The Indian Nation Turnpike in Oklahoma has no free parallel alternative. US 271 (sorta) acts as a free alternative from Hugo to Antlers, a distance of about 15 miles, but the rest of the turnpike has no nearby alternative. And the bridge over the Canadian River is the only crossing of that river for several miles in each direction. Isn't there a rule that says a toll road must have a free alternative? If so, how did the OTA get away with this?
Garden State Parkway has no free freeway-standard alternative.
Although ironically, some people have been using the GSP as an alternative to the NJ Turnpike in north Jersey if they're going from I-280 to central Jersey or South Jersey because it's a bit cheaper!
One name:
New York City
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on May 08, 2009, 07:51:25 AM
Garden State Parkway has no free freeway-standard alternative.
I used that last year and there were no tolls.
QuoteGarden State Parkway has no free freeway-standard alternative.
I used that last year and there were no tolls.
I would bet several hundred thousand dollars that the Garden State Parkway is a toll road. You must be mistaken
^^ Maybe the tolls were waived temporarily because of hurricane evacuations?
Quote^^ Maybe the tolls were waived temporarily because of hurricane evacuations?
I don't think New Jersey has serious enough hurricanes to warrant evacuation
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on May 08, 2009, 07:51:25 AM
Garden State Parkway has no free freeway-standard alternative.
Although ironically, some people have been using the GSP as an alternative to the NJ Turnpike in north Jersey if they're going from I-280 to central Jersey or South Jersey because it's a bit cheaper!
The alternative doesn't have to be a freeway. There are cases where this is - Illinois - go through downtown Chicago, Indiana, I-94 (up to where it goes up into Michigan). New Jersey Turnpike - I-295 to Trenton (from there you're on your own) and New York City has free alternatives in places (although crossing the Hudson is all Toll) But there is definitely a 2-lane or expressway alternative to practically every toll road.
OK, the deal is, you only pay tolls on the Garden State Parkway at certain points where there is a toll barrier...it's called an "open" toll system. So its very possible you can use it without paying a toll, but if you go more then a certain number of miles you're definitely going to pay a toll.
QuoteThe alternative doesn't have to be a freeway. There are cases where this is - Illinois - go through downtown Chicago, Indiana, I-94 (up to where it goes up into Michigan). New Jersey Turnpike - I-295 to Trenton (from there you're on your own) and New York City has free alternatives in places (although crossing the Hudson is all Toll) But there is definitely a 2-lane or expressway alternative to practically every toll road.
From Trenton north, the parallel alternative to the Turnpike is U.S. 1.
The Parkway is actually free in a few spots for reasons other than by design: the two spots where U.S. 9 overlaps, the section down south where the at-grade intersections are, and the section between the Turnpike and Union, which was originally state-owned.
IMHO I think that this topic should have been called Toll Roads with No Free Parallel Alternative. Unless it's an island like most of New York City, there's usually a way around even if it's circuitous.
Now, the Pennsylvania Turnpike mainline and the Northeast Extension have no easily describable parallel alternatives.
US 22 and US 30 can get you the same places as the Turnpike from Pittsburgh to Harrisburg and Philadelphia, respectively but they are not that close to the Turnpike at some points. Now, PA 309 would be a free alternative to the Northeast Extension from the mainline to Allentown, but the routes diverge north of that and nothing really follows I-476 north of that until Wilkes-Barre where I-81 provides an alternative route. In fact, the section north of exit 115 to the northern terminus at exit 131 is very lightly traveled as I-81 hits the same endpoints with much better access to Scranton.
You should check out Madrid. As y'all probably know, it's a radial system with 7 radiating freeways. There are also 4 radiating toll roads right next to it, so through traffic and long-distance commuters can avoid the other commuter traffic.
But the Spaniards are going a step further, and construct toll roads and free freeways within 4 miles of eachother... For instance, between Lleida and Barcelona, you can take the toll free A-2 or the toll road AP-2. I wonder who's gonna use the toll roads then... I drove on both, and the free road was loaded with trucks, and the toll road was nearly empty... A similar thing is going on between Logrono and Zaragoza with an A-68 and AP-68 within 2 - 3 miles parallel to eachother.
Quote from: Chris on May 08, 2009, 02:21:06 PM
For instance, between Lleida and Barcelona, you can take the toll free A-2 or the toll road AP-2. I wonder who's gonna use the toll roads then... I drove on both, and the free road was loaded with trucks, and the toll road was nearly empty... A similar thing is going on between Logrono and Zaragoza with an A-68 and AP-68 within 2 - 3 miles parallel to eachother.
I've heard that the same thing often happens in Mexico where their toll roads are often constructed parallel to an existing free route. In Mexico, the partially happens because the tolls are very high even by U.S. standards let alone Mexico.
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on May 08, 2009, 12:31:39 PM
OK, the deal is, you only pay tolls on the Garden State Parkway at certain points where there is a toll barrier...it's called an "open" toll system. So its very possible you can use it without paying a toll, but if you go more then a certain number of miles you're definitely going to pay a toll.
Ah, that explains it. I only used a short section of it.
VA 895 *sort of* has no free alternative. The only real alternative is I-95 to I-64 EB to I-295 (or I-95 to Broad St EB to VA 5), which takes quite a bit longer. They did a pretty good job of placing that highway in the middle of nowhere so there's no real way to avoid a toll on it (only part of it).
Heh, if you want to see a free alternative extremely close to a toll road, look at the NJTP/I-295. They run up against each other for several miles. Only problem is I haven't been able to find any easy direct connection at 295's northern end--probably because then no one would take the Turnpike.
QuoteHeh, if you want to see a free alternative extremely close to a toll road, look at the NJTP/I-295. They run up against each other for several miles. Only problem is I haven't been able to find any easy direct connection at 295's northern end--probably because then no one would take the Turnpike.
I-195 is the northernmost connection between I-295 and the Turnpike, at least based on the signing on I-295. Each I-295 exit where the crossroad also has an interchange with the Turnpike is signed as "To (TP)." I don't see anyone using N.J. 33 to get from I-295 Exit 64 to Turnpike Exit 8 . . .
The highways are about 6 miles apart at that point, due east-west.
Quote from: mightyaceIMHO I think that this topic should have been called Toll Roads with No Free Parallel Alternative. Unless it's an island like most of New York City, there's usually a way around even if it's circuitous.
Now, the Pennsylvania Turnpike mainline and the Northeast Extension have no easily describable parallel alternatives.
Really depends upon the trip and how many extra miles have to be added to consider a route circuitous or how far away the route must be before it's no longer parallel. I-70 traffic can just use I-79 and I-68. Traffic coming from the Youngstown area can use I-80, I-99 and US 322 to reach Harrisburg. PA 283 and US 30 can be used to reach Philly from Harrisburg.
QuoteOne name:
New York City
Access across the Hudson isn't possible untolled unless you want to drive all the way up to Albany first/ Otherwise, there are ways to get places for free, they're just not the most practical. Many of the bridges connecting Manhattan to Long Island are free, as are most of the bridges connecting Manhattan to the Bronx. So you can get from the mainland to Long Island without paying a toll, but you have to go through Manhattan (which will cost you significant time and gas).
And while you can't get to Staten Island for free
by car, you can do it on foot or on a bicycle via the Staten Island Ferry, which has not charged a fare since 1997.
QuoteReally depends upon the trip and how many extra miles have to be added to consider a route circuitous or how far away the route must be before it's no longer parallel.
Plus you have to factor in the added time from slower speeds, signals, etc. if the only alternate is not a freeway.
Take for example the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168) in Chesapeake, VA. It extends from I-64 almost to the NC state line, where it continues as a 4-lane undivided road. It was finished in the 1990s to provide a bypass to Battlefield Blvd. (VA-168 BUS) which is mostly lined with strip malls, etc. and pretty congested. Despite its $2 toll, I always take it when heading south, because once I took Battlefield Blvd. instead and it easily added an extra 30 minutes on my trip each way.
Quote from: akotchi on May 08, 2009, 04:31:40 PM
I don't see anyone using N.J. 33 to get from I-295 Exit 64 to Turnpike Exit 8 . . .
I found this interesting, as on Easter weekend traffic on the NJTP was paralyzed, whereas it was incredibly easy to hop over to NJ 33/US 130/I-195. There was practically no traffic at all on I-195 and I-295 until past I-76/NJ 42 or so and even then it wasn't so bad.
Orlando only has a single non tolled freeway, doesn't it?
QuoteOrlando only has a single non tolled freeway, doesn't it?
Correct, and it's I-4. Why doesn't Orlando have more free freeways?
^ I recall reading a newspaper article a few years ago that tolls were being considered for I-4 around Orlando; I'm guessing that idea died.
QuoteWhy doesn't Orlando have more free freeways?
I'm guessing it's because it doesn't have more interstates. Florida is fond of paying for roads with tolls when they can, and interstates are really the only case where they can't.
The real question is: why is their electronic collection system not compatible with EZPass?
States and toll authorities can do whatever they want. E-ZPass was an ideal situation for the northeast since all those states have toll roads. Illinois and Indiana joined in I believe because there are lots of truck drivers that follow the corridor of toll roads through there from the northeast. Ohio is doing the same - eventually... in the future... maybe in the next few years... ;-)
Florida, Kansas, Oklahoma, California, Texas, etc are isolated away from the E-ZPass group. They probably don't get a whole lot of E-ZPass users (outside trucks maybe).
NOTE: This is just my opinion and theory - if you have anything that debunks it - I'm all ears.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 08, 2009, 04:23:52 PM
Heh, if you want to see a free alternative extremely close to a toll road, look at the NJTP/I-295. They run up against each other for several miles. Only problem is I haven't been able to find any easy direct connection at 295's northern end--probably because then no one would take the Turnpike.
I thought of that as soon as I saw this topic.
Mont Blanc tunnel on the border of France and Italy. Cars pay 40 dollars one way, trucks 300 dollars. Talking about insane tolls.
Would US 20 and US 9 count as free alternatives to the Thruway, because, while they are toll-free, they are a lot longer and more inefficient of a route, especially 20 in Western New York
Quote from: njroadhorse on May 11, 2009, 05:09:27 PM
Would US 20 and US 9 count as free alternatives to the Thruway, because, while they are toll-free, they are a lot longer and more inefficient of a route, especially 20 in Western New York
I would say so as they are roughly parallel to the Thruway.
Generally, the "free alternatives" will be longer and/or less efficient.
QuoteWould US 20 and US 9 count as free alternatives to the Thruway, because, while they are toll-free, they are a lot longer and more inefficient of a route, especially 20 in Western New York
The Taconic State Parkway would be a better free alternative south of Albany, but that doesn't work if you're a trucker.
I suppose I-86/NY 17 along with I-88 could also be a free alternative to the east/west portion, depending on where you're going.
If you're driving from New York City to Rochester, using 17 and 390 is actually shorter than using the Thruway the whole way.
Although the shortest all-highway route is 80 to 380 to 81 to the Thruway.
Yes, we found out that if you are coming from NJ, the best way to go to Western NY is actually not the Thruway.
FL 528 does not really have a free alternative as the closest one would be following I-4 to I-95 , which would add over 100 miles to a trip.
QuoteNow, the Pennsylvania Turnpike mainline and the Northeast Extension have no easily describable parallel alternatives.
US 22 and US 30 can get you the same places as the Turnpike from Pittsburgh to Harrisburg and Philadelphia, respectively but they are not that close to the Turnpike at some points. Now, PA 309 would be a free alternative to the Northeast Extension from the mainline to Allentown, but the routes diverge north of that and nothing really follows I-476 north of that until Wilkes-Barre where I-81 provides an alternative route.
Actually a combination of Pennsylvania 309, Interstate 78, Pennsylvania 33, Interstate 80, and Interstate 380 does provide a viable alternate route to Scranton. The only hurdle really is the fact that there is no interchange between Pennsylvania 378 and Interstate 78, so one has to head west to make the connection with Pennsylvania 309. It does add time because of all the signals on PA-309, but I've done this routing many times without much problem.
QuoteFL 528 does not really have a free alternative as the closest one would be following I-4 to I-95 , which would add over 100 miles to a trip.
Actually Florida 520 and Florida 50 to Titusville or Florida 520 to Cocoa provide alternatives depending upon where you are headed in Orlando. There are only a few signals east of the Florida Toll 408 interchange on FL 50, so its not that unreasonable, and east of Bithlo, both SR 50 and SR 520 are rural.