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Regional Boards => Great Lakes and Ohio Valley => Topic started by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 17, 2012, 11:20:36 PM

Title: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 17, 2012, 11:20:36 PM
Couldn't they come up with a better name than 'Super Intersections?'  :paranoid:
http://video.nbc4i.com/v/56555825/super-street-intersection.htm?q=intersection (http://video.nbc4i.com/v/56555825/super-street-intersection.htm?q=intersection)

(In case the link goes away, this concerns an intersection along US 33 between Canal Winchester and Lancaster [SE of Columbus])
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Zmapper on May 17, 2012, 11:44:02 PM
The link redirected me to MySpace somehow, with no back-button visible (because I opened it in a new tab, but normally if a site redirects a back button is visible). Did anyone else have this problem?
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: NE2 on May 17, 2012, 11:51:27 PM
Er? It's a superstreet. Nothing new.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: JREwing78 on May 18, 2012, 08:44:44 AM
Certainly an improvement over what's there now, but a poor fit for a rural highway that's long overdue for a full freeway conversion.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: mgk920 on May 18, 2012, 11:46:40 AM
Isn't that more correctly called a 'Michigan Left™' (or was that a somewhat 'unPC' name for that in central Ohio)?

Mike
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Compulov on May 18, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
That thing looks like the child of the michigan left and an at-grade SPUI. While I've rarely encountered one, I thought michigan lefts let you still go straight through the intersection.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: mgk920 on May 18, 2012, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: Compulov on May 18, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
That thing looks like the child of the michigan left and an at-grade SPUI. While I've rarely encountered one, I thought michigan lefts let you still go straight through the intersection.

My belief is that they generally do allow for straight-across cross traffic, but IMHO, the hallmarks of the Michigan Left™ are the U-turns that are set back at either end on the main roadway.

Mike
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2012, 02:17:03 PM
superstreet.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Brandon on May 18, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
It's a modified Michigan Left.  Of course, they'd be mortified in Columbus to actually call it that.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Anthony_JK on May 18, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
Looks more like what they call a "3/4th" intersection to me.

Most Michigan Lefts allow for through cross traffic to go straight through. Maybe the ADT values aren't high enough, for if they were, then maybe a CFI or traditional intesection with twin left turn lanes would be better.

Then again, if this roadway is better suited for a freeway upgrade, then maybe a SPUI or DDI??


Anthony
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: JREwing78 on May 19, 2012, 07:35:08 AM
I've seen Michigan use Michigan Lefts that didn't allow cross-traffic through (M-59 around Milford is one example). I don't believe I've ever seen them use this particular arrangement, where there's two sets of left turns on each side.

In the video, the ODOT representative admits this was meant to be a cheaper alternative to a full interchange that still improved safety. He estimated $5-$8 million for this v.s. $60 milllion for the interchange. Never mind that one mile away is a full interchange for old US-33, and a full freeway bypass of Lancaster. The road is either controlled-access 4-lane or freeway all the way to I-70 in Columbus.

I could understand the cheap alternative if this road carried 15,000 - 25,000 vehicles per day, but the ODOT representative claims 48,000 vpd. In some places, this stretch would be crying for not only a full freeway conversion but also a widening to 3 lanes each way.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: kphoger on May 19, 2012, 11:56:05 AM
Again, it's a "Super-Street Median Crossover" intersection, not a "Super Intersection", and it's not exactly new.  The FHWA's informational guide on them is from 2004.  http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/04091/10.cfm#c1025 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/04091/10.cfm#c1025)
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: froggie on May 20, 2012, 09:42:24 AM
Not a Michigan Left.  Different concept.

NCDOT calls it Superstreet.  MnDOT calls it a "Reduced Conflict Intersection" (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy52cannonfalls/index.html)...basically a 3/4 Intersection with U-turns added on the end....what MnDOT normally terms a 3/4 Intersection doesn't include the U-turns.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Brandon on May 20, 2012, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2012, 09:42:24 AM
Not a Michigan Left.  Different concept.

NCDOT calls it Superstreet.  MnDOT calls it a "Reduced Conflict Intersection" (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy52cannonfalls/index.html)...basically a 3/4 Intersection with U-turns added on the end....what MnDOT normally terms a 3/4 Intersection doesn't include the U-turns.


Adam, call it what you want, but it is a modified form of Michigan Left.  Take a drive down Eight Mile or Telegraph, and some of the driveways and minor street intersections are set up similarly.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2012, 03:30:09 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2012, 03:10:25 PM
Adam, call it what you want, but it is a modified form of Michigan Left.

It's not just what he calls it.  It's what it's called.  By the FHWA.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/04091/10.cfm#c1025 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/04091/10.cfm#c1025)
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: empirestate on May 20, 2012, 04:16:41 PM
I assume there would be No Turn on Red from the side street onto the main highway?

And yes, I'm sure this is not a new concept, but then how often do you see news stories like this every time a modern roundabout is proposed somewhere, as if it's the latest new thing? And they still always manage to gather vox pops from people who have no idea how to navigate one...
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: hobsini2 on May 22, 2012, 06:39:10 PM
So instead of 1 signal to control traffic, there will be up to 3 signals that someone would have to go through on the lesser street. DUMB!
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: froggie on May 22, 2012, 08:25:24 PM
Nice thing about this configuration is that it reduces the need to meet signal warrants.  All of the examples I'm familiar with (in MD and NC) are unsignalized, though I believe there are a few signalized ones in NC.

Furthermore, the signals can be more easily coordinated, and you're in effect only dealing with 2 signals for the "side street through movement" instead of the 3 feared by hobsini.
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 22, 2012, 09:57:18 PM
According to the report/article, I linked above, Ohio already has one of this style of intersections built in Butler Co (north of Cincy).
Title: Re: There is no reason to fear....SUPER Intersection is here
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 22, 2012, 10:45:53 PM
Crappy idea, and whether or not it's truly a Michigan Left, it doesn't really look that safe to me at all.


I've seen plenty of instances in Florida where some developer builds a shopping center, and the first thing FDOT does is give them permission to have a channelized left-turn lane, even though it may not be the safest place for it.