I dimly remember many of the exit signage on the Garden State Parkway looking more like the one shown in this photo, with rustic wooden framing. They've kept the signs for the Arts Center in the that style, but I really remember more than just that exit having that look. Does anyone know of any pics from the early days of signage on the Parkway?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwac.450f.edgecastcdn.net%2F80450F%2Fnj1015.com%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F08%2Fcow-along-parkway-300x300.jpg&hash=dbab044e149a91a95a096ec4a93809a1be9dc561)
Actually, I found a complimentary one of 116's gore sign here at aaroads, though I seem to remember the original style having button copy numbers attached to a raised piece of wood instead of the brown rectangle at the top...
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_jersey999/gsp_nb_exit_116_06.jpg)
...I could swear there was a time when more of the exit signage looked like this. If anyone can find pictures of others, it'd convince me I'm not crazy...
I'll bet there was a time when the signage looked like that.
current Merritt Parkway signage in Connecticut reflects the original 1938 signage in the way that the vertical edges of the green signs have a "sawtooth" pattern.
the new ones, however, are not cut out.
Here's an interesting one, from a picture taken on the section of the GSP that goes through the Oranges, purportedly in 1959:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-yLOEMgzHwws%2FTkaktksY9eI%2FAAAAAAAAAJY%2FZz1N1t9OErg%2Fs1600%2FGarden%2BState%2BParkway%2B1959.jpg&hash=653c3a1369e887fd0d0c63625d323e9aa6075d00)
It doesn't have the rustic wood edging, but then again, the Oranges aren't exactly rustic. (Though it does show the Parkway's wooden barriers that eventually gave way to brown-painted metal ones.) My memory is from a trip taken to Ocean City around 1973 (I think - I'd have been nine), and I remember the "rustic" look really taking hold below the Raritan.
BTW, I take the Merritt whenever possible, and appreciate their having replaced the signs that were rotting in the late eighties with something that keeps the look preserved (if not exactly.)
That photo was taken from a walkway looking south over the GSP at Oraton Parkway and New St. in East Orange. That scene is mostly unchanged today aside from an extended deceleration lane for Exit 145 and a jersey barrier in the center of the highway.
http://goo.gl/maps/uFlk4
That black & white photo above is typical of GSP signing in the 1960's as I remember it as a kid. Some located in the median, but most were on the right. Unlike later sign practices there were 2 of those "next right" signs before each exit, one at approx 1/4 to 1/2 mile and one just before the exit. GSP apparently pioneered the top mounted exit number tag before it became the national standard. Also note in that photo, the still common GSP practice of listing destinations first with the street name under the destinations; unique to GSP I think. And they used very few overhead signs in those days on the Parkway. The only ones I can remember were at the Route 3 interchange, Exit 153A & B. BTW, the Exit 145 shown in the photo later became the I-280 interchange.
If the newly widened section of the GSP from Exit 63 to 80 is any indication, the movement will be towards all overhead signs. Every exit on that stretch is signed overhead now in the classic Turnpike pattern at 2 miles, 1 mile, and 1/2 mile. Sad, because it ruins the rural ambiance of the road. Somewhat unrelated, a pull through overhead with a control city of Toms River appeared southbound at Exit 89.
So you're saying that since the Turnpike Authority took over the Parkway, the signing is gradually transitioning to the Turnpike configuration? Does that include having the exit number and distance on the top line of the sign instead of a separate exit number tag? That seems to be the signature feature of NJT signing.
^^ The spacing is an MUTCD guideline, not specific to the Turnpike. Parkway guide sign appearance will look more similar to the MUTCD as well, rather than the Turnpike's look. The separate guide sign design standards for each roadway are still being held.
Quote from: akotchi on September 17, 2012, 12:27:49 PM
^^ The spacing is an MUTCD guideline, not specific to the Turnpike. Parkway guide sign appearance will look more similar to the MUTCD as well, rather than the Turnpike's look. The separate guide sign design standards for each roadway are still being held.
False, from this point forward the Turnpike will follow MUTCD. Only existing contracts (Widening and 0-5) are going out with the current design standards. The 2/1/½ pattern of overhead signs on the Parkway is the new standard for both roadways, as you've noticed, and the intent is to only deviate on constrained Parkway sections where there are too many exits or too much interference to put all three signs either a) up at all or b) overhead.
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
Wow, that will be the end of an era in NJ Turnpike history. I will be sorry to see those NJT style arrows disappear, but I guess it won't happen that quick.
And, I almost forgot to ask: are they changing to mileage based exit numbers too? Funny, GSP always numbered that way from the beginning in the 1950's. Go figure..............
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: akotchi on September 17, 2012, 12:27:49 PM
^^ The spacing is an MUTCD guideline, not specific to the Turnpike. Parkway guide sign appearance will look more similar to the MUTCD as well, rather than the Turnpike's look. The separate guide sign design standards for each roadway are still being held.
False, from this point forward the Turnpike will follow MUTCD. Only existing contracts (Widening and 0-5) are going out with the current design standards. The 2/1/½ pattern of overhead signs on the Parkway is the new standard for both roadways, as you've noticed, and the intent is to only deviate on constrained Parkway sections where there are too many exits or too much interference to put all three signs either a) up at all or b) overhead.
Thanks for the correction on that point. I was not sure which way Turnpike sign designs would go.
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 08:24:15 PM
Wow, that will be the end of an era in NJ Turnpike history. I will be sorry to see those NJT style arrows disappear, but I guess it won't happen that quick.
And, I almost forgot to ask: are they changing to mileage based exit numbers too? Funny, GSP always numbered that way from the beginning in the 1950's. Go figure..............
All I can say about that is, there will be a lot of very noticeable news stories when that happens.
If I'm not mistaken, the GSP was the first road in the U.S. to use distance-based numbers.
And now the NJTP is the last (long-distance?) toll road to use sequential numbers.
You forgot the Thruway.
...and the Massachusetts, Spaulding, Everett and New Hampshire Turnpikes.
Yeah, whatever. It is, however, the last in a state that uses distance-based numbers on free roads.
Quote from: Steve on September 18, 2012, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 08:24:15 PM
Wow, that will be the end of an era in NJ Turnpike history. I will be sorry to see those NJT style arrows disappear, but I guess it won't happen that quick.
And, I almost forgot to ask: are they changing to mileage based exit numbers too? Funny, GSP always numbered that way from the beginning in the 1950's. Go figure..............
All I can say about that is, there will be a lot of very noticeable news stories when that happens.
That'll totally change some of the ol'
What exit do you live at? conversations.
Quote from: NE2 on September 19, 2012, 12:47:05 PM
Yeah, whatever. It is, however, the last in a state that uses distance-based numbers on free roads.
I'm a tad confused w/your statement (and yes I read the ones that preceeded yours). If the state you're referring to is NJ; they've been using mileage-based exit numbers on free roads for decades along w/the tolled GSP and ACE (obviously, you already knew that).
There's a definite typo or transposition of sorts somewhere in your post.
What I'm saying is that the NJTP is the only sequential long-distance toll road in a state that uses mile-based numbers on other roads. Trying to cheat my way to victory, in other words.
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed? If you cannot figure out that a freeway is in the direction the merge lane is going then you should not even be driving in the first place. No other freeway in the US has it and I believe its not in the MUTCD either.
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
What about the NJ Turnpike's way of striping the lanes with extra long and wide lines? Will we see the usual way of striping then next paint job?
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed? If you cannot figure out that a freeway is in the direction the merge lane is going then you should not even be driving in the first place. No other freeway in the US has it and I believe its not in the MUTCD either.
Indiana does this in places.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed? If you cannot figure out that a freeway is in the direction the merge lane is going then you should not even be driving in the first place. No other freeway in the US has it and I believe its not in the MUTCD either.
Massachusetts does this as well, most noticeably on I-495. There's also a "NO TURNS" sign IIRC.
I remember at one time before the FHWA standardized road signs, the GSP had circle cut out DO NOT ENTER signs that were completely red back when the old white square with black DO NOT ENTER used to be used before the red circle and white bar that is used worldwide. The exit number signs had circles around its arrow and the NJDOT that maintained the at grade section of Parkway at Cape May CH, the US 9 concurrency at Toms River, and the 129-140 section in North Central Jersey used gore exit guide signs along with only one NEXT RIGHT sign 1/4 mile away from the exit. In addition, the state parts of the Parkway were concrete and used double guy mast arm roadway lighting. The rest of the Parkway used wooden poles and had some places with regular light bulbs instead of mercury or sodium lamps.
Service areas were signed FOOD FUEL and there were no ramp tolls at many exits in the shore region was another memorable thing and the GSP was on the outside of US 9 in Woodbridge instead of US 9 being there like it is now with the 10 lane parkway in the middle. It was when NJ 440 became freeway as it used to be aligned where NJ 184 is now when the current big tangle was constructed with what it is now.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 06, 2012, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed? If you cannot figure out that a freeway is in the direction the merge lane is going then you should not even be driving in the first place. No other freeway in the US has it and I believe its not in the MUTCD either.
Indiana does this in places.
Indiana used to use it all over the place. One on-way sign in the median, and one one-way sign on the right side of the entrance ramp.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
What about the NJ Turnpike's way of striping the lanes with extra long and wide lines? Will we see the usual way of striping then next paint job?
Nope, because the MUTCD does not require 30-10-30.
I saw once on the old Trailblazer Newsletter that used to be published at the Turnpike Service areas back in the 80s saying at the time they could care less what the federal standards were and they stated their way was safest!
I did not think that they would change that and I figure that Indiana won't change their paint style either as the Indiana E-W Toll Road stripes their lanes in the same manner.
The only drawback to this is that it makes you feel like you are driving slower than you actually are.
https://www.google.com/search?q=garden+state+parkway+pictures&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=X&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&ei=N5IOUf_TDY-08AStxoH4Ag&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=664#imgrc=WuspEcTabiLYAM%3A%3Bct-Ar6OFpEn0vM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mountconstruction.com%252Fimages%252Frt-88-89%252FIMG_0919.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mountconstruction.com%252Fproject-gsp-88-89.php%3B800%3B598
A link to many different photos of the Garden State Parkway throughout the years.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on October 06, 2012, 03:05:30 PM
Massachusetts does this as well, most noticeably on I-495. There's also a "NO TURNS" sign IIRC.
Correct. MassDOT standard is to provide a "NO TURNS" sign at the entrance gore, with a One Way sign mounted above it.
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
:(
With the neon signs going away and reverting to MUTCD signage, how will I know when I'm on the turnpike anymore!?
Quote from: MrDisco99 on February 15, 2013, 11:31:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
:(
With the neon signs going away and reverting to MUTCD signage, how will I know when I'm on the turnpike anymore!?
At least currently, you're not going to find many roads with full color LED VMS signs!
Here's a screwy idea. Render the neon signs and fonts in LCD VMS.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on February 15, 2013, 11:31:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
:(
With the neon signs going away and reverting to MUTCD signage, how will I know when I'm on the turnpike anymore!?
When you get to the tollbooth, you'll know.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on February 15, 2013, 11:31:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
:(
With the neon signs going away and reverting to MUTCD signage, how will I know when I'm on the turnpike anymore!?
The length of the lines on the pavement?
The sign that says J
N P ?
T
(was I close?)
Quote from: amroad17 on February 18, 2013, 10:58:44 PM
The sign that says J
N P ?
T
(was I close?)
You'll now see those on pull-throughs, even though there have never been reassurance markers on the roadway. (I asked, but that's one more sign to have to maintain, and it's not necessary because every interchange will have the sign on entry signs or pull-throughs.)
Quote from: Steve on February 17, 2013, 06:03:14 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on February 15, 2013, 11:31:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 17, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on September 17, 2012, 07:45:42 PM
Hmmm............Steve, if the Turnpike is changing to MUTCD standards, does that mean their signs will eventually have the separate exit number tag, instead of the current "top-line" configuration for the exit number and distance? As I mentioned earlier, that and the Turnpike's unique arrows have always been NJT's "signature" features.
Correct - both the in-sign number and the arrows are going away.
:(
With the neon signs going away and reverting to MUTCD signage, how will I know when I'm on the turnpike anymore!?
When you get to the tollbooth, you'll know.
"Now what do I do? Do I keep going?"
Yeah...that was mentioned to me a few times. And I wanted to say "Yes, we have a huge building in the middle of the roadway for no reason whatsoever. Absolutely, keep going."
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed?
Because it's a one way road. The yellow merge warning or new lane warning sign does not have any regulatory authority to require users to drive in the direction the ramp is channelized in. Many if not most of the exits on I-80 have a "NO TURNS" sign in the gore of every on-ramp. I've also seen the one-way signs used on other interstates and on US-22.
Quote from: _Simon on February 19, 2013, 09:15:00 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 06, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
Why does the Garden State Parkway have large ONE WAY signs across the road from all of its acceleration lanes when it is not needed?
Because it's a one way road. The yellow merge warning or new lane warning sign does not have any regulatory authority to require users to drive in the direction the ramp is channelized in. Many if not most of the exits on I-80 have a "NO TURNS" sign in the gore of every on-ramp. I've also seen the one-way signs used on other interstates and on US-22.
Yeah, but it is quite obvious which way the road is going. In many places the sign is not used like here in Florida. There are plenty of freeway entrances that do not have them, and even with British Tourists who drive on the left, you do not see anyone "go the wrong way" here. Heck, in many places we lack keep right signs at median beginnings and no one drifts to the left. Only on new signing projects will you see a "KEEP RIGHT" picture assembly and on rural roadways median breaks have no traffic control devices at all!
Quote from: roadman65 on March 20, 2013, 06:03:40 PM
In many places the sign is not used like here in Florida. There are plenty of freeway entrances that do not have them, and even with British Tourists who drive on the left, you do not see anyone "go the wrong way" here. Heck, in many places we lack keep right signs at median beginnings and no one drifts to the left. Only on new signing projects will you see a "KEEP RIGHT" picture assembly and on rural roadways median breaks have no traffic control devices at all!
Then they're poorly designed.