What is it with states decommissioning their state highway 13s? Kansas truncated most of K-13 in favor of K-177. Arkansas changed AR 13 to AR 81 and later to US 425, even though AR 13 has been reused near Beebe. Were state highway departments superstitious? Are there any other highway 13s that were eliminated or truncated?
OK 3W replaced OK 13 in 1976.
the original California numbering system of 1934 did not include a 13. A NorCal north-south route would have had a number in the pattern 5, 9, ... , 17, 21, etc - and all the others are represented, up to 53. 13 entered the system sometime in the early 50s.
Ontario has never had a Highway 13. When the provincial route numbering system was debuted in the 1920s, it included numbers 2 through 17, with a highway numbered 12A in the grid where 13 should have been. Ontario did however have a Hwy 666 for a while.
I bet there are more renumbered 69s than 13s. There are certainly several where the change was definitely due to theft (CA, NJ, TX, UT).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 04, 2013, 03:39:53 PM
the original California numbering system of 1934 did not include a 13. A NorCal north-south route would have had a number in the pattern 5, 9, ... , 17, 21, etc - and all the others are represented, up to 53. 13 entered the system sometime in the early 50s.
Actually the original system included 13 but no 17 (or 21). But 13 was inexplicably renumbered to 17 within a few years.
http://www.gbcnet.com/roads/ca_routes_1934.html
Florida still has its 13 and 69 from 1945. And there's a 666 (formerly a spur of 699).
Indiana's SR 13 is alive and well.
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=s0013in
Quote from: NE2 on February 04, 2013, 03:57:15 PM
Actually the original system included 13 but no 17 (or 21). But 13 was inexplicably renumbered to 17 within a few years.
http://www.gbcnet.com/roads/ca_routes_1934.html
from what I understand, that August '34 issue of California Highways and Public Works had a preliminary system featured... and by the time the signage came, 13 had become 17. (kinda like the '26 Rand McNally featuring a non-finalized US route system)
IL-13 is alive and well in Illinois on most of the same roads as when it was designated as State Bond Issue (SBI) Route 13 in 1918.
M-13 is also kicking in Michigan; however, the original M-13 was decommissioned in favor of US-131. It also has a connecting route, CONN M-13 to/from I-75.
Wis-13 is one of the longer route in Wisconsin, running from the Dells to Bayfield, and then back west to Superior. Much of this is the original State Trunk Highway (STH) 13 from 1917-18. It originally went further south, all the way to Beloit. Wis-213 is a remnant of the original Wis-13 around Beloit.
NY 13 is also alive and well.
Kentucky has a KY 13, but it's a very minor rural road entirely in one county.
Ohio 13 is a regionally-significant route in Ohio, having a few expressway portions.
Hawaii's route 130 on the Big Island, southeast of Hilo, was originally signed as route 13. That was when three-digit secondary routes ending in zero were generally signed with only the first two digits.
HDOT later decided, statewide, to sign such routes with their full route numbers, so 13 was re-signed as 130. Losing its "unlucky" number didn't protect the highway from the ever-erupting Kilauea volcano, which has truncated a few miles at the south end and occasionally threatens lava closures in the middle of the route.
NJ 13 is a tiny length of roadway over a bridge, basically unsigned and not connecting anywhere. But there are so many untaken numbers in the system, especially 3-digit numbers, that it makes no sense to have assigned 13. Clearly NJ is not interested in decommissioning it.
New England had a Route 13, and you still have MA-NH 13.
Connecticut, meanwhile, does not have and never has had a route 13 of any classification.
Not only does VA 13 still exist despite US 13 also being in the state, there were briefly two of them at once!
http://www.vahighways.com/route-log/va013.htm
Missouri has a 13 which runs almost the whole length of the state.
Arkansas has three 13's (actually, it's just chopped up)
Beebe-Humphrey, Judsonia and McRae.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 04, 2013, 08:17:06 PM
Connecticut, meanwhile, does not have and never has had a route 13 of any classification.
Neither do RI, VT, or ME. MA/NH 13 is the only route 13 in all of New England.
Both IL-13 and MO-13 have been mentioned already, but let me also say that both of them have substantial four-lane sections, in fact.
Most of Kentucky's neighbors have already been accounted for in this thread, except WV and TN. There is no WV 13, but there most assuredly is a TN 13.
Nevada's SR 13 had been directly supplanted by the southern extension of US 93, but continued to be defined by law until the 1976 renumbering.
Quote from: Steve on February 04, 2013, 08:14:53 PM
NJ 13 is a tiny length of roadway over a bridge, basically unsigned and not connecting anywhere. But there are so many untaken numbers in the system, especially 3-digit numbers, that it makes no sense to have assigned 13. Clearly NJ is not interested in decommissioning it.
NJ skipped 13 to 20 in the 1927 numbering. Later they took over part of Ocean County 13E (http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/Ocean/OceanCo_pix_1938_back.jpg) and kept the number. In 1953 they dropped the E.
IA 13 and MN 13 are both lengthy state highways with significant divided highway sections. NE 13, on the other hand, is a minor highway in northeastern Nebraska that doesn't especially go anywhere, although it still does exist. SD 13 is similar.
PA's segment of US 13 (PennDOT SR 0013) goes through some of the more crime-ridden areas of the state (North Philly, West Philly, Darby Borough & Chester).
I never understood the desire for Kansas to drop most of K-13's routing in favor of K-177, other than to make people think that it is an alternative to U.S. 77, which varies from 5 to 30 miles to the west at various points. It was almost legendary when it was 13, snaking through the Flint Hills as it did.
Much of the original alignment (as 177) is still used in some form, with some sections in Morris County rerouted decades ago, and the southern terminus shifted from US 77 in El Dorado to US 54 east of town because of the lake project about 35 years ago. If you look carefully, you can still see in Google Maps where the old roadbed disappears into the lake. Same thing north of Council Grove, with the "missing" rainbow arch in the middle of their lake. Of course, the exisitng K-13, north of Manhattan, is a different alignment due to another lake project.
I drive this road many times a month, so it is in my blood.
ICTRds
Utah's SR-13 also remains well intact--though slightly out of place*--from Brigham City to I-15 at Plymouth.
*Of course, an earlier SR-13 ran between US-91 at Cove Fort and US-89 at Sevier (along modern I-70), fitting the Routes-11-to-19-in-the-southwest numbering pattern.
Quote from: Takumi on February 04, 2013, 08:25:21 PM
Not only does VA 13 still exist despite US 13 also being in the state, there were briefly two of them at once!
http://www.vahighways.com/route-log/va013.htm
Virginia also has a 69, an unsigned 420, and various secondary routes numbered 666.
Meanwhile, two threads come together...
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 05, 2013, 01:24:30 AM
[Humor] TheOnion.com: Ray LaHood Resigns Following Mysterious Disappearance Of Country Road (http://www.theonion.com/articles/ray-lahood-resigns-following-mysterious-disappeara,31065/)
QuoteSecretary of Transportation Ray LaHood announced his resignation from the Obama Administration earlier this morning following his alleged involvement in the recent disappearance of U.S. Route 13.
GA 13 is alive and well, connecting Atlanta and Gainesville along the US 23/I-985 corridor, including an old alignment of I-85 at its south end.
The only unused two-digit number in the state is...yep, 69. It used to exist as a very short connector (about a mile) from NC 69 at the state line to US 76. It was overlaid with an extension of GA 17 in 1955 before being removed in the late 1950s.
Quote from: Eth on February 05, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
an old alignment of I-85 at its south end.
awesome! never knew that. any signage that has evidence of I-85 still survive?
Quebec had once a PQ-13 going from the VT border to Cowansville, Granby, Acton Vale, Drummondville, St-Celestin, Becancour, was extended to PQ-2 (now PQ-138) when the Laviolette bridge opened. Was renumbered PQ-139 from the VT border to Drummondville, PQ-122 and PQ-155 during the big renumbering of the early-to-mid 1970s.
Currently, there A-13 going from Dorval to St-Eustache, originally planned to reach A-50 to Mirabel.
LA 13 lives. However, LA 32 has been missing since the late 1950s or so.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 09:33:23 PM
awesome! never knew that. any signage that has evidence of I-85 still survive?
I don't know if they're still there, but some of the old exit numbers used to still be posted.
On the national stage, there is U.S. 13 running from Fayetteville, NC to Bristol, PA.
There was an I-13 planned at one point, but it ended up being numbered I-605 around Los Angeles.
Quote from: amh424 on February 05, 2013, 10:20:21 PM
There was an I-13 planned at one point
Only as a preliminary submission from Caltrans. Like your parents throwing around baby names and then realizing that Alan is allowed only when prohibited.
Alabama 13 is alive and well, although partly hidden by US 43.
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: amh424 on February 05, 2013, 10:20:21 PM
There was an I-13 planned at one point
Only as a preliminary submission from Caltrans. Like your parents throwing around baby names and then realizing that Alan is allowed only when prohibited.
it would have rivaled I-97 in length, and thus unsuitability as a 2di.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 06, 2013, 10:11:22 AM
it would have rivaled I-97 in length, and thus unsuitability as a 2di.
This was apparently before the 3DI rules were defined.
Texas had - but no longer has - an SH 13 in the panhandle.
There is still a TX Loop 13 around the southeast side of San Antonio.
/me wonders if we would all be carrying on a conversation this long about a totally random number, such as 19 or 112.
. . . I suspected as much. ;-)
Ohio has 19, and I think it has a 112 also.
Personally, I don't consider the number 13 to be particularly special, aside from its primeness. But were there a thread for comparing the state route 19's in different states, or the 112's, I might chime in anyway. Still, any such discussion (including this one) really could be mooted by a bit of good-old-fashioned research.
While I understand the logic behind skipping 13 for hotel floors and airplane rows, I don't necessarily think the same holds for highway numbers -- as this thread shows. As NE2 mentions, I think a conversation about the number 69 would be more interesting, and not (just) for that reason. In addition to the states he mentioned, when Oregon finally decided to sign Highway 69, they signed it as Route 569 instead.
For what it's worth, Washington has a 19 and a 112, but no 13. (No 69 either, but that's because it wouldn't fit in its numbering system.)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 06, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
While I understand the logic behind skipping 13 for hotel floors and airplane rows
what logic is that?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 06, 2013, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 06, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
While I understand the logic behind skipping 13 for hotel floors and airplane rows
what logic is that?
Making paying customers happy, even idiots.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 06, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
While I understand the logic behind skipping 13 for hotel floors and airplane rows...
Funny you mention that; I was bored at work one day, and was checking out Delta's fleet and seating plans (http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/about-delta/corporate-information/aircraft-fleet.html) online. Their numbering consistency along their fleet is unusual...some have a row 13, but others don't. But it really varies on the exact model and specifications of the plane.
For example, the Boeing 737-700/800s do have a row 13, but the 757-200/300s do not (they have 6 rows of First Class, then proceed to row 14).
The 767-300 (standard) has a row 13, but the 767-300ER or 767-400ER (extended range) does not, since it has the lie-flat seating with less overall seats for passengers. It proceeds to row 15 in the main cabin.
Boeing 777s have a row 13 in F, and then it goes sequentially from 1 to 14, then jumps to 31 (?).
The Airbus 319 and 320 just numbers sequentially, with no skip in the numbers (includes 13). The Airbus 330-200/300 is a little different; it has 6 first-class rows, and then seating in the main cabin starts with 10 (and includes 13).
McDonnell-Douglas MD-88 and MD-90 uses a row 13, but I was incorrect; the first class (F) comprises rows 1-4, then the main cabin (Y) starts with 10. I also just noticed that they don't use the MD-87 anymore, so they must have retired them all (last flew on one in 2011).
And the good old DC-9 uses a similar pattern; they have rows 1-4 in F, and Y begins at row 6. What happened to 5 is a mystery to me, but my guess is that either the crew jumpseats are numbered 5, or Delta (or NWA? Republic?) removed them make first class a little more accommodating.
Their CRJ-200 planes jump from row 12 to 14 (which is the last row on the plane, since there's no first class). Basically, they are the only ones to specifically leave out row 13 within the same class of cabin. See below:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FNoRow13-CRJ200.jpg&hash=334224c306bef611d301aaec3325f893bef9b3e7)
United uses a weird seating pattern on their 737s, which hops all over from 1-6 for First Class, and then jumps rows here and there so that all exit rows are the same row numbers along all their aircraft (except for the commuter jets). They call it "numbering consistency", but from what I recall the few times I've flown with them, row 13 seems to get axed.
US Airways seems to include a row 13 on their Boeings and Airbuses.
Southwest also keeps row 13 on their 737s.
[/end silly plane talk]
Quote from: vtk on February 06, 2013, 02:02:39 PM
Ohio has 19, and I think it has a 112 also.
Personally, I don't consider the number 13 to be particularly special, aside from its primeness. But were there a thread for comparing the state route 19's in different states, or the 112's, I might chime in anyway. Still, any such discussion (including this one) really could be mooted by a bit of good-old-fashioned research.
I was thinking earlier today: For all the time I lived in southern Illinois and drove on IL-13 nearly every day (especially for work, I drove many miles on it), it never even occurred to me that the number was unlucky.
Then again, I think nothing when I mention of a highway numbered 420. I do notice the number in US-666, but I'm certainly worst/best about spotting that number. My boss about jumps out of his seat whenever I read a phone number to him of, say, 811-390-6664. "Uh oh! Six-six-six! It's the devil's phone number!"
Quote from: formulanone on February 06, 2013, 04:47:03 PMFunny you mention that; I was bored at work one day, and was checking out Delta's fleet and seating plans (http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/about-delta/corporate-information/aircraft-fleet.html) online. Their numbering consistency along their fleet is unusual...some have a row 13, but others don't. But it really varies on the exact model and specifications of the plane.
For example, the Boeing 737-700/800s do have a row 13, but the 757-200/300s do not (they have 6 rows of First Class, then proceed to row 14).
The 767-300 (standard) has a row 13, but the 767-300ER or 767-400ER (extended range) does not, since it has the lie-flat seating with less overall seats for passengers. It proceeds to row 15 in the main cabin.
Boeing 777s have a row 13 in F, and then it goes sequentially from 1 to 14, then jumps to 31 (?).
The Airbus 319 and 320 just numbers sequentially, with no skip in the numbers (includes 13). The Airbus 330-200/300 is a little different; it has 6 first-class rows, and then seating in the main cabin starts with 10 (and includes 13).
McDonnell-Douglas MD-88 and MD-90 uses a row 13, but I was incorrect; the first class (F) comprises rows 1-4, then the main cabin (Y) starts with 10. I also just noticed that they don't use the MD-87 anymore, so they must have retired them all (last flew on one in 2011).
And the good old DC-9 uses a similar pattern; they have rows 1-4 in F, and Y begins at row 6. What happened to 5 is a mystery to me, but my guess is that either the crew jumpseats are numbered 5, or Delta (or NWA? Republic?) removed them make first class a little more accommodating.
Their CRJ-200 planes jump from row 12 to 14 (which is the last row on the plane, since there's no first class). Basically, they are the only ones to specifically leave out row 13 within the same class of cabin. See below:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FNoRow13-CRJ200.jpg&hash=334224c306bef611d301aaec3325f893bef9b3e7)
United uses a weird seating pattern on their 737s, which hops all over from 1-6 for First Class, and then jumps rows here and there so that all exit rows are the same row numbers along all their aircraft (except for the commuter jets). They call it "numbering consistency", but from what I recall the few times I've flown with them, row 13 seems to get axed.
US Airways seems to include a row 13 on their Boeings and Airbuses.
Southwest also keeps row 13 on their 737s.
[/end silly plane talk]
The inclusion of a Row 13, is strictly the
airlines' call and not that of the plane manufacturers.
I know for a fact that all of AirTran's planes (both the 717 & 737) skip row 13. The first row in Coach class starts at 10, but skips over to 14 on the fourth row
BTW, Delta never flew the MD-87.
Makes sense; although why it's all over the map is rather odd. Then again, the CRJ/ERJs are operated by some other regional airline.
I guess Southwest is going to have do a little extra interior work on AirTran's 737s (they're selling the 717s to Delta).
I grew up on a state highway 13, so I have an affinity for the number. It has always just been "the next one west of 51" for me. Since numerology is total made up bullshit, I have never understood ridiculous number-related superstitions.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 09:33:23 PM
Quote from: Eth on February 05, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
an old alignment of I-85 at its south end.
awesome! never knew that. any signage that has evidence of I-85 still survive?
Not that I've seen. Based on the style of the BGSes along the route, they appear to date back no earlier than about the mid-1990s. No evidence of any of the old exit numbers, either.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 06, 2013, 05:41:09 PM
I grew up on a state highway 13, so I have an affinity for the number. It has always just been "the next one west of 51" for me. Since numerology is total made up bullshit, I have never understood ridiculous number-related superstitions.
666 started its life as referring to an actual person whose name/title was written in numerical form in apocalyptic literature (Revelation was written from exile, so I'm sure you can understand why the author wouldn't have just said the emperor's name).
The origin of the number 13 is much murkier, and is debated.
As for 420 and 69...... Ah, let's all just grow up.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 09:33:23 PM
Quote from: Eth on February 05, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
an old alignment of I-85 at its south end.
awesome! never knew that. any signage that has evidence of I-85 still survive?
I was down there, and can report there's no real evidence of any sort worth photographing.
Colorado has a state hwy. 13, one of the few north-south routes in the NW part ot that state. NM 13 is still around , but just barely, in Chaves County.