http://goo.gl/maps/OoNRN
found this unusual intersection here in San Diego today. the road is striped so that Trade Pl (coming from the north) and Trade St (coming from the west) are a continuous double yellow. Trade St coming from the east has a stop, and Trade Pl has a yield which is technically superfluous but is a helpful reminder to traffic turning left (east).
what do we all think of this style of T intersection? useful, or too fraught with potential for a catastrophic left turn, yield sign and all?
Md. 256 (Deale Road) does this in the small Chesapeake Bay town of Deale. Going south on 256, it makes a pretty sharp left turn just after crossing a bridge over Rockhold Creek (a tidewater arm of the Chesapeake).
Google maps here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=deale+md&hl=en&ll=38.782525,-76.55974&spn=0.004675,0.009645&safe=off&hnear=Deale,+Anne+Arundel,+Maryland&gl=us&t=h&z=17).
In Washington, D.C.'s Rock Creek Park, Beach Drive (the main two-lane parkway that runs most of the length of the park) makes a right when headed north at Broad Branch Road, N.W. It's not as sharp as it once was, since the National Park Service re-engineered the intersection to make that right turn more "natural."
Google maps here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rock+creek+park&hl=en&ll=38.944215,-77.049678&spn=0.002349,0.004823&sll=32.889101,-117.153895&sspn=0.001268,0.002411&hq=rock+creek+park&t=h&z=18).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 24, 2013, 12:33:21 PM
what do we all think of this style of T intersection? useful, or too fraught with potential for a catastrophic left turn, yield sign and all?
The one on Md. 256 that I mention above has worked well for many, many decades. I cannot recall anyone making the mistake of not making the turn.
The one on Beach Drive was modified to make the turn more "natural."
Although not T intersections, but typical 4-way intersections, US-2/141 does a one of those in Florence, Wisconsin: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=45.923065,-88.244398&spn=0.001937,0.005284&t=h&z=18 From E/S US-2/141: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=45.92309,-88.244783&spn=0.003903,0.010568&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.92309,-88.244783&panoid=PuiqPsdE6JaCsfVDF5F3nA&cbp=12,14.06,,0,2.65
And another in Crystal Falls, Michigan: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=46.097731,-88.333871&spn=0.001931,0.005284&t=h&z=18 From E/S US-2/141: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=46.097802,-88.334284&spn=0.001945,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=46.097799,-88.334023&panoid=e5ivD7UCXF87hpbxokIFdw&cbp=12,67.37,,0,-18
Illinois handles it differently for IL-115 in SW Kankakee County: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.05358,-88.210607&spn=0.002116,0.005284&t=h&z=18 From S IL-115: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.053628,-88.210065&spn=0.008398,0.021136&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.053621,-88.210207&panoid=wK7DVKSVP4o14ciVMStofA&cbp=12,270.13,,0,3.11
Because the 3rd leg appears more/less like a driveway to a business (or businesses) and not really a thru road, it's probably not as important how the street is lined. Overall though, the yellow line thru the intersection probably isn't needed.
One T intersection I'm familiar with near me is similar in nature with the Yield sign, but no markings in the intersection, and the thru road doesn't have a Yield/Stop sign in either direction as well.
I recall a few other intersections like these growing up, but they've been replaced with more traditional intersections designs, including traffic lights.
Springfield Twp., Delaware County, PA:
Providence Road & Leamy Ave. - heading westbound, Providence Road turns left onto a dead-end road whereas Leamy Ave. continues straight.
Pennsylvania has quite a lot. Here are just a few of the many that exist...
-PA 320 (Sproul Road) at Springfield Road (http://goo.gl/maps/yQqN8) in Broomall
-PA 926 at Creek Road (Old PA 100) (http://goo.gl/maps/n3AW8) in Pocopson, then it does it again twice at Newark Road (http://goo.gl/maps/7et4l) near Kennett Square
-PA 183 at New Schaefferstown Road (http://goo.gl/maps/nrtwg) near Bernville
-Gradyville Road at the entrance to Ridley Creek State Park (http://goo.gl/maps/uKxmB) in Middletown Township
-Manchester Avenue at Rose Valley Road (http://goo.gl/maps/4ODqx) here in Media
I don't find that intersection to be very unusual, especially in small towns and rural areas. Think of a minor rural highway that makes a 90° turn, but where a gravel road continues straight to follow the section line. Same kind of deal. The only thing I find unusual is that erroneous yield sign (I assume a yield sign should never be posted where cross traffic has a stop sign, but should instead have a "traffic from right does not stop" placard). Generally, one of the following controls are used:
(a) No stop or yield sign at all for the primary road; yield or stop sign for the side road. This is the way it's almost always done when the double yellow is continuous around the bend.
(b) Stop signs for all three legs. This is usually only found where the primary road is not striped.
(c) Stop or yield sign for the terminating leg of the T. This is usually only found where the primary road is not striped, or where the stripe follows the "top" end of the T rather than following the primary road.
(d) Uncontrolled intersection, no stop or yield signs at all. This is for very low-traffic intersections, but wouldn't be all that uncommon in industrial parks or the like.
Don't even start on NJ. So many 17th-19th century roads were laid out with doglegs, hairpins, angles, etc., and then later roads (or even older roads) were brought in right at the turn with a different name. I could probably get into the dozens within a 2-county radius.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on January 24, 2013, 02:01:07 PM
PA 926 at Creek Road (Old PA 100) (http://goo.gl/maps/n3AW8) in Pocopson
That particular intersection is actually 2 intersections very close together or an elongated 4-way depending on how one looks at it.
BTW,
Bing Maps shows that stretch of road between the 2 intersections as being Creek Road with the northern intersection meeting the thread topic criteria based on street name and
old route number (PA 100). Street Road is briefly interrupted here. In terms of current route numbers, PA 926 east of the southern intersection meets the thread topic criteria.
Additionally, my ADC Atlas, which lists Street Block numbers along the roads, shows
1200 between the 2 intersections and another
1200 west of the intersectin along Street Road (PA 926). The former is likely the 1200 block of Creek Road.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on January 24, 2013, 02:01:07 PMthen it does it again twice at Newark Road (http://goo.gl/maps/7et4l) near Kennett Square
In terms of Route number, yes; street name, no. The link between the 2 intersections is Newark Road as opposed to Street Road (which is again interrupted). At the southern/eastern intersection; are both the T-intersection w/Newark Road and the dogleg (which is part of PA 926) considered as Street Road or just one of them?
Google Earth shows the bottom of the triangle as
State Route 926, which is not correct based on the signage and other road maps.
A couple more in Delaware County, PA:
PA 252 & Providence Road in Upper Providence Twp. Providence road breaks left from PA 252, which continues north as Palmers Mill Road.
US 13/Chester Pike/MacDade Blvd. in Darby Borough; a 4-way intersection where
both street names change places/corridors.
Quote from: Steve on January 24, 2013, 05:56:05 PM
Don't even start on NJ. So many 17th-19th century roads were laid out with doglegs, hairpins, angles, etc., and then later roads (or even older roads) were brought in right at the turn with a different name. I could probably get into the dozens within a 2-county radius.
Sounds an a bit like PA.
This is what Pennsylvania's 'stop except right turn' is for.
Anyway, more of an acute X than a T, but Broadway and St. Nick bump in upper Manhattan.
These do present some serious problems concerning right-of way confusion.
The primary hazard is when the primary road turns, and traffic going straight must cross oncoming traffic that does not yield.
In general, the puppy-tracked centerline is not adequate in my opinion to warn drivers to yield, because it is not visable from an adequate distance.
Something that could help would be to add side road indications to the sharp turn warning signs, and require 48x24 yellow arrow signs at the intersection for the primary road.
Also, the european-style white square sign with a thick line indicating the primary road with right-of-way, and a thin line to indicate the lesser road could be placed at the intersection for extra emphasis.
The "YIELD EXEPT RIGHT TURN" would be the best for preventing accidents, but would be disadvantagous because the majority of drivers; to whom it does not apply, would have to observe and deciepher its message.
This situation needs to be adressed in the MUTCD, and a standardized signing/marking scheme created.
Here's one in Marion Co, TN with just horrible signing. Both signs are wrong, one in two ways. it's at SR 27 & East Valley Rd
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2FBrian5561%2FTNTrip2012Samsung116.jpg&hash=2a6b5e1b7568097f51d0b70bc54efa3b75775b8d)
(https://6f6aua.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pTdSZ9XUNvITLUReFzNEsYJvWrKlEqvSBXEgykUYWRVRmDu2F1B0N1zbORfYVKBzFonvKoT3zWMMySi5OykZQyQd1RJaV1F3j/us7%20wall.PNG?psid=1)US-7 in Norwalk, CT Connecticut A perfectly good expressway runs into a wall. Note the funkiness is due to 3D mode on google maps. There have been plans for 50 years to eliminate this. There have been so many accidents because this setup
We'd break the Internet if we tried to list all examples.
Quote from: NE2 on January 24, 2013, 07:11:09 PM
This is what Pennsylvania's 'stop except right turn' is for.
It's used (https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.437868,-79.913094&spn=0.002364,0.005681&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.437868,-79.913094&panoid=SAfkfKDIgEGsI5nIBzXTfQ&cbp=12,187.65,,0,0.93) on the Dallas-to-Beacon connection in Pittsburgh, which is a doozy.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.438161,-79.913065&spn=0.002364,0.005681&t=m&z=18
Traffic coming from the north on Dallas gets a free right turn onto Beechwood and then a free left turn onto Beacon. Cars already on Beechwood have to stop to allow these motions. Coming from Beacon, there is a stop sign where the street ends at Beechwood, but then the left turn onto Dallas is free.
The whole thing basically amounts to a protected dog-leg maneuver, which is kind of nice because it is an important connection and it suits the general flow of traffic. Though it can be confusing to people who aren't familiar with the intersections, because they'll assume there's a stop sign where there isn't one.
Orlando used to have one where CR 527 used to cross the CSX tracks near what used to be Flamingo, FL. Now since the grade crossing has been eliminated, the new bridge creates a straight through alignment for CR 527.
Also, in Taft, FL, before CR 527 was widened to four lanes, it made a turn in Downtown Taft. When the road was dualized a bypass was built of Downtown and the old alignment of Orange Avenue was turned into a culd de sac.
In New Jersey, as Steve pointed out, it could go on for ever. One worth mentioning, though, is Stuyvesant Avenue at the Union, NJ and Irvington, NJ border. It comes NB out of Union to make a 90 degree turn to head east, while straight through becomes 40th Street. Then after it turns east it again turns north at a four way intersection where Walker Avenue heads south and Mill Road continues east.
Then in Bernards, NJ back in the 80's when an office park was added on CR 525 just north of I-287, it was then made where CR 525 started to make a turn and therefore Mount Airy Road (525's local street name) now changes alignment at a stop light. CR 525 did not turn originally and you traveled around a slight curve that was not at all 90 degrees as it is now through this added intersection.
In Virginia, at the South-West end of the US 1 & US 58 overlap near South Hill, it used to be where US 58 was a T into US 1. Since US 58 was widened from two to four lanes, US 58 is now the main straight through, while US 1 now turns. This is due primarily that I-85 took the heavy load off of US 1, making US 58 more used by motorists and over the years having more traffic to be widened what it became now.
Chinook Rd and 43rd St near Crooked River Ranch and Terrebonne, OR. https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=44.388664,-121.218836&spn=0.000531,0.001321&t=h&z=20
The road that "ends" has a Curve ahead (10 mph) warning sign and no stop sign. The road that goes straight has a STOP sign, but with a "Right turn permitted without stopping" sign, because 98% of the traffic is turning right.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDEb7SqU.jpg&hash=b73af0552a40887c2f6253209a687955dff6e85a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FEgTsUWW.jpg&hash=802df74342325527711dd2424be9e235b6299c7b)
Hunter Mill Road (changes direction) and Sunrise Valley Drive near Reston, Virginia. The intersection has a traffic light. Used to be the only signage was a street blade sign–very easy to miss the turn.
Can't figure out how to get a Google Maps link on the iPad, so no link.
PA 501 south of Bethel, PA comes from the west and turns north at this intersection (http://goo.gl/maps/vZCvk). Construction (now finished) to turn this into a signalized T started pretty much right after this satellite view was taken. :P
Though not a T, 501 does the opposite (http://goo.gl/maps/Azlro) in Bethel proper. This intersection was actually done at the time of the satellite view, but it was just repaving and restriping, and is now signalized. Following Legion Drive straight north and "crossing" 78, you can see where 501 used to go. The east-west cross street is old US 22.
Does this (http://goo.gl/maps/szE2U) immediately west of the second example count?
Quote from: NE2 on January 24, 2013, 07:11:09 PMThis is what Pennsylvania's 'stop except right turn' is for.
Thus far, the majority of the examples that Ian & I listed do
not have a
STOP EXCEPT RIGHT TURN sign.
One example that does have a sign is in Aston, Twp. (Delaware County, PA) is the intersection of Concord Road & Tryrens Road at Aston Elementary school.
Another example to the topic at hand is at the intersection of Bishop Ave. & Garrett Road in Upper Darby Twp (Delaware County, PA). Bishop Ave. branches from a divided roadway north onto a 2-lane road. Note: until a few years ago, Bishop Ave./Garrett Road was striped as a 4-laner.
I can think of a couple in Nashville, Tennessee:
Blair Blvd. ends and Chesterfield Avenue turns.
West End Avenue ends and Broadway turns, at 16th Avenue North/South.
Bell Road ends and Old Hickory Blvd. turns.
I know there are many more there.
In Apex, North Carolina, Davis Drive ends and North Salem Street turns.
Plainfield Avenue in South Plainfield, NJ turns where Sampton Avenue ends.
Clinton Avenue turns at the other end of Sampton Avenue.
Even more interesting, Clinton Avenue at New Market Avenue just south of Sampton does a double turn on and off New Market, as Clinton Avenue is not aligned properly at New Market. Total of 3 consecutive turns on Clinton Avenue in less than a half mile.
Petersburg, VA. Halifax Road does this twice in this area.
http://m.google.com/u/m/AiDr7N
As I thought about this thread some more I recalled that US-501 changes directions at T-intersections at least three times in Virginia (in Rustburg, in Brookneal, and in Halifax; if you distinguish between the business route and the main route, it does it three times in Halifax).
NY has too many examples to count. There are also places where the "left turn" has been re-striped to become a straight.
Breezewood.
In the WDW resort in Florida, Buena Vista Drive now turns at Hotel Plaza Boulevard. In the past Hotel Plaza Boulevard ended at a "T" with Buena Vista Drive. The intersection was reconfigured recently and now Hotel Plaza and Buena Vista leading to and from the All Star Resort are one continuous road, and the other direction of Buena Vista to CR 535 in the WDW warehouse area is the side road.
US 59 at OK 9. Except it's a + intersection instead of a T. And it's going away.
NH 43 in Deerfield where it turns from Old Candia Road to S Road (just south of the fairgrounds).