(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F03%2FRechtschreibreformBeiStrassennamen.jpg%2F220px-RechtschreibreformBeiStrassennamen.jpg&hash=307a41be0fe6fc300bd293c5df8d4809c7c3820a)
what does this mean? I saw this a lot in Italy, and here is a German example. My guess was "obey sign when traffic light is entirely unlit". correct?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
what does this mean? I saw this a lot in Italy, and here is a German example. My guess was "obey sign when traffic light is entirely unlit". correct?
That's what I always heard. The traffic signals in Germany are typically turned off at night in situations where we in the States would use flash mode.
Yep. In the Netherlands the traffic lights would flash orange, and the signs and road markings (shark's teeth) then indicate the priority situation. It's basically a back-up if the traffic lights are out of order.
Interesting. And to contrast, a yield sign with a traffic signal in Indiana and Ohio means that the right turn can yield on red without stopping. Granted, the right turn is channelized, but it is at a signal.
Quote from: rawmustard on June 11, 2012, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
what does this mean? I saw this a lot in Italy, and here is a German example. My guess was "obey sign when traffic light is entirely unlit". correct?
That's what I always heard. The traffic signals in Germany are typically turned off at night in situations where we in the States would use flash mode.
Many urban areas in Finland will set the signal to flash amber in
all four directions late at night, and then the "yield to the vehicle on the right" rule will apply.
Yepper - 'Signs govern when signals are dark'. Also, for the 'priority' streets at those intersections, there is a sign that does not exist in North America that means 'you have priority', it is a mid-sized yellow square with a white border and is mounted diamond-style.
I often wish that this all existed in North America as it seems to me that more and more these days modern-day drivers here are completely clueless as to how to handle a stop-and-go light that is completely dark (power failure, etc).
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on June 11, 2012, 10:02:30 PM
I often wish that this all existed in North America as it seems to me that more and more these days modern-day drivers here are completely clueless as to how to handle a stop-and-go light that is completely dark (power failure, etc).
I was only guessing at the meaning when I was in Italy; I thought to myself "okay, everyone else is going through the green light with stop sign ... that implies either green light supersedes, or they're Italian drivers!"
in the US - no matter how well you may know the less rarely invoked laws of your state, you're bound to run into someone who doesn't. I treat a failed light as a four-way stop, but not many do. so it usually ends up a "stop and yield to other traffic" for me.
Quote from: mgk920 on June 11, 2012, 10:02:30 PM
Yepper - 'Signs govern when signals are dark'. Also, for the 'priority' streets at those intersections, there is a sign that does not exist in North America that means 'you have priority', it is a mid-sized yellow square with a white border and is mounted diamond-style.
That is an excellent sign, and one that I wish were implemented in the
MUTCD, but probably never will be.
From the Swedish Transport Board's site (http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vag/Vagmarken/) are these.
Sign informing drives that they are on a "main" or "priority" road (
huvudled in Swedish).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FVajningspliktsmarken%2FB4%2FB4-1%2Fladdahem%2FB4-1.png&hash=db842a4b38c9031a26219f620ca403ca6cf10f58)
End of
huvudled:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FVajningspliktsmarken%2FB5%2FB5-1%2Fladdahem%2FB5-1.png&hash=cb57851380fd7691c08937b9f06995a89057056e)
I also like the "entering urbanized area" sign:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE5%2FE5-1%2Fladdahem%2FE5-1.png&hash=6f4c02b6e7f7a4a3e0dde14b06fe054e05941542)
And "leaving urbanized area:"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE6%2FE6-1%2Fladdahem%2FE6-1.png&hash=1a20174f230df7fc83adc52cb00f00f9e8ab9588)
Quote from: mgk920 on June 11, 2012, 10:02:30 PMI often wish that this all existed in North America as it seems to me that more and more these days modern-day drivers here are completely clueless as to how to handle a stop-and-go light that is completely dark (power failure, etc).
Mike
For far too many drivers in various parts of the U.S., a dark signal means "go" and "screw the other drivers needing to cross this intersection."
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 12, 2012, 12:32:34 PM
Sign informing drives that they are on a "main" or "priority" road (huvudled in Swedish).
the concept of a "priority road" is, I believe, completely foreign to North American drivers. we instead use an explicit set of traffic control devices at all intersections. a changeover would be quite jarring.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2012, 10:54:38 PM
in the US - no matter how well you may know the less rarely invoked laws of your state, you're bound to run into someone who doesn't. I treat a failed light as a four-way stop, but not many do. so it usually ends up a "stop and yield to other traffic" for me.
For better or worse, in NJ, a broken light becomes "if you know the area, you know which street is supposed to be the minor one, and the major one keeps going. if you don't know the area, look stupid until someone honks"
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 12, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
the concept of a "priority road" is, I believe, completely foreign to North American drivers. we instead use an explicit set of traffic control devices at all intersections. a changeover would be quite jarring.
We have a great concept of priority road. It's defined as "whatever road I'm currently driving on"!
Whenever we have hurricanes here and the power goes out for extended periods of time, the media is very vocal about treating broken lights as 4-way stops and most people comply. The problem is that, people being dumb and incapable of thinking for themselves, they'll also stop at lights in flashing yellow mode because they think it's "broken".
Quote from: realjd on June 14, 2012, 11:39:06 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 12, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
the concept of a "priority road" is, I believe, completely foreign to North American drivers. we instead use an explicit set of traffic control devices at all intersections. a changeover would be quite jarring.
We have a great concept of priority road. It's defined as "whatever road I'm currently driving on"!
Whenever we have hurricanes here and the power goes out for extended periods of time, the media is very vocal about treating broken lights as 4-way stops and most people comply. The problem is that, people being dumb and incapable of thinking for themselves, they'll also stop at lights in flashing yellow mode because they think it's "broken".
If I may add, emergency signals to that list, as well.
Found this in S Pittsburg, TN last week:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2FBrian5561%2FTN%2520sign%2520errors%2FTNTrip2012SLR091.jpg&hash=f38ce484d0fff09465e3f0180eb260ca56014528)
Talk about incompotence!
I saw those in California when I was a kid (through early 60s). (This reply refers to same intersection, not necessarily same signal post). It was generally understood according to my parents that the signal, if operational, trumped the stop sign. Not that dark signals were so common as to warrant this.
Parts of Missouri have this. The STOP signs are folded and padlocked until needed.
Quote from: US71 on June 27, 2012, 10:00:14 PM
Parts of Missouri have this. The STOP signs are folded and padlocked until needed.
Same thing here in Illinois.
I was always taught the priority is: officer, sign, lights.
Officer directing traffic always trumps any other device. The sign is next. And lastly, if nothing else, the red light/green light dictate movement.
In America a flashing yellow means "proceed with caution." In Europe a flashing yellow means "obey the sign." One of the first things you learn driving in Europe.
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 02, 2012, 05:08:31 AM
I was always taught the priority is: officer, sign, lights.
Officer directing traffic always trumps any other device. The sign is next. And lastly, if nothing else, the red light/green light dictate movement.
I would say lights trump signs, in the event that the flip signs go down but the lights are on regulating traffic. I've seen the signs inadvertently unfolded.
Quote from: Steve on July 02, 2012, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 02, 2012, 05:08:31 AM
I was always taught the priority is: officer, sign, lights.
Officer directing traffic always trumps any other device. The sign is next. And lastly, if nothing else, the red light/green light dictate movement.
I would say lights trump signs, in the event that the flip signs go down but the lights are on regulating traffic. I've seen the signs inadvertently unfolded.
In much of Europe, as mentioned above, it is 'cop, signals, signs'.
Mike