So I'm starting to piece together trip to Ireland and the UK of about a fortnight's duration. For the most part I'll be motoring around, taking in the usual sights and scenes–castles, pubs, countryside, the odd tourist trap–and I welcome any tips and suggestions from the local gentry!
First off, I know the topic of an American learning to drive on the left has been touched on elsewhere in this board, but suffice to say, there is that for me to think about. I'll have a manual transmission, which I'm already familiar with in my opposite hand.
The first week looks to be a pre-packaged itinerary around Ireland, covering Dublin, two nights each in Killarney and Galway, then back to the capital. But only the hotel and care hire are included, so I'll have a lot of freedom to explore in and between those places. The base stations are on the touristy side, I know, but I do also like to delve into the off-track, authentic, perhaps even mundane experience of local life and culture. Ideas?
The second week will focus on Wales, and southern and southwestern (mostly) England. This will hopefully be less structured than the first week, but how feasible nowadays is the traditional idea of free-style motor touring, where there isn't a rigid itinerary and lodgings are found on the fly or by happenstance? Is it a safe bet to pick up rooms at the various inns, B&Bs and guest houses, even in June-July? Or do we need to have a more solid game plan?
I am also intent on fitting in the Isle of Man, a place that fascinates me somehow. But it's a bit tricky to fit into the itinerary. One thought was to ferry from Dublin to Holyhead, picking up a car and driving through Wales, toward Devon and Cornwall, over to London of course, then up to Liverpool, and returning via the Isle of Man to Dublin for the return flight. But car hires out of Holyhead are wildly expensive compared to Liverpool, so we may have to pick up the car there, then go south to Wales, perhaps skipping Anglesey. Is this an ambitious amount to cover in one week, and is there a more efficient way I could make the circuit? I don't have the scale of the country in my head yet; I do know it's not all that big, but also that it takes longer to get from place to place than in the U.S., on average, especially when dallying through the countryside.
It occurs to me that traveling from London to Liverpool by rail might be beneficial, since I suspect the intervening countryside there is less conducive to dallying, or we may have tired of it by then. Google tells me it's over an hour faster, and I'm assuming it's a frequently-served route.
Any issues visiting the Isle of Man as a non-component of the UK? Am I free to travel there assuming I've cleared into the UK and Ireland, or do I need to treat it as a third sovereign entity, since I'm not myself a British subject (though I'm often told I look like one)? Any general advice on visiting there? I imagine it's strikingly isolated, yet surprisingly sophisticated, and always startlingly beautiful. And I'm intrigued by its lost Manx tongue, its tailless cats, and the weird three-legged, no-bodied device emblazoned on its flag. It sounds like just my kind of place.
Thanks for your advice on my many questions, and I'm sure I'll think of more!
I've dabbled with the idea of visiting the UK and Ireland myself at some point. On the roads side of things, a good place to do some research would be the at the SABRE Roads page at http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/ (http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/).
Answering a couple of questions quickly
Quote from: empirestate on October 18, 2012, 12:30:57 AMIs this an ambitious amount to cover in one week, and is there a more efficient way I could make the circuit?
It's possible - depending on what time of day you pick up the car, you'd do a night in Mid Wales, another in Cardiff/Bristol/Bath, one in Exmoor, one somewhere like Salisbury or Southampton, one in London, then another in Douglas.
However, that's going to be a trek - you will see lots, but mostly road, you will see a spectrum, but absorb little. I'd ditch the West Country and probably do the Isle of Man first, leaving you with a London-Dublin flight, rather than a trek up to Liverpool and across.
This makes the second week:
day 1 - ferry to Douglas, explore the Isle of Man, stay the night
day 2 - more exploring Isle of Man if needed, ferry to Liverpool, get car, drive to somewhere like Chester or NE Wales
day 3 - drive in Mid Wales, stay somewhere like Aberystwyth, Newtown, Buith Wells, etc
day 4 - drive to South Wales, having explored the Brecon Beacons and the Valleys, stay in Cardiff
day 5 - drive to somewhere like Heathrow, leave car and train to London. A few stops en route, taking a fairly roundabout route.
rest of time - while away rest of time until flying to Dublin in London.
QuoteI don't have the scale of the country in my head yet; I do know it's not all that big, but also that it takes longer to get from place to place than in the U.S., on average, especially when dallying through the countryside.
I'm not sure it does take longer, just that we have a lower tolerance for what is a long way. Google's times are roughly right.
QuoteIt occurs to me that traveling from London to Liverpool by rail might be beneficial, since I suspect the intervening countryside there is less conducive to dallying, or we may have tired of it by then. Google tells me it's over an hour faster, and I'm assuming it's a frequently-served route.
Direct trains are one an hour.
QuoteAny issues visiting the Isle of Man as a non-component of the UK? Am I free to travel there assuming I've cleared into the UK and Ireland, or do I need to treat it as a third sovereign entity, since I'm not myself a British subject (though I'm often told I look like one)?
I'm not a British subject either - we've used the term citizen for years. Isle of Man is in the Common Travel Area - you'll probably need ID and a place to stay, or some reason why you aren't going to Dublin direct.
QuoteAny general advice on visiting there? I imagine it's strikingly isolated, yet surprisingly sophisticated, and always startlingly beautiful. And I'm intrigued by its lost Manx tongue, its tailless cats, and the weird three-legged, no-bodied device emblazoned on its flag. It sounds like just my kind of place.
Like other Crown Dependencies it's basically a Banker's paradise (tax haven). No maximum speed limit there, and pretty mountains, which makes up for it being nowhere near as sunny as the Channel Islands.
Typically foot passenger rates aren't much less than car rates (3 of us went to the Isle of Wight as foot passengers, with 33% discount (buying it as rail tickets with railcard):, we paid £11 each, rather than £32 for a car with four passengers) - might be worth just keeping the car for the second week - you could drive around the Isle of Man too. That said, the end at London option is perhaps better, you can use the train, bus and walking on the Isle of Man to see the sites and bingo.
Quote from: english si on October 18, 2012, 09:47:46 AM
It's possible - depending on what time of day you pick up the car, you'd do a night in Mid Wales, another in Cardiff/Bristol/Bath, one in Exmoor, one somewhere like Salisbury or Southampton, one in London, then another in Douglas.
However, that's going to be a trek - you will see lots, but mostly road, you will see a spectrum, but absorb little. I'd ditch the West Country and probably do the Isle of Man first, leaving you with a London-Dublin flight, rather than a trek up to Liverpool and across.
IOM first is likely better, especially since we'd probably have to go to Liverpool rather than Holyhead anyhow for car hire purposes.
Any reason for skipping the west country, other than that it's probably deceptively far to get to? I've heard it's among the more beautiful areas to drive through, but perhaps I'd have more than enough of that from Wales and IOM?
Quote from: english si on October 18, 2012, 09:47:46 AM
I'm not a British subject either - we've used the term citizen for years.
Heh, yes I'm sure. :) My slightly tongue-in-cheek usage aside, however, isn't/wasn't there some distinction between the terms "subject" and "citizen" (and other terms of nationality), depending on whether you were from the UK proper, its dependencies, or the Commonwealth? Not to drift off-topic; I just recall that British citizenship has somewhat more layers than American.
Quote from: english si on October 18, 2012, 09:47:46 AM
Typically foot passenger rates aren't much less than car rates (3 of us went to the Isle of Wight as foot passengers, with 33% discount (buying it as rail tickets with railcard):, we paid £11 each, rather than £32 for a car with four passengers) - might be worth just keeping the car for the second week - you could drive around the Isle of Man too. That said, the end at London option is perhaps better, you can use the train, bus and walking on the Isle of Man to see the sites and bingo.
I can't keep the car for both weeks, can I? It's my understanding that Irish car rentals can't be taken on the car ferries, and/or out of the country to the UK, except to Northern Ireland. Is there a means by which I can in fact do that? Another curiosity is that there seems to be no foot traffic permitted on the Dublin-Liverpool direct ferry, only cars, and if we can't take our car...well, it's another reason to go via IOM, anyhow!
We could certainly do our return flight from London instead of Dublin, but there would be a surcharge since it's a packaged itinerary. It will just come down to whether that surcharge is less than the cost of trains, ferries, and/or a separate flight back to Dublin.
Appreciate the tips!
Quote from: empirestate on October 18, 2012, 11:26:55 AMAny reason for skipping the west country, other than that it's probably deceptively far to get to? I've heard it's among the more beautiful areas to drive through, but perhaps I'd have more than enough of that from Wales and IOM?
Indeed, you will have had more than enough scenery. There is also a time issue - you can either drive for most of each day, or you can actually visit places between your overnight stops (and you'd barely be visiting them). By having two nights in Wales, you have time to actually go to Anglesey (flat, but there's Llanfair PG and Menai Bridge, plus the A55 along the coast is a cool road to drive) and Snowdonia, rather than simply driving point to point. And London is always always worth more than a quick stop. By having an overnight stop on the Isle of Man, you can actually see the island.
QuoteHeh, yes I'm sure. :) My slightly tongue-in-cheek usage aside, however, isn't/wasn't there some distinction between the terms "subject" and "citizen" (and other terms of nationality), depending on whether you were from the UK proper, its dependencies, or the Commonwealth? Not to drift off-topic; I just recall that British citizenship has somewhat more layers than American.
I think 'subject' applies to Irish people born before 1922, Indians before 1947, etc. With the Irish it's irrelevant (Irish passport is as good, if not better than at British one, EU and Common Travel Area mean no lose of rights living in the UK, not RoI), but certainly older Jamaicans could come over as British subjects and get a certain level of rights.
QuoteI can't keep the car for both weeks, can I? It's my understanding that Irish car rentals can't be taken on the car ferries, and/or out of the country to the UK, except to Northern Ireland. Is there a means by which I can in fact do that?
You've researched this more than I.
QuoteWe could certainly do our return flight from London instead of Dublin, but there would be a surcharge since it's a packaged itinerary. It will just come down to whether that surcharge is less than the cost of trains, ferries, and/or a separate flight back to Dublin.
There's some options then. You do have to think about the basically moving a rental car to London issue, but that shouldn't cost a lot.
OK, thinking about this some more:
Dublin road things to look at - Port Tunnel, crazy junctions on M50 - these were simply grade separated roundabouts, now full free-flow junctions in roughly the same amount of space. Red Cow (N7) is very tight.
Dublin tourist things - Guinness factory, obviously, and other stuff that guide books would have.
If it's summer, the Ring of Kerry is an endless procession of cars - better off not doing it - SABRE can help give suggestions, but the N71 would be better, and the N59 is similar, but more remote.
Banbridge in NI has the worlds oldest purpose-built GSJ (A26/B10).
Isle of Man activities - take tramway (summer only), electric railway and Snaefell railway to top of Snaefell - can see England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland if clear.
Douglas - Liverpool - Aberystwyth (indicative route (http://goo.gl/maps/fiFZk)): Ferry to Liverpool, couple of hours in their touristy areas, pick up car, drive along North Wales coast to Llanfair PG, lunch on Anglesey, across the Menai Bridge, down to Beddgelert, across to Bala, down to Aber.
Aberystwyth - Cardiff (indicative route (http://goo.gl/maps/nw5Yu)): ask on SABRE for good driving routes in the Valleys.
Cardiff - Taunton area ( indicative route (http://goo.gl/maps/w0kn4)): Can't remember what Severn Bridge is nicer to look at, but go to Bath, enjoy tourist trap, head along A39, go through Exmoor, enjoy scenery, then south on minor roads to somewhere near Taunton.
Taunton area - Poole-Portsmouth area (Indicative route (http://goo.gl/maps/QVkFf)): head down to, and along the south coast. Have a look at various coastal features (Chesil Beach, Lulworth Cove, Old Harry Rocks.
stuff to do in Poole-Portsmouth area:
Poole: Pottery Factory, Brownsea Island
Southampton: Old Walls, Sea City Museum, Mayflower and Titanic stuff
Portsmouth: Spinnaker Tower, hovercraft to Isle of Wight (railway with old tube trains, general 1950s feel), Historic Dockyard (full of famous oldboats we used to fight the French/Spanish)
Solent area - London (Indicative route (http://goo.gl/maps/Ym8l4)): drive around New Forest (with stop at pony planet Lyndhurst, visit Salisbury (and Cathedral) and Stonehenge - try and get a good bit of A303 near Stonehenge - this is possibly the oldest road in the world. Oh, and it sucks as a major trunk route. Head to Swindon via Devizes (a nice town from what I gather), behold the Magic Roundabout, then take the M4 to London, dropping off your car at Heathrow or in Central London.
London: always stuff to do. Walk about on the surface when in Central London, rather than taking the tube.
Quote from: english si on October 19, 2012, 08:32:58 PM
Banbridge in NI has the worlds oldest purpose-built GSJ (A26/B10).
neato! when was it built? google is not being helpful...
Oh, I doubt that without significantly more backup. (For those who don't have the mad search skillz I do, GSJ is British roadgeek slang for interchange.)
Quote from: NE2 on October 19, 2012, 09:38:46 PM
Oh, I doubt that without significantly more backup. (For those who don't have the mad search skillz I do, GSJ is British roadgeek slang for interchange.)
Grade-
separated
junction?
Banbridge District Council Site (http://www.banbridge.com/template1.asp?parent=227&parent2=329&pid=372&area=2) says it was built in 1834. Sure the underpass was created for through traffic to skip the hill, rather than directly about them speeding under the intersection for traffic flow reasons, but it's a diamond created for ease of travel on the mainline.
Worth detouring for if heading to Belfast.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2012, 10:18:32 AMGrade-separated junction?
Yep!
---
Empirestate: you can take my itinerary or leave it - I'm not that fussed - but 4h30 on google is roughly what you want to cover in the car each day - in part because you are doing it for several days, in part because we're so much denser and there's more to stop at and visit, in part because much of that driving will be on narrow twisty roads due to the sort of thing you want to do.
I can think of one signage note - road signs, including the red-circle speed limit signs, are in metric (meters, km/h, etc) in the Republic of Ireland and Olde Englische units (miles, MPH, yards, etc) in the UK, including Northern Ireland. There are also few, if any, signs posted at the Ireland/Northern Ireland border and some roads snake across the line seemingly at random. Only subtle changes in road signage and striping patterns will clue you in into having crossed it.
Ireland has been busy building an impressive motorway network over the past couple of decades, with most routes radiating outwards from Dublin, too.
Also, if I were to do both countries, I'd do my darndest to take in both an Irish hurling match as well as an BPL match. The last month or so of the Premiere League's previous season, especially the final weekend, was simply incredible!
Mike
Quote from: english si on October 20, 2012, 10:27:25 AM
Banbridge District Council Site (http://www.banbridge.com/template1.asp?parent=227&parent2=329&pid=372&area=2) says it was built in 1834. Sure the underpass was created for through traffic to skip the hill, rather than directly about them speeding under the intersection for traffic flow reasons, but it's a diamond created for ease of travel on the mainline.
That would predate the overpasses built in Central Park by a good deal.
Oh hmm. For some reason I was looking at the one on the bypass to the southeast.
What about where a road goes under a canal and its towpath?
Or over - ok, add 'between two roads' to the claim...
Mike - what's the BPL? I assume you mean the English Premier League (Mens Football). Given the OP's timeframe, it will be hard to get to a match and take up a massive amount of his time. He'd be better off watching some village cricket that he may stumble across on some village green on a Saturday/Sunday afternoon, for a more authentic taste of the rural areas he's focussing his trip on.
Quote from: mgk920 on October 20, 2012, 11:24:41 AMOnly subtle changes in road signage and striping patterns will clue you in into having crossed it.
While the OP will find it hard to cover the border area much, if at all, it's not that bad - the only main (ie A/N/R) road that keeps on crossing has County signs up, and most of the border points have signs like this (http://goo.gl/maps/sTBrD) near them when entering the Republic, and this (http://goo.gl/maps/RtPIb)when entering the north.
Quote from: english si on October 20, 2012, 07:01:46 PM
Or over - ok, add 'between two roads' to the claim...
A towpath is a road - but it's certainly a different situation than between two roads and only two roads. Certainly an interesting feature, whether or not it's the oldest.
Quote from: english si on October 20, 2012, 07:01:46 PM
Mike - what's the BPL? I assume you mean the English Premier League (Mens Football). Given the OP's timeframe, it will be hard to get to a match and take up a massive amount of his time. He'd be better off watching some village cricket that he may stumble across on some village green on a Saturday/Sunday afternoon, for a more authentic taste of the rural areas he's focussing his trip on.
Barclays Premier League. You'll see that acronym along with EPL occasionally on American soccer forums.
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 08:05:52 AM
acronym
Initialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism).
Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2012, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 08:05:52 AM
acronym
Initialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acronym
acronym : a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term;
also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters : initialism Initialisms are a type of acronym.
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 12:49:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2012, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 08:05:52 AM
acronym
Initialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acronym
acronym : a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters : initialism
Initialisms are a type of acronym.
This is a recent addition to the definition, due to people's ignorance on the existance of the term
initialism. Similarly, Merriam—Webster gives the plural noun
phenomena (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phenomena) a 'nonstandard' definition as the singular
phenomenon–even describing how this incorrect use is centuries old. I'll still correct someone, though, when they incorrectly use the word
phenomena as a singular noun–whether or not it's in the dictionary that way. Language evolves, and ignorance often makes wrong use become common use (and therefore dictionary definitions), but I shall still endeavor to fight ignorance and the misuse of words.
More interestingly, the Merriam—Webster link you provided gives a 'Learn more' link to the Encyclopædia Brittanica–which in turn states the following:
Quote from: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/616/abbreviation#ref189452
The combination of the first syllables or letters of component words within phrases or within names having more than one word is common and often produces acronyms, which are pronounced as words and which often cease to be considered abbreviations. An example of this type of abbreviation is the word flak (from German Fliegerabwehrkanone, "antiaircraft cannon" ). Such combinations are especially common in the U.S. military, which has provided NORAD for "North American Aerospace Defense Command." An example from the Soviet era is Narkomvneshtorg for "Narodny Komissariat Vneshney Torgovli" (Russian: "People's Commissariate of Foreign Trade" ). Other popular acronyms are the well-known radar ("radio detecting and ranging" ) and snafu ("situation normal, all fouled up" ).
Acronyms are to be distinguished from initialisms such as U.S.A. and NCAA, which are spoken by reciting their letters.
Basically, I don't consider the Merriam—Webster dictionary to be the ulimate authority on what is 'good' and 'bad' English; I think there's more to 'good' English than just common-use conventions. After all, Merriam—Webster says a
freeway is....
Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freeway2: a highway without toll fees
....and we all know
that's not right. ;-)
QuoteTOPIC
Now that I've completely derailed this thread..... I'm sorry.
I went through acronym, abbreviation, and initialism recently on a work assignment. There's no clean cut answer anymore; they've all been muddled together. My general rule, which is apparently now old-fashioned, is that acronyms are pronounceable, and abbreviations are all-encompassing. I never have used the word "initialism" in my life and have no plans to, and there's no situation where "abbreviation" wouldn't suffice. (Yes, abbreviations can be parts of words instead of initial letters, but there are very few cases where there would be ambiguity.)
Guys, this isn't a presidential debate; let's stay on topic! ;-)
Thanks again for the wealth of suggestions for sights, itineraries, tips and so forth. I'll be exploring all the "avenues" as we plan our trip, and it's not until June, so keep 'em coming!
Many years ago I drove the motorway all the way to Glasgow and took two days to drive back south on the A78 and A77 along the Irish Sea coast. Amazing trip.
Looking at the map, it looks like there is a spot that would be excellent for a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. Here it is: https://maps.google.com/?ll=55.222757,-5.906525&spn=0.400267,1.234589&t=h&z=10 Has there ever been discussion?
A bridge there gets laughed at within about 3 seconds - you are 100+ miles away from the A82, let alone anywhere of importance (I guess you could bridge a lot of sea lochs) and in a pretty and remote part of Northern Ireland.
Much more likely, though still on a par with a Delaware Bay or Long Island Sound crossing (though likely longer) is a crossing between near Stranraer and either the Antrim coast near Larne, or the Down coast near Bangor. Stranraer, while remote, is much more accessible - from England as well and the Irish side is by Belfast Lough, so a useful place.
I'd imagine, however, that it would be a cross between something Norwegian and the Channel Tunnel - rail only with shuttle trains and very deep (as the North Channel itself is) - it's half the length of the Chunnel, so maybe road traffic would use it, but I can't imagine traffic ever being that heavy.
Maybe if NI decides to unite with Scotland, rather than England after the Union dissolves with Scottish secession - but only then with a ton of Irish, English and EU money and political will power.
Anyway, back on topic...
kphoger,
You're clearly way more passionate about grammar than I am :) I tend to lean more toward descriptivist grammar than prescriptivist, but I'll yield to your greater enthusiasm.
As to the topic at hand, one word of advice I have as an American touring in the UK is to not avoid the touristy sites just because they're popular with other foreign tourists. Intend to be like you in that i try to avoid overly touristy trips. That said, one of the coolest historical sites we've been to anywhere was the Tower of London, even though it was the textbook definition of a tourist trap. The same goes for the British Museum. Yes, they're crawling with obnoxious American, Canadian, and French tourists but that's because they're worth seeing.
Also, if you're into historical sites, I'd highly recommend stopping by the Roman Baths in Bath, west of London on the M4 almost to Wales. As an American who is used to considering 150 year old Civil War sites as historic, seeing actual functioning Roman construction was mind blowing. And Stonehenge is nearby, although its a but of a letdown since they roped the whole thing off. You can get pictures just as good for free while driving by on the A303. Check our nearby Avesbury instead. It's also a cool stone circle but is less crowded and you can actually walk among the stones.
I was really let down by Stonehenge. I'm glad I saw it since I was in the area on a weekend trip to the UK a few years back, but it was very underwhelming.
The Magic Roundabout earlier the same afternoon was a lot more interesting to me.
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 10:04:51 PM
Intend to be like you in that i try to avoid overly touristy trips. That said, one of the coolest historical sites we've been to anywhere was the Tower of London, even though it was the textbook definition of a tourist trap.
I disagree that it's a tourist trap. The "trap" part means that the place is not really interesting or worth seeing, but it's been hyped everywhere so that lots of people see it anyway.
Quote from: realjd on October 23, 2012, 10:04:51 PM
As to the topic at hand, one word of advice I have as an American touring in the UK is to not avoid the touristy sites just because they're popular with other foreign tourists.
Important point, and well taken. I do have every intention of going to Stonehenge, the Tower of London, and probably a lot of castles as well. I certainly don't avoid seeing famous sights just because they're mainstream; after all, I'd certainly visit the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building and all the rest of it, were I a first-time visitor to NYC. But I do make a distinction between important sights and true tourist traps–those that have no redeeming quality other than to occupy tourists by selling gimcracks, quasi-authentic cuisine, and shallow summaries of local culture and history. I don't get the feeling there are a whole lot of those in the British Isles, but if I spot any I'll try to avoid them.
But I'm a fairly equal-opportunity tourist, because in addition to the important and well-known sights, I'm also just as interested to go around a place and just kind of live life in it for a while, buying sundries at local emporia, getting a bite to eat at an ordinary restaurant, and just seeing the minor (or major) differences between that country and my own. That's one reason I'm interested in that area, because there isn't so much of a language or culture barrier that we can't reasonably get by without having to be unreasonably looked after. Sometimes it's just as enlightening to pass along a country road or a city street and see what goes on on an average Tuesday. I've got to imagine there'll be good opportunity for that sort of thing in some place like central Wales.
Stonehenge is a bit of a tourist trap (note - the A344 is being stopped up at the A303 end in March and I'm unsure when it's closed for good and you have to do a walk). Avebury is better, from what I hear - not that you can't do both...
Land's End is a tourist trap - don't bother! Llanfair PG probably is as well (though a cheaper and nicer one) and if you go visit Beaumaris/Menai Bridge, then who cares. Ironbridge (south of Telford) is nice, but fairly tourist trappy (though unlike Land's End in an untacky way) as you have to make money from it somehow. Ditto Cheddar Caves/Gorge. Other than Land's End the only majorly tourist trappy place I've been to in the UK is Madam Tussauds - don't bother: a long queue and a lot of money for a bunch of faked photo ops - there's better places for the real London.
There's a tea shop in Beddgellert that does a cracking 'Welsh Cream Tea' (Bara Brith and Welsh Cake as well as a Scone with jam and cream). I'm sure Bala, or Dolgellau, or wherever also have decent places to have tea.
I've come up with this walking route (http://goo.gl/maps/pws81) to visit tourist sites and get a feel of London. It is rather long (8.7 miles), but you can remove some of the kinks (eg, miss out the London Eye, don't visit Southwark at all, skip Whitehall and the Mall). I'd add a different route between the Tower and the London Bridge area - DLR to Greenwich (will need to change at Shadwell), southeastern train back - then again, it's little more than a connect the dots sort of thing, so can easily be adapted. I'd highly recommend the following things:
- Tower of London (duh)
- London Eye
- the area bounded by Piccadilly Circus, Covent Garden, Buckingham Palace and Parliament Square
- riding the DLR from Tower/Bank through the Canary Wharf area
- walking north across the Millenium bridge
- walking through The City (preferably around lunchtime)
- a curry - preferably from a street stall in Brick Lane
- Hyde Park Corner's monuments
- British Museum
- Greenwich
If you have two days, do the West End/Westminster stuff on one day, and the other stuff on another day - other than DLR and Greenwich, everything from start to finish should be on foot.
Also, I highly recommend the Barclay's Cycle Hire to get around London in addition to walking and taking the tube. It's an inexpensive and quick way to get around, and there are plenty of back roads so you can usually avoid having to ride in busy traffic.
If you're into craft beer at all, I can recommend a few pubs in London that have a significantly better selection than a typical pub and are worth a visit.
Quote from: realjd on October 24, 2012, 10:05:14 AM
If you're into craft beer at all, I can recommend a few pubs in London that have a significantly better selection than a typical pub and are worth a visit.
Go on...
Quote from: realjd on October 24, 2012, 10:05:14 AMAlso, I highly recommend the Barclay's Cycle Hire to get around London in addition to walking and taking the tube.
That's true, but I didn't think you could hire it easily if not a British resident.
You'll find that most pubs (but not bars) sell real (cask) ale these days, even if just one or two (though obvious some sell a lot more, like the ones that realjd is talking about, though typically they tend to be bottled) - especially in rural areas where the population is more middle class. The Wetherspoons chain will always have three or four in their pubs (and more if there's an ale festival at that time). You'll also have proper cider on tap in the West Country. Plus there's the bottled stuff - which you can also get in many grocery shops (most if you discount small ones - a large supermarket will have lots of choice, especially if you include the imported ones).
In Ireland you might get lucky and get a choice that's more than Guinness or swill (either of the mass-produced lager, or the John Smiths/Tetleys, variety) - not that Guinness is bad, but local stuff makes a change. Magners/Bulmers is like Guinness (though cider) - mass produced but actually drinkable.
Given you will be driving a lot, soft drinks need to be discussed - there's nothing wrong with hot tea on a hot day, but hot coffee is a bit of a faux pas. Coffee shops will sell stuff similar to those in America (including cold beverages). Our fizzy drink choice is a lot less than in the states, though we have some of our own things - Irn-Bru (Scotland's favourite soft drink), Dandelion and Burdock (similar to root beer), Elderflower and various fruity things - though these tend to only be available in shops. We don't really do corn syrup, so our drinks taste better (other than Mountain Dew which is an energy drink with some large changes in recipe while still trying to imitate the original).
Non-carbonated soft drinks are perhaps more plentiful than the US - you've got your fruit juices and bottled water and there's squash (and the similar barley water), which you get in the supermarket in concentrate form (so dilute to drink). Squash (or plain water) will be the best thing for hydrating you while driving or walking somewhere remote. We don't really do ice, at least not to the extent America does it - you will get four or five cubes in a drink, unless it's an ice-based one or an American fast-food restaurant (and even then). You can buy ice in the supermarket, you probably won't find a dispenser in a hotel, though you can always ask if you can have some.
---
On to food - if the place has a variety of drinks, the food should be good to. Clearly breakfast is traditionally where the Brits excel, but we do food now: the French are even starting to say we do it better than them :O. Fish and chips by the seaside for lunch, the cakes with afternoon tea are overlooked excellent traditional British foods. I imagine that Ireland and North Wales would do good lamb, with Ireland also having good beef. Seafood would be good if near the coast. If there's a good choice of beers, the food will not be bad. Curry is our national dish, with some (Balti, Tikka Masala, etc) being specifically British curries. We've carried on this fusion to other things - in the cities and southern England you'd have several things on the menu that's sort of semi-foreign - especially in summer. London is the most cosmopolitan city in the world, so like NYC, authentic native cuisine from all over the world is available. In Wales you have to try Welsh Cakes and Bara Brith. In the West Country, you have to have their scones and ice cream.
June is a bad time of year for authentic British savoury food that's pretty unique - I guess there's Cornish pasties (or various other baked slices). We do more autumnal/wintery foods - savoury pies and puddings, hotpots and roasts. Desert-wise there's lots of -and custard dishes (spotted dick, treacle tart, rice pudding, crumble) that's for cold weather, but we do warm weather deserts too - mostly strawberry/raspberry based (Eton Mess, meringues, tarts).
Snack/Treat-wise, Cadbury's chocolate (and other brands) is far superior than the cocoa butter-rich stuff that you call chocolate but is really just brown lard (I did have some imitation Cadbury's once in America, it was better than Herseys but not as good as the real thing). Crisps (chips) come in far more varieties over here. Chocolate bars are something else we snack on, but Americans don't really (these are different to various candies - they are rather more biscuit) - any corner shop (or supermarket) will have a variety of these - clubs or penguins or something. Ditto biscuits. Also do various sweets that are much much more common over here - again, check the supermarket aisle...
Quote from: empirestate on October 24, 2012, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: realjd on October 24, 2012, 10:05:14 AM
If you're into craft beer at all, I can recommend a few pubs in London that have a significantly better selection than a typical pub and are worth a visit.
Go on...
The Craft Beer Company on Leather Lane, near the Chancery Lane tube station on the Central line:
http://thecraftbeerco.com/location/clerkenwell-london/
It's currently ranked as the 19th best beer bar in the world on RateBeer. They have a large amount of excellent craft beer in casks, kegs, and bottles, most of it from England.
BrewDog Camden, near the Camden Town tube station on the Northern line:
http://www.brewdog.com/bars/camden
This pub is owned by BrewDog, a brewery from Scotland that makes American-style craft beer. They have all of their own products (including a 41% ABV IPA) plus a surprisingly large selection of craft beer from American breweries, including regional beers that aren't easy to find in the states.
Like english si said, cask ale ("real ale") is plentiful at pubs, at least in London. Fullers London Pride seems universally available and is excellent, and most of the pubs we went to had a few ales from smaller breweries also. They all tend to be similar in style though so they're not as adventurous as beer from small breweries in the states. You won't find a microbrewed American-style IPA or imperial stout or the like at most pubs. Both pubs I mentioned above though do have plenty of English beers in more adventurous styles.
Quote from: english si on October 24, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: realjd on October 24, 2012, 10:05:14 AMAlso, I highly recommend the Barclay's Cycle Hire to get around London in addition to walking and taking the tube.
That's true, but I didn't think you could hire it easily if not a British resident.
There's a one-week pass for £5 that's perfect for us tourists. And the kiosks have no problem with our old fashioned mag stripe credit cards.
A few words of advice on UK dining:
Tipping at restaurants is expected but normally lower than what we tip in the US. I typically overtip at 15%-20% like I due at home due to an ingrained guilt over under tipping. If the credit card receipt doesn't include a tip line, gratuity was almost certainly already included.
If eating at a pub, there is no table service. Order food and drinks from the bartender, and tipping is not expected.
Liquor pours are a disappointing 25mL, about half a standard 1.5 oz American pour. Plan on ordering doubles of everything, and if ordering a mixed drink, expect to pay separate for the mixer and be served both separately, forcing you to DIY your gin and tonic.
Steaks are different. Rump steak is what we'd call round or sirloin. Their loin, sirloin, or porterhouse is actually a NY strip. A fillet is still a fillet, only they pronounce it fill-it.
Instead of appetizers and entrees you order starters and mains. And if you need to use the facilities look for toilets, not restrooms or bathrooms.
Good advice there; I had read before about different tipping practices, particularly in pubs. I have heard, though, that it's not inappropriate to include the bartender when buying a round, in lieu of tipping.
I don't believe tipping is customary in Japan either...I got some pretty weird looks when people in my group would try to leave extra money!
Quote from: realjd on November 12, 2012, 08:43:52 PMTipping at restaurants is expected but normally lower than what we tip in the US. I typically overtip at 15%-20% like I due at home due to an ingrained guilt over under tipping. If the credit card receipt doesn't include a tip line, gratuity was almost certainly already included.
10% is a good guide. And it's not expected at cafes, etc. Or if you are just having a sandwich, or whatever. Either a main or two courses, and a certain level of poshness is needed.
QuoteIf eating at a pub, there is no table service. Order food and drinks from the bartender, and tipping is not expected.
Depends - at busy times they might run table service. You'll be directed. And if they run table service, you get a passive-aggressive expectation of a tip when you pay.
Oh, and just as you don't order an entree (but rather a main), you don't order it from the bartender, but rather a barmaid or landlord or the convoluted 'person behind the bar' (there is 'barman', but I've never heard it). Typically the person is ignored - if directed to order there, it will be phrased 'order at the bar'.
Including one for yourself is typically in a villagey pub when buying 8 or 9 drinks. Certainly if buying two or three, you wouldn't do it unless this was the forth time you've come up. I'm not sure I've ever seen actually do it.
It does depend on how posh the place is, but you are not expected to tip people in the service industry unless there's a jar or something (with the obvious food caveats above - if you have a main meal and have table service). Obviously at a 5-star hotel in London, I imagine there's an expectation to tip room service and porters and so on. And even if there's a jar, it might simply be a change jar - again, poshness of the place is a helpful guide.
QuoteLiquor pours are a disappointing 25mL, about half a standard 1.5 oz American pour. Plan on ordering doubles of everything, and if ordering a mixed drink, expect to pay separate for the mixer and be served both separately, forcing you to DIY your gin and tonic.
What crappy pubs were you at? Yes measures are 25ml (the L isn't capital for litres), as that's 1 'unit' of alcohol (equivalent to 10ml neat - what the liver takes about an hour to sort out), so you might want to order doubles*. Mixers might not, but typically are, included in the price (it will be clear on the price list). All that's right, but being given a glass with some spirit in it and a bottle of mixer isn't typical - they will pour the bottle of tonic into it for you.
While we're on the subject of spirits and mixers, Pimms makes a nice summer afternoon/evening drink. Eat the fruit - it's soaked up a lot of the alcohol!
I've just noticed that realjd mentioned BrewDog - you can buy their Punk IPA in Tescos (along with lots of other bottles - any large supermarket, especially in the south, will have a range of world beers, a variety of British brands that are sort of medium-scale brands making craft beers on a big scale, and some local smaller-market craft beers. And your mass-produced major brands, of course). In many ways, the supermarket has killed the pub on that front. Our craft beer trade has matured and this is what you have - guest beers in many pubs all year round, large scale brewing of many craft beers for the supermarket market, beer festivals in cheap chain pubs.
I agree though that pubs don't tend to have as adventurous range of real ales as you would get in America (though of course, American-style IPA is basically the local rip off of the IPAs you find in British pubs - no surprise we don't have that. And we went off stout porters when the extravagance of porter was made illegal in Britain during WW1. The London Porter traditions have only just started to recover after handing a near monopoly to the Irish) and typically the beer from smaller breweries would be something that's quite typical (I had one called 'Naked Ladies (http://www.twickenham-fine-ales.co.uk/beers.html)' last night in South Ealing, brewed in Twickenham - basically a pretty standard hoppy light ale).
They will typically be a wider choice of drinks if you look over the bar and into the fridges. Mostly imported foreign lager, bottled cider, fruit juices - perhaps not really worth bothering with.
*to put it in beer terms, half a (UK) pint is about 1 unit, and you'd typically drink pints. I gather that in Scotland asking for a 'half' gives you a single shot of whisky.
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
Including one for yourself is typically in a villagey pub when buying 8 or 9 drinks. Certainly if buying two or three, you wouldn't do it unless this was the forth time you've come up. I'm not sure I've ever seen actually do it.
in this case, you mean include one for the bartender him/herself?
yes. the typical phrase is to list the the drinks you want and add "and one for yourself" at the end.
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 10:24:42 AM
yes. the typical phrase is to list the the drinks you want and add "and one for yourself" at the end.
I've only encountered that in the US when I've been at least an acquaintance or a friend-of-a-friend of the bartender.
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
Including one for yourself is typically in a villagey pub when buying 8 or 9 drinks. Certainly if buying two or three, you wouldn't do it unless this was the forth time you've come up. I'm not sure I've ever seen actually do it.
So, pretty much as in the States.
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
I've just noticed that realjd mentioned BrewDog - you can buy their Punk IPA in Tescos (along with lots of other bottles - any large supermarket, especially in the south, will have a range of world beers, a variety of British brands that are sort of medium-scale brands making craft beers on a big scale, and some local smaller-market craft beers. And your mass-produced major brands, of course). In many ways, the supermarket has killed the pub on that front. Our craft beer trade has matured and this is what you have - guest beers in many pubs all year round, large scale brewing of many craft beers for the supermarket market, beer festivals in cheap chain pubs.
Also sounding rather like here at home. :-)
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
I agree though that pubs don't tend to have as adventurous range of real ales as you would get in America (though of course, American-style IPA is basically the local rip off of the IPAs you find in British pubs - no surprise we don't have that. And we went off stout porters when the extravagance of porter was made illegal in Britain during WW1. The London Porter traditions have only just started to recover after handing a near monopoly to the Irish) and typically the beer from smaller breweries would be something that's quite typical (I had one called 'Naked Ladies (http://www.twickenham-fine-ales.co.uk/beers.html)' last night in South Ealing, brewed in Twickenham - basically a pretty standard hoppy light ale).
Although I'm becoming comfortable with a larger range of styles, my favorites still tend to be more on the German end: very robust lagers, bocks, and so forth. But real English and Irish ales are also perfectly welcome!
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
(the L isn't capital for litres)
Either upper- or lowercase is allowed.
Quote from: Bureau International des Poids et Mesures; 8th Edition, Sec. 5.1
Unit symbols are printed in roman (upright) type regardless of the type used in the surrounding text. They are printed in lower-case letters unless they are derived from a proper name, in which case the first letter is a capital letter.
An exception, adopted by the 16th CGPM (1979, Resolution 6), is that either capital L or lower-case l is allowed for the litre, in order to avoid possible confusion between the numeral 1 (one) and the lower-case letter l (el).
Yes, but it's always lower-case in the UK and Ireland. In Europe as a whole, in fact, some form of cursive 'l' is used in preference to a capital 'L' if you seek to avoid the '1' problem. mL made me do a double take as I thought 'what unit is 'L' - Lavoisier?' - it just looks wrong to me.
and while we're on units, be prepared to have to calculate from metric on occasion, but be aware that this is far less of an issue than you might think as there's little need to have to do it - the € and £ to $ conversion will be way more common. And as you are coming in summer, even the BBC will give Fahrenheit on the weather in Britain.
Quote from: empirestate on November 13, 2012, 10:38:19 AMAlthough I'm becoming comfortable with a larger range of styles, my favorites still tend to be more on the German end: very robust lagers, bocks, and so forth. But real English and Irish ales are also perfectly welcome!
While our lager drinkers tend to be of the no-taste buds philistine variety, there might be some good stuff in the fridge, but that tends to be Corona, or Budvar, or San Miquel - millions better than Bud, or Carling Black Label (or Stella, which is at least actually drinkable). "Bottle bars" will have a range of that sort of thing, but are few in number (and supermarkets would obviously have it). You might find Wheat beer on tap to meet that Germanic taste, but actually English 'warm' beer goes down a treat on warm days (much better than anything ice cold), especially IPA, which was brewed for the Indian climate!
Let Oz and James make you thirsty... They even do an Irish episode, just to say that there isn't just Guinness, Irish Cream and Whiskey (with a 'h' there and do NOT order Scotch there)!
QuoteWhat crappy pubs were you at? Yes measures are 25ml (the L isn't capital for litres), as that's 1 'unit' of alcohol (equivalent to 10ml neat - what the liver takes about an hour to sort out), so you might want to order doubles*. Mixers might not, but typically are, included in the price (it will be clear on the price list). All that's right, but being given a glass with some spirit in it and a bottle of mixer isn't typical - they will pour the bottle of tonic into it for you.
Using "l" may be standard for your litres but for us, "L" is the standard for our liters :) Here, using capital L is actually the legal standard as defined by NIST:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liter#Symbol
As for the pubs, thinking back, I don't recall if I was charged separate for the mixer. And I have never had the bartender ever mix for me. A gin and tonic was always a glass of gin and ice with a bottle of Britvic tonic on the side. And a rum and coke was always a glass with rum and ice served with a can of coke. Granted I mostly stuck with beer so I didn't order too many mixed drinks, and my experience is limited to central London. And a cocktail like a martini was always properly made behind the bar.
Quote
While we're on the subject of spirits and mixers, Pimms makes a nice summer afternoon/evening drink. Eat the fruit - it's soaked up a lot of the alcohol!
I've seen Pimms at the liquor store here. How is it usually served?
Quote
I've just noticed that realjd mentioned BrewDog - you can buy their Punk IPA in Tescos (along with lots of other bottles - any large supermarket, especially in the south, will have a range of world beers, a variety of British brands that are sort of medium-scale brands making craft beers on a big scale, and some local smaller-market craft beers. And your mass-produced major brands, of course). In many ways, the supermarket has killed the pub on that front. Our craft beer trade has matured and this is what you have - guest beers in many pubs all year round, large scale brewing of many craft beers for the supermarket market, beer festivals in cheap chain pubs.
BrewDog is awesome. We can get there stuff here on occasion which is why I knew to seek them out in London. I'm particularly fond of their Hardcore IIPA. Just like we have British and Irish pubs here, their bar in Camden has exactly the same feel as any Southern California craft beer bar. It was pretty wild.
Quote
I agree though that pubs don't tend to have as adventurous range of real ales as you would get in America (though of course, American-style IPA is basically the local rip off of the IPAs you find in British pubs - no surprise we don't have that. And we went off stout porters when the extravagance of porter was made illegal in Britain during WW1. The London Porter traditions have only just started to recover after handing a near monopoly to the Irish) and typically the beer from smaller breweries would be something that's quite typical (I had one called 'Naked Ladies (http://www.twickenham-fine-ales.co.uk/beers.html)' last night in South Ealing, brewed in Twickenham - basically a pretty standard hoppy light ale).
I was disappointed with most of the British call IPAs. The ones I found (Greene King comes to mind) were flavorless and low in alcohol content. American IPAs are much more hop-forward and are rarely under 6% ABV. American IPAs typically use Cascade and Centennial hops while British IPAs go more toward the more subtle Golding and Fuggle. Many British craft breweries do make beers in the American IPA style (labeled as such; also, BrewDog), and I had few excellent local IPAs made from British ingredients in more of an American style like the Meantime IPA out of Greenwich. I didn't venture much into the bottles behind the counter however. I'll look closer next time I'm there. I don't recall seeing too many IPAs on tap at all so maybe they were all hiding in the fridge. I was mainly trying to warn him that what the British call an IPA is very different from the high gravity hop bombs we're used to here. And I'll once again plug The Craft Beer Company on Leather Lane. That place is awesome.
My favorite ale over there is usually Tribute. I wish we could get it here. I can get Fullers and Hobgoblin though which tide me over when I get the craving for a nice English bitter. And interestingly, the Fullers product common here is almost always the ESB and not Pride. One of the local bars serves it on a nitro tap like Guinness and it comes out amazing like that.
Doesn't "real ale" refer specifically to cask ales? That's incredibly rare over here. Kegs are ubiquitous.
Quote from: empirestate on November 13, 2012, 10:38:19 AM
Although I'm becoming comfortable with a larger range of styles, my favorites still tend to be more on the German end: very robust lagers, bocks, and so forth. But real English and Irish ales are also perfectly welcome!
Your first taste of a real English ale, you'll think "that's warm and flat". Your second, you'll think "that's delicious" and be hooked.
As for lagers, be sure to try Budweiser Budvar. It's the real one that ours stole the name from and is really good. European lagers are also common in the pubs and taste better than the variants we get here in the states. And for whatever reason, Stella seemed to be the drink of choice for obnoxious teenagers. I believe the local word was "chav". Don't be a chav.
Quote from: english si on November 13, 2012, 06:26:31 AM
While we're on the subject of spirits and mixers, Pimms makes a nice summer afternoon/evening drink. Eat the fruit - it's soaked up a lot of the alcohol!
OTOH, the fruit marinading in alcohol that I've seen at breakfast buffets is NASTY.
Quote from: realjd on November 13, 2012, 07:18:30 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 13, 2012, 10:38:19 AM
Although I'm becoming comfortable with a larger range of styles, my favorites still tend to be more on the German end: very robust lagers, bocks, and so forth. But real English and Irish ales are also perfectly welcome!
Your first taste of a real English ale, you'll think "that's warm and flat". Your second, you'll think "that's delicious" and be hooked.
Already been through that!
Quote from: realjd on November 13, 2012, 07:10:53 PMI've seen Pimms at the liquor store here. How is it usually served?
The recipe on the Pimms site for 'English style':
Mix 1 part PIMM'S* No.1
with 3 parts chilled lemonade.
Add some mint, cucumber, orange
and strawberry
Most typically you make a bit pitcher. The lemonade is the clear carbonated kind that looks like it hasn't actually seen a lemon. Cucumber is cubed, Strawberries quartered, Orange sliced, Mint you just add fresh leaves. Apple slice are a variant. You can add 1 part vodka to make it more alcoholic. You would have roughly an orange slice, half a strawberry and 2 bits of cucumber - as well as 4 or 5 ice cubes - in each glass.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2012, 08:39:56 PMOTOH, the fruit marinading in alcohol that I've seen at breakfast buffets is NASTY.
This isn't, unless you leave it for a long time - like it would be at breakfast buffets. The lemon in the lemonade helps keep it fresh. Oh, and the alcohol matches the fruit (or rather the other way around).
Quote from: english si on October 19, 2012, 08:32:58 PM
If it's summer, the Ring of Kerry is an endless procession of cars - better off not doing it - SABRE can help give suggestions, but the N71 would be better, and the N59 is similar, but more remote.
For what it's worth, I'm on the trip now, and today we did the Ring of Kerry, keeping in mind the above advice and prepared to bail out and take an alternate route if the need arose. (BTW, did you mean taking the N71 beyond Kenmare? I had to do that far to get on the Ring anyhow.)
But I must say, though it is officially summer, I found the route to be pleasantly devoid of anything resembling an endless procession of cars–if anything, it was I holding up other motorists and not vice-versa. But I pulled over frequently to relieve any back-pressure, and seldom found my progress impeded by anyone ahead of me. Stunning scenery, of course, just what I was looking for. (The landscape surrounding the ring fort at Staigue is about as marvelous as any I've ever seen.)
I do find myself wishing I'd attempted the Gap of Dunloe by car, which is possible and legal despite widespread opinion to the contrary. As it happens, the pony cart we hired took us only to a place where we could see the road through the gap, but not actually through it, and now we're out of time and money to try again.
I did find adapting to the left-hand stickshift surprisingly easy–I only banged the door sill once trying to do it with the right hand. And keeping myself on the proper side of the road wasn't too hard; however, knowing where everyone
else was going to be took considerably more concentration. But by far the trickiest part (as my brother warned me in advance) was my spatial awareness of the left side of the car; I have run up on the left-hand curb repeatedly thinking it was farther away, while in other cases I have tended to hug the right side of parking stalls, and reversing is a challenge because I'm not accustomed to looking over my left shoulder. (I even lightly brushed a parked car with my left mirror, but that was more because of an oncoming car on a street not really wide enough for two, and I chose to err on the side of the left than the right.)
I am quite taken by the high speed limits all over the Irish roads: 100 km/h on any rural national route, whether or not that's actually remotely feasible. The complete lack of shoulders and advisory curve speeds, plus the overall narrowness of the highways, means that my own personal attentiveness and discretion become a lot more important. (That's not necessarily a bad thing.) Still, I'm alternately impressed and incredulous at the local drivers who seem to think they can actually attain such speeds, and apparently in fact do so quite regularly.
(Oh, and roundabouts? Piece of cake.)
Quote from: empirestate on June 26, 2013, 07:58:59 PMFor what it's worth, I'm on the trip now, and today we did the Ring of Kerry, keeping in mind the above advice and prepared to bail out and take an alternate route if the need arose. (BTW, did you mean taking the N71 beyond Kenmare? I had to do that far to get on the Ring anyhow.)
I did mean beyond, but nevermind, the ring was clear.
QuoteBut I must say, though it is officially summer,
Only seasonally - the weather has been more miss than hit (which will certainly make not going to the Med less attractive). Also the kids are still at school and it will be then that the N70 gets clogged up.
QuoteI am quite taken by the high speed limits all over the Irish roads: 100 km/h on any rural national route, whether or not that's actually remotely feasible.
That is a hangover from the good old days, when Ireland was using the British system of speed limits, and 'National Speed Limit' implied "we've not surveyed this - so default limit". The change to km/h made the limits specific and precise, which leads to it standing out more. Also more of a implication of a safe limit rather than a legal limit - makes it more of a target.
QuoteThe complete lack of shoulders and advisory curve speeds, plus the overall narrowness of the highways
To be fair, the SW has the worst roads in Ireland - especially when it comes to N roads. Ireland has a lot more shoulders than Britain.
Plus tourist N roads/scenic highways like the 'Ring' are going to have corners that are fairly tight (and with the speed limit fairly high, that means advisory curve speeds will be common).
Quotemeans that my own personal attentiveness and discretion become a lot more important. (That's not necessarily a bad thing.)
It's a very good thing - one of the many things that makes our roads safer than the USA's
QuoteStill, I'm alternately impressed and incredulous at the local drivers who seem to think they can actually attain such speeds, and apparently in fact do so quite regularly.
European limits are higher than US ones - we do drive faster on average anyway, there's the false sense of security, and there's the "rural Irish drivers are rather reckless" factor too.
Do keep us updated with more stuff.
Quote from: empirestate on June 26, 2013, 07:58:59 PM
I am quite taken by the high speed limits all over the Irish roads: 100 km/h on any rural national route, whether or not that's actually remotely feasible.
the US has lots of these too. various mountain roads signed at speed limit 50 or 55, even though good luck getting over 40, and most of the time you're doing 30.
see: West Virginia.
All the talk about drinking upthread has made me thirsty but overseas visitors to the UK need to remember our blood/alcohol limits are rather low. If you're driving, the best advice is "Don't drink and drive". A pint of beer or a double whisky at most, to be on the safe side. Whilst our boys in blue might find your foreign accent cute, they won't hesitate to give you a night's free accommodation in the cells if you are over the limit.
If you've parked your car for the night in the hotel car park on the other hand... :cheers: , (just remember you might still be over the limit the next morning if you've really tied one on the night before! :ded:).
Quote from: conekicker on July 08, 2013, 11:09:30 AM
All the talk about drinking upthread has made me thirsty but overseas visitors to the UK need to remember our blood/alcohol limits are rather low. If you're driving, the best advice is "Don't drink and drive". A pint of beer or a double whisky at most, to be on the safe side. Whilst our boys in blue might find your foreign accent cute, they won't hesitate to give you a night's free accommodation in the cells if you are over the limit.
Same warning applies in Finland and Sweden. Alcohol and driving are a mix that can land a person in jail there. And unlike the United States, law enforcement can demand that anyone driving a motor vehicle submit to a roadside PBT for any reason or no reason at all.
No probable cause is required for the police to stop someone and demand that they blow.