Right now, they don't.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmutcd.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fhtm%2F2009%2Fimages%2Ffig2g_16.gif&hash=3234605973a9c5822f369d420dd9578f6619ea09)
In Washington and California, I have yet to see an HOV Exit with an associated exit number. Should they have exit numbers?
I-90 Express Lanes:
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/washington090/i-090_eb_exit_006_19.jpg)
I-15 in SLC:
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/utah015/i-015_nb_080_wb_exit_308_03a.jpg)
(former signage: https://www.aaroads.com/west/utah015/i-015_nb_080_wb_exit_308_03.jpg)
Phoenix has a bunch too. And the HOV part of I-66 has exit numbers :bigass:
I-90 Express lanes aren't HOV exclusive until the middle of Mercer Island (Exit 7B).
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=mercer+island&ll=47.590218,-122.238253&spn=0.006179,0.016512&hnear=Mercer+Island,+King,+Washington&gl=us&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=47.590263,-122.238355&panoid=XdXESxIk4Tb3d9WcDc3AYQ&cbp=12,123.74,,0,8.01
This is probably the only "HOV Exit Number" in the state.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=mercer+island&ll=47.580054,-122.196241&spn=0.00437,0.008256&hnear=Mercer+Island,+King,+Washington&gl=us&t=h&layer=c&cbll=47.580054,-122.196241&panoid=aGtkIK15DHgE_siggmJryA&cbp=12,105.9,,0,-5.85&z=18
But it's sort of a stretch since it's on its own carriageway. I was more referring to the conventional left HOV exit signs. Washington usually uses all white for those signs.
I do think after "HOV EXIT" should be the exit number. Isn't the whole idea of exit numbering to keep track of where you're going? Do HOV drivers not need that information? Granted, they're more likely to be local, but families on vacations can also end up in HOV lanes, particularly if they're visiting a city on a weekday.
Quote from: Steve on April 12, 2013, 06:55:06 PM
I do think after "HOV EXIT" should be the exit number. Isn't the whole idea of exit numbering to keep track of where you're going? Do HOV drivers not need that information? Granted, they're more likely to be local, but families on vacations can also end up in HOV lanes, particularly if they're visiting a city on a weekday.
In my opinion, HOV (or managed) lanes should
not have their own exit numbers, especially if the lanes have exits that are different from the conventional lanes, which is common when the managed lanes are barrier-separated.
I think HOV exits with numbers should be an option. However, unless the HOV exit and the regular exit go to the same place(s) and diverge from the mainline at about the same place, the HOV exit should have its own number, perhaps prefixed by H.
I like the idea of having some sort of a parallel exit numbering scheme. Maybe in the 9### range, where ### matches the milepost.
Quote from: vtk on April 13, 2013, 05:27:18 AM
I think HOV exits with numbers should be an option. However, unless the HOV exit and the regular exit go to the same place(s) and diverge from the mainline at about the same place, the HOV exit should have its own number, perhaps prefixed by H.
Why not prefix it with an H without giving it its own number? For instance, on I-5 near Seattle, you have general-purpose Exit 143 for 320th Street, and an HOV exit for 317th Street. Why renumber them 143A and H143B, when 143 and H143 would do just as nicely?
HOV Exits should have Exit Numbers matching the same exit route from the main line. If there is no corresponding mainline exit, then the exit number should simply be based on the mileage of the route. And "H" Designation might be helpful, but only if it does not meet with the exit from the main line, or connects to other HOV or Express lanes.
But how would you define "corresponding mainline exit"? Do 317th and 320th correspond, or are they two separate interchanges three blocks apart? Or what about I-405 in Bellevue, where you have general purpose exits for 4th and 8th, and an HOV exit for 6th?
I made some mock-ups of possible HOV exits.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_1_zps174cecdc.png&hash=016c29f2c74297a871c1414af222dd5a830a70df)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_2_zps3ecd4c29.png&hash=ed881a2defe4b43f29f05003070f8507487371b7)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_3_zps548e8cbf.png&hash=b513e84d1c78be54f590079744f4b0e864211743)
California is tricky with its restrictions on height. Here's its existing design.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_ca_1_zpsac9211f6.png&hash=b372dc84e95290bd05493d002a3de87368db7b84)
I added a control city to the example and tried something with existing CalTrans signs.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_ca_2_zpse8d70925.png&hash=4142b6a963188df9053f62ad8ba42cf1545c38d1)
This one is my favorite from your set. I think it best encapsulates the idea of an HOV exit number.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 15, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_3_zps548e8cbf.png&hash=b513e84d1c78be54f590079744f4b0e864211743)
Quote from: TEG24601 on April 13, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
HOV Exits should have Exit Numbers matching the same exit route from the main line. If there is no corresponding mainline exit, then the exit number should simply be based on the mileage of the route. And "H" Designation might be helpful, but only if it does not meet with the exit from the main line, or connects to other HOV or Express lanes.
Consider the barrier-separated HOV (and soon to be HOV/Toll lanes) along I-95 and I-395 (Shirley Highway) in Northern Virginia.
Many of the exits do
not match the parallel conventional lanes, though some do.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 15, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
I made some mock-ups of possible HOV exits.
I added a control city to the example and tried something with existing CalTrans signs.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_ca_2_zpse8d70925.png&hash=4142b6a963188df9053f62ad8ba42cf1545c38d1)
I'm not entirely sure why "HOV" needs to be embedded in the exit tab especially since the main sign includes the white-on-black diamond symbol. I would have simply use a standard Caltrans exit "tab" (left-justfied of course)...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fhov_exitnum.png&hash=d144affe9308d824c9b093a1a5074450b9bf8ea5)
It should be noted, that current Caltrans policy states that HOV exits are not to be given an exit number.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 16, 2013, 03:53:24 AM
I'm not entirely sure why "HOV" needs to be embedded in the exit tab especially since the main sign includes the white-on-black diamond symbol. I would have simply use a standard Caltrans exit "tab" (left-justfied of course)...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fhov_exitnum.png&hash=d144affe9308d824c9b093a1a5074450b9bf8ea5)
The HOV exit could be different from the mainline exit. Even if it's a certain exit, I don't think they would just call it 'EXIT 211'.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 16, 2013, 03:53:24 AM
It should be noted, that current Caltrans policy states that HOV exits are not to be given an exit number.
Please reread the thread...
It also goes against the MUTCD to attribute an exit number to an HOV exit. Some states ignore that, though. That post I made offers solutions to add HOV exit numbers as possibly implemented by the MUTCD and the biggest MUTCD bastardizer -- Caltrans (and I grew up in California, so I'm used to their signs).
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 16, 2013, 04:02:28 AM
Please reread the thread...
It also goes against the MUTCD to attribute an exit number to an HOV exit. Some states ignore that, though. That post I made offers solutions to add HOV exit numbers as possibly implemented by the MUTCD and the biggest MUTCD bastardizer -- Caltrans (and I grew up in California, so I'm used to their signs).
Fair enough. Of the solutions you did provide, I like this one the best...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_1_zps174cecdc.png&hash=016c29f2c74297a871c1414af222dd5a830a70df)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 16, 2013, 04:02:28 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 16, 2013, 03:53:24 AM
I'm not entirely sure why "HOV" needs to be embedded in the exit tab especially since the main sign includes the white-on-black diamond symbol. I would have simply use a standard Caltrans exit "tab" (left-justfied of course)...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fhov_exitnum.png&hash=d144affe9308d824c9b093a1a5074450b9bf8ea5)
The HOV exit could be different from the mainline exit. Even if it's a certain exit, I don't think they would just call it 'EXIT 211'.
And this is why I agree with the MUTCD that HOV exits should not be given an exit number. Think about it this way. For the most part, billboards and advertisements along interstates include an exit number to inform motorists which exit to take to reach said business. If the ad said to take Exit 211 but that exit is an HOV-only exit, then how would solo drivers reach that business? Would the ad have to say "Take Exit 211 if your a HOV. All others should take Exit 213 and back track"?
what about those HOV exits the spill into the mainlanes, then exit with main lane traffic? Like the Beltway 8 exit for the Katy HOV/Tollway? How does one put an exit number for a half ass exit?
Quote from: Perfxion on April 16, 2013, 06:21:47 AM
what about those HOV exits the spill into the mainlanes, then exit with main lane traffic? Like the Beltway 8 exit for the Katy HOV/Tollway? How does one put an exit number for a half ass exit?
They don't. It's just a crossover. Or you can say "To Exit __." As for the billboard poster, simple. "Exit 213 / HOV Exit 211." Done.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 16, 2013, 04:46:34 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 16, 2013, 04:02:28 AM
The HOV exit could be different from the mainline exit. Even if it's a certain exit, I don't think they would just call it 'EXIT 211'.
And this is why I agree with the MUTCD that HOV exits should not be given an exit number. Think about it this way. For the most part, billboards and advertisements along interstates include an exit number to inform motorists which exit to take to reach said business. If the ad said to take Exit 211 but that exit is an HOV-only exit, then how would solo drivers reach that business? Would the ad have to say "Take Exit 211 if your a HOV. All others should take Exit 213 and back track"?
Then that's the fault of the company that designed the advertisment. If they are stupid enough to inform the majority of motorists to use a restricted exit, and those motorists use said exit, and those motorists get a ticket for illegally using the said exit, how is that the fault of the Transportation Department?
Since the majority of HOV drivers are commuting to/from work, chances are the ad is meaningless to them on a regular basis.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 16, 2013, 04:46:34 AM
Fair enough. Of the solutions you did provide, I like this one the best...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_1_zps174cecdc.png&hash=016c29f2c74297a871c1414af222dd5a830a70df)
That style roughly matches what we have in Virginia on the Beltway's high-occupancy/toll lanes. It's easy to envision these signs tweaked a bit to show exit numbers:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Fdr-gridlock%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F01%2FTysons-signs-e1359407355219.jpg&hash=97834a652474b58db3d509fb061ec9c337d4bd8c)
I don't know what the number would be given the very close proximity of exits. The Dulles exit, as you can see, is Exit 45. The Jones Branch exit shown here is in between Exit 45 and existing Exit 46 (VA-123, out of the image behind the camera). Exit 47 is for VA-7 and there's another express exit between Exits 46 and 47; same thing applies down the road between Exits 49 and 50.
I do tend to think that it's a bit ludicrous to over-obsess about not confusing people in adjacent carriageways. If you can't tell the sign located on the other side of the barrier with the "Express Exit" banner isn't accessible to you, then you shouldn't be driving. But on the other hand, it's perfectly valid not to want to use the same number (say, 45) for different exits to different roads.
I think "HOV Exit 211" and "Exit 211" are pretty basic distinctions people should be able to make.
It seems like Phoenix, AZ, designates HOV exits as normal exits, but attributes a letter to them.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=phoenix,+az&hl=en&ll=33.461386,-112.090062&spn=0.008029,0.016512&sll=38.888663,-77.11246&sspn=0.001873,0.004128&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.461374,-112.089887&panoid=xDO2rwOF3eT2QD1V5n9cjQ&cbp=12,93.46,,0,-4.94
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 16, 2013, 09:09:01 AM
I don't know what the number would be given the very close proximity of exits. The Dulles exit, as you can see, is Exit 45. The Jones Branch exit shown here is in between Exit 45 and existing Exit 46 (VA-123, out of the image behind the camera). Exit 47 is for VA-7 and there's another express exit between Exits 46 and 47; same thing applies down the road between Exits 49 and 50.
I do tend to think that it's a bit ludicrous to over-obsess about not confusing people in adjacent carriageways. If you can't tell the sign located on the other side of the barrier with the "Express Exit" banner isn't accessible to you, then you shouldn't be driving. But on the other hand, it's perfectly valid not to want to use the same number (say, 45) for different exits to different roads.
Rather than reinvent the wheel, do what has been done for many, many years. Just put a suffix on the Exit number, such as Exit 45A, Exit 45B, etc.
Another option:
Regular exit: Exit 45
HOV exit: Exit 45H.
KEK above presents another very viable solution as well.
I sort of combined AZDOT (white exit tabs) and WSDOT (bus and carpool icons) and the vanilla MUTCD (green background for the exit information) in this HOV exit concept.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_5_zps63257dc9.png&hash=26358a3e791aa20a9764c071c281e8c6a20d2be7)
Here's an example mock-up on a freeway interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2Fhov_4_zpsdd39a601.png&hash=0d1e9c80dc84aebe6a7136357ad88c3e1c1ca7b2)
In the Phoenix area, many (if not most) of the HOV exits have numbers. Newer installations have the entire exit tab as black on yellow.
Here's my concept idea, though I do like yours KEK.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag88%2FZeffyboy%2FHOVConcept_F_zps14d47268.png&hash=853c8b96623209ef418db34a08cf57e66a72568b)
I might need to redo the panel at the bottom, because HOV ONLY is kinda ambiguous, especially if the lane drops. Basically it's the same as a normal BGS, except the HOV panel in the exit tab, along with the HOV symbol on the left of the tab as well.
Quote from: TEG24601 on April 13, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
HOV Exits should have Exit Numbers matching the same exit route from the main line. If there is no corresponding mainline exit, then the exit number should simply be based on the mileage of the route. And "H" Designation might be helpful, but only if it does not meet with the exit from the main line, or connects to other HOV or Express lanes.
As a general design philosophy, there should never be a destination with an HOV exit but no general use exit, thus avoiding this problem. It may not always hurt but it certainly won't help congestion to force non-HOV traffic to potentially have to take a longer route to its destination. It also screws up GPS navigation when an exit may or may not be available to a given driver depending on how many people are in the car.
The opposite, however (general use exit but no HOV exit, HOV lanes are "express" lanes) is perfectly acceptable so long as drivers are made aware of the skipped exits before they enter the HOV lanes.
It's fairly popular to have HOV interchanges at different roads than normal interchanges. It probably improves traffic on the local roads.
It's actually rare for a non-freeway interchange to have the same HOV exit to the exact road.
Setting aside the issue of numbers, I've always liked the idea of using different-colored guide signs over managed lanes, similar to the way Route 401 through Toronto uses blue signs over the Collector Lanes and green signs over the Express Lanes. Back in the 1970s and through most of the 1980s the reversible center carriageway on I-395 in Virginia (back then people didn't call it "HOV" yet, everyone called it the "express lanes") had overhead signs that were white-on-black but otherwise looked like standard guide signs (i.e., normal in all way but color). It made it apparent at a glance when a sign was for the express lanes.