perhaps they should stripe the forbidden zone red? yellow tends to mean "commercial loading, 20 minutes", which is exactly what the workmen appear to be doing.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
perhaps they should stripe the forbidden zone red? yellow tends to mean "commercial loading, 20 minutes", which is exactly what the workmen appear to be doing.
Yellow has been the norm in Virginia for as long as I can remember, though. Edited to add: Per this link, apparently the use of yellow is a Fairfax County requirement. (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/prevention/firelaneguide.htm)
In the case of workmen, though.....Saturday one guy had a car parked on the yellow curb from 9:00 AM until 6:00 PM. The guy was a car detailer. I find it annoying but I tend not to say anything UNLESS they get in the way of my getting in or out of my driveway. (I will give the lady next door some credit–last week when a truck pulled up and blocked my driveway to deliver a new refrigerator to her house, before she let them unload she called me to ask if I needed to go anywhere in the next half hour so that I could move the car before they started unloading. I appreciated that, as most workmen would just start unloading and then act annoyed when you ask them to move the truck.)
Either way, I suspect even if they used red paint they'd still have that sign reading "FIRELANES," and that misspelling irks me every time I see it.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
perhaps they should stripe the forbidden zone red? yellow tends to mean "commercial loading, 20 minutes", which is exactly what the workmen appear to be doing.
Huh?? I was always taught that yellow curb was no parking. Now I'm in Maryland and spent a bunch of years in Virginia when I was in the Air Force so maybe its a 'Mid Atlantic thing'
Quote from: bsmart on May 14, 2012, 01:38:27 PM
Huh?? I was always taught that yellow curb was no parking. Now I'm in Maryland and spent a bunch of years in Virginia when I was in the Air Force so maybe its a 'Mid Atlantic thing'
must be a state-by-state thing. California is the way I described. I don't remember Massachusetts, which is where I learned to drive: I didn't own a car most of the time that I lived there.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
perhaps they should stripe the forbidden zone red? yellow tends to mean "commercial loading, 20 minutes", which is exactly what the workmen appear to be doing.
That's a crazy California thing, I think you guys also paint white curbs for some reason. In the rest of the country, yellow = no, blue = handicapped, red = *mumble*, nothing = park here.
Yellow means "No Parking"? Really? I did not know that.
In California, here's what the curb colors mean (per CVC Sec 21458)...
RED -- No Parking (ever)
YELLOW -- Loading Zone
WHITE -- Loading Zone or Depositing Mail
GREEN -- Short Term Parking (generally 30 minutes of less)
BLUE -- Handicapped Parking
Although loading zones can be either yellow or white, yellow is more common. I find it fascinating that curb colors have different meanings across the country. I would have thought someone would have tried to standardized these markings to eliminate any ambiguity (although posted signs would remove any ambiguity).
Quote from: myosh_tino on May 14, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Yellow means "No Parking"? Really? I did not know that.
In California, here's what the curb colors mean (per CVC Sec 21458)...
RED -- No Parking (ever)
YELLOW -- Loading Zone
WHITE -- Loading Zone or Depositing Mail
GREEN -- Short Term Parking (generally 30 minutes of less)
BLUE -- Handicapped Parking
Although loading zones can be either yellow or white, yellow is more common. I find it fascinating that curb colors have different meanings across the country. I would have thought someone would have tried to standardized these markings to eliminate any ambiguity (although posted signs would remove any ambiguity).
Again, I think it's just California. MUTCD applies everywhere, except where state law supersedes. It sounds like CA's curb colors are written into the state law, so even if the other 49 states all follow the same standards, CA can't be forced to match them, they have to do it themselves and I'm sure they see no reason to change. After all, they've always viewed themselves as bigger/better than the MUTCD.
The red zone is for loading and unloading...
In Kentucky, yellow is "no parking." Red is "no parking, there's a fire hydrant here."
I've always assumed that here, in PA, Yellow was a general "No Parking", and red was a more strict "No Parking". (Never really thought about it that much till now, actually...). Perhaps yellow is a No Parking, as in parking the car and leaving it, and red is No Parking, or even stopping (sometimes referred to as "Standing") while you're in the car with the engine running.
I'm a cheap bastard, so if I'm not sure I won't get a ticket or towed, I err on the side of finding somewhere else to park.
In Oklahoma you tend to only see painted curbs in private parking lots, and they're usually red (but I think I've seen yellow). On actual streets I don't think curbs are painted at all; parking restrictions are posted on signs.
Kansas usually only uses yellow. Red and blue will be seen in private parking lots, but I don't recall having ever seen either of those colors on a public street.
Quote from: Steve on May 14, 2012, 06:59:56 PM
Again, I think it's just California. MUTCD applies everywhere, except where state law supersedes. It sounds like CA's curb colors are written into the state law, so even if the other 49 states all follow the same standards, CA can't be forced to match them, they have to do it themselves and I'm sure they see no reason to change. After all, they've always viewed themselves as bigger/better than the MUTCD.
I did not know the MUTCD had curb color guidelines but it's good to know that curb colors outside of California have different meanings. Other than the blue handicapped markings, everything else is different and I could see how easy it would be for a Californian to get a parking ticket (or towed) if parked in a yellow zone in, say, Pennsylvania.
I am not entirely sure which came first, the California curb colors or the MUTCD (an argument I'm not willing to get into at this time) but to try to change the curb colors now is probably not feasible because of the mass confusion it would cause and any kind of "grace" period would mean a significant loss of revenue for local governments (i.e. parking tickets).
Quote from: myosh_tino on May 14, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
In California, here's what the curb colors mean (per CVC Sec 21458)...
RED -- No Parking (ever)
YELLOW -- Loading Zone
WHITE -- Loading Zone or Depositing Mail
GREEN -- Short Term Parking (generally 30 minutes of less)
BLUE -- Handicapped Parking
Although loading zones can be either yellow or white, yellow is more common. I find it fascinating that curb colors have different meanings across the country. I would have thought someone would have tried to standardized these markings to eliminate any ambiguity (although posted signs would remove any ambiguity).
These curb colors generally also have the same meaning in Nevada, with yellow being more common than white as a loading zone color.
Quote from: myosh_tino on May 15, 2012, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: Steve on May 14, 2012, 06:59:56 PM
Again, I think it's just California. MUTCD applies everywhere, except where state law supersedes. It sounds like CA's curb colors are written into the state law, so even if the other 49 states all follow the same standards, CA can't be forced to match them, they have to do it themselves and I'm sure they see no reason to change. After all, they've always viewed themselves as bigger/better than the MUTCD.
I did not know the MUTCD had curb color guidelines but it's good to know that curb colors outside of California have different meanings. Other than the blue handicapped markings, everything else is different and I could see how easy it would be for a Californian to get a parking ticket (or towed) if parked in a yellow zone in, say, Pennsylvania.
The National MUTCD gives no standard meaning for painted curbs for enforcement of parking regulations. Their preference is to establish parking regulations by signage. The MUTCD prescribes an option that gives agencies the option to use colored curbs to supplement parking regulation signs. They also would prefer not to use yellow or white, since these colors are used in the delineation of curbs.
Off the top of my head I can't say I've ever seen a red or blue curb in the USA (I might have in the UK and I just don't recall it), but then I've also never been to California.
Quote from: Steve on May 14, 2012, 06:40:07 PMred = *mumble*
what??
I seem to recall in NYC (the one place I regularly needed to go out of my way to find parking), the trick was to take any spot that wasn't near a hydrant or signed as NO PARKING.
Quote from: roadfro on May 15, 2012, 03:59:24 AM
These curb colors generally also have the same meaning in Nevada, with yellow being more common than white as a loading zone color.
...
The National MUTCD gives no standard meaning for painted curbs for enforcement of parking regulations. Their preference is to establish parking regulations by signage. The MUTCD prescribes an option that gives agencies the option to use colored curbs to supplement parking regulation signs. They also would prefer not to use yellow or white, since these colors are used in the delineation of curbs.
It's good to know that California's curb coloring scheme is being used by other states. Steve's post made it seem like California was "going it alone" on curb coloring and that the other 49 states were all "standardized" on what was in the national MUTCD (which is apparently not the case).
Quote from: myosh_tino on May 14, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Yellow means "No Parking"? Really? I did not know that.
In California, here's what the curb colors mean (per CVC Sec 21458)...
RED -- No Parking (ever)
YELLOW -- Loading Zone
WHITE -- Loading Zone or Depositing Mail
GREEN -- Short Term Parking (generally 30 minutes of less)
BLUE -- Handicapped Parking
Although loading zones can be either yellow or white, yellow is more common. I find it fascinating that curb colors have different meanings across the country. I would have thought someone would have tried to standardized these markings to eliminate any ambiguity (although posted signs would remove any ambiguity).
Washington and Oregon follows that, but most of the time, the curb is uncolored and has signs.
Kansas law doesn't seem to say anything at all about curb colors. It only gives reference to 'official signs'.
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_8/Article_15/#8-1571 (http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_8/Article_15/#8-1571)
California is the only state that consistently colors almost every curb if the curb is regulated.
I didn't think the MUTCD specified all curb colors, but I did think they at least discussed the use of yellow. I was unaware that the discussion recommended against yellow, though.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 15, 2012, 10:24:27 AM
I seem to recall in NYC (the one place I regularly needed to go out of my way to find parking), the trick was to take any spot that wasn't near a hydrant or signed as NO PARKING.
Pretty much, although yellow curbs are also fairly common here.
Quote from: formulanone on May 14, 2012, 08:51:47 PM
The red zone is for loading and unloading...
"No, the white zone is for loading of passengers and there is no stopping in a red zone..."
Yellow is no parking here in Florida also. I seem to recall somewhere (Texas?) that used red to denote fire lanes in parking lots.
Up in Indiana, or at least at Purdue, loading zones were yellow and white striped curbs.
Now in which states do yellow (or red, green, purble, glow-in-the-dark, etc.) curbs have actual legal status? I've never really seen them without parking restriction signs or in situations where parking is otherwise illegal (hydrants, driveways, near corners). I'd be interested to know if the yellow paint in a location that would otherwise be unrestricted actually matters.
Quote from: realjd on May 15, 2012, 10:09:24 PM
Yellow is no parking here in Florida also. I seem to recall somewhere (Texas?) that used red to denote fire lanes in parking lots.
Up in Indiana, or at least at Purdue, loading zones were yellow and white striped curbs.
Now in which states do yellow (or red, green, purble, glow-in-the-dark, etc.) curbs have actual legal status? I've never really seen them without parking restriction signs or in situations where parking is otherwise illegal (hydrants, driveways, near corners). I'd be interested to know if the yellow paint in a location that would otherwise be unrestricted actually matters.
I've been wrong in this thread, but I think any place you see a yellow curb in NJ is no parking. Usually they do go along with signs - no one's really trying to trap people into getting tickets. The curb color helps to define the extent of the rule when signs are ambiguous or not able to be posted at the start of the rule.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
In Oklahoma you tend to only see painted curbs in private parking lots, and they're usually red (but I think I've seen yellow). On actual streets I don't think curbs are painted at all; parking restrictions are posted on signs.
I specifically remembered to look at this when I went to work the other day and my workplace's parking lot uses red
and yellow curbs. Yellow seemed to be mostly used around rounded corners and crosswalks, but there was one curb next to the building that changed colors from red to yellow at some arbitrary point, and I couldn't really tell what was different there, other than the shuttle buses sometimes park in that area.
Then again, my workplace isn't known for having management make logical decisions (they paved the parking lot in January, and thus are currently having to pave it again), and they have at least one 12" stop sign with compressed Arial (and a few 12" by 8"ish speed limit signs in the same font that football jerseys use) so who the fuck knows what's going on in the Outside Maintenance department.
Curb paint? Inconsistent in Illinois. Some places use more of it than others, but even then, it tends to be neglected. Of course, in winter, you'll never see the curb paint anyway. We're more likely to use signage to mark loading zones, no parking zones, etc. Signage has the advantage of sticking out over the snow piled on the curb.
Quote from: Steve on May 15, 2012, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: realjd on May 15, 2012, 10:09:24 PM
Yellow is no parking here in Florida also. I seem to recall somewhere (Texas?) that used red to denote fire lanes in parking lots.
Up in Indiana, or at least at Purdue, loading zones were yellow and white striped curbs.
Now in which states do yellow (or red, green, purble, glow-in-the-dark, etc.) curbs have actual legal status? I've never really seen them without parking restriction signs or in situations where parking is otherwise illegal (hydrants, driveways, near corners). I'd be interested to know if the yellow paint in a location that would otherwise be unrestricted actually matters.
I've been wrong in this thread, but I think any place you see a yellow curb in NJ is no parking. Usually they do go along with signs - no one's really trying to trap people into getting tickets. The curb color helps to define the extent of the rule when signs are ambiguous or not able to be posted at the start of the rule.
We normally have signs in Virginia, too, and normally they're posted every so often along the yellow curb ("No Parking or Standing/Fire Lane," sometimes with an arrow and sometimes without). The sign I posted in the other thread is something newer that I've only seen in a few places, namely the entrance to certain neighborhoods within the larger planned community where I live. But not all neighborhoods have those–on my street, for example, we have the more conventional signs posted every so often. I can certainly see why in a suburban residential area they might prefer to have a single sign at the entrance to a neighborhood, or at the beginning of a street, rather than multiple signs up and down the side. The added signs aren't the most eye-pleasing thing out there and it's more expensive to post additional signs. (Before anyone says it, yes, I realize that in cities there are signs all over, but I think it's fair to suggest that this is one of many differences between city and suburb.)
But I suppose this whole discussion does underscore the benefit of using some sorts of signs. If curb color meanings do differ around the country, then it's best not to assume people know what they mean.
BTW, here is the picture I posted in the other thread that prompted this whole discussion, just in case someone reading this thread didn't see it. The original context was that I was objecting to the misspelling of "Fire Lanes" as a single word when it's properly two words. ("Or" is spelled properly on the sign. I just took the photo at a dumb angle as I was driving past.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2F2c3f4e45.jpg&hash=c0c94b193047b520cbe8a45507a32395d7a8b66f)
I object to the hydrant being on the opposite side from the designated fire lane and having no painted curb next to it.
From what I recall in the Puget Sound area:
Yellow = Loading zone and/or No parking during certain times
Red = No parking ever
Seattle uses alternating red/yellow to mark bus stops, which is no parking ever unless otherwise posted. (Certain bus stops have a sign posted along with the bus stop sign that says No Parking 7AM-6PM or similar, but most are 24/7 no parking zones.)
I think generally speaking though, a good rule of thumb is:
Any color = Read the sign.
Quote from: Steve on May 16, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
I object to the hydrant being on the opposite side from the designated fire lane and having no painted curb next to it.
Missed that before... good catch, and awfully good point!
Quote from: Steve on May 16, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
I object to the hydrant being on the opposite side from the designated fire lane and having no painted curb next to it.
I suppose the rejoinder would be that it's always illegal (at least in Virginia it is) to park on the hydrant regardless of whether it's been designated a fire lane.
I'll have to drive through there again to see if both sides of that street are designated as a fire lane further down past the first driveway. Most of the residential streets in our community have both sides designated as fire lanes, although as I mentioned somewhere before that doesn't seem to stop some people from parking there if they want. More common is people who don't park in their garage and then try to fit an extra car in the driveway by parking across the sidewalk.
My problem with curb colors (California here) is that they are almost impossible to see at night, and seem to be rarely repainted. Can't tell you how many times I've parked somewhere for a concert or something in San Francisco only to get out and see faded/chipped red or yellow paint that was practically invisible while driving.. Signs, please.