I figured I would create a new topic, but after seeing the discussion about I-12 around New Orleans and the related discussion of I-10 and I-59, I find it interesting that I-59 has its termini near Chattanooga and New Orleans, but technically never reaches either city.
I-59 would have had more of a chance of reaching New Orleans if I-10 would have been routed differently (parallel to US 90 across the Rigolets). I wonder if I-24 was proposed to be routed in such a way that would have allowed I-59 to reach Chattanooga proper?
Given the geography of that stretch, I dont see how much could have been changed routing wise for any of the three interstates around Chattanooga.
If it were up to me I-24 would have its eastern terminus at the junction of I-59, and I-59 would have continued into Chattanooga where it would terminate at I-75. If anything that would eliminate that weird dip of I-24 from Tennessee into Georgia and back into Tennessee.
I don't see how I-59 could have been routed into New Orleans and continued beyond downtown.
Quote from: Charles2 on January 20, 2013, 10:00:54 PM
If it were up to me I-24 would have its eastern terminus at the junction of I-59, and I-59 would have continued into Chattanooga where it would terminate at I-75. If anything that would eliminate that weird dip of I-24 from Tennessee into Georgia and back into Tennessee.
I don't see how I-59 could have been routed into New Orleans and continued beyond downtown.
I wonder why I-24 dips into Georgia for a few miles only to go back into Tennessee. I think that's weird.
Quote from: Speedway99 on January 20, 2013, 10:39:17 PM
I wonder why I-24 dips into Georgia for a few miles only to go back into Tennessee. I think that's weird.
The topography is mountainous in that area so that was a way to keep the highway in interstate standards.
Something needs to be done about I-59 through Meridian. That is very poorly substandard. Perhaps this should be rerouted south of town on that existing freeway piggybacking with US 45.
I-59 could be extended to Eastern New Orleans by multiplexing it with I-10 to I-510. I would also extend the current I-510 all the way to LA 39 - Judge Perez Dr in Chalmette and renumber it as I-59.
Quote from: lamsalfl on January 20, 2013, 11:52:34 PM
Something needs to be done about I-59 through Meridian. That is very poorly substandard. Perhaps this should be rerouted south of town on that existing freeway piggybacking with US 45.
I suppose they could cantilever the roadways over the service roads to add some extra lanes, but for a majority of the trip through Meridian, the interstate is at the same level, so they'd have to raise the whole roadway 20 feet to make it work.
If you use the US45 corridor, you still need a 6-8 mile jog westward for it to reach the current I-59, south of the airport.
Quote from: apjung on January 21, 2013, 03:43:15 AM
I-59 could be extended to Eastern New Orleans by multiplexing it with I-10 to I-510. I would also extend the current I-510 all the way to LA 39 - Judge Perez Dr in Chalmette and renumber it as I-59.
So you want to destroy pretty much every building on Paris Road? Even if there was space, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to have I-59 piggyback for 20 miles on I-10 just to have a stub ending at Judge Perez. For spur routes like this we use 3di numbers.
Suppose an I-75 bypass of Chattanooga gets built, and I-75 is routed onto it. Then I-59 is multiplexed with I-24 though Chattanooga, I-24 is routed southeastward along former I-75 to the southern end of the bypass, and I-59 is routed northeastward along the former I-75 to the northern end. How would the mileposts and exit numbers work?
As somebody who as driven I-24 for many decades, I can say that I-24 is a more important route than I-59, and that could be why I-24 is signed through Chatanooga instead of I-59. The traffic is heavier between Chatanooga and Nashville than between Chatanooga and Birmingham, and I-24 is the main connector route between much of the midwest and Florida and other parts of the southeast, including the Atlanta area.
As far as why I-24 dips into Georgia, the answer would be topography. Plus, US 41 snakes along adjacent the Tennessee River approaching Chattanooga from the west and there is no room for a parallel roadway along that route. US 41 has half slid into the river in places anyway, it is a stressful drive (although it is scenic), especially in the westbound direction.
QuoteAs somebody who as driven I-24 for many decades, I can say that I-24 is a more important route than I-59, and that could be why I-24 is signed through Chatanooga instead of I-59. The traffic is heavier between Chatanooga and Nashville than between Chatanooga and Birmingham, and I-24 is the main connector route between much of the midwest and Florida and other parts of the southeast, including the Atlanta area.
As far as why I-24 dips into Georgia, the answer would be topography. Plus, US 41 snakes along adjacent the Tennessee River approaching Chattanooga from the west and there is no room for a parallel roadway along that route. US 41 has half slid into the river in places anyway, it is a stressful drive (although it is scenic), especially in the westbound direction.
Concerning traffic volumes, you are very right. I-24 is very heavily traveled, and I-59 is very lightly traveled.
Concerning highway routings west of Chattanooga, I suspect US 41/64/72/Hidden SR 2 was built on the alignment along the river strictly for the purpose of staying in Tennessee. It would have made much more sense for it to have been built on the alignment that I-24 takes today. The routing along the river is longer than the I-24 routing, and was more difficult to built and maintain due to it being on a mountainside. And, yes, there are several spots that are sliding into the river due to a lack of retaining walls. At one spot, the shoulder has dropped about 10 inches, and there are no cones around it. At another location, the entire westbound lane has dropped 1 inch, and the guardrail posts are hanging in the air.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on January 21, 2013, 08:36:57 PM
As somebody who as driven I-24 for many decades, I can say that I-24 is a more important route than I-59, and that could be why I-24 is signed through Chatanooga instead of I-59. The traffic is heavier between Chatanooga and Nashville than between Chatanooga and Birmingham, and I-24 is the main connector route between much of the midwest and Florida and other parts of the southeast, including the Atlanta area.
I think the fact that a lane closure along I-24 just east of I-59 creates a backup that's eight miles long on a Saturday afternoon is a testament to that. Traffic always seems to be heavy on I-24. I wish TDOT would seriously look into widening it between Nashville and Chattanooga.
QuoteI think the fact that a lane closure along I-24 just east of I-59 creates a backup that's eight miles long on a Saturday afternoon is a testament to that. Traffic always seems to be heavy on I-24. I wish TDOT would seriously look into widening it between Nashville and Chattanooga.
Yeah, its rather overcrowded.
This pic was taken June 2010 on I-24 between Kimball and Monteagle:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2FBrian5561%2FslrTN2010002.jpg&hash=d16329a593818b208bfd9cee272fb3ade9b09637)
If you like miles of backed-up traffic on I-24, try driving it when the Bonaroo is going on in the Manchester area. That is usually held in early June every year.
Some 1960s General Drafting maps show (likely in error), I-59 continuing southwest from Slidell.
Just drove I-59 north from Birmingham to I-24. The 12 miles of construction knocking I-59 down to one lane north from Gadsden was a bit of a pain. I thought that work would have been completed by now (went through it in November 2011).
Regarding I-59 in Slidell: the original planning for the Interstate system had I-10 following US 90 more closely, with I-59 meeting I-10 somewhere in East New Orleans. I do not know when I-10 was moved to what became it's current routing.
QuoteSomething needs to be done about I-59 through Meridian. That is very poorly substandard. Perhaps this should be rerouted south of town on that existing freeway piggybacking with US 45.
I-20/59 was upgraded through Meridian from the old Tom Bailey Drive in the 1970s. It may not be optimum, and could stand to have some additional auxiliary lanes, but it's a lot closer to spec than many other thru-city Interstate routes. Meanwhile, a "southern bypass" was considered at one time in local/state planning (as recently as the 1990s), but at this point, given the cost of building a new freeway south of the airport between I-59 and US 45, you might as well upgrade 20/59 through town, nevermind that you'd still have I-20 going through town unless you extended such bypass up to I-20 near Lost Gap (or had I-20 backtracking on existing I-59).
Regarding I-24: while it may appear "overcrowded" in that photo Brian posted, it's still moving. Also, much of I-24 between Murfreesboro and Chattanooga is below the normal thresholds at which a DOT would consider widening. East of I-59, absolutely. Arguably yes east of US 72 at Kimball. But between Kimball and Murfreesboro, I-24 AADT is less than 40K. At those volumes, it may feel CROWDED but it typically stays moving and isn't CONGESTED unless there's an incident or lane closure downstream, in which case even a 6-lane road would likely feel the impacts.
Which isn't to say that I-24 couldn't still see improvements between Murfreesboro and Kimball. Hill climbing lanes, especially on the grades west of Monteagle, would still be useful. But a full blown widening would, IMO, be a poor use of funds given more pressing traffic needs elsewhere.
Was I-59 built first between Meridian & Birmingham, then I-20 came along later?
Did that substandard section through Laurel, MS get re-done?
Quote from: amroad17 on February 03, 2013, 06:54:10 AM
Did that substandard section through Laurel, MS get re-done?
http://www.google.com/search?q=I-59+laurel
Interesting result - as-built plans for the original road in 1960 (including signage): http://ftp.mdot.state.ms.us/ftp/Traffic%20Engineering/I-59%20Laurel%20Signing%20As-builts/5353_I-59-2%2814%2992_DUP1/5353_I-59-2%2814%2992_DUP1.pdf
What's with the parking area on pp. 27-28?
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on January 21, 2013, 08:36:57 PM
As somebody who as driven I-24 for many decades, I can say that I-24 is a more important route than I-59, and that could be why I-24 is signed through Chatanooga instead of I-59. The traffic is heavier between Chatanooga and Nashville than between Chatanooga and Birmingham, and I-24 is the main connector route between much of the midwest and Florida and other parts of the southeast, including the Atlanta area.
As far as why I-24 dips into Georgia, the answer would be topography. Plus, US 41 snakes along adjacent the Tennessee River approaching Chattanooga from the west and there is no room for a parallel roadway along that route. US 41 has half slid into the river in places anyway, it is a stressful drive (although it is scenic), especially in the westbound direction.
I guess Chattanooga wanted a single numbers interstate to Nashville, and also one even and one odd (75 being the odd). I would've sent 59 into Chattanooga anyway, eliminating the ugly Georgia dip, and also Tennessee would've gained another 2di. I guess there was no way to route them so both 24 and 59 could've reached Chattanooga proper? Maybe they could've had the 2 run concurrent until I-75.
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 03, 2013, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on January 21, 2013, 08:36:57 PM
As somebody who as driven I-24 for many decades, I can say that I-24 is a more important route than I-59, and that could be why I-24 is signed through Chatanooga instead of I-59. The traffic is heavier between Chatanooga and Nashville than between Chatanooga and Birmingham, and I-24 is the main connector route between much of the midwest and Florida and other parts of the southeast, including the Atlanta area.
As far as why I-24 dips into Georgia, the answer would be topography. Plus, US 41 snakes along adjacent the Tennessee River approaching Chattanooga from the west and there is no room for a parallel roadway along that route. US 41 has half slid into the river in places anyway, it is a stressful drive (although it is scenic), especially in the westbound direction.
I guess Chattanooga wanted a single numbers interstate to Nashville, and also one even and one odd (75 being the odd). I would've sent 59 into Chattanooga anyway, eliminating the ugly Georgia dip, and also Tennessee would've gained another 2di. I guess there was no way to route them so both 24 and 59 could've reached Chattanooga proper? Maybe they could've had the 2 run concurrent until I-75.
I was only there as a child, but I recall signage being for both 24 and 59 at least heading west.
Signage on I-75 south does say "To I-59" and there are a number of To I-59 trailblazers along I-24 in Chattanooga.
QuoteDid that substandard section through Laurel, MS get re-done?
Part of it has. The other part is in-process.
Quote from: Tom958 on January 21, 2013, 08:33:04 PM
Suppose an I-75 bypass of Chattanooga gets built, and I-75 is routed onto it. Then I-59 is multiplexed with I-24 though Chattanooga, I-24 is routed southeastward along former I-75 to the southern end of the bypass, and I-59 is routed northeastward along the former I-75 to the northern end. How would the mileposts and exit numbers work?
I-59 would be a candidate for expansion from Chattanooga north along US-27 and Tenn. 111 to Cookeville with a terminus at I-40. If that were to happen, then there would be a multiplex between the western junction of the two highways and the present US-27 north exit downtown. This route appears to be freeway or divided highway for > 80% of the distance between Chattanooga and Cookeville now, but was it designed to be of interstate standard?
^ North of Dunlap, no. Nevermind that the 24/111 interchange in Cookeville is a diamond with intersections immediately adjacent to it.
The canceled Interstate 175 between Chattanooga, TN and Lexington, KY probably should have been proposed as an extension of Interstate 59. I think that would have been a better number than making it 175.
^ I wouldn't even call "I-175" cancelled. It was nothing more than an idea floated by Kentucky officials that managed to get some money for a feasibility study in 2002. Clearly it didn't go very far.
Though it would have its challenges, that I-59 extension is an intriguing idea that I had never heard of or thought about before, especially since a good bit of US 27 and TN 111 in the area are already limited-access. Although, it is probably not needed, and upgrades to parts of TN 111 could suffice if necessary.