The L.A. Times has officially adopted the terminology (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/readers-rep/la-me-rr-southland-freeways-are-a-number-not-a-name-20120919,0,3416097.story) that seems to have been in general use for a long time.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 19, 2012, 08:45:03 PM
The L.A. Times has officially adopted the terminology (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/readers-rep/la-me-rr-southland-freeways-are-a-number-not-a-name-20120919,0,3416097.story) that seems to have been in general use for a long time.
My other definitive media source for information about Los Angeles-area traffic (including especially the freeway network) is KNX-1070, and their traffic reports ("traffic and weather together on the 5's") have been saying "the 405" and "the 101" and "the 5" and "the 91" for many years.
So even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think
the Times is making the right call.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2012, 08:21:43 AMSo even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think the Times is making the right call.
This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator. Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.
There are some pros and cons to the traditionalist argument. Pro: names are arguably more stable. The Harbor Freeway has always been the Harbor Freeway, despite being Route 11 for decades, and now Route 110 (I-110 south and Calif. 110 north). Con: names are not always stable. Cases in point: Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway), Los Angeles River Freeway (now better known as the Long Beach Freeway). Pro: names can be more specific. "Harbor Freeway" and "Arroyo Seco Parkway" give a better idea of location since both are discrete parts of Route 110. Con: Names do not have very good relatability to maps even in Los Angeles. Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs. (Some have suggested that this is because the plans for the old signs are reused for the new signs, but I don't think it is that simple. Old signing plans are not pattern-accurate, while new signing plans have to be. Instead, I think what actually happens is that the exterior dimensions of each sign to be replaced are read off as-built data--either SIOs or the actual plan sheets--and the existing legends are simply re-drawn into the same footprint, with mild modifications for exit numbers and the like, because Caltrans doesn't have the construction budget or personnel resource to do a bottom-up redesign of all LA freeway guide signing even if such a change would be accepted by the public, which is doubtful given the
de facto landmark status of much signing.)
Whatever actually appears on signs or is used in the news media, however, you still need to know the traditional freeway names in order to retrieve construction plans for them from the City of Los Angeles' engineering vault.
Quote from: J N Winkler
Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway)
Actually, the Colorado Freeway (the original Route 134 through Burbank) partially got subsumed by an extension of the Ventura Freeway, and partially still exists as a spur off of I-5. (The Foothill Freeway has always had that name - including the oldest segment that the current 210 has bypassed).
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs. (Some have suggested that this is because the plans for the old signs are reused for the new signs, but I don't think it is that simple. Old signing plans are not pattern-accurate, while new signing plans have to be. Instead, I think what actually happens is that the exterior dimensions of each sign to be replaced are read off as-built data--either SIOs or the actual plan sheets--and the existing legends are simply re-drawn into the same footprint, with mild modifications for exit numbers and the like, because Caltrans doesn't have the construction budget or personnel resource to do a bottom-up redesign of all LA freeway guide signing even if such a change would be accepted by the public, which is doubtful given the de facto landmark status of much signing.)
In addition to the "carbon copy" new signs that keep the route names (San Diego Freeway for instance) in circulation, there's the recent resigning project to restore the Arroyo Seco Parkway name to the non-interstate stretch of Route 110 (primarily, historic US 66).
THAT can feed into both sides of the argument - a name that is now being reemphasized by CalTrans, but also a demonstration of (relative) lack of moniker stability for that route while it has remained state route 110 since 1981.
I like the names better than the numbers. LA/SoCal local flavor and all that you know!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on September 20, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
I like the names better than the numbers. LA/SoCal local flavor and all that you know!
Rick
I do too! However, when a named freeway ends up involving segments of multiple numbered routes, I can completely see where this would be inconvenient.
Most notably, every segment of US 101 in Los Angeles County shares its name with another numbered route: Route 170 is the north part of the Hollywood Freeway, Route 134 is the east segment of the Ventura Freeway, and Interstate 5 (along former US 101) is the majority of the Santa Ana Freeway.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2012, 08:21:43 AMSo even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think the Times is making the right call.
This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator. Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.
I agree.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
There are some pros and cons to the traditionalist argument. Pro: names are arguably more stable. The Harbor Freeway has always been the Harbor Freeway, despite being Route 11 for decades, and now Route 110 (I-110 south and Calif. 110 north). Con: names are not always stable. Cases in point: Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway), Los Angeles River Freeway (now better known as the Long Beach Freeway). Pro: names can be more specific. "Harbor Freeway" and "Arroyo Seco Parkway" give a better idea of location since both are discrete parts of Route 110. Con: Names do not have very good relatability to maps even in Los Angeles. Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs. (Some have suggested that this is because the plans for the old signs are reused for the new signs, but I don't think it is that simple. Old signing plans are not pattern-accurate, while new signing plans have to be. Instead, I think what actually happens is that the exterior dimensions of each sign to be replaced are read off as-built data--either SIOs or the actual plan sheets--and the existing legends are simply re-drawn into the same footprint, with mild modifications for exit numbers and the like, because Caltrans doesn't have the construction budget or personnel resource to do a bottom-up redesign of all LA freeway guide signing even if such a change would be accepted by the public, which is doubtful given the de facto landmark status of much signing.)
While I personally like the freeway names, I can understand why radio traffic reporters and the station managements prefer numbers. Consider that it takes a traffic anchor more time and more syllables to say "the San Bernardino Freeway" than it does to say "the Ten Freeway" or "the Four-O-Five" instead of "the San Diego Freeway," I can see why they use numbers.
Closer to home for me, in the Md./Va./D.C. area, the Capital Beltway is almost invariably referred to as "the Inner Loop" or "the Outer Loop;" the Shirley Highway as "395" or "95;" I-66 as "66," I-270 as "270;" the Anacostia Freeway as "295" and the InterCounty Connector as "200." U.S. 50 in Maryland is usually also called "John Hanson Highway" (to distinguish it from U.S. 50 in Northern Virginia, most of which is Arlington Boulevard).
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Whatever actually appears on signs or is used in the news media, however, you still need to know the traditional freeway names in order to retrieve construction plans for them from the City of Los Angeles' engineering vault.
Interesting that those plans are in custody of the municipal government of Los Angeles, and not stored someplace by Caltrans, since (
I believe) that Caltrans now has maintenance responsibility for the
entire Southland freeway network.
Great article. I think this is the only area of the country where I hear people use terms a la "The 405". Even up in northern California, I don't seem to hear it as much. (ex. "Take 280, and then follow 1 to the Persidio")
QuotePro: names can be more specific.
Agree for the most part. The San Diego Freeway being in LA is one such exception that comes to mind.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 21, 2012, 09:50:46 AM
QuotePro: names can be more specific.
Agree for the most part. The San Diego Freeway being in LA is one such exception that comes to mind.
The names still work for specificity if the nearest city/neighborhood is mentioned - i.e. "the Santa Ana Freeway approaching the Four-Level" as opposed to "the Santa Ana Freeway in Norwalk."
Do any local traffic reports use both at the same time? I know in NorCal, it still does tend to be one or the other on its own (i.e. usage of 280 as a number, "the Bayshore Freeway" as name).
Quote from: TheStranger on September 21, 2012, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 21, 2012, 09:50:46 AM
QuotePro: names can be more specific.
Agree for the most part. The San Diego Freeway being in LA is one such exception that comes to mind.
The names still work for specificity if the nearest city/neighborhood is mentioned - i.e. "the Santa Ana Freeway approaching the Four-Level" as opposed to "the Santa Ana Freeway in Norwalk."
Do any local traffic reports use both at the same time? I know in NorCal, it still does tend to be one or the other on its own (i.e. usage of 280 as a number, "the Bayshore Freeway" as name).
I know the Bay Area mentions the "Nimitz" in both Oakland and Fremont. Same with the Bayshore in the City itself.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2012, 01:50:46 PMInteresting that those plans are in custody of the municipal government of Los Angeles, and not stored someplace by Caltrans, since (I believe) that Caltrans now has maintenance responsibility for the entire Southland freeway network.
Caltrans does have its own copies of the construction plans, in District 7 Map Files. It is just that the City of Los Angeles' Engineering Vault is more easily accessible. It is searchable online, and most of the aperture card archive has been scanned and can be downloaded online, though image quality is often poor due to microfilm "snow" (you know you have hit a dud when you download an aperture card set and each TIFF file averages 3.5 MB in size).
Another advantage is that bridge plans are more readily accessible for casual inspection. If you want to know what the Four Level interchange structure looked like when it was finished in 1953, you can find the original plans (not plans for any rehabilitations or seismic retrofits) through the Engineering Vault without too much trouble. To get the same information from Caltrans, you would have to supply a records request form, a special form for structure plans which includes a confidentiality statement, a scan or photocopy of your driver's license, and some sort of statement identifying a specific reason for needing the plans. In return (assuming your request was successful) you would get not just one set of structure plans from a specific project involving that bridge, but rather an extract from Caltrans' bridge records inventory system, which includes all sets of structure plans covering that particular bridge number plus inspection reports. For a casual interest in bridge design that information is a bit too much and entails too much time spent under the microscope of officialdom.
Quote from: JustDrive on September 21, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
I know the Bay Area mentions the "Nimitz" in both Oakland and Fremont. Same with the Bayshore in the City itself.
Actually, US 101 has many names within the city of San Francisco. Here are the freeway names I hear local traffic reporters using in the S.F. Bay Area.
* Bayshore (US 101 - San Jose to South S.F.)
* James Lick (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Central (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Eastshore (I-80 - Richmond to Oakland)
* Nimitz (I-880 - Oakland to San Jose)
* Redwood Highway (US 101 - Novato northward)
* MacArthur (I-580 - Castro Valley to Oakland)
* Guadalupe Pkwy (CA-87 - San Jose)
* Doyle Drive (US 101 - San Francisco... soon to be replaced with Presidio Pkwy)
* West Valley (CA-85 - San Jose to Cupertino)
* Warren (CA-13 - Oakland)
Many traffic reporters around here have names for certain interchanges...
* MacArthur Maze (I-80, I-880, I-580 - Oakland)
* Alemany Maze (I-280, US 101 - San Francisco)
* Dublin Interchange (I-580, I-680 - Dublin)
* Castro Valley "Y" (I-580, I-238, CA-238 - Castro Valley)
* Guadalupe Maze (I-280, CA-87 - San Jose... not very common but has been used)
and names for certain stretches of freeway...
* Dublin Grade (I-580 - Castro Valley and Dublin)
* Sunol Grade (I-680 - CA-238 to CA-84)
* Waldo Grade (US 101 - north of the Golden Gate Bridge)
* Altamont Pass (I-580 - east of Livermore)
* Hospital Curve (US 101 - San Francisco)
* The Skyway (I-80 - San Francisco)
* "The 280 Extension" (I-280 - north of US 101 in S.F.)
*whew* that's all I can think of right now. If I missed any, I'm sure TheStranger will fill in the gaps. ;)
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 21, 2012, 02:34:29 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on September 21, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
I know the Bay Area mentions the "Nimitz" in both Oakland and Fremont. Same with the Bayshore in the City itself.
Actually, US 101 has many names within the city of San Francisco. Here are the freeway names I hear local traffic reporters using in the S.F. Bay Area.
* Bayshore (US 101 - San Jose to South S.F.)
* James Lick (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Central (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Eastshore (I-80 - Richmond to Oakland)
* Nimitz (I-880 - Oakland to San Jose)
* Redwood Highway (US 101 - Novato northward)
* MacArthur (I-580 - Castro Valley to Oakland)
* Guadalupe Pkwy (CA-87 - San Jose)
* Doyle Drive (US 101 - San Francisco... soon to be replaced with Presidio Pkwy)
* West Valley (CA-85 - San Jose to Cupertino)
* Warren (CA-13 - Oakland)
Many traffic reporters around here have names for certain interchanges...
* MacArthur Maze (I-80, I-880, I-580 - Oakland)
* Alemany Maze (I-280, US 101 - San Francisco)
* Dublin Interchange (I-580, I-680 - Dublin)
* Castro Valley "Y" (I-580, I-238, CA-238 - Castro Valley)
* Guadalupe Maze (I-280, CA-87 - San Jose... not very common but has been used)
and names for certain stretches of freeway...
* Dublin Grade (I-580 - Castro Valley and Dublin)
* Sunol Grade (I-680 - CA-238 to CA-84)
* Waldo Grade (US 101 - north of the Golden Gate Bridge)
* Altamont Pass (I-580 - east of Livermore)
* Hospital Curve (US 101 - San Francisco)
* The Skyway (I-80 - San Francisco)
* "The 280 Extension" (I-280 - north of US 101 in S.F.)
*whew* that's all I can think of right now. If I missed any, I'm sure TheStranger will fill in the gaps. ;)
When I lived in the Bay Area the ones I heard regularly were the Nimitz and Bayshore, less often MacArthur, Eastshore and Central, rarely on the others (although a good portion of my time there was before the West Valley or Guadalupe Freeways were open. This seems to hold true still when I visit. It seems to tie in a little bit on the age of the freeways - the Bayshore and Nimitz were among the first to open, and I would imagine people still used names of highways more often than route numbers back then, so the convention stuck.
[a little OT]
I'm of the opinion that all freeways and highways should have names, and that these names (even if they're not in popular usage) should be reflected in the legislative route definitions (as should surface streets):
Route 880 is from: Route 280 in San Jose to Route 80 in Oakland via the Nimitz Freeway.
That way we would have a more accurate record year-to-year of route re-alignments, adoptions and rescindings, etc. in the legislative record. Unconstructed or unadopted alignments would also be included:
Route 710 is from: Route 47 in Long Beach to Route 210 in Pasadena via the Long Beach Freeway, including an unconstructed routing to be determined between Valley Boulevard and California Boulevard
Some of the longer routes' definitions (101, 1, etc.) might get lengthy. Several years ago I went through and re-wrote most of the routes definitions to reflect this, making up names for freeways and highways where I couldn't find any existing names.
[/a little OT]
This is actually what confused me in California. I would ask people where I-10 is, and they would immediately correct me and say that it's "The 10 Freeway." I drove from New Orleans to California on I-10, but it suddenly changed to The 10, not just any 10. Here in the Bayou State, we refer to our Interstates as I-10 or I-20, and any road called "highway 20" or "highway 10" is actually LA 10 or LA 20. We also use names, like the Inner Loop (LA 3132), Baton Rouge Expressway (I-110), and the "Crescent City Connection" (US 90 Business).
The use of the word "the" in front of the number would be confusing here, because saying "the 59" could refer to I-59 or LA 59, both of which exist about twenty miles from each other. My GPS always tells me that when I'm in Los Angeles, to merge onto U.S. Route 80 instead of I-10.
Quote from: mcdonaat on September 21, 2012, 04:49:31 PM
This is actually what confused me in California. I would ask people where I-10 is, and they would immediately correct me and say that it's "The 10 Freeway." I drove from New Orleans to California on I-10, but it suddenly changed to The 10, not just any 10. Here in the Bayou State, we refer to our Interstates as I-10 or I-20, and any road called "highway 20" or "highway 10" is actually LA 10 or LA 20. We also use names, like the Inner Loop (LA 3132), Baton Rouge Expressway (I-110), and the "Crescent City Connection" (US 90 Business).
The use of the word "the" in front of the number would be confusing here, because saying "the 59" could refer to I-59 or LA 59, both of which exist about twenty miles from each other. My GPS always tells me that when I'm in Los Angeles, to merge onto U.S. Route 80 instead of I-10.
Adding "the" in front of a route number is purely a southern California thing. Northern Californians typically say the route number (80, 50, 880, 101, etc) or preface the route number with "highway" or "interstate" or "I" or "US" or "route" (i.e. I-80, US 50, Highway 85).
Southern Californians can get away with saying "the 5" or "the 10" because California does not allow route number duplication. US 10 and CA-10 cannot and do not exist because there is already a route 10 (I-10). Hence the potential hub-bub about getting an interstate designation for CA-99. If Caltrans wants to renumber CA-99 as I-9, then they would also have to renumber CA-9 (Los Gatos to Santa Cruz) to resolve the conflicting route numbers. CA-9 runs through some populated areas (Los Gatos, Saratoga, Boulder Creek, Felton, Santa Cruz, etc). That's why there are some (including myself) that think that CA-99 should be renumbered to I-7 because CA-7 is a short highway from I-8 to the Mexican border that can easily be renumbered with minimal impact.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2012, 08:21:43 AMSo even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think the Times is making the right call.
This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator. Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.
There are some pros and cons to the traditionalist argument. Pro: names are arguably more stable. The Harbor Freeway has always been the Harbor Freeway, despite being Route 11 for decades, and now Route 110 (I-110 south and Calif. 110 north). Con: names are not always stable. Cases in point: Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway), Los Angeles River Freeway (now better known as the Long Beach Freeway). Pro: names can be more specific. "Harbor Freeway" and "Arroyo Seco Parkway" give a better idea of location since both are discrete parts of Route 110. Con: Names do not have very good relatability to maps even in Los Angeles. Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs.
CalTrans, or perhaps it was still Division of Highways at that time, went through a period of emphasizing freeway name in the mid to late 1960s. Prior to that, the only use of a freeway name prior to an interchange was on exit sequence signs, and on an auxiliary (NEXT EXIT) sign just before the interchange. Signage at the interchange itself was direction/route number/destination. Due to complaints from the public, this style of signage (http://goo.gl/maps/GTZwF)was introduced. Since that time, a number of freeways without generally well-known names have opened in southern California (Gardena Freeway, anyone?) and so route numbers have become predominant.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 21, 2012, 02:34:29 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on September 21, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
I know the Bay Area mentions the "Nimitz" in both Oakland and Fremont. Same with the Bayshore in the City itself.
Actually, US 101 has many names within the city of San Francisco. Here are the freeway names I hear local traffic reporters using in the S.F. Bay Area.
* Bayshore (US 101 - San Jose to South S.F.)
* James Lick (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Central (US 101 - San Francisco)
* Eastshore (I-80 - Richmond to Oakland)
* Nimitz (I-880 - Oakland to San Jose)
* Redwood Highway (US 101 - Novato northward)
* MacArthur (I-580 - Castro Valley to Oakland)
* Guadalupe Pkwy (CA-87 - San Jose)
* Doyle Drive (US 101 - San Francisco... soon to be replaced with Presidio Pkwy)
* West Valley (CA-85 - San Jose to Cupertino)
* Warren (CA-13 - Oakland)
I don't think I've ever heard the James Lick name used in traffic reports at all, only Bayshore and Central for 101. (This is probably in part because the "James Lick" name includes the rest of former LRN 68 - the I-80 Skyway - and also because seems to be more of a honorary name in the same vein as "John F. Foran" for 280 in SF).
There IS one sign for the Bayshore Freeway from 280 north approaching Alemany Boulevard (historic US 101).
Was "Stevens Creek Freeway" ever used much in traffic reports for 85?
"Cypress Freeway" for I-880 between the Maze and 980 has been deprecated since being rebuilt in 1997 (probably because the current alignment no longer runs right above what was Cypress Street, but has since been renamed to Mandela Parkway).
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 21, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
CalTrans, or perhaps it was still Division of Highways at that time, went through a period of emphasizing freeway name in the mid to late 1960s. Prior to that, the only use of a freeway name prior to an interchange was on exit sequence signs, and on an auxiliary (NEXT EXIT) sign just before the interchange. Signage at the interchange itself was direction/route number/destination. Due to complaints from the public, this style of signage (http://goo.gl/maps/GTZwF)was introduced. Since that time, a number of freeways without generally well-known names have opened in southern California (Gardena Freeway, anyone?) and so route numbers have become predominant.
Post-1960s examples of new signage with freeway names:
- Martin Luther King Jr. Freeway signage for Route 94 in San Diego, a corridor that until the late 1980s was previously named "Helix Freeway" after a nearby peak.
- Arroyo Seco Parkway name restoration for the non-interstate segment of 110 from US 101 to Pasadena, new signage added starting in 2010 or so.
- Capital City Freeway name for Business 80 in Sacramento/West Sacramento since 1996.
Radio stations in DFW use names and numbers in tandem usually: i.e. 35E Stemmons Freeway or 121 Sam Rayburn Tollway. (The I/US/SH designation is usually omitted, but is understood since there isn't duplication of numbers of major routes).
A couple of oddities: The Dallas North Tollway doesn't have a number, funny enough, and the George Bush Turnpike is referred to as 190 in traffic reports but isn't signed as such.
The print medium, however, is different. I think a higher degree of formality is required, especially on first reference. "Interstate 405" or the "San Diego Freeway" (or both) should be the first reference and "the 405" can be used thereafter. Slipping into vernacular on first reference is just another step toward idiocracy.
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2012, 04:09:05 PM
121 Sam Rayburn Tollway
Which is actually signed with SRT in a toll state highway shield; SH 121 is the frontage roads.
I must admit, when I first moved out to L.A., I had a hard time getting used to the freeway naming customs there, but have since adjusted rather nicely. Being from Chicago, I have been accustomed to the locals referring to their expressways by name rather than the number (i.e. Dan Ryan instead of I-90/I-94).
Quote from: Henry on September 25, 2012, 11:03:21 AM
I must admit, when I first moved out to L.A., I had a hard time getting used to the freeway naming customs there, but have since adjusted rather nicely. Being from Chicago, I have been accustomed to the locals referring to their expressways by name rather than the number (i.e. Dan Ryan instead of I-90/I-94).
In Chicago, the names get much more usage on the pull-through signs than they do here - even at the peak of LA-area name emphasis (1960s), the route names were more easily found at major interchanges than throughout the freeway network.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 21, 2012, 07:30:00 PM
I don't think I've ever heard the James Lick name used in traffic reports at all, only Bayshore and Central for 101. (This is probably in part because the "James Lick" name includes the rest of former LRN 68 - the I-80 Skyway - and also because seems to be more of a honorary name in the same vein as "John F. Foran" for 280 in SF).
Occasionally, you used to hear "Lick Skyway" to refer to the I-80 portion, but I don't recall a traffic reporter ever using "James Lick Freeway" to refer to US-101.
In general, Bay Area traffic reporters use the names far less frequently than they did 10-15 years ago, most reports I hear solely refer to the route numbers and a handful of locations (e.g. MacArthur Maze).
QuoteWas "Stevens Creek Freeway" ever used much in traffic reports for 85?
A little bit after it was first opened.
(Was this even a real name? CA-85 used to dead-end at Stevens Creek Blvd, so that's how the SB exits were signed from I-280. In any case, it was never signed or used 'officially' as far as I know. Google Maps calls it the W Valley Fwy.)
Quote from: flowmotion on September 26, 2012, 11:38:42 AM
QuoteWas "Stevens Creek Freeway" ever used much in traffic reports for 85?
A little bit after it was first opened.
(Was this even a real name? CA-85 used to dead-end at Stevens Creek Blvd, so that's how the SB exits were signed from I-280. In any case, it was never signed or used 'officially' as far as I know. Google Maps calls it the W Valley Fwy.)
Apparently the "old" section of route 85 from Stevens Creek Blvd north to US 101 has three names. That portion of 85 was originally named the Stevens Creek Freeway but when the new section of route 85 that opened in 1993, the entire route was named the West Valley Freeway. In 2007, the entire route (except from Quito Rd to Prospect Rd) was also named the Norman Y Mineta Highway a few years ago with signs being installed near El Camino Real southbound and near Cottle Road northbound.
So while Google Maps is technically correct in calling the entire length of route 85 the West Valley Freeway, I still refer to the old section as the Stevens Creek Freeway.
Quote from: flowmotion on September 26, 2012, 11:38:42 AM
Occasionally, you used to hear "Lick Skyway" to refer to the I-80 portion, but I don't recall a traffic reporter ever using "James Lick Freeway" to refer to US-101.
Yeah, I have heard "Skyway" in the last week to refer to 80 in SF (no James Lick).
Quote from: flowmotion
In general, Bay Area traffic reporters use the names far less frequently than they did 10-15 years ago, most reports I hear solely refer to the route numbers and a handful of locations (e.g. MacArthur Maze).
What DOES surprise me is that the (traditional, non-honorary) names were known enough to be used - despite never being signed to the frequency LA names were! I know of only one Bayshore Freeway sign left (280 north approaching 101). There's a few Junipero Serra signs on 280...
MacArthur Freeway signage does exist in several spots near the same-named Maze, i.e. 80 west approaching the junction.
Are there any Nimitz Freeway or Eastshore Freeway signs anywhere?
I feel the names that got the most play in traffic reports/common usage are the ones that existed before the freeways were built - Eastshore, Bayshore, MacArthur (and Junipero Serra to a much lesser degree), of which the namesake surface roads all still exist in varying forms. The Central Freeway has never had signage identifying its identity but the controversy over its existence over the years probably kept the name in public consciousness; the Nimitz's traffic woes led to its moniker becoming well-known.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 26, 2012, 12:00:03 PM
Apparently the "old" section of route 85 from Stevens Creek Blvd north to US 101 has three names. That portion of 85 was originally named the Stevens Creek Freeway but when the new section of route 85 that opened in 1993, the entire route was named the West Valley Freeway.
Thanks. I'm sure the traffic reporters used "Stevens Creek Fwy" to ID the new section as well, for a while. Although, it's odd to have Stevens Creek Freeway run perpendicular to Stevens Creek Boulevard, so it's probably a good thing it didn't stick.
For a number of years, KQED (public radio) would include Sacramento traffic in their reports. Occasionally they would refer to the "The Capital City" (Biz-80) or "The Eldorado" (US 50).
(Although, I don't know how 'reliable' traffic reporters really are. They're probably mostly new hires from Iowa who get handed a translation sheet. Very very few people "IRL" use the freeway names.)
Quote from: TheStranger on September 26, 2012, 04:15:20 PMAre there any Nimitz Freeway or Eastshore Freeway signs anywhere?
Offhand, I can't think of any. There might have been some mileage signs that referred to the Nimitz & a reassurance sign which said Eastshore around Ashby Street. But no BGSs in my memory.
On the other hand, the Warren Fwy (CA-13) is still fully signed from I-580 MacArthur. New reflective-style exit number signs in the SB direction even.
Quote from: flowmotion on September 27, 2012, 01:20:19 AM
Thanks. I'm sure the traffic reporters used "Stevens Creek Fwy" to ID the new section as well, for a while. Although, it's odd to have Stevens Creek Freeway run perpendicular to Stevens Creek Boulevard, so it's probably a good thing it didn't stick.
Actually, the reason why that section of CA-85 was called the Stevens Creek Freeway was because it roughly parallels a creek called Stevens Creek. Lately, whenever a traffic reporter refers to route 85 by name, they typically use West Valley Freeway over Stevens Creek Freeway however, 99% of the time, traffic reporters use the route number.
Quote from: flowmotion on September 27, 2012, 01:34:16 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on September 26, 2012, 04:15:20 PMAre there any Nimitz Freeway or Eastshore Freeway signs anywhere?
Offhand, I can't think of any. There might have been some mileage signs that referred to the Nimitz & a reassurance sign which said Eastshore around Ashby Street. But no BGSs in my memory.
A slight tangent:
I was just reading a thread at another website discussing whether SFO or OAK was the more convenient Bay Area airport...
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5572271/
Nimitz Freeway name used in several posts!
I've always found its presence in regular conversation fascinating given its paucity of signage over the years, even as fewer signs in recent times mention the trio of Bayshore/Eastshore/MacArthur (all names that existed prior to the 1958 christening of then-Route 17 as Nimitz).
I've always liked the names, but I agree that recent freeway naming kind of tarnished it. Not just things like Gardena Freeway, but when politicians (who weren't former Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, or war heroes) started getting freeways named after them, that killed it for me. The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105). Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you.
I also understand that a local county supervisor, Sig Sanchez, managed to get a portion of 101 near Gilroy named after him. That's sort of the icing on the "freeway names don't mean much anymore" cake.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on September 28, 2012, 01:27:29 AM
The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105). Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you.
Was it named after him while he was still alive? He DID specifically advocate that project. BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.
The KNX traffic report on my way home used names as often, if not more so, than numbers. Long Beach, Santa Ana, Pomona, Santa Monica, San Diego. Most used numbers right after, as in "on the Long Beach Freeway, 710 north at Imperial Highway..." The only number without name was I-605 (seeing as how San Gabriel River Freeway is a bit lengthy).
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 02:10:18 AM
Was it named after him while he was still alive? He DID specifically advocate that project. BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.
"
I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.
Quote from: DTComposer on September 28, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.
Thanks for the update on radio-report usage! How is Route 91 referred to in reports?
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 02:10:18 AM
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on September 28, 2012, 01:27:29 AM
The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105). Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you.
Was it named after him while he was still alive? He DID specifically advocate that project. BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.
He advocated for it and they named it after him shortly after he died. Although it was in the 20-30 years of planning stages called the Century Freeway, I believe it opened as the Glenn Anderson Freeway.
A lot of traffic reports still refer to it as the Century Freeway, and the only official acknowledgment of its name, besides the legislative bill itself, are some BGS along the route, usually after the pull-throughs at freeway junctions.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 03:25:16 AM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 28, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.
Thanks for the update on radio-report usage! How is Route 91 referred to in reports?
I've usually heard it called "The 91," at least on KNX traffic reports.
Remember that Ca. 91 has three different names - from west to east they are:
Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway
And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes (http://www.91expresslanes.com/) in Orange County.
In addition to calling 91 as 91 or Riverside Freeway (don't hear Artesia or Gardena Freeway, but those names come up on occasion), KNX also calls 91 the Santa Ana Canyon for the portion that runs through Anaheim Hills to Corona. This includes the Express Lanes and is one of the busiest sections of 91.
Regards,
Andy
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2012, 10:19:39 AM
Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway
And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes (http://www.91expresslanes.com/) in Orange County.
You'll sometimes hear Artesia Freeway, but I don't think I've ever heard Gardena Freeway. The naming of the Artesia Freeway makes sense since it parallels/supplants Artesia Boulevard, but the use of Artesia as a control city on pull-through signs is, IMO, useless. Arteisa (the city) has about 16,000 people, no appreciable landmarks...Cerritos, Bellflower...many other better choices for that.
Quote from: DTComposer on September 29, 2012, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2012, 10:19:39 AM
Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway
And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes (http://www.91expresslanes.com/) in Orange County.
You'll sometimes hear Artesia Freeway, but I don't think I've ever heard Gardena Freeway. The naming of the Artesia Freeway makes sense since it parallels/supplants Artesia Boulevard, but the use of Artesia as a control city on pull-through signs is, IMO, useless. Arteisa (the city) has about 16,000 people, no appreciable landmarks...Cerritos, Bellflower...many other better choices for that.
Don't forget it has two -- count'em -- two exits off the 91.
I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them. I still have Californians say "freeway" more than of "tollway", don't hear much of a "turnpike" where those kinds of roads are rare in my state, and instead of "highway" more often than most regionalisms in the US.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 21, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2012, 08:21:43 AMSo even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think the Times is making the right call.
This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator. Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.
There are some pros and cons to the traditionalist argument. Pro: names are arguably more stable. The Harbor Freeway has always been the Harbor Freeway, despite being Route 11 for decades, and now Route 110 (I-110 south and Calif. 110 north). Con: names are not always stable. Cases in point: Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway), Los Angeles River Freeway (now better known as the Long Beach Freeway). Pro: names can be more specific. "Harbor Freeway" and "Arroyo Seco Parkway" give a better idea of location since both are discrete parts of Route 110. Con: Names do not have very good relatability to maps even in Los Angeles. Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs.
CalTrans, or perhaps it was still Division of Highways at that time, went through a period of emphasizing freeway name in the mid to late 1960s. Prior to that, the only use of a freeway name prior to an interchange was on exit sequence signs, and on an auxiliary (NEXT EXIT) sign just before the interchange. Signage at the interchange itself was direction/route number/destination. Due to complaints from the public, this style of signage (http://goo.gl/maps/GTZwF)was introduced. Since that time, a number of freeways without generally well-known names have opened in southern California (Gardena Freeway, anyone?) and so route numbers have become predominant.
You should be right about this even the US-101 (ventura freeway) has signs like the one you posted at the interchange with I-405 (San Diego Freeway) and most socal highway interchanges will even say the current freeway name and the intersecting freeway.
Quote from: Mike D boy on October 01, 2012, 12:20:35 AM
I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.
Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica." I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.
Quote from: TheStranger on October 08, 2012, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Mike D boy on October 01, 2012, 12:20:35 AM
I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.
Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica." I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.
You seem to forgot about the Long Beach and Ventura Freeways. Long Beach Freeway runs from East Los Angeles up to the port of Long Beach, but the Ventura Freeway starts in Pasadena and the name ends at the Santa Barbara/ ventura county line
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on October 08, 2012, 12:17:05 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on October 08, 2012, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Mike D boy on October 01, 2012, 12:20:35 AM
I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.
Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica." I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.
You seem to forgot about the Long Beach and Ventura Freeways.
I didn't forget at all, I was just trying to be succinct with examples.
The Bay Area is pretty much the same thing - names that have existed for over 50 years remain in use (Bayshore, Central, Nimitz, etc.) while later ones (Sinclair) never get mentioned.
Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South? :hmmm: :-D :pan:
Here in St. Louis, everybody around here (in my opinion) thinks I-70 is the only interstate in the area! People around here say Highway 70, Highway 64 (most disrespect it and say 40 :angry:), Highway 270, etc. When they're in a traffic jam they say they're "stuck" on, for example, 270.
When it comes to names, the only route people call by the name is MO-364/D (people refer to it as Page Avenue or the Page Extension, depends if you're in St. Louis County or St. Charles County), otherwise they use numbers. The bridges do get called by their names though, with the news reporters sometimes using the route number. For instance, I-64 is the Daniel Boone Bridge.
To be precise on topic, maybe Ron King is a ARE. :biggrin: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7818.0
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on October 08, 2012, 02:46:23 PM
Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South? :hmmm: :-D :pan:
That's not the left shoulder... that's an HOV lane! Older Los Angeles freeways that have had HOV lanes added typically don't have left shoulders to make room for the HOV lane. Freeways that are rebuilt to add HOV lanes (like I-5 through Orange County) do have full left shoulders.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 08, 2012, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on October 08, 2012, 02:46:23 PM
Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South? :hmmm: :-D :pan:
That's not the left shoulder... that's an HOV lane! Older Los Angeles freeways that have had HOV lanes added typically don't have left shoulders to make room for the HOV lane. Freeways that are rebuilt to add HOV lanes (like I-5 through Orange County) do have full left shoulders.
Sorry, didn't look like an HOV lane to me. I stand corrected.
I was born and raised in the 'burbs of L.A. Moved to the Cleveland area at the age of 30 back in 1995 and I didn't notice at first that people gave directions without the "the", saying "Take 480 to 271 south, etc etc". I was so used to my LA terminology using the "THEs" (which I call "mixed" terminology because I alternate between the names and the numbers): "Take the 110 to the San Diego north..."
However, the difference was pointed out to me very rudely by someone here.
I worked in a Singing Telegram office (believe it or not) for 6.5 years in L.A. and 9 years in Northeast Ohio and I was asking directions of a fellow messenger: "Do I take the 271 up to the 90 east and then exit - ?" and he actually yelled at me: "WHAT'S WITH the THE?? THERE IS no 'THE' IN THE FREEWAY NAMES!! YOU JUST TAKE 271 TO 90 WEST AND EXIT AT BISHOP ROAD!!"
Dude was so frickin' hostile about it that I now subconsciously change how I give directions - I don't even think about it. When I am here in Ohio, I leave out the "THEs" and when I am back home in L.A., I automatically put the "THEs" right back in - but I still alternate between the name and the number depending on which one my brain thinks of first!
While I don't live in Phoenix anymore, I do recall when I was younger hearing the traffic reports and the names being used semi-regularly. You have the:
I-17 "Black Canyon Freeway"
SR51 "Squaw Peak Parkway**"
US60 (used to be SR360) "Superstition Freeway"
Loop 202 "Red Mountain Freeway"/"Santan Freeway"/"South Mountain Freeway" (yet to be built)
I-10 "Papago Freeway"
SR143 "Hohokam Expressway"
The only Phoenix-area freeway that never really had "names" catch on was the Loop 101, and that's because it was pretty much the last "loop" to get completed. It has 3 names that I know of, but as I said, aren't used much. "Agua Fria Freeway", "Pima Freeway", and "Price Freeway".
(**although it was changed IIRC in 2003 to "Piestewa Parkway" in honor of Lori Piestewa, the first Native American killed in the Iraq war. It was a compromise after YEARS of controversy about the use of the name "Squaw", which apparently is offensive in some tribes),
I don't know how much they use the names anymore, but I would guess that the whole reason the names were used to begin with was the fact that so much of the population growth in Phoenix has indeed come from Southern California.
Quote from: BigRedEO on November 29, 2012, 12:27:20 PM
"Take the 110 to the San Diego north..."
that would confuse me, since the city of San Diego is to the south of that junction. in fact, that is the reason the names were deprecated by CalTrans starting in the 70s.
Quote from: BigRedEO on November 29, 2012, 12:27:20 PM
I was born and raised in the 'burbs of L.A. Moved to the Cleveland area at the age of 30 back in 1995 and I didn't notice at first that people gave directions without the "the", saying "Take 480 to 271 south, etc etc". I was so used to my LA terminology using the "THEs" (which I call "mixed" terminology because I alternate between the names and the numbers): "Take the 110 to the San Diego north..."
However, the difference was pointed out to me very rudely by someone here.
I worked in a Singing Telegram office (believe it or not) for 6.5 years in L.A. and 9 years in Northeast Ohio and I was asking directions of a fellow messenger: "Do I take the 271 up to the 90 east and then exit - ?" and he actually yelled at me: "WHAT'S WITH the THE?? THERE IS no 'THE' IN THE FREEWAY NAMES!! YOU JUST TAKE 271 TO 90 WEST AND EXIT AT BISHOP ROAD!!"
Dude was so frickin' hostile about it that I now subconsciously change how I give directions - I don't even think about it. When I am here in Ohio, I leave out the "THEs" and when I am back home in L.A., I automatically put the "THEs" right back in - but I still alternate between the name and the number depending on which one my brain thinks of first!
This sort of thing could spark a whole discussion about regionalisms that would probably warrant its own thread.
Referring to TV stations, for example. Growing up here in the DC area everyone referred to the stations by number: Channel 4 (NBC), Channel 7 (ABC), Channel 9 (CBS), Channel 26 (PBS), Channel 20 (independent when I was a kid), etc. Nobody ever used the network designators I just mentioned and even fewer people ever referred to the stations by call letters. I don't think I ever heard anyone use the letters. Then during my second year of college one of my roommates, who was from a part of Connecticut not far from New York City, was looking at the TV guide in the Washington
Post and asked, "Do we get WRC here?" The rest of us, all of whom were from the DC area, had no idea what he was talking about until we looked at the TV guide. "WRC" is the DC-area NBC affiliate. We all knew it solely as "Channel 4." My relatives in Brooklyn all use the letters to refer to their stations, though.
I never hear anybody use the word "freeway" except in reference to particular roads that have that word in the name (the Whitehurst Freeway in DC, for example). Nobody here ever says "Highway XX" either–it's either just the number like you suggest, or sometimes "Route XX" (e.g., "My brothers lives off Route 236"), or often "I-XX" when it's an Interstate. (I remember when I was in my teens and one of the parents in our Boy Scout troop gave directions as "Take IH-95 towards Baltimore." We all looked at him and said, "What the fuck is with that 'IH' crap?") NEVER heard anyone use "the" with a highway number except when referring to European roads (as in, "To get back to Heathrow take the M4 towards London.").
The funny thing is, though, that with so many people coming here from other parts of the country you'd think we'd hear more variation, but we don't.
Quote from: Sonic99 on December 04, 2012, 12:47:32 AM
While I don't live in Phoenix anymore, I do recall when I was younger hearing the traffic reports and the names being used semi-regularly. You have the:
I-17 "Black Canyon Freeway"
SR51 "Squaw Peak Parkway**"
US60 (used to be SR360) "Superstition Freeway"
Loop 202 "Red Mountain Freeway"/"Santan Freeway"/"South Mountain Freeway" (yet to be built)
I-10 "Papago Freeway"
SR143 "Hohokam Expressway"
The only Phoenix-area freeway that never really had "names" catch on was the Loop 101, and that's because it was pretty much the last "loop" to get completed. It has 3 names that I know of, but as I said, aren't used much. "Agua Fria Freeway", "Pima Freeway", and "Price Freeway".
(**although it was changed IIRC in 2003 to "Piestewa Parkway" in honor of Lori Piestewa, the first Native American killed in the Iraq war. It was a compromise after YEARS of controversy about the use of the name "Squaw", which apparently is offensive in some tribes),
I don't know how much they use the names anymore, but I would guess that the whole reason the names were used to begin with was the fact that so much of the population growth in Phoenix has indeed come from Southern California.
The Names Are Used by Detour Dan and other metro phoenix traffic/news reporters due to streets crossings/exits meeting the freeway at 2 different locations
The Freeway Names must be Used for both the 101 and 202 Freeways
101 Exits/Meets Mcdowell, Thomas, Indian School, Cactus Thunderbird & Bell on the AGUA Fria & Pima Freeways
202 Mclintock, Dobson, Alma School, Gilbert Rd, Lindsay, Val Vista, Higley Rd, Recker, Power, Sossaman & Haws on both the San Tan and Red Mountain Freeways (Mcdowell Road Meets or has exits from the Red Mountain Freeway 3 Times) On the South Mountain Freeway
40th Street (Red Mountain), 24th Street (Red Mountain), Baseline (All 3 Segments), Southern (All 3), Broadway (Red Mountain) & Van Buren (Red Mountain)
They are used optionally on the 10, 17, 51, 60, 143 and 303 Freeways.
Quote from: mcdonaat on September 21, 2012, 04:49:31 PM
This is actually...
... My GPS always tells me that when I'm in Los Angeles, to merge onto U.S. Route 80 instead of I-10.
So THAT'S how I got stuck here in Bellevue Washington for the last year and a half. All I remember is seeing that sign somewhere in Cuuuuucamonga.
Post Merge: December 09, 2012, 04:33:08 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 20, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator. Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.
Speaking of COLORADO FREEWAY, is that still the moniker for the short extension just east off of the I-5 skirting Griffith Park and Glendale city. ? It was that way when I left LA during the late 80's.
LA_MetroMan
Removed excessive quoting. --roadfro
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 03:25:16 AM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 28, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.
Thanks for the update on radio-report usage! How is Route 91 referred to in reports?
Just in case someone is counting - I prefer the names over the numbers. Although not practical, it's a bit romantic.
The Redondo Beach Freeway, Gardena Freeway, Corona Freeway and now a few stretche3s of (insert slain CHP officer name here) is all the 91. Probably the proper way (and the way I used to hear it) is "The 91 westbound through .....".
I'm keen on naming freeways after places not persons.
KMPC TRAFFIC ON THE SIXES:
Westbound Sgt. Gonzales freeway is clogged up just beyond Akito Furiyima Interchange but clears up by General Whazzit Freeway as it merges into the David Campbell transit corridor.
Can you imagine this is all within 1/4 mile ? LOL
Quote from: LA_MetroMan on December 06, 2012, 10:51:27 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 03:25:16 AM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 28, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.
Thanks for the update on radio-report usage! How is Route 91 referred to in reports?
Just in case someone is counting - I prefer the names over the numbers. Although not practical, it's a bit romantic.
The Redondo Beach Freeway, Gardena Freeway, Corona Freeway and now a few stretche3s of (insert slain CHP officer name here) is all the 91. Probably the proper way (and the way I used to hear it) is "The 91 westbound through .....".
I'm keen on naming freeways after places not persons.
KMPC TRAFFIC ON THE SIXES:
Westbound Sgt. Gonzales freeway is clogged up just beyond Akito Furiyima Interchange but clears up by General Whazzit Freeway as it merges into the David Campbell transit corridor.
Can you imagine this is all within 1/4 mile ? LOL
Even locals in Ventura county still refer the Golden State Freeway and the Ventura Freeway over the 5 freeway and also the 101 freeway, and this makes it easier to non Southern California motorists who are trying to drive the freways of LA and SD, but here in the Leigh Valley area Bee 104.4 traffic reports do refer the Northeast extension of I-476 as the turnpike wheras the William Penn Higway segement of I-78 is refered as 78. :D
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on December 15, 2012, 02:51:12 PM
Even locals in Ventura county still refer the Golden State Freeway and the Ventura Freeway over the 5 freeway and also the 101 freeway, and this makes it easier to non Southern California motorists who are trying to drive the freways of LA and SD ...
Not sure how referring to the "Golden State Freeway" and "Ventura Freeway" makes it easier for non-Southern Californians... The freeway names appear on increasingly fewer signs (if any) and numbers/shields have come into predominant usage.
Even on some non-freeways, the highway name seems to be more common. I once mentioned how I drove up CA 2 to Mount Wilson and somebody said, "Oh, the Angeles Crest Highway."
I grew up in Orange County, and remember using the names and highway numbers interchangeably ("The 5" or "The Santa Ana Freeway"), and it's a hard habit to break when you move to another area.
Here in the Denver area, you'll hear references to the "Valley Hwy" occasionally (the "official" name of I-25 thru central Denver), but most refer to it as I-25. Traffic reports do reference US 36 between Denver & Boulder as "The Boulder Turnpike" or just the "Turnpike". There is one other freeway that is referred to by name, and that is 6th Avenue (technically, the 6th Avenue Freeway), which carries US 6 from I-25 in Denver west to Golden. Otherwise, you hear "I-225", "I-270", "I-76", or "I-70".
"C-470" (SH 470) is the southwestern quarter of the beltway, "E-470" (Extension 470 Tollway) is the eastern half of the beltway, and "Northwest Parkway" is the northwestern eighth of the beltway (the stretch from Broomfield south to Golden is still a proposal).
Oh, and freeways are generally referred to as "highways", and surface street highways are referred to by their street names ("Santa Fe Dr" for US 85 from Denver south to C-470, then "US 85" south of there to Castle Rock; "Vasquez Blvd" for US 6-85 from I-270 to I-76).
I did live in Portland for two years, and most of the traffic reports there just refer to the route number, except for I-84 between I-205 & I-5, which is referred to as the "Banfield Freeway", or US 26 west of downtown to Beaverton & Hillsboro ("Sunset Hwy"). They do refer to specific structures, such as bridges (the Marquam & Fremont Bridges, for instance) or the Vista Ridge Tunnel on US 26 (or the Sylvan Summit just west of there...which can get interesting during cold weather).
That article makes me think of this forum, why was an article even needed to be written about that? I'm late on this but I thought it was funny. We clearly know what you mean if you say it any three ways "the 5, the 5 Freeway, or Golden State Fwy", and as it said context is key but still, it's funny because people on this forum get mad if you don't say it ~*"the proper way"*~
Quote from: bulkyorled on January 02, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
That article makes me think of this forum, why was an article even needed to be written about that? I'm late on this but I thought it was funny. We clearly know what you mean if you say it any three ways "the 5, the 5 Freeway, or Golden State Fwy", and as it said context is key but still, it's funny because people on this forum get mad if you don't say it ~*"the proper way"*~
I started the thread because I lived in the L.A. area and learned to drive there when freeways were only known by their name. At the time I learned to drive, calling something the "11 Freeway" (as it would have been known then) would have caused a blank stare. When the I-605 Freeway was opened, there was a lot of amused commentary that the highway was only marked "605 Freeway" rather than with an official sobriquet; in this case, it would have been "San Gabriel River Freeway", so you can see why the name was omitted. This is why I find it amusing that sometime after I left the area, the numbers --- prefixed by "the" --- suddenly became the predominant way of referring to freeways, even though the 60s standard of marking freeway junctions mostly emphasized the number over the name, long before this cultural shift took hold.
Since I left southern California, I haven't lived in or near a metro area where freeways are predominantly identified by name over number. Nowhere have I heard any part of the highway system referred to by "the" [any number]. Thus, I found adoption of an official style guide adopting this usage by the L.A. Times noteworthy.
Quote from: bulkyorled on January 02, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
That article makes me think of this forum, why was an article even needed to be written about that? I'm late on this but I thought it was funny. We clearly know what you mean if you say it any three ways "the 5, the 5 Freeway, or Golden State Fwy", and as it said context is key but still, it's funny because people on this forum get mad if you don't say it ~*"the proper way"*~
What I find interesting (and a little nauseating being a native northern Californian... kidding :cool:) is how out-of-staters think *everybody* in California refers to freeways as "the 5" or "the 210" or "the 280".
Quote from: bulkyorled on January 02, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
That article makes me think of this forum, why was an article even needed to be written about that? I'm late on this but I thought it was funny. We clearly know what you mean if you say it any three ways "the 5, the 5 Freeway, or Golden State Fwy", and as it said context is key but still, it's funny because people on this forum get mad if you don't say it ~*"the proper way"*~
The article explains why it was written. The LA Times uses a particular style in order to be consistant, and a reader inquired/complained about it.
Now, off to read New York Times articles about Nato and compact disks.
Quote from: flowmotion on January 03, 2013, 01:51:55 AM
The article explains why it was written. The LA Times uses a particular style in order to be consistant, and a reader inquired/complained about it.
Now, off to read New York Times articles about Nato and compact disks.
and calling everyone "Mr. Obama" and "Mr. Romney". yeah, 538 definitely lost something there...
(I believe the NYT at one point made an exception and did not write "Mr. Hitler".)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 03, 2013, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: flowmotion on January 03, 2013, 01:51:55 AM
The article explains why it was written. The LA Times uses a particular style in order to be consistant, and a reader inquired/complained about it.
Now, off to read New York Times articles about Nato and compact disks.
and calling everyone "Mr. Obama" and "Mr. Romney". yeah, 538 definitely lost something there...
(I believe the NYT at one point made an exception and did not write "Mr. Hitler".)
NYT style is no courtesy title for historical figures (Lincoln, Beethoven, etc.)
Quote from: Road Hog on January 03, 2013, 04:43:53 PM
NYT style is no courtesy title for historical figures (Lincoln, Beethoven, etc.)
I believe this occurred at a time when Hitler was a contemporary figure.
Its kind of funny. i will refer the freeways by their number designations yet in Hawaii, I refer freeways and highway in Hawaii by name. I dunno, maybe its because I got used to calling freeways by their name since I was a local in the region for 2 years.
Even Kiis fm uses the 14 fwy, 605 fwy, 91 fwy in their traffic reports, but occasionally sometimes uses San Gabriel River fwy, Antelope Valley, and the Artesia fwy in the traffic reports. Another thing to consider is that Southern California residents who visit the Lehigh Valley region will use this the number here fwy format ex the 476 turnpike, 22 thruway, 78 hwy their street names are PA turnpike NE extension, Lehigh Valley thruway, and the 78th division highway, or William Penn highway (Northampton County) segment of I-78