Does anyone have (or know where there is) a picture of a PA 9 shield from back when the Northeast Extension was signed as that? I know a BGS on the PA 100 interchange approaching the Turnpike that says "To I-476," and you can see the PA 9 shield under it.
We took the Northeast Extension many times during our roadtrips in 1993 and 1994. I did a lot of video back then and made a few vidcaps in 1998-99 for the original AA Sign Gallery. Here are two from 1993 I had posted:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-76-276.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-276-pa-9.jpg)
Quote from: Alex on August 16, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-76-276.jpg)
It's interesting that the old eastbound sign (taken at the Norristown interchange) has the
Northeastern Extension somewhat staggered rather than fully-center-justified. The PA 9 shield was obviously slapped on later when the road actually received a route number designation.
Those signs were replaced with the current signs (with the westbound BGS erroneously reading
76 WEST) during the mid-90s.
Quote from: Alex on August 16, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-76-276.jpg)
Harrisburg
Pittsburgh
and Ohio
I don't think I've ever seen control cities signed like that before.
There must have been some small shield formerly next to NE Extension. Whether that was a tiny 9 or a tiny keystone, we don't have video from back then.
Quote from: Roadsguy on August 16, 2012, 06:06:30 PM
Quote from: Alex on August 16, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/northeast/i-76-276.jpg)
Harrisburg
Pittsburgh
and Ohio
I don't think I've ever seen control cities signed like that before.
The NY Thruway in the 60's and 70's had signs at the on-ramps that said "Rochester and West" or "Utica and East" around Syracuse.
Not PA 9, but an old sign exiting from it: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=C4NdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K10NAAAAIBAJ&pg=5364,4873507&dq=scranton+turnpike&hl=en
RTE instead of PA - never noticed that before
Quote from: Steve on August 16, 2012, 08:22:06 PM
There must have been some small shield formerly next to NE Extension. Whether that was a tiny 9 or a tiny keystone, we don't have video from back then.
An up-close, daytime shot of that BGS (revealing any possible shadows) would likely prove/disprove that notion.
What is the correct name ...
"Northeast Extension" or "Northeastern Extension" ?
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 09:40:19 AM
What is the correct name ...
"Northeast Extension" or "Northeastern Extension" ?
I believe it's "Northeast Extension."
One of the signs photographed above says -- "Northeastern Extension"
Granted that one is over 20 years ago ... what do the signs say today?
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 12:43:29 PM
One of the signs photographed above says -- "Northeastern Extension"
Granted that one is over 20 years ago ... what do the signs say today?
I've never heard of it referred to it as the "Northeastern Extension." Then again, I didn't exist 20 years ago. Today, the signs just say "Northeast Extension."
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 12:43:29 PMGranted that one is over 20 years ago ... what do the signs say today?
That sign is more like over
40 years ago.
It's like the NJ Turnpike Western Spur and Eastern Spur. ACTUALLY... Westerly and Easterly Alignments.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 17, 2012, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 12:43:29 PMGranted that one is over 20 years ago ... what do the signs say today?
That sign is more like over 40 years ago.
Probably so ... I generally recognize it as what I saw in the early 1970s, with the PA-9 shield.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 16, 2012, 11:01:41 PM
RTE instead of PA - never noticed that before
Those signs look identical to what was originally on the New York Thruway. Everything was a Route and the down arrows pointed to the ramp.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upstatenyroads.com%2Fassets%2F790hist1.jpg&hash=f28a7ad128c46efd00b490966d631754c9fac544)
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Yes, the original Thruway signs were blue but were retrofitted or replaced to green with the adoption of the guidelines that came along with the Interstate system. The old style guide signs (with the exit number on the bottom line) that lasted until the early 90s were green.
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 17, 2012, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2012, 12:43:29 PMGranted that one is over 20 years ago ... what do the signs say today?
That sign is more like over 40 years ago.
Probably so ... I generally recognize it as what I saw in the early 1970s, with the PA-9 shield.
The NE Extension didn't receive the PA 9 designation until sometime during the 1970s. I have a 1974 Rand Mc-Nally atlas for PA that shows no route number for the NE Extension. When I first moved into the Delaware Valley in mid-1990 and saw that old BGS sometime later; I don't believe there was a PA 9 shield on it at the time... it clearly came later judging by the larger size of the shield and font (series E vs. D).
Another old 60s/70s vintage BGS for the NE Extension along US 22 (approaching the Lehigh Valley exit) only featured a PA Turnpike shield and no route shield for PA 9. I don't believe that BGS ever had an I-476 shield slapped on it following the redesignation. A newer 90s-vintage BGS at the actual exit had route shields on it (PA 9 originally, then I-476 later).
Long story short, PennDOT & PTC seemed very lax with posting PA 9 shields on NE Extension BGS' until the early 90s. They probably were hoping that the NE Extension would've received an Interstate number (476) earlier than it actually did.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 20, 2012, 09:35:16 AM
Long story short, PennDOT & PTC seemed very lax with posting PA 9 shields on NE Extension BGS' until the early 90s. They probably were hoping that the NE Extension would've received an Interstate number (476) earlier than it actually did.
The Northeast Extension was a regular route for my family in the late 80s and early 90s to upstate New York. Likewise, I also recall very few instances of PA-9 actually being signed. Mostly when it was signed, it was a newer install at the time, or a shield slapped on an older button copy guide sign. There were no reassurance shields at all that I remember, not that it is surprising considering that the PA Turnpike was never that consistent about posting them on the east-west mainline.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 20, 2012, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Yes, the original Thruway signs were blue but were retrofitted or replaced to green with the adoption of the guidelines that came along with the Interstate system. The old style guide signs (with the exit number on the bottom line) that lasted until the early 90s were green.
The N.Y. State Thruway had blue signs as recently as the early 1970's.
I don't know when they were swapped-out for green.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 20, 2012, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 20, 2012, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Yes, the original Thruway signs were blue but were retrofitted or replaced to green with the adoption of the guidelines that came along with the Interstate system. The old style guide signs (with the exit number on the bottom line) that lasted until the early 90s were green.
The N.Y. State Thruway had blue signs as recently as the early 1970's.
I don't know when they were swapped-out for green.
As recently as the early 1990s, just south of the Tappan Zee Bridge; there was an older style gantry with horizontal green button-copy BGS at the I-87-287 split. I believe the panels (w/arrows) read:
87 New York
287 New EnglandGuess on my part; that long-gone BGS (replaced during the mid-90s) appeared to be of 60s vintage... maybe 1970 at the newest.
Looks like an old PA 9 keystone here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2Fpics%2Fsigns%2F20040811%2Fi276i76i476-close.jpg&hash=bcdb73b5a809a15cac2b015f68df187c8507a706)
Taken north of Abington in 2004.
Quote from: Jim on August 20, 2012, 03:17:04 PM
Looks like an old PA 9 keystone here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2Fpics%2Fsigns%2F20040811%2Fi276i76i476-close.jpg&hash=bcdb73b5a809a15cac2b015f68df187c8507a706)
Taken north of Abington in 2004.
Again, like other signs that had I-476 shields posted over PA 9 shields, this BGS was also erected during the early 1990s. Note: the direction cardinal lettering is all the same height.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.photoshop.com%2Fv1.0%2Faccounts%2F5f6c33c6abcf43be8d6d6adf06460436%2Fassets%2F7c4612c478a34367b066ea2e7cf023ad&hash=710e987bb3d1c16826b1c6361bd382e6998e810a)
...at Downingtown Interchange/Exit 312, PA 100
That's actually the first case of a covered PA 9 shield I saw in person. I've been through there about twice coming up from the Philly Airport area after surviving two-lane 322.
Anyway, I kinda meant pictures of uncovered shields from either before the renumbering, or before maybe the PTC fixed a spot they missed. :P
Quote from: Roadsguy on August 21, 2012, 08:22:05 AM
That's actually the first case of a covered PA 9 shield I saw in person. I've been through there about twice coming up from the Philly Airport area after surviving two-lane 322.
Anyway, I kinda meant pictures of uncovered shields from either before the renumbering, or before maybe the PTC fixed a spot they missed. :P
The conversion of the NE Extension from PA 9 to I-476 was one rare occasion where the PTC (and PennDOT where applicable) wasted no time in replacing all shields... even if the BGS' in question were erected just a few years earlier as per the majority of the examples posted and already commented on.
As stated earlier, PTC's hesitance to erect PA 9 shields (in anticipation to receiving an Interstate designation) is one reason why there weren't that many PA 9 shields to cover/replace. Most people didn't even call it Route 9 by name; they just called it the Northeast Extension.
Ironically, that example at the Downingtown interchange (erected circa 1992-1993) with its overhead gantry replaced a set of ground-mounted BGS' (one panel posted above the other) that were erected just a few years earlier. That BGS for I-76 eastbound did
not include any reference to the NE Extension; it simply read
76 EAST Philadelphia w/an 45 degree angled arrow to the right of the message. The BGS assembly for PA 100 after one clears the toll booth gives an idea what the old BGS assembly resembled... except the ones for I-76 were larger and had the control cities in standard FHWA mixed-case lettering (vs. all-caps for the PA 100 BGS').
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 20, 2012, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Yes, the original Thruway signs were blue but were retrofitted or replaced to green with the adoption of the guidelines that came along with the Interstate system. The old style guide signs (with the exit number on the bottom line) that lasted until the early 90s were green.
Yes, but isn't the pictured sign from either the collector or exit ramp leading from the Thruway? Isn't it possible that the guide signs on the Thruway were still a mix of green and blue at that time (looks like late 1970s)?
One thing I recall about signage during the 1970s was that NY and PA stuck out in my mind as the two states where route numbers were not in shields on highway/freeway guide signs. As a kid, I found the presentation to be very ugly. MA had the 'spade' (on non limited-access state roads) which also did not place the route number in a shield, but they were black on a white square on the larger guide signs. Those had the arrow that went through the number.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 09, 2012, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 20, 2012, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wasn't original Thruway signage blue, though?
Yes, the original Thruway signs were blue but were retrofitted or replaced to green with the adoption of the guidelines that came along with the Interstate system. The old style guide signs (with the exit number on the bottom line) that lasted until the early 90s were green.
Yes, but isn't the pictured sign from either the collector or exit ramp leading from the Thruway? Isn't it possible that the guide signs on the Thruway were still a mix of green and blue at that time (looks like late 1970s)?
The picture is from 1976.
Quote
One thing I recall about signage during the 1970s was that NY and PA stuck out in my mind as the two states where route numbers were not in shields on highway/freeway guide signs. As a kid, I found the presentation to be very ugly. MA had the 'spade' (on non limited-access state roads) which also did not place the route number in a shield, but they were black on a white square on the larger guide signs. Those had the arrow that went through the number.
Must be because I grew up with the all-text route numbers in New York, but I've always liked the way it looked (and it must be a little cheaper to do it this way). Wisconsin did it similarly for a while. I remember signs saying "Hwy 123" instead of the Wis. marker. I don't think Massachusetts ever used MA 123, wasn't everything a "Route" or "Rte."?
I'm trying to remember if I ever saw PA 9 on a sign and I don't think so. I remember an all text P.A. 106 on I-81 (with the shadow of U.S. under the P.A.), and yes the periods were presented that way.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on October 10, 2012, 07:28:39 AM
Must be because I grew up with the all-text route numbers in New York, but I've always liked the way it looked (and it must be a little cheaper to do it this way). Wisconsin did it similarly for a while. I remember signs saying "Hwy 123" instead of the Wis. marker. I don't think Massachusetts ever used MA 123, wasn't everything a "Route" or "Rte."?
I'm trying to remember if I ever saw PA 9 on a sign and I don't think so. I remember an all text P.A. 106 on I-81 (with the shadow of U.S. under the P.A.), and yes the periods were presented that way.
my 1957 and 1961 interstate reference manuals show that both options are viable. the spelled-out route number can lead to a smaller sign, saving material costs.
I believe the 1970 manual mandated shields, but I don't have one of those offhand.
Wisconsin was mixed. I've seen a photo of an outline shield Wisconsin state route marker - oblong over triangle. That would correspond to 1957 spec, but not 1961. It was even button copy! Truly a small-run shape for the AGA Company!
Quote from: upstatenyroads on October 10, 2012, 07:28:39 AM
Must be because I grew up with the all-text route numbers in New York, but I've always liked the way it looked (and it must be a little cheaper to do it this way). Wisconsin did it similarly for a while. I remember signs saying "Hwy 123" instead of the Wis. marker. I don't think Massachusetts ever used MA 123, wasn't everything a "Route" or "Rte."?
What I meant about MA was this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fma%2Fma_28%2Feu.jpg&hash=da12cb42aa0af5095cfef8b9b6cee9083e0e0dcd)
The really old ones were peaked on top with the highway number in the center.
Just found an example (but with the Interstate 291 shield in it):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages291%2Fi-291_ma_et_02.jpg&hash=b8d8fff7643eea5fdc2189891958cc76559d7203)
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 10, 2012, 02:15:59 PM
The really old ones were peaked on top with the highway number in the center.
yep, there's only about 5-10 cut corner signs left, as far as I know.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19620621i1.jpg)
gone. (1966 sign, 2006 photo)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19481101i1.jpg)
still around! (1948 sign, 2006 photo)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19300011i3.jpg)
none of this style, with the blackened out triangles, survive as far as I know. (1930 sign and photo)
@agentsteel53: My compliments on the pics - really cool to see!!