As a spinoff of the "Only in this State" thread, what practices have you seen in one state that you would like to see other states use?
For one, I actually like Illinois' practice of using secondary control cities for interstates on lesser-traveled interchanges. I'd actually go one further and add the secondary to the primary. On I-65, for example, ramps south of State Road 2 could use Gary-Chicago for North and Lafayette-Indianapolis for South.
I also like the Michigan Left. Unfortunately, there isn't enough space for the roads that need them the most in my area (namely, U.S. 30) to justify constructing them.
As always, I give advance thanks for your responses.
I wish other states would use the oversized No Passing Zone pennants that Minnesota has. A lot of states don't even have the NPZ signs to begin with, let alone the smaller version of it.
I like this practice that's common in California and rare here in Washington: On urban arterials, posting a big green sign midblock with the names of the upcoming cross streets. It means you don't have to slow down and possibly delay other traffic in order to read the little street sign when you get to the intersection.
Cutout state and US shields like California, and the banning of Clearview like Massachusetts.
I wish Arkansas would raise their speed limit on rural 2 lane highways to 65 like Oklahoma and other states.
I'm sure Florida isn't the only state that does this, but over on Florida SR 50 they have supplemental street name signs beneath county road shields. I'd like to see New York add them, specifically Suffolk County New York. I can see some places where such signs would be necessary.
Quote from: kkt on December 30, 2012, 02:13:43 PM
I like this practice that's common in California and rare here in Washington: On urban arterials, posting a big green sign midblock with the names of the upcoming cross streets. It means you don't have to slow down and possibly delay other traffic in order to read the little street sign when you get to the intersection.
I've seen this done a few other places, but it usually seems to be done at the municipal level, rather than the state level, and sometimes only on specific arterials targeted for improvements.
Quote from: stridentweasel on December 30, 2012, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 30, 2012, 02:13:43 PM
I like this practice that's common in California and rare here in Washington: On urban arterials, posting a big green sign midblock with the names of the upcoming cross streets. It means you don't have to slow down and possibly delay other traffic in order to read the little street sign when you get to the intersection.
I've seen this done a few other places, but it usually seems to be done at the municipal level, rather than the state level, and sometimes only on specific arterials targeted for improvements.
The only other state I've seen it done consistently in is Michigan. Illinois is hit or miss as to whether they exist.
More than you want to know about these signs: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/09029/
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2012, 04:20:15 PM
More than you want to know about these signs: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/09029/
Thanks for posting the link. Briefly, posting the advance street name signs resulted in a small but statistically significant reduction in sideswipe collisions. Such signs are especially recommended for arterials with high AADT, 3-legged intersections along the major road, and intersections with high crash rates.
I wish every state would use the same BGS border style that NJ uses. Call it homerism, but I believe it's closest to the spirit of the MUTCD.
I think more states should use more jughandles. As reviled as they are, with proper signage they can be a great help, as they can simplify signal phasing and increase through green time in congested areas. Just provide advance signage that left turns will be done via a right-hand ramp.
"Jersey freeways" - eliminate all grade crossings on a boulevard/arterial but continue to allow driveway access. This tends to work best for major commercial corridors, especially when they double as commuter routes during AM and PM hours.
The "EXCEPT RIGHT TURN" sign below STOP signs has made it to the MUTCD, and it's something I've only ever seen in PA. The school bus graphical sign I first saw in WV has also made it to the MUTCD with some modification. So there are two examples of practices that did make it to the big-time.
Unlike many of these posts, I'll post practical stuff. Not personal pipe dream stuff like cut-out shields or button-copy Highway Gothic signs.
- Traffic Signals on side post ~ Illinois and California does this. It's rare for other states to do it, unless there's only one signal on the mast arm. The only times I've gone through a red light was sitting behind a big rig truck at a traffic intersection.
- Cheaper Versions of WSDOT's Variable Speed Zones ~ Washington has variable speed zones much like the Netherlands; however, they use $120,000 LED monitors that is meant for something in Time's Square or Vegas. While it's fancy and shows the speed in a FHWA Highway Gothic font, it's not worth that much money for an entire road. It shouldn't cost as much as an interchange to install 6 overhead gantries with those.
- City Limit Signs with Elevation/Population ~ I know California does this. I'm sure some states and random municipalities do it as well. I think it's a cool tidbit of information that the driver could have. Gives a sense of judgment on how traffic would be and how diverse services might be in that town or city.
- In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
Unlike many of these posts, I'll post practical stuff. Not personal pipe dream stuff like cut-out shields or button-copy Highway Gothic signs.
- City Limit Signs with Elevation/Population ~ I know California does this. I'm sure some states and random municipalities do it as well. I think it's a cool tidbit of information that the driver could have. Gives a sense of judgment on how traffic would be and how diverse services might be in that town or city.
- In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
1. In some areas, there's no point to having elevation on the signs. Illinois has population for incorporated municipalities (cities, villages, and towns), but elevation is useless given the fairly flat topography.
2. I see no point to those. It's winter, and it can snow anytime when the temperature is cold enough during October through April in this part of the country, and from September through May further north. Anywhere and everywhere is snow-prone during that time here.
Quote from: bugo on December 30, 2012, 03:02:38 PM
I wish Arkansas would raise their speed limit on rural 2 lane highways to 65 like Oklahoma and other states.
Michigan should. There are quite a few roads (pretty much any two-laner outside of a built-up area north of a line from Montague/Whitehall to Bay City, including the Upper Peninsula) that would be 65 in most western states.
I wished Alabama and Tennessee would make more use of upcoming exit distance signs on their freeways. You only see these signs in a few places in these states, and I find them very handy when keeping track of my exit. Missouri does an excellent job with this, IMO.
I would also love to see side-mount traffic signals for all intersections, especially left turn movements. The extra left-turn signal head would act as a redundant one in case the main one over the left turn lane goes out. Plus, as mentioned earlier, it would greatly improve visibility when there are a lot of big rigs.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
- In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
In Maryland and Virginia, icy roads are a possibility statewide - same holds true for every state along the Atlantic Coast to the north.
Nebraska's excellent junction diagram signs, posted ahead of major intersections.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Could you clarify what you mean by "blue ice indicators"? If it's just a different milemarker style in a snow-prone area, that doesn't convey much information not provided by "snow emergency route" or similar signs. Besides, icy roads are most dangerous in the places they're least likely, such as with the ice storm that paralyzed totally-unprepared San Antonio many years ago.
Quote from: oscar on December 30, 2012, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Could you clarify what you mean by "blue ice indicators"?
http://www.icealert.com/ I see them most often in store parking lots.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 30, 2012, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 30, 2012, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Could you clarify what you mean by "blue ice indicators"?
http://www.icealert.com/ I see them most often in store parking lots.
Just a temperature gauge, basically. How many cars don't have outside-temperature gauges?
My girlfriend's car displays "ICE POSSIBLE" on the instrument panel VFD any time the temperature is below 32.
In Portland where winter temperatures hover around freezing, people don't expect ice as much. What I meant is a place that can get snow but not too often. I think it should be in many urban areas.
Another practice I like is how New York uses directional suffixes exit numbers. (I.e. exit 21W)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 11:58:30 PM
Another practice I like is how New York uses directional suffixes exit numbers. (I.e. exit 21W)
CT uses them as well in some places (I-91/CT 3), in others they designate the exits as consecutive exit numbers I-84/CT 8, many exits off the Parkway). Only a mileage based exit system would bring consistency. I don't count NJ because those only designate exits off the Eastern and Western Spur of the NJTP, not actual directions.
"FREEWAY ENTRANCE" assemblies.
And Caltrans-style signs to deter wrong-way incursions at ramps exiting from freeways.
Virginia has a sign in its MUTCD supplement that I have not seen elsewhere which deserves to be cloned by other states - "INDUSTRIAL INTERSECTION."
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 11:58:30 PM
Another practice I like is how New York uses directional suffixes exit numbers. (I.e. exit 21W)
Theoretically they're not supposed to exist on mileage-based roads (for obvious reasons). That didn't stop region 7 from keeping them on their mileage-based road, though.
One of the few compliments I will give PennDOT is that the "No Turn On Red" sign is required to be within 10 feet of the traffic light signal head, either on the vertical or horizontal pole, making it very easy to see.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 30, 2012, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 30, 2012, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Could you clarify what you mean by "blue ice indicators"?
http://www.icealert.com/ I see them most often in store parking lots.
Many areas can go days, or have nightly lows with temps below freezing without any precipitation.
And 'snowy areas' probably isn't the best term. Motorists can clearly see snow and the reasonable ones will slow down.
What would be needed is something indicating black ice. And the indicator would need to be before the area where the black ice has formed.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on December 30, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
Unlike many of these posts, I'll post practical stuff. Not personal pipe dream stuff like cut-out shields or button-copy Highway Gothic signs.
- Traffic Signals on side post ~ Illinois and California does this. It's rare for other states to do it, unless there's only one signal on the mast arm. The only times I've gone through a red light was sitting behind a big rig truck at a traffic intersection.
- Cheaper Versions of WSDOT's Variable Speed Zones ~ Washington has variable speed zones much like the Netherlands; however, they use $120,000 LED monitors that is meant for something in Time's Square or Vegas. While it's fancy and shows the speed in a FHWA Highway Gothic font, it's not worth that much money for an entire road. It shouldn't cost as much as an interchange to install 6 overhead gantries with those.
- City Limit Signs with Elevation/Population ~ I know California does this. I'm sure some states and random municipalities do it as well. I think it's a cool tidbit of information that the driver could have. Gives a sense of judgment on how traffic would be and how diverse services might be in that town or city.
- In snow-prone areas, have blue ice indicators on mile markers ~ I actually don't know of a state that does this, but icy roads can be dangerous.
Traffic signals - Minnesota also does this.
Variable speed limits - I like the way Wyoming of all places does this. They have usually 2 or 3 sets of speed inside the sign that slide down and when the speed is different from normal good conditions, there is a flashing yellow that is also lit. http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2011/01/scr-variablespeedwydotsign.jpg I also though would like to see on urban area freeways, lane speed limits like the have in Europe.
Icy road - I like the idea of one of those indicators at every bridge and every 3 to 5 miles of freeway.
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas. Hardly ever in the city of Chicago except on Lake Shore Dr between Columbus Dr and Randolph St. It looks like these. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fgen3_zpseca253e7.png&hash=400de63731ae6584fad0021896cec57deb54e2c4)
Green streetsigns on signals with both the "local name" and the route number Illinois does this mainly in Chicagoland like this on in Lockport at IL 171/State St and IL 7/9th St. http://www.landmarks.org/hcih/images/933-935-Sout-State-Street_Lockport-lg.jpg or like this one in Aurora. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1404&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=qtbstW_D3J30PM:&imgrefurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/state/il25kane.html&docid=3ff70Aeik0CzxM&imgurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/il25broad.jpg&w=414&h=279&ei=EurhUIzCKofj2QXw64CwCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=788&vpy=236&dur=823&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=140&ty=95&sig=114410953852498010262&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0,i:169
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road
I like the concept, but not the use of yellow. I think the diamond should be paired with a green and white guide sign.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 31, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road
I like the concept, but not the use of yellow. I think the diamond should be paired with a green and white guide sign.
Maybe Elm Street is something drivers need to be cautioned against? :-D
The reason I went with yellow is because this is the practice that Illinois and Indiana both use and it looks better with the diamond signs. I have also seen some that are like this which I am fine with as well. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fgen4_zps2d046907.png&hash=bcdaf3811ba77a5e033bc2b8396dc8a34ed74686)
Indiana has schools as control cities, especially off of US-31 between South Bend and Indy. But then again, many schools in Indiana are results of consolidation.
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas. Hardly ever in the city of Chicago except on Lake Shore Dr between Columbus Dr and Randolph St. It looks like these. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fgen3_zpseca253e7.png&hash=400de63731ae6584fad0021896cec57deb54e2c4)
Green streetsigns on signals with both the "local name" and the route number Illinois does this mainly in Chicagoland like this on in Lockport at IL 171/State St and IL 7/9th St. http://www.landmarks.org/hcih/images/933-935-Sout-State-Street_Lockport-lg.jpg or like this one in Aurora. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1404&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=qtbstW_D3J30PM:&imgrefurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/state/il25kane.html&docid=3ff70Aeik0CzxM&imgurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/il25broad.jpg&w=414&h=279&ei=EurhUIzCKofj2QXw64CwCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=788&vpy=236&dur=823&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=140&ty=95&sig=114410953852498010262&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0,i:169
Whatcom and Clark County in Washington do the yellow streetblades religiously. It's actually to the point that the county uses yellow streetblades for every county road. I'm not sure about Whatcom County, but Clark County started to switch over to white mix-cased streetblades (however, they're still yellow for warning signs).
@ deanej: I think it's less confusing to motorists who aren't too familiar with the exit number system. If you just got on a freeway, sometimes it's not obvious which way the exit numbers are going up or down.
It would only be applied to cloverleafs or similar interchanges.
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas.
Georgia (GDOT) also does this. Counties there sometmes do but more spotty, with Cobb County putting the street name above the warning sign.
Quote
- Traffic Signals on side post ~ Illinois and California does this. It's rare for other states to do it, unless there's only one signal on the mast arm. The only times I've gone through a red light was sitting behind a big rig truck at a traffic intersection.
- City Limit Signs with Elevation/Population ~ I know California does this. I'm sure some states and random municipalities do it as well. I think it's a cool tidbit of information that the driver could have. Gives a sense of judgment on how traffic would be and how diverse services might be in that town or city.
Nevada standard practice for many years has been to have a far-side pole mount signal (for straight movements and turns) in addition to any overhead signal heads, despite how many overhead signal heads are present.
NDOT uses city/town limit signs, but just town name and elevation. Putting the population on is an extra expense that needs periodic updating for little benefit, IMHO.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 31, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road
I like the concept, but not the use of yellow. I think the diamond should be paired with a green and white guide sign.
Nevada DOT has done this for a long time with rural intersections. They used to use white on green for the street name signs, but some recent sign replacements I've seen along US 95 near Beatty use black on yellow (and mixed case) which I find harder to read at a distance.
Quote from: ftballfan on December 31, 2012, 03:16:39 PM
Indiana has schools as control cities, especially off of US-31 between South Bend and Indy. But then again, many schools in Indiana are results of consolidation.
Those aren't control cities though, just destinations. I can see small towns like Peru, Mexico or Bunker Hill as control cities, but not North Miami High School.
Quote from: oscar on December 30, 2012, 11:11:13 PM
Just a temperature gauge, basically. How many cars don't have outside-temperature gauges?
I've yet to own a car with an outside temperature gauge. I'm a cheap bastard.
Quote from: stonefort on December 31, 2012, 01:27:13 AM
I like the Indiana practice of actually getting new highways built. I'd love to see other states copy that crazy idea of actually building the roads needed by the populace.
Mitch Daniels is some sort of highway building demi-god. They need to clone him so other states can get some of his voodoo road magic.
It's easy to be like Mitch. Just have some valuable state asset, like a toll road, that you can lease to a foreign firm. Lease it for 75 years and make sure you get all the money up front. Spend all the money within 8 years, so you look like a hero. Get out out of politics after the money's gone, so you can't be held accountable. Maybe the presidency of a state university will open up.
I'd like to see Oklahoma adopt thermoplastic pavement markings. They are sturdier the stuff that passes for road paint in Oklahoma.
How about Jersey Freeways outside of New Jersey.
FL 436 would make a great one here in Orlando.
Many roads around the Tampa Bay area would make great canidates for example Dale Mabry Highway would be awesome for that with its major stop and go conditions due to its many signals.
Bottom line, it works well and other states could benefit from it.
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas. Hardly ever in the city of Chicago except on Lake Shore Dr between Columbus Dr and Randolph St. It looks like these. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fgen3_zpseca253e7.png&hash=400de63731ae6584fad0021896cec57deb54e2c4)
Green streetsigns on signals with both the "local name" and the route number Illinois does this mainly in Chicagoland like this on in Lockport at IL 171/State St and IL 7/9th St. http://www.landmarks.org/hcih/images/933-935-Sout-State-Street_Lockport-lg.jpg or like this one in Aurora. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1404&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=qtbstW_D3J30PM:&imgrefurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/state/il25kane.html&docid=3ff70Aeik0CzxM&imgurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/il25broad.jpg&w=414&h=279&ei=EurhUIzCKofj2QXw64CwCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=788&vpy=236&dur=823&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=140&ty=95&sig=114410953852498010262&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0,i:169
South Carolina does THIS too. I've seen plenty of these in Aiken and Orangeburg counties - also seen signs like this in Barnwell and Dorchester counties as well.
Add a tag with the gradient on every steep grade warning sign, as NC does. I first saw these on a roadtrip I took in the '80's; they were helpful to me in the standard shift Datsun 210 I was driving, and surely they'd be much more helpful to truckers.
I don't know if any state does this, but I'd like to see a nationwide BAN on any Highway Gothic Series C lettering that predates the 2005 release of Highway Gothic fonts for non-Street Name guide signs.
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
Use of letters for state highways, like what Wisconsin and Missouri does.
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Use of letters for state highways, like what Wisconsin and Missouri does.
For MO that is the case for secondary state highways, but for WI letters are used for county highways only.
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
There are many two-lane highways in west Texas with 75mph speed limits. Some other western states have 70mph limits on some of their two-lanes.
More states should use the "Lane Ends" sign with the slanted arrows as they do in MD/DE/VA. I think one was placed in PA in Chambersburg but it was not placed at the taper point (rather just past an intersection).
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
I don't know if any state does this, but I'd like to see a nationwide BAN on any Highway Gothic Series C lettering that predates the 2005 release of Highway Gothic fonts for non-Street Name guide signs.
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
Use of letters for state highways, like what Wisconsin and Missouri does.
Jesus Christ... Speed limits shouldn't be "capped" at anything. If you're on a flat desert floor, 55 MPH is ridiculously slow. Speed limits should be determined on the road conditions, population and geography.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
How about Jersey Freeways outside of New Jersey.
FL 436 would make a great one here in Orlando.
Many roads around the Tampa Bay area would make great canidates for example Dale Mabry Highway would be awesome for that with its major stop and go conditions due to its many signals.
Bottom line, it works well and other states could benefit from it.
Quote from: Steve on December 30, 2012, 09:00:01 PM
"Jersey freeways" - eliminate all grade crossings on a boulevard/arterial but continue to allow driveway access. This tends to work best for major commercial corridors, especially when they double as commuter routes during AM and PM hours.
READ
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
Um, what? There are some two-lane roads through desert where it's straight and you can see for miles and there's no reason for a speed limit under 70. There are plenty of interstates in mountains or dense urban areas that shouldn't be signed over 55. And there are plenty of state route freeways that meet as high standards as interstates. How about determining the speed limit by the geometric design and traffic patterns?
Hell, Florida has 60 on a lot of two-lanes. Nothing wrong as long as sight lines are good.
http://www.itoworld.com/map/124#fullscreen&lat=29.7&lon=-82.5&zoom=9 (60-65 is light blue; all the two-lanes are max 60)
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
I don't know if any state does this, but I'd like to see a nationwide BAN on any Highway Gothic Series C lettering that predates the 2005 release of Highway Gothic fonts for non-Street Name guide signs.
On what grounds? The version of Series C that Iowa uses is actually better than the federal Series C, if you ask me.
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM\\
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways.
Why?
Quote from: Big John on December 31, 2012, 03:30:06 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas.
Georgia (GDOT) also does this. Counties there sometmes do but more spotty, with Cobb County putting the street name above the warning sign.
Florida does it too, mainly on local and county roads. I've got to get a picture of one on Powell Road in rural Hernando County just west of Spring Lake.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:49:24 AM
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
I don't know if any state does this, but I'd like to see a nationwide BAN on any Highway Gothic Series C lettering that predates the 2005 release of Highway Gothic fonts for non-Street Name guide signs.
On what grounds? The version of Series C that Iowa uses is actually better than the federal Series C, if you ask me.
Personally, I'd like to see a comeback of the custom or slightly custom fonts. Variety is fun.
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
So the Garden State Parkway, Delaware Route 1, and half the NJ Turnpike (along with dozens of other non-interstate designated highways) should be limited to 60 mph because it doesn't have a federal number designation?
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Texas practice for speed limits on all roads spread. If you haven't done so, you should drive across the west before suggesting a 55 mph cap. I think 75 is about right for two-lane roads. Not all of them, but as a maximum limit to be applied where suitable. TxDOT has been setting 75 mph speed limits on two-lane roads where it appears to be actually suitable, and not just as a blanket practice on all roads. It's nice to see speed limits set by engineering judgement rather than politics. I think 75 is also good for well-traveled rural Interstates, while 80 and 85 are suitable for those that are straight and lightly, or very lightly, traveled.
On the other side, I'd like to see reasonable speed limits combined with strict enforcement. No more "75 means 85" or "85 means 90." If we're going to set speed limits, they need to be reasonable, and they need to be actual limits. Setting speed limits too low and then not enforcing them breeds disrespect for the law. I think Texas is taking a step in the right direction, and we now need to see strict enforcement and no tolerance.
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
I can think of plenty of two lane roads that could use faster than 55, and that's just in NY. Why are you so obsessed with making artificially low limits lower?
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways.
Ummm... why? Just because a freeway doesn't have an interstate number doesn't necessarily mean it's an inferior road. California has a number of non-interstate freeways (portions of or entire lengths of CA-1, 2, 4, 13, 17, 24, 60, 58, 84, 85, 87, 91, 92, 99, 118, 134, 170, 237, 242, and on and on and on) and you want the speed limits on these roads capped at 60 MPH just because they're not "Interstates"?!?!? For the most part, all freeways carry a 65 MPH speed limit unless conditions warrant a lower limit. Rural sections of CA-99 carry a 70 MPH limit. Also, many of California's freeways are built to interstate specifications.
Quote from: myosh_tino on January 02, 2013, 02:27:30 PM
Also, many of California's freeways are built to interstate specifications.
Another way to look at it:
Most of California's state route freeways (except for Route 110 north of the Four-Level, and unsigned Route 51/Business 80 between US 50 and Foothill Farms) are much closer to Interstate standard than Interstate 80 in San Francisco.
Quote from: TheStranger on January 02, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on January 02, 2013, 02:27:30 PM
Also, many of California's freeways are built to interstate specifications.
Another way to look at it:
Most of California's state route freeways (except for Route 110 north of the Four-Level, and unsigned Route 51/Business 80 between US 50 and Foothill Farms) are much closer to Interstate standard than Interstate 80 in San Francisco.
Yes, I-80 in San Francisco is the poster child for substandard interstates. The posted speed limit is 50, and it would not be a good idea to raise it. No shoulders, poor sightlines, poor merging distances, excessively frequent entrances and exits. 50 is still about 40 mph faster than you could go on city streets, though. :)
Another example, not quite so bad, is I-5 between Redding and Weed as it goes over Shasta Dam and through the mountains. Many, many turns marked at 50 mph. I think speed limit is 65 between the turns, and it certainly shouldn't be raised. Possibly should be lowered for December and January because of frequent frost and snow.
Quote from: Big John on December 31, 2012, 03:30:06 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas.
Having spent my earliest years (when I developed roadgeekiness) in Illinois, it never occurred to me until reading this thread that not everywhere uses the yellow plaque for the street name. I've seen white-on-green before and just assumed it was a mistake every time. It's a very useful thing when giving directions to someone. When someone from out of town is doing 55 mph, looking for the right crossroad, it's very helpful to give some advance notice.
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 31, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Here are some practices I like that I wish the other states would do:
Yellow crossroad/signal ahead/stop sign ahead signs have the name of the upcoming road Illinois and sometimes Indiana does those especially on main roads in rural/suburban areas. Hardly ever in the city of Chicago except on Lake Shore Dr between Columbus Dr and Randolph St. It looks like these. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fgen3_zpseca253e7.png&hash=400de63731ae6584fad0021896cec57deb54e2c4)
Green streetsigns on signals with both the "local name" and the route number Illinois does this mainly in Chicagoland like this on in Lockport at IL 171/State St and IL 7/9th St. http://www.landmarks.org/hcih/images/933-935-Sout-State-Street_Lockport-lg.jpg or like this one in Aurora. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1404&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=qtbstW_D3J30PM:&imgrefurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/state/il25kane.html&docid=3ff70Aeik0CzxM&imgurl=http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/il25broad.jpg&w=414&h=279&ei=EurhUIzCKofj2QXw64CwCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=788&vpy=236&dur=823&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=140&ty=95&sig=114410953852498010262&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0,i:169
We have the yellow crossroad/signal signs with the upcoming street listed on them in many of the outer/suburban areas of Rockford, IL.
The city does have massive street name signs mounted on nearly all of the traffic signal mast arms....you can usually read the text half a block away! Here's an example:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=mulford+%26+newberg+rockford+il&hl=en&ll=42.252791,-89.026873&spn=0.004868,0.006899&sll=45.402307,-122.742004&sspn=0.587206,0.883026&t=h&gl=us&hnear=S+Mulford+Rd+%26+Newburg+Rd,+Rockford,+Winnebago,+Illinois+61108&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.252791,-89.028828&panoid=yBxJACyDc7vF29d_hazRFw&cbp=12,2.77,,1,-9.07
And for state highways, particularly toward the edge of town on IL Route 70, the state highway number is listed on the street sign (in place of the block number). Some signs for State Street / BUS US 20 (as it's stylized) are like this on the far west side of Rockford.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rockford+il&ll=42.314028,-89.134322&spn=0.003416,0.003449&hnear=Rockford,+Winnebago,+Illinois&gl=us&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.314093,-89.13523&panoid=DE1GQ520EPlnl2yGPMiiTQ&cbp=12,98.38,,2,-4.12
The black on yellow colors for street name tabs (where provided) are required by the MUTCD. Having stated that, I agree with others on this thread that they should be white on green.
I also maintain that the street name signs at intersections themselves should always be white on green (local preferences or "historic" districts notwithstanding).
I like Kentucky's habit of signing exits 2 miles in advance, rather than 1 mile in advance as is the habit in Illinois.
Quote from: kkt on December 30, 2012, 02:13:43 PM
I like this practice that's common in California and rare here in Washington: On urban arterials, posting a big green sign midblock
Portland has installed "(Street Name) Next Signal" signs for decades; while they are slowly fading away, ODOT has begun installing them on state highways in the Metro area.
Florida could use for temporary road signs in construction area work zones, when the normal signs need to be temporarily removed so workers can do their thing. Many intersections and ramps to freeways are missing trailblazing during road projects due to the signs being in the imediate work area. So many do not know that the unmarked turn is leading on to a freeway or a toll highway, or even the route that the motorist may need.
In some cases, portable VMSes are brought out to replace exit guide signs in road widening projects. Even though it is something, many other states erect moveable signs that workers can easily plant nearby when working in the area of the sign. New Jersey and Pennsylvania use Orange guide signs during work periods and sometimes I have seen NJDOT use small lgses during construction until the new permanent signs are erected at the end of the project.
Also, FDOT does not like to post information signs letting motorists know about the nature of the project. Many states tell you what the new road will be, or the type of improvements that are being made. When FL 429 was constructed, no large project signs letting you know what was being done or what the new highway will be, as my home state of New Jersey will tell you what interstate or state route is being constructed and the costs, project summary, etc.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 04, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Also, FDOT does not like to post information signs letting motorists know about the nature of the project. Many states tell you what the new road will be, or the type of improvements that are being made. When FL 429 was constructed, no large project signs letting you know what was being done or what the new highway will be, as my home state of New Jersey will tell you what interstate or state route is being constructed and the costs, project summary, etc.
WTF? I see FDOT (and Orange County) signs all the time with completion date. SR 429 is OOCEA.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.450797,-81.392151&spn=0.017206,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.450797,-81.392151&panoid=moOGECrDBUDIqWaOzyLtiQ&cbp=12,232.13,,2,-0.2
I can't stand numerically-based exit numbers. I wish every state's exit numbers were mileage-based. It drives me crazy when I'm driving out east somewhere and it's, say, 15 miles between Exit 6 and Exit 7. It's so nice to be able to easily compute how many more miles it is to your exit.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on February 05, 2013, 09:42:29 AM
I can't stand numerically-based exit numbers. I wish every state's exit numbers were mileage-based. It drives me crazy when I'm driving out east somewhere and it's, say, 15 miles between Exit 6 and Exit 7. It's so nice to be able to easily compute how many more miles it is to your exit.
Numerical exit numbers still exist in 2013? The only one I can think of is I-78 in New York, but that's intentional since it's just a round-a-bout after the tunnel. I think it would have been better if they just did Exit A-E instead of Exit 1-5, though.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on February 05, 2013, 09:56:43 AM
Numerical exit numbers still exist in 2013? The only one I can think of is I-78 in New York, but that's intentional since it's just a round-a-bout after the tunnel. I think it would have been better if they just did Exit A-E instead of Exit 1-5, though.
Around here, in lots of places: Delaware (except DE 1 which uses kilometers), Maryland (on I-695), New Jersey (on the Turnpike), New York, most of New England, possibly a few short freeways in Virginia.
Quote from: elsmere241 on February 05, 2013, 10:00:13 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on February 05, 2013, 09:56:43 AM
Numerical exit numbers still exist in 2013? The only one I can think of is I-78 in New York, but that's intentional since it's just a round-a-bout after the tunnel. I think it would have been better if they just did Exit A-E instead of Exit 1-5, though.
Around here, in lots of places: Delaware (except DE 1 which uses kilometers), Maryland (on I-695), New Jersey (on the Turnpike), New York, most of New England, possibly a few short freeways in Virginia.
I-395 in Virginia definitely has sequential numbers, as do I-395 and I-295 in DC. In all three cases the exits are close enough together that the sequential numbering is probably easier for most people to follow than the mileage-based due to the latter's need for excessive suffixed numbers, especially when the existing exit numbers are already suffixed (up to "D," in one case).
I haven't been to Hampton Roads, Roanoke, or Bristol in a long time and so I don't know whether the shorter routes there use sequential numbers. Takumi would probably know as to Hampton Roads.
Still sequential on any interstate here in Connecticut as well: I-84/I-91/I-95/I-384/I-291/I-691/I-395 (I-684 passes through Greenwich with no exit on that stretch.)
Big Rig Steve just posted several real-time video clips of a drive that he made on I-95, NH 101, I-93, etc. a couple of weeks ago on Youtube and the interchange numbers in New Hampshire are all sequential, not distance-based.
Mike
I never really pay attention to exit numbers in urban areas anyway, navigating instead by street name. It's only in rural areas that I go by exit numbers.
The increases in speed limits recently in Texas is something I would like to see on rural Interstates in other states. Wisconsin's 65 mph speed limit is much too low for rural Interstate there. Same with Illinois being 65 mph and Iowa's being 70 mph. I think they should be bumped up to 70 mph in WI and IL, and 75 in Iowa.
Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 05, 2013, 02:10:59 PM
The increases in speed limits recently in Texas is something I would like to see on rural Interstates in other states. Wisconsin's 65 mph speed limit is much too low for rural Interstate there. Same with Illinois being 65 mph and Iowa's being 70 mph. I think they should be bumped up to 70 mph in WI and IL, and 75 in Iowa.
there are roads in all three of those states which would make sense at 80. I-64 in Illinois comes to mind, as does I-90 west of the I-94 split in Wisconsin. as for Iowa, oh just about every rural interstate could be 80.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 02:13:51 PM
I-64 in Illinois comes to mind
I would prefer this highway at mach 1.2 or thereabouts. I once drove it from Grayville (near Keensburg, actually) to Mount Vernon at 48 mph, in order to prevent my truck's turbo hose from blowing off again. Not fun.
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2013, 04:03:55 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 04, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Also, FDOT does not like to post information signs letting motorists know about the nature of the project. Many states tell you what the new road will be, or the type of improvements that are being made. When FL 429 was constructed, no large project signs letting you know what was being done or what the new highway will be, as my home state of New Jersey will tell you what interstate or state route is being constructed and the costs, project summary, etc.
WTF? I see FDOT (and Orange County) signs all the time with completion date. SR 429 is OOCEA.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.450797,-81.392151&spn=0.017206,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.450797,-81.392151&panoid=moOGECrDBUDIqWaOzyLtiQ&cbp=12,232.13,,2,-0.2
Only in rare cases do they do that. I do not see signs for FL 429 while it was under construction or even the extension of FL 451 across from US 441 if that is what it is. Is there a sign where Destination Parkway meets John Young? No this is county, but FL 414 never did when a direct ramp was made to SB US 17 & WB US 92 in Maitland, as well as the FDOT section of FL 414 did not have signs and is there any signs along OBT where they are doing the safety improvements between Oakridge and Landstreet? I know the answer is no, as I travel that stretch very frequently.
The SR 482 sign is the exception and not the norm.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 05, 2013, 02:10:59 PM
The increases in speed limits recently in Texas is something I would like to see on rural Interstates in other states. Wisconsin's 65 mph speed limit is much too low for rural Interstate there. Same with Illinois being 65 mph and Iowa's being 70 mph. I think they should be bumped up to 70 mph in WI and IL, and 75 in Iowa.
there are roads in all three of those states which would make sense at 80. I-64 in Illinois comes to mind, as does I-90 west of the I-94 split in Wisconsin. as for Iowa, oh just about every rural interstate could be 80.
I completely agree with you, although just bumping them up even just 5 mph would be a good start. But if they bumped them all up to 80, you certainly wouldn't hear me complaining.
I think 80's just a "good start". rural roads should, generally speaking, not have speed limits. just pull people over for reckless driving if they're doing something stupid.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 03:55:18 PM
I think 80's just a "good start". rural roads should, generally speaking, not have speed limits. just pull people over for reckless driving if they're doing something stupid.
Montana tried that and failed.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 03:40:19 PM
Only in rare cases do they do that. I do not see signs for FL 429 while it was under construction or even the extension of FL 451 across from US 441 if that is what it is.
Those are OOCEA projects, you dumb ass.
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2013, 04:21:46 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 03:40:19 PM
Only in rare cases do they do that. I do not see signs for FL 429 while it was under construction or even the extension of FL 451 across from US 441 if that is what it is.
Those are OOCEA projects, you dumb ass.
Oh really I did not know that! Thanks for telling me. You mean FL 408 is not FDOT? Oh, I am so upset.
Read on bub, I mentioned other FDOT projects. So I left out the fact the OOCEA does not sign its roads along with other road agencies, big deal. Can't win em all, but the point was that alot of places in this state do not sign their projects. Yeah, I am aware that FL 429 is not state maintained.
Not to get into an argument with you as I was not trying to get your goat with the last post, just to politely say that its more normal to not post projects than to post them, at least in the Orlando area.
What are you so upset for anyway? I did not call you names? Nor was I at all insulting your post either.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:00:39 PM
Montana tried that and failed.
yeah, let's never try it again. quitting is awesome.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:00:39 PM
Montana tried that and failed.
yeah, let's never try it again. quitting is awesome.
Actually I am surprised by the fact that it did not work in Montana. I think you are right about having no speed limits in rural areas at least with small traffic counts and no wildlife. People will travel what they want anyway.
I have to read up again on that. I have heard so many stories to why it never worked.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 05:00:23 PM
I have to read up again on that. I have heard so many stories to why it never worked.
basically, they never defined "reasonable and prudent" in an enforceable manner.
given that "reckless driving" is defined in an enforceable manner, I think it should be easy enough to invert that definition to come up with "reasonable and prudent".
Quote from: mjb2002 on January 01, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
Cap the speed limit on all two-lane highways at 55 max, and on non-interstate highways at 60 max, which are the maxes on SC's highways. Interstate speed limits should be 85 mph, or whatever Texas implements should they increase the speed limit even higher.
Why?? I came to this thread to say the opposite thing. Come out to central/eastern Oregon, and drive on US 20 between Bend and Burns. I dare you to keep it at 55. Not only is it unreasonable and difficult, it's dangerous, because everybody else is going 10-15 or more mph faster than you.
What you're basically saying, is that the speed limit on an interstate should be up to
30 more than
any two lane highway. You haven't been on many two lane highways out west, have you?
I'm sure there are plenty of 2 lane highways that should stick to 55, but not all of them. I think DOTs shouldn't be able to be "racist" about route types. In Oregon, Interstates can hit 65 mph, but an Interstate grade US route like US 26 east of Portland, or OR-22 west of Salem, is stuck at 55, no matter what. That makes no sense. Base speed limits on the road, not on the color of the shield.
I think the max speed limit (if any needs to be set at all) should be raised to 75, and have that be the "default" speed limit on all (rural) freeways (Interstate or US/State). 65 should be the default for two laners, but can be raised (or lowered if needed) up to 75 depending on conditions (like parts of US 20, 395, 95, etc.).
Also, I like the California style city limit signs, that list the elevation and population. That's info I always like to know, and it bugs me that states like Oregon omits all of that from the standard signs (local municipalities sometimes have it though).
Yes, I know this one, and the last one, have been mentioned, but I'm just adding what I'd like. I'd really like to see California style cutout shields used in other states, they're so pretty :D
Quote from: doorknob60 on February 05, 2013, 05:22:25 PM
Yes, I know this one, and the last one, have been mentioned, but I'm just adding what I'd like. I'd really like to see California style cutout shields used in other states, they're so pretty :D
says the guy whose icon is a '70 spec black shield. at least use '61 spec :sombrero:
and yeah, I just did that Burns-Bend drive... at night and in pretty heavy snow; I was going about 45 and getting passed constantly. never mind the prevalence of tow trucks every so often pulling someone out of the ditch.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on February 05, 2013, 05:22:25 PM
Yes, I know this one, and the last one, have been mentioned, but I'm just adding what I'd like. I'd really like to see California style cutout shields used in other states, they're so pretty :D
says the guy whose icon is a '70 spec black shield. at least use '61 spec :sombrero:
This is the only high quality image I could find in the 10 seconds I felt like looking for an image when I registered. It was just the one from the Wikipedia page. I'll fix it at some point :P
Quote from: doorknob60 on February 05, 2013, 05:22:25 PM
and yeah, I just did that Burns-Bend drive... at night and in pretty heavy snow; I was going about 45 and getting passed constantly. never mind the prevalence of tow trucks every so often pulling someone out of the ditch.
Yeah, snow completely changes things. I've never driven from Bend to Burns in snow, but usually when a road is packed snow, I don't like going much more than about 45-50 (or less depending on how bad it is). (Speaking specifically about Bend to Burns here) In dry conditions at night, I feel good at 65, and if it's dry during the day, 75+. This is a good argument for variable speed limits, they could work very well in these situations. Just don't overspend on them like Washington. I'd be find with a lowered nighttime speed limit, and especially in bad weather. But this shouldn't be needed, people should be smart enough to adjust their speed based on conditions. They aren't, but they should be.
A two-lane highway is necessarily less safe than a divided, access-controlled route. There's the possibility of other drivers passing or losing control and crossing the centerline. There also may be driveways where a slow vehicle may be pulling out (I know, not so many out by Bend, but it still can happen). Depending on the state, bicycles and mopeds may be allowed on the road. I'm not saying the speed limit on two lane-highways should never be higher than 55, but other things being equal a freeway is safer and is justified in having a higher speed limit.
I think speed limits of 80 or higher are unreasonable given the minimal driver's training in the U.S., the "warm body" approach to drivers' licensing, and minimal to nonexistent vehicle inspections. If we want to have unlimited speed sections of freeway like Germany, we need to have drivers' training and hard drivers' license testing like Germany. But that would cost more.
Quote from: kkt on February 05, 2013, 06:13:34 PMBut that would cost more.
have people pay for it, then.
In a vain attempt to bring this thread back to topic, I wish other states would follow Texas' lead and actually post different speed limits in different parts of the state. People would respect the lower limits more, while still allowing higher ones in more wide-open places.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:51:26 PM
Not to get into an argument with you as I was not trying to get your goat with the last post
God, does Alanland have to invade EVERY thread?
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:00:39 PM
Montana tried that and failed. [/quote]
I'm pretty sure if Montana "tried that and failed", a speeding ticket would not be equivalent to a parking citation (with a $20 fine).
In fact, a parking ticket in downtown Portland, Oregon costs 350% more than a Montana speeding ticket.
Quote from: Steve on February 05, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
God, does Alanland have to invade EVERY thread?
Yes. As of January 1.
Back on topic.
California's internal exit "tabs." That's all I want to see.
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 06:45:22 PM
In a vain attempt to bring this thread back to topic, I wish other states would follow Texas' lead and actually post different speed limits in different parts of the state. People would respect the lower limits more, while still allowing higher ones in more wide-open places.
Agreed. Just about every state approaches the issue from the standpoint of "What should the speed limit be?" That lends itself to the procedure of using the same number everywhere. I think a better way to approach the question is "How should speed limits be set?" Let the state legislature establish a statutory framework for setting speed limits, a framework that ought not include a blanket maximum number. Then let the appropriate regulatory agency established the limits on roads throughout the state.
Quote from: Steve on February 05, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
God, does Alanland have to invade EVERY thread?
Yes and no, unless Newegg, Nimbya or the Perkins Union are involved. Then it's no and yes.
Quote from: Darkchylde on February 06, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
Back on topic.
California's internal exit "tabs." That's all I want to see.
I think you might be the first person to like the internal tabs. I don't mind them, but definitely prefer external ones.
Oh yeah one thing I forgot to mention that is in EVERY state except for California which I would like to see in California as well is a consistent marking of their Interstates by the mile and numbering the exits based off the mile markers. I know they do this already on some interstates in some areas of the state, but last time I was on I-40 from Needles to Barstow, there were no mile markers and the exits weren't numbered. Has this changed on I-40 yet?
And I guess I could just pose the question to those of you who live out there: What Interstates in CA do you know of that are marked by the mile and have numbered exits? Is I-40 one of the few that isn't (or wasn't)? Like I said I haven't been out there in 3 years so I don't know if this has changed much or not yet, so I thought I would ask.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 06, 2013, 10:01:32 AM
Quote from: Darkchylde on February 06, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
Back on topic.
California's internal exit "tabs." That's all I want to see.
I think you might be the first person to like the internal tabs. I don't mind them, but definitely prefer external ones.
Well he's not the only one, I like them too. Can't imagine California without them.
Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 08, 2013, 09:24:35 PM
Oh yeah one thing I forgot to mention that is in EVERY state except for California which I would like to see in California as well is a consistent marking of their Interstates by the mile and numbering the exits based off the mile markers. I know they do this already on some interstates in some areas of the state, but last time I was on I-40 from Needles to Barstow, there were no mile markers and the exits weren't numbered. Has this changed on I-40 yet?
And I guess I could just pose the question to those of you who live out there: What Interstates in CA do you know of that are marked by the mile and have numbered exits? Is I-40 one of the few that isn't (or wasn't)? Like I said I haven't been out there in 3 years so I don't know if this has changed much or not yet, so I thought I would ask.
California doesn't do the traditional mile markers except in very limited circumstances, partially due to extensive use of postmile system. Thus, there's very few (if any) mile markers on interstates. All the interstates have numbered exits based on mileage though.
Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 08, 2013, 09:24:35 PM
Oh yeah one thing I forgot to mention that is in EVERY state except for California which I would like to see in California as well is a consistent marking of their Interstates by the mile and numbering the exits based off the mile markers. I know they do this already on some interstates in some areas of the state, but last time I was on I-40 from Needles to Barstow, there were no mile markers and the exits weren't numbered. Has this changed on I-40 yet?
And I guess I could just pose the question to those of you who live out there: What Interstates in CA do you know of that are marked by the mile and have numbered exits? Is I-40 one of the few that isn't (or wasn't)? Like I said I haven't been out there in 3 years so I don't know if this has changed much or not yet, so I thought I would ask.
There are two highways that I know of that have green mile posts. CA-58 from the base of the Tehachapi Mountains to Boron and US 6 from outside of Bishop to the Nevada stateline. I'm not sure if these were installed on an experimental basis but the reason why California does not use the green mile posts is because each highway already has black-on-white postmiles. The problem is, these postmiles are for maintenance purposes only (not for navigational purposes) and reset at the county line.
As far as exit numbers are concerned, according to the Caltrans' Exit Numbering website (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/signtech/calnexus/index.htm), as of 2008 more than half of the almost 6,000 freeway exits have been signed with an exit number (exit direction, advance guide, or gore point sign). Of the more than 23,000 signs in the state, a little more than 7,200 signs have been replaced and/or retrofitted with an exit number.
For the most part, a majority of signs on the major interstates (5, 8, 10, 15, 40 and 80) have been replaced with signs that include an exit number. However, the rest of California's freeway system including the 3DIs (x05, x10, x15, x80), US routes (101 and 50) and state highways is a bit hit-or-miss. I know up here in northern California, freeways within San Mateo county (I-280, I-380, US 101, CA-92) are well signed with exit numbers while in Santa Clara county, numbered exits are quite spotty.
I'd like to see Oregon-style speed signs (without the word "limit") on them in other states. Vastly, vastly more readable. We've started getting more "standard" ones here in Oregon recently, and they're appreciably more difficult to read. (Of course, should I ever get a ticket in an area where the standard MUTCD design is prevalent, I could try that excuse. :police:) And on that note, I'd like to see the numerals from other states (Nevada's, at the least) end up on our "limitless" speed signs.
I like the fact that both California and Idaho (maybe some other states ) post the population on city limit signs, so you can gauge what the city might have in it by its size. This is helpful if one is traveling and not framiliar with the area. Even more helpful on interstates.
Quote from: sandiaman on February 09, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
I like the fact that both California and Idaho (maybe some other states ) post the population on city limit signs, so you can gauge what the city might have in it by its size. This is helpful if one is traveling and not framiliar with the area. Even more helpful on interstates.
Wisconsin and Illinois also do this, but not on freeway signs.
Minnesota does on all signs
Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2013, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: sandiaman on February 09, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
I like the fact that both California and Idaho (maybe some other states ) post the population on city limit signs, so you can gauge what the city might have in it by its size. This is helpful if one is traveling and not framiliar with the area. Even more helpful on interstates.
Wisconsin and Illinois also do this, but not on freeway signs.
I like what is done on the QEW in Ontario, Canada. They have the population of the city with the amount of interchanges the city has servicing it.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Grimsby,+ON,+Canada&hl=en&ll=43.189471,-79.494324&spn=0.015926,0.042272&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=9.892242,21.643066&oq=grimsb&t=h&hnear=Grimsby,+Niagara+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario,+Canada&z=15&layer=c&cbll=43.189476,-79.493978&panoid=vuzQAUvnRR88soh0nghoaw&cbp=12,315,,0,0
Quote from: roadman65 on February 09, 2013, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2013, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: sandiaman on February 09, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
I like the fact that both California and Idaho (maybe some other states ) post the population on city limit signs, so you can gauge what the city might have in it by its size. This is helpful if one is traveling and not framiliar with the area. Even more helpful on interstates.
Wisconsin and Illinois also do this, but not on freeway signs.
I like what is done on the QEW in Ontario, Canada. They have the population of the city with the amount of interchanges the city has servicing it.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Grimsby,+ON,+Canada&hl=en&ll=43.189471,-79.494324&spn=0.015926,0.042272&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=9.892242,21.643066&oq=grimsb&t=h&hnear=Grimsby,+Niagara+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario,+Canada&z=15&layer=c&cbll=43.189476,-79.493978&panoid=vuzQAUvnRR88soh0nghoaw&cbp=12,315,,0,0
I like the practice that Wisconsin used to do more often but seems that they are stopping it with the Interstate exits that serve a city. This is what I mean.
Madison ExitsUS 12-18 1 1/4
Hwy 30 5 1/2
US 151 8
Sorry I couldn't find the sign I was looking for.
^Like this one:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2Flax-1_zps4113ee17.png&hash=b62b84c41e2ca719d6134e51cefd02109c74ad63)
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Indiana does it...once (as far as I know). On I-65 North:
Gary Exits
Ridge Road 1 1/4
I-80/94 2
15th Ave 3 1/2
I think this is also done (sparsely) in Illinois. I seem to recall a sign for exits in the Kankakee area on I-57.
Nonetheless, I think that would be a great practice to follow for secondary controls. Take I-65 south near Lafayette. Instead of, "Lafayette, Next 3 Exits," for example, there could be a sign that goes a little something like this:
Lafayette Exits
NORTH Indiana 25 2
Indiana 26 5
Indiana 38, SOUTH Indiana 25 9
Those signs are also used in Vincennes for US 41, Washington for US 50 (called exits despite the fact that they aren't, and SR 37 uses them for Martinsville, Bloomington and Bedford (the former two are probably endangered with the pending I-69 construction.) But I sure wouldn't mind seeing their use in other spots. Beyond I-65 in Lafayette, they could also be used for Lebanon and Columbus. I-70 could use them with Terre Haute and Richmond, I-69 with Anderson/Muncie and I-64 with Evansville. As for Illinois, I know I've also seen similar signage with Champaign and Effingham so I thought those were pretty standard there.
Quote from: tdindy88 on February 11, 2013, 12:28:07 AM
Those signs are also used in Vincennes for US 41, Washington for US 50 (called exits despite the fact that they aren't, and SR 37 uses them for Martinsville, Bloomington and Bedford (the former two are probably endangered with the pending I-69 construction.) But I sure wouldn't mind seeing their use in other spots. Beyond I-65 in Lafayette, they could also be used for Lebanon and Columbus. I-70 could use them with Terre Haute and Richmond, I-69 with Anderson/Muncie and I-64 with Evansville. As for Illinois, I know I've also seen similar signage with Champaign and Effingham so I thought those were pretty standard there.
I thought there were more signs along I-57 in Champaign and Effingham. It's been a long while since I trudged up I-57.
I agree wholeheartedly about the other secondaries in Indiana with that same treatment. Instead of a small sign with "Next X Exits," a larger sign with the specific exits and mileage would suffice greatly. I didn't even know they did this on non-interstates, and it would be a great service when the U.S. 31 freeway conversion is complete.
The Champaign ones I saw on I-74, there's also one specifally for University of Illinois exits. The Effingham one was on I-70, but I believe those communities are also covered on I-57 as well.
There are several mileage signs like that in Portland for its surrounding cities in the metro area. On the Interstate Bridge (note the ODOT manufactured signs using WSDOT specs) http://goo.gl/maps/6sxRr
Three of these exist for Beaverton exits, two westbound and one eastbound on US-26. And there's at least another one for Gresham exits on I-84 eastbound. I really do like this practice, but it seems that new mileage distance signs in the Portland metro no longer do this. It would also be very useful in SoCal, considering how many cities blanket the LA/OC metro area down here, though I bet sign height caps make this unfeasible.
Quote from: Tarkus on February 09, 2013, 03:27:53 AM
I'd like to see Oregon-style speed signs (without the word "limit") on them in other states. Vastly, vastly more readable. We've started getting more "standard" ones here in Oregon recently, and they're appreciably more difficult to read. (Of course, should I ever get a ticket in an area where the standard MUTCD design is prevalent, I could try that excuse. :police:) And on that note, I'd like to see the numerals from other states (Nevada's, at the least) end up on our "limitless" speed signs.
This brings up an interested question. According the SHSM, the 60x48 speed limit signs has 16-inch numerals which is rather small IMO. A few have popped up in California but the majority of the speed limit signs on California freeways use 20-inch numerals. If readability is an issue as Oregon transitions to "SPEED LIMIT" vs "SPEED" signs, perhaps ODOT should adopt the California standard. While the numerals aren't the same size as the Oregon "Speed" signs, they are bigger than the FHWA standard.
Speed Limit Signs --- California (20" digits) vs Oregon (30" digits) vs FHWA (16" digits)...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FSpeedLimit-CA.png&hash=475c285609dc9fa9b337dcedd72676cb3f7f74de) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FSpeedLimit-OR.png&hash=623bc336a81e7cdd54505e7c83b9d48bf2e7f068) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FSpeedLimit-FHWA.png&hash=1de3f78acfa98407718796a8b1493fdfc693ddad)
Note: I do not have specs for the Oregon "SPEED" sign. My sign was based on approximations made while manipulating a photo of a "SPEED" sign.
All of this makes me wonder why the FHWA 60x48 speed limit sign uses rather small digits. The 30x24 FHWA speed limit sign uses 10-inch digits so why not use 20-inch digits in the 60x48?
I like the concept of a minimum speed for any vehicle in the left lane when there are 3 or more lanes climbing a grade. CO has had them for several years, and I recently saw the same in use in VA.
Why should an empty truck have to keep right, while a bus or slow camper is allowed to block the passing lane? Preservation of traffic flow is the main idea, correct?
Quote from: on_wisconsin on February 10, 2013, 08:44:42 PM
^Like this one:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2Flax-1_zps4113ee17.png&hash=b62b84c41e2ca719d6134e51cefd02109c74ad63)
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Yes that was what I had in mind. Thanks.