Just a few quick shots since I was in the area.
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Signs from US-1&9 South (Tonnelle Ave.) approaching the Tonnelle Circle area. This is likely the best signing that this intersection has had in decades.
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View from NJ-7 East's END. Truck 1&9 South crosses here. Once upon a time this used to be the Charlotte Circle.
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View from NJ-7's ramp climbing the new viaduct towards the Tonnelle Circle. The ramp on the left goes to a new flyover (seen in first photo above) directly to 1&9 North/Tonnelle Ave. and the right goes to the old Tonnelle Circle.
Looks like NJDOT is STILL specifying lighting for signs.
I think its odd to use Secaucus as a control city for US 1 & 9 instead of Ridgefield or even North Bergen. US 1 & 9 do not go there even.
Tonnelle Avenue is misspelled, and there's no route shield to tell people that it's US 1/US 9 north. Someone's bound to get lost.
Er... Tonnele is apparently an acceptable spelling, and that's *southbound* Tonnellle.
There was an article in the paper years ago about the proper spelling.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/18/nyregion/road-and-rail-lipstick-on-a-pig.html?src=pm
Both ways are "correct".
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2013, 09:25:19 PM
I think its odd to use Secaucus as a control city for US 1 & 9 instead of Ridgefield or even North Bergen. US 1 & 9 do not go there even.
There is a reason to include Secaucus for US-1 & 9 North because it connects to RT-3 before the RT-495 interchange therefore Lincoln Tunnel is in the control city list because US-1 & ( North does indeed connect to RT-495 east in North Bergen
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 31, 2013, 09:50:56 PM
There was an article in the paper years ago about the proper spelling.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/18/nyregion/road-and-rail-lipstick-on-a-pig.html?src=pm
Both ways are "correct".
I've gone back and forth on whether the avenue is Tonnele and the circle is Tonnelle or vice versa. There's far too much confusion over the issue. NJDOT's straight line diagrams aren't even consistent.
:bigass:
QuoteNamed apparently for landowner John Tonnele, the confusion reached to the newspaper obituaries. The Daily Telegraph mourned John Tonnelle, while the Daily Sentinel and Advertiser announced the passing of John Tonnele.
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/full_story/2369179/article-Where-the-streets-have-weird-names-Or--how-fast-do-you-go-on-Vroom-
Quote from: Petite Disorganized NIMBY of Nimbya on April 01, 2013, 12:12:50 AM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 31, 2013, 09:50:56 PM
There was an article in the paper years ago about the proper spelling.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/18/nyregion/road-and-rail-lipstick-on-a-pig.html?src=pm
Both ways are "correct".
I've gone back and forth on whether the avenue is Tonnele and the circle is Tonnelle or vice versa. There's far too much confusion over the issue. NJDOT's straight line diagrams aren't even consistent.
I am still not sure, and I have practically lived this corridor since we first started the design back in 1997. I have tended to see the single-l spelling south of the circle (City jurisdiction), with the double-l spelling north of the circle (State jurisdiction). I am sure there are exceptions . . .
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 30, 2013, 03:57:15 PM
Just a few quick shots since I was in the area.
(Removed images.)
Signs from US-1&9 South (Tonnelle Ave.) approaching the Tonnelle Circle area. This is likely the best signing that this intersection has had in decades.
Thank you . . . I had a hand in the design of the guide signing for this area. It was very challenging to provide all of the route information needed in a highly limited space and do so clearly.
Quote from: akotchi on April 01, 2013, 12:30:14 AM
Thank you . . . I had a hand in the design of the guide signing for this area. It was very challenging to provide all of the route information needed in a highly limited space and do so clearly.
Well done. I should have guessed it was done by a fellow enthusiast, since it all looks good and easy to follow.
Quote from: Petite Disorganized NIMBY of Nimbya on April 01, 2013, 12:12:50 AM
I've gone back and forth on whether the avenue is Tonnele and the circle is Tonnelle or vice versa. There's far too much confusion over the issue. NJDOT's straight line diagrams aren't even consistent.
Jersey City officially calls the road "Tonnele Ave." on all municipal street signs, while NJDOT uses "Tonnelle Ave." on their signs on the US-1&9 portion. North Bergen officially calls the road "Tonnelle Ave."
Paper maps new and old are all over the place. Navteq seems to get it right with Tonnele in Jersey City and Tonnelle in North Bergen. Both Google and Open Street Map use Tonnelle for the whole road.
Quote from: akotchi on April 01, 2013, 12:30:14 AM
Thank you . . . I had a hand in the design of the guide signing for this area. It was very challenging to provide all of the route information needed in a highly limited space and do so clearly.
For years, this area had nothing but ground mounted signs that usually went missing. In 2003ish, NJDOT put up overheads in the area that curiously enough used an ampersand in the 1&9 shields (you can still see them on streetview or here (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/us_1-9t/s7j.jpg)) instead of what I presume is NJDOT's official practice of "1-9" in a 3dus shield. NJDOT seems to clearly mark NJ-139 on all new signs as well.
Also, no "END" or "BEGIN" signs for NJ-7? Maybe those will come with the new Wittpenn Bridge? I did spot a Milepost 0 though.
Personally, I like 1&9 better than 1-9...which could be confused with routes 1 thru 9, versus 1 and 9.
1-9 looks like it's a 3-digit number and the middle digit is missing. Should be two shields.
The original design I oversaw had End assemblies, but they were removed before the final plans went out because there was not room for them with the messages that had to be there. The Wittpenn project will move the end of Route 7, so hopefully there will be a place for one there.
There were actually two projects in this area. The first was touted as an operational improvement project that replaced the Charlotte Circle with two signalized intersections and provided a bypass in the Tonnele Circle for 1&9 South traffic from Tonnele Ave. to the Skyway. Provided some relief until the larger project came along. The 2003 overheads, which included the ampersands, were part of that project. It was one of the first times that both routes were incorporated into the same shield, definitely for space. I do not recall the specific direction to change from ampersands to hyphens, but it might have been early in the design of the current pattern. It has been adopted consistently elsewhere. My personal opinion is that the ampersand looks too much like a digit, such as a 6. You can now easily tell the older installations by where separate shields are mounted.
It is interesting to note that the current pattern is the result of what amounts to nothing more than a bridge replacement project . . . ;-)
Quote from: kkt on April 01, 2013, 09:50:47 AM
1-9 looks like it's a 3-digit number and the middle digit is missing. Should be two shields.
Since the Feds are taking away the NJ Turnpike style signs, the dual-route 1&9 signs are about the only uniqueness NJ has left! (Yes, that's a slight exaggeration, but not too far off from the truth!)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 01, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
Quote from: kkt on April 01, 2013, 09:50:47 AM
1-9 looks like it's a 3-digit number and the middle digit is missing. Should be two shields.
Since the Feds are taking away the NJ Turnpike style signs, the dual-route 1&9 signs are about the only uniqueness NJ has left! (Yes, that's a slight exaggeration, but not too far off from the truth!)
MD 2-4 say that "unique" is too strong a word ;)
Quote from: Petite Disorganized NIMBY of Nimbya on April 01, 2013, 08:38:03 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 01, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
Quote from: kkt on April 01, 2013, 09:50:47 AM
1-9 looks like it's a 3-digit number and the middle digit is missing. Should be two shields.
Since the Feds are taking away the NJ Turnpike style signs, the dual-route 1&9 signs are about the only uniqueness NJ has left! (Yes, that's a slight exaggeration, but not too far off from the truth!)
MD 2-4 say that "unique" is too strong a word ;)
Though some (not all) of those have been replaced by Md. 2/Md. 4 assemblies.
NJ's probably the only state to consistently sign how to make a U-turn (sign on the right side of the first photo).
Quote from: NE2 on April 01, 2013, 09:38:56 PM
NJ's probably the only state to consistently sign how to make a U-turn (sign on the right side of the first photo).
Better than Massachusetts and their way of signing u turns with "Reverse Direction" or I once saw one place (I cannot remember where) that used "TO Opposite Direction Traffic."
Quote from: roadman65 on April 09, 2013, 12:12:15 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 01, 2013, 09:38:56 PM
NJ's probably the only state to consistently sign how to make a U-turn (sign on the right side of the first photo).
Better than Massachusetts and their way of signing u turns with "Reverse Direction" or I once saw one place (I cannot remember where) that used "TO Opposite Direction Traffic."
Typical MA signs say: "to reverse direction, use 2nd right", etc.
I really do like New Jersey's design standards. The detail in the concrete guardrail is very faithful to the 1930s NJ style, and the black metal all around is true to the adjacent Skyway.
So is the entrance gore where the guy sits in the lawn chair still there?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:19:41 PM
So is the entrance gore where the guy sits in the lawn chair still there?
Perhaps the shirtless bums selling bottled water in the summer were part of the plans and have a designated safety podium....
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:19:41 PM
I really do like New Jersey's design standards. The detail in the concrete guardrail is very faithful to the 1930s NJ style, and the black metal all around is true to the adjacent Skyway.
So is the entrance gore where the guy sits in the lawn chair still there?
I'm pretty sure its gone, there is an acceleration lane there now so no more captive audience. I haven't seen that guy for years before that either.
NJDOT is pretty good about replicating the "Morris Goodkind" style bridges whenever they replace them. A nice touch of Deco/Moderne style the original 20s and 30s bridges featured.