I-94 near Milwaukee has been under construction for quite awhile, and I can't help to not think about the 55mph work zone speed limits that I encounter at times. Back when 94 was being reconstructed in Illinois, they had some terribly low (but more normal for a work zone) limits of 40-45mph. Has anyone seen faster limits through a work/construction zone? I've driven on I-94 in Michigan and I-80/90 in Ohio a couple times and I'm *pretty* sure I've seen even faster work zone speeds, but can't remember what they were off hand.
I'm not advocating these speed limits should be lower or anything, I just find it kind of interesting.
Also, has anyone ever seen a speed limit sign that isn't a multiple of 5? I've never seen one, but there are millions of speed limit signs throughout the US... there's gotta be a weird one somewhere. (Example: Speed Limit 67... or something).
There are a couple signs in the www.plan94.org construction area that read simply "Speed 55" too (they look similar to a "Trucks __" sign... not like the "Speed __" signs that can be found in Oregon). I'm pretty sure they're just temporary, but still kinda neat/weird.
Share anything you want that relates to speed limit signs :)
Quote from: colinstu on October 28, 2012, 01:32:09 PM
Also, has anyone ever seen a speed limit sign that isn't a multiple of 5? I've never seen one, but there are millions of speed limit signs throughout the US... there's gotta be a weird one somewhere. (Example: Speed Limit 67... or something).
Not an "official" speed limit, in that it's not on a "public" road, but the entrance road to Busch Gardens Williamsburg in Virginia has a posted speed limit of 18, with full MUTCD-compliant signs. And I know plenty of campgrounds, trailer parks, apartment complexes, etc. will post something like "Speed limit 15 1/2" just to try and catch drivers' attention.
Also, thread moved to traffic control, since speed limits (work zone or no) are a form of traffic control.
When I was in law school, the speed limit on James Street in Durham, NC, was 27 mph (standard signs; the city council had mandated that speed limit). It was changed to 25 mph a few years after I graduated in 1998.
NYSDOT region 9 (Binghamton) often doesn't post work zone speed limits at all in rural areas. There are a few work zones with de facto 65 mph limits because of this.
Quote from: colinstu on October 28, 2012, 01:32:09 PM
I-94 near Milwaukee has been under construction for quite awhile, and I can't help to not think about the 55mph work zone speed limits that I encounter at times. Back when 94 was being reconstructed in Illinois, they had some terribly low (but more normal for a work zone) limits of 40-45mph. Has anyone seen faster limits through a work/construction zone? I've driven on I-94 in Michigan and I-80/90 in Ohio a couple times and I'm *pretty* sure I've seen even faster work zone speeds, but can't remember what they were off hand.
Michigan has 60 mph in work zones unless workers are present (45 mph). Then, for workers to present, they must be separated from traffic by cones or barrels. If there is a concrete barrier, then the limit is 60, not 45.
To me, that's just common sense.
There have been work zone speed limits of 70 on I-10 and I-20 in Texas where the regular speed limit is 80. I've seen a work zone speed limit of 65 on a farm-to-market road with a regular limit of 75. Those are the highest I'm aware of. As for strange numbers, I've never seen one on a speed limit sign, but I remember an advisory speed sign on the old West Freeway (Lancaster elevated) in Fort Worth that had a couple of trucks on a sign showing a left curve. It said "32 MPH" or "32 M.P.H." It was unique. It was a big sign, not a little square that goes under a diamond. It was all on a single a rectangle. As I recall, it was mounted on a bridge abutment and was only on the westbound side. That portion of freeway was replaced and demolished.
Maryland has had a few work zones with no reduction in speed on I-95, where the speed limit is 65. This has been done even with lane closures. Of course, both work zones had speed cameras.
Mountain Road NW in Albuquerque has a posted speed limit of 18 MPH. I think the odd (OK, 18 is even but it's not evenly divisible by 5) speed limit is due to the bike lane on a narrow two-lane street and resulting desire to limit traffic speed along this route near Old Town Albuquerque.
There is a self-storage place down the street that has a 9½ MPH speed limit posted on a standard sign.
as of 2006, the town of Trenton, TN had speed limit 31 on its major roads.
Quote from: wxfree on October 28, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
I remember an advisory speed sign on the old West Freeway (Lancaster elevated) in Fort Worth that had a couple of trucks on a sign showing a left curve. It said "32 MPH" or "32 M.P.H." It was unique. It was a big sign, not a little square that goes under a diamond.
in Torrance, CA there is an underpass to I-405 which zigzags and has an advisory speed of 27. It used to be a two-sign assembly - a curve diamond, and underneath it a square with "27 MPH" - with the 27 in an old-style block font. It has been recently updated to a California-standard single diamond sign with the number underneath the arrow. the number remains 27.
Page, AZ:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg855.imageshack.us%2Fimg855%2F7807%2Fimg0464b.jpg&hash=9221a8af193079d9a42481812cfc295bbdac15e9)
Quote from: Duke87 on October 29, 2012, 01:42:49 PM
Page, AZ:
doesn't count if it's in Arialveticverstesk.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 28, 2012, 11:11:09 PM
There is a self-storage place down the street that has a 9½ MPH speed limit posted on a standard sign.
I worked at a retirement home that had a standard sign with speed limit 9. I asked why and they said it was because it catches your eye.
Private property, of course, is not subject to MUTCD "5 or 0" guidelines.
I've heard some psychobabble before that people are more likely to obey a certain numerical limit if it's an unusual number. The reasoning is the unfamiliar number forces you to think about it more. I've seen this applied in educational conferences I attend where we're given an 8 minute break instead of 5 or 10 -- they think it makes it more likely you'll return at the desired time.
That might explain these unusual speed limits, but they could also just be examples of civil creativity.
^ I've heard and read similar things about speed limits. I think some roads at the Las Vegas Speedway used to have "Speed Limit 23" signs, and a question to the local paper about the unusual number resulted in a similar response.
I've seen first hand the odd number effect in relation to timing. As an RA in the res halls at UNR, I did a game night that I advertised starting at 9:07pm. (I figured it would take me about 7 minutes after getting off of a desk shift at 9pm to get things ready in the lounge.) It turned out that people noticed the awkward time and it stuck in their head, so they remembered to come. That started a trend for a year or so that whenever we played that game at game night, it always started at an X:07 time, regardless of whether it was logistically necessary to do so.
Quote from: roadfro on October 30, 2012, 05:34:08 AM
I've seen first hand the odd number effect in relation to timing.
Heh, I remember when TBS used to offset all their programming to begin at xx:05 or xx:35.
Quote from: roadfro on October 30, 2012, 05:34:08 AM
^ I've heard and read similar things about speed limits. I think some roads at the Las Vegas Speedway used to have "Speed Limit 23" signs, and a question to the local paper about the unusual number resulted in a similar response.
I've seen first hand the odd number effect in relation to timing. As an RA in the res halls at UNR, I did a game night that I advertised starting at 9:07pm. (I figured it would take me about 7 minutes after getting off of a desk shift at 9pm to get things ready in the lounge.) It turned out that people noticed the awkward time and it stuck in their head, so they remembered to come. That started a trend for a year or so that whenever we played that game at game night, it always started at an X:07 time, regardless of whether it was logistically necessary to do so.
isn't the Super Bowl kickoff advertised at 6:18pm? I'm not sure how that ended up being the case, and am surprised they haven't pushed it to 6:30 to push another 12 minutes of advertising down people's throats.
Quote from: formulanone on October 30, 2012, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: roadfro on October 30, 2012, 05:34:08 AM
I've seen first hand the odd number effect in relation to timing.
Heh, I remember when TBS used to offset all their programming to begin at xx:05 or xx:35.
Yeah, an offset arms race is a little different.
Redstone Plaza, a strip mall in Stoneham MA, has black on white signs that read "SPEED LIMIT 5-10 MPH". However, as it's private property, I doubt there's a special speed regulation for it.
Greenwood Avenue in Wakefield MA has some interesting speed signing. Entering Wakefield from Melrose, there's a regulatory 25 sign at the town line. About 100 feet beyond, there's a stand-alone advisory 30 plate. The stand-alone advisory 30 plates are then repeated at periodic intervals until the intersection with Main Street.
Quote from: NE2 on October 30, 2012, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: formulanone on October 30, 2012, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: roadfro on October 30, 2012, 05:34:08 AM
I've seen first hand the odd number effect in relation to timing.
Heh, I remember when TBS used to offset all their programming to begin at xx:05 or xx:35.
Yeah, an offset arms race is a little different.
I suppose TBS lost that battle.
I seem to recall a non-multiple-of-five speed limit on a truck weigh station in central Illinois, probably either I-64 or I-70 between Saint Louis and I-57 (or perhaps in another state entirely, as my memory of it is rather vague). Can anyone confirm that an oddball speed limit does exist at a truck weigh station?
Granted, it's located in a private area; but in Lynn, MA inside the GE complex, there were SPEED LIMIT 19 signs (in MUTCD-compliant style) posted everywhere along the internal (property-wise) roadway system circa the 1980s.
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
I seem to recall a non-multiple-of-five speed limit on a truck weigh station in central Illinois, probably either I-64 or I-70 between Saint Louis and I-57 (or perhaps in another state entirely, as my memory of it is rather vague). Can anyone confirm that an oddball speed limit does exist at a truck weigh station?
California has standard Speed Limit 3 signs, as well as advisory speeds of 1, 2, and 3.
Thanks for mentioning those GE plant signs. I'd forgotten about them, even though I grew up in Lynn and worked at the River Works complex (Engine Test Department) for a brief period in the mid-1980s.
How about this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=port+allen,+la&ll=30.455815,-91.248834&spn=0.001857,0.002411&hnear=Port+Allen,+West+Baton+Rouge,+Louisiana&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=30.455815,-91.248834&panoid=GacRt2oUFWqLh_ofsmbwow&cbp=12,261.39,,0,17.02
I've seen this one on my way to Baton Rouge many times. 14 1/2!
Roads inside the Hersheys Mill gated community subdivision in East Goshen Township (Chester County) PA has a posted speed limit of 27 mph.
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
I seem to recall a non-multiple-of-five speed limit on a truck weigh station in central Illinois, probably either I-64 or I-70 between Saint Louis and I-57 (or perhaps in another state entirely, as my memory of it is rather vague). Can anyone confirm that an oddball speed limit does exist at a truck weigh station?
I've seen weigh stations in California where empty trucks use one lane and the speed limit is 5 mph, while loaded trucks use another lane and the speed limit is 3 mph.
I couldn't think of a better place to put this.
On US 52:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7013973,-82.2987784,3a,74.9y,10.59h,82.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIhM-W6u5YJrpl-1ZzzghFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7162495,-82.3091349,3a,23.7y,340.16h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scAuuI2Cn50t5qWbxy3vAug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
The speed limit drops from 65 to 55 on US 52 for all of 0.8 miles as in crosses into Kentucky.
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 28, 2012, 10:13:51 PM
Maryland has had a few work zones with no reduction in speed on I-95, where the speed limit is 65. This has been done even with lane closures. Of course, both work zones had speed cameras.
That's the one saving grace with Maryland's photo enforcement - the speed limit often doesn't decrease (the biggest exception seems to be 70 MPH zones, where the speed limit is cut to 60 MPH).
Quote from: MASTERNC on June 23, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 28, 2012, 10:13:51 PM
Maryland has had a few work zones with no reduction in speed on I-95, where the speed limit is 65. This has been done even with lane closures. Of course, both work zones had speed cameras.
That's the one saving grace with Maryland's photo enforcement - the speed limit often doesn't decrease (the biggest exception seems to be 70 MPH zones, where the speed limit is cut to 60 MPH).
I recall a reduced 55 mph work zone on I-81 last year
with photo enforcement... then there's instances like 55 mph work zone photo enforcement limits on I-495 or I-695, where, technically the limit isn't reduced, but given the de facto limit is 65 or 70 mph (seriously, what is killing them to increase the speed limit on the Beltways? Traffic flows no differently on the 65 mph segments vs. the 55 mph segments in the Baltimore-Washington metro) and the flow is 75-80 mph, almost acts as one as everyone slams on their brakes to keep it under 65 mph (the 10 mph grace zone) through those areas.
Ohio uses variable speed limits in work zones nowadays, and when there's no one working or the lane alterations aren't that much, they sometimes keep the "work zone" speed limit at 70 mph.
Speed Limit 55 in a school zone, taken along US 49 near Beaumont, MS
(https://i.imgur.com/89M4mhl.png)
US 49 through here is a four lane divided highway with a speed limit of 65 MPH, so I guess I can kinda understand this but this still seems really fast for being in a school zone.
Quote from: TBKS1 on June 23, 2021, 08:42:01 PM
Speed Limit 55 in a school zone, taken along US 49 near Beaumont, MS
(https://i.imgur.com/89M4mhl.png)
US 49 through here is a four lane divided highway with a speed limit of 65 MPH, so I guess I can kinda understand this but this still seems really fast for being in a school zone.
It is a divided highway I guess.
Since this thread has been revived, I'll chime in.
I went past a school zone 25 mph speed limit sign with a "when flashing" signal this week. It was placed before the signalized crosswalk that would be used by neighborhood kids across the arterial road from the school, so that made sense. But then just as you get to the school driveway, there is a regular 35 mph speed limit sign. So the school limit doesn't apply in front of the school itself? That makes little sense. IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
Then later this week I went past another school with a 25 mph sign and it was flashing. Um, school's been out for a couple weeks now. Who is supposed to turn that off? I slowed down anyway, just in case one of our finest was a little behind on writing tickets.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Then later this week I went past another school with a 25 mph sign and it was flashing. Um, school's been out for a couple weeks now. Who is supposed to turn that off? I slowed down anyway, just in case one of our finest was a little behind on writing tickets.
I remember a few years ago I was driving through Albuquerque and it seemed every single school zone light was flashing ... despite it being the day after Thanksgiving. It's even worse there because a lot of the school zone speed limits are 15 mph.
In many areas of the Salt Lake City metro area, the crossing guards still manually turn on the flashing lights.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Since this thread has been revived, I'll chime in.
I went past a school zone 25 mph speed limit sign with a "when flashing" signal this week. It was placed before the signalized crosswalk that would be used by neighborhood kids across the arterial road from the school, so that made sense. But then just as you get to the school driveway, there is a regular 35 mph speed limit sign. So the school limit doesn't apply in front of the school itself? That makes little sense. IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
MUTCD has guidelines to what a school zone is. It definitely includes all the school property and a little bit beyond.
The MUTCD also has "end school zone" signs, so conceivably you could put a regular speed limit sign in the middle of the school zone, and it wouldn't mean anything if the school zone was in effect at that time. However, "end school zones" don't seem to be posted all that consistently, with most places still using the older method of just posting a regular sign, so they're presently of limited benefit.
What level schools do school zones end at? Middle School? High School?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 24, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
What level schools do school zones end at? Middle School? High School?
High School I guess? I see them frequently near high schools, and they're nonexistent near college campuses.
Quote from: US 89 on June 24, 2021, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Then later this week I went past another school with a 25 mph sign and it was flashing. Um, school's been out for a couple weeks now. Who is supposed to turn that off? I slowed down anyway, just in case one of our finest was a little behind on writing tickets.
I remember a few years ago I was driving through Albuquerque and it seemed every single school zone light was flashing ... despite it being the day after Thanksgiving. It's even worse there because a lot of the school zone speed limits are 15 mph.
In many areas of the Salt Lake City metro area, the crossing guards still manually turn on the flashing lights.
Oh you just reminded me about when I drove south down US 491 in NM. It seemed like at every crossroads, the speed limit would drop from down to 45 or even 35, only to resume 55 after the junction. I couldn't find an example on google, but i distinctly remember how annoying it was driving in NM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2021, 01:17:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 24, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
What level schools do school zones end at? Middle School? High School?
High School I guess? I see them frequently near high schools, and they're nonexistent near college campuses.
I don't think that there is one near Needham High School.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Since this thread has been revived, I'll chime in.
I went past a school zone 25 mph speed limit sign with a "when flashing" signal this week. It was placed before the signalized crosswalk that would be used by neighborhood kids across the arterial road from the school, so that made sense. But then just as you get to the school driveway, there is a regular 35 mph speed limit sign. So the school limit doesn't apply in front of the school itself? That makes little sense. IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
Then later this week I went past another school with a 25 mph sign and it was flashing. Um, school's been out for a couple weeks now. Who is supposed to turn that off? I slowed down anyway, just in case one of our finest was a little behind on writing tickets.
There is definitely a bit of a problem with the way the signs are posted. If a school zone sign is posted, a regular speed limit sign should not be posted until after you clear the school's property. And similarly with advisory speed limits, a regular speed limit should not be posted between the advisory speed limit warning of a curve and the curve itself. A regular speed limit should be signed after clearing the curve.
If a school zone speed limit is in place all the time it should just be a regular speed limit sign.
Quote from: Big John on June 24, 2021, 12:29:31 PM
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Since this thread has been revived, I'll chime in.
I went past a school zone 25 mph speed limit sign with a "when flashing" signal this week. It was placed before the signalized crosswalk that would be used by neighborhood kids across the arterial road from the school, so that made sense. But then just as you get to the school driveway, there is a regular 35 mph speed limit sign. So the school limit doesn't apply in front of the school itself? That makes little sense. IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
MUTCD has guidelines to what a school zone is. It definitely includes all the school property and a little bit beyond.
It's pretty vague, though. I don't think it has to include anything in particular.
QuoteSchool Zone–a designated roadway segment approaching, adjacent to, and beyond school buildings or grounds, or along which school related activities occur.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Since this thread has been revived, I'll chime in.
I went past a school zone 25 mph speed limit sign with a "when flashing" signal this week. It was placed before the signalized crosswalk that would be used by neighborhood kids across the arterial road from the school, so that made sense. But then just as you get to the school driveway, there is a regular 35 mph speed limit sign. So the school limit doesn't apply in front of the school itself? That makes little sense. IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
I could name numerous schools in my county where the next signalized intersection would be several miles down the road. You may be correct in a city environment, but most schools are in more rural/suburban intersections where most intersections don't have traffic lights.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
Then later this week I went past another school with a 25 mph sign and it was flashing. Um, school's been out for a couple weeks now. Who is supposed to turn that off? I slowed down anyway, just in case one of our finest was a little behind on writing tickets.
I imagine the controllers in those signs are pretty basic, much like a digital thermostat: The Day of Week and Time can be set, but little else. It takes someone going out there to turn it off manually. And they definitely won't do it for a single day off or a week's winter/spring break.
I would suspect that if a cop is issuing tickets when school isn't in session, that's gonna be a news making item real quick. I've never heard of this being an issue.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 11:19:12 PM
I would suspect that if a cop is issuing tickets when school isn't in session, that's gonna be a news making item real quick. I've never heard of this being an issue.
I wouldn't put it past them. I got a ticket once for parking in front of my house in a "snow emergency" when the street had already been plowed. (I couldn't get into the driveway because of the mound of snow, and hadn't had time to shovel it out yet.) Yes, that ticket got rescinded, but I had to go down to the police station to do so. The lieutenant in charge wasn't amused.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 11:19:12 PM
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 09:09:15 AM
IMO the school zone should apply until the next signalized intersection where kids coming from the other direction would be crossing.
I could name numerous schools in my county where the next signalized intersection would be several miles down the road. You may be correct in a city environment, but most schools are in more rural/suburban intersections where most intersections don't have traffic lights.
Yes, in this case it was only a matter of about 3 blocks total.
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!
Really? Is it signed? 65 is crazy high for a minimum.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!
Really? Is it signed?
Yes.
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:12:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!
Really? Is it signed?
Yes.
65 is too high for a minimum speed in my opinion, should be 45-55 in my opinion.
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
That's why I thought it was so strange. But, on the other hand, I'd rather those people not drive under 65 on a highway signed for 80 to begin with.
You sure? Oklahoma was speed limit 75 / minimum 50, then bumped to speed limit 80 / minimum 60
Texas has at least one 2 lane toll road in east Texas that's speed limit 75 / minimum 65 mph, however.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
Northeast states are 65 mph, but traffic flows 80+ mph. Those people are used to it. Not to mention, all the 70-75 mph zones as you drive west will accustom you if you're not.
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
That's why I thought it was so strange. But, on the other hand, I'd rather those people not drive under 65 on a highway signed for 80 to begin with.
Ever driven with a slower semi truck on the road? A lot will keep it 55-65 mph.
Are there any road-worthy vehicles truly incapable of at least 65 in 2021? I get that minimum speed limits need to consider all road vehicles, but I genuinely can't think of any vehicle that couldn't hit at least 65. Apart from those vehicles towing very heavy loads not really designed to be doing so. Hopefully they'd know to stay off an 80-mph freeway...
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 08, 2021, 08:55:54 PM
Ever driven with a slower semi truck on the road? A lot will keep it 55-65 mph.
Don't the slower ones have speed governors preventing them from going faster?
I wonder if there is a minimum speed grace period, like would you get pulled over for doing 60?
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 08, 2021, 08:52:32 PM
You sure? Oklahoma was speed limit 75 / minimum 50, then bumped to speed limit 80 / minimum 60
OK, now I'm second-guessing myself.
Here is a 75/60 speed limit sign for you. (https://goo.gl/maps/niH74knxww2rScTP6)
Here is another. (https://goo.gl/maps/YtV4Wfy1Zaom9Bk79) However, this highway did not bump up to 80. Perhaps the highways that did bump up to 80 weren't similar. Serves me right for assuming, I guess.
^ I did not realize some 75 mph zones had a minimum speed limit of 60 mph. There's also 75 mph zones with a 50 minimum, which is what I was thinking of.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 09, 2021, 02:16:48 AM
^ I did not realize some 75 mph zones had a minimum speed limit of 60 mph. There's also 75 mph zones with a 50 minimum, which is what I was thinking of.
And I was mis-remembering anyway. I remembered being on a freeway with a 15mph speed differential, and I remembered being on a freeway with an 80mph speed limit, but my mind skipped over the fact that they weren't the same freeway (I-44 in OK, I-10 in TX).
The turnpike nearest my house is 80/60.
(https://i.imgur.com/Zf9dPp9.jpg)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
If you can't handle doing 65, keep your ass out of our way and off our turnpikes. Every turnpike has plenty of conventional roads near it you can piddle around on.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
Yeah...I don't think many in the Northeast have an issue going over 65. If anything, there's quite a number of people going well above 65 at distances much closer than normally advised in the crowded northeast.
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
You're missing the fact that regardless of what is posted on the sign, traffic is going to flow 80-85 mph in rural areas, and 70-75 mph in urban areas. Speed limits should be posted high where they can be safely be so, as opposed to blanket 55 mph in urban areas and 65 mph in rural areas. Reasonable speed limits will lead to more compliance, more uniform traffic flow (people traveling a reasonable speed won't be flying way faster than the one trying to drive the speed limit - actually improved safety with a higher limit), and easier to target the worst offenders as opposed to everyone driving 15-20 mph over (simply doing a normal speed) regularly. Additionally, I've noticed driving in these higher areas recently, when the speed drops from, say, 75 mph to 70 mph, people actually will slow down slightly. As opposed to a blanket 70 mph limit that holds as it enters an urban area, people just keep doing 80-85 mph because they've been doing that and are less respectful to an artificial limit.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.
That's because it's per capita. We need data per vehicle mile traveled.
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2021, 06:19:40 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.
That's because it's per capita. We need data per vehicle mile traveled.
On paper, that is true. In practice and looking at how VMT is estimated, the numbers are questionable.
Of course, if we gave up the gas tax for VMT tax, the data could be made more accurate.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 11, 2021, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
You're missing the fact that regardless of what is posted on the sign, traffic is going to flow 80-85 mph in rural areas, and 70-75 mph in urban areas. Speed limits should be posted high where they can be safely be so, as opposed to blanket 55 mph in urban areas and 65 mph in rural areas. Reasonable speed limits will lead to more compliance, more uniform traffic flow (people traveling a reasonable speed won't be flying way faster than the one trying to drive the speed limit - actually improved safety with a higher limit), and easier to target the worst offenders as opposed to everyone driving 15-20 mph over (simply doing a normal speed) regularly. Additionally, I've noticed driving in these higher areas recently, when the speed drops from, say, 75 mph to 70 mph, people actually will slow down slightly. As opposed to a blanket 70 mph limit that holds as it enters an urban area, people just keep doing 80-85 mph because they've been doing that and are less respectful to an artificial limit.
Nah, I'm not missing anything. And you don't have the real facts.
First, you have nothing to back up your speeds. In many cases, if someone is going 85, they have a false tendency to think that's an average speed, even if they are passing everyone else (showing they're going *above* the average). NJDOT reports yearly on speeds on certain parts of their roadway system. Average speeds on their 65 mph highways which tend to be free-flowing are generally around 75 mph; 85th percentiles are in the upper 70s, and in one or two instances may hit a little over 80.
But *everyone* going 15-20 mph over? False narrative, unless you can back that up with something more than your momentary observation.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.
There's also a difference between accidents and fatal accidents. Low density states tend to have more fatals because people can consistently drive at higher speeds, so when they do crash there's a higher tendency the crash will result in a fatal. In the Northeast, more people crash, but generally at slower speeds. Many often go unreported to the police at the time, as many insurance claims don't have police reports or reports written up after the fact.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 23, 2021, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on June 23, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 28, 2012, 10:13:51 PM
Maryland has had a few work zones with no reduction in speed on I-95, where the speed limit is 65. This has been done even with lane closures. Of course, both work zones had speed cameras.
That's the one saving grace with Maryland's photo enforcement - the speed limit often doesn't decrease (the biggest exception seems to be 70 MPH zones, where the speed limit is cut to 60 MPH).
I recall a reduced 55 mph work zone on I-81 last year with photo enforcement... then there's instances like 55 mph work zone photo enforcement limits on I-495 or I-695, where, technically the limit isn't reduced, but given the de facto limit is 65 or 70 mph (seriously, what is killing them to increase the speed limit on the Beltways? Traffic flows no differently on the 65 mph segments vs. the 55 mph segments in the Baltimore-Washington metro) and the flow is 75-80 mph, almost acts as one as everyone slams on their brakes to keep it under 65 mph (the 10 mph grace zone) through those areas.
The I-81 speed limit matched the widening project in West Virginia, which has a 55 MPH work zone speed limit.
Saw a work zone speed limit of 75 mph on SH-130 (speed limit 85 mph) today, which then soon after reduced to 65 mph and down to one narrow lane and barrier for some bridge construction / rehabilitation.
The roughly 20 mile segment of SH-130 between US-290 and SH-71 further north is still reduced to 70 mph (from 80 mph) despite the widening project being virtually complete and all 6 lanes open throughout. Traffic, however, was still moving 80-85 mph.
So, it's now legal to go 240mph in Nashville, at least for this weekend. :sombrero:
https://twitter.com/rinusveekay/status/1423418205436059651
10 mph. Ten.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3573804,-71.1129666,3a,74.4y,227.55h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scaw8KGpY4SwNYEQtuUW3pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
(was part of a pilot program that failed; is no longer the case)
Quote from: 1 on November 16, 2021, 10:48:57 AM
10 mph. Ten.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3573804,-71.1129666,3a,74.4y,227.55h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scaw8KGpY4SwNYEQtuUW3pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
(was part of a pilot program that failed; is no longer the case)
What are they sharing it with, sheep?
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 16, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
It's not really as fast (100 km/h, 60 mph), but A-20's railroad crossing is on a freeway: https://goo.gl/maps/T9PzuevGjech2ath9
One spot that
does have an equal speed limit (110km/h, 70 mph), though, is on NB-2 in Moncton: https://goo.gl/maps/ZRfPa2ahs8YKR6iW7
It's not the only crossing on NB-2 near Moncton either: https://goo.gl/maps/GDbuTAcHr8jT6MtN7
I can't confirm if these crossings are terribly active, though.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 16, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 16, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
It's not really as fast (100 km/h, 60 mph), but A-20's railroad crossing is on a freeway: https://goo.gl/maps/T9PzuevGjech2ath9
One spot that does have an equal speed limit (110km/h, 70 mph), though, is on NB-2 in Moncton: https://goo.gl/maps/ZRfPa2ahs8YKR6iW7
It's not the only crossing on NB-2 near Moncton either: https://goo.gl/maps/GDbuTAcHr8jT6MtN7
I can't confirm if these crossings are terribly active, though.
Hmm, I was just on NB2 and I didn't remember that. Thanks!
There used to be a RR crossing on US-131 north of Kalamazoo, but that one was taken out long ago. And for years before it was removed, there were no trains. There was some legal reason to keep the crossing marked - maybe as long as the right of way was still RR property or something.
This one is at least still marked on the KS Railroad Map.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MH6PmNDr/KS-Railroad.png)
Just saw a 70 MPH work zone on YouTube outside of Salt Lake City (down from 80 MPH) on I-80. There was a lane closure with shifts.
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 16, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
There are 75 mph roads in Texas with railroad crossings, e.g. US 90 east of Brackettville: https://goo.gl/maps/EF6R1DXFMsnTemmL8
Here's a 70 mph grade crossing in Montana, without even gates! https://goo.gl/maps/YgKmhzSmweNUAaxT7
Here's a 70 mph exempt grade crossing in Idaho: https://goo.gl/maps/BmHbZFf1MsreXrgS8
I'm willing to bet there are some in Nevada, Wyoming, and/or Oklahoma too, though no examples immediately come to mind.
I figured it someone was higher, it would be Texas for sure. Just don't know how you're supposed to slow down that quickly if there actually is a train.
An oldie but goodie (no photo alas): for a time, part of I-395 in D.C. had a work zone speed limit of 45mph, higher than the regular speed limit (posted in that zone) of 40mph.
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 06, 2021, 01:37:37 PM
I figured it someone was higher, it would be Texas for sure. Just don't know how you're supposed to slow down that quickly if there actually is a train.
Based on my experience driving around Texas, the answer seems to just be pay close attention and have good brakes.
This is a state that will post 75 mph through a traffic signal after all!
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 06, 2021, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 16, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
<...>
I'm willing to bet there are some in Nevada, Wyoming, and/or Oklahoma too, though no examples immediately come to mind.
Did a little Googling, since I was curious.
Here's some examples of high-speed railroad crossings in Nevada, although I'm not sure how active all these crossings are... But all are on two-lane highways somewhat in the middle of nowhere.
US 95 Alt north of Yerington (https://goo.gl/maps/fLHwTBvvg9mPnGaQ8) (60 mph)
US 95 Alt near Ft Churchill State Park (https://goo.gl/maps/Q5U6TgUmiV6bUFVD9) (65 or 70 mph)
US 50 just east of Silver Springs (https://goo.gl/maps/faPGmqsezz4w9Eyc7) (65 mph)
US 95 just east of Hawthorne (https://goo.gl/maps/gxYSL7xhg1NbKeaG7) (70 mph): This one is an exempt crossing, as the rail line is within Hawthorne Army Depot on either side of the highway and isn't active. (Interestingly, the most recent Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/5xMpBqAvXNHzbX9A6) has one of the crossing arms swung away from the highway and another completely down and outside the ROW fence.)
US 93 south of Wells (https://goo.gl/maps/1KQ4dtgt6E961H6TA) (70 mph): I'm guessing this crossing must be active enough to have some issues, because it has "prepare to stop when flashing" (https://goo.gl/maps/qDCM9yHRihMUbKnm9) beacons well in advance of the crossing in each direction (I've not seen beacons like this in person elsewhere in Nevada for a grade crossing).
And an interesting case: US 93 north of Ely (https://goo.gl/maps/PBeBRuiWojjKJDot5) (60 mph). These tracks are out of service, as indicated by these signs (https://goo.gl/maps/UgPkNjdDML8cq5XX7) that seem to have been put up in place of the RR warning sign. They kinda halfway removed the crossing infrastructure...advance pavement markings and crossing signals were not removed, but the crossbucks and gate arms were.
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 16, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Driving back from KC a couple weekends ago, just outside of Garden City, US50/400 crosses a functional railroad track (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0035175,-100.9292862,3a,75y,277.99h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLdtFIBh0DvFfI9rPeDrNJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m2!1e2!1e4) at 70 mph. Are there any other instances of this (or higher)?
Quote from: roadfro on December 12, 2021, 02:27:19 PM
Did a little Googling, since I was curious.
Here's some examples of high-speed railroad crossings in Nevada, although I'm not sure how active all these crossings are... But all are on two-lane highways somewhat in the middle of nowhere.
US 95 Alt north of Yerington (https://goo.gl/maps/fLHwTBvvg9mPnGaQ8) (60 mph)
US 95 Alt near Ft Churchill State Park (https://goo.gl/maps/Q5U6TgUmiV6bUFVD9) (65 or 70 mph)
US 50 just east of Silver Springs (https://goo.gl/maps/faPGmqsezz4w9Eyc7) (65 mph)
US 95 just east of Hawthorne (https://goo.gl/maps/gxYSL7xhg1NbKeaG7) (70 mph): This one is an exempt crossing, as the rail line is within Hawthorne Army Depot on either side of the highway and isn't active. (Interestingly, the most recent Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/5xMpBqAvXNHzbX9A6) has one of the crossing arms swung away from the highway and another completely down and outside the ROW fence.)
US 93 south of Wells (https://goo.gl/maps/1KQ4dtgt6E961H6TA) (70 mph): I'm guessing this crossing must be active enough to have some issues, because it has "prepare to stop when flashing" (https://goo.gl/maps/qDCM9yHRihMUbKnm9) beacons well in advance of the crossing in each direction (I've not seen beacons like this in person elsewhere in Nevada for a grade crossing).
And an interesting case: US 93 north of Ely (https://goo.gl/maps/PBeBRuiWojjKJDot5) (60 mph). These tracks are out of service, as indicated by these signs (https://goo.gl/maps/UgPkNjdDML8cq5XX7) that seem to have been put up in place of the RR warning sign. They kinda halfway removed the crossing infrastructure...advance pavement markings and crossing signals were not removed, but the crossbucks and gate arms were.
It's pretty gutsy for any DOT to post speeds over 55MPH over a railroad crossing, because it's nearly impossible to maintain the relative elevation of both the railroad tracks and the highway over time. All of these have modern concrete panel crossing surfaces with a reinforced flangeway (plus a derailment flangeway).
The gravel/rock (called "ballast") underneath the track (and the crossing panel) is intended to allow water to drain, so some drainage will roll through the crossing itself. That gets dirty over time, and the standard maintenance approach is to add more ballast thereby raising the elevation of the track by a few inches every so often. The railroad pulls the crossing panels up, lays down new ballast, compacts it all and puts the crossing panels back down. You can see the results on the one on US 93 south of Wells. I would hate to hit that one at 70MPH with a loose load.
Huh. I thought RR crossings on rural "expressways" were common, with speed limits of 55 mph or higher.
Quote from: Rothman on December 12, 2021, 04:55:59 PM
Huh. I thought RR crossings on rural "expressways" were common, with speed limits of 55 mph or higher.
Yes, there are many out west. Not sure how many are left here on the East Coast. My railroading career was still under the National Maximum Speed Law (55MPH), so I never worked on any of them. Pretty much all of my crossings that were on routes that could have been upgraded have either been grade separated, or in many cases, the routes were relocated onto higher-speed bypasses. Here in North Carolina, the NCDOT Rail Division has a high priority on such crossings and may have already eliminated all of them.
There are three issues here. Higher speed tracks (mainlines) are subject to tight horizontal and vertical tolerances, which require frequent inspection and corrective action when needed. Heavy tonnage tracks (typically mainlines) get lots off wear-and-tear, but are subject to tighter maintenance standards. Low tonnage tracks and/or slow speed tracks don't require the same level of maintenance. The first two categories get "pulled up out of the mud", which creates an elevation change with respect to the grade crossings. The third category gets "mushy" and the crossing panels won't stay where they were placed. Since the states are financially responsible for maintenance of the crossing (not the railroads), the DOTs in those states can schedule more frequent crossing panel maintenance on higher speed routes.
NC-148 C.F. Harvey Pkwy crosses tracks outside at Kinston on 60 mph divided highway.
Something strange with the speed limit on I-95 North in New Hampshire I have noticed ever since they did construction on the Piscataqua River Bridge... the speed limit is already 55 MPH (89 km/h) a bit south of Exit 3 and remains 55 (89) up till the end of the bridge approach in Maine. However, due to bridge construction, there's a sign before Exit 7 saying "Work Speed Limit 55 MPH Ahead"... but the normal speed limit is already 55 (89) before the work zone.
Is that orange warning sign required anyways because although the speed limit for both normal and work zone is 55 (89), they need to explicitly state it as it is transitioning from normal to work zone speed limit? Been wondering if they could omit the warning sign and just put the Work Zone Speed Limit regulatory signs at the next time it's signed, in this case, after the exit 7 on-ramp and just put the normal "ROAD WORK AHEAD" warning signs before Exit 7.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on December 13, 2021, 09:21:26 PM
Something strange with the speed limit on I-95 North in New Hampshire I have noticed ever since they did construction on the Piscataqua River Bridge... the speed limit is already 55 MPH (89 km/h) a bit south of Exit 3 and remains 55 (89) up till the end of the bridge approach in Maine. However, due to bridge construction, there's a sign before Exit 7 saying "Work Speed Limit 55 MPH Ahead"... but the normal speed limit is already 55 (89) before the work zone.
Is that orange warning sign required anyways because although the speed limit for both normal and work zone is 55 (89), they need to explicitly state it as it is transitioning from normal to work zone speed limit? Been wondering if they could omit the warning sign and just put the Work Zone Speed Limit regulatory signs at the next time it's signed, in this case, after the exit 7 on-ramp and just put the normal "ROAD WORK AHEAD" warning signs before Exit 7.
New Hampshire has a habit of just posting standard work zone signs whether they're necessary or not. When I drove through Franconia Notch, right from where the road would normally widen back to two lanes was a series of work zones chained together. Each one had "left lane closed [distance]" and "left lane closed/merge right" signs despite the fact that there was no left lane open at any point between entering the Notch and leaving the last work zone.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on December 13, 2021, 09:21:26 PM
Something strange with the speed limit on I-95 North in New Hampshire I have noticed ever since they did construction on the Piscataqua River Bridge... the speed limit is already 55 MPH (89 km/h) a bit south of Exit 3 and remains 55 (89) up till the end of the bridge approach in Maine. However, due to bridge construction, there's a sign before Exit 7 saying "Work Speed Limit 55 MPH Ahead"... but the normal speed limit is already 55 (89) before the work zone.
Is that orange warning sign required anyways because although the speed limit for both normal and work zone is 55 (89), they need to explicitly state it as it is transitioning from normal to work zone speed limit? Been wondering if they could omit the warning sign and just put the Work Zone Speed Limit regulatory signs at the next time it's signed, in this case, after the exit 7 on-ramp and just put the normal "ROAD WORK AHEAD" warning signs before Exit 7.
There's probably some legal thing about that (double fine zone?) that makes the signage necessary.
VDOT is currently doing that along the HRBT construction zone in Norfolk and Hampton. The default speed limit was already 55 mph, but now the corridor is lined with Work Zone / Fines Higher signage and the 55 mph limit.
Last summer when I was in Montana on I-94 there were one or two 35 MPH work zones on an 80 MPH road. The work was intensive enough to warrant a speed reduction in my view but 35 felt more than excessively low. A 50 or 55 MPH zone would probably have been fine for the work involved. Because of the lack of traffic density I was nervous about getting plowed into from behind by someone who didn't notice/didn't care.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 13, 2021, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: fwydriver405 on December 13, 2021, 09:21:26 PM
Something strange with the speed limit on I-95 North in New Hampshire I have noticed ever since they did construction on the Piscataqua River Bridge... the speed limit is already 55 MPH (89 km/h) a bit south of Exit 3 and remains 55 (89) up till the end of the bridge approach in Maine. However, due to bridge construction, there's a sign before Exit 7 saying "Work Speed Limit 55 MPH Ahead"... but the normal speed limit is already 55 (89) before the work zone.
Is that orange warning sign required anyways because although the speed limit for both normal and work zone is 55 (89), they need to explicitly state it as it is transitioning from normal to work zone speed limit? Been wondering if they could omit the warning sign and just put the Work Zone Speed Limit regulatory signs at the next time it's signed, in this case, after the exit 7 on-ramp and just put the normal "ROAD WORK AHEAD" warning signs before Exit 7.
There's probably some legal thing about that (double fine zone?) that makes the signage necessary.
I definitely think it's related to legal requirements for the work zone.
In Nevada, just about every traffic violation in a work zone can be subject to double penalties according to state law. However, the work zone must be marked with signage indicating "Double penalties in work zones" and the beginning and ending of the work zone in order for the doubled penalty to be enforced. Generally just after the "begin work zone" signs, there's a speed limit sign posted temporarily (even though Nevada doesn't typically use a "work zone speed" or similar banner), so that (often reduced) speed becomes double penalty enforceable.
My guess is that the state may have a legal requirement that a work zone speed be clearly posted as such in order for any increased fines or penalties to apply.
Quote from: roadfro on December 14, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 13, 2021, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: fwydriver405 on December 13, 2021, 09:21:26 PM
Something strange with the speed limit on I-95 North in New Hampshire I have noticed ever since they did construction on the Piscataqua River Bridge... the speed limit is already 55 MPH (89 km/h) a bit south of Exit 3 and remains 55 (89) up till the end of the bridge approach in Maine. However, due to bridge construction, there's a sign before Exit 7 saying "Work Speed Limit 55 MPH Ahead"... but the normal speed limit is already 55 (89) before the work zone.
Is that orange warning sign required anyways because although the speed limit for both normal and work zone is 55 (89), they need to explicitly state it as it is transitioning from normal to work zone speed limit? Been wondering if they could omit the warning sign and just put the Work Zone Speed Limit regulatory signs at the next time it's signed, in this case, after the exit 7 on-ramp and just put the normal "ROAD WORK AHEAD" warning signs before Exit 7.
There's probably some legal thing about that (double fine zone?) that makes the signage necessary.
I definitely think it's related to legal requirements for the work zone.
In Nevada, just about every traffic violation in a work zone can be subject to double penalties according to state law. However, the work zone must be marked with signage indicating "Double penalties in work zones" and the beginning and ending of the work zone in order for the doubled penalty to be enforced. Generally just after the "begin work zone" signs, there's a speed limit sign posted temporarily (even though Nevada doesn't typically use a "work zone speed" or similar banner), so that (often reduced) speed becomes double penalty enforceable.
My guess is that the state may have a legal requirement that a work zone speed be clearly posted as such in order for any increased fines or penalties to apply.
That would explain the speed limit on I-95, but not the lane closure signage I mentioned on I-93 (note the already coned off left lane in the second picture):
https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i93&state=NH&file=101_2170.JPG
https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i93&state=NH&file=101_2175.JPG
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.1953467,-96.2447184,3a,75y,0.43h,86.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfeJT02DbD_x-xTYBGtio-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Speed limit 50 mph, work zone speed limit 65 mph.
The real reason, is the actual frontage road limit is 50 mph, but since it's being used as the temporary mainline, it is allowed to move at 65 mph. Still a very interesting sign combination. It's also striped as 3 lanes each way, when the final configuration will be 2 main lanes and 2 frontage road lanes in each direction.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60. Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
Much of Oklahoma is likely fine with outsiders being uncomfortable.