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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: ilvny on February 15, 2013, 07:52:21 PM

Title: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: ilvny on February 15, 2013, 07:52:21 PM
Does this happen to you?  You're one a two-lane road (one lane each direction) about to make a left turn and you have to wait for the oncoming traffic to pass before you make the turn.  While you're waiting, the drivers behind you decide to pass you on the shoulder, which is illegal.  I find it annoying because it shows blatant impatience and is potentially dangerous for the illegally passing vehicle and the vehicle waiting to turn.  What if the turner changes their mind and decides to go straight?  What if the passing driver misjudges the amount of space between the shoulder and the waiting car?  The passing driver could sideswipe the other car.

Illegal passing: annoying and dangerous.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: bugo on February 15, 2013, 07:56:45 PM
It's not illegal, at least in some states, as long as the car that is turning is stopped.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Ian on February 15, 2013, 08:17:10 PM
As far as I'm aware, this maneuver is not illegal. Everywhere I've been, it seems to be common sense among all drivers to go around a turning vehicle on the shoulder if the shoulder is wide enough. In Maryland, they even encourage the maneuver on some roads, as they create a new lane on the shoulder for cars to pass turning vehicles (example (http://goo.gl/maps/BxeOZ)).
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: rarnold on February 15, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Dangerous practice, especially in low-visibility areas. Is it really an inconvenience to wait a few seconds for someone to turn left, as opposed to rear-ending a car on the shoulder. I know in Iowa it would be suicidal to pass on the shoulder, as most shoulders are gravel, but people don't pull over for emergency vehicles anymore, either.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Big John on February 15, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on February 15, 2013, 08:17:10 PM
In Maryland, they even encourage the maneuver on some roads, as they create a new lane on the shoulder for cars to pass turning vehicles (example (http://goo.gl/maps/BxeOZ)).
They do the same thing in Wisconsin, except it is a striped white line.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: algorerhythms on February 15, 2013, 09:03:41 PM
As has been noted, it's legal in many states. In fact, the one question I still remember from when I took the Maryland written driving test was on this topic. The correct answer was that it's legal in Maryland.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: tdindy88 on February 15, 2013, 09:04:14 PM
Indiana utilizes these shoulders a lot along two-lane rural and suburban roadways. The official INDOT term for them is "passing blisters" and they are designed for such maneuvers. Here's one of many examples:

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.894518,-86.391592&spn=0.003294,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.89442,-86.392619&panoid=fmfWFSS8BcZA0eqZ8r0jYg&cbp=12,353.47,,0,9.62

Such maneuvers are not only encouraged, but expected from drivers who encounter this situation. If there is a road that turns off to the right as well as the left, the passing blister also serves as a turning lane to the right. These are very common in Indiana and I know I've seen them in Michigan too.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Duke87 on February 15, 2013, 09:06:42 PM
The maneuver you describe is specifically illegal in Vermont (they have signs stating such). I do not know offhand of any other states where this is the case.

I, for one, will perform the move without a thought if there's room and find the fact that Vermont bans it to be stupid. Really, there is no risk associated with it since the only possible conflicting move is another vehicle turning off of the side road, and they're supposed to yield to you anyway.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: citrus on February 15, 2013, 09:16:30 PM
This was SOP in Rhode Island where I grew up. Only when there was space, of course, but a patch of dirt sometimes counted as "space", and never at full speed. When I lived in San Diego I noticed many people did not do this. In San Francisco, it's pretty common (as is dodging all sorts of other road obstacles).
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: rarnold on February 15, 2013, 10:04:03 PM
We have the "passing blisters" here in Kansas as well. However, I don't see those as being the same as passing on the shoulder. Those passing lanes were designed to be driven in, the shoulder in many cases was not.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Kacie Jane on February 15, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
I want to say it's illegal in Washington, but I don't know for certain and I'm too lazy to look up for sure.  (Even if it is illegal, it doesn't stop many people from doing it.  I do it sometimes but rarely -- but I'm rarely in a situation where I'd need to.)

I am certain that if there are bike lanes, it's illegal to cross into the bike lane to pass on the right.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 15, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
I am certain that if there are bike lanes, it's illegal to cross into the bike lane to pass on the right.
Unless you're on a bike. :bigass:
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 15, 2013, 10:51:33 PM
It's illegal in NJ to pass on the shoulder, but yet, I've seen NJDOT design paperwork online which notes that, when possible, shoulders should be built wide enough for motorists to pass left-turning vehicles.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: wxfree on February 16, 2013, 12:37:44 AM
It's legal in Texas.  Statute allows driving on an improved shoulder to the right of the main lane to pass a vehicle in the lane turning left, and also allows driving on the paved shoulder for decelerating in preparation for a right turn, accelerating before entering the main lane, or to allow a faster vehicle to pass.

If you think it should be illegal to pass a left-turning vehicle on the paved shoulder, do you also think it should be illegal to drive on a paved shoulder for those other purposes?  To me, they seem to be fairly equivalent maneuvers, with only the direction of the shear (which side the faster car is on) being different.  If you don't want passing of a left-turning vehicle on the shoulder, would you also not want a right-turning vehicle to move over to the shoulder to allow passing?  The differences in speed and distances between cars are the same.  Actually, I generally slow down when going over to the shoulder to pass, so the difference in speed when passing on the right is smaller the way I do it.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: roadfro on February 16, 2013, 06:04:00 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on February 15, 2013, 09:04:14 PM
Indiana utilizes these shoulders a lot along two-lane rural and suburban roadways. The official INDOT term for them is "passing blisters" and they are designed for such maneuvers. Here's one of many examples:

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.894518,-86.391592&spn=0.003294,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.89442,-86.392619&panoid=fmfWFSS8BcZA0eqZ8r0jYg&cbp=12,353.47,,0,9.62

It seems that if the DOT recognizes stopped turning vehicles would cause an issue and a "passing blister" is needed, wouldn't it just make more sense to put in a short turn lane instead? That seems to be Nevada DOT's way of doing it.

I'm not sure that Nevada allows passing on the shoulder. I do not remember it from driver's ed, and I don't think I've ever seen it in practice.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: colinstu on February 16, 2013, 10:21:21 AM
Passing a left-turning vehicle via a paved shoulder is legal in WI. http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/types/law-changes-2010.htm

Un-paved? Not safe and not legal. But lots of these T-intersections have been upgraded to have a paved shoulder / lane to pass.

I never thought of this (the legal one) being a problem. Nice for the car who wants to keep going forward, and one less car at the scene of an accident if another car doesn't pass in time / doesn't brake and rams into the left-turning vehicle.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: empirestate on February 16, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
Illegal in NY:

Quote§ 1131. Driving on shoulders and slopes. Except for bicycles and those
  classes  of vehicles required to travel on shoulders or slopes, no motor
  vehicle shall be driven over, across, along, or within any  shoulder  or
  slope  of  any  state  controlled-access  highway  except  at a location
  specifically authorized and posted by the department of  transportation.
  The  foregoing  limitation  shall  not prevent motor vehicles from using
  shoulders or slopes when directed by police officers or flagpersons, nor
  does it prevent motor vehicles from stopping, standing,  or  parking  on
  shoulders or slopes where such stopping, standing, or parking is lawful.

As a result, I don't usually do it, but I'll admit I'm surprised to learn that it's allowed in as many places as it is. Of course, if I'm the one guy out of a line of cars behind me who doesn't go around the turning vehicle, it can lead to interesting conflicts between me proceeding in the travel lane (once the way ahead is clear) and those trying to merge back in from the shoulder.

I will sometimes edge around the turning car after having stopped, if undue congestion seems to be occurring or if I judge the minor violation to be less than the chaos of me vs. the huge line of illegal passers mentioned above.

NYS specifically posts signs stating that the shoulder is off-limits, though usually this is to discourage its use as a right turn lane rather than a passing lane.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: JREwing78 on February 16, 2013, 10:59:19 AM
It's definitely illegal in Michigan in the absence of a "passing blister", though I've seen it done all the time anyway.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Alps on February 16, 2013, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 15, 2013, 10:51:33 PM
It's illegal in NJ to pass on the shoulder, but yet, I've seen NJDOT design paperwork online which notes that, when possible, shoulders should be built wide enough for motorists to pass left-turning vehicles.
I've never found any language supporting it being illegal here, only supporting it being legal like you say. Also, my understanding is that the only time you get in real trouble for it is if you scrape something as you go by.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Alps on February 16, 2013, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?
I've done it before - accidentally, not realizing the guy was about to turn left because he slowed before using the blinker. It's dangerous, certainly. I'd like to see a law that you can't pass on the left if someone has their left blinker on - that would also stop the "back pass" of someone who's a little slow to pull out and start passing the car in front.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: sp_redelectric on February 16, 2013, 11:41:36 AM
Oregon:  Legal, as long as you do not leave the pavement while passing, AND you cannot use a bicycle lane to pass on the right.

(reference: Oregon Class C Driver's Manual, page 45.)
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 12:28:23 PM
Quote from: Steve on February 16, 2013, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?
I've done it before - accidentally, not realizing the guy was about to turn left because he slowed before using the blinker. It's dangerous, certainly. I'd like to see a law that you can't pass on the left if someone has their left blinker on - that would also stop the "back pass" of someone who's a little slow to pull out and start passing the car in front.

I've done it before too, but only on accident.  The guy in front didn't put his blinker on until I'd already entered the left lane and started passing him.  I was really hoping he would notice me!
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: vdeane on February 16, 2013, 02:30:58 PM
Quote from: rarnold on February 15, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Dangerous practice, especially in low-visibility areas. Is it really an inconvenience to wait a few seconds for someone to turn left, as opposed to rear-ending a car on the shoulder. I know in Iowa it would be suicidal to pass on the shoulder, as most shoulders are gravel, but people don't pull over for emergency vehicles anymore, either.
I know of many places where you could be waiting for five minutes if you don't pass.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Kacie Jane on February 16, 2013, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?

I think typically it's illegal to pass within X feet of an intersection, even if they can't be bothered to switch to double yellow stripes.  But that wouldn't apply to passing someone turning left into (for ex.) a private driveway.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2013, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: Steve on February 16, 2013, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 15, 2013, 10:51:33 PM
It's illegal in NJ to pass on the shoulder, but yet, I've seen NJDOT design paperwork online which notes that, when possible, shoulders should be built wide enough for motorists to pass left-turning vehicles.
I've never found any language supporting it being illegal here, only supporting it being legal like you say. Also, my understanding is that the only time you get in real trouble for it is if you scrape something as you go by.

State Statute 39:4-85, the 3rd paragraph which states one cannot pass off the main traveled portion of the roadway.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Mr. Matté on February 16, 2013, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

It better be; my neighbor (more like her new minivan) was the victim of such an occurrence last summer when she was turning into her driveway. The pickup driver who caused this did get cited for reckless driving, IIRC, and speeding and distractions were involved too.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: corco on February 16, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
I was thinking about this today and saw an interesting variation on US-95 in Boundary County, Idaho

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fsnowplow.jpg&hash=4e75ff1fff3f8ae10a11fd068ed359d67518c96b)
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: DaBigE on February 17, 2013, 02:51:16 AM
Quote from: corco on February 16, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
I was thinking about this today and saw an interesting variation on US-95 in Boundary County, Idaho

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fsnowplow.jpg&hash=4e75ff1fff3f8ae10a11fd068ed359d67518c96b)

Now that *should* just be common sense. :pan:  Then again, unless the plow is pushing the snow further off the road (cleaning the shoulder/making room for future storm accumulations), I've never understood why anyone in their right mind would want to pass an active snowplow. :confused:
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: jp the roadgeek on February 17, 2013, 09:39:24 AM
If this were illegal in CT, cops would be having an orgy handing out tickets.  So many of our roads are substandard without any left turn lanes and lack of left turn arrows that traffic would be backed up for miles.  I've done it thousands of times, even with a cruiser behind me, and never been stopped.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: vdeane on February 17, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
It's generally not a good idea to pass someone turning right onto a side street without caution.  I once had the "pleasure" of nearly being T-boned crossing NY 310 by someone doing that.  I was on the side street waiting to cross and the car on NY 310 had his turn signal on and was slowing down.  By the time he was traveling very slowly, I decided that it was safe to cross.  Unknown to me, there was someone tailgating him doing 70 mph that decided to pass at the last second; I think I avoided impact by only a few inches,

That said, I have been known to pass people making right turns, but in those cases they're going into driveways and are the type of idiot that feels the need to make a complete stop before making their right turn even when they have the ROW.

Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 16, 2013, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?

I think typically it's illegal to pass within X feet of an intersection, even if they can't be bothered to switch to double yellow stripes.  But that wouldn't apply to passing someone turning left into (for ex.) a private driveway.
In NY this is pretty much handled by "thou shalt not change lanes while inside an intersection".
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: empirestate on February 17, 2013, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 17, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
In NY this is pretty much handled by "thou shalt not change lanes while inside an intersection".

I think you'd tend to change lanes well before the intersection if you're planning to pass somebody who would be turning at that intersection. Now if the law prohibits already being across the center line while passing through an intersection, that would indeed cover it.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: realjd on February 17, 2013, 03:36:50 PM
I had no clue this practice was illegal anywhere.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: StogieGuy7 on February 18, 2013, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: rarnold on February 15, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Is it really an inconvenience to wait a few seconds for someone to turn left, as opposed to rear-ending a car on the shoulder.

Yes, it very much is.  And passing to the right on the shoulder is a relatively low-risk proposition in most areas because there's little chance of conflict in such an area.  Not unless the dolt who's turning left decides to swing right first - or to *change his mind*:banghead:.   Where there is conflict, then use your head and wait it out.  But if not, pass away.  Your description (and my experience) has me imagining a fairly straight stretch where there's a shoulder and no intersection imminent. 

By the way, just because YOU have to turn left at a location that is so obscure as to not warrant a left (or middle) turn lane doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to wait for you.    For this reason, I get as close to the middle line as is safe to do - because I am a thoughtful driver and try to leave room for others behind me to pass. 
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Brandon on February 19, 2013, 02:44:48 PM
There are rarely passing blisters in Illinois, and I'm not sure about the legality, but many folks, including cops, do this maneuver anyway, even on unpaved shoulders.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Mdcastle on March 02, 2013, 08:11:34 PM
Illegal in Minnesota, 169.18 subd 4 (4)
Quotethe driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. In no event shall such movement be made by driving onto the shoulder, whether paved or unpaved, or off the pavement or main-traveled portion of the roadway.
Despite fully paved shoulders being standard procedure on trunk highways with any amount of traffic.

"passing blisters" are called "bypass lanes" here.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: deathtopumpkins on March 02, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
I'm not 100% certain, but I assume this is illegal in Massachusetts, based on the large number of "do not pass" and "driving on shoulder prohibited" (or similar language) and "no passing on right" signs posted all over the state, but everyone does it. If you didn't you'd never get anywhere. In fact I've been passed on the right while driving at speed before.

I'd never in my life seen anyone pass on the right before moving up here though. No one in Virginia ever did it.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Alps on March 03, 2013, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on March 02, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
In fact I've been passed on the right while driving at speed before.
If I knew that was you, I'd have waved!
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: on_wisconsin on March 04, 2013, 01:04:06 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 15, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
They do the same thing in Wisconsin, except it is a striped white line.

Here is an classic example of a Wisconsin Turn-Passing lane: http://goo.gl/maps/XHSV6
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: corco on March 04, 2013, 02:08:42 AM
QuoteBy the way, just because YOU have to turn left at a location that is so obscure as to not warrant a left (or middle) turn lane doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to wait for you.    For this reason, I get as close to the middle line as is safe to do - because I am a thoughtful driver and try to leave room for others behind me to pass.

I'm with you on that- if it's safe to do so I even typically get in the oncoming lane to brake and make my left turn, so the cars behind don't have to slow down. That seems to vary from state to state though- pretty  much everybody does it in Idaho and Montana, but pretty much nobody does it in Arizona or Nevada (surprisingly). Utah is hit or miss.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: BiggieJohn on March 04, 2013, 06:59:38 PM
Every day as I turn onto the county road near my house.  Traffic passes in the right turn lane. 
I'm not sure if it's legal or not here in Texas, but it's extremely dangerous. 
The guardrail at the other side of the intersection gets replaced about once a month.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: roadfro on March 09, 2013, 01:59:36 AM
Quote from: corco on March 04, 2013, 02:08:42 AM
I'm with you on that- if it's safe to do so I even typically get in the oncoming lane to brake and make my left turn, so the cars behind don't have to slow down. That seems to vary from state to state though- pretty  much everybody does it in Idaho and Montana, but pretty much nobody does it in Arizona or Nevada (surprisingly). Utah is hit or miss.

Such a maneuver would be illegal in Nevada, given that the approach to a side road along a 2-lane highway is usually striped as a no passing area.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: colinstu on March 09, 2013, 07:46:54 AM
Here's one I don't get. http://goo.gl/maps/oeIpu

They (WisDOT) at least painted a line and cut out a spot in the median for a turn late, but requires drivers to turn left into 1 of those 2 driveways by going through a gore-point/double yellow to do it. There are no signs prohibiting it, and I see people do it all the time. Just seems odd that they wouldn't put a break in the yellow line if they're going to sanction such action with a left turn lane.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on March 09, 2013, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: roadfro on March 09, 2013, 01:59:36 AM
Quote from: corco on March 04, 2013, 02:08:42 AM
I'm with you on that- if it's safe to do so I even typically get in the oncoming lane to brake and make my left turn, so the cars behind don't have to slow down. That seems to vary from state to state though- pretty  much everybody does it in Idaho and Montana, but pretty much nobody does it in Arizona or Nevada (surprisingly). Utah is hit or miss.

Such a maneuver would be illegal in Nevada, given that the approach to a side road along a 2-lane highway is usually striped as a no passing area.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal everywhere, since one is only permitted to drive in the oncoming lane when overtaking a vehicle.  But it's still a polite thing to do, and I do it on occasion.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: roadman65 on March 11, 2013, 01:18:22 PM
I had two people I have known who got told by law enforcement, that if the road is not striped for two lanes, then the road is one lane, despite plenty of room to go around.

The Glenside Avenue jughandle to US 22 in Scotch Plains, NJ is (or was) not striped, although could be two lanes as it is over 24 feet wide, while my friend was pulled  up alongside of a patrol car waiting for the light.  The officer rolled his window down and asked my friend if the road was two lanes.  Even though in theory it was, the officer was making clear that it was not in reality.

In Orlando, my dad got pulled over, but no citation, as he went passed a vehicle turning left on a two lane road (with wide lanes) that was not striped with an exclusive turn lane.  The officer told him, that it is the same as two vehicles trying to travel down one lane on a highway side by side and not to do it again.

Nonetheless,  in basic situations where I encounter a left turning vehicle on a single lane roadway,I still go around as gas is expensive and our country's motto these days seem to be "Go Green" so unless I get confronted by a peace officer about this matter, if it is safe I will  continue to do so.  On roads with shoulders, I am hesitant about as it would be most obvious that it should not be attempted to drive on.  Although, plenty of people pass on the right  I see everyplace  even on grass, I occasionally see these days as well.

Then again, I see people misuse a center turn lane as merging areas and that is not legal, unless it was changed on paper, but then again it would be a might make right situation and then it would still be technically illegal.  Plus, I see people use the part of a center turn lane that is striped for one way left turns with a double line and white single line where they cross the  doulble yellow line to the other side of the road's left turn lane, that definetly is illegal if you cross that yellow line.  Double lines are forbidden to cross in every state and in many other nations.

Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2013, 01:34:14 PM
A half mile from my house is a road that "narrows" from four lanes to two lanes, but the actual pavement width hardly narrows at all (Edgemoor north of Kellogg, for you Wichitans).  Some people treat it as a two-lane street and drive down the middle of the lane, some people treat it as a four-lane street and form two lanes (which gets interesting due to on-street parking), some people waffle between the two as they go.  Nearly everybody forms two lanes at the Douglas stoplight, including police officers.  Not being 100% certain of the legality, I typically treat it as a four-lane section when a cop is not nearby, and as a two-lane section when there is.

If it's supposed to function as a two-lane street, then they should paint edge lines and consider the rest "parking".  If it's supposed to function as a four-lane street, then they shouldn't have put a W4-2 sign where the lane striping ends.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: texaskdog on March 11, 2013, 01:35:17 PM
I do it all the time. Most people make little effort to help other drivers out in general, and they don't build the roads to alleviate problems (no left turn lanes etc)
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2013, 01:34:14 PM
A half mile from my house is a road that "narrows" from four lanes to two lanes, but the actual pavement width hardly narrows at all (Edgemoor north of Kellogg, for you Wichitans). 

Google maps link to what you're talking about?

Don't understand why people are vague to visually show what's going on. I want to see!
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: 1995hoo on March 11, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Similar scenario: A few years ago I was going over to my parents' house for dinner and I wanted to make a left turn at a light with a green arrow, but the traffic was backed up past the end of the turn lane. I could access the turn lane if I drove on the paved shoulder (which, to be clear, was marked with a yellow edge line) for about two car lengths. So I did. What I did not know was that one of the cars waiting ahead of me was an unmarked cop car. He saw me access the turn lane in that fashion, pulled in behind me, and then, after I went on green, he put on his lights and stopped me for illegally driving on the shoulder. I played dumb and he let me off with a warning and a bit of a lecture about how if I'm illegally using the shoulder and someone ahead of me legally pulls into the turn lane without looking, I'm at fault in the accident because I wasn't supposed to be there. (I knew this but pretended to be properly chastised. In the case of that particular left turn there was little chance of a last-minute lane-changer like that because that left turn serves a very limited area, a community with no outlet.)

The frustrating thing in that sort of situation is, as "texaskdog" says, people don't pay attention to the traffic behind them and a lot of them leave WAY too much space between cars when waiting at a red light. If the people ahead of me hadn't left so much space I'd have had no problem accessing the turn lane.


Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2013, 01:18:22 PM
....

Then again, I see people misuse a center turn lane as merging areas and that is not legal ....

When I'm leaving the bank near our neighborhood I usually want to turn left and I routinely have to turn into the center left turn lane and then stop with my right-turn blinker on to wait for a break in the traffic. Cops have seen me do it and I've never been hassled, I think because the cops recognize that if you don't do it that way, you'll never be able to turn because there's almost never a gap in traffic on both sides of the road at the same time. As long as you don't use the center left turn lane to accelerate, they seem not to mind.


Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Google maps link to what you're talking about?

Don't understand why people are vague to visually show what's going on. I want to see!

In the case of my example above, if I posted a Google image I'd be essentially showing what community my parents live in and I just don't like giving that sort of detail. Wouldn't help to post an image anyway because the turn lane has been slightly reconfigured since then–it now has a curb after they re-graded the road there, so I wouldn't be able to drive on the shoulder today.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2013, 01:59:30 PM
Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2013, 01:34:14 PM
A half mile from my house is a road that "narrows" from four lanes to two lanes, but the actual pavement width hardly narrows at all (Edgemoor north of Kellogg, for you Wichitans). 

Google maps link to what you're talking about?

Don't understand why people are vague to visually show what's going on. I want to see!

Here you go!   http://goo.gl/maps/lnsUs (http://goo.gl/maps/lnsUs)

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
In the case of my example above, if I posted a Google image I'd be essentially showing what community my parents live in and I just don't like giving that sort of detail. Wouldn't help to post an image anyway because the turn lane has been slightly reconfigured since then—it now has a curb after they re-graded the road there, so I wouldn't be able to drive on the shoulder today.

Meh, I don't care.  I live at 720 S. Christine.  What are you going to do, send me unwanted magazines?
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 11, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2013, 01:18:22 PM
I had two people I have known who got told by law enforcement, that if the road is not striped for two lanes, then the road is one lane, despite plenty of room to go around.

If it's not stripped for 2 lanes, I would agree it's one lane.  However (and this is generally found in cities) if parking is banned in a parallel parking lane for a specific period of time (during rush hour), the parking lane is generally used as a travel lane.

Now, if you're at an intersection and someone is turning, if there is no shoulder line, then you're not passing on the shoulder and should be able to go around someone without a problem. 


Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2013, 01:46:38 PM

Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Google maps link to what you're talking about?

Don't understand why people are vague to visually show what's going on. I want to see!

In the case of my example above, if I posted a Google image I'd be essentially showing what community my parents live in and I just don't like giving that sort of detail.

If I said I lived within a 1/2 mile of something and uploaded a map, you'd still have to figure out which house of the several hundred houses in that mile radius is mine.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: corco on March 11, 2013, 03:41:22 PM
QuoteMeh, I don't care.  I live at 720 S. Christine.  What are you going to do, send me unwanted magazines?

Nope, I am deploying a brigade of unwanted magazine salesmen though
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: empirestate on March 11, 2013, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2013, 01:18:22 PM
....

Then again, I see people misuse a center turn lane as merging areas and that is not legal ....

When I'm leaving the bank near our neighborhood I usually want to turn left and I routinely have to turn into the center left turn lane and then stop with my right-turn blinker on to wait for a break in the traffic. Cops have seen me do it and I've never been hassled, I think because the cops recognize that if you don't do it that way, you'll never be able to turn because there's almost never a gap in traffic on both sides of the road at the same time. As long as you don't use the center left turn lane to accelerate, they seem not to mind.

Around here, not only is that not illegal, it's absolutely the correct way to use a center left turn lane.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Brandon on March 11, 2013, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: corco on March 11, 2013, 03:41:22 PM
QuoteMeh, I don't care.  I live at 720 S. Christine.  What are you going to do, send me unwanted magazines?

Nope, I am deploying a brigade of unwanted magazine salesmen though

As well as missionaries, Jehovah's Witnesses, those annoying people who try to get you to lock in your natural gas rates, satellite TV salesmen, and Cub Scouts selling popcorn.  :ninja:
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Alps on March 11, 2013, 09:57:14 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2013, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: corco on March 11, 2013, 03:41:22 PM
QuoteMeh, I don't care.  I live at 720 S. Christine.  What are you going to do, send me unwanted magazines?

Nope, I am deploying a brigade of unwanted magazine salesmen though

As well as missionaries, Jehovah's Witnesses, those annoying people who try to get you to lock in your natural gas rates, satellite TV salesmen, and Cub Scouts selling popcorn.  :ninja:
Is it that three-flavor popcorn with the caramel and the cheesy stuff? My address is...
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2013, 02:19:31 PM
Quote from: Steve on March 11, 2013, 09:57:14 PM
Is it that three-flavor popcorn with the caramel and the cheesy stuff? My address is...

Good thing you caught yourself, there.  He's probably unloading leftover tins from four years ago.
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Central Avenue on March 12, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
In the case of my example above, if I posted a Google image I'd be essentially showing what community my parents live in and I just don't like giving that sort of detail.
But you could have just as easily omitted the part about going to your parents' house and none of us would be the wiser! :P
Title: Re: You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you
Post by: Duke87 on March 13, 2013, 09:03:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 09, 2013, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: roadfro on March 09, 2013, 01:59:36 AM
Quote from: corco on March 04, 2013, 02:08:42 AM
I'm with you on that- if it's safe to do so I even typically get in the oncoming lane to brake and make my left turn, so the cars behind don't have to slow down. That seems to vary from state to state though- pretty  much everybody does it in Idaho and Montana, but pretty much nobody does it in Arizona or Nevada (surprisingly). Utah is hit or miss.

Such a maneuver would be illegal in Nevada, given that the approach to a side road along a 2-lane highway is usually striped as a no passing area.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal everywhere, since one is only permitted to drive in the oncoming lane when overtaking a vehicle.  But it's still a polite thing to do, and I do it on occasion.

I have never heard of anyone doing this.

But then, how often am I somewhere where there is both light enough traffic and long enough visibility for it to be practical? I live in the northeast and have only been west of the Mississippi twice in my life (soon to be three times).

It does make sense given the right combination of circumstances (left turn, someone behind you, clearly no one coming the other way or looking to turn out of the side street), though.