I kind of fed this thread on m.t.r., but would like to pose it on a less toxic forum.
This is all hypothetical, since I have no plan at this time to drive to New York. New York state parkways ban "commercial vehicles". As I understand the definition of how the state of New York licenses various types of vehicles, my personal full-size pickup truck (a Nissan Titan) would by default be licensed as a Commercial Vehicle unless I showed its unladen weight was under 5500 lb. (I think it's a little under that) and I don't use it in a business. Actually, I do, but it's a rental property locally and I use the same vehicle for recreational travel.
Now, as a Colorado resident traveling as a tourist to New York, and hauling a travel trailer, I'm wondering what parkway restrictions would apply. Obviously, if I see a "No Trailers" sign or a sign restricting vehicles lower than what I know the height of my trailer to be, I would know to stay off were I hauling at that location. But, am I automatically excluded in my pickup from a parkway? Colorado has no "Commercial Vehicle" category. My vehicle registration should an officer ask for it is "Light Truck", but my license plate is the same as any other Colorado passenger vehicle.
The "Commercial Vehicle" restriction is based on how New York licenses its vehicles. How do they deal with out of state traffic?
Just searched around and found a forum on officer.com where one inquires about driving an out-of-state pickup on the NY parkways. The consensus on the discussion was that as long as it has non-commercial registration, then its ok. Apparently, NY changed its rules and now permits NY-registered pickup trucks to apply for a car registration to travel the parkways. As long as you're not hauling a trailer, and have no visual exterior signs that the truck is used for commercial reasons, it would appear you are ok.
Here's that thread:
http://forums.officer.com/t103904/
And a NY brochure on parkways that didn't tell me anything I didn't know, but does have some contact info. Better to be safe than get a ticket:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/osss/repository/NYCDOT%20NYSDOT%20Parkways%20Brochure%20October%202009.pdf
That's funny, I never thought of it being a weight, may times I travelled NYC parkways in a 1980's Caddy that weighed more than 5500 pounds empty.
I believe all NY cares about is height and weight. In NYC, it might just be height. I know the Lake Ontario State Parkway is built to lower standards in Monroe County even with regards to roadbed (it's built to regular standards in Orleans County and allows trucks on that section); NYC parkways might have a regular road bed due to the traffic. I believe trucks under a certain height are allowed on part of Grand Central Parkway due to the I-278 multiplex.
Quote from: deanej on May 02, 2012, 01:09:39 PM
I believe all NY cares about is height and weight. In NYC, it might just be height. I know the Lake Ontario State Parkway is built to lower standards in Monroe County even with regards to roadbed (it's built to regular standards in Orleans County and allows trucks on that section); NYC parkways might have a regular road bed due to the traffic. I believe trucks under a certain height are allowed on part of Grand Central Parkway due to the I-278 multiplex.
Wrong. Trucks are required to take one of the two 'frontage roads' (i.e., adjacent streets) during the multiplex.
Quote from: Sykotyk on May 02, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: deanej on May 02, 2012, 01:09:39 PM
I believe trucks under a certain height are allowed on part of Grand Central Parkway due to the I-278 multiplex.
Wrong. Trucks are required to take one of the two 'frontage roads' (i.e., adjacent streets) during the multiplex.
There is a signed "Truck I-278" along Astoria Blvd. Curious in and of itself, since I know of no other place in the country where there is a bannered truck route for an interstate. But, signage coming off the Triboro bridge only says that vehicles over 12'6" which must exit at 31st Street (never mind that the clearance under the el over 31st St is itself 12'6", so the overheight vehicles must do more than just use the service road, they have to go a longer way around). And, right before the BQE split, "CARS ONLY" is painted on the left two lanes there.
You don't see too many tractor-trailers coming into Queens via the Triboro, mostly just small box trucks. Larger trucks headed to Long Island typically use the Throggs Neck Bridge.
As for driving your pickup on parkways, it's perfectly fine. Trailers aren't allowed, though. Same goes for parkways in Connecticut and New Jersey.
Regarding the original question, I think you'll be fine as long as you don't have "commercial" plates. Looking up at my plate wall, four of my plates do have it, and one has "Permanent" which might be a trailer designation in Oregon. If they don't stand out from regular plates, I wouldn't sweat it.
Quote from: Sykotyk on May 02, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Trucks are required to take one of the two 'frontage roads' (i.e., adjacent streets) during the multiplex.
That used to be true. However, around the year 2000, they started allowing trucks under 12'6" up to 3 axles to use that part of the highway.
- Lyle
Quote from: shadyjay on May 01, 2012, 11:00:51 PM
Just searched around and found a forum on officer.com where one inquires about driving an out-of-state pickup on the NY parkways. The consensus on the discussion was that as long as it has non-commercial registration, then its ok. Apparently, NY changed its rules and now permits NY-registered pickup trucks to apply for a car registration to travel the parkways. As long as you're not hauling a trailer, and have no visual exterior signs that the truck is used for commercial reasons, it would appear you are ok.
But the signage at entrances to the New York (state) parkways still reads "passenger cars only," right?
My state (Maryland) does not issue "commercial" or (for that matter) "non-commercial" registration plates for pickup trucks and vans.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 02, 2012, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on May 02, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: deanej on May 02, 2012, 01:09:39 PM
I believe trucks under a certain height are allowed on part of Grand Central Parkway due to the I-278 multiplex.
Wrong. Trucks are required to take one of the two 'frontage roads' (i.e., adjacent streets) during the multiplex.
There is a signed "Truck I-278" along Astoria Blvd. Curious in and of itself, since I know of no other place in the country where there is a bannered truck route for an interstate. But, signage coming off the Triboro bridge only says that vehicles over 12'6" which must exit at 31st Street (never mind that the clearance under the el over 31st St is itself 12'6", so the overheight vehicles must do more than just use the service road, they have to go a longer way around). And, right before the BQE split, "CARS ONLY" is painted on the left two lanes there.
You don't see too many tractor-trailers coming into Queens via the Triboro, mostly just small box trucks. Larger trucks headed to Long Island typically use the Throggs Neck Bridge.
As for driving your pickup on parkways, it's perfectly fine. Trailers aren't allowed, though. Same goes for parkways in Connecticut and New Jersey.
NY posts all their height signs 12 inches lower than the actual height. A 13'6 truck will fit easily. Hell, a 13'6 truck will fit under the Brooklyn Bridge on the BQE when it's posted as 12'2. Go figure. And NYC is upset with all the trucks hitting bridges when they can't consistently post the true heights on their signs.
As for the parkways, they usually have " ( \ ) " no truck signs with "No Commercial Vehicles". At least the ones out on Long Island. Also listing a height restriction of 7'10.
The DOT doesn't want vehicles to mis-judge their height by an inch or two and get stuck. Believe it or not, many trucks have gotten stuck under bridges even with the height posted lower!
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Quote from: deanej on May 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Maybe for New York, but for Connecticut a commercial vehicle is any vehicle used for commercial purposes. This also thus includes plumber's vans, contractor's pickups, etc.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 06, 2012, 11:25:24 AM
Quote from: deanej on May 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Maybe for New York, but for Connecticut a commercial vehicle is any vehicle used for commercial purposes. This also thus includes plumber's vans, contractor's pickups, etc.
Taxis?
Quote from: NE2 on May 06, 2012, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 06, 2012, 11:25:24 AM
Quote from: deanej on May 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Maybe for New York, but for Connecticut a commercial vehicle is any vehicle used for commercial purposes. This also thus includes plumber's vans, contractor's pickups, etc.
Taxis?
Connecticut has "Taxi" defined as a specific type of registration, as well as "Livery". So, no, they are not "Commercial" vehicles in the legal sense, and yes, they are allowed on the parkway.
I'll bet you can drive a sedan delivery type car on the Parkways today, whereas during the time they were made, you would've got pulled over by the Long Island State Park Police, or any similar agency.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/1960_Chevrolet_Sedan_Delivery.jpg
Sedan delivery is a job I know I'll keep, it sure was hard to find...
Now I'm gonna be hearing Neil Young's whiny voice in my head the rest of the evening.
Quote from: Sykotyk on May 05, 2012, 09:18:42 PMNY posts all their height signs 12 inches lower than the actual height. A 13'6 truck will fit easily. Hell, a 13'6 truck will fit under the Brooklyn Bridge on the BQE when it's posted as 12'2. Go figure. And NYC is upset with all the trucks hitting bridges when they can't consistently post the true heights on their signs.
In some rural areas they usually sign the true heights. For example, on I-87 north of Plattsburgh, the low overpasses all have plaques saying "ACTUAL HEIGHT / HAUTEUR LIBRE".
But if I was driving a truck, I wouldn't risk it, even in the absence of these plaques.
Back on topic, if they do decide whether a vehicle is commercial or not by looking at the plate, I wonder how they decide for out-of-state drivers, as commercial plates in some states are not obvious at all. In QC for example, it's most plate numbers starting with 'L' (with exceptions) and some starting with 'F'. In some other places, only the number's colour changes...
The law may be by plate but enforcement most likely relies on vehicle type. If you are a truck or a bus, you don't belong. If you have a trailer, you don't belong. If you are a contractor's van with a commerical registration but no obvious markings as to the nature of the use of the vehicle other than the plates... you could probably drive by 100 cop cars and not get blinked at even though you technically don't belong, either.
Quote from: deanej on May 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
The DOT doesn't want vehicles to mis-judge their height by an inch or two and get stuck. Believe it or not, many trucks have gotten stuck under bridges even with the height posted lower!
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Sorry to quote an old post, but I believe Sykotyk's point was that trucks get stuck under bridges precisely because they're underposted. They know the bridge isn't really 12'2", so let's see how tall it actually is... Oops.
One time when I was returning to Long Island, I rented a Ford Expedition after a blizzard. Even though they were probably legal on the parkways, I stayed off on principal alone, because the Expedition shares it's body with the F-150.
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on May 16, 2012, 09:40:15 AM
Quote from: Sykotyk on May 05, 2012, 09:18:42 PMNY posts all their height signs 12 inches lower than the actual height. A 13'6 truck will fit easily. Hell, a 13'6 truck will fit under the Brooklyn Bridge on the BQE when it's posted as 12'2. Go figure. And NYC is upset with all the trucks hitting bridges when they can't consistently post the true heights on their signs.
In some rural areas they usually sign the true heights. For example, on I-87 north of Plattsburgh, the low overpasses all have plaques saying "ACTUAL HEIGHT / HAUTEUR LIBRE".
But if I was driving a truck, I wouldn't risk it, even in the absence of these plaques.
Back on topic, if they do decide whether a vehicle is commercial or not by looking at the plate, I wonder how they decide for out-of-state drivers, as commercial plates in some states are not obvious at all. In QC for example, it's most plate numbers starting with 'L' (with exceptions) and some starting with 'F'. In some other places, only the number's colour changes...
Arizona commercial plates (can be for car, van or truck)
CA-00000, CB-00000, CC-00000 (4 digits with Commercial Disability Plates)
Up until a few years ago in Connecticut you could only register a pick up truck with a commercial or combination plate. The combination plate was for pick ups which were privately owned so they could be both a commercial and passenger plate. So as you can imagine several of my friends with pick ups have traveled the New York Parkways with their P/Us. All most all of them have been ticketed for driving a commercial vehicle on the parkway with the combination plate. One of them went to court and his ticket was upheld as NY would not agree that a combination plate could be used as a passenger plate as Connecticut does. NY does not have a combination plate although in NY you can register a P/U with passenger plates.
Since then some one important from Connecticut was stopped for the same violation and now in Connecticut you can register a P/U with a passenger plate and drive on the NY Parkways worry free.
If the police were to judge by license plate alone and had a passing knowledge of Colorado plates, I might get by. When Colorado first began issuing its current series, it continued issuance of truck plates for pickups (with a vertical TRK code) as previously. Then partway through the series, they stopped issuing these plates and only issued standard passenger vehicle plates. There is no obvious reason for a different plate for pickups, since nowhere in Colorado that I'm aware of is there any prohibition on trucks on any public road. My registration says "light truck", and there is no "commercial vehicle" category in the state. So, my truck has the same kind of plate as any passenger vehicle.
Somewhat ironically, since light trucks pay a higher license fee, there is a special category for pickup truck owners that only use their vehicles for commuting or recreational use: recreational truck, and the plate has a vertical "RTK" code. Those owners pay only the equivalent passenger vehicle fee. That seems kind of analogous to the option in New York to register a pickup as a passenger vehicle if nothing will be carried in it. But, I'd probably be more likely to be stopped in New York because of unfamiliarity with the meaning of the plate. I don't use this option because I do carry cargo occasionally, such as building materials, and could be stopped with a RTK plate. I also wonder how the tool box I usually have on the truck, even when hauling my recreational trailer, would be viewed.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on May 18, 2012, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on May 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
The DOT doesn't want vehicles to mis-judge their height by an inch or two and get stuck. Believe it or not, many trucks have gotten stuck under bridges even with the height posted lower!
Commercial Vehicle and truck seem to be considered one and same as far as the DOT is concerned.
Sorry to quote an old post, but I believe Sykotyk's point was that trucks get stuck under bridges precisely because they're underposted. They know the bridge isn't really 12'2", so let's see how tall it actually is... Oops.
For the most part, if the route is an STAA route, 13'6 fits unless there's a specific restriction noted (such as I-580 in Oakland, the tunnels out east near Norfolk, NYC, etc). NY signs their bridges from the center of the axle, not from the bottom of the wheel. So, a 13'6 tractor-trailer will usually clear a bridge in NYC signed as low as about 12'1. However, that's only for YELLOW advisory signs. If the sign is white and states "ACTUAL HEIGHT", you won't fit.
It gets to the point that trucks in NYC don't even pay attention to bridge heights as the sign is pointless. It's either a truck route, or it's not. If it is, the sign is disregarded. If it isn't, then the standard "add a foot" is used.
The biggest issue with bridges in NYC is the Hutchinson Parkway when coming north off the Whitestone Bridge. Truckers regularly fail to exit onto I-278 or I-95 (Bruckner or Cross Bronx), and wind up ramming a bridge about 11' tall. Despite all the warnings, it happens regularly. Mostly because GPS will tell you if you're going north on I-95, that the Hutch will take you there as the more efficient route than exiting onto I-95 and then handling the merge at I-295 and the cross over of the Hutchinson further north.
Which, is a big no-no.
And then there's daytime length restrictions in Manhattan, overall length limits in NYC to non-STAA trucks, signage requirements for local trucks, etc.
When you say "travel trailer" do you mean something the size of a refrigerator (or one of the fold-down kinds), or something more substantial?
Several of the parkways in NYC have very low overpasses. I drive a mini SUV and I still worried I was going to scrape the bridge. At highway speed, 7 feet of clearance feels pretty close even if it really isn't. I know I've never seen anything like it before or since.
https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/brochures/parkway-brochure (https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/brochures/parkway-brochure)
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 02, 2012, 03:47:24 AM
The biggest issue with bridges in NYC is the Hutchinson Parkway when coming north off the Whitestone Bridge. Truckers regularly fail to exit onto I-278 or I-95 (Bruckner or Cross Bronx), and wind up ramming a bridge about 11' tall. Despite all the warnings, it happens regularly.
The notorious Westchester Avenue overpass is 10'2" northbound. Bruckner Boulevard, before it, is 11'1" in the outside lanes but considerably higher in the middle.
It's also fairly common to see trucks get stuck or can-openered by overpasses further north on the Hutch and Merritt whenever there is particularly nasty traffic on I-95 (especially if it's closed for some reason). Many truckers not familiar with the area will get on the parkway to continue on their route and avoid arriving late, thinking that all they're risking is a ticket, unaware that the restrictions against large trucks are physical as well as legal. King Street, at the state line, is a common spot, and a few years ago NYSDOT installed an overheight vehicle detector approaching it on the northbound side (southbound approaching it is in Connecticut and they haven't done anything).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 03, 2012, 08:45:17 AM
But the signage at entrances to the New York (state) parkways still reads "passenger cars only," right?
It depends. Back in late 2005 through early 2006, they replaced all the old parkway signs on Long Island that read "Passenger Cars Only" and replaced them with new ones that read "No Commercial Vehicles" and give a height limit. In New York City and the Hudson Valley, though, the signs generally still say "Passenger Cars Only."