These are signs installed for the person who has missed their exit (or something otherwise obvious).
On I-80/294 north/westbound to get back to inbound I-94:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_2255.jpg&hash=9389c629fb214f8f2e7300e48809c40e9033b6c1)
https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.653113,-77.907173&spn=0.000002,0.001321&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=39.653121,-77.907567&panoid=kHxkgnZaEN1-AndqHe-lCQ&cbp=12,338.56,,0,-10.61
I'd think this one would apply. The sign that helps you differentiate between MD 68 and I-68.
^ There was, at one point, and may still be, a smaller-scale thing like that on US 220 southbound near Rocky Mount, VA, where it meets VA 40. There was an I-40 shield with a straight arrow, and "73 Miles" posted with it.
Edit: I found it on GSV. It looks like it says 76 miles, but it may just be the image. Still, it's an I-40 shield a whole state away, almost certainly the only one of its kind in Virginia.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2008_Richmond_trip_Day_1-2%2FImages%2F180.jpg&hash=8b537972596e6f184e3a40c9529a43fab9506e19)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fma%2Fi-95%2Fs58.jpg&hash=f69679eef09f9c78ddd7e37cd8a5d7a30594740d)
Southbound just past the major I-495 split.
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2012, 06:44:46 PM
These are signs installed for the person who has missed their exit (or something otherwise obvious).
....
It's been a few years since I've driven on the Delaware Turnpike, but for as long as I can remember they had this string of pull-through arrow-per-lane signs every few hundred yards on the southbound carriageway, essentially hitting drivers over the head with the idea that the road serves Newark and Baltimore. I don't know whether they were trying to give an extra-strong warning that the left lane ended or what, but a simple "Left Lane Ends xx Feet" might have been sufficient.
Pictures from AARoads.com. Notice in the second image how there's another BGS in the background that's basically identical except for the "H/Hospital" marker. I've omitted the first of these signs because that one is/was located right where I-95 and I-295 merge and so that one seemed legitimate, but the rest of these seem like total overkill.
(https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_01.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_03.jpg)
I seem to recall that in a thread last year Alex said most of these signs remain and a new Clearview version has been added a bit further south at Exit 4.
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
I will admit to stopping very damn close to the tracks, if it is one of those nearly-abandoned rail lines (one train every several weeks) and it's overgrown enough that you just cannot physically see the lawnmower coming. but if it gets worse than giving me about 3 feet of space between the tracks and the front of my car, I'm just going to get out to take a look.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
I will admit to stopping very damn close to the tracks, if it is one of those nearly-abandoned rail lines (one train every several weeks) and it's overgrown enough that you just cannot physically see the lawnmower coming. but if it gets worse than giving me about 3 feet of space between the tracks and the front of my car, I'm just going to get out to take a look.
Yeah. Unless I knew to a 100% certainty that a set of tracks is abandoned, I'd never stop on the tracks. Back in my teens when I had my first car (a 1977 Granada) I sometimes stopped before crossing the tracks, like school buses do, because the car was so unreliable that I was afraid if I shifted while on the tracks the clutch might fail and I'd get stuck!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
why the fuck would anyone do that?
Because people are idiots? There's two intersections I use regularly where people do it all the time, both with a traffic light controlled intersection just beyond the tracks. The first is Faculty Road at Alexander Rd in Princeton, NJ. At least this light is tied to the train signal. Just before the crossing lights come on, the light for Faculty Road turns green to clear the intersection. The other one is at US 13 and Green Ln in Bristol, PA. I've only ever seen the warning lights activated twice since I've been living down there, and both times it's been a really slow (I don't even know if it was doing 5 mph) freight train crossing 13. At both of these intersections, people always seem to stop right on the tracks. In the case of Faculty Rd, you'd think people would at least not want to get hit by the barrier when it swings down.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
I will admit to stopping very damn close to the tracks, if it is one of those nearly-abandoned rail lines (one train every several weeks) and it's overgrown enough that you just cannot physically see the lawnmower coming. but if it gets worse than giving me about 3 feet of space between the tracks and the front of my car, I'm just going to get out to take a look.
We have a signalized interesection here in town where there is a dual set of tracks just preceding it, with space for 2-3 cars between the stop line and the tracks. When stopping at the light, you have to be cognizant of how much space you'll have between you and the car in front of you. If you're not paying attention, it's really easy to get caught stopped on the tracks.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
why the fuck would anyone do that?
Close to home for you - I've seen it all the time near the San Diego airport on Laurel Street. For some reason people assume that if their traffic light is green, they can go through the light regardless of what's on the other side. I'm pretty sure the city installed an actual signal at that railroad crossing sometime recently.
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Where railroad crossings are very close to intersections, it is all too common for traffic to stop on the tracks.
Quote from: citrus on July 17, 2012, 01:06:22 PM
Close to home for you - I've seen it all the time near the San Diego airport on Laurel Street. For some reason people assume that if their traffic light is green, they can go through the light regardless of what's on the other side. I'm pretty sure the city installed an actual signal at that railroad crossing sometime recently.
it is beneficial to my sanity to not ever think about that lovely freeway we have going from I-5 to the airport.
I know which green light you're talking about... I think you can fit maybe two cars on the other side of the traffic light, before the tracks. then you're in the queue for the next light, but still the question remains: who the fuck would queue up for that light
on the railroad tracks??
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 08:48:12 AM
It's been a few years since I've driven on the Delaware Turnpike, but for as long as I can remember they had this string of pull-through arrow-per-lane signs every few hundred yards on the southbound carriageway, essentially hitting drivers over the head with the idea that the road serves Newark and Baltimore. I don't know whether they were trying to give an extra-strong warning that the left lane ended or what, but a simple "Left Lane Ends xx Feet" might have been sufficient.
Pictures from AARoads.com. Notice in the second image how there's another BGS in the background that's basically identical except for the "H/Hospital" marker. I've omitted the first of these signs because that one is/was located right where I-95 and I-295 merge and so that one seemed legitimate, but the rest of these seem like total overkill.
I seem to recall that in a thread last year Alex said most of these signs remain and a new Clearview version has been added a bit further south at Exit 4.
I need to update the Interstate 95 Delaware page to reflect several sign changes... As for that inane array of signs, I believe those signs were added in mid 80s. There was a repaving job in 1984 or 1985 IIRC that replaced the original concrete of I-95. That was perhaps when a lane was added from I-295 south onto I-95 south. In the mid 1980s (1985?) after Christiana Hospital opened, the signs were amended to add the blue H for Exit 4B (then Exit 4N).
As it was last month:
https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_005a_02.jpg - signs removed, sign bridge remains in place empty.
https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_01.jpg - signs also removed, leaving an empty sign bridge.
https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_02.jpg - Clearview carbon copy for the Delaware Turnpike sign, lane ends sign removed, new sign for the Welcome Center with a yellow/black "LEFT" tab, new smaller sign for "I-95 South Newark Baltimore" without arrows.
https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_03.jpg - completely removed.
https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_04.jpg - removed, a new sign bridge with guides signs for Exits 4B/A was added further to the west.
Just when you thought they were gone, they added a new Clearview version ahead of the DE 58/Churchman's Road overpass:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-095_sb_exit_004a_20.jpg)
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 08:48:12 AM
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2012, 06:44:46 PM
These are signs installed for the person who has missed their exit (or something otherwise obvious).
....
It's been a few years since I've driven on the Delaware Turnpike, but for as long as I can remember they had this string of pull-through arrow-per-lane signs every few hundred yards on the southbound carriageway, essentially hitting drivers over the head with the idea that the road serves Newark and Baltimore. I don't know whether they were trying to give an extra-strong warning that the left lane ended or what, but a simple "Left Lane Ends xx Feet" might have been sufficient.
I think that was the case in the Buffalo area as well on WB I-90 approaching US-219 South. There were boatloads of I-90 West -- Erie pull through signs even though you had passed the opportunity to exit at West Seneca or US-219 and you will have to go onto the Tolled portion of the NYS Thruway.
.
Quote
(https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware050/i-095_sb_exit_004b_03.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-095_sb_exit_004a_20.jpg)
Wow, somebody up there must really think drivers along there have route/control-city-amnesia or something 8)
Maybe my geography is a bit muddled, but how do you get to Newark from Delaware using I-95 south??
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:00:40 PM
Maybe my geography is a bit muddled, but how do you get to Newark from Delaware using I-95 south??
If you're in the right city in Delaware, you stay put.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:00:40 PM
Maybe my geography is a bit muddled, but how do you get to Newark from Delaware using I-95 south??
drive. swim. repeat.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:00:40 PM
Maybe my geography is a bit muddled, but how do you get to Newark from Delaware using I-95 south??
Look at a map....Newark, Delaware–whose name is pronounced as though biblical character Noah had built himself a new boat and called it "New Ark"–is located near the Maryland state line.
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
I don't know...the one in New Jersey is around 120 miles to the north, so I don't know how many people would assume that.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
I don't know...the one in New Jersey is around 120 miles to the north, so I don't know how many people would assume that.
If you're not from the area, like I am, how would you know? I had assumed it was referring to some sort of circuitous routing involving a 3di and the New Jersey Turnpike somehow...
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
I don't know...the one in New Jersey is around 120 miles to the north, so I don't know how many people would assume that.
If you're not from the area, like I am, how would you know? I had assumed it was referring to some sort of circuitous routing involving a 3di and the New Jersey Turnpike somehow...
Beats me. I've lived on the East Coast since 1974 and have travelled that route for much of my life, so it's never confused me and I never fathomed the idea it could confuse someone, simply because I've always known that the city in New Jersey is so far away. My assumption is that anyone who was actually bound for Newark, New Jersey, would have looked at a map and would not have messed up badly enough to go that far out of the way. (....he says, despite having once missed a turn in Colorado that took him 125 miles out of the way via Granby and Winter Park when driving from Laramie to Denver.....)
I don't think it would be incumbent on Delaware to put a "DE" next to the word "Newark," though, simply because I don't know of any state that does that as to its own destinations with one exception–Virginia has a "Va" next to "Great Falls" on a BGS on the Beltway because the exit for Great Falls, MD, is about three miles away.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
I don't know of any state that does that as to its own destinations with one exception–Virginia has a "Va" next to "Great Falls" on a BGS on the Beltway because the exit for Great Falls, MD, is about three miles away.
There's also another one in Virginia. Distance signs to the town of Washington on US 211 always say "Washington VA". Even though US 211 doesn't go to DC anymore and it's many miles between the two places, it's still relevant due to the familiarity of the name.
^^^ The same goes for Washington, PA signs on I-70 and I-79.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
Because of this (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-04-14/news/9302050959_1_gasoline-tanker-center-lane-train) clusterfuck.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
I don't think it would be incumbent on Delaware to put a "DE" next to the word "Newark," though, simply because I don't know of any state that does that as to its own destinations with one exception–Virginia has a "Va" next to "Great Falls" on a BGS on the Beltway because the exit for Great Falls, MD, is about three miles away.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2121%2F5792131102_ae79ebcd59.jpg&hash=f7684c999c6a0d8b3e286a77d532f351c13dea70)
As if anyone is going to confuse Nashville, Ill. with any other Nashville.
Quote from: formulanone on July 17, 2012, 09:00:38 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
Because of this (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-04-14/news/9302050959_1_gasoline-tanker-center-lane-train) clusterfuck.
I don't get it. someone stops on the tracks, goes fireball and takes out a few people... so now
more people stop on the tracks, necessitating warning signs?
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
You need to find a real geography department. More people think of Newark, Ohio than any other Newark in the world. Just ask any OSU or OU grad. :-P
Quote from: Takumi on July 17, 2012, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
I don't know of any state that does that as to its own destinations with one exception–Virginia has a "Va" next to "Great Falls" on a BGS on the Beltway because the exit for Great Falls, MD, is about three miles away.
There's also another one in Virginia. Distance signs to the town of Washington on US 211 always say "Washington VA". Even though US 211 doesn't go to DC anymore and it's many miles between the two places, it's still relevant due to the familiarity of the name.
D'oh, good point, totally forgot about that one even though I've seen those signs many times. I assume I forgot because, like many people, I think of the town as "Little Washington" because of the Inn of same name.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
Weird. Never heard of Newark, DE... I'd imagine most people seeing just "Newark" would assume it was referring to Newark, NJ as I did.
I don't know...the one in New Jersey is around 120 miles to the north, so I don't know how many people would assume that.
If you're not from the area, like I am, how would you know? I had assumed it was referring to some sort of circuitous routing involving a 3di and the New Jersey Turnpike somehow...
I remember, in my original days of good credit, some of the banks/credit card issuers had HQs or major credit card processing offices in Newark, DE... apparently DE is (or has been) very favorable for credit card companies to operate there and to have interest terms that they (the CC companies, not accountholders) also have found favorable.
Many companies incorporate and/or file bankruptcy in DE because of other favorable terms (no matter where the companies are actually physically based).
according to SAS Scandinavian Airlines, Newark NJ is the most important city in the region.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/blog/photos/047704.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/blog/photos/047762.jpg)
"Focus City": Kind of like a control city for airlines using the hub-and-spoke system. Although Thule's airstrip is likely for emergency uses only. Søndre Strømfjord, on the other hand, is Air Greenland's hub.
You have to fly Virgin America to get the Google Maps experience while you fly (although terrain and aerial photos are your only choices, the latter is for people who can't see out the window).
Quote from: formulanone on July 17, 2012, 09:00:38 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 17, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
At railroad crossings: "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS"
Absolutely necessary in south Florida. WAY TOO many people stop on the tracks.
why the fuck would anyone do that?
Because of this (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-04-14/news/9302050959_1_gasoline-tanker-center-lane-train) clusterfuck.
That's the accident that necessitated the signage. Unfortunately, these train/automotive collisions continue to occur in south Florida.
New Hampshire has to be the winner for signage in-state with the state identified--those new arrow-per-lane signs on I-95 NB approaching Exits 4 and 5 that mention "Portsmouth NH" are IN Portsmouth!!
I'll add to this thread by mentioning PennDOT's "LOOK LEFT-RIGHT-LEFT BEFORE PULLING OUT" seen at several intersections in the state.
I just thought of a sign that I know I've seen on interstates in congested areas before:
WATCH FOR STOPPED TRAFFIC
No shit, thanks! That's good advice regardless of what road one is driving on.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 20, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
I'll add to this thread by mentioning PennDOT's signs
FTFY
Quote from: hbelkins on July 17, 2012, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 17, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
I don't think it would be incumbent on Delaware to put a "DE" next to the word "Newark," though, simply because I don't know of any state that does that as to its own destinations with one exception–Virginia has a "Va" next to "Great Falls" on a BGS on the Beltway because the exit for Great Falls, MD, is about three miles away.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2121%2F5792131102_ae79ebcd59.jpg&hash=f7684c999c6a0d8b3e286a77d532f351c13dea70)
As if anyone is going to confuse Nashville, Ill. with any other Nashville.
Could be confusing to some people that are en route to Nashville, TN from St. Louis via I-64, I-57, and I-24.
Quote from: codyg1985 on July 22, 2012, 05:07:01 PM
Could be confusing to some people that are en route to Nashville, TN from St. Louis via I-64, I-57, and I-24.
Yeah, but it's also on I-64 westbound!
That photo was taken westbound.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 22, 2012, 11:30:39 PM
That photo was taken westbound.
LOL! I just took one of the same sign yesterday.
Quote from: Steve on July 20, 2012, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 20, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
I'll add to this thread by mentioning PennDOT's signs
FTFY
Yeah... wonder if there's any studies to see if these "helpful driving tips" signs have any effect at all. Or does PennDOT's sign shop just have a lot of free time?
Oh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Quote from: Compulov on July 24, 2012, 07:54:09 AMOh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Yes, they still do. PA 41 through Lancaster County still has them.
Quote from: signalman on July 20, 2012, 04:58:05 PM
I just thought of a sign that I know I've seen on interstates in congested areas before:
WATCH FOR STOPPED TRAFFIC
No shit, thanks! That's good advice regardless of what road one is driving on.
You don't normally see stopped traffic on an interstate. This sign is merely alerting you to the good possibility that it will happen here. Seems reasonable to me.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 24, 2012, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Compulov on July 24, 2012, 07:54:09 AMOh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Yes, they still do. PA 41 through Lancaster County still has them.
And along U.S. 322 east of State College.
Quote from: Compulov on July 24, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
Oh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Yes. I 80 WB before the East Stroudsburg exit.
Quote from: Special K on July 24, 2012, 01:30:44 PM
Quote from: signalman on July 20, 2012, 04:58:05 PM
I just thought of a sign that I know I've seen on interstates in congested areas before:
WATCH FOR STOPPED TRAFFIC
No shit, thanks! That's good advice regardless of what road one is driving on.
You don't normally see stopped traffic on an interstate. This sign is merely alerting you to the good possibility that it will happen here. Seems reasonable to me.
True enough, but my point was that a driver should be alert enough to see traffic slowing or stopped ahead and react accordingly. I don't feel that one needs to be warned of such a thing.
sometimes geography prevents one from seeing backed up traffic. a section of I-5 southbound at I-710 in Los Angeles is like this. I know from experience that if I'm doing 80mph, I am fine, but if I am doing 60mph, I must slow down to 30 for seemingly no reason.
Quote from: signalman on July 24, 2012, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: Compulov on July 24, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
Oh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Yes. I 80 WB before the East Stroudsburg exit.
No, removed due to Jersey driving. There's no way anyone's staying one dot apart (and didn't it start out as two? I seem to recall).
Quote from: Steve on July 24, 2012, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: signalman on July 24, 2012, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: Compulov on July 24, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
Oh, and does PennDOT still have any of those "keep two dots following distance" setups left anywhere? I remember them from several years ago, but I can't recall seeing any recently.
Yes. I 80 WB before the East Stroudsburg exit.
No, removed due to Jersey driving. There's no way anyone's staying one dot apart (and didn't it start out as two? I seem to recall).
They were removed? I didn't realize. I haven't been out to PA via I-80 in quite a while
Am I the only one on here who doesn't know what 'two dots following distance' means? I learned the rule of two seconds for every ten feet of vehicle length, but none of that phrase is related to a dot.
Quote from: kphoger on July 25, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
Am I the only one on here who doesn't know what 'two dots following distance' means? I learned the rule of two seconds for every ten feet of vehicle length, but none of that phrase is related to a dot.
I may be misunderstanding, but I was picturing either literal dots painted on the road and you should see two of them between yourself and the car in front of you, or else "dots" referring to the dotted line on the road such that you should keep two of those between you as well. I think what I'm picturing is something similar to the chevrons on the M4 near the M32 (see photo below; the speed limit there is 70 mph, BTW).
I recall also being taught to maintain a number of seconds between my car and the vehicle ahead, but vehicle length never factored into it. I think the rule of thumb was two seconds for speeds up to 40 mph and four seconds above 40 mph. Problem is, in real life that's utterly impossible. Four seconds' following distance leaves such a large gap that it is impossible to maintain it because somebody else will move into that space; if you then back off to restore four seconds, the same thing happens again.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F9%2F97%2FM4_-_Coppermine_-_23203.jpg%2F800px-M4_-_Coppermine_-_23203.jpg&hash=29b7a76c4b535a6be34d7db03b5619da357d71c8)
Most of us don't learn that the two-second rule is for every ten feet of vehicle, because we learn how to drive in passenger cars. I only learned that in a driving safety class for driving a commercial vehicle. Imagine how long it takes a semi truck with three trailers to come to a stop, compared to a school bus, compared to a Ford Ranger.
Good point. I do recall when I drove a rental truck from Brooklyn to Northern Virginia about 11 years ago being very cognizant of the stopping distance and the limited visibility. Tell you what, it gave me a much greater respect for, and understanding of, truck drivers because it was a chance to observe first-hand from a different perspective just how little understanding most car drivers have of the limitations on truck drivers (visibility and blind spots being the biggest one).
We were always taught 2 seconds behind the next vehicle, without any regard to distance. I myself have noticed that a good guide for me is being able to read a license plate at highway speed. If I can fully make out a license plate of the vehicle in front of me, I'm probably too close, even with my exceptional distance vision.
But again, that's just for my pair of eyes, and this doesn't work in the city.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 10:12:56 AMI may be misunderstanding, but I was picturing either literal dots painted on the road and you should see two of them between yourself and the car in front of you, or else "dots" referring to the dotted line on the road such that you should keep two of those between you as well. I think what I'm picturing is something similar to the chevrons on the M4 near the M32 (see photo below; the speed limit there is 70 mph, BTW).
In PA, the "dots" are basically white solid circles maybe about 2 feet diameter. It does the similar job as your posted-chevrons.
Although the below-image is from MN; PA has similar.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.mn.us%2Ftrafficeng%2Ftailgating%2FTH55-DOTSmockup-May06.GIF&hash=74fa078712ef858d25b1ab43c2fff31461712c97)
the public campaigns would probably be a lot more effective in improving traffic flow and reducing accidents if they were reversed in their orientation.
"guy behind you is fewer than two dots away? move your hind over to the right!"
Quote from: kphoger on July 25, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
Am I the only one on here who doesn't know what 'two dots following distance' means? I learned the rule of two seconds for every ten feet of vehicle length, but none of that phrase is related to a dot.
Photos I took of the setup along US 322 east of State College last month:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/us-322_two_dots_apart_01.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/us-322_two_dots_apart_02.jpg)
Thanks for the pictures. Never seen that before in the USA. That first sign Alex posted looks like it's probably fairly new, as it appears to be a Clearview sign.
I'm curious, do those roads that have this "dot" system have passing zones? The reason I ask is because obviously when you want to pull out and pass on that sort of road, you want to follow a lot closer than "two dots" away in order to execute the pass as quickly as possible.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 10:12:56 AMI recall also being taught to maintain a number of seconds between my car and the vehicle ahead, but vehicle length never factored into it. I think the rule of thumb was two seconds for speeds up to 40 mph and four seconds above 40 mph.
That was a staple of driver education in the late 1980's/early 1990's.
QuoteProblem is, in real life that's utterly impossible. Four seconds' following distance leaves such a large gap that it is impossible to maintain it because somebody else will move into that space; if you then back off to restore four seconds, the same thing happens again.
It's not impossible at all--that is how I routinely drive. The secret is to choose a speed low enough (in my case, a few hairs below the posted limit) to make it easy to pay out additional empty distance when cars cut in front of you. I usually find I can maintain at least a two-second following distance (and usually at least four seconds in rural areas) without too much trouble, unless traffic is really heavy or I am dealing with drivers who maneuver like jackrabbits (speed up to pass me, cut in front of me, and then tread on the brakes when they realize the traffic in front of them is going much slower than they are).
Good form is not to cut back into the driving lane after passing another vehicle unless you have given that vehicle at least a two-second following distance. I see this courtesy observed so rarely on the freeways that I always think better of drivers who observe it; but even the ones who cut back in relatively early are usually going fast enough that the minimum two-second following distance is restored within a relatively short period of time, without my having to brake or disengage cruise control.
OK, I'll amend my statement: When you drive in the DC area and surrounds, it's impossible to maintain a four-second following distance.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
Good point. I do recall when I drove a rental truck from Brooklyn to Northern Virginia about 11 years ago being very cognizant of the stopping distance and the limited visibility. Tell you what, it gave me a much greater respect for, and understanding of, truck drivers because it was a chance to observe first-hand from a different perspective just how little understanding most car drivers have of the limitations on truck drivers (visibility and blind spots being the biggest one).
It's had the opposite effect on me: I now take a dimmer view of truckers who tailgate, especially when they're pulling two trailers. Before, I never much thought about the added stopping distance. OTOH, I don't grumble nearly so much about passenger cars that tailgate truckers: the truck will take longer to stop than the car.....assuming the truck's brake lights work. On our most recent trip to México, we were in heavy I-35 traffic approaching Waco from the north. Traffic was only moving at about 45 mph or so, with frequent slowing and accelerating. I found out, after slamming on my brakes a few times, that the delivery truck in front of me had no working brake lights.
Quote from: Special K on July 24, 2012, 01:30:44 PM
Quote from: signalman on July 20, 2012, 04:58:05 PM
I just thought of a sign that I know I've seen on interstates in congested areas before:
WATCH FOR STOPPED TRAFFIC
No shit, thanks! That's good advice regardless of what road one is driving on.
You don't normally see stopped traffic on an interstate. This sign is merely alerting you to the good possibility that it will happen here. Seems reasonable to me.
Especially if there is a blind curve or hilltop. Such signs might actually be useful for out-of-towners unfamiliar with the route.
Quote from: kphoger on July 25, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
Good point. I do recall when I drove a rental truck from Brooklyn to Northern Virginia about 11 years ago being very cognizant of the stopping distance and the limited visibility. Tell you what, it gave me a much greater respect for, and understanding of, truck drivers because it was a chance to observe first-hand from a different perspective just how little understanding most car drivers have of the limitations on truck drivers (visibility and blind spots being the biggest one).
It's had the opposite effect on me: I now take a dimmer view of truckers who tailgate, especially when they're pulling two trailers. Before, I never much thought about the added stopping distance. OTOH, I don't grumble nearly so much about passenger cars that tailgate truckers: the truck will take longer to stop than the car.....assuming the truck's brake lights work. On our most recent trip to México, we were in heavy I-35 traffic approaching Waco from the north. Traffic was only moving at about 45 mph or so, with frequent slowing and accelerating. I found out, after slamming on my brakes a few times, that the delivery truck in front of me had no working brake lights.
Understand that too, but I see a lot more bad behavior, or just plain stupid behavior, by car drivers around trucks. I think the place where I see the most of it is probably I-81 in Virginia. The portions I typically use run along the foothills of the mountains and it's two lanes per side with heavy truck traffic. People trying to get around the trucks just do a lot of flat-out stupid things, like cutting in front of them on a downhill grade without leaving space. Driving the rental truck gave me a much greater appreciation for why things like that are so foolish.
Not disputing that there are lousy truck drivers out there too, but my experience is that if you demonstrate that you have some level of understanding of their vehicles' limitations/needs and of the signals truck drivers use to each other, many (certainly not all) truck drivers can be cooperative, since they know your car is faster and more maneuverable than their rigs. In terms of signals I'm thinking of things like flicking your lights off to indicate when it's clear to move over.
I was taught to keep either 1 second for every 10 mph or 1 carlength for every 10 mph apart when I learned to drive in VA. Every single state I've driven in I've observed this to be impossible. Someone ALWAYS moves over in front of you.
Quote from: Alex on July 25, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
Photos I took of the setup along US 322 east of State College last month:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/us-322_two_dots_apart_01.jpg)
I'll say it....Clearview on that sign is a deal-breaker. I'd obey the Minnesota one but ignore the PA one.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 25, 2012, 06:21:06 PM
I was taught to keep either 1 second for every 10 mph or 1 carlength for every 10 mph apart when I learned to drive in VA. Every single state I've driven in I've observed this to be impossible. Someone ALWAYS moves over in front of you.
Indeed, it is nearly impossible to allow the safe distance whenever there is much of any traffic. Heck, I've seen it many, many times on US 30 in western Ohio ( I'm not sure what it is about that road but I notice it happens a lot there) that I'll be rolling along with the cruise on 71 mph, with little other traffic, and someone appears out of nowhere behind me (entered from another road? Came along doing 90 mph?), passes me, and (usually without signaling) pulls into the right lane in front of me with very little room to spare--then winds up going no faster than I was in the first place such that there would be half a second separation between their trunk and my hood if we are lucky. Why not pass with more clearance? Why not pull into the right lane further ahead? Idiots.....
2 seconds following distance gives you 2 seconds reaction time, assuming both sets of brakes are equivalent. Speed and vehicle length have nothing to do with it (except insofar as the latter affects braking). So if your brakes suck compared to the vehicle in front of you, you may have to use a more complicated formula. But in a typical car, 2 seconds is a good rule, as long as you're paying attention.
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 25, 2012, 07:27:47 PMWhy not pass with more clearance? Why not pull into the right lane further ahead? Idiots.....
why slow down? drivers that can't be bothered to maintain a constant speed are a real nuisance.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 25, 2012, 07:38:04 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 25, 2012, 07:27:47 PMWhy not pass with more clearance? Why not pull into the right lane further ahead? Idiots.....
why slow down? drivers that can't be bothered to maintain a constant speed are a real nuisance.
That's what really gets me about those people. I have the cruise on 71 mph and leave it there, they come tearing past me, dive in front of me, and slow down, sometimes to less than 71 mph even, so I have to slow down and sometimes wind up passing them! What they hell are they thinking? They have to be out trying to mess with people or trying to start a road rage incident. I'd rather they just stay in the left lane for miles themselves than dive into the right lane in front of me and slow down. I just don't get it.....
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 12:39:27 PM
Thanks for the pictures. Never seen that before in the USA. That first sign Alex posted looks like it's probably fairly new, as it appears to be a Clearview sign.
I'm curious, do those roads that have this "dot" system have passing zones? The reason I ask is because obviously when you want to pull out and pass on that sort of road, you want to follow a lot closer than "two dots" away in order to execute the pass as quickly as possible.
Pennsylvania does not use passing zones. They use an innovative system called "centerline rumble strips." I have coined the term "Pennsylvania passing zone" to refer to a long straightaway with no marked passing zone, but sufficient sight distance that you can pass.
As for following distance - I also learned "2 seconds". As has been said, 2 seconds accounts for reaction time (which is the same at any speed), and correspondingly longer distance as speed increases. I've also heard "1 car length per 10 mph" but found myself to be a very poor judge of car lengths. I had someone once chastise me when I told them I use the 2 second rule, saying you "have to" use the 1 car length rule - frankly, that's idiotic. I'm going to use whatever rule keeps me safe. (Given that I drive in the northeast, I use a 1 second rule. 2 seconds is ideal in areas where people don't cut into spaces, like the West.)
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 25, 2012, 10:29:33 PMThat's what really gets me about those people. I have the cruise on 71 mph and leave it there, they come tearing past me, dive in front of me, and slow down, sometimes to less than 71 mph even, so I have to slow down and sometimes wind up passing them! What they hell are they thinking? They have to be out trying to mess with people or trying to start a road rage incident. I'd rather they just stay in the left lane for miles themselves than dive into the right lane in front of me and slow down. I just don't get it.....
I don't think it is necessarily always the case that a person who maneuvers in this fashion is trying to create frustration. He might, for example, have started his overtaking maneuver at the tail of a long platoon, felt compelled to speed up in the left lane in order to avoid unduly delaying faster vehicles on his tail, and then wanted to return to the right lane as fast as possible in order not to encourage them to slalom around him. (It is the combination of cutting in
and slowing down that aggravates--but I think it is unavoidable to an extent because people vary considerably in their ability to judge speed differentials before they initiate overtaking maneuvers.)
There's also the "first car gets pulled over" or "don't stick your neck out" logic which people espouse. The driver passes a bunch of cars and realizes he's in front of the 'platoon' and suddenly feels vulnerable to being cited for speeding. So he slows down to fade into the pack.
Quote from: Steve on July 25, 2012, 11:56:52 PMPennsylvania does not use passing zones. They use an innovative system called "centerline rumble strips." I have coined the term "Pennsylvania passing zone" to refer to a long straightaway with no marked passing zone, but sufficient sight distance that you can pass.
Au contraire, PA indeed does have passing zones... it's just not used on too many roads. Hog Island Road near the Philadelphia International Airport in Tinicum Township and segments of PA 352 in Chester/Delaware Counties are the 2 nearest 2-lane passing zones from where I live. I know that segments of US 30 in the central part of the state has them as well.
Those centerline rumble strips are usually only applied where the adjacent lane is used for opposing traffic AND in a
NO PASSING zone.
Quote from: Steve on July 25, 2012, 11:56:52 PM
....
As for following distance - I also learned "2 seconds". As has been said, 2 seconds accounts for reaction time (which is the same at any speed), and correspondingly longer distance as speed increases. I've also heard "1 car length per 10 mph" but found myself to be a very poor judge of car lengths. I had someone once chastise me when I told them I use the 2 second rule, saying you "have to" use the 1 car length rule - frankly, that's idiotic. I'm going to use whatever rule keeps me safe. (Given that I drive in the northeast, I use a 1 second rule. 2 seconds is ideal in areas where people don't cut into spaces, like the West.)
I think it's a generational thing. Both of my parents learned the "car length" method in the 1960s. I learned the "x seconds" method in the late 1980s. People invariably argue that what they learned is "the" correct thing. It's not just generational, either. I know a fellow who lives in California whose daughter is learning to drive and she claims that the left lane is "the fast cruising lane" because that's what the California driver's manual apparently says. She actually thinks that's a national rule! I told her not to rely on that sort of thing as a universal rule and she simply couldn't fathom that state laws vary. Why this is a surprise is not clear to me when things like speed limits obviously vary significantly from state to state.
This is getting into a totally different topic, so I won't say much other than to say this sort of thing is but one example of why I think it's not a bad idea at all to require people to re-take the knowledge test every other license-renewal cycle. There are enough things that have changed over the years that it's a bad idea to assume that just because you originally passed the test you're always good to go–my favorite example is probably how to use antilock brakes properly because I know a LOT of people who have no clue (based on their comments about "the pedal started vibrating so I let go"). Most states require doctors, teachers, attorneys, and various other professionals to take continuing education courses, and they're a small subset of the population. Almost everybody drives.
(/soapbox!)
Is there a place that documents all the differences between state laws? I know in CA, for example, it's illegal to turn across a double yellow line, while out east it's expected (how you're supposed to get to homes/businesses that are on the left side of the road, I have no idea). U turns are generally illegal in NY while I understand some places allow them.
On the 1 car length rule, my understanding is that it's not even valid today as it was designed before the era of power brakes. At least that's what I was told in driver's ed.
Quote from: deanej on July 26, 2012, 11:06:29 AM
Is there a place that documents all the differences between state laws? I know in CA, for example, it's illegal to turn across a double yellow line, while out east it's expected (how you're supposed to get to homes/businesses that are on the left side of the road, I have no idea). U turns are generally illegal in NY while I understand some places allow them.
On the 1 car length rule, my understanding is that it's not even valid today as it was designed before the era of power brakes. At least that's what I was told in driver's ed.
Don't know about any sort of comprehensive compendium of that sort. I've seen a few things that compile some of the laws that are frequently important to motorists. A fair number of websites try to summarize speed limits and left-lane laws, for example. There's an iPhone app (don't know if it's also for Android because I have an iPhone) called "State Lines" that summarizes the following over five screens: Sales tax, gas tax, diesel tax, time zone, leash laws, motorcycle and bicycle helmet laws, default speed limits (and it is NOT always accurate on this), reckless driving threshold, emergency phone number, mobile phone and text-message bans, seatbelt laws, whether left on red and right on red arrow are allowed, a variety of RV-specific issues, ABC laws, and some miscellaneous stuff (for Virginia it mentions the smoking bans for restaurants and schools, the lack of a bottle bill, and the radar-detector ban).
The National Motorists Association used to publish a spiral-bound guide to state laws that included mention of some unusual things–for example, back in the mid-1990s Alabama law required that you stop for a school bus with the lights flashing even if the road has a median and even if the median is wide. Most states do not require you to stop if there's a median. I don't know whether the NMA still publishes that booklet since I let my membership lapse.
Thing is, traffic law is susceptible to so many little issues that you're never going to be able to find a truly comprehensive index showing all the differences.
Quote from: deanej on July 26, 2012, 11:06:29 AM
I know in CA, for example, it's illegal to turn across a double yellow line
this is not correct. it is illegal to turn across an "implied median", which is two yellow lines separated by at least 24 inches of pavement.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 25, 2012, 12:39:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2012, 10:12:56 AMI recall also being taught to maintain a number of seconds between my car and the vehicle ahead, but vehicle length never factored into it. I think the rule of thumb was two seconds for speeds up to 40 mph and four seconds above 40 mph.
That was a staple of driver education in the late 1980's/early 1990's.
QuoteProblem is, in real life that's utterly impossible. Four seconds' following distance leaves such a large gap that it is impossible to maintain it because somebody else will move into that space; if you then back off to restore four seconds, the same thing happens again.
It's not impossible at all--that is how I routinely drive. The secret is to choose a speed low enough (in my case, a few hairs below the posted limit) to make it easy to pay out additional empty distance when cars cut in front of you. I usually find I can maintain at least a two-second following distance (and usually at least four seconds in rural areas) without too much trouble, unless traffic is really heavy or I am dealing with drivers who maneuver like jackrabbits (speed up to pass me, cut in front of me, and then tread on the brakes when they realize the traffic in front of them is going much slower than they are).
Good form is not to cut back into the driving lane after passing another vehicle unless you have given that vehicle at least a two-second following distance. I see this courtesy observed so rarely on the freeways that I always think better of drivers who observe it; but even the ones who cut back in relatively early are usually going fast enough that the minimum two-second following distance is restored within a relatively short period of time, without my having to brake or disengage cruise control.
What we learned was to not move in front of a truck until you could clearly see both of its headlights in your rear-view mirror. That's usually enough distance to be safely in front of it. It just kills me when I see people cut off large trucks right in front of me on the road, because one of these times, the truck isn't going to be able to slow down.
Quote from: BamaZeus on July 26, 2012, 12:18:40 PM
What we learned was to not move in front of a truck until you could clearly see both of its headlights in your rear-view mirror. That's usually enough distance to be safely in front of it. It just kills me when I see people cut off large trucks right in front of me on the road, because one of these times, the truck isn't going to be able to slow down.
I learned that rule as to all vehicles and I continue to follow it today unless I have absolutely no choice (e.g., the rare instance where I get hung out in the wrong lane and have to force my way over). I commented on it recently on another forum and someone said "you're showing your age with that one."
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 26, 2012, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: BamaZeus on July 26, 2012, 12:18:40 PM
What we learned was to not move in front of a truck until you could clearly see both of its headlights in your rear-view mirror. That's usually enough distance to be safely in front of it. It just kills me when I see people cut off large trucks right in front of me on the road, because one of these times, the truck isn't going to be able to slow down.
I learned that rule as to all vehicles and I continue to follow it today unless I have absolutely no choice (e.g., the rare instance where I get hung out in the wrong lane and have to force my way over). I commented on it recently on another forum and someone said "you're showing your age with that one."
I'm only 31, and I learned that one.
Quote from: Alex on July 25, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
Photos I took of the setup along US 322 east of State College last month:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/us-322_two_dots_apart_01.jpg)
The first thing I thought of when I saw this set-up is if you are in an area where there are a lot of drivers whose custom is to always drive 5-10 miles below the speed limit. Speed is posted at 45, Mr. Florida Snowbird is driving it at 35 MPH. Multiply that by 2 or more cars in succession that obey the sign to the tee and now you have an unusual traffic jam situation, since it will be more difficult to pass the Sunday Drivers, and if you do try to "leapfrog" around the blue-hairs, it's going to take longer because they will "re-adjust" to keep the "minimum" distance.
Even worse if one of these drivers thinks they must stay two dots behind a farm tractor doing 20, unless they risk getting a ticket! (Don't laugh, these people
are out there!!!)
I must really be craning my neck a lot, because if I can just start to see a truck's headlights as I plan to get in front of him, I feel like I am cutting him off badly. I usually go until I can see the headlights, grille, and even some of the windshield. (for a standard-looking rig)
that said, I do indeed crane my neck a lot while driving.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 26, 2012, 08:43:25 AM
Quote from: Steve on July 25, 2012, 11:56:52 PMPennsylvania does not use passing zones. They use an innovative system called "centerline rumble strips." I have coined the term "Pennsylvania passing zone" to refer to a long straightaway with no marked passing zone, but sufficient sight distance that you can pass.
Au contraire, PA indeed does have passing zones... it's just not used on too many roads. Hog Island Road near the Philadelphia International Airport in Tinicum Township and segments of PA 352 in Chester/Delaware Counties are the 2 nearest 2-lane passing zones from where I live. I know that segments of US 30 in the central part of the state has them as well.
Those centerline rumble strips are usually only applied where the adjacent lane is used for opposing traffic AND in a NO PASSING zone.
It was my attempt at humor - yes there are a few passing zones but FAR too few. When in PA, I use any place where I have sight distance to pass, regardless of striping. Also, trust me on this, they rumble strip right through passing zones too.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 26, 2012, 08:43:25 AM
Hog Island Road near the Philadelphia International Airport in Tinicum Township and segments of PA 352 in Chester/Delaware Counties are the 2 nearest 2-lane passing zones from where I live. I know that segments of US 30 in the central part of the state has them as well
The ones you talk about on PA 352 are now double yellow lined. Steve is unfortunately right in what he says about PennDOT's passing zones. In the flattest, most straightest sections of road where any other state would put a passing zone, PennDOT double yellow lines it. *sigh*
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 26, 2012, 08:30:57 PMIn the flattest, most straightest sections of road where any other state would put a passing zone, PennDOT double yellow lines it. *sigh*
Sounds a bit like what the MassDPW did with the 3-lane stretch of MA 114 through Middleton during the 1980s; replace the center passing lane w/a center left-turn lane even though there were very few intersecting streets along that stretch at the time. Today, the stretch has since been more developed.
Quote from: deanej on July 26, 2012, 11:06:29 AM
Is there a place that documents all the differences between state laws?
You betcha...the AAA/CAA Digest of Motor Laws, formerly published annually as a paperback book.
http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/
I was taught the "see both headlights in the mirror before you finish passing all vehicles" too and I'm just 21. Is it because my parents are baby boomers and not generation X?
I'm pretty sure I was taught the both headlights rule in driver's ed last summer.
My favorite "captain obvious" sign: KEEP OFF MEDIAN.
Quote from: pianocello on July 27, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
I'm pretty sure I was taught the both headlights rule in driver's ed last summer.
My favorite "captain obvious" sign: KEEP OFF MEDIAN.
Also important in south Florida where passing on the left, speeding-up through deceleration lanes and cut-back-in-front of you or impatience are commonplace.
Quote from: deanej on July 27, 2012, 11:48:11 AM
I was taught the "see both headlights in the mirror before you finish passing all vehicles" too and I'm just 21. Is it because my parents are baby boomers and not generation X?
Might be... I'm 33, and I recall my parents telling me that one.
Quote from: pianocello on July 27, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
My favorite "captain obvious" sign: KEEP OFF MEDIAN.
A similar sign, "KEEP OFF SHOULDER" has annoyed me whenever I've seen it. Usually it's around curves, though, so maybe they're going for people too lazy to, you know, keep their cars between the lines.
Quote from: Compulov on July 28, 2012, 09:33:12 AM
Quote from: deanej on July 27, 2012, 11:48:11 AM
I was taught the "see both headlights in the mirror before you finish passing all vehicles" too and I'm just 21. Is it because my parents are baby boomers and not generation X?
Might be... I'm 33, and I recall my parents telling me that one.
Quote from: pianocello on July 27, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
My favorite "captain obvious" sign: KEEP OFF MEDIAN.
A similar sign, "KEEP OFF SHOULDER" has annoyed me whenever I've seen it. Usually it's around curves, though, so maybe they're going for people too lazy to, you know, keep their cars between the lines.
Usually I see that one approaching a traffic light. Then again, I'm in the Northeast where it's de rigueur to use the shoulder for right turns - and sometimes for opportunistic bypassing of a queue or a slow vehicle at a red light.
I've seen "DO NOT DRIVE ON SHOULDER" in a number of places......and in most of the places where I see it, it's routinely ignored by a lot of people when traffic is heavy (perhaps no surprise there, since presumably the sign was put up because of people driving on the shoulder, right?).
Quote from: Steve on July 28, 2012, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: Compulov on July 28, 2012, 09:33:12 AM
A similar sign, "KEEP OFF SHOULDER" has annoyed me whenever I've seen it. Usually it's around curves, though, so maybe they're going for people too lazy to, you know, keep their cars between the lines.
Usually I see that one approaching a traffic light. Then again, I'm in the Northeast where it's de rigueur to use the shoulder for right turns - and sometimes for opportunistic bypassing of a queue or a slow vehicle at a red light.
Reminds me of the time I was on surface streets in Danbury, CT, bumbling around in search of Old US 6 to get back to I-84*. I came to a red light wanting to turn right, and I wasn't all the way over to the curb because to me that looked like a shoulder or "parking lane". I sat there for several seconds, trying to remember if right turns on red are illegal in that state, and a local driver blew around me on the right. (I don't think he even stopped at the light before making his right turn.) Mom was like, "what is that guy doing?" and I said, "he probably doesn't want to wait behind the idiot driver from Ohio." Satisfied the maneuver was legal in Connecticut, I made my right turn on red.
*Whole story: we'd gotten off the Interstate due to a traffic jam. I didn't have a local map, but I trusted (perhaps too much for New England) my instinct and sense of direction. Though the route we wound up taking through Danbury was anything but direct, when we got back on the highway, we found ourselves next to a black limo we were pretty sure we'd seen just before exiting.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2012, 06:14:20 PM
I've seen "DO NOT DRIVE ON SHOULDER" in a number of places......and in most of the places where I see it, it's routinely ignored by a lot of people when traffic is heavy (perhaps no surprise there, since presumably the sign was put up because of people driving on the shoulder, right?).
Well, New York puts up State Law-series signs reminding us that such is illegal, in areas where violations are common, usually as a shortcut to making right turns. In one such area, I noticed so many county sheriff vehicles violating the law that I wrote them a letter to remind them about setting a good example. It was promptly ignored. (It was also ignored on a longer timeframe.)
I know this is a departure from the more recent posts on this thread, but how's this for a sign for idiots?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kta_042_2011.jpg
It's at the southernmost of four exits for Wichita on I-35/The Kansas Turnpike. My best guess is that some people thought it was the only exit for Wichita. You might be able to guess what it looked like before someone decided to vandalize a perfectly fine sign assembly. The left sign was a standard pull-through sign with two down arrows and only one control city, and the right sign didn't have the awkwardly placed "S." I would have thought a standard "Wichita Next 4 Exits" sign in advance of this exit would suffice. Also note the awkwardly placed exit speed warning tab. Maybe someday the Turnpike will replace this monstrosity, thus putting it out of its misery.
Edit: And here's what it used to look like, so you don't have to guess: http://www.interstate-guide.com/images135/i-135_ks_st_09.jpg
Before:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F56%2FKta_042.jpg%2F800px-Kta_042.jpg&hash=b4a61fc7c19a6495b404de4ef70aab3b89161a71)
After:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F59%2FKta_042_2011.jpg%2F800px-Kta_042_2011.jpg&hash=eed577a91f7eafd66e065cde8a21c883782b2661)
Quote from: vtk on July 28, 2012, 11:31:56 PM
Quote from: Steve on July 28, 2012, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: Compulov on July 28, 2012, 09:33:12 AM
A similar sign, "KEEP OFF SHOULDER" has annoyed me whenever I've seen it. Usually it's around curves, though, so maybe they're going for people too lazy to, you know, keep their cars between the lines.
Usually I see that one approaching a traffic light. Then again, I'm in the Northeast where it's de rigueur to use the shoulder for right turns - and sometimes for opportunistic bypassing of a queue or a slow vehicle at a red light.
Reminds me of the time I was on surface streets in Danbury, CT, bumbling around in search of Old US 6 to get back to I-84*. I came to a red light wanting to turn right, and I wasn't all the way over to the curb because to me that looked like a shoulder or "parking lane". I sat there for several seconds, trying to remember if right turns on red are illegal in that state, and a local driver blew around me on the right. (I don't think he even stopped at the light before making his right turn.) Mom was like, "what is that guy doing?" and I said, "he probably doesn't want to wait behind the idiot driver from Ohio." Satisfied the maneuver was legal in Connecticut, I made my right turn on red.
*Whole story: we'd gotten off the Interstate due to a traffic jam. I didn't have a local map, but I trusted (perhaps too much for New England) my instinct and sense of direction. Though the route we wound up taking through Danbury was anything but direct, when we got back on the highway, we found ourselves next to a black limo we were pretty sure we'd seen just before exiting.
Being that turning right on red is legal in all 50 states unless a sign is present, I don't know why you would have even considered that to be an issue.
And yes, I know it's illegal in NYC. NYC is not a state though.
I remember when RTOR was not legal in Kentucky, but it was in Ohio.
How many states now have LTOR for the intersection of two one-way streets? Kentucky does.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
....
How many states now have LTOR for the intersection of two one-way streets? Kentucky does.
37.
It's damn annoying when you drive in a state or territory that doesn't allow it and you encounter those types of intersections, too. I say "or territory" because the District of Columbia doesn't allow it despite having a fair number of intersections where it would be a wholly appropriate thing to allow. It's possible that as a Virginian who is used to left on red being legal I might ignore DC's prohibition on such turns from time to time...... (I'm the only person I know who makes lefts on red in Virginia when it's legal, though. I have a number of friends who think I'm nuts because they've never heard of it being legal. There used to be an intersection in Fairfax City where they even put up a sign saying you could do it, although they've since reconfigured the roads and it's no longer one-way to one-way.)
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 29, 2012, 03:47:14 PM
I know this is a departure from the more recent posts on this thread, but how's this for a sign for idiots?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kta_042_2011.jpg
It's at the southernmost of four exits for Wichita on I-35/The Kansas Turnpike. My best guess is that some people thought it was the only exit for Wichita. You might be able to guess what it looked like before someone decided to vandalize a perfectly fine sign assembly. The left sign was a standard pull-through sign with two down arrows and only one control city, and the right sign didn't have the awkwardly placed "S." I would have thought a standard "Wichita Next 4 Exits" sign in advance of this exit would suffice. Also note the awkwardly placed exit speed warning tab. Maybe someday the Turnpike will replace this monstrosity, thus putting it out of its misery.
Edit: And here's what it used to look like, so you don't have to guess: http://www.interstate-guide.com/images135/i-135_ks_st_09.jpg
It's not a Sign For Idiots. It's a Sign For Profit, so that stupid drivers going downtown might stay on the toll road another couple exits.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 20, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
I'll add to this thread by mentioning PennDOT's "LOOK LEFT-RIGHT-LEFT BEFORE PULLING OUT" seen at several intersections in the state.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/325879_10101676024570258_1286167671_o.jpg)
^ That's the one. Except the ones I've seen aren't as ugly and don't use Clearview.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 30, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
^ That's the one. Except the ones I've seen aren't as ugly and don't use Clearview.
Yep--the Clearview makes this one especially annoying. The "Don't Tailgate", "Buckle Up, It's the Law". and "Fasten Seat Belts Next Million Miles" signs in black on yellow with all Clearview are quite annoying as well.
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 30, 2012, 10:25:36 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on July 30, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
^ That's the one. Except the ones I've seen aren't as ugly and don't use Clearview.
Yep--the Clearview makes this one especially annoying. The "Don't Tailgate", "Buckle Up, It's the Law". and "Fasten Seat Belts Next Million Miles" signs in black on yellow with all Clearview are quite annoying as well.
Luckily, I think PennDOT 86'd the production of those signs. I haven't seen any brand new ones around, since all of the ones in my area were put up around 2004ish (which incidentally is when I think PennDOT started testing the font).
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
I remember when RTOR was not legal in Kentucky, but it was in Ohio.
How many states now have LTOR for the intersection of two one-way streets? Kentucky does.
In Illinois, you can go from one one-way onto another one-way as a LTOR. In Michigan, you can go from a two-way to a one-way as a LTOR. Very useful for turning left onto a freeway entrance ramp.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2012, 10:21:08 AM
Being that turning right on red is legal in all 50 states unless a sign is present, I don't know why you would have even considered that to be an issue.
And yes, I know it's illegal in NYC. NYC is not a state though.
I had been under the impression all of NYS banned RTOR. Having not heard one way or another of other New England states, I wasn't sure. I did think it odd that my AAA triptik, which had a comparison of state traffic laws, was silent on this point.
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 30, 2012, 10:25:36 PM
Yep--the Clearview makes this one especially annoying. The "Don't Tailgate", "Buckle Up, It's the Law". and "Fasten Seat Belts Next Million Miles" signs in black on yellow with all Clearview are quite annoying as well.
There are drivers out there who have more than a million miles logged...wonder if anybody's tried to get out of a seatbelt citation based on PENNDOT's sign? :-)
Quote from: vtk on July 30, 2012, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2012, 10:21:08 AM
Being that turning right on red is legal in all 50 states unless a sign is present, I don't know why you would have even considered that to be an issue.
And yes, I know it's illegal in NYC. NYC is not a state though.
I had been under the impression all of NYS banned RTOR. Having not heard one way or another of other New England states, I wasn't sure. I did think it odd that my AAA triptik, which had a comparison of state traffic laws, was silent on this point.
No, it's definitely allowed in the rest of New York State. In fact if you're driving east on Jericho Turnpike from Queens into Nassau County you'll encounter a "No Turn on Red" sign fairly quickly after crossing the county line.
I would have suggested that perhaps your trip was back in the early 1970s if it weren't for your profile stating your age as 28. I've heard, but cannot verify from experience, that most East Coast states did not allow turns on red until the gas shortages in the 1970s, so back then there might have been a good reason not to know what the rule was. The comment from "hbelkins," whose profile shows he's been on the road for longer, further confirms this thought in my mind.
IIRC, Massachusetts was one of the last (if not the last) states to allow RTOR (or LTOR for 2-One-way streets) circa 1980 as a fuel-saving measure (less idling=less fuel used). Of course, when the law first took effect, nearly every signal had NO TURN ON RED signs erected (many of them were mounted on the signals themselves). Over time, many of those signs ultimately wound up coming down when it was realized that RTOR did not translate to increased accidents.
Today, I believe that PA (particularly the SE corner) has a glut of NO TURN ON RED signs erected.
Some people might also get the impression because NYC does ban RTOR, in one of the areas it acts like a separate state; the relationship between NYC and the rest of NY is much like the relationship between Quebec and the rest of Canada, except we don't have language issues.
Quote from: deanej on July 31, 2012, 11:14:48 AM
except we don't have language issues.
You don't? :-D
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 31, 2012, 11:12:09 AM
IIRC, Massachusetts was one of the last (if not the last) states to allow RTOR (or LTOR for 2-One-way streets) circa 1980 as a fuel-saving measure (less idling=less fuel used). Of course, when the law first took effect, nearly every signal had NO TURN ON RED signs erected (many of them were mounted on the signals themselves). Over time, many of those signs ultimately wound up coming down when it was realized that RTOR did not translate to increased accidents.
when I was learning to drive in Massachusetts, I saw so many "no turn on red" signs that when there was an intersection without one, I assumed vandalism!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2012, 12:36:06 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 31, 2012, 11:12:09 AM
IIRC, Massachusetts was one of the last (if not the last) states to allow RTOR (or LTOR for 2-One-way streets) circa 1980 as a fuel-saving measure (less idling=less fuel used). Of course, when the law first took effect, nearly every signal had NO TURN ON RED signs erected (many of them were mounted on the signals themselves). Over time, many of those signs ultimately wound up coming down when it was realized that RTOR did not translate to increased accidents.
when I was learning to drive in Massachusetts, I saw so many "no turn on red" signs that when there was an intersection without one, I assumed vandalism!
There's still a NO LEFT TURN ON RED in Cambridge. That's how I found out it's legal in Mass otherwise.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2012, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 31, 2012, 12:19:25 PM
Quote from: deanej on July 31, 2012, 11:14:48 AM
except we don't have language issues.
You don't? :-D
fuck no, why the fuck would you fucking think that?
Or as the majority of Bronx residents would say, "¿Qué?"