SCHUYLKILL EXPRESSWAY (SKOO-cul)
When I was a kid, my family and I would use the Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) to visit my grandmother. I remember that it was often backed up with traffic because of accidents and simply because a lot of drivers were using it.
Recently, I read about the Schuylkill Expressway on Wikipedia and found out that it is not built to Interstate standards and that the traffic on it exceeds its capacity. It has many exits on the left side, and you have to cross several lanes of traffic (that drive faster than they should) to go from the Roosevelt Expressway to City Avenue (both labeled US-1).
I read that not much can be done about the existing Schuylkill Expressway because of the cliffs in Northwest Philadelphia, the Schuylkill River, and the Regional Rail lines. Additionally, parts of the road do not have adequate acceleration/deceleration lanes.
What are your thoughts of the Schuylkill Expressway? You can read more about it by clicking the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuylkill_Expressway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuylkill_Expressway)
The Schuylkill Expressway is often mispronounced by non-locals unless they are Dutch. Your pronunciation phonetic is accurate. The road is generally not to Interstate spec, mostly due to inadequate center median width in many areas. Steep hills on one side and the river on the other contribute to the difficulty in adding additional travel lanes to this busy highway. As an ex truck driver, it was high on my list of roads to avoid at all costs during traffic times. The outbound (76W) evening rush can begin before 3 PM. The 17 miles from I-676 to the Mainline PA Turnpike near King of Prussia can take over an hour under the best rush hour conditions, and well more if there is an accident, which is very common. In short, it is a wonderful highway to avoid whenever possible. This can be very difficult to do, as alternate routes add considerable mileage and cost to the trip. I still use this road occasionally as I have family in Montgomery County, but I do not see that it will likely get better in the near future.
The Schuylkill is one of the most cumbersome roads that I've ever driven on. It backs up frequently, and the speed limit isn't very high. That being said, I don't necessarily hate the road like a lot of others do. It's substandard, yes, but the road is not boring by any means.
One needs to remember that older highways like the Schuylkill Expressway were designed with the presumption that addtional highways would be later built to share the traffic burden in the not-too-distant future.
Sadly, for the Greater Philadelphia area, the majority of highways were either hopelessly delayed for decades in terms of being built and scaled down when they were eventually built (I-476, I-676 & the recently-opened US 202 Parkway in Montgomery County), or simply killed off (I-695/Crosstown & Cobbs Creek Expressways, Tacony/Pulaski Expressways, Manayunk Expressway, Lansdowne Expressway, Radnor Expressway/US 422 Extension to I-476). Many of those unbuilt roads (the latter three in particular) would've taken some of the traffic burden off I-76.
Traffic along the Schuylkill Expressway is one reason why I purposely and deliberately do not plan to reside near or along its corridor; whether my place of work is in Philadelphia or not.
When I first moved to the Delaware Valley from the Greater Boston/North Shore area nearly 23 years ago; I consulted w/some people beforehand where to reside and where not to reside.
The highway is not all that bad if you drive it when there is no traffic, the only thing that is annoying is the placement of the exits, left ones appear at odd intervals, and can sometimes cause backups onto the main lanes.
Is it the worst highway, far from it, i would say US1 in trenton is margnally worse in terms of design, but is better on traffic count. it is at least freeway grade, with controlled traffic entry/exit points. some cities do not even have that on their main route in and out of town.
When I think of the name, I think "School Kill". Many people on this site think "Sure Kill".
I always thought it was "sky kill" but my Dutch is pretty bad.
The Schuylkill was originally designed with enough room left over to widen it to three lanes in each direction - or so I've been told. I'd say I can't believe PennDOT hasn't widened it by now if that were the case, but this is PennDOT.
Three lanes with no shoulder, maybe. It looks a lot like older sections of the PTC in street view.
First time I was ever on the Schuylkill was riding with a friend of my father's to Mannheim. Sure enough, in the eastbound lanes, a car crashed into the barrier, and part of the car flew onto the hood of our car.
Philly's a great city, but a mainline interstate that connects (although somewhat indirectly) Pennsylvania's two largest cities should not be like that, IMHO.
Quote from: deanej on February 12, 2013, 05:33:30 PM
When I think of the name, I think "School Kill". Many people on this site think "Sure Kill".
I always seem to hear it as "skookle," but I always say "Surekill," even for the river.
Quote from: Steve on February 12, 2013, 06:59:03 PM
The Schuylkill was originally designed with enough room left over to widen it to three lanes in each direction - or so I've been told. I'd say I can't believe PennDOT hasn't widened it by now if that were the case, but this is PennDOT.
You mean like how the Ben Franklin, Walt Whitman, and Betsy Ross Bridges were originally eight (narrow) lanes? Even the Tacony-Palmyra was once four, and now it's two WB, one EB.
Quote from: Roadsguy on February 13, 2013, 08:16:11 AM
Quote from: deanej on February 12, 2013, 05:33:30 PM
When I think of the name, I think "School Kill". Many people on this site think "Sure Kill".
I always seem to hear it as "skookle," but I always say "Surekill," even for the river.
Quote from: Steve on February 12, 2013, 06:59:03 PM
The Schuylkill was originally designed with enough room left over to widen it to three lanes in each direction - or so I've been told. I'd say I can't believe PennDOT hasn't widened it by now if that were the case, but this is PennDOT.
You mean like how the Ben Franklin, Walt Whitman, and Betsy Ross Bridges were originally eight (narrow) lanes? Even the Tacony-Palmyra was once four, and now it's two WB, one EB.
The Walt Whitman bridge was never designed for 8 lanes. It has always been 7 lanes wide from when it was opened.
The Ben Franklin bridge never had 8 *travel* lanes. It had 6 travel lanes when it first opened, and a lane on the outside in each direction (but within the tower piers) for trolleys (not to be confused with what are now the PATCO tracks on the outside of the tower piers) The trolley lanes were removed, and the roadbed was widened to 7 travel lanes.
The Betsy Ross Bridge had 8, 11 foot lanes. It was also supposed to be part of a much larger, interstate highway system in the Philly area, handling a lot more traffic. It's since been reduced to 6 travel lanes with a jersey barrier (not a zipper barrier like the other 3 DRPA bridges) and right shoulders.
The Commodore Barry Bridge (the 4th DRPA bridge) has always been 5 lanes, although for some reason the gantries across the roadway were designed with lane control light inserts for 6 lanes.
Personally, I think the DRPA is horribly run, especially on the engineering/design side of things. Nearly all the interchange ramps have advisory speeds of 20 mph or less, probably due to improper banking of the ramps. Almost all of their BGS and EZ Pass signs have some sort of error. And they have a blanket 45 mph maximum speed limit on all their roadways, regardless of their design speed. On the Commodore Barry Bridge, I've often seen a 25 mph limit when there's roadwork going on, even if that roadwork is at the base of the bridge when you first approach the bridge and nothing else is occuring after that point.
My father and stepmother live a few blocks northeast of the Art Museum. We went PA 291 -> I-76/Schuylkill to get there once. Coming back, on my father's recommendation, we went around the Eakins Oval and took I-676/Vine to I-95. That worked well enough and if we go up there again we'll take I-95 to I-676.
Eventually, though, Eakins Oval to come back may not be an option. Mike Nutter, Philadelphia's mayor, wants to spruce up the Benjamin Franklin Parkway and wants to close the Oval as part of that. I don't know any details on that yet.
The Schuylkill Expy. is woefully inadequate for the job that its been asked to do. Yes, I realize that there's really no room for expansion. And that is too bad because it's the only direct way to get into downtown Philly from the west/northwest suburbs.
That said, it's so clogged with traffic through much of the day that it is quicker in many instances to take I-476 all the way down to I-95 then I-95 north into the city....which is easily triple the distance. The problem now is that building new freeways in a major northeastern city is basically impossible. So, there is no feasible way to widen the Schuylkill without it costing a fortune, yet there's really no option for bypassing it either.
Honestly, the best option is taking SEPTA Rail, which is what I often did during my short stay in that area.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on February 13, 2013, 03:36:56 PMHonestly, the best option is taking SEPTA Rail, which is what I often did during my short stay in that area.
Provided that your time of travel coincides with when the trains actually run. Outside of rush hours, the frequency of the service for most lines (except the (former-R1) Airport line) is usually hourly; and between 1 - 5 AM, no trains are running at all.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2013, 09:41:46 AMThe Betsy Ross Bridge had 8, 11 foot lanes. It was also supposed to be part of a much larger, interstate highway system in the Philly area, handling a lot more traffic. It's since been reduced to 6 travel lanes with a jersey barrier (not a zipper barrier like the other 3 DRPA bridges) and right shoulders.
It was originally supposed to connected the long-since-cancelled Tacony/Pulaski Expressway on the PA side and NJ 90 was originally planned to extend further east past I-295 & the NJTP and re-connect w/NJ 73 near Mt. Laurel. While there were no known plans for this bridge & connecting highways to be part of the Interstate system; I'm sure it would've been considered had even one of these highway segments been built.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2013, 09:41:46 AMThe Commodore Barry Bridge (the 4th DRPA bridge) has always been 5 lanes, although for some reason the gantries across the roadway were designed with lane control light inserts for 6 lanes.
I've never really noticed such. I'll have to check the next time I use that bridge. As far as the lane light inserts for 6 lanes is concerned; my guess is that it was likely a contractor error or design change order (to 5 lane lights) that wasn't carried out from the get-go.
Quote from: deanej on February 12, 2013, 09:16:26 PMThree lanes with no shoulder, maybe. It looks a lot like older sections of the PTC in street view.
Not surprising since they are basically from the same time period.
As a kid I remember seeing it on maps and pronouncing it either "shull kill" or "shoil kill". As I got a bit older I changed to "skoi kill". By high school I had settled on "skull kill", which is how I still pronounce it to this day, despite knowing it's wrong. "Skookle" just sounds weird to me and doesn't seem to match the text. I cannot mentally accept both the y and the l being silent.
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 12, 2013, 09:27:51 PM
First time I was ever on the Schuylkill was riding with a friend of my father's to Mannheim. Sure enough, in the eastbound lanes, a car crashed into the barrier, and part of the car flew onto the hood of our car.
Philly's a great city, but a mainline interstate that connects (although somewhat indirectly) Pennsylvania's two largest cities should not be like that, IMHO.
I donno if i'd use great. Like a lot of industrial cities is used to be great...now i'd say it's okay IMO. Most of the city itself is a hollowed out ghetto. But there are some great cultural areas in and around downtown.
I lived in King of Prussia for 2 years within sight of where the schuykill intersects the PA Turnpike. I have so many horrible memories of taking the Schuykill downtown. You would get to I-476 (blue route) and it would look okay...not that there was a real alternate route downtown, but then as soon as you passed the exit for I-476 she'd be jammed all the way downtown. With the next exit miles away in manayunk and no real alternate route there, you knew you were pretty much toast for the next hour or so. Very painful. Something should be done.
Quote from: mc78andrew on February 14, 2013, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 12, 2013, 09:27:51 PM
First time I was ever on the Schuylkill was riding with a friend of my father's to Mannheim. Sure enough, in the eastbound lanes, a car crashed into the barrier, and part of the car flew onto the hood of our car.
Philly's a great city, but a mainline interstate that connects (although somewhat indirectly) Pennsylvania's two largest cities should not be like that, IMHO.
I donno if i'd use great. Like a lot of industrial cities is used to be great...now i'd say it's okay IMO. Most of the city itself is a hollowed out ghetto. But there are some great cultural areas in and around downtown.
I lived in King of Prussia for 2 years within sight of where the schuykill intersects the PA Turnpike. I have so many horrible memories of taking the Schuykill downtown. You would get to I-476 (blue route) and it would look okay...not that there was a real alternate route downtown, but then as soon as you passed the exit for I-476 she'd be jammed all the way downtown. With the next exit miles away in manayunk and no real alternate route there, you knew you were pretty much toast for the next hour or so. Very painful. Something should be done.
Very well put - and accurate on all counts. :clap:
Quote from: mc78andrew on February 14, 2013, 08:21:41 PMI lived in King of Prussia for 2 years within sight of where the schuykill intersects the PA Turnpike. I have so many horrible memories of taking the Schuykill downtown. You would get to I-476 (blue route) and it would look okay...not that there was a real alternate route downtown, but then as soon as you passed the exit for I-476 she'd be jammed all the way downtown. With the next exit miles away in manayunk and no real alternate route there, you knew you were pretty much toast for the next hour or so. Very painful. Something should be done.
While I agree with you in principle, it sounds like you've been or were in the area long enough to at least
experiment with some alternate
non-highway roads to bypass that I-76 gridlock just east of I-476; mainly PA 23 (Conshocken State Road) or Ridge Pike (which is accessible from I-476 North). Both of which involve exiting off I-76 East at Exit 331B (I-476 North To PA 23 Plymouth Meeting - Conshohocken);
the point of no return IMHO.
There have been times when I've been heading westbound on I-76 (on a few of those days when I had to drive to work (in Philly) and then drive elsewhere afterwards) and found that I actually
saved time by exiting at Belmont Ave./Green Lane, made a couple of left-turns on Mannyunk side streets to get on Umbria St. From there, follow Umbria into Roxborough/Andorra to Port Royal Ave. Turn right on Port Royal, then left on Ridge Ave. and follow to I-476 (one exit north of where 476 interchanges w/I-76) and continue.
Also, checking KYW AM 1060 for their
Traffic on the 2s before you reach Exit 331B can at least give you a 'heads-up' regarding traffic; Sirrius/XM Channel 132 on the 4s gives you similar info. as well.
Sometimes one needs to think outside the highway box.
When my grandmom would drive from Wayne to her job at UPenn Anthropology (instead of taking the R5 to 30th St Station), her route was Connestoga Rd-Old Lancaster Rd-US 30-Booth Ln-Montgomery Ave-Greys Ln-Mill Creek Rd-Old Gulph Rd-Hagys Ford Rd-Righters Mill Rd-Conshohocken State Rd (Pa 23)-Belmont Ave.-Lansdowne Ave-N 34th St-Spruce/South St.
No, I don't recall how much time that drive would take her (either direction).
PennDOT Mulls Over Schuylkill Toll Road (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/02/18/penndot-mulls-over-schuylkill-toll-road/)
Years ago, then House Speaker John Perzel proposed double decking the Schuylkill at the same time then PTC CEO Joseph Brimmeier proposed doing the same to the Parkway East in Pittsburgh.
(Yes, I know no one has posted a reply on here since February, but I too have a thought about this highway, don't judge me.)
In May of 2012, I came to the Philadelphia area to meet a friend who lives out in Collegeville, not too far from U.S. Route 422, along Pennsylvania State Route 29. Anyway she said, 'Jess, lets take the Schuylkill. It should be clear now.' The ride on the 'Highway of Chaos' (My Own Term) was not pleasant. As soon as we got past Amtrak and SEPTA's (formerly the Pennsylvania Railroad's) 30th Street Station and the Vine Street Expressway (Interstate 676, and U.S. Route 30), we started hitting the traffic and it was a nightmare. And yes, that highway could use a widening but unfortunately it runs beside CSX Transportation, and Norfolk Southern running on former Reading Company railroad lines and briefly Amtrak. The time it would take to widen the road would be too vast to describe and besides the railroads would have to alter their track to handle a 'new' highway either running overhead or beside them. My advice to anyone wanting to visit Philadelphia, 'Stay as far away from I-76 as you can. It's an overly crowded, congested nightmare wrapped up into a primarily 4 lane highway that surely can kill your time.'
You mean the "lovely" and "safe" highway passing underneath said structure here? :happy:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fn6Pmbb1.jpg&hash=c219932eea90994d8dbf6554d249ee045fdcbd63)
For Philly I would push the revival of the PA 23 expressway on the east shore but as a 3 lane revesable HOT3 lane facility, 2 lanes with traffic, 1 lane contraflow. For Pittsburgh, a similar facility along the east busway row from Wilkinsburg to 11th and Liberty, variable pricing, ezpass.
I would say I-76 in Philly is way more congested than US-22 in the Lehigh Valley and for myself when ever I drove over I-76 from the I-476 interchange up to the I-676 exit or the Walt Whitman bridge going to Frankilnville/ Deptford , NJ area I would spend 30-45 min in traffic to traverse the 30 mi drive from I-476 up to the RT-42/I-295 interchange in Belmawr, NJ. I would consider I-76 to be 4x4 from exit 340-327 because I-76 forms the main Philly-Pittsburgh via Harrisburg corridor and does connect to I-476 at exit 331 which forms the Philly to Allentown/Bethlehem and Easton Corridor with I-476 forming the 40 mile gap from I-76 up to US-22