The thread on historical maps got me looking at some old state maps with incomplete Interstates, and I was thinking about the experience of driving in those days.
Did state highway departments post control cities that the Interstate didn't yet reach? I'm imagining, for example, being in Des Moines in the mid '60s and seeing guides for I-80 West to Omaha and I-35 South to Kansas City–neither of which you could drive to continuously at that point. Did they ever cover the control cities or use temporary control points until the road was completed? I've read some comments suggesting that this is how Netcong, NJ became a control city on I-80–having been a temporary terminus at one point.
And to what extent did the states attempt to make a usable route out of the disjointed pieces? If incomplete I-80 dumped you out at Atlantic, Iowa, would signs direct you on "Temporary I-80" via US 6? This would be straightforward enough on Interstates that replaced parallel US highways but much trickier in situations like I-80 in Pennsylvania, where you'd have to take miles of detours on state routes to connect to the next open section. Coupled with the rapid pace of construction during the '60s and '70s, the comparatively slow flow of information, and paper maps going out of date quickly, cross-country travel seems to have been a hit-or-miss affair.
Anyone have any recollections (or better yet, photos) they could share?
Here's a picture from 1970s Sevier County, UT, near the current US-89/I-70 junction:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fut%2Fus_89%2Fs4.jpg&hash=b1e62ce4df97c05a571d9ef54183ab897b10a90b)
Before 1977, when legislative numbers were matched up with in-the-field route numbers, Utah legislatively used SRs 1-5 for the Interstates, in statewide importance (my guess); I-15 was SR-1, I-80 was SR-2, I-84 was SR-3, I-70 was SR-4, and I-215 was SR-5. Hence, TEMP I-70 was numbered SR-4.
While this is the only picture I can dig up showing a Utah SR shield, I would assume that there were some UT-1, UT-2, etc. shields along elsewhere along incomplete portions of Interstates. If not them, then I'd assume that you'd just have "(Direction) TEMP I-##" shields.
If you want a current example involving the control cities, consider that the new Interstate 69 in Southern Indiana has no northbound control city, since only half of the highway is built. Signage plans have indicated that Indianapolis will be added later on, but probably not until the highway is complete up to at least Bloomington if not Indy, time will tell. On the other hand, Evansville is the southbound control city even though Interstate 69 does not yet reach the city, it continues south of Interstate 64 as Interstate 164, but will be Interstate 69 in the future. No TEMP shields however and I'm unsure if there were ever any in Indiana.
Why would they cover the control city if that was the best way to get there?
Quote from: Rover_0 on April 04, 2013, 04:54:12 PM
While this is the only picture I can dig up showing a Utah SR shield, I would assume that there were some UT-1, UT-2, etc. shields along elsewhere along incomplete portions of Interstates. If not them, then I'd assume that you'd just have "(Direction) TEMP I-##" shields.
SR-4 was the only one that wasn't also a U.S. Route, so I doubt the others were signed.
Quote from: NE2 on April 04, 2013, 05:19:30 PM
Why would they cover the control city if that was the best way to get there?
If it was the best route, then you're right, it wouldn't make sense to cover it. Especially in cases where a US route and its replacement Interstate were in close proximity and motorists could hop on and off as sections opened.
But I'm sure there are cases where the incomplete Interstate wasn't the best route to the final destination and motorists bound for the next city would have been better off taking a different US or state route until the Interstate was completed.
Like, for example, I-81 in Carlisle before the Interstate was opened to Harrisburg–you would have been much better off taking either US 11 or I-76, so guides indicating "I-81 North - Harrisburg" would have been misleading for some years until the new road opened.
I remember before I-88 in New York State was completed from Oneonta to its current eastern terminus did use Oneonta as control city on I-88 eastbound.
In New Jersey Boonton was used for I-287 North of Morristown instead of Mahwah, until the final section opened to the NYS Thruway back in the 90's. I believe that it still is on NJ 10, or at least it was in 09 when I captured it on film that particular year as NJDOT did not yet update it.
It may be the reason why Easton, PA is used on I-78 Westbound in some parts of New Jersey instead of Allentown, PA as I-78 used to end at current Exit 3 at Still Valley, NJ until 1990.
In MA, there were some 70s-era BGS' for I-95 South in Topsfield & Danvers that listed Lynn along with Boston as its control cities giving hint the highway would eventually pass through Lynn. Needless to say, this didn't happen but the old BGS' remained as is until they were all replaced sometime during the 1990s.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 05, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
In MA, there were some 70s-era BGS' for I-95 South in Topsfield & Danvers that listed Lynn along with Boston as its control cities giving hint the highway would eventually pass through Lynn. Needless to say, this didn't happen but the old BGS' remained as is until they were all replaced sometime during the 1990s.
similar to how out here, I-710 has a control city of Pasadena,
even on replacement signs from the 2000s.
I remember the Lynn-Boston signs, as well as the fact that one of the local radio stations (101.7, WFNX?) always called its geographical location "Lynn/Boston". other than that - having grown up at the other end of missing I-95 (Canton) - I barely knew where Lynn was.
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 04, 2013, 05:03:49 PM
If you want a current example involving the control cities, consider that the new Interstate 69 in Southern Indiana has no northbound control city, since only half of the highway is built. Signage plans have indicated that Indianapolis will be added later on, but probably not until the highway is complete up to at least Bloomington if not Indy, time will tell. On the other hand, Evansville is the southbound control city even though Interstate 69 does not yet reach the city, it continues south of Interstate 64 as Interstate 164, but will be Interstate 69 in the future. No TEMP shields however and I'm unsure if there were ever any in Indiana.
I would guess that Indianapolis will be signed with the completion to Bloomington. After there, it's a straight run up IN 37.
Michigan used to use "TEMP" or "TEMPORARY" on I-69 before it was completed in the Lansing area in 1992. The reassurance signs were as such:
NORTH
TEMP
{69}
It was also listed as temporary on the big green signs, but I don't recall the order.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 10:29:09 AMI remember the Lynn-Boston signs, as well as the fact that one of the local radio stations (101.7, WFNX?) always called its geographical location "Lynn/Boston". other than that - having grown up at the other end of missing I-95 (Canton) - I barely knew where Lynn was.
The old
95 SOUTH Lynn Boston BGS' were at the following locations:
1. Topsfield/Danvers line - Two along US 1 South at I-95's Exit 50 (1971(?) vintage) at the Left-lane exit for I-95 South; the BGS' were erected years before the ramp actually opened (the I-95 shields, the
SOUTH lettering and arrows were absent from the BGS' until the exit ramp opened in the mid-70s).
2. Danvers - one along US 1 South between the MA 114 and Lowell St. interchanges (1971(?) vintage). This BGS only had all the lettering & downward arrow on it except the I-95 shield (message essentially read:
SOUTH Lynn Boston). This BGS gave hint to the original movement plans for the current Exit 46 off I-95; off US 1 South to I-95 South/off I-95 North for US 1 North, the exact opposite of the current ramp movements. That BGS along w/a
1 SOUTH Saugus pull-through BGS & related gantry was replaced in the early 80s with cantilever gantry and BGS listing the advance notice of the I-95/MA 128 interchange.
3. Topsfield/Danvers line - Pull-Through BGS along I-95 South at Exit 50 (mid-70s vintage). Ironically, this one was fabricated & erected after it was known that I-95 inside of 128 was not going to happen. This BGS had a more reflective shield & lettering than the earlier BGS'.
There were TO I-95 assemblies posted along the Baltimore-Washington Parkway between those two cities, since the "between the Beltways" section of I-95 did not open until several years after 1970.
There were also TO I-95 assemblies posted along I-895 through Baltimore before the Fort McHenry Tunnel was completed in 1985.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 05, 2013, 12:09:31 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 10:29:09 AMI remember the Lynn-Boston signs, as well as the fact that one of the local radio stations (101.7, WFNX?) always called its geographical location "Lynn/Boston". other than that - having grown up at the other end of missing I-95 (Canton) - I barely knew where Lynn was.
The old 95 SOUTH Lynn Boston BGS' were at the following locations:
1. Topsfield/Danvers line - Two along US 1 South at I-95's Exit 50 (1971(?) vintage) at the Left-lane exit for I-95 South; the BGS' were erected years before the ramp actually opened (the I-95 shields, the SOUTH lettering and arrows were absent from the BGS' until the exit ramp opened in the mid-70s).
2. Danvers - one along US 1 South between the MA 114 and Lowell St. interchanges (1971(?) vintage). This BGS only had all the lettering & downward arrow on it except the I-95 shield (message essentially read: SOUTH Lynn Boston). This BGS gave hint to the original movement plans for the current Exit 46 off I-95; off US 1 South to I-95 South/off I-95 North for US 1 North, the exact opposite of the current ramp movements. That BGS along w/a 1 SOUTH Saugus pull-through BGS & related gantry was replaced in the early 80s with cantilever gantry and BGS listing the advance notice of the I-95/MA 128 interchange.
3. Topsfield/Danvers line - Pull-Through BGS along I-95 South at Exit 50 (mid-70s vintage). Ironically, this one was fabricated & erected after it was known that I-95 inside of 128 was not going to happen. This BGS had a more reflective shield & lettering than the earlier BGS'.
got any photos of these? the one I remember was on mainline 95, so I believe it was #3. was around well into the 90s.
(also, in completely unrelated news, I'd love to see a photo of the lingering I-86 shield at exit 2 of I-84 in Sturbridge - around as of 1987 or 1988, and the erroneous green-and-white Interstate Massachusetts 495 shield pair at the south end of the Lowell Connector posted briefly sometime in the early 90s.)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 12:36:38 PMgot any photos of these? the one I remember was on mainline 95, so I believe it was #3. was around well into the 90s.
(also, in completely unrelated news, I'd love to see a photo of the lingering I-86 shield at exit 2 of I-84 in Sturbridge - around as of 1987 or 1988, and the erroneous green-and-white Interstate Massachusetts 495 shield pair at the south end of the Lowell Connector posted briefly sometime in the early 90s.)
Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of the above. The I-95 South/Lynn BGS' at Exit 50 (1 & 3 in my previous post) were all replaced with the current BGS' in the 90s; although the lead-in BGS assembly along US 1 South to the I-95 South on-ramp appears to have been recently replaced w/a newer diagrametric BGS (the non-button-copy I-95 shield being the dead give-away).
The BGS mentioned in #2 was a similar size to the original lead-in BGS in #1.
As far as the old I-86 shield at I-84's Exit 2; I believe that one has been long gone for a while.
The green Business Spur 495 shield in Lowell has been gone for years as well.
If you were planning on heading to the upcoming Portsmouth, NH meet this late-May; I could rough-sketch you up what the old I-95/Lynn-Boston BGS' resembled.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 05, 2013, 01:27:56 PM
As far as the old I-86 shield at I-84's Exit 2; I believe that one has been long gone for a while.
yep. although there are some arrows there, as of February 2010, which may date to the 60s. an 84 shield with high intensity sheeting looks to be late 80s vintage, and seems to be a hasty replacement for an 86.
QuoteThe green Business Spur 495 shield in Lowell has been gone for years as well.
I photographed that shield on the side street in 2006, and heard it was around as late as 2008. here is a 2007 photo.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19614954i1.jpg)
what I was referring to was a construction project at the
south end of the connector, at I-495, which was a gantry featuring a pair of shields. the entire assembly was green and white: NORTH and SOUTH banners, a pair of shields, and the arrows referring to the individual ramps. It was located at the gore point where the first ramp (495 south) split. standard '70 spec state named 30x25 shields, except the green and white business design with the INTERSTATE legend.
the gantry topology was identical to this, except all green-white (and with NORTH and SOUTH switched).
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19794951i1.jpg)
I think they were only up for a few months. I remember them existing in a field of orange cones, orange signs, orange trucks, etc.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 01:37:24 PMQuoteThe green Business Spur 495 shield in Lowell has been gone for years as well.
I photographed that shield on the side street in 2006, and heard it was around as late as 2008. here is a 2007 photo.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19614954i1.jpg)
what I was referring to was a construction project at the south end of the connector, at I-495, which was a gantry featuring a pair of shields. the entire assembly was green and white: NORTH and SOUTH banners, a pair of shields, and the arrows referring to the individual ramps. It was located at the gore point where the first ramp (495 south) split. standard '70 spec state named 30x25 shields, except the green and white business design with the INTERSTATE legend.
the gantry topology was identical to this, except all green-white (and with NORTH and SOUTH switched).
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19794951i1.jpg)
I think they were only up for a few months. I remember them existing in a field of orange cones, orange signs, orange trucks, etc.
I will have to double-check the next time I'm up that way (time permitting) but I believe (coming from someone else on this site) that the green Bus Spur 495 shield has since been gone for a few years (obviously after 2007-2008).
As far as the other green 495 signs you're referring to; if they were erected as a temporary signage for a construction project, chances are they've since been taken down. A Google Earth Street View run down the southbound Lowell Connector to the 495 ramps show no such signage; just standard 90s-vintage MassHighway BGS' mounted on overhead post gantries.
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 04, 2013, 05:03:49 PM
If you want a current example involving the control cities, consider that the new Interstate 69 in Southern Indiana has no northbound control city, since only half of the highway is built. Signage plans have indicated that Indianapolis will be added later on, but probably not until the highway is complete up to at least Bloomington if not Indy, time will tell. On the other hand, Evansville is the southbound control city even though Interstate 69 does not yet reach the city, it continues south of Interstate 64 as Interstate 164, but will be Interstate 69 in the future. No TEMP shields however and I'm unsure if there were ever any in Indiana.
Back in the 1970s Indiana used "TO" I-94 on SR 39 as did Michigan on M-239. Probably the same on the ITR. Michigan used at least some "TO" I-196 signs between Jenison and Holland on former M-21 (now M-121).
I drove from Merrillville to Lafayette before I-65 was completed (in driver ed). I don't remember 100%, but I think US 231 was also marked as "TO" I-65.
Quote from: Brandon on April 05, 2013, 11:52:06 AM
Michigan used to use "TEMP" or "TEMPORARY" on I-69 before it was completed in the Lansing area in 1992. The reassurance signs were as such:
NORTH
TEMP
{69}
It was also listed as temporary on the big green signs, but I don't recall the order.
I imagine the BGS showed TEMP the same way as a regular Interstate, but with TEMP in white letters above the number.
On I-76 approaching I-270 in Denver there's still (or was in 2010) a relic "Future 270" shield
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Ffuture270.jpg&hash=f5d52ac093af4f0820254033cb836c3d2395536f)
Quote from: corco on April 07, 2013, 03:46:25 PM
On I-76 approaching I-270 in Denver there's still (or was in 2010) a relic "Future 270" shield
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Ffuture270.jpg&hash=f5d52ac093af4f0820254033cb836c3d2395536f)
I didn't even know they were to extend I-270 further west, unless that is a sign error. The only way I could see them extending I-270 west along the US-36/Boulder Turnpike alignment is if they ever complete 470 along the Northwest side and sign it I-470 at least between I-70 and US-36.
I think that I-270 only extends from I-76 to I-25. After that I-270 ends and it is just US-36 to Boulder.
QuoteI didn't even know they were to extend I-270 further west, unless that is a sign error. The only way I could see them extending I-270 west along the US-36/Boulder Turnpike alignment is if they ever complete 470 along the Northwest side and sign it I-470 at least between I-70 and US-36.
The sign's on I-76 guys, not I-25.
The sign in question appears to be gone now but is located on this (http://goo.gl/maps/YZo2R) approach- I-76 westbound approaching I-270- that was the second phase of I-270, from I-76 to I-25.
Yep, I-270 between I-25 and I-76 was built much later than the freeways it continues as on either end.
Unless CDOT planned on extending I-270 westward beyond I-25, it seems odd they would have signed it as "Future". There isn't even one full mile of I-270 between I-76 and I-25, so there wouldn't be much else yet to open.
They don't even mention "To I-25 North" on the I-270 West guide, which I think is a major omission. (You can't exit onto I-25 North from I-76 West.) They do have one supplemental guide sign in the mix that does mention it, but it looks easily missed.
It was probably signed future because of FHWA wonkiness with approving it as an Interstate.
Surprised no one has mentioned the grandaddy of them all: I-95 in NJ. There as still "TO I-95" signs on I-295 between exits 60 and 67, then on I-195 between I-295 and the NJTP. I can even remember seeing these signs on a trip to Great Adventure as a teenager along the turnpike from Exit 7A to Exit 10. Once the Somerset freeway was officially cancelled, they just changed the "TO" to "North", and added reassurance markers southbound.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 08, 2013, 02:08:16 AM
Unless CDOT planned on extending I-270 westward beyond I-25, it seems odd they would have signed it as "Future". There isn't even one full mile of I-270 between I-76 and I-25, so there wouldn't be much else yet to open.
They don't even mention "To I-25 North" on the I-270 West guide, which I think is a major omission. (You can't exit onto I-25 North from I-76 West.) They do have one supplemental guide sign in the mix that does mention it, but it looks easily missed.
For all intents & purposes, there was no reason for CDOT to even add the TO heading to US-36 as US-36 was multiplexed with I-270 already (but as we all know in Colorado, any US or state route which shares an interstate does not exist in the eyes of CDOT).
So whether the freeway connection between I-270 and US 36 was completed or not there had to have been an official routing of US-36 between the Boulder Turnpike and Byers.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 10:29:09 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 05, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
In MA, there were some 70s-era BGS' for I-95 South in Topsfield & Danvers that listed Lynn along with Boston as its control cities giving hint the highway would eventually pass through Lynn. Needless to say, this didn't happen but the old BGS' remained as is until they were all replaced sometime during the 1990s.
similar to how out here, I-710 has a control city of Pasadena, even on replacement signs from the 2000s.
I remember the Lynn-Boston signs, as well as the fact that one of the local radio stations (101.7, WFNX?) always called its geographical location "Lynn/Boston". other than that - having grown up at the other end of missing I-95 (Canton) - I barely knew where Lynn was.
WFNX had their studios in Lynn at one point, hence the "Lynn/Boston" moniker. As for the "Lynn-Boston" signs on I-95, most were removed when the "Task A" interchange (95/128 "split") in Peabody was opened to traffic in 1989. The sole remaining sign, which was a pull-thru on I-95 south at Route 1 at the Topsfield/Danvers line (Exit 50) was replaced during the 1994 sign updating project on I-95 between Peabody and Georgetown. Note that the 1994 signs are about to be replaced under a sign replacement contract that was just awarded for this same section of I-95.
Quote from: roadman on April 08, 2013, 12:44:16 PMWFNX had their studios in Lynn at one point, hence the "Lynn/Boston" moniker. As for the "Lynn-Boston" signs on I-95, most were removed when the "Task A" interchange (95/128 "split") in Peabody was opened to traffic in 1989. The sole remaining sign, which was a pull-thru on I-95 south at Route 1 at the Topsfield/Danvers line (Exit 50) was replaced during the 1994 sign updating project on I-95 between Peabody and Georgetown. Note that the 1994 signs are about to be replaced under a sign replacement contract that was just awarded for this same section of I-95.
I drove on that stretch of I-95 fairly frequently until mid-1990 (prior to my I moving to PA) and I know for a fact that the two
95 SOUTH Lynn Boston BGS' along US 1 south at Exit 50 were
still present then. And since the current BGS' (the pull-through and the ones at the I-95 on-ramps) have the button-copy I-95 shields, that tells me that
all those BGS' at that interchange were all replaced
at the same time (circa 1994).
As mentioned earlier, the two advance notice diagrametric BGS' for I-95 North (along US 1 North) and I-95 South (along US 1 South) appear to have been recently replaced.
The only
Lynn Boston BGS that got nixed during the 80s was the one further south in between MA 114 & Lowell St.; top of the hill w/the tree-laden median that never sported an I-95 shield. That one, along w/the gantry, was replaced in 1982 by a left-side cantilever gantry w/a BGS that intially read:
95 SOUTH 128
Burlington
Gloucester
EXIT 2 MILESNote: the font on the 95 & 128 shields were of a type that the MassDPW & RIDOT experimented w/for a brief period.
About a year or two later the 2 shields and cardinal were replaced (w/much smaller lettering for the cardinals) and the BGS read:
95 SOUTH 128 NORTH SOUTH(NORTH placed above SOUTH)
Burlington
Gloucester
EXIT 2 MILESBoth shields featured the more standard fonts.
In the mid-90s (probably 1994), the BGS & gantry were replaced with the current cantilever post gantry & BGS reading:
95 NORTH 128 (NORTH placed above 128)
[/i]Waltham
Gloucester
EXIT 2 MILES[/i]
The I-95 shield being of the button-copy type.
While looking through Google Earth, it appears that this gantry & BGS are missing; it might've been knocked down in an accident and never replaced.
Turning towards the Delaware ValleyDespite the fact that the Somerset Expressway (missing I-95) was killed off nearly 3 decades ago; PennDOT's signage along I-95 North from Bristol (Exit 40) to the NJ state line over the last few years have sported
Princeton listed on the BGS'.
Similarly (and for a much longer timeframe), signage for I-295 North in NJ from I-195 (Exit 60) northward list
Princeton as well.
For those that don't know; Princeton was one of the reasons why the orginal plans for I-95 in NJ was never built between Ewing & Metuchen.
You are indeed correct PHLBOS - my comment about the Task A interchange construction was in reference to the "Lynn-Boston" signing on the I-95 mainline only. The BGSes on Route 1, including the signs for I-95, within the Exit 50 rotary were not replaced until about 1998.
Quote from: roadman on April 08, 2013, 06:52:34 PMmy comment about the Task A interchange construction was in reference to the "Lynn-Boston" signing on the I-95 mainline only. The BGSes on Route 1, including the signs for I-95, within the Exit 50 rotary were not replaced until about 1998.
1998 ? I would've thought it would've been replaced earlier; when the mainline BGS' along I-95 were done in 1994.
Regarding that pull-through BGS (the only pull-through that had the
Lynn Boston control destinations); that one was still there circa mid-July of 1990.
In total, there were only four
95 SOUTH Lynn Boston BGS' actually erected (the 4th one never getting an I-95 shield). There probably would've been a 5th one had Exit 46 been built to its original design movements. IIRC, there was a gantry that had a single BGS for US 1 South (reading
1 SOUTH Saugus w/a single down-arrow) placed on the right-side of the gantry with the left side left blank (for the never erected I-95 BGS). The advance gantry w/the 4th I-95/Lynn Boston BGS (prior to Lowell St.) also had a similar BGS for US 1 SOUTH (containing Saugus as a control destination).
The original 70s-vintage BGS for US 1 South at Exit 50 had
Middleton Danvers as its listed control cities... hinting of the upcoming MA 62 interchange.
Note sure if this one's still here, but an old 50s/60s era BGS in Readville, MA intended to direct motorists to the I-95/Southwest Expressway; note the blank space for an I-95 shield that would never be posted.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universalhub.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fnewportri.jpg&hash=ecb65c66dc52ea5353701370106d6b33b1f004bd)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 05, 2013, 01:37:24 PM
the gantry topology was identical to this, except all green-white (and with NORTH and SOUTH switched).
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19794951i1.jpg)
OT: One of those two signs is hanging on my wall: (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fma%2Fi-495%2F495.jpg&hash=656b2d1848011348ba6afab27e34124b03fffa33) The other was traded for more signs.
Quote from: mukade on April 05, 2013, 06:32:35 PM
Back in the 1970s Indiana used "TO" I-94 on SR 39 as did Michigan on M-239. Probably the same on the ITR. Michigan used at least some "TO" I-196 signs between Jenison and Holland on former M-21 (now M-121).
Wouldn't that have been "TO" I-96? I thought they were completed before the switch.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 08, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
Note sure if this one's still here, but an old 50s/60s era BGS in Readville, MA intended to direct motorists to the I-95/Southwest Expressway; note the blank space for an I-95 shield that would never be posted.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universalhub.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fnewportri.jpg&hash=ecb65c66dc52ea5353701370106d6b33b1f004bd)
Not sure if it's still there, either. When I first saw it, it had this sign on the left, but flipped upside-down, and I think it was then removed:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fma%2Fma_28%2Fs138l.jpg&hash=24c235c749e0075dda3d0149e8a17709deef2b47)
@PHLBOS. The signs on US 1 at Exit 50 were replaced as part of the Chelsea to Danvers US 1 re-signing project (panels and structures) in 1999, as opposed to the I-95 Peabody to Georgetown re-signing project (panels only) in 1994.
Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: mukade on April 05, 2013, 06:32:35 PM
Back in the 1970s Indiana used "TO" I-94 on SR 39 as did Michigan on M-239. Probably the same on the ITR. Michigan used at least some "TO" I-196 signs between Jenison and Holland on former M-21 (now M-121).
Wouldn't that have been "TO" I-96? I thought they were completed before the switch.
It was I-94. The Indiana missing link was completed in the early 1970s.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 08, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
Note sure if this one's still here, but an old 50s/60s era BGS in Readville, MA intended to direct motorists to the I-95/Southwest Expressway; note the blank space for an I-95 shield that would never be posted.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universalhub.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fnewportri.jpg&hash=ecb65c66dc52ea5353701370106d6b33b1f004bd)
Actually it would have had ROUTE (I-)95 in text. The other sign once had ROUTE 135.
Quote from: roadman on April 08, 2013, 07:56:54 PM
@PHLBOS. The signs on US 1 at Exit 50 were replaced as part of the Chelsea to Danvers US 1 re-signing project (panels and structures) in 1999, as opposed to the I-95 Peabody to Georgetown re-signing project (panels only) in 1994.
Thanks for the update/clarification. Which supports my earlier point of 3 of the 4
Lynn Boston BGS' surviving
into the 1990s.
Quote from: NE2 on April 08, 2013, 09:05:35 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universalhub.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fnewportri.jpg&hash=ecb65c66dc52ea5353701370106d6b33b1f004bd)
Actually it would have had ROUTE (I-)95 in text. The other sign once had ROUTE 135.
Possibly, but one has to remember the existence of the 50s era BGS' mounted on the northbound Tobin (then Mystic) Bridge containing 18" I-95 shields. So in this case, it could've been an either or scenario. There looks like there's room for an 18" shield.
The West Virginia Turnpike had "TO I-77" shields as the highway was still two-lanes and not up to interstate standards. It was not until circa 1988 that the regular I-64/77 trailblazers were installed.
1979:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Fwvpics%2Fvintage%2Fi77exit96-summa1979.jpg&hash=b0d1eca812880913b606dddd0e56479c9ba9504d)
Today (http://goo.gl/maps/rTDpm)
--
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 08, 2013, 08:08:48 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned the grandaddy of them all: I-95 in NJ. There as still "TO I-95" signs on I-295 between exits 60 and 67, then on I-195 between I-295 and the NJTP. I can even remember seeing these signs on a trip to Great Adventure as a teenager along the turnpike from Exit 7A to Exit 10. Once the Somerset freeway was officially cancelled, they just changed the "TO" to "North", and added reassurance markers southbound.
I guess those of us who live/work in the area are so used to it . . .
Originally the "TO" trailblazers were only between Exits 4 (I-95) and 67 (I-295) and in both directions. If memory serves, no I-295 confirmation assemblies appeared on the mainline, but both I-295 and "To I-95" appeared on the interchange ramps in this section. It was pretty confusing giving verbal directions because of how similar-sounding the routes were: 295, to 95. The routing to I-95 North was up U.S. 1 to I-287 at that time and included Turnpike trailblazers on U.S. 1 proper.
When I-95 was pushed to U.S. 1 in about 1993, the "TO" was removed between Exits 4 and 67. Not long after, the I-95/Turnpike trailblazers started to appear on I-295 SB and I-195 EB. This was when the temporary ramp connections between I-295 to/from north and I-195 to/from east were in place, then eventually full completion of the interchange and I-295.
In both cases, there was never anything for the reverse direction on U.S. 1, I-295 or I-195.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 09, 2013, 08:47:05 AM
Possibly, but one has to remember the existence of the 50s era BGS' mounted on the northbound Tobin (then Mystic) Bridge containing 18" I-95 shields. So in this case, it could've been an either or scenario. There looks like there's room for an 18" shield.
the positioning of the word "TO" implies absent text, not an absent shield, to me.
when was the left sign replaced? it looked pretty decrepit by Sept. 2007, when I photographed it - but it is retroreflective, has the wrong font... and on the other hand, it is new enough that NE2 knows the sign it replaced, which I assume was button copy as well.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 09, 2013, 01:01:36 PM
on the other hand, it is new enough that NE2 knows the sign it replaced, which I assume was button copy as well.
I was referring to this third sign, to the left of the other two:
Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 07:46:13 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fma%2Fma_28%2Fs138l.jpg&hash=24c235c749e0075dda3d0149e8a17709deef2b47)
when I photographed that gantry, the third sign had been rotated 90 degrees, settling at its lowest gravitational potential (face down to the road). Is it that way in Steve's photo as well? looks to be.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 08, 2013, 08:08:48 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned the grandaddy of them all: I-95 in NJ. There as still "TO I-95" signs on I-295 between exits 60 and 67, then on I-195 between I-295 and the NJTP.
That's because most people (myself included) were primarily looking at signs that actually listed a destination that the incomplete Interstate was supposed to go through: In NJ, it was I-95 through Princeton; in MA, it was I-95 through Lynn. Or hints of a connection to a missing Interstate (example: the fore-mentioned Readville, MA BGS blank spacing intended for I-95 text).
That said, those
TO 95 signs could count if the ends of the
TO trailblazers are indeed located where the Interstate abruptly ends (From NJTP Exit 10 to I-95 between NJ 31 & Federal City Road); essentially the set-up in NJ pre-1993(?).
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 04, 2013, 05:03:49 PM
If you want a current example involving the control cities, consider that the new Interstate 69 in Southern Indiana has no northbound control city, since only half of the highway is built. Signage plans have indicated that Indianapolis will be added later on, but probably not until the highway is complete up to at least Bloomington if not Indy, time will tell. On the other hand, Evansville is the southbound control city even though Interstate 69 does not yet reach the city, it continues south of Interstate 64 as Interstate 164, but will be Interstate 69 in the future. No TEMP shields however and I'm unsure if there were ever any in Indiana.
"To I-69" signs have now been erected along the route connecting Bloomington to the temporary end of the interestate near Crane, IN: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg214291#msg214291 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg214291#msg214291)
No word on when a northern control city may appear.
Attleboro, MA: previous-generation BGS' along I-95 at the I-295 interchange (Exit 4) had blank spaces intended for a 2nd control destination for the never-built I-895 east of that interchange. Not 100% sure what the city/destination would've been listed... Newport perhaps?
Newport, RI: RI 138 (possible I-895) northbound, there's an old pull-through BGS that reads Fall River Cape Cod (I believe in button-copy) with a RI 138 shield, NORTH cardinal and 45-degree arrow slapped above the control destinations. This BGS would've likely have read 895 NORTH (or EAST) Fall River Cape Cod had 895 been built.
A pic of that BGS can be found at (scroll towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/ (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/)
Similarly, RI 138 westbound signage from Newport to US 1 include New York as a control destination; the freeway portions of RI 138 were once planned to be part of I-895.
East of Hartford, CT; the listing of Providence for I-384 East signage dates back to when this highway was once planned to be part of I-84.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 10, 2013, 09:15:09 AM
A pic of Alanland can be found at (scroll towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/ (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fri_138%2Fs238.jpg&hash=b44f1904ddc4034469f29523ed1b7eed5d70328c)
Quote from: NE2 on April 10, 2013, 01:57:57 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 10, 2013, 09:15:09 AM
A pic of Alanland can be found at (scroll towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/ (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fri_138%2Fs238.jpg&hash=b44f1904ddc4034469f29523ed1b7eed5d70328c)
:-D
Quote from: NE2 on April 10, 2013, 01:57:57 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 10, 2013, 09:15:09 AM
A pic of Alanland can be found at (scroll towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/ (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/ri_138/)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fri_138%2Fs238.jpg&hash=b44f1904ddc4034469f29523ed1b7eed5d70328c)
Alanland's fame ranges far and wide: http://goo.gl/maps/dxFqb (http://goo.gl/maps/dxFqb)