AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 05:56:11 AM

Title: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 05:56:11 AM
How often do we see this in the US? 

http://goo.gl/maps/eY6zL

http://goo.gl/maps/3PxKj
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Brandon on January 31, 2013, 06:55:33 AM
Kalamazoo, Michigan:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1545.jpg&hash=e0090a3ccda2c113742014fd60889a96da0536c3)

It seems to be at traffic circles..er..roundabouts most often.  I'm not a fan.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 07:59:26 AM
How's this? Probably installed in 1978 when Downtown Crossing was closed to cars.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8216%2F8432779488_ab6eb3ebe4.jpg&hash=534a50b37afef82ca718baee293e9b2046b3fccf)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8048%2F8431698259_5a84fb6e1b.jpg&hash=01675d5fa0e6e4884736bf8eb7d969f045b2e779)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8228%2F8431685933_dc6d31625d.jpg&hash=258b17b405818f8ab4938494cd9f9171ee4fc029)

And this mutha, from before the mid-1970s.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8353%2F8431688719_1dc3ec0e15.jpg&hash=08ccd0224e068cdfc0b45c3fd4994a4963ed59a1)

all from http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: seicer on January 31, 2013, 08:58:52 AM
There are several in Lexington, Kentucky, notably at roundabouts. I wish we had more.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: formulanone on January 31, 2013, 09:28:45 AM
The roads near Legoland in Carlsbad, California have some:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FLegolandChevronSign.jpg&hash=c4df16d54f532c01fae0faa24798f9f306d72baf)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FCannonRoadChevronSign.jpg&hash=d55360d0c4183d20bc3d119e7a7fe08471888cc3)

There's also roundabout with similarly European-looking signage:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FLegolandCarlsbadRoundaboutSign.jpg&hash=70cec68fe3bca4f438802a9a6554bbae82c90dba)
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: on_wisconsin on January 31, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 07:59:26 AM
And this mutha, from before the mid-1970s.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8353%2F8431688719_1dc3ec0e15.jpg&hash=08ccd0224e068cdfc0b45c3fd4994a4963ed59a1)
It that Transport typeface as well?  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: J N Winkler on January 31, 2013, 10:20:38 AM
The term of art for what the OP calls "chevron signs" (not to be confused with curve chevrons, which are also used in Britain, or the chevron pattern on roundabout aprons, which in Britain has the standing of a traffic sign in its own right) is "flag sign."  Arizona DOT has been using British-style flag signs (minus the 60° angle on the chevron end of the sign panel) at newly constructed roundabouts.  The chamfered arms on the roundabout diagrammatics, which in Britain are called "map-type advance direction signs," are also used in Arizona, but not all examples have the 90° chamfer used in Britain--some have had chamfer angles as acute as 60°.  In Britain this element of a map-type sign is called a "stub arm."

Flag and map-type signs have also been experimented with in Colorado (I-70 corridor--Avon exit, if memory serves), Ohio (Franklin County), Ontario, and other US states and Canadian provinces.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on January 31, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 07:59:26 AM
And this mutha, from before the mid-1970s.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8353%2F8431688719_1dc3ec0e15.jpg&hash=08ccd0224e068cdfc0b45c3fd4994a4963ed59a1)
It that Transport typeface as well?  :eyebrow:
Looks like it!  The C-28, C-9 is also a British standard as well, though it's strange...  I'm not sure why it says C, when they're state routes.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: J N Winkler on January 31, 2013, 10:34:05 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 10:21:46 AMThe C-28, C-9 is also a British standard as well, though it's strange...

Actually they aren't--A, B, or M is the standard.  C-roads are technically a type of unclassified road which used to get (and may still get) grant at a preferential rate, but they were not and are not supposed to appear on signs.  This is why British road enthusiasts hunt for instances of their being explicitly signed.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: english si on January 31, 2013, 10:49:12 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 31, 2013, 10:20:38 AMThe term of art for what the OP calls "chevron signs" (not to be confused with curve chevrons, which are also used in Britain, or the chevron pattern on roundabout aprons, which in Britain has the standing of a traffic sign in its own right) is "flag sign."
Indeed. I was expecting this thread to be about these kind of signs (http://goo.gl/maps/13wOp), not flag signs.

I hadn't considered the painted brick markings on some roundabouts (http://goo.gl/maps/NGKpZ) (also note the use of what JNW calls 'curve chevrons' - which knowing him will be the correct term - many, or even most-but-not-all, roundabouts have those).
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Brandon on January 31, 2013, 10:56:45 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on January 31, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 07:59:26 AM
And this mutha, from before the mid-1970s.
{image}
It that Transport typeface as well?  :eyebrow:
Looks like it!  The C-28, C-9 is also a British standard as well, though it's strange...  I'm not sure why it says C, when they're state routes.

M-28 and M-9 would've made more sense as that is in Massachusetts.

Transport is one of the few typefaces that makes Clearview look good.  X-(
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 12:12:38 PM
Guys... C-* were city routes. They disappeared in the 1970s, with 9 and 28 returning to downtown.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212215~5500292:Shell-Map-of-Metropolitan-Boston-an?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212217~5500293:Downtown-Boston--Sightseeing-Guide-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No
Note how 28 followed the bypass, with C28 through downtown, while 9 became C9 at the bypass.

One reassurance sign survives for C1 and C9:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SxeYUkz2cCg%2FT8PE0-azf9I%2FAAAAAAAAAMw%2FDbvBpmreJaU%2Fs1600%2FDSC01327.jpg&hash=84fde983b07deee49da665bad75bbcc24e8e8c44)
from http://ramblingbostonian.blogspot.com/2012/05/weekend-of-roads.html
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 31, 2013, 10:20:38 AM
Flag and map-type signs have also been experimented with in Colorado (I-70 corridor--Avon exit, if memory serves), Ohio (Franklin County), Ontario, and other US states and Canadian provinces.

I recall Vail, CO as well, and maybe another exit?  (CO-82?)  definitely all along the 70 corridor, west of Denver.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: PurdueBill on January 31, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
Those Colorado 7/US 85 signs are really bonkers considering the white backgrounds...the US 85 shields blend right in. (http://goo.gl/maps/FJr0W)

My father is old enough to still call the Boston C routes the C names.  They disappeared before my time so I never learned their routings personally.

Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: cpzilliacus on January 31, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
Swedish variant : (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FLokaliseringsmarken_for_vagvisning%2FF5%2FF5-1%2Fladdahem%2FF5-1.png&hash=f602340259d98707eaa197cae4f33594aba801b4)

Finnish variant (green because this points to a motorway or super-2 entrance):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falk.tiehallinto.fi%2Fwww2%2Fliikennemerkit%2Fimages%2F649.gif&hash=10fdc5ad9b0130d12b65656ab9b0caa649e47067)

Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Alps on January 31, 2013, 07:48:09 PM
Not the US, but Prince Edward Island used to use chevrons for its guide signing.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fpe%2Fpe_12%2Fsoatway.jpg&hash=5e01402812366143b561f47a15338ed87b7919e7)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fpe%2Fpe_142%2Fe12.jpg&hash=2d94dc3c27f27e32acd4346374b53d827c4b39ee)
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: Steve on January 31, 2013, 07:48:09 PM
Not the US, but Prince Edward Island used to use chevrons for its guide signing.


a lot of places have in the past.

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/OR/OR19260991i1.jpg)

I have a sign similar to this from Washington.  North Carolina used a non-cutout white chevron-style until about a few years ago.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: formulanone on January 31, 2013, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
North Carolina used a non-cutout white chevron-style until about a few years ago.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FNC-TownMileageSign.jpg&hash=47849b302639fbd54af789efc81e6ac8dc3e45ff)

They're all over in the rural NC, and I like the fact they seem to be hand-painted.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Alps on January 31, 2013, 10:40:28 PM
Oh, that reminds me. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnh%2Fmisc%2Fplymouth.jpg&hash=9205c59e89238bde501a5ab7bfc8f12c1660f217)
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: mukade on January 31, 2013, 10:47:46 PM
The original freeway exit number tabs were not rectangles (I-94 in Michigan):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FI94-Millburg-Coloma-2.JPG&hash=8c7adb03c9001b1c6886240bc8fc8d26abc72514)
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Brandon on January 31, 2013, 10:57:20 PM
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 10:47:46 PM
The original freeway exit number tabs were not rectangles (I-94 in Michigan):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FI94-Millburg-Coloma-2.JPG&hash=8c7adb03c9001b1c6886240bc8fc8d26abc72514)

But, unlike some states, they were distance-based from the start.  That's still Exit 39 to this very day, and still for Millburg and Coloma.  I think the bridge is still the same one as well (this photo is looking eastbound, by the way).
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 31, 2013, 11:13:57 PM
Quote from: formulanone on January 31, 2013, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
North Carolina used a non-cutout white chevron-style until about a few years ago.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FNC-TownMileageSign.jpg&hash=47849b302639fbd54af789efc81e6ac8dc3e45ff)

They're all over in the rural NC, and I like the fact they seem to be hand-painted.

Those are common in Clark County, WA.
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 10:47:46 PM
The original freeway exit number tabs were not rectangles (I-94 in Michigan):
Original? Got a photo of one of NYC's parkways from 1938?
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: Road Hog on February 01, 2013, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on January 31, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 07:59:26 AM
And this mutha, from before the mid-1970s.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8353%2F8431688719_1dc3ec0e15.jpg&hash=08ccd0224e068cdfc0b45c3fd4994a4963ed59a1)
It that Transport typeface as well?  :eyebrow:

I'd love to know the story behind this sign. Was there some sort of US/UK "sign exchange"?
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: empirestate on February 01, 2013, 09:55:13 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2013, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 10:47:46 PM
The original freeway exit number tabs were not rectangles (I-94 in Michigan):
Original? Got a photo of one of NYC's parkways from 1938?

Closest I got was this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdanwoog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F04%2Fblog-merritt-signs1.jpg%3Fw%3D1000%26amp%3Bh%3D766&hash=b9b2267d7abd6e14bef00a0c6c6627d40d11cd2d)
Title: Re: UK-style chevron signage in US
Post by: conekicker on February 03, 2013, 04:27:30 PM
Quote from: english si on January 31, 2013, 10:49:12 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 31, 2013, 10:20:38 AMThe term of art for what the OP calls "chevron signs" (not to be confused with curve chevrons, which are also used in Britain, or the chevron pattern on roundabout aprons, which in Britain has the standing of a traffic sign in its own right) is "flag sign."
Indeed. I was expecting this thread to be about these kind of signs (http://goo.gl/maps/13wOp), not flag signs.

I hadn't considered the painted brick markings on some roundabouts (http://goo.gl/maps/NGKpZ) (also note the use of what JNW calls 'curve chevrons' - which knowing him will be the correct term - many, or even most-but-not-all, roundabouts have those).
The block paving markings are these:

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/traffic-signs-working-drawings/warningp500series/2sharpdeviationofrouteat4508.pdf

Colloquially known as "Oxford collars" as they were first used in Oxford, (or Oxford was one of the first places they were installed). The block paving is also expensive in comparison to a strip of grass! They also look unsightly if not maintained - weed growth - and the reflective finish (if applied) to the white blocks can wear quite quickly. They aren't that common as most roundabouts are adequately served by the Diagram 606 sign.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/traffic-signs-working-drawings/regulatoryp600series/p606turnleftandvariants.pdf

Although you often see chevron boards (Diagram 515) below the 606, it's not compulsory.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/traffic-signs-working-drawings/warningp500series/p515sharpdeviationofroute.pdf

Use of 515 is occasionally overdone  :-o:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.422126,-1.412086&spn=0.001646,0.005198&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.422449,-1.412043&panoid=XkUqXZBt7TUma8vo1XT0nw&cbp=12,117.51,,0,14.21