Okay. There is an issue about parity and direction that's been discussed in Worst of Road Signs, but I want to go deeper into this subject. I want to bring up several Montana state routes that just downright stupid.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F13%2FMT-16.svg%2F70px-MT-16.svg.png&hash=30146e4d58f137d983632343d466702e57505f88) Montana route 16
This one is a connection between Sasketchewan Route 6 in Regway, SASK, CAN and I-94 Business in West Glendive. The problem? Just like what NE2 mentioned about OH 37: direction does not match with parity. Here is why that is. The 6 in Montana route 16 is an even digit. Yet, the general direction MT 16 travels is...what? NORTH & SOUTH.
Let me give you another gem: (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fef%2FMT-24.svg%2F70px-MT-24.svg.png&hash=221e49d8eac60aa0e7e6ccd2c51f97b480a4f2eb)
A Port of Ophiem-Brockway connector. It starts at Port of Ophiem then it meets up with MT 200 near Brockway up in the Hi-Line region. Now this is even a bigger problem because there are two even digits. Again, what's 24's general direction? North-South.
Now, let's try this one: (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F72%2FMT-25.svg%2F70px-MT-25.svg.png&hash=e5e9a7629f7273329db7d1581f647a85f7660762)
It's nearly a six mile stretch between Wolf Point (US 2) and MT 13 in Bridge Park. Now, you'd conventionally think, "Even digits: East-West, Odd digits: North-South". Does MT 25 follow this? No. What happened here? The 5 is odd. But 25's general direction is...EAST-WEST.
Just like what corco thought. This kind of system is utter crap. This state highway system in Montana is a disaster! MDT really needs to change this up because this really confuses the hell out of me when I see that this Montana highway is odd but goes east-west and that Montana highway is even but goes north-south. This is Perkins Union-type routing, only this time, it's for real. And on Montana's state roads, too!
Just a clear example of some states not matching direction to parity.
The only ones that make real sense to me is MT 200 which is generally an east-west route. You can argue that MT 2 is like that because it's the old US 10 S alignment, and even MT 1 somewhat follows the conventional notion of "Even digits: east-west, Odd digits: north-south", even though it turns towards the east near the end when it terminates in Drummond.
In all, don't even ask me how this system works or how to fix it because it is just a pile of steaming, stinking turdbuckets! And I don't use that term loosely.
Yep, even Montana messes up on some of their highways not matching direction to parity. And Montana is not innocent of this. Lots of other states have done this as well. No wonder our state highway numbering system is a total wreckfest.
what the fuck
Quote from: NE2 on March 14, 2013, 01:38:40 PM
what the fuck
What? The hell do you mean what the fuck?! What the fuck WHAT?!
My quibble with Montana is that there's vague, at best, indication in internal maintenance logs about which routes run over which roads and signage sometimes doesn't tell much of a story either.
Oddness/evenness of numbers? Eh, it's a state by state decision. Oklahoma actually does it opposite- odds are east-west and evens are north-south. Lots of states don't care at all- look at Idaho or North Dakota for nearby examples.
Quote from: corco on March 14, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
My quibble with Montana is that there's vague, at best, indication in internal maintenance logs about which routes run over which roads and signage sometimes doesn't tell much of a story either.
Oddness/evenness of numbers? Eh, it's a state by state decision. Oklahoma actually does it opposite- odds are east-west and evens are north-south. Lots of states don't care at all- look at Idaho or North Dakota for nearby examples.
Yep. It goes back to what you mentioned in Random highway wishes and wants. It's such a mess. I mean, some of them make sense, but there are others that are confusing.
bizarre state numbering schemes... have you ever seen Massachusetts? part of it is the old New England Highway system grid; part of it is US routes (and their state-route alternates), and the last part is ... Jackson Pollock.
NY went from a grid to clustering to whatever number the engineer likes. This is how we have NY 747 servicing an airport.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on March 14, 2013, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: corco on March 14, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
My quibble with Montana is that there's vague, at best, indication in internal maintenance logs about which routes run over which roads and signage sometimes doesn't tell much of a story either.
Oddness/evenness of numbers? Eh, it's a state by state decision. Oklahoma actually does it opposite- odds are east-west and evens are north-south. Lots of states don't care at all- look at Idaho or North Dakota for nearby examples.
Yep. It goes back to what you mentioned in Random highway wishes and wants. It's such a mess. I mean, some of them make sense, but there are others that are confusing.
Confusing? The only reason it's confusing to you is because you thought every state numbered its highways like the national systems. Do you get confused by county roads that aren't numbered like that? City streets?
It's not confusing. You were just mistaken.
This is what NE2 meant by "what the fuck". Other translations available upon request. :rolleyes:
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2013, 05:40:21 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on March 14, 2013, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: corco on March 14, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
My quibble with Montana is that there's vague, at best, indication in internal maintenance logs about which routes run over which roads and signage sometimes doesn't tell much of a story either.
Oddness/evenness of numbers? Eh, it's a state by state decision. Oklahoma actually does it opposite- odds are east-west and evens are north-south. Lots of states don't care at all- look at Idaho or North Dakota for nearby examples.
Yep. It goes back to what you mentioned in Random highway wishes and wants. It's such a mess. I mean, some of them make sense, but there are others that are confusing.
Confusing? The only reason it's confusing to you is because you thought every state numbered its highways like the national systems. Do you get confused by county roads that aren't numbered like that? City streets?
It's not confusing. You were just mistaken.
This is what NE2 meant by "what the fuck". Other translations available upon request. :rolleyes:
Perhaps so. Might have something to do with lack of better knowledge of each numbering system. I tend to incline on the conventional notions of how the national systems are in relation to state and county systems, but, I guess each state and county numbering system is dictated differently. I mean, either way, I've never noticed it until now.
I appreciate your very polite response to my very snarky response. Thank you for being the better man.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2013, 08:44:29 PM
I appreciate your very polite response to my very snarky response. Thank you for being the better man.
Eww, did you let your wife write this or something? (She must be a saint, a SAINT. ;))
:-D That right there, Steve oughta be LOLZ of the Week!
It doesn't seem to matter here in Louisiana, state routes number don't seem to relate to direction. I've seen state highways labeled north-south and east-west on the same route...LADODT must directionally challenged!.. :)
If there is any qualm I have with Montana (having only lived there from 2000-2003, however) it's the seemingly haphazard designation of primary routes that aren't all that primary, and secondary routes that aren't all that secondary. Montana 40 (from Whitefish to Columbia Falls) and Montana 82 (from Somers to Bigfork) come to mind as roads that I am not sure I would call "primary" routes.
Then again, Oregon (my home except for the above three years) seems to have the same issue, with Oregon 217 (a freeway) and U.S. 95 (a major interstate trucking route) both designated as secondary highways. I still think Washington does it best...