This morning when I went onto the main (or "classic") eBay site, postioned right next to the eBay logo in the upper left hand corner was a picture of the spokeswoman for Progressive Insurance with a promotion for their "big brother" Snapshot monitoring system.
At first I thought that eBay had purchased Progressive (now there's a rumor to leak to Wall Street). Then I just realized the marketing executives had managed a new way to force people to read their idiotic and wasteful messages.
As you've probably gathered from other recent threads, I feel that society could do without the vast majority of advertising we are forced to accept. While I recoginze a certian amount of advertising is necessary for otherwise "free" services and products (like this web site), eBay is hardly a "free" web site that would be broke otherwise.
eBay makes a substantial profit from the numerous fees they (and their subsidary PayPal) charge their sellers (and buyers in certian cases). Yet they've apparently adopted the 1980s graduate business school model that "no amount of profit is enough profit, no matter how much it insults your customers."
^ I am surprised that you would be offended by unfettered capitalism. That doesnt seem consistent with some of your other posts.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 09, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
^ I am surprised that you would be offended by unfettered capitalism. That doesnt seem consistent with some of your other posts.
Fortunately, I just put new batteries in my sarcasm detector last night.
However, consider this. If society is so willing to accept unfettered capitalism, they why can't private homeowners allow McDonalds to place a huge banner on the side of the house in exchange for them paying the annual taxes on the property?
And as I stated in my original post, it's not like eBay is losing money. It's just another needless profit grab. The truly sad thing is how willing society is to accept ploys like this.
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 12:35:22 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 09, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
^ I am surprised that you would be offended by unfettered capitalism. That doesnt seem consistent with some of your other posts.
Fortunately, I just put new batteries in my sarcasm detector last night.
However, consider this. If society is so willing to accept unfettered capitalism, they why can't private homeowners allow McDonalds to place a huge banner on the side of the house in exchange for them paying the annual taxes on the property?
And as I stated in my original post, it's not like eBay is losing money. It's just another needless profit grab. The truly sad thing is how willing society is to accept ploys like this.
My strategy is to just ignore it. It's really that easy.
I haven't seen a banner ad since the late 90s.
Quote from: Special K on July 09, 2012, 12:52:16 PM
My strategy is to just ignore it. It's really that easy.
With respect, your strategy is exactly why the marketing executives are able to smother us with even more pointless and needless advertising every day.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 01:15:54 PM
I haven't seen a banner ad since the late 90s.
It's not a banner ad, not even in a separate box. The smirky face of the Progressive Insurance lady appears right next to the eBay logo (she've even waving at you).
It's this aspect of the ad I find particularly offensive. No matter how many times I've (and several other people I know) visit the eBay site, we always glance at the eBay logo on the upper left side of the screen. Placing an ad for something that you can't even get on eBay (automobile insurance) right next to their logo is obviously deliberate and nothing more than a cheezy gimmick.
But I guess somebody decided that eBay's CEO needed an extra $500,000 this year (salaries like those alone are another insult to society, but that's a topic for another time), so respecting their customers (the ones who pay the ever-increasing fees that go to their profits) isn't important to them.
I have not noticed any alteration to the eBay logo.
as opposed to being part of the image itself, it must be some kind of overlay, and my ad blocker is catching it. whee!
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: Special K on July 09, 2012, 12:52:16 PM
My strategy is to just ignore it. It's really that easy.
With respect, your strategy is exactly why the marketing executives are able to smother us with even more pointless and needless advertising every day.
And it's why I don't even notice it.
I don't use eBay and I generally have an aversion to buying something used if I can avoid it. Especially online, where I can't physically see it before I buy it.
But, as for the advertising... well, it's all predator versus prey, isn't it? The more people find ways to ignore or avoid ads, the more advertisers will find ways to prevent people from doing so. TV advertising isn't what it used to be since people just TiVo/DVR passed it, and young people aren't watching TV in the numbers they used to besides.
So, advertisers chase viewers onto the internet. Then you have adblockers. Then you have ways of messing with adblockers such as placing the ad images in the same directory as components important to the proper function of the site. Or continually creating new directories for them so they aren't caught by existing filters.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 09, 2012, 07:38:08 PM
I don't use eBay and I generally have an aversion to buying something used if I can avoid it. Especially online, where I can't physically see it before I buy it.
But, as for the advertising... well, it's all predator versus prey, isn't it? The more people find ways to ignore or avoid ads, the more advertisers will find ways to prevent people from doing so. TV advertising isn't what it used to be since people just TiVo/DVR passed it, and young people aren't watching TV in the numbers they used to besides.
So, advertisers chase viewers onto the internet. Then you have adblockers. Then you have ways of messing with adblockers such as placing the ad images in the same directory as components important to the proper function of the site. Or continually creating new directories for them so they aren't caught by existing filters.
With respect, that's a large part of the underlying problem. At the end of the day, there's far too much advertising everywhere. The advertising that was created, and the majority of the products that advertising pitches, are by and large a huge waste of time and resources that could be put to far more productive uses.
And if you believe that unfettered capitalism is so good and necessary to prevent society from totally collapsing (OMG - how will we survive without 35 brands of breakfast cereal or 20 different brands of cellphone, each of which requires a different OS to operate on), consider these two phrases and think about how society really benefits in the long term from either and/or both:
Bank Fees
Airline Fees
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
Bank Fees
Airline Fees
while these are specific examples of fee structures that are abused in fairly ornery ways, service-oriented businesses do generally have to charge fees to stay in business.
we could add "toll transponder fees" to this list, which fewer people would object to because they aren't as odiously presented. it is a matter of degree, not of kind.
for a product and/or service which renders exceedingly questionable benefit to society, try Scientology.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 07:57:25 PM
for a product and/or service which renders exceedingly questionable benefit to society, try Scientology religion.
*fixed*
Religion is more often than not a reasonable placebo. Scientology is the best example of where it becomes actually harmful to the patient.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 09, 2012, 07:57:25 PM
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
Bank Fees
Airline Fees
while these are specific examples of fee structures that are abused in fairly ornery ways, service-oriented businesses do generally have to charge fees to stay in business.
Examples that the phrase "truth in advertising" is a myth perpetuated by everyone who is not in advertising nor a lawyer.
Quote
for a product and/or service which renders exceedingly questionable benefit to society, try Scientology.
Like any fraternity, it's their own problem.
Quote from: formulanone on July 09, 2012, 08:40:42 PM
Examples that the phrase "truth in advertising" is a myth perpetuated by everyone who is not in advertising nor a lawyer.
in the end, you just have to evaluate the price you're paying for the services being rendered. I pay about $96 a month for my phone bill. given how much I use my phone for, I cannot complain. yes, it gets on my nerves to see a 48 cent "September 11th fee" if I look at the bill too closely, but I figure life is too short to worry about the itemization.
the trick is to recall that the "$70/month" quoted on the splashy ads has about as much bearing on reality as your chances at sexual relations with the model doing the advertising.
Quotethe trick is to recall that the "$70/month" quoted on the splashy ads has about as much bearing on reality as your chances at sexual relations with the model doing the advertising.
I've always found that people who actively look for deals are the ones who end up most disappointed- just accept the price and pay it. If the regular price is too expensive, you can't afford it anyway. If you try to beat the system, it will catch up with you because the system isn't actually beatable.
On the main subject, if you don't like it, don't use ebay. Dollars talk. eBay is in no way remotely necessary for survival. Putting a billboard on the side of a residential home directly affects other people- unless the house is at the end of a dead end road, somebody probably has no choice but to be subjected to it, making it a visual nuisance. Nothing forces you to visit eBay.
Quote from: NE2 on July 09, 2012, 08:40:34 PM
Religion is more often than not a reasonable placebo. Scientology is the best example of where it becomes actually harmful to the patient.
Religion is reasonable?
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
With respect, that's a large part of the underlying problem. At the end of the day, there's far too much advertising everywhere. The advertising that was created, and the majority of the products that advertising pitches, are by and large a huge waste of time and resources that could be put to far more productive uses.
Advertising is no doubt an overgrown industry.
Regardless, though, I see less a question of too much and more a question of how. It doesn't bother me to see advertising when I am out in public. But I hate it when it invades my home. Billboards on the highway, ads on the subway... that's all fine. Go nuts, I say. Hell, the billboards on the highway are
useful if you're looking for the service being advertized. But I have zero tolerance for internet ads. As for radio and TV, I typically use neither, so meh.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 09, 2012, 07:38:08 PM
I don't use eBay and I generally have an aversion to buying something used if I can avoid it. Especially online, where I can't physically see it before I buy it.
One thing I do is check out both eBay and Amazon.com to compare prices. You never know who's got the best deal going until you look!
As for buying used being a problem, there aren't any more printed-this-year new maps from the previous decades out there. They're all old, even the NOS stuff...LOL! Buying used items is not a problem when it's intelligently approached. Sometimes all there is available are items which are used.
Rick
I think it is silly to approach eBay without a strategy (ghillie suit and long-range scope in my case). I agree with Roadman that conversion of the eBay logo into an ad for auto insurance is crass, but like others upthread, I don't think the negative-externality argument works as well against that as it does for billboards on houses, not least because it is easier to design a technological workaround for the logo advertising.
In the case of airline fees, I think there is a public-safety argument that will become more prominent in time. Recently the airlines withdrew the free luggage allowance for transatlantic flights (it had already shrunk to one 50 lb suitcase from two 70 lb suitcases back in 2000). This has created a perverse incentive for passengers to carry as much on the plane as possible, which overloads the overhead luggage bins. The airlines have been shaving capacity, which aggravates the problem. The last time I flew from London to Chicago, I was catty-corner from a luggage bin which would not close when loaded because the catch was ready to fail.
I fear USDOT will not take action on airline fees until a plane hits turbulence on an overseas flight, the bins fly open, and falling luggage kills a passenger.
Sorry, but posting this, couldn't that be considered 'advertising'? It was enough to encourage me to go to eBay to check it out.. Haha
BigMatt
Quote from: nexus73 on July 09, 2012, 10:57:04 PM
As for buying used being a problem, there aren't any more printed-this-year new maps from the previous decades out there. They're all old, even the NOS stuff...LOL! Buying used items is not a problem when it's intelligently approached. Sometimes all there is available are items which are used.
Indeed, but in cases like this, I shop strictly in person. I'm not a big map collector, but I have been burned buying old baseball cards online. Nothing like buying an '81 Topps "complete set" and then finding it missing the three most valuable cards in the set when it comes. So I stick to hobby shops.
Quote from: corco on July 09, 2012, 08:46:56 PM
Putting a billboard on the side of a residential home directly affects other people- unless the house is at the end of a dead end road, somebody probably has no choice but to be subjected to it, making it a visual nuisance.
It's my property, and I ought to be able to do as I please with it. If you don't like looking at what I've done with my property, build yourself a privacy fence high enough to block your view of my property. Why should I be denied the opportunity to make a little extra cash just because your precious sensibilities are offended?
(And I'm referring to "you" in general, not you (Corco) specifically.)
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
Religion is reasonable?
Most reasonable people think so. :D
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
Religion is reasonable?
Most reasonable people think so. :D
[/quote]
Then they're not reasonable. Reason is the biggest enemy of superstition.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 10, 2012, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on July 09, 2012, 10:57:04 PM
As for buying used being a problem, there aren't any more printed-this-year new maps from the previous decades out there. They're all old, even the NOS stuff...LOL! Buying used items is not a problem when it's intelligently approached. Sometimes all there is available are items which are used.
Indeed, but in cases like this, I shop strictly in person. I'm not a big map collector, but I have been burned buying old baseball cards online. Nothing like buying an '81 Topps "complete set" and then finding it missing the three most valuable cards in the set when it comes. So I stick to hobby shops.
One of my hobbies for some years was collectable card games, especially Magic. I never had a problem with any seller when buying Magic cards but I also did my due diligence by checking their ratings and reading the negs and neutrals. If you have lots of problems dealing online with sellers, well, all I can say is your mileage may vary...LOL! Mine does just fine.
BTW, I have been on eBay for 13 years (rating is 500+, mostly as a buyer) and bought plenty of other used items from various other sites. The problems I have had are tiny in comparison to the amount of good dealings. Matter of fact I would put the problem percentage I experience at or less than 1%.
Rick
Quote from: bugo on July 10, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: H.B. Elkins
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
Religion is reasonable?
Most reasonable people think so. :D
Then they're not reasonable. Reason is the biggest enemy of superstition.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
Quote from: bugo on July 10, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: H.B. Elkins
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
Religion is reasonable?
Most reasonable people think so. :D
Then they're not reasonable. Reason is the biggest enemy of superstition.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Off topic, off topic.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2012, 11:15:18 PMIt's my property, and I ought to be able to do as I please with it. If you don't like looking at what I've done with my property, build yourself a privacy fence high enough to block your view of my property. Why should I be denied the opportunity to make a little extra cash just because your precious sensibilities are offended?
If you live in an urban area, or any area that has been subdivided under the supervision of a zoning board, you do not actually have complete freedom to do with your property as you please. Check the restrictive covenants that apply to your parcel first. Besides, the tort of nuisance is an established part of the common law.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Hammer Time!
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Hammer Time!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fstop2.jpg&hash=595510a87e1067447dd2c17b6171aa6577b1017b)
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 10, 2012, 12:27:48 AM
In the case of airline fees, I think there is a public-safety argument that will become more prominent in time. Recently the airlines withdrew the free luggage allowance for transatlantic flights (it had already shrunk to one 50 lb suitcase from two 70 lb suitcases back in 2000). This has created a perverse incentive for passengers to carry as much on the plane as possible, which overloads the overhead luggage bins. The airlines have been shaving capacity, which aggravates the problem. The last time I flew from London to Chicago, I was catty-corner from a luggage bin which would not close when loaded because the catch was ready to fail.
I fear USDOT will not take action on airline fees until a plane hits turbulence on an overseas flight, the bins fly open, and falling luggage kills a passenger.
Couldn't agree with you more. Especially when there's now less leg room in coach seating than on an average commuter train (and I'm of "normal" height and build).
Quote from: Steve on July 11, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Hammer Time!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fstop2.jpg&hash=595510a87e1067447dd2c17b6171aa6577b1017b)
"Stop! Thru Street" is the latest take on M.C. Hammer's classic, and is the opening track on Carl Rogers's new album,
US Federal Route 31W.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 12, 2012, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: Steve on July 11, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa7%2FStop_sign_MUTCD.svg%2F220px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg.png&hash=a3552ad016fc21118de2952411ff16dce76a6bc2)
Hammer Time!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fstop2.jpg&hash=595510a87e1067447dd2c17b6171aa6577b1017b)
"Stop! Thru Street" is the latest take on M.C. Hammer's classic, and is the opening track on Carl Rogers's new album, US Federal Route 31W.
Not sure which topic I find more disconcerting to read about on here - religion or The Viatologist Who Shall Not Be Named.