A little thought in the back of my head popped up while driving along I-10 to the Atchafalaya Basin, and it kept telling me that Louisiana used to have centered exit tabs. Sure enough, older photos have exit tabs right in the middle of the sign instead of to the right, and they were with the cutout state shields for the exit signs. These were replaced as time went along with the new state designs, and the exit tabs pushed to the right. It just seemed more... symmetrical... to have the exit tabs right in the middle of the sign, instead of to the right, especially where the signs have the state shield in the middle, and words in the middle. If the text and images can be in the middle, why not exit tabs as well?
Anyways... any other examples of states using the center exit tabs? I'd love to see some centered Clearview exit tabs!
Oregon does it, although in the last year or so there have been a number of signs cropping up (particularly on U.S. 26) that have right-centered exit tabs.
I agree - the center-tab just looks good.
I do like Arizona's exit tabs, with the square edges and rounded border.
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/arizona010/i-010_eb_exit_001_03.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/arizona010/i-010_eb_exit_031_02.jpg)
Meanwhile California has a variety of exit tab styles:
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images101/us-101_nb_exit_367_04.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images101/us-101_nb_exit_373_02.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images101/us-101_nb_exit_433b_01.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images091/ca-091_wb_exit_029_03.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images005/i-005_nb_exit_657_03.jpg)
Queensland has green on white exit tabs that were retrofitted on existing signs in 2000.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Foldsite%2Fphotogallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Fm1%2Fpacificmwy%2F02beenleightonerang%2Fimages%2F200603_38_pimpana.jpg&hash=38e5db11ff843b4cd453048e2374df00a1cefb62)
Don't forget Washington's full-width tabs...
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/washington005/i-005_nb_exit_167_01.jpg)
Quote from: mcdonaat on October 19, 2012, 12:07:54 AM
Anyways... any other examples of states using the center exit tabs? I'd love to see some centered Clearview exit tabs!
You're probably never going to see a centered Clearview exit tab because the new MUTCD requires that tabs be right or left justified depending on whether the exit is a right or left exit. Hopefully Clearview will just go away, never to be heard from again but I digress.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 19, 2012, 02:27:17 AM
Quote from: mcdonaat on October 19, 2012, 12:07:54 AM
Anyways... any other examples of states using the center exit tabs? I'd love to see some centered Clearview exit tabs!
You're probably never going to see a centered Clearview exit tab because the new MUTCD requires that tabs be right or left justified depending on whether the exit is a right or left exit. Hopefully Clearview will just go away, never to be heard from again but I digress.
Did someone ask for centered Clearview exit tabs?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1321.jpg&hash=95ad593e6b2ade74c32227eac84cd2cfe8bcd9fb)
Courtesy IDOT District 3.
Quote from: mcdonaat on October 19, 2012, 12:07:54 AM
Sure enough, older photos have exit tabs right in the middle of the sign instead of to the right, and they were with the cutout state shields for the exit signs.
can you post a photo please?
Maryland often uses a style that I'm not sure I'd call a "tab" (picture from AARoads.com, I-70 eastbound):
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland070/i-070_eb_exit_003_01.jpg)
They don't always do it that way, of course, but it's not unusual to find an excessive amount of space between the word "Exit" and the number on their signs (again from AARoads, this time from the Inner Loop of the Beltway in PG County):
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_sb_exit_016_01.jpg)
For a short time a few years ago, Virginia had a centered exit tab on a sign on the Beltway's Outer Loop approaching the Springfield Interchange. The thru lanes on the Beltway were designated as "Exit 57C" and because there was a left exit to I-395 and a right exit to I-95 South, they reasoned that the thru lanes were an "exit" taking you to I-95 North and thus were a "center exit." These signs have all been redone, in part because the ramp to I-395 now departs on the right, in part because of other new construction, and in part because so many people complained about the "exit" terminology that they removed the exit tab for the thru lanes. (This is an example where a highway engineer's logic doesn't really make sense to the general public. It doesn't matter if you're going from I-495 to I-95: The average driver views it as simply staying on the Beltway.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/virginia495/i-495_ol_exit_057a_06.jpg)
I don't have a picture of it, but the sign for Exit 3A on northbound I-395 in Virginia has a left-mounted exit tab for a right-hand exit. (The pictures I can find online are all of the old sign, where the tab was a bit closer to the center.)
Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2012, 07:13:23 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 19, 2012, 02:27:17 AM
You're probably never going to see a centered Clearview exit tab because the new MUTCD requires that tabs be right or left justified depending on whether the exit is a right or left exit. Hopefully Clearview will just go away, never to be heard from again but I digress.
Did someone ask for centered Clearview exit tabs?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1321.jpg&hash=95ad593e6b2ade74c32227eac84cd2cfe8bcd9fb)
Courtesy IDOT District 3.
Oops. I stand corrected but I still don't like Clearview :banghead:
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 19, 2012, 10:37:31 AM
I don't have a picture of it, but the sign for Exit 3A on northbound I-395 in Virginia has a left-mounted exit tab for a right-hand exit. (The pictures I can find online are all of the old sign, where the tab was a bit closer to the center.)
One of the signs for the US 17 / J Clyde Morris Blvd exit on I-64 eastbound in Newport News also has a left tab for a right exit.
New York and South Carolina have right justified exit tabs not quite all the way to the right. They are placed about a foot left from the edge of the sign.
Until recently, ConnDOT featured borderless Exit tabs for their BGS'. Originally, they were placed center-top of the main BGS; then later placed on the right-top or left-top depending on where the location of the exit ramp.
Prior to the 1970s, the MassDPW featured detached exit tabs on their BGS. Like ConnDOT, these tabs had no border on them. Many of the older 50s-vintage wooden variants would typically get either knocked off or blown over.
Conversely, it was also not uncommon to see just the exit tab standing but a big void space where the main BGS once stood. Those were likely knocked down in an accident but the state would re-erect the posts along with the exit tab until the main panel was either repaired or replaced.
During the mid-to-late 70s, RIDOT featured full-length exit tabs for its BGS' along I-95 in Pawtucket & Providence (just north of I-195 at the time). The set-up may have been in anticipation of the dual-tabbed Mile #/Exit # motif that was (& still is in some areas) present along I-295.
I believe the first, exit-ramp-justified exit tab BGS' (vs. centered) I saw was along I-195 in Providence (west of the old Washington Bridge) during the late 70s/early 80s.
Something to add on Illinois and their exit tabs from recent observations in the state. I was on Interstate 70 near the Indiana border and saw that they had full length tabs (though I believe that is common for Illinois) with the text positioned to the right, and the sign was in Clearview. I've seen plenty of the center tabs by themselves and some in Clearview (such as around Champaign) but I would guess that based on what I saw in Clark County, Illinois that may be the new thing.
I always found it cool how the exit tabs on the older signs in Massachusetts (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6463206473_e5ea122e3a_b.jpg), Rhode Island (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5266/5650102275_f34b6617f1_b.jpg), and Maine (http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6144/5919637075_b5f1ab2fa5_b.jpg) have it so the exit tab appears to be part of the main sign (i.e. no separation line between the tab and the rest of the sign).
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 19, 2012, 06:55:01 PM
I always found it cool how the exit tabs on the older signs in Massachusetts (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6463206473_e5ea122e3a_b.jpg), Rhode Island (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5266/5650102275_f34b6617f1_b.jpg), and Maine (http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6144/5919637075_b5f1ab2fa5_b.jpg) have it so the exit tab appears to be part of the main sign (i.e. no separation line between the tab and the rest of the sign).
Yes, they were cool from an appearance standpoint, but they were complicated from a sign fabrication one. Especially if the tab was put on the wrong end of the sign - i.e. right-side mounting for a left-side exit. Shifting the tab and re-aligning the border and number is something that normally wasn't feasible over live traffic, so in the rare cases such errors were made, the contractor would have to take the sign down, fix it in the shop, and then put it back up.
Now, if it happened that the error was made during fabrication, then the contractor would have to eat the mistake. But, say the error was made during design and not caught beforehand, the state would then be on the hook for the additional cost to fix it.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 19, 2012, 01:41:01 PM
Something to add on Illinois and their exit tabs from recent observations in the state. I was on Interstate 70 near the Indiana border and saw that they had full length tabs (though I believe that is common for Illinois) with the text positioned to the right, and the sign was in Clearview. I've seen plenty of the center tabs by themselves and some in Clearview (such as around Champaign) but I would guess that based on what I saw in Clark County, Illinois that may be the new thing.
The full-width justified tab is SOP in Illinois (other than ISTHA). Any centered tabs you see are either a, old; or b, mistakes as posted above for I-180. ISTHA, along I-88 west of Aurora, uses fully bordered tabs aligned to the right (they have no left exits).
Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2012, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 19, 2012, 06:55:01 PM
I always found it cool how the exit tabs on the older signs in Massachusetts (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6463206473_e5ea122e3a_b.jpg), Rhode Island (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5266/5650102275_f34b6617f1_b.jpg), and Maine (http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6144/5919637075_b5f1ab2fa5_b.jpg) have it so the exit tab appears to be part of the main sign (i.e. no separation line between the tab and the rest of the sign).
Yes, they were cool from an appearance standpoint, but they were complicated from a sign fabrication one. Especially if the tab was put on the wrong end of the sign - i.e. right-side mounting for a left-side exit. Shifting the tab and re-aligning the border and number is something that normally wasn't feasible over live traffic, so in the rare cases such errors were made, the contractor would have to take the sign down, fix it in the shop, and then put it back up.
Now, if it happened that the error was made during fabrication, then the contractor would have to eat the mistake. But, say the error was made during design and not caught beforehand, the state would then be on the hook for the additional cost to fix it.
Huh, I never really even thought about that until now. I definitely see how that would be problematic.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 19, 2012, 07:25:37 PM
Huh, I never really even thought about that until now. I definitely see how that would be problematic.
Of course, the principal reason MassDOT finally gave up "integral" exit tabs in favor of full sized tabs with a shared border (bottom of exit tab uses the top border on the main sign) on their newer signs is because of current MUTCD requirements.
Note that the height of the older tabs was 18 inches high. Because of the tab design, which omitted the top border on the BGS beneath the exit tab, so the exit number could overlap onto the BGS, MassDPW was granted a waiver from FHWA that allowed them to continue specifying 18 inch high tabs even after the MUTCD (1978) revised the minimum height to 24 inches.
With the 2003 MUTCD requirement that exit tabs now be 30 inches high, MassDOT saw no legitimate reason to keep the "classic" integral design. So, since about 2004, the "standard" exit tab design has been in use in Massachusetts.
Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2012, 07:40:07 PM
With the 2003 MUTCD requirement that exit tabs now be 30 inches high,
how high are Arizona's tabs? on the new Clearview signs, the tabs seem disproportionately high. are they 36", or is it just an illusion caused by the small word "EXIT"?
looking at the "exit 31, US-60 Wickenburg" sign posted upthread, it appears that the tab is as large as the 60 shield, which is likely a standard 36 incher. Am I correct?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 19, 2012, 07:45:07 PMhow high are Arizona's tabs? on the new Clearview signs, the tabs seem disproportionately high. are they 36", or is it just an illusion caused by the small word "EXIT"?
They are 36" high. Other dimensions are normal (10" word "EXIT," 15" exit number). But the 36" height seems to have come in at the same time as Clearview (around 2005)--previously to that, the standard exit tab height was 24", with Series D Modified being used in the button copy era (pre-1998) and Series E immediately afterward.
Edit: I checked more thoroughly and the 36" tab height seems to have been introduced shortly before Clearview. There are a few contracts (notably I-10 Ina-Cortaro, from 2004) with Series E Modified and 36" tabs. But some contracts of similar vintage (I-10/I-19 "Crossing" trumpet-to-wye conversion, finished 2004) have the old 24" tabs, so the window for 36" tabs with Series E Modified was very narrow.
Forgot photos!
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/LA/LA19909751i1.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Flouisiana001%2Fi-010_wb_exit_163_02.jpg&hash=db05882743b495f65b5c135e14e1f9dfb956c027)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Flouisiana001%2Fi-010_eb_exit_082_02.jpg&hash=625eeba03925d335e9d281b40eeab84c0bb8fd5b)
All pulled from Southeastroads. They show cutout shields or just regular street names with centered tabs.
In Ohio, it varies by district, and by what that district wanted to do at the time of the sign project. Aligning the tab based on which side the exit is on is a consistent practice, however.
As for other style points, my preference is for the tab to have top corners rounded at a smaller radius than the main sign panel, main sign panel has no rounding in top right (or left, as appropriate) corner, exit tab has no bottom border and is flush with main panel, giving appearance of a merged border line. This was pictured in some Arizona examples near top of thread.
Quote from: mcdonaat on October 19, 2012, 11:08:18 PM
Forgot photos!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Flouisiana001%2Fi-010_wb_exit_163_02.jpg&hash=db05882743b495f65b5c135e14e1f9dfb956c027)
All pulled from Southeastroads. They show cutout shields or just regular street names with centered tabs.
Hey, I like this type of gantry. Looks really funky, mcdonaat! :)
That I-80/180 sign (I assume that's Iowa?) combines the two things I hate in BGS's. Clearview and Center-tabbing.
Also, is Washington State moving towards tabbed signs? I know in the south parts of WS I've seen some directional-tabbed (my term for the right or left placement of the sign) signs on I-5, though I forget who took them. I guess if Georgia can do it, Washington can.
North Carolina is a mix of tabs, even in their newer "upgraded" format. I only have photos on Facebook, but it looks like a great many interstate-to-interstate junctions use a thinner tab, some newer signs use right-angle corners, but the majority I've seen use rounded corners.
Quote from: OracleUsr on October 20, 2012, 10:18:39 AM
Also, is Washington State moving towards tabbed signs? I know in the south parts of WS I've seen some directional-tabbed (my term for the right or left placement of the sign) signs on I-5, though I forget who took them. I guess if Georgia can do it, Washington can.
Nope. The directional-tabbed signs there are unique within the state to that DOT region. Many, perhaps most, of the BGSs here in Bellingham have been replaced over the past 3 years, all with Washington-style "tabs".
Quote from: national highway 1 on October 20, 2012, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: mcdonaat on October 19, 2012, 11:08:18 PM
Forgot photos!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Flouisiana001%2Fi-010_wb_exit_163_02.jpg&hash=db05882743b495f65b5c135e14e1f9dfb956c027)
All pulled from Southeastroads. They show cutout shields or just regular street names with centered tabs.
Hey, I like this type of gantry. Looks really funky, mcdonaat! :)
Pennsylvania also has these neat looking gantries.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 19, 2012, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2012, 07:13:23 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 19, 2012, 02:27:17 AM
You're probably never going to see a centered Clearview exit tab because the new MUTCD requires that tabs be right or left justified depending on whether the exit is a right or left exit. Hopefully Clearview will just go away, never to be heard from again but I digress.
Did someone ask for centered Clearview exit tabs?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1321.jpg&hash=95ad593e6b2ade74c32227eac84cd2cfe8bcd9fb)
Courtesy IDOT District 3.
Oops. I stand corrected but I still don't like Clearview :banghead:
From Steve's I-80 IL page (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/il/i-80/), a Summa 1976 photo....very little has changed except for ugly Clearview arriving on the scene!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fil%2Fi-80%2Fw61.jpg&hash=a5cfb2306498773de6877aed925650f89fdf5e1b)
Quote from: PurdueBill on October 20, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
From Steve's I-80 IL page (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/il/i-80/), a Summa 1976 photo....very little has changed except for ugly Clearview arriving on the scene!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fil%2Fi-80%2Fw61.jpg&hash=a5cfb2306498773de6877aed925650f89fdf5e1b)
I have to wonder then if there was a similarly identical non-button copy FHWA version sometime between 1976 and 2012.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on October 20, 2012, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on October 20, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
From Steve's I-80 IL page (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/il/i-80/), a Summa 1976 photo....very little has changed except for ugly Clearview arriving on the scene!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fil%2Fi-80%2Fw61.jpg&hash=a5cfb2306498773de6877aed925650f89fdf5e1b)
I have to wonder then if there was a similarly identical non-button copy FHWA version sometime between 1976 and 2012.
Street View suggests yes--also with centered exit tab! (http://goo.gl/maps/hhNyL)
Somehow I bet the exact same designs have been replicated over and over--note that the pull-through sign doesn't have the larger capital W in WEST.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on October 20, 2012, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on October 20, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
From Steve's I-80 IL page (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/il/i-80/), a Summa 1976 photo....very little has changed except for ugly Clearview arriving on the scene!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fil%2Fi-80%2Fw61.jpg&hash=a5cfb2306498773de6877aed925650f89fdf5e1b)
I have to wonder then if there was a similarly identical non-button copy FHWA version sometime between 1976 and 2012.
Yes, there was. Never got a picture of it though. It's three generations of the same near-identical sign.
IDOT appears to be into cloning.
VDOT has made a lot of carbon copy BGS's over the years as well, even those with outdated routing on them, but the exit tabs are nothing special.
I-40 through Raleigh has many older centered tabs, though the newer ones aren't. Over the next 3 years NCDOT will be completely tearing up (concrete a couple of feet deep) and rebuilding I-40(just beyond these photos). Concrete barriers will reduce capacity to only 2 lanes, and the anticipated traffic nightmare has been dubbed "Crawleigh."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FI-40_2_zpsc04dd04a.png&hash=3d1addee9d355bd92e928993bb34cdc9a504b744)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FI-40_3_zpse5282651.png&hash=9cfcfe86cb3d419b9110e6646dd0959875cea490)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FI-40_4_zps5beb8d52.png&hash=7d97bef0a01e25ff796f11e2f7a72a8d3f276644)
Quote from: OracleUsr on October 20, 2012, 10:18:39 AM
That I-80/180 sign (I assume that's Iowa?) combines the two things I hate in BGS's. Clearview and Center-tabbing.
Nope, it's in Illinois. ;-)
Quote from: Takumi on October 20, 2012, 11:29:06 PM
VDOT has made a lot of carbon copy BGS's over the years as well, even those with outdated routing on them, but the exit tabs are nothing special.
To me the most unique exit tabs in Virginia are the signs on the Beltway's Inner Loop Local lanes for Exit 177 (US-1 and Washington Street in Alexandria, although Washington Street is marked as "Mount Vernon"). The signs are unique because even though they're within Virginia's territory, they're very clearly Maryland-spec signs. This picture from Scott Kozel's site was taken four years ago. Other things have changed through there, but the signs still look like this, and Virginia does not normally make signs that look like these (presumably Maryland posted them under some agreement between the states as part of the construction project):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capital-beltway.com%2FWWB-Jun212008-31.jpg&hash=fd20f9b6169e44ccae9f14403e23205f77650a95)
BTW, I must say I rather like the gantry in that picture. Maryland's been using that style, in various colors, on a number of roads (including the Intercounty Connector, where they're brown), and I think they look nicer than the rather industrial-looking girder style Virginia prefers (and the new ones on the Beltway through the 495 Express Lanes area tend to look sort of like box girders).
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 22, 2012, 10:07:40 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capital-beltway.com%2FWWB-Jun212008-31.jpg&hash=fd20f9b6169e44ccae9f14403e23205f77650a95)
BTW, I must say I rather like the gantry in that picture. Maryland's been using that style, in various colors, on a number of roads (including the Intercounty Connector, where they're brown), and I think they look nicer than the rather industrial-looking girder style Virginia prefers (and the new ones on the Beltway through the 495 Express Lanes area tend to look sort of like box girders).
Boston uses those style gantries along the
open-air sections of its Big Dig portions of I-90, I-93 & MA 1A (near Logan Airport).
I didn't know MD switched to using rounded tabs.
Quote from: deanej on October 22, 2012, 11:23:39 AM
I didn't know MD switched to using rounded tabs.
Actually, they didn't. It appears that way in the pic until you take a closer look. The corners tend to blend in with the hazy background.
Nice looking freeway though!
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 22, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: deanej on October 22, 2012, 11:23:39 AM
I didn't know MD switched to using rounded tabs.
Actually, they didn't. It appears that way in the pic until you take a closer look. The corners tend to blend in with the hazy background.
Nice looking freeway though!
Guys, If you're referring to the pic that 1995hoo posted; that gantry appears to be actually located in Virginia not Maryland. While I know there is no toll on it but is the Woodrow Wilson Bridge run/maintained/signed by a separate agency (to VADOT or MD-DOT(?)) or is it a joint-venture between the 2 respective state DOTs (VA & MD)? If it's the former (a separate agency), that could explain the use of a more unique-styled gantry.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 22, 2012, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 22, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: deanej on October 22, 2012, 11:23:39 AM
I didn't know MD switched to using rounded tabs.
Actually, they didn't. It appears that way in the pic until you take a closer look. The corners tend to blend in with the hazy background.
Nice looking freeway though!
Guys, If you're referring to the pic that 1995hoo posted; that gantry appears to be actually located in Virginia not Maryland. While I know there is no toll on it but is the Woodrow Wilson Bridge run/maintained/signed by a separate agency (to VADOT or MD-DOT(?)) or is it a joint-venture between the 2 respective state DOTs (VA & MD)? If it's the former (a separate agency), that could explain the use of a more unique-styled gantry.
Correct, the gantry is indeed in Virginia, and that was the point I was making when I posted it–the sign follows Maryland signage practices, especially with respect to the exit tabs and the gantry design, but it's absolutely located in Virginia (there's a cemetery located out of the picture to the right, and Jones Point Park is out of the picture to the left). The bridge is jointly owned and maintained by the two states' departments of transportation; while a minuscule portion passes through the District of Columbia, DC gave up any rights, ownership, or responsibility and instead granted Virginia and Maryland an easement through DC territory. I don't know how the two states have divided up the responsibility, but the signage on the bridge leads me to conclude that Maryland is probably responsible for maintaining that aspect. Standard Virginia signs would look quite different from those and the gantry would absolutely have a much more utilitarian, industrial look.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 22, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: deanej on October 22, 2012, 11:23:39 AM
I didn't know MD switched to using rounded tabs.
Actually, they didn't. It appears that way in the pic until you take a closer look. The corners tend to blend in with the hazy background.
Nice looking freeway though!
You should see it now. That picture dates back to 2008. Those lanes had just opened. The construction on the Beltway is now pretty much complete and we have a nice quad-carriageway "Local/Thru" configuration that varies between 2-2-2-2 and 3-2-2-3 at different points (the bridge itself is 3-2-2-3). It's been one of the biggest improvements I can remember in this area and I've lived here since 1974; most notably, the Beltway near my house used to be at a standstill every morning and evening during rush hour and now it flows freely between 60 and 80 mph.
Here's a more recent picture from Wikipedia, this one from 2009; it was taken a little further to the east (if you look in the background you can see the signs from the picture in my prior post). This one is in the "Thru" carriageway, which wasn't open when the previous picture was taken.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc8%2FWelcomeVA495WWB.jpg%2F640px-WelcomeVA495WWB.jpg&hash=9430e8944e285ec7e4fb51f48010e576fe75a404)
Edited to add:
For fun, I dug around on AARoads and RoadstotheFuture until I found a picture of how the Beltway looked around there prior to the construction. In the first picture I posted earlier (which I re-post here for comparison purposes), the "urban deck" behind the signs carries Washington Street (the George Washington Parkway, but it changes names in the City of Alexandria) over the Beltway. In the older picture here, that dingy old overpass carries Washington Street in precisely the same spot. The urban deck is wider, though.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capital-beltway.com%2FWWB-Jun212008-31.jpg&hash=fd20f9b6169e44ccae9f14403e23205f77650a95) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/virginia095/i-095_sb_exit_177c_01.jpg)
This picture is from the other side of the "urban deck" and shows more typical Virginia exit tabs. This one, and the older picture shown above, may help clarify what I was getting at about Maryland-standard signage versus Virginia-standard signage. (Note also the more industrial-looking gantry. This picture is from AARoads.com from July 2010.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/virginia095/i-095_sb_exit_177c_04.jpg)
I've noticed on that section of the Beltway around the Wilson Bridge that VDOT and MDSHA work together on signage a lot. In both states, the signage looks pretty similar and there are correct shields for the opposite state.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 19, 2012, 10:37:31 AM
....
I don't have a picture of it, but the sign for Exit 3A on northbound I-395 in Virginia has a left-mounted exit tab for a right-hand exit. (The pictures I can find online are all of the old sign, where the tab was a bit closer to the center.)
I made the comment above last week. Got a picture of the sign when I used that exit ramp yesterday. I don't normally mind Clearview, but I find this sign ugly in multiple ways (misplaced exit tab; too much space between the "3" and the "A"; "Duke St" text is too large; "Duke St" text is crammed too close to the shield):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FMiscellaneousOctober2012060.jpg&hash=b489cf42fd537efbe5dc942027c658898bbcf925)
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 22, 2012, 03:59:31 PM
To me the most unique exit tabs in Virginia are the signs on the Beltway's Inner Loop Local lanes for Exit 177 (US-1 and Washington Street in Alexandria, although Washington Street is marked as "Mount Vernon"). The signs are unique because even though they're within Virginia's territory, they're very clearly Maryland-spec signs. This picture from Scott Kozel's site was taken four years ago. Other things have changed through there, but the signs still look like this, and Virginia does not normally make signs that look like these (presumably Maryland posted them under some agreement between the states as part of the construction project):
Here's the deal regarding the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
The Maryland State Highway Administration was responsible for building the
entire bridge,
including those segments that stand in the District of Columbia (the draw span is, I believe, entirely in D.C.) and the approach structure in Virginia.
This is consistent with other bridges across the Potomac River between Maryland and Virginia. Because Maryland's territory extends to the high water mark on the Virginia side (though there are some bays in the tidal section of the Potomac that belong to the Commonwealth), Maryland takes responsibility for the entire structure, including what connects the bridge to the highway network on the Virginia side. That's the case with the I-495 (American Legion), U.S. 15 (Point of Rocks), Md. 17 (Brunswick) and U.S. 340 (Knoxville) bridges.
If you look in the Maryland SHA's
Highway Location Reference, there is usually the text "BEGIN BRIDGE IN VIRGINIA" before the state line.
One exception (not sure why) is the U.S. 301 (Gov. Nice/Potomac River Bridge) between King George County, Va. and Charles County, which (according to the
HLR) begins right at the Virginia border.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 26, 2012, 11:07:22 AM
Here's the deal regarding the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
The Maryland State Highway Administration was responsible for building the entire bridge, including those segments that stand in the District of Columbia (the draw span is, I believe, entirely in D.C.) and the approach structure in Virginia.
....
Somewhere I have a picture that would let me confirm the draw span info. I took a bike ride across the bridge a year or two ago and took pictures. The bike/pedestrian path has markers showing where the state/territorial borders are. But I can't figure out where I saved the pictures!
Here are some of New Jersey specific exit tabs on I-78 East from Exit 3 up to 48 and also I-287 north from exit 1 to 37 both are taken from alps roads http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/i-287/n1.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/i-287/n1.html) and http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/i-78/e.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/i-78/e.html)
I don't mind the exit tabs being to the left or right. There is an exit sign on 10 east in NOLA with the exit tab in the center on a "split sign" at Airline Hwy./Tulane Ave. exit. Calif. really needs to get it's act together! :D