I guess the plan is to open up the highway in September. It didn't look that way when I passed through the I-781 construction area last Saturday.
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120802/NEWS03/708029915/0/javascript.twitter.c: (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120802/NEWS03/708029915/0/javascript.twitter.c:)
Quote from: Dougtone on August 05, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
I guess the plan is to open up the highway in September. It didn't look that way when I passed through the I-781 construction area last Saturday.
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120802/NEWS03/708029915/0/javascript.twitter.c: (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120802/NEWS03/708029915/0/javascript.twitter.c:)
The bridge over NY Route 37 wasn't in place two months ago and I thought to myself there was no way that would be ready by the August timeframe. There must have been a lot progress in a short time.
I think that's all they did shortly after you passed by it. They seem to be doing one thing at a time with this project; the portion near Goulds Corners Road was nearly done at the time of the Watertown meet last year.
Right now the work seems be be on the finishing touches for the US 11 interchange and actually building the I-81 interchange.
PS: The article says "by early September" which I took to mean "in the end of August", especially since the original completion target for the project was 8/31/12.
I drove up by each end of Interstate 781 last night to see how close they are to opening it. Unfortunately it was dark when I was up there but there was enough ambient light to get an idea of where they are with the project.
It looks like they're still paving around the US Route 11 interchange. Traffic is still moved over to one side of US 11 as you pass under the bridge. The 11 SB to 781 ramp didn't look paved yet, but again, it was dark.
The bridge over NY 37 is still under construction. It's there but it looks like it's at least a couple weeks away from completion.
No signs or anything are in place, though the VMSes on US 11 are up. I was surprised to see that they put VMSes on 11.
I was in the area recently too; part of it (the ramps between US 11 and Fort Drum) is done and open to traffic, parts of it look nearly done (like the ramp from I-781 east to US 11), but parts of it look like construction has barely started (like the ramp from I-781 to I-81 north). There's even an end I-781 sign visible on US 11 north; wish I had my camera on me yesterday!
I'm guessing they plan to turn the NY 342 interchange into a half diamond; I've seen no plans to reconfigure it, but the ramps on the north side are WAY too close to the I-781 interchange. Ramps were eliminated on the NY 590 (then 47)/Norton Street interchange even though it's twice as far from the NY 104 interchange as the NY 342 and I-781 interchanges are.
A blip about the progress of the Fort Drum Connector in this article (No construction scheduled at Fort Drum in 2014) (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120914/NEWS03/709149881).
QuoteCol. Rosenberg said the Interstate 781 connector project, also known as the Paul Cerjan Memorial Highway, will be completed in late October or early November.
A few crappy cellphone pictures from Monday and today with progress...apologies for the crappiness.
First, from Monday, heading south down US11...apologies for the rain on my windshield, it was sprinkling at the time...yes, despite the sun and clouds. :pan:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3uuowl.jpg&hash=94e83d767622bed260f1c7bcca37f6d6ff709a93)
This I-781 shield shouldn't be uncovered yet...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F4Jffvl.jpg&hash=441556e2a2d921d26969c6bfa5f5306a754e0386)
A view of the SPUI with US11, heading south on 11.
The next batch are from today, heading north, starting with I-81:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaFBeJl.jpg&hash=b34b5b2c928eb956a0c3c912fc1d303bc67767ce)
Signposts for the new BGS, behind the current one.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXl6rTl.jpg&hash=e83e54f55975c15303c3b2ec98e498c39a5bc22a)
Empty gantry, at current Exit 48.
A view of the highway from the Goulds Corners Road overpass:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFBmEGl.jpg&hash=bae27c4f5394ba3ff3d0e308ce9c29311f19e09a)
Finally, northbound on US11 heading into the interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSrXxyl.jpg&hash=e224c81aef2485ff198e98654946b1d5908d48ac)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsocuWl.jpg&hash=d4fd91e0476a223218861fcb71c2887baeda9a8e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fg52Bbl.jpg&hash=beeba8218ab36bb388fcf9fb93bbea41d168158c)
is there a state name on that 781? New York contractors seem to install one every so often
Nope...boring neutered '70 spec shield.
But about the biggest JCT plate I've seen in ages.
Wow, aside from one shield, it looks just like it did last month!
For some reason the picture from Goulds Corners Road makes it look even less done than it was during the Watertown meet! Is that gravel? It was asphalt last year.
It's still paved, though it appears as if they're putting another overlay of asphalt on it. My cellphone takes shitty photos, but you know, had nothing else with me at the time. I don't think ahead like that...I was just passing through and thought "you know, I should take some update pictures to post on AARoads", whipped out the phone, narrowly avoided many accidents trying to snap pictures at ten miles over the speed limit, and there you go. :p
There are some "speed limit 45 ahead" signs up heading towards US-11, and some other smaller signs I couldn't make out...but otherwise, nothing.
And there is one other difference between now and when I drove through last month. The lights at the interchange are active now. :pan:
Given that they had the area at Goulds Corners Road paved, with Nellis Road still going through and others not started, I imagine the final layers would be going through now.
I remember they reduced the speed limit to 45 for the work zone; I have no idea if that's permanent or not. I do like that the right lane no longer funnels into Fort Drum, though I hopefully won't have reason to care about that ever again ;)
Looks like an interesting drive! :-D
Quote from: deanej on September 28, 2012, 10:26:34 AM
I remember they reduced the speed limit to 45 for the work zone; I have no idea if that's permanent or not. I do like that the right lane no longer funnels into Fort Drum, though I hopefully won't have reason to care about that ever again ;)
The sign's still there, though!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQyaYGl.jpg&hash=35e40c53d9724028e167510602bdb5c3e81eb57a)
I wouldn't be suprised if US 11 is going to see some work between NY 342 and I-781 after I-781 opens. It'll have a lot less traffic. Main thing would be to reconstruct the intersection with NY 342 to get rid of the soon to be oversized protected left turn lanes; one normal left turn lane, perhaps with a doghouse signal, should suffice after the traffic moves to I-781.
You mean put it back to the way it used to be, before all of the development within the past ten years caused by Fort Drum expansions? :pan:
Seriously, though, despite long-distance travellers and those heading to the base being largely moved onto the new highway, there will still likely be significant traffic up and down that stretch of US11, going to and from said development. Most of the traffic increases (and subsequent changes to the highway- that guardrail median has only been there seven years) were caused by the significant growth along the US11 corridor and the Fort Drum expansions. I don't think there will be such a drop in traffic where significant work would be necessary.
Besides, why bother paying to reverse fairly recent changes? Too many lanes are better than too few...
I drove through there last weekend but couldn't manage any decent pics. I did noticed a completely uncovered END 781 just beyond the bridge over US 11. The END sign is just as large as that JCT sign in the photos that Doug posted. I also noticed from the Goulds Corners Rd overpass that the speed limit on I-781 drops to 55 and then looks like it will drop again right before the US 11 bridge (I could see the new style speed zone ahead signs beyond the 55 signs, I think I saw 45 but I couldn't be sure.)
Quote from: cu2010 on September 29, 2012, 12:21:38 AM
You mean put it back to the way it used to be, before all of the development within the past ten years caused by Fort Drum expansions? :pan:
Seriously, though, despite long-distance travellers and those heading to the base being largely moved onto the new highway, there will still likely be significant traffic up and down that stretch of US11, going to and from said development. Most of the traffic increases (and subsequent changes to the highway- that guardrail median has only been there seven years) were caused by the significant growth along the US11 corridor and the Fort Drum expansions. I don't think there will be such a drop in traffic where significant work would be necessary.
Besides, why bother paying to reverse fairly recent changes? Too many lanes are better than too few...
I wouldn't go that far, but don't you agree that the 1/2 mile long two fully protected left turn lanes from NY 342 east to US 11 north are going to be a major annoyance at that light once I-781 is done?
Work is apparently nearly complete; the highway is targeted for opening by Thanksgiving.
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drum-Connector-Road-Nearly-Complete-175090801.html
Hopefully this deadline will stick... I remember when it was supposed to open this month, and when it was supposed to open by the end of August! In the time Indiana built 100 miles of I-69, NYSDOT can't even build a short freeway like I-781!
This is New York we're talking about...they can't do anything on time! :pan:
Looks like this won't be opening until after I graduate. The contractor claims they'll be done by the end of November, but that's contingent on getting many days around Thanksgiving where temperatures don't dip below 50... there's a better chance of hell freezing over than that happening. They should have done that FIRST, not last! This contracter is clearly incompetent. Anybody who lives in the area could have told them that these delays would happen. Where do they think this is, southern California?
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20121025/NEWS03/710259892
Took a look at I-781 progress today. It's still not open, though the overhead signs at the US 11 have been installed. US 11 North has "Gouverneur / Canton" for destinations, US 11 SOUTH made me cringe because it looks like this:
Watertown
+------------+
| Downtown |
+------------+
instead of just saying "Downtown Watertown". Basically the word "Downtown" is in a smaller letter height and surrounded by a box. I don't know where that idea came from because it's not listed in any manual I've ever seen.
The overhead signs have not been installed on I-81 as of yet. The I-781 signs at the SPUI on US 11 are up but covered with not even a hint of legend showing.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on November 11, 2012, 12:26:01 AM
Took a look at I-781 progress today. It's still not open, though the overhead signs at the US 11 have been installed. US 11 North has "Gouverneur / Canton" for destinations, US 11 SOUTH made me cringe because it looks like this:
Watertown
+------------+
| Downtown |
+------------+
instead of just saying "Downtown Watertown". Basically the word "Downtown" is in a smaller letter height and surrounded by a box. I don't know where that idea came from because it's not listed in any manual I've ever seen.
Seems to be a standard for NYSDOT, or perhaps just Region 3?
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_york080/i-081_sb_exit_029n_05.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_york080/i-081_nb_exit_023_01.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_york080/i-081_nb_exit_026_05.jpg)
NYSDOT does that stupid box thing all across the state.
It's extremely prevalent in Region 8, which is where I remember first seeing it.
Region 2 is infamous for it. It's no longer in our standards as an option, but they're still around. Someone probably forgot to tell the contractor.
Quote from: deanej on November 11, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
Region 2 is infamous for it. It's no longer in our standards as an option, but they're still around. Someone probably forgot to tell the contractor.
Region 2 stopped doing it with the adoption of the 2009 MUTCD. I think Region 8 has stopped as well. Region 3 has been patching over the boxed names with the proper legend-type on a hit or miss basis.
I think the "boxed road name" first appeared in the NYSMUTCD back in '83 or so but didn't start really appearing on upstate signs until the early 90s. The first time I saw it R3 had used it on the I-81 Exit 23/24 panels. R2 went crazy with it. The other regions (outside of R8) didn't seem to ever adopt it. Since the NYSMUTCD only specified road names were to have a box, I have no idea why the engineer of this panel thought it would be appropriate to box the word Downtown. That's just weird. If he or she wanted to bring attention to the fact that US 11 South headed to Downtown Watertown, they could have underlined the word Downtown or something. That would make it much more legible instead of that dumb box around a smaller letter height.
I just contacted NYSDOT via email regarding this. They must hate me. I average a NYSDOT email every 8-10 weeks or so. :)
My NYSDOT region (10, Long Island) never does the box thing; I've never seen it here. NYC (Reg. 11) doesn't seem to do it either. I only see it when I go upstate.
Quote from: jasonsk287 on November 11, 2012, 09:10:34 PM
NYC (Reg. 11) doesn't seem to do it either. I only see it when I go upstate.
Worth pointing out that NYSDOT only really installs signs on interstates in the city. The Parkways are all NYCDOT signage.
I-781 is in Region 7. Which is one of the best regions in the state when it comes to not replacing perfectly good signs. Unfortunately, when they DO replace signs, the replacements are just awful.
Quote from: cu2010 on November 12, 2012, 03:57:45 AM
I-781 is in Region 7. Which is one of the best regions in the state when it comes to not replacing perfectly good signs. Unfortunately, when they DO replace signs, the replacements are just awful.
I think R7 is the only region where I saw a boxed street name in button copy, for Exit 51's "Island Road" on I-81. I didn't think they continued the practice after that.
Judging by the new exit signage on I-81 north for NY 12F, they have not. I believe Exit 52 has a boxed Island Rd as well. There's also a really ugly sign on US 11 north where NY 37 splits off, but no boxing there.
Wisconsin has some instances of such highlighting, except that it is green letters on a white background.
Mike
Quote from: Duke87 on November 11, 2012, 10:29:05 PM
Quote from: jasonsk287 on November 11, 2012, 09:10:34 PM
NYC (Reg. 11) doesn't seem to do it either. I only see it when I go upstate.
Worth pointing out that NYSDOT only really installs signs on interstates in the city. The Parkways are all NYCDOT signage.
--really ++nominally
or
--installs ++leaves up
Quote from: upstatenyroads on November 11, 2012, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: deanej on November 11, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
Region 2 is infamous for it. It's no longer in our standards as an option, but they're still around. Someone probably forgot to tell the contractor.
Region 2 stopped doing it with the adoption of the 2009 MUTCD. I think Region 8 has stopped as well. Region 3 has been patching over the boxed names with the proper legend-type on a hit or miss basis.
I think the "boxed road name" first appeared in the NYSMUTCD back in '83 or so but didn't start really appearing on upstate signs until the early 90s. The first time I saw it R3 had used it on the I-81 Exit 23/24 panels. R2 went crazy with it. The other regions (outside of R8) didn't seem to ever adopt it. Since the NYSMUTCD only specified road names were to have a box, I have no idea why the engineer of this panel thought it would be appropriate to box the word Downtown. That's just weird. If he or she wanted to bring attention to the fact that US 11 South headed to Downtown Watertown, they could have underlined the word Downtown or something. That would make it much more legible instead of that dumb box around a smaller letter height.
I just contacted NYSDOT via email regarding this. They must hate me. I average a NYSDOT email every 8-10 weeks or so. :)
I should probably point out here that along with Breezewood, I-99 and sequential exit numbering, the boxed street names have never bothered me. Go figure!
Just went by yesterday.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg805.imageshack.us%2Fimg805%2F3377%2F1007354.jpg&hash=6a0abee1d8223cfaa71df5b4d93a32e8c5fa0523)
This Jct plat is WAY oversized.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F8302%2F1007355k.jpg&hash=1f7636d6de6c32e6f5f152737f382d30241ed355)
The sign from earlier. This doesn't conform to the boxed street name specs... also, note the car to the right of the cones (not the one parked by the speed limit sign). I don't know what it is, but it got on I-781 west right after I took this despite it not being opened (though it looks like all they need to do is uncover the US 11 signs and install the I-81 signs... it's striped and everything, and construction vehicles are already using it to bypass NY 342).
A bunch of signs are loaded up on trucks at the sign shop in Yorkville. I couldn't see very many of them since it was dark, but it looks like Exit 48 is going to be relabeled NY 342 - To NY 3 - To NY 37 / Black River / Carthage (with appropriate route markers, of course). I couldn't confirm any other signs, but I *think* one of them might have been marked I-781 - To US 11. I'll try to look again in the daylight tomorrow.
Yep...that JCT I-781 sign is just as uncovered as it was almost two months ago.
Guess covering it back up involves too much effort for them. :pan:
And holy crap, that US11 sign is awful. Not only does "Downtown" look utterly stupid boxed in like that, it's way too small...and maybe it's just the picture, but something about "Watertown" looks off as well.
It wouldn't be the first time. A number of years back, it took a while for some of the uncovered I-86 shields around Binghamton to be covered up once more.
I think in that case NYSDOT just asked for approval to sign it rather than cover them back up!
As of right now, the only work that was done since last Tuesday was to place a "road closed" sign on the ramp to I-781 west from US 11. I guess NY isn't making the contractor work over Thanksgiving (you'd think the would, given that the road is already three months late! They should be working overtime to get it done).
http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/20958/20121127/fort-drum-connector-road-to-i-81-set-to-open-soon (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/20958/20121127/fort-drum-connector-road-to-i-81-set-to-open-soon)
So, the Fort Drum Connector may not open by the end of November. However, NYSDOT is looking for an opening sometime within the next two weeks. I'll have to keep on monitoring the local news websites (like the Watertown Daily Times, for instance) until I can get a confirmed opening day.
Well, it's already striped at the US 11 interchange, so that's been done... what else could they possibly need to do? Isn't striping the last thing to get done on a road?
I'll go crazy if this thing isn't open before the end of the semester! They should have been aiming to have it open before August to get the college traffic. I hope NYSDOT never uses this contractor again!
Quote from: deanej on November 27, 2012, 12:01:58 PM
Well, it's already striped at the US 11 interchange, so that's been done... what else could they possibly need to do? Isn't striping the last thing to get done on a road?
I'll go crazy if this thing isn't open before the end of the semester! They should have been aiming to have it open before August to get the college traffic. I hope NYSDOT never uses this contractor again!
I don't think the signs are up on I-81 yet. That'll take at least a week, barring weather difficulties.
Yes, but how could is possibly take a week to install signage? I would think it would take a day, tops. Do they install one sign and then stop all work until the next day? That seems to be how they're approaching this project. If I were NYSDOT, I would expect all the workers to be doing double shifts with no days off until the road is completed.
Quote from: deanej on November 28, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
Yes, but how could is possibly take a week to install signage? I would think it would take a day, tops. Do they install one sign and then stop all work until the next day? That seems to be how they're approaching this project. If I were NYSDOT, I would expect all the workers to be doing double shifts with no days off until the road is completed.
Maybe this includes some of the overhead gantries?
Quote from: Steve on November 28, 2012, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on November 28, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
Yes, but how could is possibly take a week to install signage? I would think it would take a day, tops. Do they install one sign and then stop all work until the next day? That seems to be how they're approaching this project. If I were NYSDOT, I would expect all the workers to be doing double shifts with no days off until the road is completed.
Maybe this includes some of the overhead gantries?
Generally, they set the posts first and have to leave them in place for several days for the concrete to set up before they mount the signs.
Quote from: Steve on November 28, 2012, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on November 28, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
Yes, but how could is possibly take a week to install signage? I would think it would take a day, tops. Do they install one sign and then stop all work until the next day? That seems to be how they're approaching this project. If I were NYSDOT, I would expect all the workers to be doing double shifts with no days off until the road is completed.
Maybe this includes some of the overhead gantries?
If memory serves me correctly, I believe that some of the overhead gantry installations for I-781 along I-81 were in place by late August. This was the last time I passed through Fort Drum Connector construction.
The last overhead gantries were installed in August. The other posts were in place months before the Watertown meet last year. All they need to do is install the signs.
My guesstimate for a week to install the signs at the I-81/I-781 interchange was because there are a lot of overhead panels involved with the work and with the current weather conditions and required lane closures and the like, it might be more challenging than when they should have done this work in the warmer months.
The big question is, will they put up a new "Canada 25" mileage sign beyond the I-81/I-781 NB interchange. Back in '86 there was a sign installed that said "1000 Islands Bridge 22 / Canada 25" but was then removed when the newer non-button copy signs were installed (maybe '96 or so). I had contacted R7 about the removal and non-replacement of the post-interchange mileage signs and they put that "Canada 25" sign up. It came down with the interchange construction. I wonder if a new one will replace it.
Quote from: deanej on November 21, 2012, 12:13:42 PM
Just went by yesterday.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg805.imageshack.us%2Fimg805%2F3377%2F1007354.jpg&hash=6a0abee1d8223cfaa71df5b4d93a32e8c5fa0523)
This Jct plat is WAY oversized.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F8302%2F1007355k.jpg&hash=1f7636d6de6c32e6f5f152737f382d30241ed355)
The sign from earlier. This doesn't conform to the boxed street name specs... also, note the car to the right of the cones (not the one parked by the speed limit sign). I don't know what it is, but it got on I-781 west right after I took this despite it not being opened (though it looks like all they need to do is uncover the US 11 signs and install the I-81 signs... it's striped and everything, and construction vehicles are already using it to bypass NY 342).
I heard back from R7. The covered sign says "Watertown / Arsenal St / Canada", where the Arsenal St is smaller and boxed like Downtown shown in the picture above. They decided on the box instead of parenthesis when comparing designs.
I appreciate that they're trying to distinguish Arsenal St from Downtown when ending up with Watertown as a control destination on both signs (which goes against MUTCD) and I understand what they're trying to do, but I think an R2 approach might have worked better --
Downtown
Watertown
(on the left hand panel)
and
To Arsenal St
Watertown
(on the right hand panel)
Finally some good news!
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20121205/NEWS09/712059721
Now I have to decide: do I want to spend the gas it would take to get to Watertown and back? Time's not a consideration here (I'm bored), but money is.
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
Interestingly, the exit from I-781 to US11 is labelled as "Exit 4"...
Quote from: cu2010 on December 05, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
And in that video, they showed a BYS that clearly states that I-781 ends @ US-11. Should make it safer to "clinch" so you don't have to deal with the guards. ;)
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 06, 2012, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: cu2010 on December 05, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
And in that video, they showed a BYS that clearly states that I-781 ends @ US-11. Should make it safer to "clinch" so you don't have to deal with the guards. ;)
Good to know, I would have called it good at the interchange ahead of it either way.
If I can see it with my eyes in the distance, it is good enough for me to consider it clinched. Same goes for me on roads that end at a customs station.If anyone photographs it, may I request a few pics for Interstate-Guide?
Nice. I'll submit a CHM update as soon as I can gather all of the information about the new exit numbers. Is it 48A on I-81? Is there an exit number for I-781 where it ends at I-81? Any other exits between there and the "Exit 4" at US 11?
Quote from: Alex on December 06, 2012, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 06, 2012, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: cu2010 on December 05, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
And in that video, they showed a BYS that clearly states that I-781 ends @ US-11. Should make it safer to "clinch" so you don't have to deal with the guards. ;)
Good to know, I would have called it good at the interchange ahead of it either way. If I can see it with my eyes in the distance, it is good enough for me to consider it clinched. Same goes for me on roads that end at a customs station.
If anyone photographs it, may I request a few pics for Interstate-Guide?
I'll be driving down there on 12/16 and should have a bunch of pictures you can use.
Quote from: Jim on December 06, 2012, 10:33:28 AM
Nice. I'll submit a CHM update as soon as I can gather all of the information about the new exit numbers. Is it 48A on I-81? Is there an exit number for I-781 where it ends at I-81? Any other exits between there and the "Exit 4" at US 11?
The plans said 48A from I-81, 1 from I-781 to I-81, 2 for US 11, and 3 for Fort Drum; there's nothing in between. Given that we know that US 11 is actually 4 and that Fort Drum is not numbered, I'm not sure if we can trust the other numbers either. We'll have to wait for someone to get sign pictures.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 06, 2012, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: cu2010 on December 05, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
And in that video, they showed a BYS that clearly states that I-781 ends @ US-11. Should make it safer to "clinch" so you don't have to deal with the guards. ;)
Not so clear to me -- the BYS says "I-781 ends -- Route US 11 traffic next exit 1/4 mile". Doesn't specify whether the end is at the US 11 interchange, or just east of it at the Fort Drum main gate. though the BGS at the US 11 exit doesn't say that I-781 continues beyond that point, either. If the BYS had said "I-781 ends at US 11" that'd be clear enough, but it doesn't.
I'd be curious whether there are any I-781 reference markers east of US 11, though the gap between US 11 and the Fort Drum gate might be short enough that there will be no markers no matter what if any route number is assigned to that gap. (What's the normal spacing between NYSDOT reference markers -- tenth-mile, or more than that?)
As I've suggested before, someone could venture into that gap armed with a legitimate reason to enter the base (maybe not on weekends, if facilities open to civilians are open only during the week). Or you could just plan on taking the U-turn opportunity the video indicates is available just before the gate. Even if neither works, and you get politely turned back, you'll still have a chance to check out any reference markers, etc. between US 11 and the gate. Fort Drum does allow civilian visitors, though they need to get permission (probably at an adjacent visitor center, typical for military bases) before continuing past the gate area.
But no photos of the gate area, at least heading toward the base, so we'll have to take your word on what you find or don't find.
There's an end I-781 shield just past the bridge. Haven't gotten a chance to get a picture of it on my last few trips up US 11 though.
It appears that I-781 uses mile based exit numbers!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Interstate-781-Opens-To-Rave-Reviews-182434021.html
This at least shows a sign for 4, can't say for any others though.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on December 06, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Interstate-781-Opens-To-Rave-Reviews-182434021.html
This at least shows a sign for 4, can't say for any others though.
YNN has a video of coverage as well, showing the backs of the signs at the I-781/I-81 interchange and there are definitely exit tabs for the I-81 exits. My guess is Exits 1 A-B.
Quote from: deanej on December 06, 2012, 12:00:25 PM
Quote from: Alex on December 06, 2012, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 06, 2012, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: cu2010 on December 05, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
Now with video!
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fort-Drums-Connector-Highway-Opens-Thursday-182239731.html
And in that video, they showed a BYS that clearly states that I-781 ends @ US-11. Should make it safer to "clinch" so you don't have to deal with the guards. ;)
Good to know, I would have called it good at the interchange ahead of it either way. If I can see it with my eyes in the distance, it is good enough for me to consider it clinched. Same goes for me on roads that end at a customs station.
If anyone photographs it, may I request a few pics for Interstate-Guide?
I'll be driving down there on 12/16 and should have a bunch of pictures you can use.
That seems to be The Date. I may have to make my way up, but that's in the future. As for the end of the route, I would plan to use the U-turn just before the base. They may not be happy with it, but I guarantee you they see plenty of people using it because they're not familiar with the road.
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2012, 04:29:43 PMThey may not be happy with it, but I guarantee you they see plenty of people using it because they're not familiar with the road.
how many show up in groups of 12 and start photographing the terminus?
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 07, 2012, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on December 06, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Interstate-781-Opens-To-Rave-Reviews-182434021.html
This at least shows a sign for 4, can't say for any others though.
YNN has a video of coverage as well, showing the backs of the signs at the I-781/I-81 interchange and there are definitely exit tabs for the I-81 exits. My guess is Exits 1 A-B.
My guess was wrong, a video on YouTube shows Exits 1 N-S. Also, the BEGIN 781 marker is right at the US 11 bridge from what I can tell.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 07, 2012, 08:50:29 PM
My guess was wrong, a video on YouTube shows Exits 1 N-S. Also, the BEGIN 781 marker is right at the US 11 bridge from what I can tell.
Here's that video:
Here's a good question: what's with the 45 mph limits on either end of the road? On the west end, there should be no reduction, and on the east end, the reduction should happen at the bridge, not half a mile before US 11.
The state needs money, silly. If they can't put a toll on the road, they'll just get everyone with their artificially low speed limits instead! :pan:
Quote from: deanej on December 08, 2012, 12:04:10 PM
Here's a good question: what's with the 45 mph limits on either end of the road? On the west end, there should be no reduction, and on the east end, the reduction should happen at the bridge, not half a mile before US 11.
I was wondering the same thing, but as cu2012 said, it probably has to do with revenue generation.
I noticed in the video that mileposts and NYSDOT reference markers have not been installed as of yet.
'Course, those of us who are active duty don't have that "need to turn around" issue...
This story doesn't add anything new, but is noteworthy because the photo was taken during a roadmeet: http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/21021/20121206/i-781-to-fort-drum-opens
What's the white stuff on the pavement? Brine? Had they pretreated in anticipation of snow?
Probably road salt. Roads in upstate NY get COVERED with it in the winter, such that cars actually drive on road salt and not asphalt during the winter months. Plus, right after Thanksgiving, the infamous Lake Ontario Snowbelt got six inches of snow within a few hours. Going back to Clarkson, I was one of the last cars up I-81 north before it was closed; southbound was closed already and I must have passed at least 30 cars in the ditch within an hour. The storm wasn't even unusual, it just happened to be the first storm before drivers remember what snow is.
Photos at 128.153.144.91/i781
They're rather grainy, as it was raining, I was getting a fair amount of spray on the car (especially thanks to one bozo who thought it would be nice to sit in the left lane right in front of me at the same speed I was doing; when I passed him, he decided to go faster to try to prevent me from passing, at least until I went 75 for two miles and he figured out that he couldn't be an asshole without risking a ticket). Plus my camera isn't nearly as good at focusing as it used to be. My wiper blades streak really badly too.
Nice pics, especially given the weather.
Where are the US 3 goofs at?
My goodness...some of those signs belong in The Worst of Road Signs...
...what the hell happened, Region 7? You used to be so good with signage...
I suppose even though it's been reported already that it would, that the mileage-based exit number in NY is newsworthy.
Quote from: exit322 on December 17, 2012, 09:55:02 AM
I suppose even though it's been reported already that it would, that the mileage-based exit number in NY is newsworthy.
I was hoping that I-81 Exit 48 A would be labeled Exit 161, but no such luck. I find it odd that US 11 is numbered as Exit 4, but I-81 is numbered Exits 1 N-S instead of Exits 1 A-B.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 17, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
I was hoping that I-81 Exit 48 A would be labeled Exit 161, but no such luck. I find it odd that US 11 is numbered as Exit 4, but I-81 is numbered Exits 1 N-S instead of Exits 1 A-B.
I figure this is just baby steps for NYS.
For the record, here's the trip I used to get the photos:
-US 11 south to I-781
-I-781 west then I-81 south
-U turn at NY 12 then I-781 east (I didn't consider it worth it to drive 23 miles just to get the southbound signage)
-US 11 north then U turn at Pizza Hut (also discovered this is now a RIRO with a new road intersecting US 11 1/4 mile north)
-I-781 west again
-I-81 south
-NY 3, quick jog down CR 75 to see the lighthouse near Sackets Harbor
-NY 3 "south" (now signed east-west?)
-CR 178 and Lighthouse Rd to see the Stony Point Lighthouse; u turn
-NY 178 to I-81 then my usual I-81 south, I-90 west, I-490, I-590 to home.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 16, 2012, 06:40:49 PM
Nice pics, especially given the weather.
Where are the US 3 goofs at?
Jefferson CR 75 southbound just south of Sackets Harbor.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 17, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
Quote from: exit322 on December 17, 2012, 09:55:02 AM
I suppose even though it's been reported already that it would, that the mileage-based exit number in NY is newsworthy.
I was hoping that I-81 Exit 48 A would be labeled Exit 161, but no such luck. I find it odd that US 11 is numbered as Exit 4, but I-81 is numbered Exits 1 N-S instead of Exits 1 A-B.
My calculation for the mile-based exit number is 159 actually. I suspect they didn't want to insert a mile-based number on an otherwise sequential road (note that NY 17 also used sequential for the new exits that have been added). I'm also surprised that it's 1N-S instead of 1A-B.
Quote from: deanej on December 17, 2012, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 17, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
I was hoping that I-81 Exit 48 A would be labeled Exit 161, but no such luck. I find it odd that US 11 is numbered as Exit 4, but I-81 is numbered Exits 1 N-S instead of Exits 1 A-B.
My calculation for the mile-based exit number is 159 actually. I suspect they didn't want to insert a mile-based number on an otherwise sequential road (note that NY 17 also used sequential for the new exits that have been added). I'm also surprised that it's 1N-S instead of 1A-B.
That's right. I forgot I needed to recatalog Interstate 81 for my site. The milepost data on my site is based on the old milemarkers, which "slid" to the south by about a mile back in the early-mid 2000s. I have a project for this weekend! :)
I just measure everything with Google Maps. Ending mile calculations for the Thruway, I-90, I-87, and NY 17 suffer for this though.
Quote from: oscar on December 06, 2012, 12:14:38 PM
I'd be curious whether there are any I-781 reference markers east of US 11, though the gap between US 11 and the Fort Drum gate might be short enough that there will be no markers no matter what if any route number is assigned to that gap. (What's the normal spacing between NYSDOT reference markers -- tenth-mile, or more than that?)
I drove the route earlier today. There are now "781I" tenth-mile reference markers along the entire route -- including three on the eastbound side between the "End" sign at US 11 and the Fort Drum gate. That suggests that I-781 extends east of US 11.
BTW, after clinching I-781, I continued past the gate into Fort Drum. No hassle at all -- I just showed the sentry my driver's license to supply the required photo ID, and briefly explained that I wanted to visit the base museum, it took him only a few seconds to wave me through. (Other military bases are less welcoming of civilian visitors, so YMMV.) People can also use a median crossover a few feet west of the gate, to get back on the westbound freeway without having to deal with the sentries.
Quote from: oscar on January 02, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 06, 2012, 12:14:38 PM
I'd be curious whether there are any I-781 reference markers east of US 11, though the gap between US 11 and the Fort Drum gate might be short enough that there will be no markers no matter what if any route number is assigned to that gap. (What's the normal spacing between NYSDOT reference markers -- tenth-mile, or more than that?)
I drove the route earlier today. There are now "781I" tenth-mile reference markers along the entire route -- including three on the eastbound side between the "End" sign at US 11 and the Fort Drum gate. That suggests that I-781 extends east of US 11.
BTW, after clinching I-781, I continued past the gate into Fort Drum. No hassle at all -- I just showed the sentry my driver's license to supply the required photo ID, and briefly explained that I wanted to visit the base museum, it took him only a few seconds to wave me through. (Other military bases are less welcoming of civilian visitors, so YMMV.) People can also use a median crossover a few feet west of the gate, to get back on the westbound freeway without having to deal with the sentries.
What's at the base museum? May be worth the visit instead of the U-turn.
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2013, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: oscar on January 02, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 06, 2012, 12:14:38 PM
I'd be curious whether there are any I-781 reference markers east of US 11, though the gap between US 11 and the Fort Drum gate might be short enough that there will be no markers no matter what if any route number is assigned to that gap. (What's the normal spacing between NYSDOT reference markers -- tenth-mile, or more than that?)
I drove the route earlier today. There are now "781I" tenth-mile reference markers along the entire route -- including three on the eastbound side between the "End" sign at US 11 and the Fort Drum gate. That suggests that I-781 extends east of US 11.
BTW, after clinching I-781, I continued past the gate into Fort Drum. No hassle at all -- I just showed the sentry my driver's license to supply the required photo ID, and briefly explained that I wanted to visit the base museum, it took him only a few seconds to wave me through. (Other military bases are less welcoming of civilian visitors, so YMMV.) People can also use a median crossover a few feet west of the gate, to get back on the westbound freeway without having to deal with the sentries.
What's at the base museum? May be worth the visit instead of the U-turn.
It's a pretty small museum, a few minutes from the base gate. I found it semi-interesting, as someone from a military family (my father was a Marine), but it's really geared to military personnel and their families who want to know more about the history of the base and the Army's 10th Mountain Division, and also to building good relations with the local community. The museum is usually open 10am-5pm weekdays.
It sounds like Fort Drum likes civilian visitors (http://watertown.ynn.com/content/video_stories/503069/fort-drum-gates-open-to-public-for-nature-activities-and-food/?ap=1&MP4), even for things like birdwatching and other nature activities, unlike some other military facilities (like "Area 51" in Nevada) that definitely put out the unwelcome mat for visitors (//www.alaskaroads.com/area51-unwelcome-signs.jpg). Even if a reason/excuse to visit Fort Drum is needed at all, it doesn't have to be the museum. (Of course, if the base is under heightened security for some reason, you might be turned around no matter what.)
I'm happy to hear that R7 put up 781I reference markers. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that R8 had put up I-84 (instead of 84I) reference markers on I-84 in Dutchess County. Yes, they included the dash.
Any mileposts to go along with the distance numbered exit?
Quote from: upstatenyroads on January 04, 2013, 06:34:56 AM
Any mileposts to go along with the distance numbered exit?
I don't recall seeing any, but I wasn't really looking for them either.
One thing I had noticed during my I-781 trip back on the 15th of December was a lack of reassurance shields along the highway. There were a few mentions of I-781 as you were approaching each end of the Fort Drum Connector, but nothing when one entered the highway.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on January 04, 2013, 06:34:56 AM
I'm happy to hear that R7 put up 781I reference markers. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that R8 had put up I-84 (instead of 84I) reference markers on I-84 in Dutchess County. Yes, they included the dash.
Any mileposts to go along with the distance numbered exit?
No mileposts, but there is an eastbound reassurance shield just past I-81 (didn't look for a westbound one) and town line signs have been added.