Noticed on an Amtrak trip that many rail lines still have telegraph poles along the routes. Is there any true value in insulators? I saw some on eBay for $30+, but even just to collect, I would love to pluck a few off to add to my transportation collection.
Just scared of what might happen if I get caught!
some are more valuable than others. I picked up a generic green one at an antique store for $5 a few months ago.
It's sad to see some telegraph lines disseapearing along the railroad lines. Sometimes I got the felling then a railroad without a telegraph line is lacking something.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on July 05, 2012, 03:45:57 PM
It's sad to see some telegraph lines disseapearing along the railroad lines. Sometimes I got the felling then a railroad without a telegraph line is lacking something.
Once upon a time, the number of wires seemed to be an indication of how much traffic was on the track. The major BNSF track along U.S. 50 from Pueblo to Dodge City doesn't have any signal wire along it now.
I've noticed, in the rural areas of the South and West, the poles have no wires, and sometimes no trace is left. In the Northeast, there are tons of poles and wires.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 05, 2012, 11:43:13 AM
some are more valuable than others. I picked up a generic green one at an antique store for $5 a few months ago.
I hope it wasn't embossed Hemingray 42. Those are worth less than $1 in the price guide. Unfortunately all the decent stuff was picked decades ago and those that remain is at the low end of the price range or is where the line runs beside a busy freeway where no one in their right mind will attempt to pick them.
Member "HM Insulators" is also a collector and may offer more information when he sees this thread.
Handful of years back, I was driving the Lincoln Highway, west of Van Wert, Ohio, (I guess) about five months after a tornado went through there. Being on the lookout for leftover debris, I picked up a couple of telegraph (telephone wire?) insulators that were laying in the ditch along the side of the road.
The neat thing about Louisiana is that when you find the old poles, they're out in the middle of nowhere, with no traffic to bother with.
We do have lots of bayous and rivers, so the poles are always next to bridges.
Glass insulators for telegraph (and later telephone and power) lines were first made before the US Civil War. For decades and decades, literally hundreds of colors, shapes and styles were made, some rare, most common. Whether or not a given insulator is worth anything depends on the individual insulator and there are so many variables. By the 1960s, the glass insulator (though not the more modern porcelain one) was a dying breed in the US and the last American-made ones were manufactured in the 1970s.
I have to agree that seeing railroad tracks with no poles along them is unsettling, and I've never gotten used to it. When I was a kid back in the 1960s and '70s, I remember the old pole lines following the tracks not just for miles but for hundreds of miles.
If you want to learn more about insulators (and there's a surprising amount to learn about these little pieces of glass and porcelain!), try www.nia.org (the National Insulator Association's website) or www.cjow.com (an insulator collector's magazine called Crown Jewels of the Wire.)
Unfortunately, as truvelo said, all the "good stuff" has long since been pretty much picked over, and what's left on the few old poles along the tracks is common mundane insulators that serious collectors just aren't interested in.
Quote from: Truvelo on July 07, 2012, 05:28:04 PM
I hope it wasn't embossed Hemingray 42. Those are worth less than $1 in the price guide.
I think it is! :-D
whatever, it looks pretty and I've gotten more than $5 of interior decoration value out of it, so I am happy with the purchase.
The railroad line I'm most familiar with -- the CSX (former L&N) line running from Winchester, Ky. through Clark, Estill, Lee, Breathitt, Perry and Letcher counties -- has the poles still standing alongside the track, with a few insulators still on the poles. The wires are dangling from the poles and most of the sections between poles have been removed. I am surprised that the company didn't remove the poles, sell or recycle the insulators and sell the poles to utility companies.
A bigger shock than seeing a railroad with no telegraph lines is seeing a train with no caboose. I'm still having trouble getting used to that.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
The railroad line I'm most familiar with -- the CSX (former L&N) line running from Winchester, Ky. through Clark, Estill, Lee, Breathitt, Perry and Letcher counties -- has the poles still standing alongside the track, with a few insulators still on the poles. The wires are dangling from the poles and most of the sections between poles have been removed. I am surprised that the company didn't remove the poles, sell or recycle the insulators and sell the poles to utility companies.
A bigger shock than seeing a railroad with no telegraph lines is seeing a train with no caboose. I'm still having trouble getting used to that.
Down here in the South, our railroad bridges still have tons of telegraph wires. I'm going to be adventurous this fall and tackle a few of the bridges, snatching up the insulators. I purposefully will leave a few, and even string rope between segments if I can to give it that aged look.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
A bigger shock than seeing a railroad with no telegraph lines is seeing a train with no caboose. I'm still having trouble getting used to that.
It's been around 20 years since I saw a caboose for the last time. CN and CP dropped them in the late 1980s-early 1990s althought less important lines still have them. Here one train video with a caboose.
And a caboose video.
What the hell is a caboose? Oh, you mean one of those shoving platforms?
Shoot, I've seen a caboose within the last two years for sure. You see them every so often in freight yards, and sometimes on a train going by. Just keep your eyes open.
I tend to see more engines on the back.
the other day I saw something like 3 on the back and .... 9 on the front. I get the idea they just needed engines at Point B and most of them weren't active.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 13, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
I tend to see more engines on the back.
the other day I saw something like 3 on the back and .... 9 on the front. I get the idea they just needed engines at Point B and most of them weren't active.
The railroads are using what they call distributed power units (DPU) on long trains these days. These are remotely controlled mostly. They allow improved train control dynamics. (slack, braking, even improves track wear)
I'm curious as to why most trains you see have one or two facing forward, and one facing in reverse.
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Figured as such... thought it might even be to help brake in emergencies.
I seem to remember seeing a caboose a few months back.
I saw a caboose a couple weeks ago on a train on an overpass in Northeast Minneapolis. I was shocked to see one, and I was kinda wondering why they would use a caboose nowadays.
Quote from: twinsfan87 on July 15, 2012, 10:46:36 PM
I saw a caboose a couple weeks ago on a train on an overpass in Northeast Minneapolis. I was shocked to see one, and I was kinda wondering why they would use a caboose nowadays.
Usually it's a "shoving platform" for better visibility when reversing in a yard.
Quote from: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Why don't North American locomotives have a cab at each end like those in Europe?
Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
The railroad line I'm most familiar with -- the CSX (former L&N) line running from Winchester, Ky. through Clark, Estill, Lee, Breathitt, Perry and Letcher counties -- has the poles still standing alongside the track, with a few insulators still on the poles. The wires are dangling from the poles and most of the sections between poles have been removed. I am surprised that the company didn't remove the poles, sell or recycle the insulators and sell the poles to utility companies.
Same with the CSX tracks in much of Maryland that were once Baltimore and Ohio (or in some cases Western Maryland). Here and there one can still see a telegraph pole with insulators and wires, but most of them are now gone (presumably replaced by fiber-optic or conventional cable buried next to the tracks - I sometimes have seen CSX crews digging along the right-of-way).
Of course, it's a different story with the electrified Amtrak N.E. Corridor tracks (NS and CSX have trackage rights on the Amtrak tracks, mostly at night). Plenty of catenary and other wires over and near those tracks, for supplying traction power to the trains - and high-voltage transmission lines are usually present as well.
Quote from: Truvelo on July 16, 2012, 07:26:55 AM
Quote from: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Why don't North American locomotives have a cab at each end like those in Europe?
Many of them do. Some even have engines at the front, in the middle, and at the back.
Around here, they will use engines at the back to help push a loaded coal train up a grade. Once the train makes it to the top of the grade, the rear engines disengage and go back to the siding, ready to push the next train up the grade.
I believe some railroad subdivisions in Canada still use the telegraph poles to carry CTC communications. I'm pretty sure this is the case with the CP's Adirondack Sub from Delson to LaSalle. (Trivia: The City of Delson was named after the Delaware & Hudson Railroad, the owner of the tracks at the time.)
Regarding cabooses, I still see those sometimes. I know the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railroad still uses them quite often. I've also seen them run on some switcher trains between Delson and the Sainte Catherine industrial park, probably because they can't turn the train around there.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2012, 11:52:08 AM
Around here, they will use engines at the back to help push a loaded coal train up a grade. Once the train makes it to the top of the grade, the rear engines disengage and go back to the siding, ready to push the next train up the grade.
That is pretty common practice among railroads to get heavy consists up a steep grade.
Curiously, one of the steepest grades on the mainline CSX network is in (relatively flat) Montgomery County, Maryland on the Metropolitan Subdivision between Germantown and Dickerson. The tracks cross the Parr's Ridge in the Maryland Piedmont (passing the small town of Boyds near the crest of the ridge), and "helper" locomotives are often seen for trains hauling coal and crushed stone.
Maryland's I-270 runs somewhat parallel to the Metropolitan Sub at this point, and it too has remarkably steep grades (more noticeable southbound) to the crest at Md. 121.
The B&O's original main line west from Baltimore featured four externally-powered inclined planes at Mount Airy. This was before we knew what locomotives could do and the B&O had established the standard average 2.2% grade.
Quote from: bugo on July 16, 2012, 11:46:31 AM
Quote from: Truvelo on July 16, 2012, 07:26:55 AM
Quote from: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Why don't North American locomotives have a cab at each end like those in Europe?
Many of them do. Some even have engines at the front, in the middle, and at the back.
He meant cabs on the locomotives, not location of locomotives in a train consist.
Quote from: NE2 on July 17, 2012, 02:17:51 PM
The B&O's original main line west from Baltimore featured four externally-powered inclined planes at Mount Airy. This was before we knew what locomotives could do and the B&O had established the standard average 2.2% grade.
Correct.
And Mount Airy is at the crest of the very same ridge in the Maryland Piedmont that I mentioned in reference to the B&O's Metropolitan Subdivision.
Of course, the difficulty of crossing that ridge has been lessened by the tunnel that carries the CSX Old Mainline Subdivision tracks under Md. 27 (Ridge Road).
Quote from: Truvelo on July 16, 2012, 07:26:55 AM
Quote from: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Why don't North American locomotives have a cab at each end like those in Europe?
Because the other end is often facing a smooth-sided grain hopper, TOFC, gondola, or other perfectly rideable freight car.
(not)
Many of the Norfolk Southern tracks still have them in good working order. I have seen them along US 460 between Petersburg and Suffolk, VA (and presumably to Norfolk), in West Virginia winding along I-64 between Huntington and Charleston, and by OH 32 east of Cincinnati.
Quote from: Truvelo on July 16, 2012, 07:26:55 AM
Quote from: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
It's probably random, since there's no need to turn an engine around.
Why don't North American locomotives have a cab at each end like those in Europe?
Well, cabs cost money to buy and maintain.
Also, because the couplers used in North America (the familiar 'AAR' knuckle couplers, also the standard in China, Australia and many other places) are much stronger than those used in Europe - eight times the rated strength of European 'buffer and chain' couplers - much, much heavier trains can be run, much heavier than can be handled with one locomotive. 'AAR' couplers are, in fact, the strongest currently in use anywhere in the World.
Since only one locomotive unit is needed to handle most of the much lighter freight trains that run in Europe, a cab is used at each end of each locomotive to simplify the reversal of its direction at the end of a run. With multiple-unit locomotive use in North America, it is easier to have at least one unit facing each way in a consist. One of the big cost problems with steam locomotives was the hassle of having to physically turn the locomotive around at the end of each run, requiring either turntables or 'wye' tracks in nearly every yard, no matter how small.
Also, diesel-electric and straight electric locomotives run equally well in either direction.
As for the loss of that mass of wires along the side of railroads, nowadays that duty is done with either buried cables or with CTC signals that are sent through the rails themselves.
As for cabeese, they are often used by local switching crews while serving customers - they make long backup movements much safer. Several locals here in the Appleton area still use them.
Mike
Also, work trains frequently use cabooses. Saw a work train on an MBTA commuter rail line the other day with a caboose. Apart from that, the only ones I've seen in recent memory were either on tourist/scenic railroads, at museums, or abandoned.