A few years ago, I saw some buzz about a possible north beltline highway in Madison, WI. The current beltline (US12) is so crowded and I know they're currently working to study/upgrade it. The last I heard, there was more support for making the north beltline a parkway, to reduce the cost and environmental impact.
I haven't seen anything recent about this. Has anyone heard anything more? Is this a dead project?
I think it's dead in the water, the only info I found was from a fansite.
What was the proposed routing of this? I went to college in Madison and don't seem to recall anything about it.
Was it perhaps along WI-19?
Interesting ideas. If they constructed this to Interstate standards, along with upgrades to the existing beltway, we could someday have a 3-di in Madison. Should we give some love to I-39 and dub the Madison beltway I-239? :-P
Quote from: DrZoidberg on April 29, 2009, 10:06:38 AM
Interesting ideas. If they constructed this to Interstate standards, along with upgrades to the existing beltway, we could someday have a 3-di in Madison. Should we give some love to I-39 and dub the Madison beltway I-239? :-P
sounds like a nice fictional highway - if it ever came to fruition. :-D but the current beltline is not completely interstate standard - nor is it planned to make it so. US 18 and US 151 branch off at Verona Rd and the traffic volume for that interchange is too large particularly at rush-hour. Studies are being conducted to build a freeway in the Verona Road ROW with flyovers from east of the interchange with the Beltline. US 14 south is a freeway for a short distance (to Oregon - no not the state :-P) - and is connected to the beltline by a partial cloverleaf - but WisDOT is going to change that to a ... *gasp* DIAMOND!!! :pan: In reality, there isn't enough room for a full cloverleaf though. Some overpasses also are below interstate height minimums - especially Seminole Highway's overpass.
I came back this way on my visit to Iowa last week. I used it around midday and the traffic was flowing fine although it's probably much slower at peak hours. The middle part is best with a quadplex of US shields.
Looking on Google Earth it does appear to have been extended a mile or two north of University Ave with US-12 north of there being recently divided. It's a pity there's so many traffic lights and I caught most of them on red.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsabre-roads.org.uk%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10163%2Fnormal_madison.jpg&hash=b69a33ef1e053aeeb1dcb57bb275b7caf9b65647) (http://sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10163/madison.jpg)
I'm not sure where you caught any red lights along the Beltline, it is a freeway after all. And yes, the freeway was extended north to bypass downtown Middleton a couple years ago, to go along with expanding US 12 to a 4-lane expressway from Middleton to Prairie du Sac.
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 17, 2009, 11:45:38 AM
I'm not sure where you caught any red lights along the Beltline, it is a freeway after all.
I should have said that I meant the section north of Middleton. As US-14 is currently closed east of Mazomanie I joined US-12 at WIS-19. Between there and Middleton it's completely at-grade which is a pity although I can see the reasoning if grade separation adds too much to the cost.
There's enough cross traffic from the two WI-19 intersections and CR-K that hopefully they'll be upgraded soon. I've passed by lines of cars waiting to get on 12 from WB WI-19 (i.e., what passes for a north beltline).
Guys I looked it up and found that many farmers dont like it :banghead: :banghead: they're probably going to win :pan: :pan:
Quote from: Chris petite on September 24, 2009, 05:01:06 PM
Guys I looked it up and found that many farmers dont like it :banghead: :banghead: they're probably going to win :pan: :pan:
Which means that WI 19 will likely evolve over time just like the South Beltline did. Demands of traffic and increasing delays will mean a small improvement here, a new grade separation and interchange there and eventually, and before anyone realizes it, it will morph into a full freeway.
For example, there was considerable wailing and gnashing of teeth in the years before the swamp (Yahara Marsh) bridge was built back in the late 1980s, with much study involving upgrading the then existing highway (now Broadway in Monona - imagine THAT becoming the six-lane freeway instead!). Ultimately, and thankfully, cooler heads prevailed.
Mike
Then there would be a bypass around Waunakee, an 8-laning around the concurrency with WI 113, and a Sun Prairie bypass as well :colorful:
Which, in turn, combined with the eventual US-12 freeway conversion to WI-19, would finally make a full beltway around Madison. The city would grow to as much as 320,000 in 30-40 years if that happens :clap: :clap: :clap:
And then the vast majority of those 320,000 will be driving cars and we'll be back to square one with regards to traffic congestion :ded:
Oh yeah I forgot about traffic congestion, but it would make some really nice development for a city around 230,000 people.
There was just an editorial in the Wisconsin State Journal this past week about the North Mendota Parkway, so the idea isn't totally dead yet. But instead of calling for a freeway, the writer was only suggesting a 4-lane 45mph parkway, in part to appease farmers and landowners in the area.
Quote from: Master son on April 29, 2009, 10:27:09 AM
US 14 south is a freeway for a short distance (to Oregon - no not the state :-P) - and is connected to the beltline by a partial cloverleaf - but WisDOT is going to change that to a ... *gasp* DIAMOND!!! :pan:
So freaking stupid. Why do these agencies keep trying to remove freeway-to-freeway interchanges just because they don't have interstate shields on both of them?
I've driven the beltway twice, and drove the US-14 spur south once (and US-151 southwest to Dubuque). Nice road. Sucks it just ENDS for no reason at a cross road.
Noticed that with several Wisconsin areas. US-12 east of Darien off I-43 is another one. Would make a great alternate if it were ever tied into an I-290 extension or so.
Sykotyk
(fixed quote tag. --br)
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 29, 2009, 11:45:48 PM
There was just an editorial in the Wisconsin State Journal this past week about the North Mendota Parkway, so the idea isn't totally dead yet. But instead of calling for a freeway, the writer was only suggesting a 4-lane 45mph parkway, in part to appease farmers and landowners in the area.
Yeah they might as well build the eastern part. At least the farmers at Oncken Road are happy now :colorful:
I don't live in Wisconsin but how about converting US 151 into an interstate from Dubuque to Fond du Lac. It would probably be the next best thing. It's too bad the WDOT can not buy the farmers' land- I think the beltline loop would be a perfect destination for a 3 di interstate.
Quote from: leifvanderwall on October 02, 2009, 07:01:46 PM
I don't live in Wisconsin but how about converting US 151 into an interstate from Dubuque to Fond du Lac. It would probably be the next best thing. It's too bad the WDOT can not buy the farmers' land- I think the beltline loop would be a perfect destination for a 3 di interstate.
Not even close to the traffic count that justifies such an interstate. Imagine the money involved in converting the road into a full freeway.
AADT: only 111,000 at most. The beltline gets another lane at Midvale Blvd (just like I-494 through the Bloomington Strip) and another auxillary lane at Seminole Hwy. But I think they should make the all of the beltline six lanes in the meantime.
Quote from: Chris petite on October 09, 2009, 04:55:20 PM
AADT: only 111,000 at most. The beltline gets another lane at Midvale Blvd (just like I-494 through the Bloomington Strip) and another auxillary lane at Seminole Hwy. But I think they should make the all of the beltline six lanes in the meantime.
Most of the heavy traffic on the beltline is on the south side. As for 151 to Dubuque, the amount of traffic on it decreases dramatically as you head southwest.
This article from today's Wisconsin State Journal highlights the coming improvements to the Fish Hatchery Rd. and Park St./US 14 interchanges and the reasons for them. The Fish hatchery Rd interchange really can be difficult and dangerous, especially at rush hour, with all the weaving. Not a lot of room to manuever. The loop ramps at both interchanges are all also rather tight, with 30-40 mph limits on them. I can't wait for the improvments to the Verona Rd. interchange (where US 18 and 151 branch off towards Dodgeville), that is always backed up, no matter the time of day.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html (http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html)
Quote from: tchafe1978 on October 09, 2009, 11:41:59 PM
This article from today's Wisconsin State Journal highlights the coming improvements to the Fish Hatchery Rd. and Park St./US 14 interchanges and the reasons for them. The Fish hatchery Rd interchange really can be difficult and dangerous, especially at rush hour, with all the weaving. Not a lot of room to manuever. The loop ramps at both interchanges are all also rather tight, with 30-40 mph limits on them. I can't wait for the improvments to the Verona Rd. interchange (where US 18 and 151 branch off towards Dodgeville), that is always backed up, no matter the time of day.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html (http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html)
What happened to the free-flow ramps and related real upgrades that were being planned at Verona Rd???? That SPUI will be obsolete before the concrete gets done setting.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
:verymad:
Mike
The free flow ramps were only one part of the study being done to improve the interchang, along with the SPUI. The DOT site doesn't make an announcement as to which alternative was chosen, but the newspaper article certainly makes it appear that the SPUI has been chosen, most likely due to lower cost a impact to the surrounding neighborhood.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d1/verona/index.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d1/verona/index.htm)
Well it looks like we have a very congested expressway here :sombrero: ! But they need to redirect traffic to where? My plan: an extension of the Verona bypass, but if theres too many NIMBYs, then they'll have to convert the existing expressway into a freeway. But then we've gone nowhere :pan: :no:
Quote from: tchafe1978 on October 09, 2009, 11:41:59 PM
This article from today's Wisconsin State Journal highlights the coming improvements to the Fish Hatchery Rd. and Park St./US 14 interchanges and the reasons for them. The Fish hatchery Rd interchange really can be difficult and dangerous, especially at rush hour, with all the weaving. Not a lot of room to manuever. The loop ramps at both interchanges are all also rather tight, with 30-40 mph limits on them. I can't wait for the improvments to the Verona Rd. interchange (where US 18 and 151 branch off towards Dodgeville), that is always backed up, no matter the time of day.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html (http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_097e5d76-cdc6-557e-ad8e-b20cf511febc.html)
Thanks for the link!
They already closed the SB Fish Hatchery to EB Beltline loop a couple days ago. One down, two to go. Can't say I'm too happy about another light in an area that has horrendous timing sequences, but I feel safer already.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_19bdb266-586d-11df-b1f6-001cc4c002e0.html
Looks like the North Mendota Parkway may yet happen.....someday.
Quote from: WISFreeways on October 10, 2009, 10:11:12 AM
Well it looks like we have a very congested expressway here :sombrero: ! But they need to redirect traffic to where? My plan: an extension of the Verona bypass, but if theres too many NIMBYs, then they'll have to convert the existing expressway into a freeway. But then we've gone nowhere :pan: :no:
Where would you route any extention of the Verona bypass? The easiest and best route for US-18/151 between Verona and the Beltline is the Verona Road corridor. Any other route means clearing a ROW that currently has hundreds of homes.
The only other alternative that is even remotely feasible is somehow routing US-18/151 eastward to the US-14 freeway around Oregon, but even that would be remarkably expensive.
There was a proposal at one time for a southern bypass in the County M corridor from the Verona bypass to I-90, but it never made it pass the proposal stage. This was back when they first started studying options for the Beltline/Verona Rd. (18/151) interchange. That proposal didn't make much sense. The Beltline handles its traffic well, the issue is the Beltline/Verona Rd. interchange and the stoplights along Verona Rd. The interchange will start seeing work in 2013 I believe.
Here's an update on the Beltline/Verona Rd. interchange project. They'll be holding the final public hearing, and construction to convert the interchange into a SPUI, along with other improvements, will begin in 2013.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_13e3c066-d666-11df-8002-001cc4c03286.html
The area residents "do not like" that it will destroy green space near the interchange? You can't be serious...the green space is patch of grass and weeds of just few dozen square feet. I think the Beltline's problems go beyond just the Verona Road interchange. The whole stretch needs to be three lanes at least, and a viable northern alternative needs to be developed.
They're continuing to piecemeal together fixes as time passes. It wasn't very long ago that the Beltline still had a railroad track crossing at-grade, for example. And the exits at Fish Hatchery and Park St. are much improved now that you're not weaving exiting traffic with entering traffic in such a short space.
The parts of the neighborhood that the full Verona Road interchange will eliminate aren't exactly vital parts. It's not cutting the neighborhood in two; it's removing old apartment buildings and scruffy business storefronts that are there for the Beltline frontage.
I'm not sold on the need for a full freeway around the northern side of Madison, at least from the standpoint of eliminating Beltline traffic. The traffic going through Madison bound elsewhere pales in comparison to traffic choosing Madison as a destination.
Oh I don't think full freeway around the north side is necessary. But many people who live on the far west side do not take the Beltline when heading into town from the north. Most often they get off at Highway V to WI-113 to Highway P to US-12. If they improved that stretch by widening, taking out the turns, bypassing Dane and giving it a common route number, it would serve that purpose quite nicely.
Regarding a north parkway, I haven't seen anything recently. I will say that they've done some work on CTH-K and CTH-M, to remove sharp curves and widen the road. Perhaps this is their idea of a north route??
The funny thing about a north route is, both 113 and 19 have been improved west of the interstate and Madison, then they dump you into downtown Waunakee, where you gotta slog through to a curvy, two-lane rural road to get to the US-12 expressway. Definitely needs improving.
Post Merge: October 26, 2010, 12:52:06 PM
The only viable, long-term solution to the Verona Rd interchange issue is to demolish the entire Nakoma/Allied area to allow for a proper high-speed interchange and freeway corridor. The irony is that this would create more green space than the area has had in the last 50 years.
Quote from: Cheesehead77 on October 24, 2010, 05:40:41 PM
The only viable, long-term solution to the Verona Rd interchange issue is to demolish the entire Nakoma/Allied area to allow for a proper high-speed interchange and freeway corridor. The irony is that this would create more green space than the area has had in the last 50 years.
They wouldn't even have to do that unless they would want 'free flow' movements between US 18/151 to the southwest and the Beltline to the west. The current 'freeway' plans would depress the freeway in the median of a 'surface' Verona Rd boulevard where the surface boulevard would actually carry only light to moderate volumes of local traffic and be a true asset to that part of town.
Why the neighbors are opposed to even that, I have no idea.
:rolleyes:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on October 25, 2010, 01:14:10 AM
Quote from: Cheesehead77 on October 24, 2010, 05:40:41 PM
The only viable, long-term solution to the Verona Rd interchange issue is to demolish the entire Nakoma/Allied area to allow for a proper high-speed interchange and freeway corridor. The irony is that this would create more green space than the area has had in the last 50 years.
They wouldn't even have to do that unless they would want 'free flow' movements between US 18/151 to the southwest and the Beltline to the west. The current 'freeway' plans would depress the freeway in the median of a 'surface' Verona Rd boulevard where the surface boulevard would actually carry only light to moderate volumes of local traffic and be a true asset to that part of town.
Why the neighbors are opposed to even that, I have no idea.
:rolleyes:
Mike
NIMBYisms I bet.
Quote from: mgk920 on October 25, 2010, 01:14:10 AM
Why the neighbors are opposed to even that, I have no idea.
:rolleyes:
Mike
No kidding. It's mostly rental/ lease property in that area.