What exactly are the rules for design and when/where these words should be used for signs?
Examples:
Next right:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWXWQL.png&hash=64ecd19761c85391e6e471b7cf4d41abc3de2570)
Second right:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGiPtP.png&hash=829445a7b3ad28aee57cfc31f64b60c21faca57c)
I never noticed these ... suggestions ... I guess you'd call them until just recently.
Thanks
I believe both applications are supposed to be used as "advance" notice signs; not at the exit, but at a distance less than 1/4 mile ahead of the sign location.
My interpretation is that "Second Right" really should only be used in conjunction with another sign that already says "Next Right". I.e. If the signs in the second photo were about 1/8 mile from exit 76A, the sign for Capitol Dr would say "Next Right" on the bottom, the other would be unaltered.
That's all an educated guess without looking at what the MUTCD has to say...
In California, the use of "NEXT RIGHT" and "SECOND RIGHT" are supposed to be limited to Supplemental Destination (G86-CA series) signs. AFAIK, these signs are meant to be ground-mounted rather than overhead signs and are not placed near an exit or in combination with an exit direction sign.
In Louisiana, on LA 1 North at I-10, there is a BGS showing SECOND RIGHT for I-10 West, along with the arrow for I-10 East. Reasoning is explained by the small intersection for the Port of Baton Rouge, located between I-10 East and I-10 West. Makes perfect sense to me. http://goo.gl/maps/k4vsQ
I think the most common application of "NEXT RIGHT" I've seen here in Ohio is services signs for unnumbered exits. So instead of "FOOD - EXIT 31" you'll see something like "FOOD - NEXT RIGHT".
It seems a bit awkward to me--obviously real exit numbers would be preferable--but I suppose I can understand the reasoning.
Oklahoma uses "NEXT RIGHT" even when exit numbers are available on supplemental destination signs. So not "Univ. of Phoenix, Exit 110", but "Univ. of Phoenix, Next Right".
Virginia generally only uses it on freeways/expressways that don't have exit numbers.
The MUTCD is your friend. (Full text is online.) The text is used when you're already at the interchange (or just in advance) and a distance would be inappropriate.
Kansas is apt to use a down arrow in this case.
I'm seeing some "2nd RIGHT" (or "...LEFT TURN") in this area. When did the ordinal number become acceptable?
There's a "Third Right" on a BGS on southbound VA 288 near the US 360 interchange. The third right is for Commonwealth Centre Parkway, which serves several businesses.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 13, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
I'm seeing some "2nd RIGHT" (or "...LEFT TURN") in this area. When did the ordinal number become acceptable?
It's not.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 13, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
I'm seeing some "2nd RIGHT" (or "...LEFT TURN") in this area. When did the ordinal number become acceptable?
Strictly speaking, the text message on the sign is up to the agency, be it NEXT RIGHT, KEEP RIGHT, SECOND, 2nd, etc. I don't believe the MUTCD delves into anything beyond NEXT/KEEp.
The following seems to me to be a good use of SECOND RIGHT on a freeway where two interchanges are close together.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FIntchg%2FUS30--US33-2.jpg&hash=71173fde0517b96dadc918f3d551b831b03e203a)
https://maps.google.com/?ll=41.125207,-85.186057&spn=0.01584,0.042272&t=h&z=15 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=41.125207,-85.186057&spn=0.01584,0.042272&t=h&z=15)
Yep Mukade, both of the examples I have shown the exits are pretty close to each other. ~500 feet for my first picture, ~1000 feet for my second picture. (0.1 and 0.2 miles)
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
Quote from: zorb58 on September 15, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
I think that's indicated by the arrow that points to the right and the fact it's to the right of another upcoming exit sign.
Quote from: zorb58 on September 15, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
"This Exit" should never be used. Normally, if the rightmost sign has an arrow, the next sign would have "Next Exit." In the case depicted, where you have a bend to the right and the actual gore point isn't immediately visible, "Second Right" lends some clarity that "Next Exit" would not - namely, that you should not consider that gore point around the corner the "Next Exit" you are looking for.
Quote from: Steve on September 16, 2012, 03:11:59 AM
Quote from: zorb58 on September 15, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
"This Exit" should never be used. Normally, if the rightmost sign has an arrow, the next sign would have "Next Exit." In the case depicted, where you have a bend to the right and the actual gore point isn't immediately visible, "Second Right" lends some clarity that "Next Exit" would not - namely, that you should not consider that gore point around the corner the "Next Exit" you are looking for.
My point is that they're exits, not primarily right turns. Why call them rights?
I feel that "Next Exit" is descriptive enough. I don't think it's hard for a person to read it and think "not this one in sequence, but the next one."
And I mentioned "This Exit" not to go on actual exit signs, but signs with destinations... shoulda explained better, sorry! Example: Airport/Car Rentals THIS EXIT
Quote from: zorb58 on September 16, 2012, 02:19:46 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 16, 2012, 03:11:59 AM
Quote from: zorb58 on September 15, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
"This Exit" should never be used. Normally, if the rightmost sign has an arrow, the next sign would have "Next Exit." In the case depicted, where you have a bend to the right and the actual gore point isn't immediately visible, "Second Right" lends some clarity that "Next Exit" would not - namely, that you should not consider that gore point around the corner the "Next Exit" you are looking for.
My point is that they're exits, not primarily right turns. Why call them rights?
I feel that "Next Exit" is descriptive enough. I don't think it's hard for a person to read it and think "not this one in sequence, but the next one."
And I mentioned "This Exit" not to go on actual exit signs, but signs with destinations... shoulda explained better, sorry! Example: Airport/Car Rentals THIS EXIT
In the case of the photo posted by mukade, I believe saying "Second Right" is more appropriate in this situation than "Next Exit", since there are no other indications as to whether the exit is a right or left exit (no tabs on the top). As for "This Exit", I would reserve that phrase as a last resort. IMO, the signs should be as descriptive as possible, so the
only time "This Exit" should be used is when there is no exit number to reference.
Quote from: zorb58 on September 16, 2012, 02:19:46 PM
And I mentioned "This Exit" not to go on actual exit signs, but signs with destinations... shoulda explained better, sorry! Example: Airport/Car Rentals THIS EXIT
Signs like your example I quoted above should be located upstream from the exit, not *at* the exit and the wording should be "Airport/Car Rentals NEXT EXIT". I don't there is a practical use for "THIS EXIT".
Here's a quick illustration of what I'm saying...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fnext_exit_ex.png&hash=c76f3dff02299d93c4f4e4577f40a05079f89052)
Putting the "San Jose Int'l Airport NEXT EXIT" sign (called a supplemental guide sign in California) near the exit direction sign for CA-87 doesn't give drivers enough time to process both signs and realize they need to exit now to get to the airport. By placing the supplemental guide sign upstream from the exit should provide enough time for drivers to exit the freeway.
Note: for those of you familiar with this stretch of US 101, the signs in the above drawing do not reflect what's out in the field.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 16, 2012, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: zorb58 on September 16, 2012, 02:19:46 PM
And I mentioned "This Exit" not to go on actual exit signs, but signs with destinations... shoulda explained better, sorry! Example: Airport/Car Rentals THIS EXIT
Signs like your example I quoted above should be located upstream from the exit, not *at* the exit and the wording should be "Airport/Car Rentals NEXT EXIT". I don't there is a practical use for "THIS EXIT".
Here's a quick illustration of what I'm saying...
Putting the "San Jose Int'l Airport NEXT EXIT" sign (called a supplemental guide sign in California) near the exit direction sign for CA-87 doesn't give drivers enough time to process both signs and realize they need to exit now to get to the airport. By placing the supplemental guide sign upstream from the exit should provide enough time for drivers to exit the freeway.
I think it does make sense to say "this exit." To me it just means "this upcoming exit." This makes sense especially if they are mounted directly next to each other or if the supplemental sign is after one or more regular signs for the exit. Obviously I'm in the minority, but I find it's use could be more practical.
By the way, I'd be alright with the example that you made because it uses the word "Exit" as opposed to "Right." That's really the root of my original post.
Heck, why go "THIS EXIT" when you can go "THESE EXITS"? Which exits are these exits? How do I know when I have left these exits and have reached those exits?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fil%2Fi-80%2Fe1.jpg&hash=e0898a6891ad73571896a2197509a6b58399a4f6)
On US 30 near Van Wert, Ohio recently I saw a couple blue button copy services signs that mentioned "NEXT EXIT" while most say "NEXT RIGHT", and at least one of them struck me as one that I thought should say EXIT instead of RIGHT for a long time because it came before at least one crossroad preceding the exit the sign refers to. (This is on one of the many sections of US 30 with crossroads for minor country roads and interchanges for major routes.) I have to look on an old street view and see if they did change them sometime recently. Ohio has been known to actually use "new" button copy pieces parts on services signs, like the ones on I-71 at exit 209 where they added button copy letter Bs when the exit became an A-B, and on US 30 west of Mansfield in 2009 they installed a pair of button copy blue services signs that were obviously recycled but it was still exciting to see "new" button copy erected on a stretch of road that opened in 2005 with otherwise only reflective signs for miles and miles.
Quote from: zorb58 on September 15, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
I think they should say "This Exit" or "Next Exit" all the time.
In Puerto Rico they do. Proxima Salida which translates to that.
Virginia did "THIS EXIT" on I-64 for the Skyline Drive and Blue Ridge Parkway back in the 80s for the US 250 interchange in Afton on an auxilllary guide there. I am sure now they use the exit number instead like many other states do I would think.
I love the way private company billboards near an exit use EXIT NOW! It is good for them, but it would not go over for proper public road signs.
Quote from: Special K on September 14, 2012, 03:15:30 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 13, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
I'm seeing some "2nd RIGHT" (or "...LEFT TURN") in this area. When did the ordinal number become acceptable?
It's not.
Tell that to NJDOT.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 16, 2012, 08:22:29 PM
I love the way private company billboards near an exit use EXIT NOW! It is good for them, but it would not go over for proper public road signs.
There are signs on I-95 going both directions on either side of the Fort McHenry Tunnel in Baltimore that have the EXIT NOW for hazmat vehicles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_056_05.jpg)
The new signs, however, aren't as threatening looking...
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_056_04.jpg)
(AARoads pic)
Quote from: PennDOTFan on September 16, 2012, 09:50:37 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_056_04.jpg)
Man, that 95 shield is so ugly... And "Keith Ave" is no better. :pan:
Agree with you Roadsguy... that Keith Ave text is UGLY. Font is way too big for that sign.
The Keith Ave sign is a disaster...double border where green meets yellow, way too large text and way too small text on the same sign (Keith Ave and EXIT 56, respectively), EXIT ONLY part not tall enough, arrow slightly off-center (why not all the way to the right if not centered, or maybe inside the EXIT ONLY part?).....
At least they used FHWA lettering for what they are supposed to, which is unlike lots of recent Maryland signage. How many of the examples of unacceptable Clearview on the FAQ page are from Maryland? It seems disproportionately Maryland.
Maryland seems to like NOW. Don't they have some signs that say something like "Form Single Line NOW" at some lane drops, usually on ramps?
Quote from: The BGS
HAZMATS MUST EXIT NOW
Yes, NOW. No stopping at the gore point if you're confused, no getting stuck in traffic. Just plow through it. :spin:
Quote from: Roadsguy on September 17, 2012, 10:05:00 AM
Man, that 95 shield is so ugly... And "Keith Ave" is no better. :pan:
The MdTA is to blame for these monstrosities. The I-95 shield is actually all but uncommon, since that style is seen on most of the mile markers on I-95 north of Baltimore.
I-35 northbound approaching US 30 near Ames, IA:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4150%2F5002501486_d9a6fdc977.jpg&hash=87ed87cbd835ba5c9e147c20bb2fcf0653685285)
While doing research for my site several years ago, I stumbled upon a 1972 article in the now-defunct Des Moines Tribune stating that there used to be an "Ames: NEXT 2 EXITS" BGS here, just like on southbound I-35. However, since this is a cloverleaf interchange, some drivers thought the next two "exits" were the two cloverleaf ramps -- one of which takes you away from Ames. Hence, the sign was eventually changed to this.
Quote from: iowahighways on September 17, 2012, 07:47:50 PM
I-35 northbound approaching US 30 near Ames, IA:
While doing research for my site several years ago, I stumbled upon a 1972 article in the now-defunct Des Moines Tribune stating that there used to be an "Ames: NEXT 2 EXITS" BGS here, just like on southbound I-35. However, since this is a cloverleaf interchange, some drivers thought the next two "exits" were the two cloverleaf ramps -- one of which takes you away from Ames. Hence, the sign was eventually changed to this.
I know that Massachusetts and Indiana have used "Next X Interchanges" instead of "Next X Exits" when cloverleafs (cloverleaves?) or other A-B setups are part of the sequence. There were a few on "route 128" (cough, cough) aka I-95 MA, but the quickest one I could find was I-70 IN: Richmond Next 4 Interchanges (http://goo.gl/maps/sQk6a)
Soon to say "Next 9 interchanges" when the Union Chapel Road interchange opens here on I-69, but for some reason they don't count the southern I-469 interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FFW-Next.jpg&hash=d693392fb981a46126c20da45a00b83838840e7c)
Quote from: Roadsguy on September 17, 2012, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on September 16, 2012, 09:50:37 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_056_04.jpg)
Man, that 95 shield is so ugly... And "Keith Ave" is no better. :pan:
And I can see somebody arguing that the placement of that "No Propane Tanks" symbol is possibly confusing. Does it mean no propane tanks permitted through the tunnel, or no propane tanks permitted on the hazmat route?
The meaning of NEXT EXIT is not immediately clear. It's similar to what is meant by the phrase 'next Thursday'. Today is Tuesday, so most people (but not all) would assume it means Thursday of next week. But what about 'next Monday'? Does that mean six days from now or thirteen? People take a hard stance on one side of the other on this issue, but the fact remains that the meaning is not immediately clear. It's for this reason that I avoid the construction, preferring 'this coming Monday' or 'two Mondays from now'. In the same way, I would prefer to see THIS EXIT and SECOND EXIT, completely avoiding the use of NEXT EXIT.
There's a spot on CT-9 SB hearding towards the I-91 NB and SB ramps that have "Second Right" and "First Right" in black lettering on yellow at the bottom of the BGSes. Like the "exit only" is done.
Quote from: roadman on September 18, 2012, 09:50:37 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on September 17, 2012, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on September 16, 2012, 09:50:37 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_056_04.jpg)
Man, that 95 shield is so ugly... And "Keith Ave" is no better. :pan:
And I can see somebody arguing that the placement of that "No Propane Tanks" symbol is possibly confusing. Does it mean no propane tanks permitted through the tunnel, or no propane tanks permitted on the hazmat route?
The MUTCD symbol for hazardous materials is a green or red-with-slash circle with "HM" inside, not a depiction of one of the nine hazard classes. And just a regulatory quibble, if I'm carrying a 20-lb. propane cylinder such as what is pictured for personal use, I'm not transporting in commerce and am not subject to hazmat regulation.
Quote from: mukade on September 17, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Soon to say "Next 9 interchanges" when the Union Chapel Road interchange opens here on I-69, but for some reason they don't count the southern I-469 interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FFW-Next.jpg&hash=d693392fb981a46126c20da45a00b83838840e7c)
Maybe because I-469 bypasses Ft. Wayne? Granted, one would take 469 to many eastside destinations, but the road technically doesn't go
to FW.
Quote from: theline on September 20, 2012, 02:07:40 AM
Quote from: mukade on September 17, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Soon to say "Next 9 interchanges" when the Union Chapel Road interchange opens here on I-69, but for some reason they don't count the southern I-469 interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FFW-Next.jpg&hash=d693392fb981a46126c20da45a00b83838840e7c)
Maybe because I-469 bypasses Ft. Wayne? Granted, one would take 469 to many eastside destinations, but the road technically doesn't go to FW.
I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is. I would maintain that Airport Expressway and Union Chapel Rd. are the same. I don't think either one is in the city limits. Also, because Fort Wayne has few suburbs, that whole unincorporated area I-469 goes through is essentially "Fort Wayne". It isn't a huge deal, but it is an interesting decision on what is and is not FW.
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 17, 2012, 11:44:51 PMI know that Massachusetts and Indiana have used "Next X Interchanges" instead of "Next X Exits" when cloverleafs (cloverleaves?) or other A-B setups are part of the sequence. There were a few on "route 128" (cough, cough) aka I-95 MA
Actually, the only
NEXT X INTERCHANGES BGS I saw was along I-95/MA 128 Southbound approaching Waltham many years ago (not sure if it's still there now). It didn't matter whether the next X interchanges were cloverleaves or not. Most other BGS' I've seen there either use
NEXT X EXITS or now use the interchange/mileage listings.
The
SECOND RIGHT and even
THIRD RIGHT signage in Massachusetts used to very common along roads that approached highway interchanges; the main reason being that the 1st right along the road in question may have been a driveway or a minor road.
One old example is along MA 114 Eastbound as it approaches MA 128 at the North Shore Mall. The original 1950s-era BGS assembly (2 BGS' vertically stacked supported by 3 steel posts) was located far enough from the interchange that the first right following the BGS assembly was an entry/exit road to/from the mall (then North Shore Shopping Center).
The BGS' read (w/large MA 128 shields (in series E or F numerals) mounted on the left side):
128 BOSTON
2ND RIGHT
128 GLOUCESTER
3RD RIGHT Many older LGS along roads approaching I-95 (north of Danvers) used similar as well.
Quote from: doofy103 on September 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
There's a spot on CT-9 SB hearding towards the I-91 NB and SB ramps that have "Second Right" and "First Right" in black lettering on yellow at the bottom of the BGSes. Like the "exit only" is done.
Yeah I remember when those were put up when the road first opened in December 1989. Never liked the black-on-yellow colors for something that had been commonly only used for EXIT ONLY or LEFT EXIT banners.
Then, in the same neighborhood, is this shot of a recently-replaced (last year?) sign assembly. The old sign was mounted on a lattice gantry and omitted any signage for EXIT 22N. Now if you look at the EXIT 22N sign that's there now, it says FIRST RIGHT, on a black-on-yellow banner. Considering the next exit after Exit 22N is more than a mile down the road, I think NEXT RIGHT would've been more appropriate.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TJrxqMnQ0QI/UFuO_bkpRBI/AAAAAAAARv0/AH59e9bOTsw/s720/Exit%252022-3-SB.JPG)