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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM

Title: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
What are some signs you think are the least effective / don't tell useful information? Or signs that seem like in a good idea, but in the end... could be lived without. This thread isn't about how we should all petition the government that signs are bad or good... just a time to share your thoughts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_the_United_States

Here's my list of ones that I just don't find helpful... heck didn't know the meaning to until I began driving.

"Keep Right" sign. Used typically on large roads that have a median(s) at intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R4-7.svg ...this related sign too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W6-1.svg
I think it's fairly obvious of which side of the median to be on. Wrong way + Do Not enter signs are used in places where such a mishap can happen.

And the three last signs I'm not a fan of are used for merging onto freeways.

"Merge" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W4-1.svg ...seemingly helpful sign, but on the same token... one thinks "no crap" when merging.

"Right lane ends or road narrows" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W4-2.svg I see this sign A LOT, but I don't like the graphic. The merge lane ends, not the right lane of the freeway. I think the diagonal "merging" part should be dashed and the real right lane should be solid up until hit hits the dashed diagonal merge lane. And the rest of the right lane up to the top will be dashed too.

"Added Lane" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W4-3.svg this is a decent sign, and actually the most helpful of the bunch imo. Knowing the lane you're in isn't ending and that you don't need to be worrying about looking on the road for a place to merge is nice.

I don't want to complain too much about other countries signs too much, but I know Europe has some pretty obnoxious merge signs. Really large, can actually be in the way of viewing the motorway when entering.

So what are your personal choices / thoughts on what I have to say?
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: bulkyorled on July 02, 2012, 05:23:47 AM
I agree that the Keep Right sign is basically useless. Duh keep right.
No Standing is a bit useless in my opinion. It works as a White curb but generally should just be No Parking since people decide to park there all the time.
Rumble strips? Why do we need a sign for that

Ive never actually seen any of those "DEAF CHILD" or whatever signs before except for the Children at Play, although I'm sure that also wouldn't stop people from blasting through the area or not pay attention.

But I like the merging ones you mentioned. It can be pretty obvious most of the time but every once and a while I come by a spot where it isnt so obvious and its a good notice haha
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: colinstu on July 02, 2012, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: bulkyorled on July 02, 2012, 05:23:47 AM
No Standing is a bit useless in my opinion.

I like the idea of it, but in the end... most people don't even know what "No Standing" means. A&E's Parking Wars demonstrates this cluelessness pretty well, and I'm sure Philly and Detroit aren't the only cities with this problem.

Quote from: bulkyorled on July 02, 2012, 05:23:47 AM
Ive never actually seen any of those "DEAF CHILD" or whatever signs before except for the Children at Play, although I'm sure that also wouldn't stop people from blasting through the area or not pay attention.

I've actually seen a couple of these signs in south side Milwaukee. I don't know of the process which one needs to go through to get one of these signs... but once they're put up they aren't taken down automatically. Can get kinda rusty... I'm sure the "child" has grown up there and is long moved out. I'd link them but I find them completely by coincidence and don't make a note of where they are exactly.

Another favorite of mine is a random "CAUTION" sign http://goo.gl/maps/v0qR

THE HECK?! xD Looks like it was put up over a decade ago when this area was going through an overhaul and it was never taken down. Caution what?! there's nothing to be cautious about really.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: roadfro on July 02, 2012, 07:28:13 AM
Quote from: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
"Keep Right" sign. Used typically on large roads that have a median(s) at intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R4-7.svg ...this related sign too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W6-1.svg
I think it's fairly obvious of which side of the median to be on. Wrong way + Do Not enter signs are used in places where such a mishap can happen.

The regulatory sign in the first link is not necessarily related to the warning sign of the second link.

The regulatory (graphic "keep right") is meant to be used to guide traffic to the right of a median or obstruction. I would agree it tends to get overused in fairly obvious situations.

The warning sign is a "begin divided highway" sign, intended to warn that a highway splits to a divided status usually after a long stretch of no median.


Quote
"Right lane ends or road narrows" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W4-2.svg I see this sign A LOT, but I don't like the graphic. The merge lane ends, not the right lane of the freeway. I think the diagonal "merging" part should be dashed and the real right lane should be solid up until hit hits the dashed diagonal merge lane. And the rest of the right lane up to the top will be dashed too.

This sign is not a "road narrows" sign...It is a lane ends sign. Slight difference.

A lane ends sign isn't restricted to use in ramp merging situations, but any time a lane ends. You have to remember with this sign that it's depicting the roadway as being between the two thick lines (forming the edge of the road) and it's showing the road narrowing by the width of a lane with a merge distance. This sign used to confuse me when I was younger, and the addition of the dashed lane line helped clarify the meaning. Although I always thought it should have been depicted showing the road surface as black (essentially inverting the colors).




I was immediately thinking of "No Standing" as well. Who actually knows what this means, anyway? We had a topic about discussing the differences a while ago, and I still can't explain the difference...

A plain diamond "Caution" is also irritating. What am I to be cautious of?

Another pet peeve is the "Left Turn Signal" sign, which should be completely unnecessary -- so the DOT or other agencies need to actually use left turn arrows so this one can go away.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: 1995hoo on July 02, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
"Reduced Speed Ahead." It's grammatically incorrect, for one–it's the speed LIMIT that's reduced ahead, not the "speed," especially given that most drivers ignore the lower limit on many roads. North Carolina's variant reading "Reduce Speed Ahead" is much better. But aside from that, when I see either version my reaction is, "So what's the new speed limit?" I much prefer the newer Canadian-inspired yellow warning signs that show what the speed limit will be up ahead.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: bulkyorled on July 02, 2012, 07:56:35 AM
QuoteI like the idea of it, but in the end... most people don't even know what "No Standing" means. A&E's Parking Wars demonstrates this cluelessness pretty well, and I'm sure Philly and Detroit aren't the only cities with this problem.

Exactly what I was thinking but I mentioned Parking Wars and got my head chewed off about it.  :no: No Standing must be near non-existant in California & Nevada.
It seems easier to put a No Stopping Anytime sign or actually marking the curb white. Its not unheard of. I see white curbs pretty often now. I dont think there were nearly as many before as there are now around these parts.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: NE2 on July 02, 2012, 08:46:53 AM
"No Parking on Pavement or Parkway". These are all over the Orlando area.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: blawp on July 02, 2012, 11:44:19 AM
END LANDSCAPING / BEGIN LANDSCAPING comes to mind.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: formulanone on July 02, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
Not to sound like a daredevil, but this a vague pairing for which a 20mph right turn arrow would have sufficed:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15467434967_fa195e1643_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pyNDxe)

I know, they're old...but more cryptic than useful, since there's all sorts of slow dangers that exist.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 01:46:14 PM
anything detailing the exact number of dollars used for a construction project, ARRA/Tiger signs, "end construction" followed 0.2 miles later with "begin construction", etc... etc...

any sign (usually a VMS) that tells me to fasten my seatbelt, keep myself from driving drunk, and report all dirty Mexicans to the TSA, or just kill them myself...

but the worst, however, is "slow down! my Comic Sans works here!"
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Alex on July 02, 2012, 03:25:56 PM
Any variant of the "congested area" type signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama010/i-010_eb_exit_025_02.jpg)

(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/north_carolina026/i-026_wb_exit_033_05.jpg)

(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images405/i-405_nb_exit_063a_04.jpg)

(https://www.aaroads.com/west/oregon097/us-097_sb_at_chiloquin.jpg)

(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/336023_10151001117542948_532966671_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: myosh_tino on July 02, 2012, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: Alex on July 02, 2012, 03:25:56 PM
Any variant of the "congested area" type signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images405/i-405_nb_exit_063a_04.jpg)
I would think that warning sign could be useful because those on 405 doing 65-70 MPH over the pass should be aware of the potential for stopped traffic at the bottom of the hill at the 405-101 interchange.

On the other hand, 405 is so congested, there probably aren't many cars going 65-70 MPH which I guess would render this sign kind of useless.  :)
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 03:46:34 PM
similarly, at the Calexico East US border entry point, there are signs that say ...

speed limit 10 (maybe at 4am on Christmas morning?  probably not even then.)

and even worse:

no stopping!  :pan:
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: kphoger on July 02, 2012, 05:36:23 PM
México has signs that read:

Ceda el paso a vehículos sin frenos = Give way to vehicles without brakes.  Well, yeah, did I really need a sign to tell me that?  (It's used in mountainous areas where a truck's brakes might give out)

No prenda fuego sobre el pavimento = Don't build a fire on the pavement.  There was a custom to alert motorists of a broken-down car by building a small fire (à la road flares, I guess), and this sign is a carryover from that.  It's funny to see it on a freeway, though.

The sign I most common dismiss is Slippery When Wet.  In wet conditions, I choose my speed based on my tires' actual performance on the wet pavement, not on the presence or absence of a yellow sign.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: shadyjay on July 02, 2012, 07:01:27 PM
Here's my nomination:

https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/connecticut050/i-091_nb_exit_008_01.jpg

(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/connecticut050/i-091_nb_exit_008_01.jpg)

I-91 NB in New Haven CT
(there's also one on I-91 SB in Wallingford CT)

Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: bjrush on July 02, 2012, 07:16:23 PM
Bridge may ice in cold weather...on every single bridge...
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Brandon on July 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 02, 2012, 07:16:23 PM
Bridge may ice in cold weather...on every single bridge...

Especially silly in Midwestern states where snow is present at sometime during the winter.

Another candidate is that European-system "!" sign.  WTF does that mean!?!  Name the hazard or show it in a pictogram, folks.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:18:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PMAnother candidate is that European-system "!" sign.  WTF does that mean!?!  Name the hazard or show it in a pictogram, folks.

In the field it is invariably used with a supplementary plate which identifies the specific hazard.  Most countries' traffic signing regulations actually forbid it to be used otherwise.

A classic example of a useless road sign is "Accident black spot" (no specific hazard named)--in Britain it is both banned and actively discouraged, but it used to be used fairly extensively in Ireland, and is a standard sign in some continental European countries, such as the Czech Republic.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: US71 on July 02, 2012, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 02, 2012, 07:16:23 PM
Bridge may ice in cold weather...on every single bridge...

Now it's Bridge Ices Before Road
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:18:37 PM"Accident black spot"

I had never heard of this.  I googled it.  I can't say I've ever seen such a sign, in any European country... not even the Czech Republic, though I have been there only briefly as an adult.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: US71 on July 02, 2012, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:18:37 PM"Accident black spot"

I had never heard of this.  I googled it.  I can't say I've ever seen such a sign, in any European country... not even the Czech Republic, though I have been there only briefly as an adult.

South Dakota has X Marks the Spot noting fatality accidents.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:18:37 PM"Accident black spot"

I had never heard of this.  I googled it.  I can't say I've ever seen such a sign, in any European country... not even the Czech Republic, though I have been there only briefly as an adult.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't find any Google hits--at a minimum you should have found, for example, the minutes from the UNECE traffic signing committee dealing with their effort (about ten years ago) to find out what their member states' policies were with regard to signing for accident black spots.  ("Black spot" might be written as a closed compound, so "accident blackspot" might turn up more relevant hits.)

I travelled fairly extensively in Ireland in the summer of 1999, at a time when the country had probably less than one-tenth the motorway mileage it does now.  At the time the Irish motorway network was limited to the M25 around Dublin on the west side plus the M1 Monasterboice and Drogheda bypasses plus the M7 Naas bypass.  Most of the through roads, including the vast majority of the National Primary (N1-N25) mileage, was therefore two-lane in varying stages of improvement.  There were many "ACCIDENT BLACK SPOT" warning diamonds (English only, of course, despite the general requirement for bilingualism) on these roads.  More rarely, the warning diamond appeared with just a huge black dot (no word message).
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Compulov on July 02, 2012, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
"Reduced Speed Ahead." It's grammatically incorrect, for one—it's the speed LIMIT that's reduced ahead, not the "speed," especially given that most drivers ignore the lower limit on many roads. North Carolina's variant reading "Reduce Speed Ahead" is much better. But aside from that, when I see either version my reaction is, "So what's the new speed limit?" I much prefer the newer Canadian-inspired yellow warning signs that show what the speed limit will be up ahead.
I *much* prefer that newer variant of this sign. This way you know exactly what you're getting into. Reduced speed ahead is too vague. Am I going from a 50 zone to 25 (not unheard of), or just 45 to 40? This example from Allentown, NJ sticks with me: http://goo.gl/maps/4rNC

Edit: Fixed a change of thought in mid sentence :P
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
I mean, I did find google hits - it's just that I'd never seen such a sign in the wild in Europe.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Kacie Jane on July 02, 2012, 09:10:36 PM
Quote from: Compulov on July 02, 2012, 09:00:08 PM
I *much* that newer variant of this sign. This way you know exactly what you're getting into. Reduced speed ahead is too vague. Am I going from a 50 zone to 25 (not unheard of), or just 45 to 40? This example from Allentown, NJ sticks with me: http://goo.gl/maps/4rNC

You accidentally a verb there. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-accidentally)

But yes, I much it as well.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: relaxok on July 02, 2012, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: bulkyorled on July 02, 2012, 05:23:47 AM
I agree that the Keep Right sign is basically useless. Duh keep right.

These signs have saved me many times, especially at night in complicated intersections in places I've never been before - sometimes it's not clear which 'opening' to turn into especially when it's not full of cars already.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: national highway 1 on July 02, 2012, 09:40:52 PM
Never seen a forklift pictogram before (it's supposed to be golden yellow):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2FP1250011r.jpg&hash=58df8fc80c23ea37df1c718167fd29135f5aa33e)
True, but really?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2FP3080092r.jpg&hash=41eb9c68cd721c125b7c1716870dc9648a4fa963)
Umm, where do you want to go now?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fthumbs%2Ftn_P6300037.jpg&hash=f6d1508ff082834f00a398cdd3b7f547d4801274)
Kangaroo chasing emu, Wilsons Promontory, Victoria
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2FPb100007.jpg&hash=153837483c7e41242f4645460b71f687a2413f63)
Don't understand these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2Fsealedroad.jpg&hash=2801f380b1cc38452e770f397d755ada59680493)
Skiing kangaroo? (Blue Mountains, west of Sydney)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2Fskiingkangaroo.jpg&hash=64fa3726a7bad0a333e01ea306c9c05f0fd66a1d)
Really?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2Fleaves.jpg&hash=6d9d4c3a9cecbe79d0b898037c66274dc6c3ccca)
Beware of car-eating cattle! (Queensland)  :happy: :coffee:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vagabondish.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsign-beware-car-eating-cattle-queensland-2339539399.jpg&hash=cc905b4912b3516b2a92175210526979f67f9d0c)
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Kacie Jane on July 02, 2012, 10:43:17 PM
Unique to be sure, but I don't really see how most of those are "useless".

Forklift crossing: could have just used a generic "slow vehicles crossing" sign, but definitely useful.
Intersection sign:  If you turn right at the intersection, beware, as there's another somewhat-blind intersection immediately afterwards
Kangaroo chasing emu: amusing, but presumably it's just meant as a wildlife warning -- kangaroos and emus may be crossing the roadway ahead, not necessarily in any particular order
The sealed road signs: Definitely useful.  The pavement ends, and the gravel road ahead becomes muddy and impassible in poor weather.
Leaves on road: Perhaps the road isn't maintained frequently enough to clear the leaves.  Driving on wet leaves is certainly not very fun.
Beware of cow: Not sure why the fancy sign was necessary as opposed to a regular diamond.  But yes, definitely a good idea to beware of cows on the roadway.

But I have no idea what's going on with the skiing kangaroo.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Scott5114 on July 02, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
Probably a regular kangaroo sign that someone modified. Around here people like to stick hula hoop stickers on pedestrian signs, for instance.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 02, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
Probably a regular kangaroo sign that someone modified. Around here people like to stick hula hoop stickers on pedestrian signs, for instance.

deer signs as well.

deer signs also get a red dot on the nose.

no, I've never seen a pedestrian with a red dot.  I should go make one.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Kacie Jane on July 02, 2012, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 02, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
Probably a regular kangaroo sign that someone modified. Around here people like to stick hula hoop stickers on pedestrian signs, for instance.

Not sure how I didn't think of that.  Even in the blurry photo, you can tell that the ski pole is a different shade of black than the kangaroo.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: 1995hoo on July 03, 2012, 07:28:26 AM
Quote from: Compulov on July 02, 2012, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
"Reduced Speed Ahead." It's grammatically incorrect, for one–it's the speed LIMIT that's reduced ahead, not the "speed," especially given that most drivers ignore the lower limit on many roads. North Carolina's variant reading "Reduce Speed Ahead" is much better. But aside from that, when I see either version my reaction is, "So what's the new speed limit?" I much prefer the newer Canadian-inspired yellow warning signs that show what the speed limit will be up ahead.
I *much* prefer that newer variant of this sign. This way you know exactly what you're getting into. Reduced speed ahead is too vague. Am I going from a 50 zone to 25 (not unheard of), or just 45 to 40? This example from Allentown, NJ sticks with me: http://goo.gl/maps/4rNC

Edit: Fixed a change of thought in mid sentence :P

Agreed completely. When I posted that I was thinking of a speed limit drop from 70 to 55 on northbound I-85 approaching Greensboro in the 1990s (before the re-routing; don't know if it's still the same), but I didn't mention a specific example because I figured someone could think of a more extreme one.....and indeed someone did.

I suppose I prefer even the erroneous "Reduced Speed Ahead" to no warning at all, though. Some states down South seem to omit any sort of warning on non-freeways.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Compulov on July 03, 2012, 07:51:26 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 03, 2012, 07:28:26 AM
I suppose I prefer even the erroneous "Reduced Speed Ahead" to no warning at all, though. Some states down South seem to omit any sort of warning on non-freeways.
With the local cops parked right behind the 25 mph sign... I actually mentioned Allentown because they have that reputation (not undeserved, either). Thankfully the bypass meant I never had to drive through downtown proper.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: bulkyorled on July 03, 2012, 07:59:17 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 02, 2012, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: Alex on July 02, 2012, 03:25:56 PM
Any variant of the "congested area" type signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images405/i-405_nb_exit_063a_04.jpg)
I would think that warning sign could be useful because those on 405 doing 65-70 MPH over the pass should be aware of the potential for stopped traffic at the bottom of the hill at the 405-101 interchange.

On the other hand, 405 is so congested, there probably aren't many cars going 65-70 MPH which I guess would render this sign kind of useless.  :)

I agree that the others in that set are basically useless, this one however is actually useful. Right when you're coming out of the pass the 405 speeds up until we go down the hill entering the valley and everyone slams on their breaks. Almost as if everyone notices the sign and goes OH YEA I FORGOT WE CANT GO 80.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 03, 2012, 09:49:40 AM
Quote from: bulkyorled on July 03, 2012, 07:59:17 AM

I agree that the others in that set are basically useless, this one however is actually useful. Right when you're coming out of the pass the 405 speeds up until we go down the hill entering the valley and everyone slams on their breaks. Almost as if everyone notices the sign and goes OH YEA I FORGOT WE CANT GO 80.

how is that useful? 

a lot of the time, the only reason people slow down is because they are told they can't go fast.  why not keep going 80?
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: kphoger on July 03, 2012, 10:42:02 AM
Minnesota has "Left turning traffic/Next __ miles".  Ummmm, so.....on the other 300 miles of this highway, are people only allowed to enter their driveways from the other side of the road??
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: PurdueBill on July 03, 2012, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 03, 2012, 10:42:02 AM
Minnesota has "Left turning traffic/Next __ miles".  Ummmm, so.....on the other 300 miles of this highway, are people only allowed to enter their driveways from the other side of the road??

Indiana has a "Watch For Left Turn" diamond sign (http://goo.gl/maps/WjZo) usually accompanied by a plate below with "Next X Mile".  They are usually where there are more people making left turns than on most of the road, and usually no passing blisters.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: cpzilliacus on July 03, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PM
Another candidate is that European-system "!" sign.  WTF does that mean!?!  Name the hazard or show it in a pictogram, folks.

Like this one from Sweden:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.beta.pixgallery.com%2Fimages%2Fdetail%2FX%2FZ%2FF%2FPIX-XZFAPD.jpg&hash=3df9a7dfd558f40481692d3e03526bcab542fa89)

The "I" means "other hazard" (used instead of the "!" in Sweden).

"Olycks-drabbad korsning" means "High-accident intersection."

IMO, that is useful.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: roadman on July 03, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 02, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
Probably a regular kangaroo sign that someone modified. Around here people like to stick hula hoop stickers on pedestrian signs, for instance.

deer signs as well.

deer signs also get a red dot on the nose.

no, I've never seen a pedestrian with a red dot.  I should go make one.

About twenty years ago, a new "moose crossing" graphic sign was installed on Interstate 190 in Sterling (north of Worcester).  Shortly thereafter, the sign was amended to include a squirrel as well.   As I recall, a photo of the revised sign made the front page of the Worcester Telegram and Gazette.  I also recall that, after the media attention, MassHighway crews replaced the sign within a week.

Much more common in Massachusetts are the "red nose" deer signs.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Mr. Matté on July 03, 2012, 04:15:57 PM
My posting is not of signs that are nationwide in the MUTCD, but the posting of minor/secondary/almost unsigned route shields. Unless the road actually travels a great distance and/or takes a lot of turns which may lead to driver confusion, I think it would be better off for the DOTs to save the money on posting the shields and reduce driver confusion.

Such routes would include some of Virginia's 6xx secondary routes and some of New Jersey counties' 600 county routes which may just be a long dead-end spur from a main road or minor NJ state highways that basically consist of bridges or short connector roads. For example, the new traffic lights at the intersection of Princeton-Hightstown Road (CR 571) and Cranbury Road in Princeton Junction (location (https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.317496,-74.619997&spn=0.000814,0.001742&t=h&z=20)) acknowledge the existence of NJ Route 64 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/7389394854/) even though it only consists of the railroad bridge over the NE Corridor. Especially since this is the only posting of that route out in the wild, I think it would be much better if they just sign it as P-H Road or CR 571 on the traffic light signs.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Takumi on July 03, 2012, 06:17:49 PM
^ Some counties in Virginia already don't use shields/rectangles for secondaries anymore; they just post the route number on the blade signs. Chesterfield and York are two I know of offhand.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: thenetwork on July 04, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Ohio has/had diamond yellow signs that simply said CEMETERY.  I really don't see the need for drivers to be warned of an upcoming graveyard...

...unless it's Midnight, with a full moon shining in the sky.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: kphoger on July 04, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 04, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Ohio has/had diamond yellow signs that simply said CEMETERY.  I really don't see the need for drivers to be warned of an upcoming graveyard...

...unless it's Midnight, with a full moon shining in the sky.

Huh?  Really?  Funeral processions certainly do affect traffic, and at small cemeteries it is often necessary to parallel park along the roadway.

Quote from: roadman on July 03, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Shortly thereafter, the sign was amended to include a squirrel as well.

That's not a warning:   That's a challenge!
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Special K on July 05, 2012, 08:09:54 AM
Quote from: US71 on July 02, 2012, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 02, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 02, 2012, 08:18:37 PM"Accident black spot"

I had never heard of this.  I googled it.  I can't say I've ever seen such a sign, in any European country... not even the Czech Republic, though I have been there only briefly as an adult.

South Dakota has X Marks the Spot noting fatality accidents.

They still set those out?  I remember a particularly bad one when I was in HS on US37 from Mitchell to Huron.  Almost an entire family in a head-on crash while following their daughter's bus from a basketball game.  The result was a neat line of 7 signs posted at the site.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: 1995hoo on July 05, 2012, 08:59:08 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 04, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Ohio has/had diamond yellow signs that simply said CEMETERY.  I really don't see the need for drivers to be warned of an upcoming graveyard...

...unless it's Midnight, with a full moon shining in the sky.

Last week I saw diamond yellow signs reading "CHURCH" in various places in Florida and I found them odd. Never seen that sort of sign anywhere else.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: hbelkins on July 05, 2012, 09:22:51 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2012, 08:59:08 AM
Last week I saw diamond yellow signs reading "CHURCH" in various places in Florida and I found them odd. Never seen that sort of sign anywhere else.

Kentucky uses those.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: 1995hoo on July 05, 2012, 09:39:43 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 05, 2012, 09:22:51 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2012, 08:59:08 AM
Last week I saw diamond yellow signs reading "CHURCH" in various places in Florida and I found them odd. Never seen that sort of sign anywhere else.

Kentucky uses those.

Interesting. I think part of what I found odd about it is that there seemed to be no rhyme nor reason as to when the signs were posted–sometimes they were, sometimes they weren't; sometimes they were in towns, sometimes they were on rural roads; some big churches did not have the signs posted, some very small ones did.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Eth on July 05, 2012, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on July 02, 2012, 09:40:52 PM
Don't understand these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2Fsealedroad.jpg&hash=2801f380b1cc38452e770f397d755ada59680493)

What I'd love to know is why a gravel road would have a 100 km/h speed limit!
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: national highway 1 on July 05, 2012, 08:24:45 PM
Quote from: Eth on July 05, 2012, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on July 02, 2012, 09:40:52 PM
Don't understand these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Fsigns%2Fcustom%2Fwarning%2Fimages%2Fsealedroad.jpg&hash=2801f380b1cc38452e770f397d755ada59680493)

What I'd love to know is why a gravel road would have a 100 km/h speed limit!
That's what I wanted to know, hence why I posted this pic!
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on July 05, 2012, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: Takumi on July 03, 2012, 06:17:49 PM
^ Some counties in Virginia already don't use shields/rectangles for secondaries anymore; they just post the route number on the blade signs. Chesterfield and York are two I know of offhand.

Prince William County does this on a fairly regular basis, but seemingly only at signalized intersections. Albemarle County does it everywhere.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: empirestate on July 05, 2012, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PM
Another candidate is that European-system "!" sign.  WTF does that mean!?!  Name the hazard or show it in a pictogram, folks.

I actually use that symbol often in musical scores, to alert me of some upcoming "hazard", such as a chord I always screw up, or some quick cue that comes directly after a wicked page turn. I find that no more specificity is needed; just seeing the symbol reminds me what the hazard is and to keep my senses sharp.

Not saying that necessarily works as a road sign application, but on the other hand I'd wager there are a lot of similarities to how musicians and motorists process the symbolic information they encounter constantly.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Scott5114 on July 05, 2012, 11:28:47 PM
Quote from: empirestate on July 05, 2012, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PM
Another candidate is that European-system "!" sign.  WTF does that mean!?!  Name the hazard or show it in a pictogram, folks.

I actually use that symbol often in musical scores, to alert me of some upcoming "hazard", such as a chord I always screw up, or some quick cue that comes directly after a wicked page turn. I find that no more specificity is needed; just seeing the symbol reminds me what the hazard is and to keep my senses sharp.

Not saying that necessarily works as a road sign application, but on the other hand I'd wager there are a lot of similarities to how musicians and motorists process the symbolic information they encounter constantly.

I always used to just circle the offending notes, and if that wasn't good enough, write the slide position numbers beneath (I played trombone) so that if I did begin to screw up, I could "cheat" and use the numbers to ride out the difficult part.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: realjd on July 06, 2012, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
"Keep Right" sign. Used typically on large roads that have a median(s) at intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R4-7.svg ...this related sign too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W6-1.svg
I think it's fairly obvious of which side of the median to be on. Wrong way + Do Not enter signs are used in places where such a mishap can happen.

They're particularly useful when the median is hard to see. When making left turns at an intersection, they're excellent visual cues as to where to turn your car, particularly at night.

Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: kphoger on July 06, 2012, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: realjd on July 06, 2012, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
"Keep Right" sign. Used typically on large roads that have a median(s) at intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R4-7.svg ...this related sign too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W6-1.svg
I think it's fairly obvious of which side of the median to be on. Wrong way + Do Not enter signs are used in places where such a mishap can happen.

They're particularly useful when the median is hard to see. When making left turns at an intersection, they're excellent visual cues as to where to turn your car, particularly at night.



Or when eight inches of snow fell but the snow plow hasn't come by yet.  I've actually gone down the wrong side of the roadway due to snow before; a sign would have been greatly appreciated.

Quote from: national highway 1 on July 05, 2012, 08:24:45 PM
Quote from: Eth on July 05, 2012, 07:14:35 PM
What I'd love to know is why a gravel road would have a 100 km/h speed limit!
That's what I wanted to know, hence why I posted this pic!

I've gone 100 km/h on gravel plenty of times in places like western Kansas.  If there has been rain recently, and/or if there are curves, it's too fast.  But under normal conditions, it's perfectly doable.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: flowmotion on July 07, 2012, 02:29:40 AM
CHECK HEADLIGHTS after a tunnel or a "daylight safety zone". Would it really matter if people left their headlights on?
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: empirestate on July 07, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
Quote from: flowmotion on July 07, 2012, 02:29:40 AM
CHECK HEADLIGHTS after a tunnel or a "daylight safety zone". Would it really matter if people left their headlights on?

Well, it used to be a pretty silly idea to run one's headlights during the daytime, like leaving your TV on when you left the house, so it was a nice reminder to switch them off once they weren't needed. Now, of course, the sign is often useless because one has no choice but to burn the headlights on many modern cars!
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: 1995hoo on July 07, 2012, 06:05:29 PM
I've always used headlights on two-lane roads where people pass over the center line (none of our cars have DRLs). I've found over the years that it's far easier to see an oncoming vehicle with lights on, especially in hot weather when you get that shimmering mirage effect.

But having it after every tunnel seems unnecessary to me. Plus I think drivers ought to be responsible and we don't need signs for every last thing. I mean, at the rate this country is going, soon public toilets will have signs saying "Remember to wipe after defecating."
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Kacie Jane on July 07, 2012, 11:36:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2012, 06:05:29 PM
But having it after every tunnel seems unnecessary to me. Plus I think drivers ought to be responsible and we don't need signs for every last thing. I mean, at the rate this country is going, soon public toilets will have signs saying "Remember to wipe after defecating."

We're practically there already, and have been for a while.  "Employees must wash hands."  Really?  Only employees?
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Takumi on July 07, 2012, 11:44:39 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 07, 2012, 11:36:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2012, 06:05:29 PM
But having it after every tunnel seems unnecessary to me. Plus I think drivers ought to be responsible and we don't need signs for every last thing. I mean, at the rate this country is going, soon public toilets will have signs saying "Remember to wipe after defecating."

We're practically there already, and have been for a while.  "Employees must wash hands."  Really?  Only employees?

Caution: coffee is hot.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: flowmotion on July 09, 2012, 03:01:38 AM
Quote from: empirestate on July 07, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
Well, it used to be a pretty silly idea to run one's headlights during the daytime, like leaving your TV on when you left the house, so it was a nice reminder to switch them off once they weren't needed. Now, of course, the sign is often useless because one has no choice but to burn the headlights on many modern cars!

When those signs went up, people were buying the biggest and cheapest low-tolerance low-tech iron lumps that could fit between their fenders. So I have to be skeptical about the energy efficiency rationale.

I'm guessing the "Check Headlights" signs were more about people draining their battery after parking. Only luxury cars like Cadillacs were sophisticated enough to automatically turn off the lights in those days.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: roadfro on July 09, 2012, 04:05:44 AM
^ except that the "check headlights" sign was/is often placed on a roadway after exiting a tunnel or leaving a daytime headlight section, not around parking lots...
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Central Avenue on July 09, 2012, 06:01:07 AM
Quote from: roadfro on July 09, 2012, 04:05:44 AM
^ except that the "check headlights" sign was/is often placed on a roadway after exiting a tunnel or leaving a daytime headlight section, not around parking lots...

Well, if you forgot to turn off your headlights after a tunnel or daytime headlight zone, it would be pretty easy to run all the way to your destination with them on and forget to turn them off there, too...

Granted, I'm just guessing.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: codyg1985 on July 09, 2012, 09:23:44 AM
Mississippi has a "Trucks Turning" (http://goo.gl/maps/Ujyt) sign with a placard under it saying "Watch for Long Logs"

Alabama has a "WATCH FOR WATER ON ROADWAY" sign that is used in lieu of the Slippery When Wet sign. The Slippery When Wet sign is used in Alabama too, but the WATCH FOR WATER ON ROADWAY is only used in ALDOT's Second Division (NW Alabama), that I know of. I don't see the point of having this sign since you would be looking for water on the road if it's raining.

Quote from: realjd on July 06, 2012, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: colinstu on July 01, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
"Keep Right" sign. Used typically on large roads that have a median(s) at intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R4-7.svg ...this related sign too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W6-1.svg
I think it's fairly obvious of which side of the median to be on. Wrong way + Do Not enter signs are used in places where such a mishap can happen.

They're particularly useful when the median is hard to see. When making left turns at an intersection, they're excellent visual cues as to where to turn your car, particularly at night.



Seconded. I have ran into a curb in a median before at night because I couldn't see it and there was no Keep Right sign.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: hbelkins on July 09, 2012, 11:56:51 AM
Kentucky uses a text "Water Possible On Road" warning sign. I presume this is meant to warn of ponding water and is separate from the graphic "Slippery When Wet" sign. There's also a text "High Water Possible" sign that's permanently posted in areas that are prone to flooding.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2012, 01:53:14 PM

I've gone 100 km/h on gravel plenty of times in places like western Kansas.  If there has been rain recently, and/or if there are curves, it's too fast.  But under normal conditions, it's perfectly doable.

indeed, a lot of Kansas sectional roads are dead straight with great visibility, and about 55-60mph feels very safe.  I once took a Prius up to 102mph on an old US-81 alignment that was a very good dirt road!
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: DaBigE on July 09, 2012, 01:56:56 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 12:23:27 PM
I once took a Prius up to 102mph on an old US-81 alignment that was a very good dirt road!

A Prius?!? :wow: Did that thing have nitrous in it? I didn't think those could do above 60...(or maybe that's just the Prius owner's I experience around here :banghead:).
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: mgk920 on July 09, 2012, 01:59:36 PM
I'll second the uselessness of the USA's current 'KEEP RIGHT/LEFT' sign.  Instead, I'd use the European standard sign (a blue disk with a 3/4 downpointing arrow mounted low - 'DRIVE ON THIS SIDE OF THE SIGN'), or its yellow with black arrow 'diamond' USA equivalent.

Also, I'd like to see the European warning sign graphic images for 'watch for congested traffic' and 'watch for high winds' adopted here in the USA.

Mike
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 09, 2012, 01:56:56 PM


A Prius?!? :wow: Did that thing have nitrous in it? I didn't think those could do above 60...(or maybe that's just the Prius owner's I experience around here :banghead:).

102 is its top speed, as determined empirically on several occasions.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: Compulov on July 09, 2012, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 02:02:58 PM
102 is its top speed, as determined empirically on several occasions.

Is it really, or is it just a governor? Governors can be bypassed...
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 09, 2012, 01:59:36 PM
I'll second the uselessness of the USA's current 'KEEP RIGHT/LEFT' sign.  Instead, I'd use the European standard sign (a blue disk with a 3/4 downpointing arrow mounted low - 'DRIVE ON THIS SIDE OF THE SIGN'), or its yellow with black arrow 'diamond' USA equivalent.

I do believe Steve (Alps) mentioned to me at one point that there used to be a European sign like this in Boston, at the eastern end of Comm Ave.
Title: Re: Least useful road signs? (MUTCD... but can include other countries' signs)
Post by: national highway 1 on July 09, 2012, 09:12:52 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 09, 2012, 01:59:36 PM
I'll second the uselessness of the USA's current 'KEEP RIGHT/LEFT' sign.  Instead, I'd use the European standard sign (a blue disk with a 3/4 downpointing arrow mounted low - 'DRIVE ON THIS SIDE OF THE SIGN'), or its yellow with black arrow 'diamond' USA equivalent.

Also, I'd like to see the European warning sign graphic images for 'watch for congested traffic' and 'watch for high winds' adopted here in the USA.

Mike
In Australia we have this sign reminding European and North American tourists to drive on the left:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcd%2FDrive_on_left_in_australia.jpg%2F400px-Drive_on_left_in_australia.jpg&hash=5845732e131ec01a820b39b60f62ab08dc81c588)