There are several roads in New Jersey that have missing warning or regulatory signage. A lack of signs at sharp curves, reassurance route markers, guide route markers with junction and cardinal direction sign plates, as well as regulatory signs is a big pet peeve. Camden County does a terrible job maintaing their roads. In addition to only resurfacing one section of a roadway and leaving the rest to be filled with more potholes, several traffic signs are faded and need replacement. I have contacted county officials via email on the matter and they say that the township or borough is responsible for replacing signs. I found that BS, because when I contacted a township that the county road passes through, they said the county is responsible, after them sending in an email an attached photo of the back of a traffic sign with a yellow bar code sticker, which clearly read County of Camden Dept of Public Works. If you have to, Google Street view these: In Monmouth County, on Route 527 (Millhurst Road) in Manalapan, NJ, near a couple schools, the road is prone to speeders. Anyway on CR 527 northbound, just north of the traffic signal at Woodward Road and Main Street (CR 3), the speed limit is 40. According to the imagery on Street View from 2007, there used to be a "Reduced Speed Ahead" sign near Manalapan/Englishtown Middle School. This sign no longer exists, and the speed drops from 40 to 30 suddenly. I have contacted the County several months ago, and they never responded to this. They also have not responded to several other similar road issues. Continuing on Millhurst Road northbound, the speed limit is 30 and then the road enters Englishtown, coming to a stop sign at Park Avenue/Railroad Street. Here, there are no county route shields with directional arrows in either direction to direct drivers continuing on 527. There is also no warning sign for the traffic light at Tennent Avenue (CR 522) or a "Junction CR 522" route shield in downtown Englishtown. I think 500 series routes intersecting each other should have these signs installed. Another county route is Route 524, which runs nearby. Locally known as Elton Adelphia Road, the speed limit varies from 50 to 45. In Freehold Twp, just west of Jackson Mills Road, the speed limit is 45 and drivers must wait almost a mile or so to determine the speed limit. I contacted the county once again to perhaps install a speed limit sign in the appropriate location. They must be placed within a certain amount of feet away from an intersection, and drivers should not wait a mile to determine how fast to travel. Never assume everyone is a local. On US Route 9, there are ramps that merge onto the highway and at rush hour, they can be full and congested. Some ramps have yellow merge warning signs, but others do not. They should however, and I have contacted NJDOT several times about the various locations where they need to install these warning signs. I find that they only do one thing at a time, and wait several months until they take action on the next highway issue. Route 9 is one of the worst highways in the state, especially in Ocean, Monmouth, and Middlesex Counties.
As of May 10, 2013, an engineer from Monmouth County, NJ emailed me stating that he will investigate the areas of concern. Hopefully within a month or two, these issues will be resolved.
that block of text is best read with a hammer.
I'm not surprised no one has gotten back to you. They're still trying to read that.
I had to read that wall of text about 3 times before I actually understood what you were trying to say. Might want to break it up for easier readability next time.
Quote from: J Route Z on April 17, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
Camden County does a terrible job maintaing their roads. In addition to only resurfacing one section of a roadway and leaving the rest to be filled with more potholes, several traffic signs are faded and need replacement. I have contacted county officials via email on the matter and they say that the township or borough is responsible for replacing signs. I found that BS, because when I contacted a township that the county road passes through, they said the county is responsible, after them sending in an email an attached photo of the back of a traffic sign with a yellow bar code sticker, which clearly read County of Camden Dept of Public Works.
I think Camden, NJ has
a lot of other problems to worry about rather than aging road signs. The roads being full of potholes is a valid point, but, let's be real here, it's kinda scary to drive anywhere in Camden.
My English teacher would have a field day with him. I wonder if he did that in one breath?
Two words: bullet points
Quote from: roadman65 on April 17, 2013, 08:21:09 PM
My English teacher would have a field day with him. I wonder if he did that in one breath?
Except for the run-on paragraph, it's not horrible on a sentence-by-sentence basis.
The original post reminds me of something from the TV show red dwarf.
Ext. Red Dwarf in space.
RIMMER: (VO) After intensive investigation, comma, of the markings on the
alien pod, comma, it has become clear, comma, to me, comma, that we are
dealing, comma, with a species of awesome intellect, colon.
HOLLY: Good. Perhaps they might be able to give you a hand with your
punctuation.
RIMMER: Shut up.
But back to roads not meeting current standards.
What to you, are the, current standards, for all highways, in your area? For example, what if, the road was built, and expanded, less than a decade ago, and is due, for repaving, while you complain about it?
Quote from: J Route Z on April 17, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
Camden County does a terrible job maintaing their roads. In addition to only resurfacing one section of a roadway and leaving the rest to be filled with more potholes, ...
I'll vouch for that.
QuoteFor example, what if, the road was built, and expanded, less than a decade ago, and is due, for repaving, while you complain about it?
A decade? Try about three decades since some roads have been paved. It may be worse since that's as far back as i remember.
Probably the worst is when they put a sewer line in the middle of a road and just patch the road. They don't repave it let alone rebuild the road.
In burlington county the Sewer Dept is not the same as the dept for roads/bridges. So sometimes they don't communicate.
Quote from: J Route Z on April 17, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
Anyway on CR 527 northbound, just north of the traffic signal at Woodward Road and Main Street (CR 3), the speed limit is 40. According to the imagery on Street View from 2007, there used to be a "Reduced Speed Ahead" sign near Manalapan/Englishtown Middle School. This sign no longer exists, and the speed drops from 40 to 30 suddenly. I have contacted the County several months ago, and they never responded to this.
Isn't there a cutoff as to how much of a speed limit drop requires an advance sign? I remember hearing that at some point, but I don't know the answer. Anyway, I just want to suggest a possible explanation that a drop from 40 to 30 doesn't actually require advance signage.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2013, 12:02:42 PM
Isn't there a cutoff as to how much of a speed limit drop requires an advance sign?
nope, the Small Town Cop Lobby would never allow one to pass.
many towns in Nevada drop from 65 or 70 to 25 with absolutely no warning. Fallon and Searchlight come to mind. both speed traps.
For those of you who struggled with the wall of text, here is my edited version:
Quote from: J Route Z on April 17, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
There are several roads in New Jersey that have missing warning or regulatory signage. A lack of signs at sharp curves, reassurance route markers, guide route markers with junction and cardinal direction sign plates, as well as regulatory signs is a big pet peeve.
Camden County does a terrible job maintaing their roads. In addition to only resurfacing one section of a roadway and leaving the rest to be filled with more potholes, several traffic signs are faded and need replacement. I have contacted county officials via email on the matter and they say that the township or borough is responsible for replacing signs. I found that BS, because when I contacted a township that the county road passes through, they said the county is responsible, after them sending in an email an attached photo of the back of a traffic sign with a yellow bar code sticker, which clearly read County of Camden Dept of Public Works.
If you have to, Google Street view these (ADD: but good luck, since I am too lazy to actually provide you the links):
○ In Monmouth County, on Route 527 (Millhurst Road) in Manalapan, NJ, near a couple schools, the road is prone to speeders. Anyway on CR 527 northbound, just north of the traffic signal at Woodward Road and Main Street (CR 3), the speed limit is 40. According to the imagery on Street View from 2007, there used to be a "Reduced Speed Ahead" sign near Manalapan/Englishtown Middle School. This sign no longer exists, and the speed drops from 40 to 30 suddenly. I have contacted the County several months ago, and they never responded to this. They also have not responded to several other similar road issues.
○ Continuing on Millhurst Road northbound, the speed limit is 30 and then the road enters Englishtown, coming to a stop sign at Park Avenue/Railroad Street. Here, there are no county route shields with directional arrows in either direction to direct drivers continuing on 527. There is also no warning sign for the traffic light at Tennent Avenue (CR 522) or a "Junction CR 522" route shield in downtown Englishtown. (ADD: The following is my own personal opinion.) I think 500 series routes intersecting each other should have these signs installed.
○ Another county route is Route 524, which runs nearby. Locally known as Elton Adelphia Road, the speed limit varies from 50 to 45. In Freehold Twp, just west of Jackson Mills Road, the speed limit is 45 and drivers must wait almost a mile or so to determine the speed limit (ADD: but I'm going to leave it a mystery as to how I know the speed limit is 45, since there is no sign). I contacted the county once again to perhaps install a speed limit sign in the appropriate location. They must be placed within a certain amount of feet away from an intersection (ADD: well, maybe not every intersection, but at least the ones I feel like), and drivers should not wait a mile to determine how fast to travel. Never assume everyone is a local.
○ On US Route 9, there are ramps that merge onto the highway and at rush hour, they can be full and congested. Some ramps have yellow merge warning signs, but others do not. They should however, and I have contacted NJDOT several times about the various locations where they need to install these warning signs. I find that they only do one thing at a time, and wait several months until they take action on the next highway issue. Route 9 is one of the worst highways in the state, especially in Ocean, Monmouth, and Middlesex Counties.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 22, 2013, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2013, 12:02:42 PM
Isn't there a cutoff as to how much of a speed limit drop requires an advance sign?
nope, the Small Town Cop Lobby would never allow one to pass.
many towns in Nevada drop from 65 or 70 to 25 with absolutely no warning. Fallon and Searchlight come to mind. both speed traps.
If they tried that I would go to them, say "so it's really about revenue, since there's no other legitimate argument against this. I'm gonna blow the lid off your conspiracy to use motorists as cash cows. Have fun with all the negative publicity". I'm sure that would cause their opposition to become meaningless - in fact, it would probably cause the opposition to work the opposite as intended!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 22, 2013, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2013, 12:02:42 PM
Isn't there a cutoff as to how much of a speed limit drop requires an advance sign?
nope, the Small Town Cop Lobby would never allow one to pass.
many towns in Nevada drop from 65 or 70 to 25 with absolutely no warning. Fallon and Searchlight come to mind. both speed traps.
The MUTCD recommends 10 mph increments as Guidance: "A Reduced Speed Limit Ahead (W3-5 or W3-5a) sign (see Section 2C.38) should be used to inform road users of a reduced speed zone where the speed limit is being reduced by more than 10 mph..."
FDOT seems to have a general policy to go down by 10 at a time *and* post the W3-5 signs. Very useful.
Quote from: Steve on April 22, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 22, 2013, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2013, 12:02:42 PM
Isn't there a cutoff as to how much of a speed limit drop requires an advance sign?
nope, the Small Town Cop Lobby would never allow one to pass.
many towns in Nevada drop from 65 or 70 to 25 with absolutely no warning. Fallon and Searchlight come to mind. both speed traps.
The MUTCD recommends 10 mph increments as Guidance: "A Reduced Speed Limit Ahead (W3-5 or W3-5a) sign (see Section 2C.38) should be used to inform road users of a reduced speed zone where the speed limit is being reduced by more than 10 mph..."
Thank you so much! That confirmed my suspicion. Not only is an advance sign not required by law, but it isn't even recommended for drops of 10 mph or less. Zing!
Quote from: Zeffy on April 17, 2013, 07:41:40 PM
I had to read that wall of text about 3 times before I actually understood what you were trying to say. Might want to break it up for easier readability next time.
Quote from: J Route Z on April 17, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
Camden County does a terrible job maintaing their roads. In addition to only resurfacing one section of a roadway and leaving the rest to be filled with more potholes, several traffic signs are faded and need replacement. I have contacted county officials via email on the matter and they say that the township or borough is responsible for replacing signs. I found that BS, because when I contacted a township that the county road passes through, they said the county is responsible, after them sending in an email an attached photo of the back of a traffic sign with a yellow bar code sticker, which clearly read County of Camden Dept of Public Works.
I think Camden, NJ has a lot of other problems to worry about rather than aging road signs. The roads being full of potholes is a valid point, but, let's be real here, it's kinda scary to drive anywhere in Camden.
To be fair, don't confuse Camden with the rest of Camden County. In general, Camden County is an older county, with plenty of narrow roads, buildings close to the roadway, etc. Back when people had to ferry across the river to Philly, the majority of them lived in Camden County, and would drive to locations within Camden (which, back in the day, was a perfectly fine city). So the road system was created back when the horse-and-buggy were the primary method of travel.
Over the years, Camden County has been doing a relatively good job of upgrading the roads. It just takes a long, long time to get around to some of them which were well underfunded for way too long.
The problem with "current standards" is that once a road is built, it is already not upto current standards within a decade. For example I-295 where it meets NJ29 and 295, i doubt that is upto 2013 standards, the pavement is cracking in spots. It is under 20 years old though
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 29, 2013, 07:20:37 AM
The problem with "current standards" is that once a road is built, it is already not upto current standards within a decade. For example I-295 where it meets NJ29 and 195, i doubt that is upto 2013 standards, the pavement is cracking in spots. It is under 20 years old though
It is much improved after a repaving project a few years ago. The original road surface did seem to age prematurely though - it was in bad shape after only 10 - 15 years of use.
Currently though, the road surface seems to be in good shape without any cracking, potholes, etc.
NJ has lots of substandard roads because they are old. The approaches to the Tunnels into NYC were build in the 1930s and it would be probably billions just to redo them. However NJ seems to use the old roads/high density population as an excuse to have crappy roads. Even more rural areas of NJ have neglected roads. New completed construction seems like roads in Florida that are 80% done. Granted FL does not have to account for winter weather, snow plows etc. But NJ could do much better.
NJ has a large population for its size and a relatively low state road mileage. The roads should be some of the best in the county. Maryland is an older state with high density population around the levels of NJ in the Baltimore/Washington area. Their roads are excellent in comparison. A lot more freeways and arterials are multilaned for the most part. And they have heavy transit funding as well.
Quote from: jwolfer on May 03, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
NJ has lots of substandard roads because they are old. The approaches to the Tunnels into NYC were build in the 1930s and it would be probably billions just to redo them. However NJ seems to use the old roads/high density population as an excuse to have crappy roads.
Keep in mind Port Authority has jurisdiction over the approaches. Holland Tunnel isn't an issue with the approaches, it's actually New York city streets and traffic signals that cause backups all the way back through the tunnel to the toll plaza and limit how many can get to NJ. Building another tunnel or two, now you're talking billions and billions. Lincoln Tunnel, the only way NJ 495 gets more capacity is by decking all the way above the cross streets with a new roadway, and then that has to feed into New York somehow anyway. It's rare to get to the tolls after more than about 5-10 minutes of backup and have open tunnel ahead. Once the delays get serious, it's still propagating back from New York. Had the Mid-Manhattan and Lower Manhattan Expressways been built, then you'd definitely have a point.
Quote from: Steve on May 03, 2013, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on May 03, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
NJ has lots of substandard roads because they are old. The approaches to the Tunnels into NYC were build in the 1930s and it would be probably billions just to redo them. However NJ seems to use the old roads/high density population as an excuse to have crappy roads.
Keep in mind Port Authority has jurisdiction over the approaches. Holland Tunnel isn't an issue with the approaches, it's actually New York city streets and traffic signals that cause backups all the way back through the tunnel to the toll plaza and limit how many can get to NJ. Building another tunnel or two, now you're talking billions and billions. Lincoln Tunnel, the only way NJ 495 gets more capacity is by decking all the way above the cross streets with a new roadway, and then that has to feed into New York somehow anyway. It's rare to get to the tolls after more than about 5-10 minutes of backup and have open tunnel ahead. Once the delays get serious, it's still propagating back from New York. Had the Mid-Manhattan and Lower Manhattan Expressways been built, then you'd definitely have a point.
I was thinking about how few road connections there are to NYC from NJ. Jacksonville has the St Johns river right through the middle of the city and we have 7 crossings in Duval County and one more between Clay and St Johns County.
Realistically by the time roads were being built in the 1930s-60s NYC and Northern NJ were fully developed. So no where to put new crossings to Manhattan. But the expressways across Manhattan would be helpful for through traffic.
Many canceled freeways would have helped congested areas in many cities... ( ie had I-95 been build as planned in Washington DC would the Beltway be the traffic nightmare it is now. And how would that have effected sprawl.).. but that is another topic
Quote from: jwolfer on May 03, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
NJ has lots of substandard roads because they are old. The approaches to the Tunnels into NYC were build in the 1930s and it would be probably billions just to redo them. However NJ seems to use the old roads/high density population as an excuse to have crappy roads. Even more rural areas of NJ have neglected roads. New completed construction seems like roads in Florida that are 80% done. Granted FL does not have to account for winter weather, snow plows etc. But NJ could do much better.
NJ has a large population for its size and a relatively low state road mileage. The roads should be some of the best in the county. Maryland is an older state with high density population around the levels of NJ in the Baltimore/Washington area. Their roads are excellent in comparison. A lot more freeways and arterials are multilaned for the most part. And they have heavy transit funding as well.
New Jersey traditionally won't construct a project unless the municipalities agree to the project. And traditionally, the people of the municipality - at least those that speak up - don't want roads widened, so they complain to the town council, which then says no deal to the state. So a lot of time, money, effort, planning, etc, will wind up sitting in a filing cabinet because these towns refuse to agree to a project.
In other states, the state will more/less say "We're widening this road". End of discussion. Unless there's a well formed group of NIMBY's...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 07, 2013, 08:54:43 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on May 03, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
NJ has lots of substandard roads because they are old. The approaches to the Tunnels into NYC were build in the 1930s and it would be probably billions just to redo them. However NJ seems to use the old roads/high density population as an excuse to have crappy roads. Even more rural areas of NJ have neglected roads. New completed construction seems like roads in Florida that are 80% done. Granted FL does not have to account for winter weather, snow plows etc. But NJ could do much better.
NJ has a large population for its size and a relatively low state road mileage. The roads should be some of the best in the county. Maryland is an older state with high density population around the levels of NJ in the Baltimore/Washington area. Their roads are excellent in comparison. A lot more freeways and arterials are multilaned for the most part. And they have heavy transit funding as well.
New Jersey traditionally won't construct a project unless the municipalities agree to the project. And traditionally, the people of the municipality - at least those that speak up - don't want roads widened, so they complain to the town council, which then says no deal to the state. So a lot of time, money, effort, planning, etc, will wind up sitting in a filing cabinet because these towns refuse to agree to a project.
Gee, you're telling me. We're untold numbers of decades late on one particular project because every time it comes up, one of the affected towns says no.