AARoads Forum

Just curious how many of us here use a GPS even though we know a lot of the roads we travel.  I like to use one in cities and also because I like how mine will give you the exact mileage and ETA to your destination.  How about you guys?  Do you ever use them or do you consider them "cheating"?

I use the Google Map features on my phone quite frequently, especially for syncing destinations, creating a route, retracing my steps, seeing "what's over there" and county collecting. I use the GPS feature if I'm completely lost, or to get me out of a jam. I have a habit of making myself a route, and diverging from it out of curiosity, wanderlust, or the onset of some sort of ADD/ADHD.

I don't really like to use Street View much, because it feels like it ruins "the surprise", although if some exact  destination doesn't seem quite right on the map, I'll bounce between aerial photos and Street View to double  check.

I like paper maps (I'll stare at one for an hour, easily) but I don't collect nor carry them on my travels...my job requires a bit of travelling light.

I never travel with GPS on all the time. If I'm at home & I'm driving somewhere new, I will sit down and memorize the instructions using Google Maps depending how complex it is (or scribble down notes that make sense to me). If I'm in the car already and need to go somewhere new, I'll do much the same on my phone but might let it navigate me too.

Other then that, I like traveling without tech. Just me & knowing the streets. Feels great knowing where you're truly going... and always able to figure out (or know) an alternate route if things are closed or there's bad traffic.

edit: I never have or use paper road maps or atlases too.

I was doing very well without one, and I always drive with a stack of atlases and maps. I, however, recently got a smartphone and I like to mess around with it, or for quick routing to spots when I'm trainspotting, or finding a street in a dense city. I also use it to record GPX files of my trips so I can geotag my photos later.

I own one but rarely use it. On a long trip, I will usually use Google Maps in combination with a paper atlas to determine a route and, if I need to manuever in what looks like a complex stretch of highway, may "drive" the route on GSV.

No, I do not have a GPS. 

For trips to unknown areas, I'll get directions from MapQuest and stock up on road maps serving the area.  Since I'm a member of AAA, I could conceivably get an infinite amount of maps at no charge.

After seeing people my age and older, who have driven for years without a GPS, turn absolutely stupid and have delusions of god-hood over those devices (see my signature below); I have absolutely no interest nor desire in getting one.

I have one. It gets used more often as a speedometer than as a map. :)

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on January 29, 2013, 10:04:31 AM
Just curious how many of us here use a GPS even though we know a lot of the roads we travel.  I like to use one in cities and also because I like how mine will give you the exact mileage and ETA to your destination.  How about you guys?  Do you ever use them or do you consider them "cheating"?

I have a built-in navigation system in my Acura and I almost always have the screen turned on and showing the map, but I don't usually turn on routing unless I need to find an unfamiliar address or I want to seek out an ATM or a gas station or the like in an area I don't know as well. I'll also sometimes turn it on for longer drives even when I know the route because I find it convenient to be able to use the "detour" option if we hit traffic and I want to bail out onto unfamiliar roads. That's one area in which I prefer the built-in device with its joystick to a touchscreen device like a Garmin or the mapping devices on my iPhone or iPad–if I'm in slow traffic, the joystick makes it a lot easier to pan around the nearby area looking for alternate routes compared to flicking my finger on a touchscreen. (Sometimes when the nearby roads are really rural back roads the thing just doesn't want to route me onto them and having the ability to pan it to figure out where a road goes is useful.)

With that said, my built-in device dates from 2004 and, while I've updated the trunk-mounted DVD containing the maps and points-of-interest database, there are some features that did not exist back then, the main one being traffic information. For that I have the Waze app on my iPhone. I don't normally drive with it turned on because it drains the battery more quickly and because I'm not keen on letting someone potentially track my movements, but when I get stuck in traffic I'll sometimes turn it on to check out how far the backup extends or how the alternate routes look. For example, on our way south this past Christmas I-26 ground to a halt as we approached I-95, and a check of Waze revealed an extended backup on southbound I-95. So we stayed on I-26, turned on the Acura sat-nav, and went a different way. What happens there is that the Acura sat-nav would route us onto I-95 but I'd immediately hit the button and tell it "Detour" and it plots a new route (in this case it sent us all the way to I-526 and then back west on US-17).

I'll also sometimes turn on the sat-nav routing for the reason the OP states about getting estimated time and distance info, especially if I'm meeting people and I expect they might call to say "where are you" or "how much longer." My brother-in-law does that a lot, probably because he has two kids we don't see too often and they get excited when we're coming to visit. So if I have the navigation giving me routing info I can say "45 miles" or whatever. (He lives in the Miami area and I just haven't driven those roads often enough to have a sense for remaining distance without the navigation, whereas if I were on the Jersey Turnpike or any of the roads in Virginia I'd know how far I have left pretty much just by looking around.)

I prefer using the sat-nav while driving to using paper maps because I used to throw the paper map on the passenger seat, but that's no longer an option since I got married a few years back. Ms1995hoo doesn't seem to do particularly well reading maps, so I prefer not to use her as a navigator.

With all that said, I should add that I do tend to look over either a paper atlas or an online map (Google or Bing) before hitting the road if I'm either heading to an area I don't know well or using a different route. That way I have a sense of where I'm going without putting blind faith in the navigation device. This is also important because of things like knowing which cities I might pass through so that I can anticipate things like traffic because, as I said earlier, the device won't plan for that sort of thing. The online maps might also make me aware of things like new roads that might not be in the database on the DVD yet.

Don't know if any of you geocache on here, but that's what I use mine for.

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on January 29, 2013, 10:04:31 AM
Just curious how many of us here use a GPS even though we know a lot of the roads we travel.  I like to use one in cities and also because I like how mine will give you the exact mileage and ETA to your destination.  How about you guys?  Do you ever use them or do you consider them "cheating"?

I do not.  I also don't want one.  I estimate ETA and mileage in my head and figure out where I'm going from paper maps and memory as well as a bit of dead reckoning.

I used to when I got it as a gift, but I quickly stopped when I realized it ruined all of the fun of driving for me!

Now I just use it for teaching Drivers Ed in the Summer... gives me the ability to find quick roads to turn on... and I can use the speed feature as a cheat to see if the youngin' is violating speed laws. Also, freaks them out... "is that tracking me?" "Yep."  :D

ICTRds

Quote from: colinstu on January 29, 2013, 10:48:39 AMand always able to figure out (or know) an alternate route if things are closed or there's bad traffic.

that's exactly what I use a GPS for.  the other day, I was in Tucson and I-10 was flooded, so I used my phone map to tell me exactly what set of industrial back roads to take to avoid the mess.  There's no way in Hell I could've intuited a 5-mile detour like that.

I think GPS have their place and the only reason I haven't used one yet is that I haven't really taken the time to sit down and learn to use one.  I was on vacation in New Mexico last September and turned off US 64 just west of the Rio Grande to find the John Dunn Bridge, the old, low-level crossing which has now been superseded by the longer, newer, higher, and much more stylish deck truss bridge to the south.  The itinerary I was following was not shown on the single-sheet map, and I did not have a DeLorme atlas with me.  I was able to make it by orienteering since it was a clear day, but the road was unpaved and rough with numerous low depressions of the kind that threaten suspension components and the engine oil pan.  A smartphone with GPS, or even the know-how to use the console GPS the car actually had, would have removed the need for me to rely on the sun and a dim memory of the route as shown in Google Maps.  This would in turn have reassured me of my ability to connect to NM 522 on the other side of the river without being stranded in the middle of nowhere with a busted oil pan.

I have a basic phone GPS. I seldom if ever use it for navigation but have occasionally used it for traffic as well as the occasional finding the nearest or en route location of food or gas. Let me stipulate that I have only used very basic models, but I have played with this one app enough to think of it as only a toy, not really a tool.  It can be fun to see the routes it selects as compared to the ones I select - I usually beat the shortest distance or fastest time. Then again, I know the technology is evolving and improving....

I have the Verizon Wireless GPS software on my  Blackberry (yes, I am stuck in the past), but I don't use it very frequently.   

Every once in a while, it is useful.

Even though I am an avid traveler and love traveling down the highway, I'm also an avid techie. I consistently use my GPS, and I will use no brand other than Garmin.

Here's my reasoning: I always enjoy reading atlases, something I used since I knew how to read. I like to think of my GPS as a portable atlas, and when the time comes to get somewhere, I like to see how it gets me there.

On the same token, I (like all of you here) know that signs in the real world are the final authority and not to treat everything the GPS tells you as gospel.

Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on January 29, 2013, 12:47:46 PMsigns in the real world are the final authority

nope, the road itself is the final authority.  if I see an old diamond caution sign in a field corresponding to a road that hasn't existed in 50 years ... I'm gonna walk over to take a photo!

I rarely use one.  I like maps.  I travel 10-12,000 miles per year on my motorcycle plus 5-10,000 in the car.  The car has one but I rarely use it.  My wife does use it on business trips but I find it a pain as it usually does not give the best route unless it is interstate.  I will use MapQuest for distances and get a rough idea.  However, when it comes to navigating it is paper maps.  The GPS has been wrong or of no help too often for me to have faith in it.  I have used the one in the car to find a place to eat or sleep and even fuel once.

Since I'm someone who isn't too good at estimating mileage in my head, I do thoroughly enjoy the feature of my GPS that will tell you exactly how many miles it is to the destination.  As someone else stated, as much as I love looking at paper maps and road atlases, I'm also a tech junkie to some degree.  I like that if you have your GPS on, you have everything in a road atlas right at the tip of your fingers.  It's like a mobile road atlas to me, as someone else called it.  While I'm driving along, it's cool to see exactly where you are visually on the map and see it change as you progress.

I finally bought a relatively inexpensive GPS (Tom Tom XXL 540) a couple of years ago when I was going to rural upstate New York as part of a model railroad operations weekend sponsored by a group outside of Albany,  Even though I had plotted my course with maps and "step by step" directions, which I brought with me, I found it made a huge difference in getting around unfamilar terrain.

That being said, I generally don't use the GPS that often locally.  Every now and again, I'll take it with me on a longer trip so I can keep the battery charged.  "Sarah" has generally been accurate, but will ocassionally lag at informing me of turns or give some interesting errors.  For one, insisting that Exit 7 on I-87 (Northway) is a left exit, when it's not nor has it ever been.  She also hates it when I turn around mid-stream to go back and get a picture of something like an overhead sign (like I did on MA Route 2 east last fall after passing under the big warning sign at the top of the Hairpin Turn).   And when she refers to the I-95/MA 128 overlap as "Interstate Ninety-Five South - Highway South - Highway One Hundred Twenty Eight South to XX" , just priceless.

And I do really like the speedometer feature.  I'm generally not a lead-footed driver, so it's handy to have the bell go off if I become distracted and get going a bit too fast above the posted limit.

Quote from: US 41 on January 29, 2013, 11:30:07 AM
Don't know if any of you geocache on here, but that's what I use mine for.

Does geohashing (http://xkcd.com/426/) count?

When I'm just puttering around the San Francisco Bay Area, I'll leave my GPS at home with two exceptions.  First is if I'm headed to any location within the city of San Francisco.  I'm really good at map memorization EXCEPT when dealing with any location in San Francisco.  Second is if I'm headed to a totally new destination when I'm unfamiliar with the area.

I will use my GPS on any long distance trips, not so much for navigation purposes (although if it's someplace I've never been, my use is definitely for navigational purposes) but to provide me with intermediate distances so I can judge my fuel stops.  For example, after I get onto I-5 when heading to Las Vegas, my TomTom puts up how many miles before I exit the freeway and I use that as a "countdown" to my breakfast stop.

Quote from: roadman on January 29, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
And when she refers to the I-95/MA 128 overlap as "Interstate Ninety-Five South - Highway South - Highway One Hundred Twenty Eight South to XX" , just priceless.

You should hear what my TomTom says as I approach the I-515/I-15 interchange in Las Vegas... "Take the exit right, Interstate Five-Fifteen southbound, US Ninety-Five southbound, US Ninety-Three southbound..." or when I approach the BL-80/US 50/CA-99 interchange in Sacramento... "Interstate Eighty westbound, US Fifty westbound, Highway Ninety-nine northbound, Highway Sixteen westbound, Capitol City Freeway west"  The text on the display is so small it's unreadable.  :-D

Quote from: roadman on January 29, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
And I do really like the speedometer feature.  I'm generally not a lead-footed driver, so it's handy to have the bell go off if I become distracted and get going a bit too fast above the posted limit.

That would drive me nuts.  I'm more worried about traffic's speed around me than following a limit imposed by a bunch of nutjobs in a legislature.  Usually around Chicago that means 15 over on the freeways and tollways.

It's even worse in French. It seems like they get the text back from the translators, throw in a French TTS generator, and don't bother to test or tweak the speed, phonetics, phrase breaks and other parametres (not like they can unless they give one to a translator or native French speaker to drive around with).

On some highways with multiple names, it just barfs them at a fast pace with no obvious separation, sometimes sounding like it was one huge word. "AutoroutequatrecentunAutorouteMacdonaldCartierAutoroutedesHérosouest vers Toronto."

Another simple example: "East" and "is" are heteronyms in French ("est"). Mine always pronounces it as the latter ("eh" or "eht" instead of "ehsst", roughly).

Older GPSes also used to simply mangle foreign-language names – that's more obvious with all these English names in and around French Canada – but now, some of them seem to have some heuristics for detecting the probable language of a name and attempt to pronounce it correctly.

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on January 29, 2013, 01:20:18 PM
Since I'm someone who isn't too good at estimating mileage in my head, I do thoroughly enjoy the feature of my GPS that will tell you exactly how many miles it is to the destination.

I use it on all roadtrips because I find the time and mileage estimate feature very useful. It is also good for knowing how far to the next exit on some instances, especially when stretching a tank of gas.

On mountainous roads, knowing the curvature that is forthcoming is handy as well (The Hana Highway in HI comes to mind as does GA 246/NC 106).

Did a lot of walking in Honolulu and brought it with me to gauge if certain places were within range by foot.

Quote from: Brandon on January 29, 2013, 02:55:28 PM

Quote from: roadman on January 29, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
And I do really like the speedometer feature.  I'm generally not a lead-footed driver, so it's handy to have the bell go off if I become distracted and get going a bit too fast above the posted limit.

That would drive me nuts.  I'm more worried about traffic's speed around me than following a limit imposed by a bunch of nutjobs in a legislature.  Usually around Chicago that means 15 over on the freeways and tollways.

Let me clarify.  On 65 mph freeways, I generally travel between 70 and 75, based on road conditions and other traffic.  Note that the "speeding alarm" feature is adjustable.  I have mine set to go off if I exceed 76.

And I agree with you, it's best to go with the speed and flow of traffic.

My car has one built-in, so I can't help but glance down at it for alternate routes through neighborhoods when a main arterial is jammed up. Otherwise, when traveling across country or something -- it's definitely cheating to use it. I didn't waste ten years of my life studying my giant size Rand McNally for nothing.

The popularity of the modern day GPS system is ruining most people's ability to get around even their own neighborhood without electronic assistance. I've talked to people who have lived in the same area for ten years but are clueless when it comes to giving turn-by-turn directions without the aid of their GPS or mapquest. It's getting kind of sad. I refuse to let it happen to me, or much to their annoyance, my close friends and family.  :spin:

Quote from: PHX06 on January 29, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
The popularity of the modern day GPS system is ruining most people's ability to get around even their own neighborhood without electronic assistance. I've talked to people who have lived in the same area for ten years but are clueless when it comes to giving turn-by-turn directions without the aid of their GPS or mapquest. It's getting kind of sad. I refuse to let it happen to me, or much to their annoyance, my close friends and family.  :spin:

I think that's more a fault of some neighborhood designs.  A friend of mine (who posts here on occasion) lives somewhere in this labyrinth:

http://goo.gl/maps/KfDKC

I won't give much more detail so people don't show up at his door - that is, if they can find it!  Before I got a GPS, I used to print out a page from Google Maps because the turn-by-turn was just that confusing.  these days I know it well because I've done it so many times, but a similar neighborhood would cause me difficulty.

then again, I am not good at remembering deep stacks of turn-by-turn directions.  I can remember maybe 3-4 turns at most.  I don't think most people can remember many more.  There have been times when someone's asked me for directions on the street and I've told them "take the next left - then, after two traffic lights, take the first right which is gonna be unsignalized.  do you want more directions?  no?  okay, when you get to that point, ask the first person you see how to proceed!"

Yes, I own one. It's a roadgeek toy!  :bigass:

Very handy for finding a specific address, and also for estimating travel time to a destination.

I always calculate routes beforehand and only rarely have I used the GPS to guide me to a destination without having already figured out which exit to take, etc.

I've owned a number of GPS devices over the years. First was a a DeLorme that plugged into a laptop, which made for a cumbersome setup in the car. Later it was a DeLorme Blue Logger connected to a Palm device, onto which I loaded DeLorme maps before each trip. Then I got a Garmin, after which I found some apps to load onto my iPhone and iPad.

One of the handiest features I've found is when county lines are marked on a particular mapping app and you're out clinching counties and sometimes have to venture down local roads on which the county line is not marked. Once the arrow indicator is well past the county line, you know you've clinched that county and it's safe to turn around and head back to the main road.

Quote from: colinstu on January 29, 2013, 10:48:39 AM
I never travel with GPS on all the time. If I'm at home & I'm driving somewhere new, I will sit down and memorize the instructions using Google Maps depending how complex it is (or scribble down notes that make sense to me). If I'm in the car already and need to go somewhere new, I'll do much the same on my phone but might let it navigate me too.

Other then that, I like traveling without tech. Just me & knowing the streets. Feels great knowing where you're truly going... and always able to figure out (or know) an alternate route if things are closed or there's bad traffic.

edit: I never have or use paper road maps or atlases too.

That's how I do it as well

Quote from: roadman on January 29, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
And I do really like the speedometer feature.

It's especialily handy if your vehicle doesn't have a working speedometer.  My good friend has even noticed that the tires he uses on his pickup make the speedometer give an inaccurate reading, so he goes by his GPS unit instead.

Quote from: PHX06 on January 29, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
The popularity of the modern day GPS system is ruining most people's ability to get around even their own neighborhood without electronic assistance. I've talked to people who have lived in the same area for ten years but are clueless when it comes to giving turn-by-turn directions without the aid of their GPS or mapquest. It's getting kind of sad. I refuse to let it happen to me, or much to their annoyance, my close friends and family.

Our cable techs use GPS navigation a lot.  Sometimes, when they're signing off for the day with me, I overhear their device giving them directions to their own house.  Are you serious!

I have a GPS and use it occasionally for finding a specific location I'm not familiar with.  Otherwise, I plan my own routes and remember every turn before I leave.  I still use the GPS on some long trips because I like to see how far I have left until the next town, which may be 40 or 60 miles from the last town.  If I have a target for arrival time, I use it to regulate my speed.  I always leave early, so I sometimes need to go a little slow.  I seem to be one of few people who actually enjoys the travel and sees no need to be in a hurry to get it finished.  I give due consideration to faster traffic, of course, but most of my long-distance travel is in very rural areas, so that mostly isn't a problem.

I'd be too uncomfortable going out far away without knowing my route.  It isn't that I don't trust the technology, or paper maps; I just don't like not having a sense of where I am and what's around.

Quote from: PHX06 on January 29, 2013, 03:13:39 PMI didn't waste ten years of my life studying my giant size Rand McNally for nothing.

The popularity of the modern day GPS system is ruining most people's ability to get around even their own neighborhood without electronic assistance. I've talked to people who have lived in the same area for ten years but are clueless when it comes to giving turn-by-turn directions without the aid of their GPS or mapquest. It's getting kind of sad. I refuse to let it happen to me, or much to their annoyance, my close friends and family.  :spin:

AMEN!  PREACH IT BROTHA! :clap:

Quote from: PHX06 on January 29, 2013, 03:13:39 PM....

The popularity of the modern day GPS system is ruining most people's ability to get around even their own neighborhood without electronic assistance. I've talked to people who have lived in the same area for ten years but are clueless when it comes to giving turn-by-turn directions without the aid of their GPS or mapquest. It's getting kind of sad. I refuse to let it happen to me, or much to their annoyance, my close friends and family.  :spin:

Indeed last November when Virginia's HO/T lanes opened on I-495 some idiots were complaining that the lanes are "dangerous" because people "won't know where to go" because GPS devices don't show the lanes. Evidently the idea of just reading the damn signs never occurred to some people. I have to wonder how some of these people found their way around prior to electronic aids because they seem SO dependent on the things.

Quote from: cu2010 on January 29, 2013, 11:14:27 AM
I have one. It gets used more often as a speedometer than as a map. :)

Same here. I got a simple receiver 10-15 years ago and had it mounted on my bike until I fell and broke the antenna. Add going 26 in a 25 to the serious offenses committed by cyclists :)

A GPS is a great tool, and I'd recommend one to anyone. As has been pointed out, the speedometer feature is handy, and it can be so useful to have an ETA to share with folks at your destination. I would never become slave to one, but they're great when in unfamiliar territory, especially if plans change. They're handy for finding a place to stop for a bite too. Not everything is advertised on the road.

For those units which have the feature, tracking altitude can be pretty interesting as well.

I rarely use a GPS for long distance navigation but I find it an absolute necessity for last-mile navigation in an unfamiliar area. Its partly a safety issue. If I land in an unfamiliar city late at night, jet lagged, it lets me focus on driving safely with an unfamiliar rental car without the added burden of memorizing a stack or directions and trying to read what are often nonexistent or undersized street signs on my way to the hotel. The same goes for finding which anonymous building in the anonymous office park I need to be at for work in the morning. Once I've driven it a couple of times, I don't need the GPS anymore.

I can't stand GPS nav systems, and indeed went to some trouble to opt out of one for my pickup truck.  I couldn't opt out of the one for my car, but rarely use it for anything except as the equivalent of consulting a paper map (such as to display the local street network of an unfamiliar place, or let me gauge visually how far I am from my next turn or destination).  I don't trust the system to give me directions, having caught the one in my sister's car giving her bad directions (so she knows better than to give me one for a Christmas present).

I have a separate handheld hiker's GPS receiver, which I use sometimes on the road to grab coordinates, or off-road to help me find hot springs.

One other thing I forgot to mention that I like about the unit I have is that it will tell you the nearest town/city to your location.  While this is usually pretty obvious by just reading signs, I like to watch as your location changes and you become closer to a different town/city, or enter the corporate limits so you can see how far they stretch out if signs aren't posted.  Weird, I know, but I like it.

Like many of you, I use GPS primarily as a portable map of everywhere. I've always enjoyed following along on a paper map, but as the driver that's not really practical. GPS units allow me to not only follow along in any area, but also to do so while driving. And like my reading of paper maps, it's as much about the pastime as it is about actual information.

Similarly, I'll use the routing feature as a diversion rather than instruction. I'll switch on a route that I know perfectly well and see how well the machine keeps up. Sometimes I'll ignore its directions, other times I'll follow them blindly as though I had never been to the area, and see whether I get there successfully. And sometimes, I even discover a new trick I hadn't thought of!

But no, in general I never use the thing for actually guiding me, but that was also true of paper directions when they were the technological pinnacle. I tend to have my route known and visualized before setting off. In fact, just imagining the map in my head is much easier than following each step one by one, just as in when reading English, I see whole words and phrases rather than individual letters, or in music, where I recognize whole chords and passages on sight instead of picking out each note individually. And most of us do it with math too...we just see 10x5 as 50, we don't count to five ten times and then see how many we end up with!

i like to see how long it takes for the GPS to recalculate after going off the route it picks... the desperate attempts to make you u-turn for  the first couple moments. 

I praised the GPS earlier, but I have one criticism.

It's hard to put up with one more female voice yelling at me if I make a wrong turn. I've got a wife and two grown daughters who have so much experience at doing just that.  :banghead:

Quote from: theline on January 30, 2013, 01:45:56 PM
I praised the GPS earlier, but I have one criticism.

It's hard to put up with one more female voice yelling at me if I make a wrong turn. I've got a wife and two grown daughters who have so much experience at doing just that.  :banghead:

Set the voice to British Male. It sounds like you have a butler kindly nudging you toward your destination.

^^ Thanks, but we tried that. On our Garmin the British guy garbled the street names too much. We went with the British female, who at least sounds classy while pointing out what an idiot I am.

Occasionally, it will reboot itself and set the language to Afrikaans. That's a hoot. At least it's easily fixed.

..or ignored.

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 29, 2013, 11:14:03 AM
No, I do not have a GPS. 

For trips to unknown areas, I'll get directions from MapQuest and stock up on road maps serving the area.  Since I'm a member of AAA, I could conceivably get an infinite amount of maps at no charge.

After seeing people my age and older, who have driven for years without a GPS, turn absolutely stupid and have delusions of god-hood over those devices (see my signature below); I have absolutely no interest nor desire in getting one.

I wish more people shared your sentiment. I'm only 33 years old and tend to be kind of a luddite when it comes to technology that I feel isn't necessary. I do not own a GPS nor ever want to own one. When I travel to a new place, I usually print some maps off Google Maps beforehand and bring them with me. Plus I usually have some atlases and paper maps that I rely on. I do consider using a GPS to be cheating. I have no desire to own one.

Here's one thing I will say... the one thing, in my opinion, that a GPS would be nice for is to search for locations of restaurants or retail establishments in an area with which I'm unfamiliar. (For instance, if I'm craving a Five Guys Burgers & Fries, it would be nice to know if there is one closeby.) However, years ago, we didn't have all this technology, and people managed just fine.

A big problem I have with GPS is that it often doesn't give you the "big picture" of where you're at in relation to your destination. Too many people rely on it blindly.

It's one less piece of equipment I need lying around. I'm all about simplicity and not relying on stuff when I don't need it.

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 30, 2013, 05:10:32 PM

I wish more people shared your sentiment. I'm only 33 years old and tend to be kind of a luddite when it comes to technology that I feel isn't necessary. I do not own a GPS nor ever want to own one. When I travel to a new place, I usually print some maps off Google Maps beforehand and bring them with me. Plus I usually have some atlases and paper maps that I rely on. I do consider using a GPS to be cheating. I have no desire to own one.

Here's one thing I will say... the one thing, in my opinion, that a GPS would be nice for is to search for locations of restaurants or retail establishments in an area with which I'm unfamiliar. (For instance, if I'm craving a Five Guys Burgers & Fries, it would be nice to know if there is one closeby.) However, years ago, we didn't have all this technology, and people managed just fine.

A big problem I have with GPS is that it often doesn't give you the "big picture" of where you're at in relation to your destination. Too many people rely on it blindly.

It's one less piece of equipment I need lying around. I'm all about simplicity and not relying on stuff when I don't need it.

Most GPS units allow you to customize the view so that you can see the "big picture" of where you are in relation to your destination.  On the other hand, the view that just shows an arrow in the middle of the screen pointing forward....I agree with you there, that is kinda stupid, since of course you know to move forward.

While some people rely blindly on them, I think I can speak for most of the people on here who replied saying they use one when I say that we don't rely solely on the device.  In fact, most of us just like the perks and convenience offered on the GPS units.  I like how it gives me an accurate ETA and the exact mileage to the destination/stop that I have customized the route to.  I like how it tells you the nearest town/city so you can see when you actually enter town/city limits if there aren't signs posted.  I like having a complete "road atlas" at the tip of my fingers that I can just touch to scroll around and zoom in and out of, seeing the city streets of smaller cities not detailed in the road atlas.

But you're right; you need to use common sense when you use one and can't blindly rely on it.  If you use the proper dose of common sense, I've found the GPS units to not only be neat, but helpful on more than a few occasions.

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 01, 2013, 05:49:42 PMyou need to use common sense when you use one and can't blindly rely on it.

Here's where I first heard of GPS' for cars...


The first of Nationwide insurance's Life Comes At You Fast commercials.

Sadly, I've known too many people like the guy in the above-commercial when it comes to GPS usage.

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on February 01, 2013, 05:49:42 PMMost GPS units allow you to customize the view so that you can see the "big picture" of where you are in relation to your destination.  On the other hand, the view that just shows an arrow in the middle of the screen pointing forward....I agree with you there, that is kinda stupid, since of course you know to move forward.

While some people rely blindly on them, I think I can speak for most of the people on here who replied saying they use one when I say that we don't rely solely on the device.  In fact, most of us just like the perks and convenience offered on the GPS units.  I like how it gives me an accurate ETA and the exact mileage to the destination/stop that I have customized the route to.  I like how it tells you the nearest town/city so you can see when you actually enter town/city limits if there aren't signs posted.  I like having a complete "road atlas" at the tip of my fingers that I can just touch to scroll around and zoom in and out of, seeing the city streets of smaller cities not detailed in the road atlas.

But you're right; you need to use common sense when you use one and can't blindly rely on it.  If you use the proper dose of common sense, I've found the GPS units to not only be neat, but helpful on more than a few occasions.

Your jib...I like the cut of it. A perfect summation of proper GPS usage.

I own one and use it daily - but not for actually routing me between home and work, because I've kinda got that figured out.

I like the "estimated time of arrival" feature. Like others, I do like to see where it thinks I should go compared to where I know I should go. It has gotten me out of places I wish I hadn't gone. I've loaded it with POI's of very important things - and many not-so-important-but-interesting things - so they show up on the map while I'm driving.

But biggest feature is that it has Bluetooth that pairs with my phone, so I can use it hands-free when needed. And it's portable, so if I change vehicles it comes along with me.

Something interesting...Garmin recently issued a map update. They've added a lot of walking/biking paths to the database - for example, a lot of the Great Western Trail and it's spurs in the west Chicago burbs and now shown. There are some spurs that lead to the middle school my son attends. The GPS doesn't have the driveway, bus lanes, and parking lot for the school - but it does show those paths. And it tells me to use them to drop my son off at the school, despite the fact that I really shouldn't be driving a car on them. So yes, blind following of one's GPS is NOT recommended.

 I own a TomTom and my Droid phone has Verizon Navigator.    I don't generally like to use it, but there are times when it's really helpful.  For instance, my favorite train shop in NC (Little Choo Choo Shop in Spencer) required me to go through downtown Salisbury on US 29/70.  I was always curious if that was the shortest route there.  Turns out it's not.  You can go the back streets and avoid downtown completely.

Also, I can find restaurants in town more easily if I'm in an unfamiliar area.  Yes, you have blue signs, but driving around looking for something specific on them is a waste of time (did that in New Jersey back in 2009).

I don't have a dedicated device, but I do have the maps app on my phone. It is capable of narrating directions (at least I think it is), but that's not a feature I use. I like having a portable street atlas, but I insist on doing the navigating myself. The most I will do is ask it where something is. Once I've got a pin in the map, I handle the routing myself. Only downside is, I get charged through the nose to data roam, so I don't. Which means my maps app is not usable in Canada or in any pocket of the US which Verizon has chosen to foresake (or, more commonly, anywhere where there simply isn't a signal).


My father's car has a GPS unit built in. Which has both good and bad to it. Good: it works in Canada, and regardless of cell coverage. Good: it's nice, as a passenger, to be able to follow along precisely on a map where you are. Bad: the map by default (at least you can change it) tracks the direction you're facing and orients itself accordingly. I understand that most people prefer this, but personally I get disoriented if north is not towards the top of the picture. Bad: it won't let you use anything but basic controls while the car is moving. Obviously designed to prevent distracted driving, but it also prevents the passenger from playing with it.

Obviously, I do not (see my signature).

BTW, I sort of changed my original signature (with the parenthesis) because I thought PHLBOS was referring to me in his signature.  Until now, when I read his comment about GPS's.

The mobile website our cable techs use to keep track of their work has a map feature built in that maps out all their jobs using Google Maps.  Also included is a "Get Directions" feature.  Most guys have sat-nav in their trucks anyway, but the Google Maps one makes it easy to map out all the jobs and pick which ones to go to in what order.

Quote from: Duke87 on February 02, 2013, 09:49:05 PM
I don't have a dedicated device, but I do have the maps app on my phone. It is capable of narrating directions (at least I think it is), but that's not a feature I use. I like having a portable street atlas, but I insist on doing the navigating myself. The most I will do is ask it where something is. Once I've got a pin in the map, I handle the routing myself. Only downside is, I get charged through the nose to data roam, so I don't. Which means my maps app is not usable in Canada or in any pocket of the US which Verizon has chosen to foresake (or, more commonly, anywhere where there simply isn't a signal).

There are, of course, many apps that don't need a data connection because the maps are pre-loaded (just like standalone units).

Quote from: amroad17 on February 03, 2013, 06:26:59 AMBTW, I sort of changed my original signature (with the parenthesis) because I thought PHLBOS was referring to me in his signature.  Until now, when I read his comment about GPS's.

BTW in no way did I intend nor insinuate you my earlier posts nor signature.  I wrote my signature in reference to many (not on this site) people I've seen that view GPS info. as infallable.

On a more serious note, unlike my earlier-post featuring the Nationwide GPS ad.; apparently an overheight charter bus in Boston collided with a low overpass (10 Ft. clearance) along Soldiers Field Road despite the presence of numerous signs stating the low bridge clearance. as well as entrance/exit ramps for overheight vehicles to use to avoid the low overpass (Western Ave. interchange BTW was the location of the accident).  This accident occurred last night.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/bus_crash_bridge_was_due_rehab_next_year (http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/bus_crash_bridge_was_due_rehab_next_year)

Excerpts:

At this point our understanding of the cause of this crash remains unchanged from what was released earlier: the driver failed to observe and heed signs warning of a 10-foot height limit on Soldiers Field Road,"  state police spokesman David Procopio said in s statement this morning. "The driver will likely be cited for an overheight violation. The ongoing investigation will determine whether he faces more serious charges as well."
...

The bus hit the Western Avenue Bridge at 7:55 p.m. Harrington said there are signs before the bridge saying it has a 10-foot-high limit. He said the bus was at least 12 feet high.

A preliminary investigation indicates the driver did not see the sign and the bus was not supposed to be on the road, said state police spokesman David Procopio, adding an investigation will determine if any charges are brought. Talmedge said the driver didn't know about the road restrictions.

Although the article doesn't state such; one has to wonder if the bus driver from Philadelphia may have been over-reliant on his GPS (do any of these devices have settings to not use/block out roads w/truck height/weight restrictions?) rather than heeding the warning signs... especially since there were exit/escape ramps available.  That's just my guess/opinion as towards why the driver ignored the warning signs.  If proven true (over-relying on his GPS), this accident did not have to happen IMHO.

Like many on this site, I used to be well-known as the person to whom to go for directions.  If the one asking was an acquaintance, rather than a friend, I was proud of my ability to - with just one or two questions - understand how that person navigated - by landmarks, signage, cardinal directions, whatever - and quickly identify the best route for that person and describe it in the clearest terms for that person.

I find myself mourning that skill is now unused and unappreciated (except by immediate family and close friends) in the GPS day and age.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 03, 2013, 03:06:16 PMAlthough the article doesn't state such; one has to wonder if the bus driver from Philadelphia may have been over-reliant on his GPS (do any of these devices have settings to not use/block out roads w/truck height/weight restrictions?) rather than heeding the warning signs... especially since there were exit/escape ramps available.  That's just my guess/opinion as towards why the driver ignored the warning signs.  If proven true (over-relying on his GPS), this accident did not have to happen IMHO.

All major GPS manufacturers (Magellan, TomTom, Garmin, Rand McNally - yes, THAT Rand McNally) have units specialized for oversized vehicles, be they semi-trucks, RVs, or buses. It's still up the user to accurately profile the vehicle that he or she is driving (height, weight, width, and other measurements), as well as keep the maps up to date.

As an aside, I love your "GPS does not equal GOD" signature, because you are spot on. In regards to what US81 said, people still ask me for directions all the time, especially since I know all the exit numbers and reference points in my head.

Quote from: US81 on February 03, 2013, 03:50:03 PM
Like many on this site, I used to be well-known as the person to whom to go for directions.  If the one asking was an acquaintance, rather than a friend, I was proud of my ability to - with just one or two questions - understand how that person navigated - by landmarks, signage, cardinal directions, whatever - and quickly identify the best route for that person and describe it in the clearest terms for that person.

I find myself mourning that skill is now unused and unappreciated (except by immediate family and close friends) in the GPS day and age.

I bought my wife a GPS just so I could be relieved of my duties of a human GPS when she was traveling, but she still finds me more reliable than the GPS. When she takes a long-distance trip, I will write out explicit directions for her and will often include in those directions an admonishment not to pay attention to what her GPS is telling her.

Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on February 03, 2013, 04:20:49 PMAll major GPS manufacturers (Magellan, TomTom, Garmin, Rand McNally - yes, THAT Rand McNally) have units specialized for oversized vehicles, be they semi-trucks, RVs, or buses. It's still up the user to accurately profile the vehicle that he or she is driving (height, weight, width, and other measurements), as well as keep the maps up to date.

Here's a couple updates regarding that bus crash; it turns out that the driver looked down at his GPS prior to approaching the low overpass.  I Knew It!  I Knew It!  I Knew It!

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/%E2%80%98historic%E2%80%99_overpass_won%E2%80%99t_be_raised_when_repaired (http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/%E2%80%98historic%E2%80%99_overpass_won%E2%80%99t_be_raised_when_repaired)

Excerpt:

Calvary Coach owner Ray Talmedge told WCAU-TV that Jackson looked down at his GPS and saw the bridge when he looked up, but it was too late to avoid hitting it.

An article from The Philadelphia Inquirer, the bus in question was transporting high-school age students from the Lower Bucks County area, gives another GPS-related take on the matter.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130204_After_bus_crash__at_least_four_of_42_Bucks_passengers_remain_hospitalized_in_Boston.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130204_After_bus_crash__at_least_four_of_42_Bucks_passengers_remain_hospitalized_in_Boston.html)

Excerpt (Bold emphasis added):

Several people familiar with the Boston area said they weren't surprised the crash happened on Soldiers Field Road. The low clearances apparently have been problematic for decades with out-of-town bus drivers and new college students in moving trucks.

Adding to the problem, GPS systems and online maps don't always include bridge heights or other logistical restrictions.

Based on the above-two articles, it's painfully obvious that this bus driver's GPS unit either didn't have the commerical vehicle setting nor was properly set up for such.  Had he not looked at his GPS at that moment, he would've seen the exit (overheight vehicle escape) ramp, exited off (& gotten back on beyond the at-grade intersection w/Western Ave.) and avoided the tragedy (& pending lawsuits).

Quote from: US81 on February 03, 2013, 03:50:03 PM
Like many on this site, I used to be well-known as the person to whom to go for directions.  If the one asking was an acquaintance, rather than a friend, I was proud of my ability to - with just one or two questions - understand how that person navigated - by landmarks, signage, cardinal directions, whatever - and quickly identify the best route for that person and describe it in the clearest terms for that person.

I find myself mourning that skill is now unused and unappreciated (except by immediate family and close friends) in the GPS day and age.

I feel your pain on that one; we're becoming like the lonely Maytag Repairman. 

However, I did get a call from one friend who lost her GPS (she accidentally threw it out w/her trash when she was cleaning out her car) and needed directions to a church that was having a coffehouse night.  After talking her through some turns (I had my ADC atlas within grabbing distance) she got there without too much trouble.

There was also another time I got a call from someone who either missed a turn from her GPS or it was completely screwing him up directionwise.  Again, I had a local atlas handy and directed to where he needed to go.

So I still get calls/direction requests but not as often.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 03, 2013, 05:36:51 PMWhen she takes a long-distance trip, I will write out explicit directions for her and will often include in those directions an admonishment not to pay attention to what her GPS is telling her.

Whenever I write out directions for somebody, if I know the message(s) on the guidance signs (BGS/LGS), I will include those listings in the directions.  Heck, on hand-written directions, I've even drawn replicas of the key signs to highlight the exits/turns.

I take a GPS with me when I'm hiking, though I depend primarily on topo map and compass.  (Oh, did you mean in my car?)

I use my GPS whenever I go to a major city, somewhere I've never been to, or somewhere far, even if I know how to get there.  I like to have it with me so I can find places in case I need to make a rest stop.  I also like knowing the traffic conditions so if I have to take a detour, I will know where I am going.

I have my GPS mounted in the center of my dashboard.

I have a Garmin nuvi which has traffic info, lane assist (shows which lane to be in), and junction view (shows you an image of the highway with overhead green signs with an arrow showing where you should be.  My GPS also has Bluetooth that I use with my cell phone, but I only use the Bluetooth feature for important calls and I keep the calls brief.  Bluetooth also allows you to call a point of interest through the GPS (works as a speakerphone).

I also purchased Garmin Lifetime Updates, which is a one-time payment that allows you to install new maps free of charge.  You install a program on your computer called Garmin Lifetime Updater and it will notify you when new maps are available.

I like to use Google Maps on my phone. I treat it as a mini, zoom-able atlas. I like to type in directions so that I can see the three options that Google recommends, but I sometimes follow a different path that either I know is better (or takes roads that I'd like to take, regardless of distance). I use it the most at the beginning of a trip (for a general trip outline) and at the end of a trip (where there are lots of quick, 0.1 mile turns).

I've used a Garmin GPS for a short-term book delivery trip to NJ, and my favorite activity was "guess where the destination actually is!" If Garmin told me to look left, I'd look right, etc. The knowledge of the GPS was invaluable for that trip, especially since I was in a different state and needed a lot of local knowledge for delivery stops.

I still prefer to look at the directions in advance and memorize them, and to look at the paper maps and atlas as I go along.

I have used GPSs from time to time when I storm chase out west. However, I do not trust them when it comes to giving directions. I have 2 examples.

A couple years ago when I was chasing in western Kansas, the GPS I was using had said "Turn left here" and it was an entrance in to a farmer's wheat field.  I looked up the road to see if there was another "left" at a road. There wasn't. We took that left at the entrance and somehow made it across the field to the highway we were looking for.

The other one just happened last week when I was training someone for becoming a limo driver in Chicago. He brought his GPS. The directions it gave from Aurora to Midway was fine using 88 to 294 south to 55 north. But I wanted to see how good a GPS he had. I exited on to 355 south to get the GPS to recalculate. Until I got to 63rd St/Hobson Rd, it wanted me to exit and head back north to 88.  After 63rd, it recalculated and said "Take I-55 South toward St Louis". That as I am sure we all know is completely the wrong direction to get to Midway. I proved my point to this guy and said, "That is exactly why I do not trust GPSs. Learn to read a map book."

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 17, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
I have used GPSs from time to time when I storm chase out west. However, I do not trust them when it comes to giving directions. I have 2 examples.

A couple years ago when I was chasing in western Kansas, the GPS I was using had said "Turn left here" and it was an entrance in to a farmer's wheat field.  I looked up the road to see if there was another "left" at a road. There wasn't. We took that left at the entrance and somehow made it across the field to the highway we were looking for.

The other one just happened last week when I was training someone for becoming a limo driver in Chicago. He brought his GPS. The directions it gave from Aurora to Midway was fine using 88 to 294 south to 55 north. But I wanted to see how good a GPS he had. I exited on to 355 south to get the GPS to recalculate. Until I got to 63rd St/Hobson Rd, it wanted me to exit and head back north to 88.  After 63rd, it recalculated and said "Take I-55 South toward St Louis". That as I am sure we all know is completely the wrong direction to get to Midway. I proved my point to this guy and said, "That is exactly why I do not trust GPSs. Learn to read a map book."

Where did it want you to go after you got onto I-55? I suspect back off at the next exit. In my experience, GPSs aren't always the quickest, most direct, or best route, but they never give you directions that just plain won't get you there (excepting of course bad map data, like the example with the bike paths above).

Quote from: realjd on February 17, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
Where did it want you to go after you got onto I-55? I suspect back off at the next exit. In my experience, GPSs aren't always the quickest, most direct, or best route, but they never give you directions that just plain won't get you there (excepting of course bad map data, like the example with the bike paths above).

My guess is that it had the wrong text for the correct exit ramp.

Quote from: NE2 on February 17, 2013, 05:57:29 PM

Quote from: realjd on February 17, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
Where did it want you to go after you got onto I-55? I suspect back off at the next exit. In my experience, GPSs aren't always the quickest, most direct, or best route, but they never give you directions that just plain won't get you there (excepting of course bad map data, like the example with the bike paths above).

My guess is that it had the wrong text for the correct exit ramp.

Good point. I've run into that before, notably in Austin where my Garmin uses "North I35" and "South I35" for the on ramps and service roads not based on direction but based on what side of town I'm on.

Quote from: realjd on February 17, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
In my experience, GPSs aren't always the quickest, most direct, or best route, but they never give you directions that just plain won't get you there (excepting of course bad map data, like the example with the bike paths above).

Not the best route, bad map data.  It's all the same from the middle of the wheat field.

Quote from: realjd on February 17, 2013, 09:06:50 PM

Quote from: NE2 on February 17, 2013, 05:57:29 PM

Quote from: realjd on February 17, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
Where did it want you to go after you got onto I-55? I suspect back off at the next exit. In my experience, GPSs aren't always the quickest, most direct, or best route, but they never give you directions that just plain won't get you there (excepting of course bad map data, like the example with the bike paths above).

My guess is that it had the wrong text for the correct exit ramp.

Good point. I've run into that before, notably in Austin where my Garmin uses "North I35" and "South I35" for the on ramps and service roads not based on direction but based on what side of town I'm on.

It was the oddest thing. I looked at the "map" on it after it said that and it did in fact want me to exit on to 55 south and go to Rt 53 to make a u turn. Like i said, I don't trust them.

That sounds like outdated maps/data more than anything else.

But I also agree - do not trust your GPS implicitly.

Quote from: Stratuscaster on February 18, 2013, 07:39:32 PM
That sounds like outdated maps/data more than anything else.

But I also agree - do not trust your GPS implicitly.

I use GPS sparingly. I have a GPS speedometer app on my phone that's fairly reliable.

Quote from: Stratuscaster on February 18, 2013, 07:39:32 PM
That sounds like outdated maps/data more than anything else.

I remember construction around that interchange back in the mid-Noughties, but nothing that closed down the connection between SB I-355 and NB I-55.  I wasn't living in the area when the 355 extension was opened, but I rather doubt they would have closed down that connection at any point during the process.  Besides which, that was several years ago.  So "outdated data" doesn't seem too likely in my opinion.

Good point. I've run into that before, notably in Austin where my Garmin uses "North I35" and "South I35" for the on ramps and service roads not based on direction but based on what side of town I'm on.
[/quote]

That sounds like common nomenclature, at least in much of Texas, to refer to interstates and freeways as directionals from downtown. This is common on city streets: East or West Main St or North or South Oak Street.  So, in Austin, "North I-35" refers to anything north of the Colorado River up to Round Rock        (where "South I-35, Round Rock" starts.)  Therefore one could either be driving north or south on "North I-35."   

Same usage in other Texas cities in which I have driven - is it different elsewhere?

^^^
Most other places don't have service roads so the terminology is inherently different, but no, that's not how it's done elsewhere. Everywhere else I've been, the direction refers to the direction if travel and is consistent with the signs. It was jarring having the GPS tell me to turn right onto "I35 North" when I had to follow the sign for "I35 South".

Quote from: realjd on February 19, 2013, 02:31:58 PM
^^^
Most other places don't have service roads so the terminology is inherently different, but no, that's not how it's done elsewhere. Everywhere else I've been, the direction refers to the direction if travel and is consistent with the signs. It was jarring having the GPS tell me to turn right onto "I35 North" when I had to follow the sign for "I35 South".

It had not occurred to me - service roads make the difference.  Thanks for the info.

Now I have a great "excuse" to buy a GPS and take an out-of-state Road Trip!   :)

Here's an update regarding that fore-mentioned bus accident in Boston earlier this month from an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer.  While the primary focus of the article is on one of the more severely injured student (16 year-old Matt Cruz) still being in the hospital; the latter part of the article mentions the GPS issue:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html)

Key Excerpts (bold emphasis added):

The Cruz family has sued the bus company, Calvary Coach of West Philadelphia, and driver Samuel J. Jackson, 66, alleging that Jackson should have seen height-restriction signs.

After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs. Reached by phone on Thursday, Talmadge declined to comment.

Personal take on this, and yes I'm sounding like a broken record, the driver should've been paying attention to the road & its signs, and not have been over-reliant on his GPS.  If he did indeed got on Soldier's Field Road by mistake (by making a premature right turn when he thought he was trying to get on the Mass Pike (I-90) at the Allston/Brighton/Cambridge interchange), he could have just exited off before the low overpass and proceeded back to the Pike on-ramp.

Given the fact that the accident occurred while returning from Harvard Univ., means he arrived there earlier without incident or using Soldier's Field Road.

Sadly, as we've seen w/cell phones & texting; it will only be a matter of when not if some government bureaucrat will propose legislation either restricting or outright banning the use of GPS navigation systems in motor vehicles.  All it takes is one more incident of this magnitude or higher (i.e. involving a death) to do it.

You heard it here first.

And with all the rules and regulations regarding CDL licenses, along with all the maps and information available to CDL drivers regarding suggested and prohibited routes, it's amazing how many of these drivers will pick up a regular GPS meant for passenger vehicles and rely on that.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 22, 2013, 10:29:51 AM
And with all the rules and regulations regarding CDL licenses, along with all the maps and information available to CDL drivers regarding suggested and prohibited routes, it's amazing how many of these drivers will pick up a regular GPS meant for passenger vehicles and rely on that.

Cost.  They're cheap and act like it too.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 22, 2013, 09:44:16 AM
Here's an update regarding that fore-mentioned bus accident in Boston earlier this month from an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer.  While the primary focus of the article is on one of the more severely injured student (16 year-old Matt Cruz) still being in the hospital; the latter part of the article mentions the GPS issue:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html)

Key Excerpts (bold emphasis added):

The Cruz family has sued the bus company, Calvary Coach of West Philadelphia, and driver Samuel J. Jackson, 66, alleging that Jackson should have seen height-restriction signs.

After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs. Reached by phone on Thursday, Talmadge declined to comment.

Personal take on this, and yes I'm sounding like a broken record, the driver should've been paying attention to the road & its signs, and not have been over-reliant on his GPS.  If he did indeed got on Soldier's Field Road by mistake (by making a premature right turn when he thought he was trying to get on the Mass Pike (I-90) at the Allston/Brighton/Cambridge interchange), he could have just exited off before the low overpass and proceeded back to the Pike on-ramp.

Given the fact that the accident occurred while returning from Harvard Univ., means he arrived there earlier without incident or using Soldier's Field Road.

Sadly, as we've seen w/cell phones & texting; it will only be a matter of when not if some government bureaucrat will propose legislation either restricting or outright banning the use of GPS navigation systems in motor vehicles.  All it takes is one more incident of this magnitude or higher (i.e. involving a death) to do it.

You heard it here first.

I understand your point (and share your concerns) about distractions.  I also firmly believe that a commercial driver that places "blind faith" on a consumer-grade GPS receiver probably shouldn't even have a CDL.  However, while I'm not defending the bus driver's actions here, I believe his reliance on GPS wasn't the sole cause of this crash.

For one thing, the height restriction signs on Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive state only "Low Clearance" and do not give the actual clearance (10.0 feet at Western Avenue, but 9'-6" at other locations). Consider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

There is also evidence that the rubber "CARS ONLY" sign on the entrance ramp (which being non-reflective yellow letters on black background is horribly non-standard, but that's a discussion for another time) was actually missing the night of the crash.  Even if it was in place and was black on white, "CARS ONLY" doesn't mean "You'll hit a bridge if you continue", especially to a driver who was apparently unfamilar with the Boston area.  OK, the bus would have hit the rubber sign if it was there, but could have continued on its way.

And the driver hit the Western Avenue overpass, which means his basic error was not by getting on Solider's Field Road in the first place (which you have to do to directly access I-90 from Harvard Square, and can do safely, because the first clearance restriction is at Western Avenue after the I-90 exit), but was failing to exit from Soldier's Field Road to access the MassPike.

About the only thing standard about the advance signs on Soldier's Field Road for I-90/MassPike are that they are white on green.  Other than that, they are horribly undersized, poorly placed, and actually use Helevetica font (a consequence of an agency - Department of Conservation and Recreation - that places higher value on asethetics than on giving drivers adequate information).

Lastly, as for the driver's route into Harvard from the MassPike earlier that day, note there are no clearance restrictions on Soldier's Field Road west of Western Avenue and access from the MassPike.  Therefore, it is reasonable to conjecture that the driver wouldn't expect to encounter any clearance restrictions on the reverse route back to the Pike.

Just some things to consider.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PM

For one thing, the height restriction signs on Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive state only "Low Clearance" and do not give the actual clearance (10.0 feet at Western Avenue, but 9'-6" at other locations). Consider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

Maybe, but the 14' 6" signs aren't "low clearance", at least in this part of the country anyway.  Vehicles have a 13' 6" maximum height throughout most of the northeast; and bridges below 14' 5" are required to have the height posted on the overpass.  Of course, some bridges are signed at greater heights as well.

The different between a 14' overpass and 10' overpass is that the 14' overpasses generally don't need a special high restriction signs posted in advance of the overpass warning large vehicles of the height.  Again - some do - but for every case someone can point out, I'll just as easily point out an overpass that doesn't have the advanced signing.  The 10' overpasses definitely would need that advanced signing, and would be noted in maps and other information easily available to the driver of a truck/bus.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PMI also firmly believe that a commercial driver that places "blind faith" on a consumer-grade GPS receiver probably shouldn't even have a CDL.

According to the various articles, the bus driver in question is 66 years old and has been a bus driver for over 20 years; well before the widespread use of GPS navigation systems. 

Which begs the question, if this were 15, 10, or even 5 years ago; would this accident have even happened?  If the answer is "Yes", then it is not GPS-related nor induced; OTOH, if the answer to the question is indeed "No", my earlier point stands.  As I mentioned previously, I have seen many who have been driving for decades (in some instances longer than I've been alive) turn absolutely stupid once they started using GPS systems in their vehicles.

While there have been past incidents w/vehicles hitting these overpasses (usually college kids driving moving vans); this is the first time I can remember such an incident in this area involving several injuries, some even severe.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PMConsider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

As one who has driven between Metro Philly and Metro Boston for over 23 years, I can honestly say with reasonable certainty, that most of the roads (even ones w/vehicle restrictions due to low clearances) between here and there do NOT have such low clearances.  Plus this bus would not have been on roads like the Garden State Parkway (north of I-95/NJTP has vehicle height restrictions), the Saw Mill Parkway, Merritt Parkway, etc.  Similar logic would've/should've applied for Soldier's Field Road in Boston.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PMThere is also evidence that the rubber "CARS ONLY" sign on the entrance ramp (which being non-reflective yellow letters on black background is horribly non-standard, but that's a discussion for another time) was actually missing the night of the crash.  Even if it was in place and was black on white, "CARS ONLY" doesn't mean "You'll hit a bridge if you continue", especially to a driver who was apparently unfamilar with the Boston area.  OK, the bus would have hit the rubber sign if it was there, but could have continued on its way.

Those rubber CARS ONLY are usually attached to an overhead gantry with a smallish red & yellow sign containing the words WARNING along with the clearance height (usually the most stringent).  Was just the rubber signs missing or the entire gantry?  The gantry where the bus likley got on eastbound Soldier's Field Road, according to various map images, show those signs attached to a cantilevered gantry w/such a warning sign (JFK/N. Harvard St. interchange).

It's interesting to note that there is a newer pedestrian overpass (John W. Weeks Bridge) located between the Harvard St. & Western Ave. interchanges.  I'm guessing that its clearance is at least 12 feet or higher, otherwise the bus would've hit that overpass first.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PMAnd the driver hit the Western Avenue overpass, which means his basic error was not by getting on Solider's Field Road in the first place (which you have to do to directly access I-90 from Harvard Square, and can do safely, because the first clearance restriction is at Western Avenue after the I-90 exit), but was failing to exit from Soldier's Field Road to access the MassPike.

A couple things:

1.  While it may not be necessarily marked as a truck route per say, one can get the Mass Pike from there without using Soldier's Field Road by staying on N. Harvard St. and following it to Cambrdige St. ant then turning left onto Cambridge St. and turn left again for the Mass Pike (I-90) on-ramps.  Again, pre-GPS, would the bus driver asked those at Harvard (especially other bus drivers on campus) what is the best way for an overheight vehicle to get to the Pike?

2.  As previously stated, if one used eastbound Soldier's Field Road, the ramp for Western Ave. and the Mass Pike/I-90 is in a straight line of sight with respect to the Western Ave. overpass w/its long yellow 10-foot clearance sign.  While the 80s-vintage MDC-era exit signage is small, had the bus driver not looked down at his GPS, he would've seen it and exited accordingly IMHO.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PMAbout the only thing standard about the advance signs on Soldier's Field Road for I-90/MassPike are that they are white on green.  Other than that, they are horribly undersized, poorly placed, and actually use Helevetica font (a consequence of an agency - Department of Conservation and Recreation - that places higher value on asethetics than on giving drivers adequate information).

I remember when those those b (lower case intentional) GS' were first erected; while not the best, they certainly were better than the 50s-era signs they replaced in terms of info.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PM
Lastly, as for the driver's route into Harvard from the MassPike earlier that day, note there are no clearance restrictions on Soldier's Field Road west of Western Avenue and access from the MassPike.  Therefore, it is reasonable to conjecture that the driver wouldn't expect to encounter any clearance restrictions on the reverse route back to the Pike.

Given that many of the cross streets on the Cambridge side of the Charles are one-ways, the bus driver likely (guess on my part) never touched Soldier's Field Road.  He likely crossed over along Cambridge/River St. and either used Memorial Drive or River St. to get to his destination.

Quote from: roadman on February 22, 2013, 06:21:53 PM
Just some things to consider.

Consider, yes.  But if the issues involving the crash was just due to poor/undersized/inadequate signage alone; such an accident would've happened decades earlier.  We're not talking about a new road condition scenario here.  As you yourself know, these particular roads have been there in their current form for decades.

PHLBOS,

Good points here.  However, the warning signs at the entrances to Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive simply state "LOW CLEARANCE (in black on yellow)" with a "DANGER" banner (in white on red) above it.  The only locations the actual clearances are indicated are on the signs attached to the overpasses themselves.

Also, while this is by far the most serious crash to occur on these roads involving an overheight vehicle (at least during my lifetime),  it is not uncommon for this sort of thing to happen at least several times a year (one of the local blogs refers to this as "the Storrow pool").  Such incidents usually involve box trucks (even a U-Haul truck is too high to fit under most of the DCR bridges) or tractor-trailers.  Although less common, buses have often ventured into the forbidden zone as well.  Unfortuantely for everyone involved, this latest incident was just one of those times where the bus driver didn't realize it in time.

Roadman,

If memory serves, when those rubber CARS ONLY signs are hit (I wasn't aware that the ones for the eastbound Soldier's Field Road eastbound entrance were missing until you mentioned it); isn't there a sign that lights up just before the next exit alerting the overheight vehicle in question to take the next exit?

Granted, if the driver looked down at his GPS (or to adjust the heater/AC controls/radio) he wouldn't have seen the sign light up (had one of those rubber signs been present).

As I mentioned earlier, yes the signage could be better (I'm sure any missing rubber CARS ONLY signs will no be quickly replaced at the entrance ramp in question) and yes there have been past incidents w/the low overpasses (usually involving college students driving moving vans, who normally aren't used to driving such tall vehicles nor are familiar w/the area); however, out-of-town busses have made the trek to/from events at Harvard University for decades without incident (either they didn't use the road or the busses in question weren't as tall or some of the overpasses were a tad higher).  So the 20-25 year-old signs alone aren't the issue and the roadway layout in the immediate vicinity hasn't really changed (sans the Mass Pike Extension) all that much since before my father was born (1930). 

Additionally, the driver in question wasn't some young newbie from a hick town; it was a 66 year-old who had driven such busses (12-ft height) for 20+ years and is based out of Philadelphia, which has its own share of roadway quirks (many of which are discussed in other threads as most of us know).  IMHO, the driver should have known better than to look down or away in an area where his needed turn can come up rather quick.

Given all the above-information, I will still stand by my claim that if there was no GPS present; the bus would've either not gotten on Soldier's Field Road or exited off before approaching the Western Ave. overpass (that ramp is the one needed to get from there to the Mass Pike). 

When one's transporting a bunch of people in a tall bus and sees a Low Clearance sign w/no height listed in an unfamiliar area; GPS or no GPS, it is always better to err on the side of caution.

IMHO, this whole incident's should be a teachable moment for all drivers out there regarding use of GPS systems while driving.

PHLBOS,

Again, excellent points.

While some of the entrance ramps do have warning signs (red neon text on black signs) that are supposed to be activated by overheight vehicles, they are set off by infrared sensors, and not by a vehicle hitting the rubber "CARS ONLY" signs.  Unfortunately, the sensors are often unreliable due to improper adjustment and/or lack of maintenance (for example, the K40 antenna on the trunk of my 1999 Ford Contour usually activates the signs), and in some cases, the signs are always illuminated - even when there aren't any vehicles on the ramps - and thus, often disregarded by drivers.

And, as I stated in my original post, I'm certianly not excusing the bus driver's behavior here, and I do acknowledge that he is principally responsible for the safe operation of his bus.  However, the fact that overheight vehicles - most of which are trucks driven by professional drivers - end up on these roads on a regular basis (and this has been going on since at least the 1970s) tells me that there may be more to this issue here than just driver inattention.

It is my opinion that the inadequate and non-standard signing could be one of the reasons for this.  And, frankly, there is no legitimate reason not to use standard highway signs that are properly sized and placed to warn of the clearance and vehicle restrictions.  But, given the DCR's penchant for ignoring standards in their attempts towards making these "parkways" asthetically pleasing, it's unlikely this will change until one of these crashes results in multiple fatalities (I for one hope that doesn't happen), or if ownership of these roadways is turned over to MassDOT (which would be the most logical course of action).

Roadman,

Having driven along westbound Storrow Drive and Soldiers Field Road (up to the Cambridge Street interchange) just yesterday afternoon, I noticed that the low clearance structures range from 11 feet-3 inches to 10 feet.  One overhead sign had the likely 80s-vintage red/white/yellow DANGER LOW CLEARANCE another one, likely newer, had a slightly larger sign with the height of the next upcoming structure listed.

If I wasn't under a time contraint, I would've driven to the crash site (located beyond where I exited) and investigated the various signs.

BTW, some of the signage along westbound Storrow Drive approaching the Kenmore Square interchange has been replaced with similar-sized (or slightly larger) BGS' but featuring larger and the more MUTCD-standard FHWA font (series E or E(M)).  So there does seem to be somewhat of a transition to a closer to MUTCD standard w/future signage.

In the wake of this crash, maybe supplemental and/or larger signage will be erected during the upcoming adjacent bridge overhaul/replacement project scheduled to take place next year.  Especially since this is the first crash involving multiple injuries (as opposed to just vehicular damage).

Nonetheless, while the issue(s) with the signage problem existed for decades in this area; the over-reliance of GPS' only increases/exacerbates the problem and confirms (on a more severe level in this case) what I've stated before regarding how stupid people (many of which should know better IMHO) have become w/using these devices while driving.

IMHO, GPS should stand for Guaranteed Production Stupidity.

I can't help but feel that maybe a tiny amount of the blame should be on MassDOT/city of Boston/Department of Whatever for, y'know, still having a 10' overpass in place in the year 2013.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2013, 02:49:01 PM
I can't help but feel that maybe a tiny amount of the blame should be on MassDOT/city of Boston/Department of Whatever for, y'know, still having a 10' overpass in place in the year 2013.

Unfortuantely, when there's adjacent riverfront land/property involved (the overpass in question is a stone's throw from the Charles River); any and all roadway improvement projects (including the raising of overpasses) undergo a higher level of scrutiny from planners, NIMBYs and the like; and either die in committee or get drastically scaled back.  The roadway network in the area in question was built in the 1920s and 1930s; except for the I-90/Mass Pike Boston Extension that was built in the mid-1960s.

Does it suck from a roadway standpoint?  Yes, but that's reality in many of these older cities.  Case and point, look how long it took for the Big Dig project to become reality.  It was originally conceived during the mid 1970s, got federal approval (via a congressional override of President Reagan's veto (due to overall cost)) in 1987 and it was finally completed in the 2000s.

I don't. I have an excellent memory. All I do is just type in the directions to whatever location I'm doing and I remember this in my head. Its like an external hard drive or something. I can just remember, besides, I think a GPS sucks. Fuck GPS, I rather use my brain.

Quote from: Lytton on March 19, 2013, 12:11:03 AM
I don't. I have an excellent memory. All I do is just type in the directions to whatever location I'm doing and I remember this in my head. Its like an external hard drive or something. I can just remember, besides, I think a GPS sucks.

Agree 100%.

Quote from: Lytton on March 19, 2013, 12:11:03 AM
I rather use my brain.

Amen to that.

One after my own heart so to speak.

A recent update regarding that Feb. bus crash in Boston:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130412_Bus_driver_who_struck_Soldiers_Field_Road_overpass_is_criminally_charged.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130412_Bus_driver_who_struck_Soldiers_Field_Road_overpass_is_criminally_charged.html)

Key Excepts (bold emphasis added):

Samuel J. Jackson, 67, of West Philadelphia, will be charged with criminal negligence as well as civil charges of failing to obey signs and driving a bus on an unauthorized road, according to police. In a news release, the police said Jackson "failed to heed warning signs" posted about height restrictions, and did not slow down when approaching the 10-foot overhang into which the bus smashed.
...
After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary Coach, the bus company hired by the nonprofit, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

At present, the defense has not commented (no surprise there).  IMHO, it might be prudent for them to do a site inventory of the related signage along the driver's course.

Quote from: PHLBOS on April 12, 2013, 08:58:25 AM
Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

if you require such a long interval of time, equivalent to a sign passing through your field of vision at ordinary travel speeds, just to read the GPS, then you should give up either your GPS or your driver's license.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 12, 2013, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: PHLBOS on April 12, 2013, 08:58:25 AM
Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

if you require such a long interval of time, equivalent to a sign passing through your field of vision at ordinary travel speeds, just to read the GPS, then you should give up either your GPS or your driver's license.

Agreed.

I've got a Nuvi 3490 LMT. Even though I'm only 12, and I always know where to go because I am the GPS, I just like to look at it like a toy.

Not to bump an old thread, but there's been a recent update regarding the bus driver involved in last February's crash.  The driver, Samuel J. Jackson, has entered a "not guilty" plea to the neglegent driving charges.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/bucksinq/Bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/bucksinq/Bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty.html)

Excerpts:

The driver who crashed a bus full of Bucks County students into a Boston overpass in February pleaded not guilty Tuesday to criminal charges of negligence in district court in Massachussetts, according to the Suffolk County District Attorney's Office.
...

Ray Talmadge, owner of Calvary Coach, which Jackson was driving for, told WCAU-TV in February that Jackson was looking at his GPS unit and couldn't slow the bus in time to avoid hitting the overpass.

Talmadge, in a brief telephone conversation, said he doesn't know anything about the charges against Jackson. Asked if Jackson was still employed by Calvary Coach, Jackson said, "Calvary's no more."

Interesting... one has to wonder why the bus company has since shut down?  :hmmm:

From a Boston area source,

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/06/04/bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty-boston-crash/A24DP57RXw0utL7SNzT1sO/story.html (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/06/04/bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty-boston-crash/A24DP57RXw0utL7SNzT1sO/story.html)

Excerpt:

A Philadelphia tour bus driver has pleaded not guilty to negligent driving in a February crash that injured 35 teenagers and chaperones who had visited Harvard University.

Sixty-seven-year-old Samuel Jackson was arraigned Tuesday in Brighton District Court on a misdemeanor charge of negligent operation of a motor vehicle and two civil driving infractions. Jackson was released on personal recognizance and returns to court July 24. He and his attorney didn't comment to reporters outside court.

Police said Jackson said he was following GPS directions and didn't see signs warning of a low overpass on Soldiers Field Road before the bus struck it the night of Feb. 2.

Another Civil Lawsuit is being filed by a lawyer respresenting three of those injured in the crash.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/2nd-Civil-Suit-Coming-in-Boston-Tour-Bus-Crash-209644201.html (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/2nd-Civil-Suit-Coming-in-Boston-Tour-Bus-Crash-209644201.html)

Excerpt:

Several people seriously hurt when a Philadelphia tour bus carrying high school students slammed head-on into a Boston, Mass. overpass are filing suit against the driver and coach company.

Attorney Tom Kline says he will be filing a lawsuit for three passengers injured in the February 2 crash.

The saga continues.

I was just reminded last night of how dumb people have become by relying on GPS devices.  We had a cable tech working in Pittsburg, KS.  She went to one customer's house but didn't get an answer at the door; I called the guy, he was on the road, and I advised that the tech would go to her next appointment, in Arma, and then come back.  So that's what she did.  After completing that next order, I let her know her customer was now waiting for her arrival.  Time passed, and she still hadn't started the job in our tracking program.  I called her up, and she told me her GPS had given her a wrong turn and she'd driven miles out of her way.

She had just driven the exact route between the two houses, just reversed, not one hour earlier!  Please!

I was dealing with a contractor who was relying on a GPS last week in Rockford to find the site for a walkthrough.  The site was on the west side of Rockford, and he was coming from Schaumburg, up I-90.  He followed his GPS off onto Business US-20 instead of staying on the US-20 Bypass to the correct exit.  I had to reroute him back onto the Bypass to get to the site.  Stupid thing is, I had just told him about an hour and a half earlier to use the US-20 Bypass to the exit near the site.  :banghead:

I can easily understand someone's confusing "Business 20" and "20 Bypass".

Of course, for every misuse of technology, there's an equal number of failures to take advantage of the available information that technology provides. Here in New York City, whose residents are notorious for not being able to navigate their way out of a paper bag despite their ostensible savviness, I'm always amazed at the amount of shock and surprise on people's faces when the subway executes a planned service diversion. In one case, a local train was being short-turned and ran express for its last few stops. I found out about it on my smartphone and/or the MTA web site, then there were all these signs posted all over the platform, then the train conductor made a series of identical announcements loudly over the PA system, before pulling out of the last transfer station. Suddenly, as the train begins its divergent route, this one girl looks up, pulls out her earbuds and says, "Oh great, wish they would have announced this was happening!"

I'd have written her off as just one unobservant traveller, but it sparked a conversation with all the other people sitting nearby, all equally surprised and annoyed. At one point a guy says, "I don't know why they have to do this, anyway!" Naturally, I answered his question, since I knew the answer (the train has to relay from the express tracks to make the short turn), but his reaction to being told the answer wasn't one of any satisfaction (or even interest). I guess that sums it up, really: people have questions, but when given the answer they aren't receptive to it, assuming they've even articulated the question in the first place!

I think I've mentioned this before,  but I got one as a gift years ago, and I really don't use it. I think I tried to set it up and it turned out like crap. Not that I haven't been tempted to find other uses for it, but I'm better off without it.

:-P

I'll use it if I don't know the area, but I usually just look at the map beforehand and memorize my route

Quote from: D-Dey65 on June 05, 2013, 11:43:19 AM
I think I've mentioned this before,  but I got one as a gift years ago, and I really don't use it. I think I tried to set it up and it turned out like crap. Not that I haven't been tempted to find other uses for it, but I'm better off without it.

:-P

Paperweight.  :-D

Quote from: ET21 on June 05, 2013, 08:10:27 PM
I'll use it if I don't know the area, but I usually just look at the map beforehand and memorize my route

That's what I usually do.  At worst, I'll make a schematic map on paper of my turns and streets to follow.

People don't know how to memorize anymore.

Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2013, 10:47:16 AM
People don't know how to memorize anymore.

I'm an exception  :) :)

Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:31:12 AMI guess that sums it up, really: people have questions, but when given the answer they aren't receptive to it, assuming they've even articulated the question in the first place!

...except when it comes from their GPS!

I visited NYC last week and did take note of the service change for the night when I went to Brooklyn to see a concert. I'm not sure how many people didn't.

I got a Magellan GPS as a gift a while ago. Haven't used it yet. The latest update is at least six months late on the progress of A-30. (from that update's release date, that is)

Quote from: CrossCountryRoads on January 29, 2013, 10:04:31 AM
Just curious how many of us here use a GPS even though we know a lot of the roads we travel.  I like to use one in cities and also because I like how mine will give you the exact mileage and ETA to your destination.  How about you guys?  Do you ever use them or do you consider them "cheating"?

I like the traffic feature in Google maps... gives me an idea of what route to take... I also like the ETA given.  I put it on satellite view so you can see the land around roads.  And of course where there should be new roads built or realigned

Quote from: Brandon on June 05, 2013, 11:07:35 PM
Paperweight.  :-D

More like de-facto radar detector.

I use mine mainly to verify my speedometer is working correctly. Occasionally, I'll use it to find find a gas station while I'm on the road.

I use Google Maps like I used to use paper maps.  I read them and basically commit the basic highway scheme to memory, and then go from that.

I have been known to use it when looking for an obscure address in a residential area, but you all know how useless Google maps can be in that situation.

I do NOT use GPS-es. Two words as to one reason why I don't: solar storm.

I use the Waze app.

Generally, I have the Inrix app running.  Have used the VZNavigator software in my phone to locate specific addresses that I have never been to before. 

Quote from: mjb2002 on July 07, 2013, 05:00:15 PM
I do NOT use GPS-es. Two words as to one reason why I don't: solar storm.

You'd better get off of the Internet immediately. That's not going to work either if a solar storm comes!

Quote from: realjd on July 08, 2013, 07:25:47 AM

Quote from: mjb2002 on July 07, 2013, 05:00:15 PM
I do NOT use GPS-es. Two words as to one reason why I don't: solar storm.

You'd better get off of the Internet immediately. That's not going to work either if a solar storm comes!

It's okay, the tac-mars are still visible. Unless the black helicopters are obscuring the view.

Thread Bump:

Only because the attached short article is an update regarding the bus crash on Soldiers Field Road nearly 2 years ago that was discussed in this particular thread.

Bus Wreck Passengers Sue GPS Device Makers (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20150127_Bus-wreck_passengers_sue_GPS-device_makers.html)

QuoteThe suit, filed Friday in Boston, claims the Tomtom and Garmin GPS devices put the bus driver on an inappropriate route "in disregard of a foreseeable and foreseen risk."

The suit also named as defendants the Bucks County bus driver and owner, the bus manufacturers, and the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation, which maintained the road and its signs.

While I am a critic of GPS' (moreso how they're overused/over-relied upon rather than the devices themselves) and was blaming the bus driver when this crash took place; I think suing the GPS makers for such is way over the top.  After reading this, I'm surprised that Harvard University wasn't named as a defendant because they should've told the bus driver which roads to avoid due to clearance issues.

As far as blaming the DCR for its signs is concerned; even if the chain-suspended CARS ONLY banner was missing at the time (GSV (http://goo.gl/maps/aadqM) shows it present) of the crash, there still was an overhead sign reading DANGER LOW CLEARANCE with a supplemental Truck-Banging warning sign (surprisingly, neither the 2003 nor 2009 MUTCD doesn't have a listing for such, despite it being used at various locations nationwide) and a NO TRUCKS OR BUSSES sign posted. 

Yes, some can argue that the structure clearance height should've been listed (or at least the lowest clearance if the various overpass heights vary); but a bus driver who's not familiar with the area should not have chanced it (IMHO); especially when carrying passengers.

IMHO, the only major signage issue I see is that there's no signs (from what I can see) telling trucks/busses/overheight vehicles where to go.  Such signs don't have to be freeway-sized BGS' erected all over the place, but they sould be large enough to see and placed at key areas & intersections.  That particular aspect might get some legal traction in an accident case like this.

Assuming that this bus was trying to get to the Mass Pike (I-90) at the time of the crash (the Allston-Brighton interchange wasn't too far away); trailblazer signage such as:

TRUCK
ROUTE
TO
90 (I-shield)
with appropriate arrow should be sufficient.

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 26, 2015, 05:34:55 PM
Assuming that this bus was trying to get to the Mass Pike (I-90) at the time of the crash (the Allston-Brighton interchange wasn't too far away); trailblazer signage such as:

TRUCK
ROUTE
TO
90 (I-shield)
with appropriate arrow should be sufficient.

Shouldn't it be "overheight vehicle" or "tall vehicle" route, to apply to buses and other vehicles?  It was, after all, a bus that got snagged in this instance, and sometimes trucks are banned from a road for weight or other non-height reasons.  Or "OVERHEIGHT (height limit) ROUTE"?

Quote from: oscar on January 26, 2015, 06:00:54 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 26, 2015, 05:34:55 PM
Assuming that this bus was trying to get to the Mass Pike (I-90) at the time of the crash (the Allston-Brighton interchange wasn't too far away); trailblazer signage such as:

TRUCK
ROUTE
TO
90 (I-shield)
with appropriate arrow should be sufficient.

Shouldn't it be "overheight vehicle" or "tall vehicle" route, to apply to buses and other vehicles?  It was, after all, a bus that got snagged in this instance, and sometimes trucks are banned from a road for weight or other non-height reasons.  Or "OVERHEIGHT (height limit) ROUTE"?

An OVERHEIGHT VEHICLE trailblazer panel can indeed be used en lieu of the fore-metioned TRUCK ROUTE panel or a TRUCK/BUS ROUTE panel could be used as well.

The sample trailblazer sign arrangement I posted earlier consisted of off-the-shelf MUTCD panels.

To my knowledge, neither the suggested OVERHEIGHT VEHICLE nor TRUCK/BUS ROUTE panels are official MUTCD signs per say.  Maybe it's time for those to be incorporated into MUTCD because Soldiers Field Road isn't the only road that has clearance issues for overheight vehicles.

The thing is, someone might see "overheight" and assume that since they didn't need an overheight permit to drive on the road that they can ignore the sign.  Since only cars area allowed on Soldiers Field Rd, a truck route for alternate traffic should suffice.  Remember, we're talking about the same people who would buy a passenger car GPS for a bus and then wonder why they crashed into an overpass.

The lawsuit will probably get thrown out almost immediately.  Garmin and TomTom aren't responsible for the driver being too cheap to buy the correct type of GPS for his vehicle, or the fact that he's incapable of reading road signs.

Quote from: vdeane on January 27, 2015, 01:05:57 PMThe lawsuit will probably get thrown out almost immediately.  Garmin and TomTom aren't responsible for the driver being too cheap to buy the correct type of GPS for his vehicle, or the fact that he's incapable of reading road signs.

I agree 100%.

The only lawsuit I'd see sticking would be one made against the bus company (IIRC has since gone out of business) and/or the driver himself.

Looking at the details of the accident, I cannot help but be reminded of the site 11 foot 8 (http://markholtz.info/11foot8) and the footage of all the trucks and RVs that have been opened. This is 1 foot 8 inches shorter.

I also checked the price for "Trucker" GPS systems, and they run around $300-$400 for a good unit. I can imagine some cheapass bus operator stating something like why pay $300 for a GPS when he can pick one up from woot! for less than $100, not knowing or caring about the difference.

Another Thread Bump on the lighter side:

I saw this comic strip (http://dustincomics.com/comics/february-22-2015/) regarding GPS' (mainly cheap ones) and voice-commands a couple of weeks ago.  :sombrero: 

If anything, the strip slams voice-operated commands more than GPS usage.