Seems like every freeway entrance sign I've seen in the past 10 years was nearly brand new. Were these ever button copy?
Doubtful, as button copy rarely makes it off of overhead or other big guide or service signs. But I'm no button copy expert...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages605%2Fi-605_ca_nt_10.jpg&hash=ab4d53a90d5fb32ad249bac5c9be828dc0a3ac88)
I don't remember ever seeing a 'Freeway Entrance' sign itself in button-copy.
A lot of regulatory signs seems to have been in button-copy, though.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcaltrafficsigns.com%2Fpictures%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10001%2Fnormal_NoUTurn.jpg&hash=b90921c3860c5faaf0d4c7d08637dfbb2bc67067)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcaltrafficsigns.com%2Fpictures%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10001%2FTruck.jpg&hash=0ce88e659d0c022684c93f056b6789675362b277)
I am not aware of any instances of "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" in button copy, nor do I think the obsoleted Caltrans sign specs include a spec for it in button copy. Traditionally it used to be direct-applied (retroreflective sheeting) copy on opaque coated background.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 25, 2012, 09:44:06 AM
I am not aware of any instances of "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" in button copy, nor do I think the obsoleted Caltrans sign specs include a spec for it in button copy. Traditionally it used to be direct-applied (retroreflective sheeting) copy on opaque coated background.
In my travels in California, I don't think I have every seen a button copy FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 25, 2012, 05:07:36 AM
A lot of regulatory signs seems to have been in button-copy, though.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcaltrafficsigns.com%2Fpictures%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10001%2Fnormal_NoUTurn.jpg&hash=b90921c3860c5faaf0d4c7d08637dfbb2bc67067)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcaltrafficsigns.com%2Fpictures%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10001%2FTruck.jpg&hash=0ce88e659d0c022684c93f056b6789675362b277)
those aren't button copy. those look to be either glass cateye, or Stimsonite reflectors - each placed into holes drilled into the front plate of the sign itself, as opposed to being individually attached letters, numbers, or symbols.
cateyed signs were a standard into the 1950s in some places. California switched to Stimsonite in 1942, and the last Stimsonite porcelain signs that had holes in the front of the sign were issued in 1963.
FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs were first posted in California in the mid to late-60s, introduced along with WRONG WAY as a response to a rash of freeway wrong-way drivers. Highly unlikely they would have been anything but retroreflective by that date.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on April 25, 2012, 08:21:17 PM
FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs were first posted in California in the mid to late-60s, introduced along with WRONG WAY as a response to a rash of freeway wrong-way drivers. Highly unlikely they would have been anything but retroreflective by that date.
It is
possible that there were FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs with button reflectors. It was 1971's major sign revision that got rid of aluminum signs with holes in the front for reflectors. This was the revision that got rid of the black speed limit signs. Those, as well as signs like STOP, were aluminum with button reflectors.
but, small guide signs by then were non-reflective green with reflective white legend.
so, if the FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs were introduced in the late 60s, the question is were they classified under "guide" or "regulatory". Since they are green, I believe they were guide signs, and therefore retroreflective white on non-reflective green.
But I am not 100% sure on this.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 25, 2012, 10:47:43 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on April 25, 2012, 08:21:17 PM
FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs were first posted in California in the mid to late-60s, introduced along with WRONG WAY as a response to a rash of freeway wrong-way drivers. Highly unlikely they would have been anything but retroreflective by that date.
It is possible that there were FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs with button reflectors. It was 1971's major sign revision that got rid of aluminum signs with holes in the front for reflectors. This was the revision that got rid of the black speed limit signs. Those, as well as signs like STOP, were aluminum with button reflectors.
but, small guide signs by then were non-reflective green with reflective white legend.
so, if the FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs were introduced in the late 60s, the question is were they classified under "guide" or "regulatory". Since they are green, I believe they were guide signs, and therefore retroreflective white on non-reflective green.
But I am not 100% sure on this.
What about WRONG WAY? i would think they would be subect to the same classification. How were STOP signs of this era manufactured?
I have a copy of the wrong-way study, which includes photographs of the various test signs, all of which used retroreflective sheeting for foreground legend at bare minimum. (The "DO NOT ENTER"/"WRONG WAY" signing package was required to be entirely retroreflectorized from the early 1980's at the very minimum, and I suspect this requirement applied from a much earlier date because it is much more critical for preventing wrong-way travel.)
In addition to two-line "WRONG WAY" (which uses Series F in California instead of Series D as in the MUTCD and the rest of the US), Caltrans also uses single-line "WRONG WAY" (with Series D), and in the 1960's Caltrans also experimented with "GO BACK - YOU ARE GOING - WRONG WAY" with a horn and special sign light, both of which were designed to be triggered by a wrong-way movement. (Caltrans also considered one-way tire shredders, which are legal at parking lot entrances in California, but rejected them because of the potential for the teeth to deform under high-speed impact and then threaten the tires of vehicles travelling in the legally permitted direction.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F8%2F8c%2FCaltrans-go-back-experimental-sign.png&hash=db3e211e6642c6caa57ab88af4b1f62aff067636)
That's an interesting sign, one I didn't know even existed at one point. I actually think that's better than the current signage they use now.
They use them a lot here in Australia - here is an example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fgeneral%2Fregulatory%2Fimages%2Fwrongway.jpg&hash=17be39d34ae5c67247ab2a4755143866ae3344d2)
I think the GO BACK YOU ARE GOING WRONG WAY signage with warning lights triggered by wrong-way vehicles was used at only a few select problem areas as a test - I don't remember seeing it in general usage. My recollection is that the Harbor (11/110) Freeway was where many of the problems occurred and some of the options tested. Another new sign that came out of this initiative was the now standard DO NOT ENTER sign based on the wordless European model.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 25, 2012, 05:07:36 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages605%2Fi-605_ca_nt_10.jpg&hash=ab4d53a90d5fb32ad249bac5c9be828dc0a3ac88)
I don't remember ever seeing a 'Freeway Entrance' sign itself in button-copy.
I found it interesting that the I-605 shield is considerably larger than the I-210 shield. My guess is that since the 605 main starting point is at this intersection, that is why the I-605 shield is larger.
Quote from: CenVlyDave on April 28, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
I found it interesting that the I-605 shield is considerably larger than the I-210 shield. My guess is that since the 605 main starting point is at this intersection, that is why the I-605 shield is larger.
I doubt Caltrans is anywhere near that organized! the 605 shield is big and the 210 shield is small because when it came time to put together that sign, they grabbed one big shield and one small one.
Quote from: roadfro on April 25, 2012, 04:35:16 AM
Doubtful, as button copy rarely makes it off of overhead or other big guide or service signs. But I'm no button copy expert...
In other areas, darn near everything was made with button copy. For example, here in Illinois, ISTHA (tollways) used button copy on almost all large and small green and blue signage. They even had white-on-black button copy for the toll plazas. Most of it is gone now. I would've thought, with the massive use on big green signs, that CalTrans would've used it everywhere.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 28, 2012, 10:28:02 AM
Quote from: CenVlyDave on April 28, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
I found it interesting that the I-605 shield is considerably larger than the I-210 shield. My guess is that since the 605 main starting point is at this intersection, that is why the I-605 shield is larger.
I doubt Caltrans is anywhere near that organized! the 605 shield is big and the 210 shield is small because when it came time to put together that sign, they grabbed one big shield and one small one.
Good point! Forgot what agency I was dealing with for a moment, lol!
Quote from: CenVlyDave on April 28, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
I found it interesting that the I-605 shield is considerably larger than the I-210 shield. My guess is that since the 605 main starting point is at this intersection, that is why the I-605 shield is larger.
If I had to guess, the I-605 sign could have been added later. The portion between I-10 and I-210 was built in the 1960s and only became I-605 after federal funding was approved. Several sources say it was part of unbuilt CA-243 but I don't know if it was ever signed that way.
If I had to take a guess, I'd think the large shield came into play because of the numbers. The 210 in its shield barely appears to fit, no way that 605 would fit in a similar sized blank!
Quote from: Darkchylde on August 20, 2012, 08:24:47 AM
If I had to take a guess, I'd think the large shield came into play because of the numbers. The 210 in its shield barely appears to fit, no way that 605 would fit in a similar sized blank!
I'm sold on that answer!
As an aside to this whole topic: Has anyone ever been to a state where "freeway entrance" signs aren't mandatory? Or live(d) in one? I travel a lot, so I have.. and I didn't realize what a convenience they are until I had to guess in near-darkness if I'm supposed to turn before or after some tiny arrow.
I honestly didn't know any state but California had them.
Quote from: kphoger on August 22, 2012, 10:54:09 AM
I honestly didn't know any state but California had them.
they are routine in Nevada and Arizona. I just spotted one in New Mexico. it was blue, ostensibly to match the interstate shield! :pan:
I have seen FREEWAY ENTRANCE in Colorado only on I-70 near Grand Junction. I also remembered seeing them in Minnesota, but they may have been sacrificed for the signage on many urban onramps for carpool bypass lanes.
Freeway entrance signs are also fairly routine in Utah, but they are usually seen alone (without the companion Interstate shield, direction, and arrow on the same pole).
Regards,
Andy
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 22, 2012, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: kphoger on August 22, 2012, 10:54:09 AM
I honestly didn't know any state but California had them.
they are routine in Nevada and Arizona. I just spotted one in New Mexico. it was blue, ostensibly to match the interstate shield! :pan:
New York uses "Parkway Entrance," at least on Long Island. I wouldn't call it a standard, but I've seen enough of them.
Quote from: CenVlyDave on April 28, 2012, 01:47:50 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 25, 2012, 05:07:36 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages605%2Fi-605_ca_nt_10.jpg&hash=ab4d53a90d5fb32ad249bac5c9be828dc0a3ac88)
I don't remember ever seeing a 'Freeway Entrance' sign itself in button-copy.
I found it interesting that the I-605 shield is considerably larger than the I-210 shield. My guess is that since the 605 main starting point is at this intersection, that is why the I-605 shield is larger.
At one point in time the I-605 designation stopped at I-10 and it was to be a state route north of there (Route 243). So I was wondering if perhaps that shield was covering a state route shield. But that wouldn't be possible. The I-605 designation was extended north of I-10 in 1968, but the I-605/I-210 junction was built in 1971.
Re: freeway entrance signs in other states...
I guess I was thinking specifically of the California standard sign, and wasn't even considering other freeway entrance signage.
I usually consider the prohibition signs to be the official starting point of the freeway. You know–motorized vehicles only, no hitchhiking, no U turns, etc. I never paid close attention until I started hitchhiking, but then it became important: walking past that sign to hitchhike was a violation of the law (assuming it said "no hitchhiking), while standing in front of the sign left the legality up to any applicable state and local laws.
Even those prohibition signs seem to be absent from many (all?) freeways in Missouri. What other states out there don't post any type of freeway entrance or prohibition signs?
Quote from: kphoger on August 28, 2012, 04:06:41 PM
Even those prohibition signs seem to be absent from many (all?) freeways in Missouri.
I don't think Missouri has a blanket prohibition on bikes/peds on Interstates. At least one sign does exist: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.100742,-94.571482&spn=0.007427,0.016512&gl=us&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.100748,-94.571595&panoid=5j3_dwcJlLq5ZuLg8DTBEw&cbp=12,315.19,,1,0.13