I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs. That play last night was obviously an interception. Roger Goodell needs to be fired and the NFL needs to make a deal with the real refs immediately. The NFL's brand is tarnished, and it's only going to get worse. Remember how badly baseball suffered during the strike year? It still hasn't recovered. The same thing is going to happen to the NFL. I've seen my share of bad calls and last night's call was one of the worst I've ever seen. The Seattle QB is the first player in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs. That play last night was obviously an interception. Roger Goodell needs to be fired and the NFL needs to make a deal with the real refs immediately. The NFL's brand is tarnished, and it's only going to get worse. Remember how badly baseball suffered during the strike year? It still hasn't recovered. The same thing is going to happen to the NFL. I've seen my share of bad calls and last night's call was one of the worst I've ever seen. The Seattle QB is the first player in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.
It's not the fault of the NFL ... it is the fault of Big Labor, i.e. the trade unions of the refs and the refs themselves.
It's the fault of the NFL for not coming to terms with the refs. For something that is as important to so many Americans like football, only the best will do, even if that means paying them more than you think they're worth. You can't put a price on fair play.
I presume these refs officiate football at other levels -- college or high school. Wouldn't this poor performance by them at the pro level call into question their competency to officiate at their normal levels?
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:04:54 PM
It's the fault of the NFL for not coming to terms with the refs. For something that is as important to so many Americans like football, only the best will do, even if that means paying them more than you think they're worth. You can't put a price on fair play.
The NFL is not at fault for refusing to accept the demands of the referee union.
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 09:13:27 PM
The NFL is not at fault for refusing to accept the demands of the referee union.
yes it is. I believe the difference is 3 million dollars. there is going to be significantly more lost than that if the games lose popularity due to shitty officiating.
it is the NFL's fault for not running the numbers and keeping their business viable.
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:04:54 PM
It's the fault of the NFL for not coming to terms with the refs. For something that is as important to so many Americans like football, only the best will do, even if that means paying them more than you think they're worth. You can't put a price on fair play.
The NFL is not at fault for refusing to accept the demands of the referee union.
But they are. They should have accepted the demands. What if an airline refused to deal with their pilots? Would you feel comfortable with a scab pilot flying your plane? Give the refs what they want. Quit being so goddamn cheap, Goodell.
Does this look like a catch to you?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpackerchatters.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmd-jennings-golden-tate.jpg&hash=4f448dc0c233948d13eba4f0e01e59fb977c43ad)
They need to write the regular refs a blank check. The integrity of the league is at stake. It is the fault of the NFL for being so cheap and greedy. It's coming back to bite them on the ass.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2012, 09:09:17 PM
I presume these refs officiate football at other levels -- college or high school. Wouldn't this poor performance by them at the pro level call into question their competency to officiate at their normal levels?
Unions aren't so bad, are they, Elkins?
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs.
Bullshit.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 25, 2012, 09:16:05 PM
there is going to be significantly more lost than that if the games lose popularity due to shitty officiating.
it is the NFL's fault for not running the numbers and keeping their business viable.
Bingo. Everyone hates the referee...baseball, basketball, football, *everyone* hates the referee. That's a part of the game. The difference here is that, in the past, the referee had respect, and that's not the case anymore. Never mind what Belichick did, or what happened to the Packers, there are players tweeting "fine me and use the money to pay the regular refs." There is a top-down disrespect for these officials. Players, who have lived a life of discipline and order, are rebelling against any good sense without fear of financial penalty.
I have a hearing loss and read lips and expressions, so I don't know how much of this stuff is seen by others, but I have seen more than one official say "I'm not sure" or "I don't know" to a coach. Some of the head refs genuinely look frightened when they cue the mic to make an announcement. People aren't going to boycott the game, don't be silly, but I really feel there will be more injuries and more games will be screwed up. Betting will be affected, which (make no mistake) has bearing on the league (why do you think they didn't change the outcome of this game?) Basically, the more variables you introduce to the system, the less reliable it becomes. TV and Vegas hate these things. I bet it gets rectified soon.
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
both sides are at fault. No deal forces replacement refs, bad calls and touchceptions.
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs. That play last night was obviously an interception. Roger Goodell needs to be fired and the NFL needs to make a deal with the real refs immediately. The NFL's brand is tarnished, and it's only going to get worse. Remember how badly baseball suffered during the strike year? It still hasn't recovered. The same thing is going to happen to the NFL. I've seen my share of bad calls and last night's call was one of the worst I've ever seen. The Seattle QB is the first player in NFL history to throw a game-winning interception.
It's not the fault of the NFL ... it is the fault of Big Labor, i.e. the trade unions of the refs and the refs themselves.
The owners locked them out. And wanted to cut their pensions.
Who knew trying to cheap out would result in a substandard workforce? Anyone who is anti-union is a moron. If the owners can collude, incorporate or unite and make the demands, so can those employed by them. The owners take risk by putting up capital but that capital is a result of labor's work in all the owners' ventures. The refs and players as labor put their bodies on the line.
Also one of the scab refs wasn't even good enough for the LINGERIE FOOTBALL LEAGUE. How awful is that? The owners are not suffering - they just want to squeeze more profit out of the average fan by cheaping out on ref/player costs and extorting local governments for taxpayer money. If the owners can make the money on others' sweat, isn't it right for others to demand what they are worth in labor?
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:43:44 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:04:54 PM
It's the fault of the NFL for not coming to terms with the refs. For something that is as important to so many Americans like football, only the best will do, even if that means paying them more than you think they're worth. You can't put a price on fair play.
The NFL is not at fault for refusing to accept the demands of the referee union.
But they are. They should have accepted the demands. What if an airline refused to deal with their pilots? Would you feel comfortable with a scab pilot flying your plane? Give the refs what they want. Quit being so goddamn cheap, Goodell.
Bwahawhawhaw !!
"The regular refs, who make an average of $150,000 a year for part-time work, want a raise."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/story/2012-09-25/Seahawks-Packers-refs-NFL/57842268/1
Cry me a river...
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:48:29 PM
Does this look like a catch to you?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpackerchatters.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmd-jennings-golden-tate.jpg&hash=4f448dc0c233948d13eba4f0e01e59fb977c43ad)
They need to write the regular refs a blank check. The integrity of the league is at stake. It is the fault of the NFL for being so cheap and greedy. It's coming back to bite them on the ass.
Yes, it's a catch, and no they don't need a blank check. It's not black and white.
Quote from: 6a on September 25, 2012, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs.
Bullshit.
Watch me. I won't watch another game this year. I'd rather watch "America's Got Talent" or "The Voice" than another NFL game with these horrible refs. I hate reality TV, but at least those guys get fair shots. And I'm far from the only one who is boycotting the NFL. They are going to lose a lot of money over their stubbornness and cheapness.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 25, 2012, 09:16:05 PM
there is going to be significantly more lost than that if the games lose popularity due to shitty officiating.
it is the NFL's fault for not running the numbers and keeping their business viable.
Quote
Bingo. Everyone hates the referee...baseball, basketball, football, *everyone* hates the referee. That's a part of the game. The difference here is that, in the past, the referee had respect, and that's not the case anymore. Never mind what Belichick did, or what happened to the Packers, there are players tweeting "fine me and use the money to pay the regular refs." There is a top-down disrespect for these officials. Players, who have lived a life of discipline and order, are rebelling against any good sense without fear of financial penalty.
I have a hearing loss and read lips and expressions, so I don't know how much of this stuff is seen by others, but I have seen more than one official say "I'm not sure" or "I don't know" to a coach. Some of the head refs genuinely look frightened when they cue the mic to make an announcement. People aren't going to boycott the game, don't be silly, but I really feel there will be more injuries and more games will be screwed up. Betting will be affected, which (make no mistake) has bearing on the league (why do you think they didn't change the outcome of this game?) Basically, the more variables you introduce to the system, the less reliable it becomes. TV and Vegas hate these things. I bet it gets rectified soon.
You're wrong. There are going to be mass boycotts of the NFL this year. They could fix it and create a lot of goodwill by coming to a deal with the refs, but they won't. They are harming not only the sport but the NFL brand. Irreparable damage. They are in danger of losing a generation of football fans. I'll still watch football on Saturday, but on Sunday I'll watch something else.
Quote from: 6a on September 25, 2012, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:48:29 PM
Does this look like a catch to you?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpackerchatters.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmd-jennings-golden-tate.jpg&hash=4f448dc0c233948d13eba4f0e01e59fb977c43ad)
They need to write the regular refs a blank check. The integrity of the league is at stake. It is the fault of the NFL for being so cheap and greedy. It's coming back to bite them on the ass.
Yes, it's a catch, and no they don't need a blank check. It's not black and white.
It was an interception, and it is black and white. There is no such thing as a "sort of a touchdown." The rules are very clear, and the refs fucked up. The NFL lost all of its credibility by standing behind the ruling. No more NFL for me until they hire the real refs again.
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:43:44 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 25, 2012, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:04:54 PM
It's the fault of the NFL for not coming to terms with the refs. For something that is as important to so many Americans like football, only the best will do, even if that means paying them more than you think they're worth. You can't put a price on fair play.
The NFL is not at fault for refusing to accept the demands of the referee union.
But they are. They should have accepted the demands. What if an airline refused to deal with their pilots? Would you feel comfortable with a scab pilot flying your plane? Give the refs what they want. Quit being so goddamn cheap, Goodell.
Bwahawhawhaw !!
"The regular refs, who make an average of $150,000 a year for part-time work, want a raise."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/story/2012-09-25/Seahawks-Packers-refs-NFL/57842268/1
Cry me a river...
You go stand out on a field with 350 pound linemen running at full speed and tell me $150K is too much money. Most of the refs are well under 200 pounds. They put their lives on the line every time they step onto the field.
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: 6a on September 25, 2012, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 09:48:29 PM
Does this look like a catch to you?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpackerchatters.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmd-jennings-golden-tate.jpg&hash=4f448dc0c233948d13eba4f0e01e59fb977c43ad)
They need to write the regular refs a blank check. The integrity of the league is at stake. It is the fault of the NFL for being so cheap and greedy. It's coming back to bite them on the ass.
Yes, it's a catch, and no they don't need a blank check. It's not black and white.
It was an interception, and it is black and white. There is no such thing as a "sort of a touchdown." The rules are very clear, and the refs fucked up. The NFL lost all of its credibility by standing behind the ruling. No more NFL for me until they hire the real refs again.
I meant it was a catch by the Packers, sorry for the confusion.
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: 6a on September 25, 2012, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I'm boycotting the NFL until they get rid of these horrible refs.
Bullshit.
Watch me. I won't watch another game this year. I'd rather watch "America's Got Talent" or "The Voice" than another NFL game with these horrible refs. I hate reality TV, but at least those guys get fair shots. And I'm far from the only one who is boycotting the NFL. They are going to lose a lot of money over their stubbornness and cheapness.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 25, 2012, 09:16:05 PM
there is going to be significantly more lost than that if the games lose popularity due to shitty officiating.
it is the NFL's fault for not running the numbers and keeping their business viable.
Quote
Bingo. Everyone hates the referee...baseball, basketball, football, *everyone* hates the referee. That's a part of the game. The difference here is that, in the past, the referee had respect, and that's not the case anymore. Never mind what Belichick did, or what happened to the Packers, there are players tweeting "fine me and use the money to pay the regular refs." There is a top-down disrespect for these officials. Players, who have lived a life of discipline and order, are rebelling against any good sense without fear of financial penalty.
I have a hearing loss and read lips and expressions, so I don't know how much of this stuff is seen by others, but I have seen more than one official say "I'm not sure" or "I don't know" to a coach. Some of the head refs genuinely look frightened when they cue the mic to make an announcement. People aren't going to boycott the game, don't be silly, but I really feel there will be more injuries and more games will be screwed up. Betting will be affected, which (make no mistake) has bearing on the league (why do you think they didn't change the outcome of this game?) Basically, the more variables you introduce to the system, the less reliable it becomes. TV and Vegas hate these things. I bet it gets rectified soon.
You're wrong. There are going to be mass boycotts of the NFL this year. They could fix it and create a lot of goodwill by coming to a deal with the refs, but they won't. They are harming not only the sport but the NFL brand. Irreparable damage. They are in danger of losing a generation of football fans. I'll still watch football on Saturday, but on Sunday I'll watch something else.
Care to step back, take a breath, re-read what I posted and tell me exactly what it was that was in disagreement with you? If you don't want to bother it was the vehicle for disagreement (I think people will watch, you don't.) On the other points we look to be in agreement. Stand down a bit, son. It's sports.
Do not call me "son." Only one person is allowed to call me that, and that's my dad. He doesn't even call me that, he calls me by my name. And I'm older than you. It's hard to offend me, but calling me "son" is one of the quickest ways to do so. I demand an apology.
What we disagreed on is that you said "bullshit" when I said that I'm boycotting the NFL. I'm not watching any games as long as these scab refs are still being used, whether you believe it or not.
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:23:58 PM
You go stand out on a field with 350 pound linemen running at full speed and tell me $150K is too much money. Most of the refs are well under 200 pounds. They put their lives on the line every time they step onto the field.
Baloney ... these "collisions" don't happen, refs aren't dying on the field.
I couldn't resist to post this one but just imagine if there was a sequel to the movie The Replacements involving also the referees. :-D :banghead: :spin:
I see now there are rumblings about taking a knee for a whole game. While I doubt such a thing would ever happen, it is an amusing thought. At the least, it shows the level of frustration by the players.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2012, 09:09:17 PM
I presume these refs officiate football at other levels -- college or high school. Wouldn't this poor performance by them at the pro level call into question their competency to officiate at their normal levels?
Not necessarily. They're used to a certain style and speed of play. NFL is a totally different breed and the replacements are completely out of their element.
While this is not the ending I would've wanted, anytime the Packers lose is a happy time for me. And I congratulate the Seahawks on their win.
As for the referees, they're doing a horrible job so far. I imagine the game would've easily gone the other way, if the real refs had called it.
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Crap like this..
Quote from: nyratk1 on September 25, 2012, 10:01:29 PMAnyone who is anti-union is a moron.
Anyone who is anti-pooing is a moron.
Quote from: NE2 on September 26, 2012, 01:36:21 PM
Anyone who is anti-pooing is a moron.
Isn't saying that in direct conflict with the statement your signature? :eyebrow: Sounds kinda preachy to me.
Not to worry, sounds like the refs will be back to work this weekend.
Will the NFL lose popularity because of these screwy replacement refs? You bet (pun intended)!
A huge reason why the NFL got so popular is because most everyone is gambling on it. From the sports books in Vegas to the zillions of fantasy football leagues everyone has something at stake. Now, if I regularly bet of NFL games and I had money on the Packers, I would be supremely pissed that I lost my bet because of a major screw-up by the replacement refs. If this were to keep up, I don't think I want to be placing bets on ANY NFL game because you don't know if the replacements are going to screw you. If no one is betting on the games, you will definitely see the NFL's popularity nosedive.
Edit: If the regulars are back this weekend, all I can say is "It's about time!" :clap:
I for one won't be watching anymore NFL games until the pro refs are reinstated. This is the most popular, most profitable professional sport in the entire country and the greedy owners are going to fuck up the entire league over a measly 3 million dollars?! I've had it!
I'm a reasonable guy; I know human error is part of every human endeavor. And I accept that occasionally, a blown call can change the outcome of a game. But there has to be a limit to what I am expected to put up with. And the NFL found my limit with that atrocious Monday Night game.
When the scabs fuck up THREE TIMES on the same call, that is flatly unacceptable. They miss the flagrant offensive pass interference, they rule a 'simultaneous catch' when there clearly wasn't and upheld that ruling on the review. I have no recourse but to cease my viewership of all NFL games and highlights and put my NFL team apparel into storage.
Once again the owners don't care who they screw over as they try and squeeze every drop of profit from the league. 3 bloody million dollars; that's one day's worth of licensing fees for showing game highlights or a couple days of retail sales. How much does the NFL collect from each marquee sponsor every year?
I tell you, man, some really smart company could step forward this week and pony up that pittance for the pro refs and become the savoir of professional football. They'd buy so much outstanding publicity among us fans. Shit, I'd go out and buy two or three of whatever they're selling on the spot!
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2012, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Crap like this..
Quote from: nyratk1 on September 25, 2012, 10:01:29 PMAnyone who is anti-union is a moron.
Also the repeated use of the word "scabs" for the replacement referees.
That word is a union member pejorative for any employees used to temporarily replace employees that are on strike.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2012, 01:51:04 PM
Not to worry, sounds like the refs will be back to work this weekend.
Amazing what 36 solid hours of horrible press via every outlet available can accomplish, no? I'll just be glad to focus on the players again.
Like Henry said, anytime Green Bay loses is happy times for me. Rodgers got sacked eight times in only the first half by Seattle's defense!
Now I'll get to the nitty-gritty about this- the replacement refs really do suck, and I've actually watched more college football this year than NFL. Goodell is once again being a selfish cheapskate who thinks in his own mind he's such a white knight for making wimps out of the game. I'll probably be boycotting NFL games (except Super Bowls) until Goodell is no longer the commissoner.
Speaking of screwjobs, I think New Orleans is being screwed by Goodell and the replacement refs.
Triplemultiplex, I really like your post you put up. I could have not said it better.
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Also the repeated use of the word "NIMBY" for the highway opponents.
That word is a highway proponent pejorative for any prople who oppose the highway.
Quote from: NE2 on September 26, 2012, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Also the repeated use of the word "NIMBY" for the highway opponents.
That word is a highway proponent pejorative for any prople who oppose the highway.
You quoted me and changed my words to a completely different meaning. Did you do that out of dishonesty or did you mistakenly leave my name in the "quote from"?
BTW, I do not use the term "NIMBY".
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 26, 2012, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Also the repeated use of the word "NIMBY" for the highway opponents.
That word is a highway proponent pejorative for any prople who oppose the highway.
You quoted me and changed my words to a completely different meaning. Did you do that out of dishonesty or did you mistakenly leave my name in the "quote from"?
BTW, I do not use the term "NIMBY".
You just used it.
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2012, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Crap like this..
Quote from: nyratk1 on September 25, 2012, 10:01:29 PMAnyone who is anti-union is a moron.
Also the repeated use of the word "scabs" for the replacement referees.
That word is a union member pejorative for any employees used to temporarily replace employees that are on strike.
It has passed into the general lexicon as someone who performs a type of work while the union normally performing it is on strike. I don't view it as political any more. Maybe it was when you were growing up.
Well, we can all quit arguing about the bad officiating, as the NFL and the Referee's Association have reached an agreement. Haleighluia! There is a God!
It's sad that it took such an abortion of a call to bring back the real refs. Goodell needs to be shown the door for waiting this long to make a deal.
Quote from: Steve on September 26, 2012, 11:33:44 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2012, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Crap like this..
Quote from: nyratk1 on September 25, 2012, 10:01:29 PMAnyone who is anti-union is a moron.
Also the repeated use of the word "scabs" for the replacement referees.
That word is a union member pejorative for any employees used to temporarily replace employees that are on strike.
It has passed into the general lexicon as someone who performs a type of work while the union normally performing it is on strike. I don't view it as political any more. Maybe it was when you were growing up.
Wrong. The non-pejorative word is "strikebreaker".
A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab or a blackleg) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 27, 2012, 01:02:18 AM
Well, we can all quit arguing about the bad officiating, as the NFL and the Referee's Association have reached an agreement. Haleighluia! There is a God!
Allegedly.
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 06:30:21 AM
Quote from: Steve on September 26, 2012, 11:33:44 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2012, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Master son on September 25, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
This becoming more a political thread than a sports thread :eyebrow: keep it civil. --ms
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't see any politics, unless you consider the rules of the game political.
Crap like this..
Quote from: nyratk1 on September 25, 2012, 10:01:29 PMAnyone who is anti-union is a moron.
Also the repeated use of the word "scabs" for the replacement referees.
That word is a union member pejorative for any employees used to temporarily replace employees that are on strike.
It has passed into the general lexicon as someone who performs a type of work while the union normally performing it is on strike. I don't view it as political any more. Maybe it was when you were growing up.
Wrong. The non-pejorative word is "strikebreaker".
A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab or a blackleg) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
But this was NOT a 'strike', it was a 'lockout'.
Mike
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over
serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a
pittance in the scheme of things.
This was about
greed - and nothing more. And as a result, the Green Bay Packers lost a game that they should have won.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a pittance in the scheme of things.
$150,000 per year for part-time work as a referee?? Grossly overpaid.
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a pittance in the scheme of things.
$150,000 per year for part-time work as a referee?? Grossly overpaid.
I
vigorously disagree.
Doing officiating of pro football is
hard work, and it requires a lot of training and a lot of education, and a willingness to mingle on the field (with
no pads and
no helmets) with some very big and very fast-moving and very strong men.
And did you (by chance) notice what happened when the NFL used the cheaper guys?
NFL, NFL Referees Association reach eight-year deal -
Lockout to end, regular refs back for tonight's Ravens-Browns game (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-nfl-nfl-referees-association-reach-eight-year-agreement-20120926,0,3092036.story)
N.F.L. Undervalued Competence, Paid in Integrity (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/leading-off-n-f-l-undervalued-competence-paid-in-integrity/)
The NFL owners got flagged (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-nfl-owners-greed-is-destroying-the-game/2012/09/26/5fccd996-0804-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_story.html)
N.F.L. Reaches Labor Deal With Referees (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/sports/football/nfl-and-referees-reach-labor-deal.html)
NFL, refs compromise after debacle in Seattle (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-refs-compromise-after-debacle-in-seattle/2012/09/27/f3399f80-08ad-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_story.html)
Even
the worst daily newspaper in the United States, the late Rev. Sun Myung Moon's
Washington Times (a/k/a
the Moon Monitor) ran this:
Regular refs to work Thursday game after agreement with NFL (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/27/nfl-reaches-tentative-agreement-refs/)
It's also not just about how hard they work - they are in a very very rich workplace (one of the reasons why pro-sportsmen in major sports get silly money) - and as has been seen, being able to make the right call is worth a lot of money to the NFL as people were talking about not watching if the refs make bad ones often.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a pittance in the scheme of things.
$150,000 per year for part-time work as a referee?? Grossly overpaid.
I vigorously disagree.
Doing officiating of pro football is hard work, and it requires a lot of training and a lot of education, and a willingness to mingle on the field (with no pads and no helmets) with some very big and very fast-moving and very strong men.
Much less of those than for a police officer, or for a firefighter, or for a soldier, and they work full-time, and they get paid far less.
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a pittance in the scheme of things.
$150,000 per year for part-time work as a referee?? Grossly overpaid.
I vigorously disagree.
Doing officiating of pro football is hard work, and it requires a lot of training and a lot of education, and a willingness to mingle on the field (with no pads and no helmets) with some very big and very fast-moving and very strong men.
Much less of those than for a police officer, or for a firefighter, or for a soldier, and they work full-time, and they get paid far less.
Much less than what the President of the United States gets paid (when computed on an hourly basis).
Your point is?
Baltimore Sun: NFL officials receive loud cheers in first night back (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-referees-0928-20120927,0,7569932.story)
Washington Post: "˜That kind of chokes you up': Referees cheered at first NFL game following end of lockout (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/cheers-for-men-in-stripes-lockout-ends-as-nfls-regular-refs-return-for-browns-ravens-game/2012/09/27/135af0a0-0905-11e2-9eea-333857f6a7bd_story.html)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 27, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 27, 2012, 11:21:43 AM
Does anyone have that deja vu feeling again, because this was the second year in a row in which a lockout occurred? (last year, it was the players)
The dispute with the players was over serious amounts of money that the NFL team owners have to pay their workers.
By comparison, the amount of money that the NFL pays their game officials is a pittance in the scheme of things.
$150,000 per year for part-time work as a referee?? Grossly overpaid.
I vigorously disagree.
Doing officiating of pro football is hard work, and it requires a lot of training and a lot of education, and a willingness to mingle on the field (with no pads and no helmets) with some very big and very fast-moving and very strong men.
Much less of those than for a police officer, or for a firefighter, or for a soldier, and they work full-time, and they get paid far less.
Much less than what the President of the United States gets paid (when computed on an hourly basis).
Your point is?
What logical business compensation model would not pay the President far more than a referee, a police officer, a firefighter, or a soldier?
why are we using the president as an example? if we're looking for executives who are given colossal compensation packages (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly), look to the business world.
I can't even tell who is being overpaid according to this back-and-forth argument.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 28, 2012, 12:55:59 PM
if we're looking for executives who are given colossal compensation packages (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly), look to the business world.
Better yet, look to the NFL and what they pay Roger Goodell (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34822324):
Quote
Roger Goodell recently received a five-year contract extension from the NFL, and according to a report, his salary will "double" up to $20 million annually by the end of the deal .... Goodell received $9.89 million in base salary according to federal tax returns filed by the NFL last year.
Position his $10 million against the $3 million for the refs ...
Quote from: Grzrd on September 28, 2012, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 28, 2012, 12:55:59 PM
if we're looking for executives who are given colossal compensation packages (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly), look to the business world.
Better yet, look to the NFL and what they pay Roger Goodell (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34822324):
Quote
Roger Goodell recently received a five-year contract extension from the NFL, and according to a report, his salary will "double" up to $20 million annually by the end of the deal .... Goodell received $9.89 million in base salary according to federal tax returns filed by the NFL last year.
Position his $10 million against the $3 million for the refs ...
And I think it safe to say that the refs matter a lot more to the pro game than Goodell does.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2012, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on September 28, 2012, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 28, 2012, 12:55:59 PM
if we're looking for executives who are given colossal compensation packages (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly), look to the business world.
Better yet, look to the NFL and what they pay Roger Goodell (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34822324):
Quote
Roger Goodell recently received a five-year contract extension from the NFL, and according to a report, his salary will "double" up to $20 million annually by the end of the deal .... Goodell received $9.89 million in base salary according to federal tax returns filed by the NFL last year.
Position his $10 million against the $3 million for the refs ...
And I think it safe to say that the refs matter a lot more to the pro game than Goodell does.
Which of the two have had the greater affect on the game?
People should be paid according to the value of their work. By that model, professional athletes bring millions to the team in terms of paying fans and millions to advertising companies in terms of their star power attracting buyers. So that's fair. On the other hand, I wouldn't want anyone in our government being paid that much. In fact, I think they're paid FAR too much now. You should get a salary equal to the US median when you're in public office. No matter what position you hold, from representative #435 to President, all the same salary. The idea is, you're not doing this for money, you're doing this to serve the public. Maybe that would go a little way to help reform Washington. Also, no pensions. You can contribute to a 401(k), and take out your own money at the end, but that's it.
150 grand a year for a ref is nothing in America's most popular and profitable professional sport. What's the profit margin on those $tadium conce$$ions? There's a reason why some TV documentaries are obligated to pixelize team logos that happen to appear in archival footage. The first 3 weeks of this season have proved that these pro refs are worth every penny.
If you think the fans in Baltimore were grateful for the pro refs to be back, giving them an nice standing ovation, catch the start of the Saints - Packers game Sunday if you can. ;) Those guys will drink for free in any bar in Wisconsin this weekend. :-P
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 28, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
If you think the fans in Baltimore were grateful for the pro refs to be back, giving them an nice standing ovation, catch the start of the Saints - Packers game Sunday if you can. ;) Those guys will drink for free in any bar in Wisconsin this weekend. :-P
The fans in Baltimore were very happy to have the real refs back. So were at least some of the Ravens players, including, in particular, Ray Lewis, who was shown on the broadcast hugging Gene Steratore (even though Gene lives in Southwest Pennsylvania, not exactly home to that many fans of the Baltimore NFL team).
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 28, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
150 grand a year for a ref is nothing in America's most popular and profitable professional sport. What's the profit margin on those $tadium conce$$ions? There's a reason why some TV documentaries are obligated to pixelize team logos that happen to appear in archival footage. The first 3 weeks of this season have proved that these pro refs are worth every penny.
If you think the fans in Baltimore were grateful for the pro refs to be back, giving them an nice standing ovation, catch the start of the Saints - Packers game Sunday if you can. ;) Those guys will drink for free in any bar in Wisconsin this weekend. :-P
It's gonna be a raucous one, to be sure! I'll be at it in our little family heirlooms and with the returning 'real' refs and the *SAINTS* (remember the bounty thing, including at the Week 1 season opener last year?), it'll be one not to miss!
(deciding not to use any of the smilies here just to avoid cluttering the posting)
Mike
Finally, the Saints won a game this year! Brees beat Unitas' record by throwing a touchdown for the 48th consecutive game as the Saints beat the Chargers (@ Saints) 31-24! :colorful: