I just spent most of last week in the Reno/Carson City area (Wednesday through Sunday) for a bowling tournament and there were a few new things I saw in Nevada that I hadn't seen over the past few years. FWIW, I make multiple trips to Reno or Las Vegas over the course of a year and these observations are coming from a native Californian.
Lane Striping...
Is it just me or are the lane lines on Nevada freeway (solid yellow, dashed white and solid white) wider than the lane lines on California freeways? If so, are the widen lane lines just a Nevada standard or is there something spelled out in the national MUTCD that California is not following? The lane lines on conventional highways like the current US 395 between NV-431 and Washoe Lake are the same width as those used on California freeways. I am aware that if bott dots (raised pavement markers) are used for lane striping (which I've found in the Las Vegas area), then the lane line width more closely matches California's.
Clearview...
While it's been noted in other topics that the overhead guide signs on US 395 in and around the I-80 interchange were recently replaced with Clearview signs, I did notice that the directional banners found on the "Freeway Entrance" assemblies to US 395 on E. 2nd Street were also in Clearview (Note: NOT Clearview but in fact a custom NDOT typeface). I'm glad to see that the signs on the I-580 freeway appear to be using the standard FHWA font.
Metering Lights...
While I have seen them in Las Vegas, I was rather surprised to find them in Reno, particularly on the ramp from Virginia St to eastbound I-80. I was even more surprised to see them in operation on a Sunday. These meters appear to be temporary and part of the I-80 rehab which is still ongoing but are there plans to meter traffic getting on to I-80?
Tubular Sign Bridges...
As was mentioned in the "When will I-580 open" thread by roadfro, there are a number of tubular sign bridges going up on I-80 between Robb Drive and US 395. These appear to be the same as what's used in California although Caltrans tends to paint these structures a very dark green (see I-680 through Concord and I-580 north of CA-238). The ones in Reno appear to be unpainted. I'd love to see how the signs are mounted and whether they will be E-modified or Clearview (hopefully E-modified).
Cellphone Advisory Signs...
Apparently, Nevada has passed a law prohibiting cell phone use while driving unless using a hands-free device because after crossing the state line on I-80 I was greeted with a sign advising motorists of the ban. I wish California would post the same warning signs at the state line to inform drivers that cell phone use must be hands free and that texting while driving is not allowed.
My next foray into Nevada will come in late October when I head to Las Vegas for another bowling tournament I participate in each year. I can't wait until my next trip to Reno in 2013 so I can checkout the new I-580 freeway.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 26, 2012, 01:30:18 AM
I just spent most of last week in the Reno/Carson City area (Wednesday through Sunday) for a bowling tournament and there were a few new things I saw in Nevada that I hadn't seen over the past few years. FWIW, I make multiple trips to Reno or Las Vegas over the course of a year and these observations are coming from a native Californian.
Next time you come to Reno, let me know!
Quote
Lane Striping...
Is it just me or are the lane lines on Nevada freeway (solid yellow, dashed white and solid white) wider than the lane lines on California freeways? If so, are the widen lane lines just a Nevada standard or is there something spelled out in the national MUTCD that California is not following? The lane lines on conventional highways like the current US 395 between NV-431 and Washoe Lake are the same width as those used on California freeways. I am aware that if bott dots (raised pavement markers) are used for lane striping (which I've found in the Las Vegas area), then the lane line width more closely matches California's.
The national MUTCD allows for normal lane striping to vary in width from 4" to 6". Typical striping applications use 4" width, but it is not uncommon to see 6" widths on higher volume roads in urban areas--the wider stripe also seems to be common on PCC pavements (perhaps to increase the "target value" of the lines without using contrasting paint colors.) I seem to recall somewhere that Nevada may even be using 8" striping at times--not sure if this is consistent with the "wide" line provision in MUTCD or is some other application.
I also seem to recall reading somewhere (maybe a study abstract or something) that a simple application of wider striping can lead to a minor reduction in lane departure accidents.
It's worth noting that NDOT has just begun to embrace using contrasting paint color on light PCC pavements. US 395 north in Reno was the first test of this, using a narrow black stripe on both sides of the white stripes. I believe the final striping on I-80 in Reno is going to get a similar treatment.
Quote
Clearview...
While it's been noted in other topics that the overhead guide signs on US 395 in and around the I-80 interchange were recently replaced with Clearview signs, I did notice that the directional banners found on the "Freeway Entrance" assemblies to US 395 on E. 2nd Street were also in Clearview. I'm glad to see that the signs on the I-580 freeway appear to be using the standard FHWA font.
I had not noticed those freeway entrance signs at all, although I am admittedly not a font expert--I can't distinguish FHWA from Clearview in all-caps on a small sign. It is worth noting that the northbound ramps at US 395 & Second/Glendale were reconstructed and all signage replaced in the same project that installed the Clearview guide signs...
Thus far, I haven't noticed any other Clearview signage in Nevada other than that present on the US 395 northbound project. As mentioned, I-580 is using FHWA. There's also a newer BGS for UNR attractions on I-80 West approaching Virginia Street that appears to be using a smaller/compressed FHWA font, which leads me to believe the new overhead signs coming on I-80 will follow with FHWA. New signs on the I-15 south design build project in the Vegas area also use FHWA.
So maybe the US 395 signs are/were an NDOT experiment with Clearview (and a further experiment with non-lit overhead signing and/or different sheeting materials).
Replies, part 2...
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 26, 2012, 01:30:18 AM
Metering Lights...
While I have seen them in Las Vegas, I was rather surprised to find them in Reno, particularly on the ramp from Virginia St to eastbound I-80. I was even more surprised to see them in operation on a Sunday. These meters appear to be temporary and part of the I-80 rehab which is still ongoing but are there plans to meter traffic getting on to I-80?
Northern Nevada's first ramp meters were the I-80 eastbound on-ramps at Keystone Ave, Virginia St/Downtown, and Wells Ave. They were installed over a year ago to help mitigate weaving/merging issues during I-80 reconstruction, since the normal lane setup (3 thru + 1 aux) was reduced for construction (down to 2 thru), and eastbound sees high volumes in both peak hours and during non-peaks as well.
When first installed, a newspaper article indicated NDOT would be considering permanent metering at these onramps. NDOT got a couple months to evaluate full effectiveness of the meters while the freeway was temporarily back to three lanes during winter construction shutdown. They seemed satisfied with their operation, and announced that the I-80 EB on-ramps at Virginia and at Wells would become permanent (from my observation, it looks like the Keystone meter may remain as well). NDOT has not announced any other metering plans in the area, and I know of no studies or reports that address this.
The only issue I see with these meters in their current state is that they do tend to be metering at late times when one wouldn't think meters should be on. I hope this is temporary due to construction, and that there is a combination of regular schedule and mainline sensors that will have meters operate at reasonable and beneficial times.
Quote
Tubular Sign Bridges...
As was mentioned in the "When will I-580 open" thread by roadfro, there are a number of tubular sign bridges going up on I-80 between Robb Drive and US 395. These appear to be the same as what's used in California although Caltrans tends to paint these structures a very dark green (see I-680 through Concord and I-580 north of CA-238). The ones in Reno appear to be unpainted. I'd love to see how the signs are mounted and whether they will be E-modified or Clearview (hopefully E-modified).
As mentioned previously, I'm guessing these will be FHWA signs and possibly not illuminated (NDOT's first experiments with non-lit overhead signs was along I-80 in downtown Reno, covering up old porcelains with new panels and removing the lighting fixtures).
I've seen CalTrans paint these monotube signs either green or a light tan (I think that's more common in SoCal). I don't think NDOT will be painting these poles though, but I could be wrong.
Quote
Cellphone Advisory Signs...
Apparently, Nevada has passed a law prohibiting cell phone use while driving unless using a hands-free device because after crossing the state line on I-80 I was greeted with a sign advising motorists of the ban. I wish California would post the same warning signs at the state line to inform drivers that cell phone use must be hands free and that texting while driving is not allowed.
I had not seen that sign at the border. That law went into effect last October, with actual fines starting beginning this year. BTW: A lesser known aspect of that law is, according to some police officers I know, the law extends to all handheld electronic devices and not just cell phones...
Quote
My next foray into Nevada will come in late October when I head to Las Vegas for another bowling tournament I participate in each year. I can't wait until my next trip to Reno in 2013 so I can checkout the new I-580 freeway.
Have fun in Vegas. By then, the I-15 project in the Strip corridor should be mostly finished. Lots of new C/D roads and landscape enhancements down there.
Quote from: roadfro on July 27, 2012, 04:27:36 AM
Have fun in Vegas. By then, the I-15 project in the Strip corridor should be mostly finished. Lots of new C/D roads and landscape enhancements down there.
If memory serves me right, I recalled seeing the new arrow-per-lane signs on the C/D roads along southbound I-15 within the construction zone. I will try to get a picture of these signs (albeit with a cellphone camera) on that trip.
Quote from: roadfro on July 27, 2012, 04:05:28 AM
I had not noticed those freeway entrance signs at all, although I am admittedly not a font expert--I can't distinguish FHWA from Clearview in all-caps on a small sign. It is worth noting that the northbound ramps at US 395 & Second/Glendale were reconstructed and all signage replaced in the same project that installed the Clearview guide signs...
The only thing that tipped me off that the directional banner was in Clearview was the letter 'S' in "SOUTH".
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 27, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: roadfro on July 27, 2012, 04:27:36 AM
Have fun in Vegas. By then, the I-15 project in the Strip corridor should be mostly finished. Lots of new C/D roads and landscape enhancements down there.
If memory serves me right, I recalled seeing the new arrow-per-lane signs on the C/D roads along southbound I-15 within the construction zone. I will try to get a picture of these signs (albeit with a cellphone camera) on that trip.
You are correct. That project is the first use of arrow-per-lane diagrammatic signs in Nevada.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 26, 2012, 01:30:18 AM
Lane Striping...
Is it just me or are the lane lines on Nevada freeway (solid yellow, dashed white and solid white) wider than the lane lines on California freeways? If so, are the widen lane lines just a Nevada standard or is there something spelled out in the national MUTCD that California is not following? The lane lines on conventional highways like the current US 395 between NV-431 and Washoe Lake are the same width as those used on California freeways. I am aware that if bott dots (raised pavement markers) are used for lane striping (which I've found in the Las Vegas area), then the lane line width more closely matches California's.
As others have pointed out, the MUTCD allows for "normal" traffic stripe widths of 4 to 6 inches, and Nevada has gone with the wider stripe. Arizona uses it on their freeways as well. It confused me, too, the first time I drove into Nevada. California is considering using a 6-inch wide stripe on some freeways in urban areas in order to enhance the striping visibility and help address safety concerns.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 26, 2012, 01:30:18 AM
Tubular Sign Bridges...
As was mentioned in the "When will I-580 open" thread by roadfro, there are a number of tubular sign bridges going up on I-80 between Robb Drive and US 395. These appear to be the same as what's used in California although Caltrans tends to paint these structures a very dark green (see I-680 through Concord and I-580 north of CA-238). The ones in Reno appear to be unpainted. I'd love to see how the signs are mounted and whether they will be E-modified or Clearview (hopefully E-modified).
California also uses unpainted monotubes. Those are found in the Inland Empire and the toll roads in Orange County, and they are also going in on the new Express Lanes on I-10 and I-110 in Los Angeles.
Quote from: jrouse on July 28, 2012, 11:28:46 PM
As others have pointed out, the MUTCD allows for "normal" traffic stripe widths of 4 to 6 inches, and Nevada has gone with the wider stripe. Arizona uses it on their freeways as well. It confused me, too, the first time I drove into Nevada. California is considering using a 6-inch wide stripe on some freeways in urban areas in order to enhance the striping visibility and help address safety concerns.
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Caltrans already use the 6-inch wide broken line for HOV and Express Lane entry/exit points? For freeways paved in concrete, I would like to see the 4-inch white stripe enclosed in a 6-inch black stripe. That combination of contrasting colors would help improve visibility in my opinion. For obvious reasons, this striping scheme wouldn't work too well on an asphalt surface.
I did notice that on a section of CA-85 where the concrete pavement was rehabilitated around the I-280 interchange, black lane lines were put down along with the white botts dots. I like the contrasting colors but I'm thinking this must have been a contractor's error because I saw the new lane line on north 85 for the HOV lane and they were the standard white botts dots on a white stripe.
Caltrans uses 8 inch stripes for preferential lanes, in keeping with the MUTCD, which calls for double the normal striping width for preferential lane stripes. The switch to 6-inch stripe will create some challenges for preferential lane striping on those particular freeways where it will be used. A new preferential lane striping detail is being considered in order to address that situation.
I can't speak to the situation you observed on CA-85. It does sound like a contractor error, though.
Quote from: jrouse on July 30, 2012, 11:55:41 AM
I can't speak to the situation you observed on CA-85. It does sound like a contractor error, though.
It must have been a contractor's error because all of southbound 85 were striped over the weekend and the black lines have been replaced with the standard white lines with white botts dots.
Sounds like Oklahoma...here concrete roads receive alternating white and black stripes to enhance the contrast.
Quote from: roadfro on July 27, 2012, 04:27:36 AM
Quote
Tubular Sign Bridges...
As was mentioned in the "When will I-580 open" thread by roadfro, there are a number of tubular sign bridges going up on I-80 between Robb Drive and US 395. These appear to be the same as what's used in California although Caltrans tends to paint these structures a very dark green (see I-680 through Concord and I-580 north of CA-238). The ones in Reno appear to be unpainted. I'd love to see how the signs are mounted and whether they will be E-modified or Clearview (hopefully E-modified).
As mentioned previously, I'm guessing these will be FHWA signs and possibly not illuminated (NDOT's first experiments with non-lit overhead signs was along I-80 in downtown Reno, covering up old porcelains with new panels and removing the lighting fixtures).
I've seen CalTrans paint these monotube signs either green or a light tan (I think that's more common in SoCal). I don't think NDOT will be painting these poles though, but I could be wrong.
Following up this previous point: I saw a sign installation happening on I-80 last night for one of these new monotube signs. I was a ways away from the freeway, as I was detoured on side streets nearby because the sign install closed the freeway onramp that I would have used.
The sign appeared to be designed using FHWA lettering and no Clearview. Also, the sign did not appear to have the structure in place to support any typical lighting fixtures.
I'll report back when I get a chance to pass by again.
QuoteFollowing up this previous point: I saw a sign installation happening on I-80 last night for one of these new monotube signs. I was a ways away from the freeway, as I was detoured on side streets nearby because the sign install closed the freeway onramp that I would have used.
The sign appeared to be designed using FHWA lettering and no Clearview. Also, the sign did not appear to have the structure in place to support any typical lighting fixtures.
When you check out the new signs, I am curious to know whether NV 659 will receive a shield on the overhead signs on I-80. I doubt it, but it's possible. 659 is fairly well represented on recent official state maps, and I have wondered if NVDOT will emphasize the route designation now that it does a complete 360-degree loop around Reno-Sparks. When I went through there earlier this month, I saw the tubular poles, but no new signs were in place along I-80 yet.
On westbound, I looked for the "Route 80 Business Loop" sign alongside the road prior to McCarran Blvd, but I didn't see it. I wonder if that route is being deemphasized or eliminated. I saw some signs for the Business Loop on Victorian Ave and 4th Street, so I know the local signs are still mostly there (although many markers are quite old!).
Regards,
Andy
Quote from: andy3175 on August 21, 2012, 10:19:10 PM
When you check out the new signs, I am curious to know whether NV 659 will receive a shield on the overhead signs on I-80. I doubt it, but it's possible. 659 is fairly well represented on recent official state maps, and I have wondered if NVDOT will emphasize the route designation now that it does a complete 360-degree loop around Reno-Sparks. When I went through there earlier this month, I saw the tubular poles, but no new signs were in place along I-80 yet.
SR 659 is not likely to be placed on the new signs for McCarran Blvd. NDOT rarely signs urban state routes on its freeway signs. In fact, there are no shields for SR 659 anywhere along the route or at adjacent intersections (there are milepost panels throughout, though).
Quote from: andy
On westbound, I looked for the "Route 80 Business Loop" sign alongside the road prior to McCarran Blvd, but I didn't see it. I wonder if that route is being deemphasized or eliminated. I saw some signs for the Business Loop on Victorian Ave and 4th Street, so I know the local signs are still mostly there (although many markers are quite old!).
A new I-80 Business Loop sign (incorrectly using the red & blue shield instead of the business green version) was installed eastbound approaching Keystone Ave exit 12. I haven't seen one in the opposite direction.
The business loop itself isn't really referred to as such and popularized in any way, although it does still appear marked on some maps. Most of the shields in the field (especially those on East 4th Street) are really old, likely dating back to when the road was under state control.
Quote from: roadfro on August 23, 2012, 06:02:01 AM
Quote from: andy
On westbound, I looked for the "Route 80 Business Loop" sign alongside the road prior to McCarran Blvd, but I didn't see it. I wonder if that route is being deemphasized or eliminated. I saw some signs for the Business Loop on Victorian Ave and 4th Street, so I know the local signs are still mostly there (although many markers are quite old!).
A new I-80 Business Loop sign (incorrectly using the red & blue shield instead of the business green version) was installed eastbound approaching Keystone Ave exit 12. I haven't seen one in the opposite direction.
The business loop itself isn't really referred to as such and popularized in any way, although it does still appear marked on some maps. Most of the shields in the field (especially those on East 4th Street) are really old, likely dating back to when the road was under state control.
I would like to see what is present on that business loop. when I last scoured it (2010), there were some pretty unusual shields, like the "BUSINESS ROUTE I-80" shields in the black frames (I believe those were City of Reno or City of Sparks installations), and also some really, really old I-80 trailblazers.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19610805i1.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19610803i1.jpg)
that second one is gone, alas. it dates back to when old US-40 (Victorian Ave) was signed
as WEST I-80 as a reassurance - the TO and arrow being added later.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 26, 2012, 01:30:18 AM
I just spent most of last week in the Reno/Carson City area (Wednesday through Sunday) for a bowling tournament and there were a few new things I saw in Nevada that I hadn't seen over the past few years. FWIW, I make multiple trips to Reno or Las Vegas over the course of a year and these observations are coming from a native Californian.
Tubular Sign Bridges...
As was mentioned in the "When will I-580 open" thread by roadfro, there are a number of tubular sign bridges going up on I-80 between Robb Drive and US 395. These appear to be the same as what's used in California although Caltrans tends to paint these structures a very dark green (see I-680 through Concord and I-580 north of CA-238). The ones in Reno appear to be unpainted. I'd love to see how the signs are mounted and whether they will be E-modified or Clearview (hopefully E-modified).
My next foray into Nevada will come in late October when I head to Las Vegas for another bowling tournament I participate in each year. I can't wait until my next trip to Reno in 2013 so I can checkout the new I-580 freeway.
Also worth noting is the cantilevered truss sign bridges on I-580 NV with lighting and catwalks as found on freeways across California as discussed here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3253.msg161833#msg161833) and here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3253.msg162027#msg162027).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 23, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Quote from: roadfro on August 23, 2012, 06:02:01 AM
Quote from: andy
On westbound, I looked for the "Route 80 Business Loop" sign alongside the road prior to McCarran Blvd, but I didn't see it. I wonder if that route is being deemphasized or eliminated. I saw some signs for the Business Loop on Victorian Ave and 4th Street, so I know the local signs are still mostly there (although many markers are quite old!).
A new I-80 Business Loop sign (incorrectly using the red & blue shield instead of the business green version) was installed eastbound approaching Keystone Ave exit 12. I haven't seen one in the opposite direction.
The business loop itself isn't really referred to as such and popularized in any way, although it does still appear marked on some maps. Most of the shields in the field (especially those on East 4th Street) are really old, likely dating back to when the road was under state control.
I would like to see what is present on that business loop. when I last scoured it (2010), there were some pretty unusual shields, like the "BUSINESS ROUTE I-80" shields in the black frames (I believe those were City of Reno or City of Sparks installations), and also some really, really old I-80 trailblazers.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19610805i1.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NV/NV19610803i1.jpg)
that second one is gone, alas. it dates back to when old US-40 (Victorian Ave) was signed as WEST I-80 as a reassurance - the TO and arrow being added later.
The first pic...I forgot about those... Those are City of Sparks installations dating at least 2001 (those were present when I moved to Reno for school). These were new installs when Sparks put in new lamp posts and did some streetscape improvements along Victorian Ave. There's a decent number of these oddities, mainly between I-80 and Pyramid Way.
E 4th St has a couple interesting old Bus 80 shields, as well as some I-80 trailblazers. I remember seeing the sign assembly in the second photo and know where it is. I thought it was still there not too long ago...shame to see it go if it is gone.
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 23, 2012, 08:11:05 PM
Also worth noting is the cantilevered truss sign bridges on I-580 NV with lighting and catwalks as found on freeways across California as discussed here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3253.msg161833#msg161833) and here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3253.msg162027#msg162027).
Not necessarily worthy of note. Cantilevered signs are almost an everyday occurrence, and very common in Nevada and California.
Quote from: roadfro on August 24, 2012, 04:56:53 AM
The first pic...I forgot about those... Those are City of Sparks installations dating at least 2001 (those were present when I moved to Reno for school). These were new installs when Sparks put in new lamp posts and did some streetscape improvements along Victorian Ave. There's a decent number of these oddities, mainly between I-80 and Pyramid Way.
Jeff Royston took that photo in 2000, so bump that estimate back at least one year.
QuoteE 4th St has a couple interesting old Bus 80 shields, as well as some I-80 trailblazers. I remember seeing the sign assembly in the second photo and know where it is. I thought it was still there not too long ago...shame to see it go if it is gone.
gone as of Aug '11. replaced with a non-cutout shield! it's on a white square. I believe it also lacks the state name. definitely '70 spec.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 27, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: roadfro on July 27, 2012, 04:05:28 AM
I had not noticed those freeway entrance signs at all, although I am admittedly not a font expert--I can't distinguish FHWA from Clearview in all-caps on a small sign. It is worth noting that the northbound ramps at US 395 & Second/Glendale were reconstructed and all signage replaced in the same project that installed the Clearview guide signs...
The only thing that tipped me off that the directional banner was in Clearview was the letter 'S' in "SOUTH".
Apparently the directional banners I thought were in Clearview are in fact a custom font used by NDOT. I thought the 'S' in "SOUTH" was Clearview but after seeing photos posted in other threads, I realized my mistake.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 24, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: roadfro on August 24, 2012, 04:56:53 AM
E 4th St has a couple interesting old Bus 80 shields, as well as some I-80 trailblazers. I remember seeing the sign assembly in the second photo and know where it is. I thought it was still there not too long ago...shame to see it go if it is gone.
gone as of Aug '11. replaced with a non-cutout shield! it's on a white square. I believe it also lacks the state name. definitely '70 spec.
Now that I think about it, I had a different shield assembly in mind. Where is (was) this one?
Update about new signage on I-80 in Reno/Sparks:
Most of the new signs are already installed. Many design errors with old signage have been corrected, and new signs look quite good...although there is one oddity in using "Prater Way" instead of "Victorian Ave" for exit 16. The previous lack of interchange sequence signs in Sparks is no more. Some of these signs are lit from overhead (especially on curves), but most appear that they will remain unlit.
I think I've found the reason for using tubular supports... The Spaghetti Bowl interchange (JCT I-580/US 395) is being signed with arrow-per-lane diagrammatics that are HUGE! There's no way these would have been supported by NDOT's standard trusses as they're probably about twice as tall as the box truss depth.
Best of all...FHWA fonts have been used throughout--which makes me think even more that the use of Clearview on the US 395 north project was either a failed experiment or a fluke...
Also, new VMSs have been installed throughout the corridor, and there are now a couple separate white-on-blue travel time signs (not yet operational).
Folloups to previous messages:
* No SR 659 shields for either McCarran Blvd exit.
* A companion BL-80 BGS sign has been installed in the westbound direction just before the McCarran Blvd East interchange (exit 19).
Quote from: roadfro on September 13, 2012, 04:09:32 AM
I think I've found the reason for using tubular supports... The Spaghetti Bowl interchange (JCT I-580/US 395) is being signed with arrow-per-lane diagrammatics that are HUGE! There's no way these would have been supported by NDOT's standard trusses as they're probably about twice as tall as the box truss depth.
Best of all...FHWA fonts have been used throughout--which makes me think even more that the use of Clearview on the US 395 north project was either a failed experiment or a fluke...
Arrow-per-lane signs... interesting! Is that the case for both directions of I-80? I can't wait for my next trip to Reno to checkout these signs but that will have to wait until next July... ugh! I will definitely keep an eye out for any new signs on I-15 when I head to Vegas next month. I do recall seeing APL signs on the C/D roadway along I-15 south of the I-215 interchange but these signs were mounted on the standard NDOT truss and the arrow heights appear to be significantly reduced to make the signs fit.
If the NDOT truss is similar to Caltrans' standard truss (and by my eye, they are), then these new arrow-per-lane signs must be upwards of 200 inches tall, over 16 feet, in height! Perhaps if Caltrans were to ever adopt arrow-per-lane signs, they might follow NDOT's lead and use the tubular/monotube sign bridges however there's still the 120-inch maximum guide sign height limitation that needs to be overcome before APL signs can be used in California (unless changes to the arrow heights are made).
Roadfro, if you have the time and the ability, I would love to see some pictures of the new signs on I-80, especially the arrow-per-lane signs.
Oh, and no Clearview? Yay!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
^ Both directions of I-80 are receiving APL diagrammatic signage for the I-580/US 395 junction. Both westbound signs are installed, but only half of one sign (out of two required) was installed as I passed by yesterday. The sign panel is too big to install in one go.
These APL signs are by far the tallest overhead road signs I have personally ever seen--16+ feet in height is very likely. These look ridiculously large, and the arrows could probably be smaller to reduce panel area yet still convey the intent of the sign...
I likely won't have ability to get any photos...combination of no decent camera and no decent transportation cause my vehicle is out of order (I was a passenger in someone's car yesterday when I made observations).
Quote from: roadfro on September 14, 2012, 04:16:47 AM
^ Both directions of I-80 are receiving APL diagrammatic signage for the I-580/US 395 junction. Both westbound signs are installed, but only half of one sign (out of two required) was installed as I passed by yesterday. The sign panel is too big to install in one go.
These APL signs are by far the tallest overhead road signs I have personally ever seen--16+ feet in height is very likely. These look ridiculously large, and the arrows could probably be smaller to reduce panel area yet still convey the intent of the sign...
I likely won't have ability to get any photos...combination of no decent camera and no decent transportation cause my vehicle is out of order (I was a passenger in someone's car yesterday when I made observations).
No problem. Instead, I'll take a stab at drawing the new arrow-per-lane sign...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F80-580-395_apl.png&hash=515421664135acca7f4e13f761af73569ffae05e)
Did I come close?
that is a lot of whitespace.
greenspace, whatever.
but I already figured arrow-per-lane signs are ugly - nothing new here.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 14, 2012, 08:53:17 PM
No problem. Instead, I'll take a stab at drawing the new arrow-per-lane sign...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F80-580-395_apl.png&hash=515421664135acca7f4e13f761af73569ffae05e)
Did I come close?
Sorta... They seemed taller to me. And there's actually 3 through lanes, 1 option lane and 1 exit lane now (they striped for 4 lanes without full shoulders). The digits of the 580 shield are narrower than shown here--not sure if it's the 'standard' shield font compressed, or if they're using a smaller series font. Also, all signs for 580/395 include the airplane symbol now (to help lead to the airport without the former supplemental airport signs). The order of control cities might actually have Carson City on top, but I'm not sure.
Here it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs6xPo.jpg&hash=8579370c3f57956cd0f0c1034aeefdd77fc3ed35)
Quote from: Kniwt on October 06, 2012, 04:45:14 PM
Here it is:
Thanks for posting a photo Kniwt!
Well, I got kind of close. Here's an updated drawing that's a pretty close match to the photo...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F80-580-395_apl_update.png&hash=b8a0d54d546411cea69b278e2eee3d354dc1fa98)
As for that "580" font, I used 18" Series B digits in the drawing above. While it's a pretty close match, I'm not a real fan of the font choice because I find the digits way too narrow. I'd rather they used 15" Series D digits (would have looked like the 580 shield in my previous drawing on this topic).
The only other comment I have about the photo is NDOT's decision to put the light fixtures above the sign. IIRC, the only other places where I've seen this type of sign lighting is in Utah and Arizona.
Narrow 580 digits were used on all the interchange sequence signs leading up to the interchange. I agree that smaller series D digits probably would have looked better.
NDOT only installed the overhead lights (LED fixtures, btw) on these arrow-per-lane signs and a couple others. I'm guessing for the arrow-per-lane signs, it's because the signs are too tall to be fully and adequately lit by headlights. For a few other signs, I'm thinking lighting was used due to the signs being on curved sections of road. The vast majority of new signs on I-80 are not lit.
This isn't the first use of the Utah/Arizona style overhead sign lighting in Nevada. A number of signs on I-215 in Las Vegas near the I-15 interchange use a similar overhead style--although these were likely designed by Clark County during initial beltway construction and not an NDOT thing, like these I-80 lights would be.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 06, 2012, 09:32:11 PM
As for that "580" font, I used 18" Series B digits in the drawing above. While it's a pretty close match, I'm not a real fan of the font choice because I find the digits way too narrow. I'd rather they used 15" Series D digits (would have looked like the 580 shield in my previous drawing on this topic).
The signs on mainline I-580 are Series D, making it easy to tell who put up which sign.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 06, 2012, 09:32:11 PM
The only other comment I have about the photo is NDOT's decision to put the light fixtures above the sign. IIRC, the only other places where I've seen this type of sign lighting is in Utah and Arizona.
there are some examples of overlighting still around in California. CA-110 has a bunch.
http://goo.gl/maps/0kb1t
Wow they really did sign I-580. Interesting.
^ I believe NDOT always intended to sign it, or at least they have for the last decade or so. They have been waiting to make it meaningful to sign, which opening of the freeway extension made possible.
I would have Salt Lake City listed along with Elko as a control city.
Rick
Quote from: roadfro on November 01, 2012, 06:21:59 AM
^ I believe NDOT always intended to sign it, or at least they have for the last decade or so. They have been waiting to make it meaningful to sign, which opening of the freeway extension made possible.
Good point and now that it connects to another Major City Carson City all the more reason.
Quote from: nexus73 on November 01, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
I would have Salt Lake City listed along with Elko as a control city.
Rick
Salt Lake City used to be listed, but they took it down to replace it with Elko.
In my original post, I made some Nevada observations from my trip to the Reno area. In a subsequent post, I said I would be in Las Vegas in late October so here are my observations from the southern part of the state.
Arrow-per-Lane Signage Vegas-style...
Installation of arrow-per-lane signs were limited to the C/D roads that parallel I-15 between Blue Diamond and Tropicana. What I found interesting was the fact that these signs were approximately 120-inches tall, the same height as the maximum specified by Caltrans. Was was equally as interesting was that in some cases like the southbound exit for Russell Road, an arrow-per-lane sign was used for an exit that does not have a lane drop! Here's what I believe that sign looked like...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fvegas_apl.png&hash=04b2631d099643b287e7c795a316dcd7ac9fc42c)
I-15 C/D Roads...
I was impressed by the extensive use of braided ramps between Blue Diamond and Tropicana and how decorative the overpass designs and landscaping was. However, one beef I have is the ridiculously low 45 MPH speed limit on the C/D roads. Mainline I-15 has a 65 MPH speed limit so while I understand there is a lot more merging going on, to reduce the speed limit by 20 MPH is a bit excessive. I think 55 MPH is more appropriate. Another issue I have is the exit to Tropicana. Exit signs for Tropicana are posted at Blue Diamond directing those wanting to exit at Tropicana onto the C/D road. The problem is, Tropicana is a good 2+ miles away AND there's a second exit from mainline I-15 at Russell Road. Seeing this was my first time experiencing this new configuration, I used the C/D road not knowing of the second Tropicana exit and had to endure a 2+ mile drive on the C/D road at 45 MPH. :banghead:
Gas Prices...
In the past I always made a stop a Primm Valley to gas up figuring that gas should be cheaper than in California. On this past trip, I was sorely mistaken. Apparently, Primm to "too close" to California because gas prices in Primm were about the same as back home in San Jose. About 30+ miles down the road in Las Vegas, gas was anywhere from 40-60 cents cheaper! IIRC, Primm was $4.29 while Las Vegas was $3.69... lesson learned! FWIW, gas in Barstow was still in the $4.70 range! :wow:
I will be back in Las Vegas in March for another bowling tournament. This time, I plan on bringing my digital camera so I can snap some photos of the arrow-per-lane signs. Besides I will have a lot more free time on my hands so I need something extra to do to keep from spending all of my time in the casinos.
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 22, 2012, 03:10:38 AM
In my original post, I made some Nevada observations from my trip to the Reno area. In a subsequent post, I said I would be in Las Vegas in late October so here are my observations from the southern part of the state.
Arrow-per-Lane Signage Vegas-style...
Installation of arrow-per-lane signs were limited to the C/D roads that parallel I-15 between Blue Diamond and Tropicana. What I found interesting was the fact that these signs were approximately 120-inches tall, the same height as the maximum specified by Caltrans. Was was equally as interesting was that in some cases like the southbound exit for Russell Road, an arrow-per-lane sign was used for an exit that does not have a lane drop! Here's what I believe that sign looked like...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fvegas_apl.png&hash=04b2631d099643b287e7c795a316dcd7ac9fc42c)
I-15 C/D Roads...
I was impressed by the extensive use of braided ramps between Blue Diamond and Tropicana and how decorative the overpass designs and landscaping was. However, one beef I have is the ridiculously low 45 MPH speed limit on the C/D roads. Mainline I-15 has a 65 MPH speed limit so while I understand there is a lot more merging going on, to reduce the speed limit by 20 MPH is a bit excessive. I think 55 MPH is more appropriate. Another issue I have is the exit to Tropicana. Exit signs for Tropicana are posted at Blue Diamond directing those wanting to exit at Tropicana onto the C/D road. The problem is, Tropicana is a good 2+ miles away AND there's a second exit from mainline I-15 at Russell Road. Seeing this was my first time experiencing this new configuration, I used the C/D road not knowing of the second Tropicana exit and had to endure a 2+ mile drive on the C/D road at 45 MPH. :banghead:
Gas Prices...
In the past I always made a stop a Primm Valley to gas up figuring that gas should be cheaper than in California. On this past trip, I was sorely mistaken. Apparently, Primm to "too close" to California because gas prices in Primm were about the same as back home in San Jose. About 30+ miles down the road in Las Vegas, gas was anywhere from 40-60 cents cheaper! IIRC, Primm was $4.29 while Las Vegas was $3.69... lesson learned! FWIW, gas in Barstow was still in the $4.70 range! :wow:
I will be back in Las Vegas in March for another bowling tournament. This time, I plan on bringing my digital camera so I can snap some photos of the arrow-per-lane signs. Besides I will have a lot more free time on my hands so I need something extra to do to keep from spending all of my time in the casinos.
Interesting how Southern Nevada is similiar to Southern California with signage.
Having made that trip numerous times, a heads up is in California, Barstow is the cheapest place for gas, or Mojave Ca on Ca 58. Baker is the most expensive, and Primm or Jean Nevada are expensive as well.
Quote from: Interstate Trav on November 22, 2012, 03:35:40 AM
Interesting how Southern Nevada is similiar to Southern California with signage.
Could you elaborate on your first statement? While California and Nevada have some similarities, they are still quite different.
Quote from: Interstate Trav on November 22, 2012, 03:35:40 AM
Having made that trip numerous times, a heads up is in California, Barstow is the cheapest place for gas, or Mojave Ca on Ca 58. Baker is the most expensive, and Primm or Jean Nevada are expensive as well.
I guess everything's relative. I don't consider Barstow cheap at all but if you compare it to Baker, then of course Barstow is cheap. When I make this drive, I gas up in Bakersfield and I am just about able to make it in to Vegas. I used to gas up at Primm because I'd use the Primm Valley casino to use the restroom, grab a quick snack and drop a $20 into a slot machine.
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 22, 2012, 03:44:45 AM
Quote from: Interstate Trav on November 22, 2012, 03:35:40 AM
Interesting how Southern Nevada is similiar to Southern California with signage.
Could you elaborate on your first statement? While California and Nevada have some similarities, they are still quite different.
Quote from: Interstate Trav on November 22, 2012, 03:35:40 AM
Having made that trip numerous times, a heads up is in California, Barstow is the cheapest place for gas, or Mojave Ca on Ca 58. Baker is the most expensive, and Primm or Jean Nevada are expensive as well.
I guess everything's relative. I don't consider Barstow cheap at all but if you compare it to Baker, then of course Barstow is cheap. When I make this drive, I gas up in Bakersfield and I am just about able to make it in to Vegas. I used to gas up at Primm because I'd use the Primm Valley casino to use the restroom, grab a quick snack and drop a $20 into a slot machine.
The signing styled, with the type of overhead signs are similiar. They keep the speed limit 70, instead of raising to to 75 which anywhere else in Rural Nevada it is. I know the fonts are different, but the Freeway Entrance signs, things like that. They seem to be very similiar to California signing.
Yeah I agree Barstow isn't the cheapest gas station in the state just once on I-15 between there and Las Vegas it seems to be the cheapest.
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 22, 2012, 03:10:38 AM
Arrow-per-Lane Signage Vegas-style...
Installation of arrow-per-lane signs were limited to the C/D roads that parallel I-15 between Blue Diamond and Tropicana. What I found interesting was the fact that these signs were approximately 120-inches tall, the same height as the maximum specified by Caltrans. Was was equally as interesting was that in some cases like the southbound exit for Russell Road, an arrow-per-lane sign was used for an exit that does not have a lane drop! Here's what I believe that sign looked like...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fvegas_apl.png&hash=04b2631d099643b287e7c795a316dcd7ac9fc42c)
These are the first use of arrow-per-lane signs in Nevada, as the I-15 south design build project (I-15 from Blue Diamond to Tropicana, including C/D roads) was one of the first major NDOT projects completely designed after the 2009 MUTCD was adopted. The only other use of APLs in Nevada I am currently aware of are the massive signs on I-80 mainline approaching I-580/US 395 in Reno/Sparks.
Actually, there is a lane drop there and the sign shows a three arrow setup: One thru, one option, one drop (possibly without "exit only" panels, can't recall). The left side has shields for I-15, I-215 and CC-215, and the right side has Russell Road (possibly rendered on one line). The interesting part is that only the upstream sign looks like this, the downstream end at the gore uses a typical exit direction sign with one white on green arrow and one black on yellow arrow within an exit only panel.
Quote
I-15 C/D Roads...
I was impressed by the extensive use of braided ramps between Blue Diamond and Tropicana and how decorative the overpass designs and landscaping was. However, one beef I have is the ridiculously low 45 MPH speed limit on the C/D roads. Mainline I-15 has a 65 MPH speed limit so while I understand there is a lot more merging going on, to reduce the speed limit by 20 MPH is a bit excessive. I think 55 MPH is more appropriate. Another issue I have is the exit to Tropicana. Exit signs for Tropicana are posted at Blue Diamond directing those wanting to exit at Tropicana onto the C/D road. The problem is, Tropicana is a good 2+ miles away AND there's a second exit from mainline I-15 at Russell Road. Seeing this was my first time experiencing this new configuration, I used the C/D road not knowing of the second Tropicana exit and had to endure a 2+ mile drive on the C/D road at 45 MPH. :banghead:
I don't understand the 45mph speed limit on the C/D roads either. It's not like there are usually platoons of traffic merging on from side streets, as all the ramps are metered. Nobody goes that slow, and 55 would be more appropriate.
I am not sure why the northbound mainline signs include Tropicana at the exit for Russell, and agree with your assessment. It makes sense to sign that from the I-215 westbound on ramp (which it is), as that cuts down on weaving maneuvers.
NDOT has been putting a lot into interchange beautification in the last several major projects they've bid. Typically, they budget about 3% of project cost for aesthetics--so on a major project like this, they've put in a lot. Each interchange/overpass actually has different themes of plants and animals. They've done similar landscape treatments on US 95 in the northwest Las Vegas area, and on the recent I-80 project in Reno/Sparks.
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 22, 2012, 03:10:38 AM
Arrow-per-Lane Signage Vegas-style...
Installation of arrow-per-lane signs were limited to the C/D roads that parallel I-15 between Blue Diamond and Tropicana. What I found interesting was the fact that these signs were approximately 120-inches tall, the same height as the maximum specified by Caltrans. Was was equally as interesting was that in some cases like the southbound exit for Russell Road, an arrow-per-lane sign was used for an exit that does not have a lane drop! Here's what I believe that sign looked like...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fvegas_apl.png&hash=04b2631d099643b287e7c795a316dcd7ac9fc42c)
The actual signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8217%2F8355544538_f09335c874_c.jpg&hash=d12a4d502a8cb3e5712b7b9a95904c4f87c91c0b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8361%2F8355543034_9dec966896_c.jpg&hash=a94751e6924cdd77d10ec4ded8bad7e3701da04b)
Quote from: Interstate Trav on November 01, 2012, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on November 01, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
I would have Salt Lake City listed along with Elko as a control city.
Rick
Salt Lake City used to be listed, but they took it down to replace it with Elko.
Yeah. I noticed this when I drove through Reno in 2010. I think it's a tad asinine that Salt Lake gives Reno full control city status on its signs and Reno returns the favor by posting
Elko. I mean, really.
The old pull through signs in Reno used to say "Salt Lake" (instead of "Salt Lake City").
Apparently, the official AASHTO/FHWA/whatever control city listing puts Elko in between. NDOT has simply followed this on new signs.
Thanks for getting pictures CentralCAroadgeek. Looks like I was mistaken about the Russell Rd arrow-per-lane exit sign. I must of gotten it mixed up with the CC-215/I-215 exit sign pictured below...
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on January 06, 2013, 04:35:03 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8361%2F8355543034_9dec966896_c.jpg&hash=a94751e6924cdd77d10ec4ded8bad7e3701da04b)
If I read the MUTCD right, isn't the above sign an improper use of the arrow-per-lane guide signs?
Quote from: myosh_tino on January 07, 2013, 03:55:40 AM
If I read the MUTCD right, isn't the above sign an improper use of the arrow-per-lane guide signs?
Technically yes, as APL signs are supposed to be used at multi-lane exits or splits. The sign follows the spirit of that section, though.
Interestingly, both of the pictured APL signs are in violation of the MUTCD because they use the APL sign in advance, but at the actual split are pull-through and/or exit direction signs. The two types of signs are not supposed to be mixed.