:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2012, 03:12:35 PMMaybe you could care less but, personally, I couldn't care less. :spin:
Are you English? Are you English? Are you English in disguise? (In Disguise) Are you English in disguise?*
(if you don't get the reference, you probably aren't)
Apparently I'm not..
The Baltimore- Washington Parkway (not the MD 295 expressway named part) is named the Gladys Noonan Spellman Parkway.
Betsy Ross Bridge in Philadelphia. What about colleges and buildings? I think women have come a long way.
We have a neighborhood street named after African-American poet Margaret Walker Alexander. It used to be called Guynes Street, the same street Medgar Evers lived and was assassinated on.
Down in Petal, the late lieutenant governor Evelyn Gandy has a parkway named for her.
There's an Anna Acton Way in Louisville. It's only purpose is to connect from the dogleg in Tucker Station Road to Redspire Drive in Bradford Commons. At least now with the additional development in Bradford Commons, it actually connects to Bradford Commons Drive as well.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 12, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
That someone is making an issue out of this is absurd.
But, on a semi-related note... am I the only one who has assigned a perceived gender to street name suffixes? Suffixes that one might associate with big, major thoroughfares ("avenue", "boulevard", "street", "road") are masculine while suffixes typically only found on small side streets ("place", "lane", "terrace", "court") are feminine.
Oddly enough, YES.
As for the topic at hand, a lot of the streets in Baltimore City are the surnames of notable men. It almost doesn't matter, though, because only historians could tell you that Preston was a mayor of Baltimore and that Howard was a governor of MD, for instance. And in reality, the general public could care less as long as the road doesn't have lane closures or too many potholes.
The whole street suffix gender thing sounds similar to most Indo-European languages having genders for everything.
I remember French lessons where I got told "no no no, not le table, but la table - can't you see that it's feminine" was said by the (native speaking) teacher and the response was typically something (unless the person wasn't feeling in the mood for trouble) along the lines of "are the French insane - table's an it" and I'm pretty sure one time some story about the classroom coming alive at night and the reason why the female tables were held together by chewing gum was that the masculine items were giving them a damn good seeing to every night. Purely out of frustration, not malice - though the teacher didn't typically see it that way and decided that we ought to be punished if we went on a rant at how illogical french nouns are.
Quote from: english si on April 16, 2012, 06:25:43 AM
The whole street suffix gender thing sounds similar to most Indo-European languages having genders for everything.
I remember French lessons where I got told "no no no, not le table, but la table - can't you see that it's feminine" was said by the (native speaking) teacher and the response was typically something (unless the person wasn't feeling in the mood for trouble) along the lines of "are the French insane - table's an it" and I'm pretty sure one time some story about the classroom coming alive at night and the reason why the female tables were held together by chewing gum was that the masculine items were giving them a damn good seeing to every night. Purely out of frustration, not malice - though the teacher didn't typically see it that way and decided that we ought to be punished if we went on a rant at how illogical french nouns are.
Similar for Spanish, where the gender assignments for nouns can also tie into other biases -- for example, "right" is "el derecho" while "left" is "la izquierda".
The gender of ordinary nouns thing never bothered me at all, and honestly it seems perfectly natural. But then again, I was exposed to a lot of Italian at a young age, so maybe that's where I picked up the tendency.