I was reading this article http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/2688_-Goat-path--not-embraced-by-all.html that explains the need for improvements to the heavily used PA 23 corridor east of Lancaster. The article may be old, but the problem is still current and most likely still being considered due to the fact when building roads it takes years to make the preparations, so a proposal today as we speak would in most cases be still in planning in 2023.
It seems like a familiar situation to me as US 202 from Doylestown to Mongomeryville had a similar situation up until recently. Although, in US 202's case the freeway was not actually built, but it was intended and later abandoned with its ROW in place. With PA 23 you have the numerous overpasses and underpasses built and an actual grade with drainage built, nonetheless you still have a right of way for it even to be made a boulevard or super two.
According to some users here, I get the tone that a full freeway and what the article actually suggests lean towards a downgrade alignment even if the abandoned 5 mile segment is still kept as original. Many times I heard feedback of the nasty results of completing the US 30 freeway that would link both Lancaster and Coatsville bypasses into one long road despite the heavy use of the existing 3 lane US 30. Though I do hope that whatever solution PennDOT comes up with for PA 23 (unless they choose the other option of widening the existing PA 23) that it will reopen the possibility of addressing the US 30 traffic problem as well.
I think the major difference between the current PA 23 corridor and the US 30 corridor between Coatesville & Lancaster (City) is that commerical development along US 30 has literally exploded in the last 25 to 30 years whereas development along PA 23 hasn't changed all that much.
To get a glimpse of what the US 30 corridor looked like prior to all it development, watch the early scenes in the 1985 movie Witness. It shows how rural US 30 once was; there's even a shot of some US 30 trailblazer shields.
The US 30 traffic situation is so bad, even on the weekends, that I tell everybody I know who's heading out there to avoid the stretch between Gap (PA 772) and Lancaster (City) (PA 462) like the plague. Depending on where in Lancaster County I'm going, I typically use either PA 741 or PA 340 with little or no issues.
The only time the Goat Path Expressway (proposed PA 23) would've helped me is if I'm trying to get to Lancaster City to/from the Shady Maple Restaurant (PA 23 & 897) in Blue Ball.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 05, 2013, 12:22:04 PM
I think the major difference between the current PA 23 corridor and the US 30 corridor between Coatesville & Lancaster (City) is that commerical development along US 30 has literally exploded in the last 25 to 30 years whereas development along PA 23 hasn't changed all that much.
To get a glimpse of what the US 30 corridor looked like prior to all it development, watch the early scenes in the 1985 movie Witness. It shows how rural US 30 once was; there's even a shot of some US 30 trailblazer shields.
The US 30 traffic situation is so bad, even on the weekends, that I tell everybody I know who's heading out there to avoid the stretch between Gap (PA 772) and Lancaster (City) (PA 462) like the plague. Depending on where in Lancaster County I'm going, I typically use either PA 741 or PA 340 with little or no issues.
The only time the Goat Path Expressway (proposed PA 23) would've helped me is if I'm trying to get to Lancaster City to/from the Shady Maple Restaurant (PA 23 & 897) in Blue Ball.
Commercial development changed the westernmost stretch of US 30 dramatically in the 1990s from the end of the PA 283 freeway to PA 896. Even when it was more rural, the portion of US 30 between Lancaster and Coatesville was always a traffic headache. I still remember us slugging through it during family trips in the 1980s. Problem for US 30 is that its a popular truck route from PA 283 to PA 41 toward northern Delaware.
Alanland.
Quote from: Alex on March 05, 2013, 01:29:21 PMCommercial development changed the westernmost stretch of US 30 dramatically in the 1990s from the end of the PA 283 freeway to PA 896. Even when it was more rural, the portion of US 30 between Lancaster and Coatesville was always a traffic headache. I still remember us slugging through it during family trips in the 1980s. Problem for US 30 is that its a popular truck route from PA 283 to PA 41 toward northern Delaware.
I don't doubt it. BTW, US 30 between PA 283 & PA 462 is actually a freeway (with collector distributor roads between PA 501 & US 222 North that was built several years ago), so that helps things out in the immediate area. The problem area is the arterial US 30 between PA 462 in Lancaster & Business US 30 in Coatesville.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 05, 2013, 04:29:12 PM
I don't doubt it. BTW, US 30 between PA 283 & PA 462 is actually a freeway (with collector distributor roads between PA 501 & US 222 North that was built several years ago), so that helps things out in the immediate area. The problem area is the arterial US 30 between PA 462 in Lancaster & Business US 30 in Coatesville.
Oh duh, I meant the end of the freeway portion of US 30 (which I erroneously referred to as PA 283) at PA 462 as you wrote. What really helped out that section was the major reconstruction of it, which was done by what, 2001? I remember before that work it was only four lanes with a metal guard rail separating the carriageways. PA-283 itself was also overhauled in the mid-1990s, which greatly improved things
Quote from: roadman65 on March 05, 2013, 11:50:31 AM
The article may be old
So, yeah, that kinda sorta means the Goat Path extension is dead. So, yeah.
Here is a good question, is the ROW still state owned on the entire length, or do the farmers own it, if the farmers use it, do they pay property tax on it?
Still owned by the state per http://gis.co.lancaster.pa.us/gismo/
Quote from: NE2 on March 05, 2013, 02:45:38 PM
Alanland.
But is Alanland in PA, or PA in Alanland? Something tells me it's both and neither.
Quote from: deanej on March 06, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
I was pretty amazed that the thread had gone this long with only one reference to Alanland (thank you, NE2). I was actually rooting for the thread to steer clear of it, yet I've kept checking it every so often. You know, just to see. ;-)
Is Alanland the Godwin's law of AARoads?
I think so.
I personally do not think the Goat Path is dead. I think that the idea is still being tossed around behind the walls of PennDOT and Lancaster County as well. It may be shelved for now, but the idea will be brought up again and again, and one day (maybe in our grandchildren's lifetime) it may get built as an expressway or super two at least.
True it will not help the US 30 situation out at all, however its in the same category as it, as both roads, though for different reasons, due need relief. I have not driven PA 23, but only US 30, but the tone of the old article was that there are problems of a different nature that brought up the reconsideration of the killed project.
If it was brought up once it will be brought up again.
How far over does 23 get bad traffic? Just to 322? Further along?