WTOP Radio: Buses could use I-66 shoulders in 2014 (http://www.wtop.com/654/3290041/Interstate-shoulders-targeted-to-help-reduce-congestion)
QuoteVirginia plans to begin allowing commuter buses to use the shoulders of Interstate 66 inside the Capitol Beltway as part of a pilot project aimed at reducing congestion along the heavily traveled route.
QuoteAt a task force hearing on buses on shoulder lanes, Virginia and Maryland transportation officials briefed members about how they could ease congestion along Interstate 270 and I-66. The task force is part of the Transportation Planning Board at the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.
QuoteVirginia Department of Transportation officials are considerably further along than Maryland. The agency hopes to begin its pilot program in 2014 along five segments of I-66 inside the Beltway.
Oh I have issues with them calling it "Shoulder lanes". They aren't a lane, they are a shoulder. This idiocy was tried in Los Angeles on the Santa Ana Freeway back in the 1980's and more recently here in San Diego. It is a dumb idea on so many levels.
It's not a "dumb idea". It's been quite successful in the Twin Cities metropolitan area.
The shoulder "lane" is used often in areas of greater Boston, especially on I-93/US 1.
The shoulder "lane", otherwise known as the emergency lane, is for breakdowns. It isn't built for, nor meant for driving. It is narrower than a standard lane for that reason. The last thing I need to be dealing with if I'm broken down on the side of the freeway is worrying about being hit by someone not paying attention while DRIVING where they shouldn't be. If nothing else, it causes more traffic and is an idiotic "solution".
Quote from: sdmichael on April 19, 2013, 05:41:29 PM
The shoulder "lane", otherwise known as the emergency lane, is for breakdowns. It isn't built for, nor meant for driving. It is narrower than a standard lane for that reason. The last thing I need to be dealing with if I'm broken down on the side of the freeway is worrying about being hit by someone not paying attention while DRIVING where they shouldn't be. If nothing else, it causes more traffic and is an idiotic "solution".
I agree that shoulder should be for breakdowns.
But having said that, the shoulder use by buses on the (short) Dulles Connector Road works well.
QuoteIt is narrower than a standard lane for that reason.
Not always. Several locations have a full 12ft shoulder.
QuoteThe last thing I need to be dealing with if I'm broken down on the side of the freeway is worrying about being hit by someone not paying attention while DRIVING where they shouldn't be. If nothing else, it causes more traffic and is an idiotic "solution".
Doesn't cause more traffic, because the trigger for buses using the shoulder is heavy congested traffic to begin with. If traffic's going 35+, the buses stay in the regular lanes.
Quote from: sdmichael on April 19, 2013, 05:41:29 PM
The shoulder "lane", otherwise known as the emergency lane, is for breakdowns. It isn't built for, nor meant for driving. It is narrower than a standard lane for that reason. The last thing I need to be dealing with if I'm broken down on the side of the freeway is worrying about being hit by someone not paying attention while DRIVING where they shouldn't be. If nothing else, it causes more traffic and is an idiotic "solution".
That wouldn't be an issue considering everywhere I know of with shoulder running has frequent emergency pull-offs, just like those found on roads with no shoulders like the MassPike, that are plenty wide enough for both shoulder traffic and a broken-down vehicle. Here's an example on MA 3: http://goo.gl/maps/NUqLx
I can't recall ever hearing about any accident caused by someone legally driving on the shoulder striking a broken down vehicle. I think you're picturing traffic whizzing down the shoulder at 80 mph, which would virtually never be the case. Here in MA, where we have shoulder running on 128 (95), I-93, and MA 3, it is only allowed for a couple hours during rush hour, and only for cars and buses - no trucks. During these hours, these roads are generally severely congested, and if they aren't congested by some miracle, then no one would theoretically be on the shoulder anyway. No one in their right mind would want to be on the shoulder rather than in a regular lane unless they're practically at a standstill. This means that no one is ever going to be doing more than 25 mph or so on the shoulder. And at 25 mph, you have plenty of time to see a disabled vehicle and merge back over if need be.
Now that is all referring to cars using the shoulder, but the same principles apply to buses. I'm sure no bus driver would ever be on the shoulder except in heavy traffic, and are there really that many buses on I-66 where it would become a problem anyway?
Also, I can't possibly fathom how opening up another lane causes more traffic, as it relieves the existing regular lanes in times of heavy traffic. And based on the fact that several US cities, and countless places abroad (Australia and Europe both love shoulder running, especially for buses) use it, I fail to see how this solution can be considered "idiotic". Now if you have a civil engineering degree, professional certification, etc., and would like to prove otherwise, please do!
Back in either the late 1980s or early 1990s there was a fatal accident on I-95 in Fairfax County when a tractor-trailer bring driven illegally in the shoulder lane outside the permissible hours smashed into a broken-down car (I'm pretty sure it was a Mustang) that was stopped on the shoulder. That incident is what led to the "X/arrow" lights, and distinctly-colored pavement, used on I-66's shoulder lanes.
The red "X" signals on I-66 are, in my experience, frequently ignored by drivers who feel traffic is too slow to suit their taste.
I-264 has "shoulder lanes" east of I-64, complete with red X signals. Most drivers ignore the signals, sometimes with dangerous consequences.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2013, 11:19:27 AM
Back in either the late 1980s or early 1990s there was a fatal accident on I-95 in Fairfax County when a tractor-trailer bring driven illegally in the shoulder lane outside the permissible hours smashed into a broken-down car (I'm pretty sure it was a Mustang) that was stopped on the shoulder. That incident is what led to the "X/arrow" lights, and distinctly-colored pavement, used on I-66's shoulder lanes.
I recall a similar fatal accident soon thereafter on I-66 outside the Beltway.
I imagine the proposed bus-only shoulder lanes on I-66 through Arlington must create mixed feelings for Arlington County officials. They have stridently opposed addition of auxiliary lanes, and might consider any improvements of the existing shoulders to be just one more step to eventually turning the shoulder into an auxiliary lane. On the other hand, they favor public transit alternatives to widening I-66, so they might swallow hard and go along with bus-only shoulder lanes as delaying or preventing their conversion to all-user auxiliary lanes.
Yeah, many people are comfortable driving full speed down regular width shoulders. Newer Thruway sections are even built with full width shoulders in both the left and right so that a two-lane carriageway can be converted into a four-lane divided road in the event of major construction. After three years of driving through a major Thruway reconstruction zone, the narrower lanes don't phase me at all.
Does I-66 have enough traffic to need this? From what I've read, I-66 inside the beltway has less congestion during rush hour than outside of it due to the HOV requirement, and outside of rush hour it appears to be fine outside of work zones from when I was on it during a family vacation to DC.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 20, 2013, 11:52:06 AM
I-264 has "shoulder lanes" east of I-64, complete with red X signals. Most drivers ignore the signals, sometimes with dangerous consequences.
I think the 264 lanes are poorly designed. Most other places (like MA) with shoulder running don't stripe the shoulder any differently than they would any other shoulder (i.e. acceleration lanes still end, and to continue straight on the shoulder you have to drive across a diagonal line, whereas on 264 the shoulder is treated as an extra lane that is normally closed between exits (striped as a regular lane, just with a single solid line separating it). So if you enter the freeway from an intermediate interchange, you have to change lanes once from the acceleration lane onto the shoulder, then change lanes again if the shoulder is closed. The dashed lane markings just end at the end of the acceleration lane. This effectively makes the shoulder an additional lane that is easy to drive in all the time, and as such people always use it.
Here is a crude paint drawing to illustrate the differences:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FozW3yGu.jpg&hash=b6ee4dc46f003c48afcbba638368e63943788991)
Massachusetts Virginia
Quote from: vdeane on April 20, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
From what I've read, I-66 inside the beltway has less congestion during rush hour than outside of it due to the HOV requirement, and outside of rush hour it appears to be fine outside of work zones from when I was on it during a family vacation to DC.
You were lucky. Those of us who live inside the Beltway, less so. Except when HOV requirements apply, congestion can strike at just about any time, even midday and on weekends.
One long-standing proposal, to make the HOV requirements bi-directional (to apply also westbound in the morning, and eastbound in the evening), could help rush-hour buses avoid delays from "reverse commute" traffic on the return leg of their routes, without using the shoulder. But some buses run on I-66 through Arlington even outside of rush hours, especially between downtown and Dulles Airport.
I was on eastbound I-66 outside the Beltway about an hour ago. The usual crawling traffic had us going about 25—30 mph. The "red 'X' doesn't apply to me" crowd were rocketing past at 55+.
I avoid I-66 inside the Beltway unless I'm going HOV or going to Dulles Airport during HOV hours (and indeed I've shown up super-early for flights to London just to make sure I got to use the HOV exemption).
Quote from: oscar on April 20, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 20, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
From what I've read, I-66 inside the beltway has less congestion during rush hour than outside of it due to the HOV requirement, and outside of rush hour it appears to be fine outside of work zones from when I was on it during a family vacation to DC.
You were lucky. Those of us who live inside the Beltway, less so. Except when HOV requirements apply, congestion can strike at just about any time, even midday and on weekends.
One long-standing proposal, to make the HOV requirements bi-directional (to apply also westbound in the morning, and eastbound in the evening), could help rush-hour buses avoid delays from "reverse commute" traffic on the return leg of their routes, without using the shoulder. But some buses run on I-66 through Arlington even outside of rush hours, especially between downtown and Dulles Airport.
Maybe it would be a good idea to make I-66 a HOT interstate then.
Quote from: vdeane on April 20, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
Does I-66 have enough traffic to need this? From what I've read, I-66 inside the beltway has less congestion during rush hour than outside of it due to the HOV requirement, and outside of rush hour it appears to be fine outside of work zones from when I was on it during a family vacation to DC.
I-66 inside the Capital Beltway is only HOV restricted in the peak-flow direction for a relatively few hours each weekday (eastbound 6:30 A.M. to 9:00 A.M.; and westbound 4:00 P.M. to 6:30 P.M.).
But the off-peak flow directions (westbound in the morning and eastbound in the evening) is often subject to severe and recurring congestion, and this impacts the buses, some of which have to deadhead back in the off-peak direction to run a second or maybe even third trip. And there are some buses on I-66 that run in "revenue" service off-peak, notably the 5A, which runs between Washington Dulles Airport and the L'Enfant Plaza Metrorail station in Southwest Washington, D.C.
Quote from: oscar on April 20, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
One long-standing proposal, to make the HOV requirements bi-directional (to apply also westbound in the morning, and eastbound in the evening), could help rush-hour buses avoid delays from "reverse commute" traffic on the return leg of their routes, without using the shoulder. But some buses run on I-66 through Arlington even outside of rush hours, especially between downtown and Dulles Airport.
All correct.
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
Maybe it would be a good idea to make I-66 a HOT interstate then.
Better to either widening it or strip it of its interstate designation - if it's going to where an I-shield, it should be open to all passenger traffic.
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 21, 2013, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
Maybe it would be a good idea to make I-66 a HOT interstate then.
Better to either widening it or strip it of its interstate designation - if it's going to where an I-shield, it should be open to all passenger traffic.
In that case, they should have stripped it of it's interstate designation back when it was built, because there were always HOV restrictions of some kind. It was part of the compromise to get it built at all. Widening will NEVER happen - if it had a chance, it would have been built four lanes each way to begin with.
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2013, 12:27:20 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 21, 2013, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
Maybe it would be a good idea to make I-66 a HOT interstate then.
Better to either widening it or strip it of its interstate designation - if it's going to where an I-shield, it should be open to all passenger traffic.
In that case, they should have stripped it of it's interstate designation back when it was built, because there were always HOV restrictions of some kind. It was part of the compromise to get it built at all. Widening will NEVER happen - if it had a chance, it would have been built four lanes each way to begin with.
A few comments:
(1) The HOV restrictions have been reduced since this section of I-66 opened back in 1982. They were originally HOV-4, then HOV-3, and finally HOV-2 in the mid-1990's. As discussed upthread, the HOV restrictions were always in the peak-flow direction only, even though today it
might make sense to have them in both directions now.
(2) The decision that led to I-66 being built between I-495 and Rosslyn, Arlington County was called the Coleman Decision, handed-down by the Ford Administration's USDOT Secretary William T. Coleman, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thaddeus_Coleman,_Jr.) in 1977, shortly before he left office (Jimmy Carter was inaugurated on 20-Jan-1977). Congress explicitly anulled most of the Coleman Decision in about 1995, though in a sense it remains in effect today.
(3) The Coleman Decision kept most of I-66 at two lanes each way (with a pair of Metrorail tracks (Orange Line, soon to be joined by the Silver Line) in the median between Fairfax Drive and I-495). But widening
has happened - recently, too. The most-congested segment of 66 has always centered around the interchange at North Sycamore Street, Va. 237 (Washington Boulevard) and U.S. 29 (Lee Highway) (here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lee+highway+%26+washington+boulevard,+arlington+county,+va&hl=en&ll=38.887926,-77.161489&spn=0.018673,0.038581&sll=38.887292,-77.157347&sspn=0.009337,0.01929&gl=us&hnear=Lee+Hwy+%26+Washington+Blvd,+Arlington,+Virginia+22213&t=m&z=15)). Within the last year or two, a lane was added on the westbound side of I-66 between Fairfax Drive and North Sycamore Street (updated GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lee+highway+%26+washington+boulevard,+arlington+county,+va&hl=en&ll=38.880402,-77.139784&spn=0.001167,0.002411&sll=38.887292,-77.157347&sspn=0.009337,0.01929&gl=us&hnear=Lee+Hwy+%26+Washington+Blvd,+Arlington,+Virginia+22213&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=38.880366,-77.139681&panoid=wQytSURI-WZuYxHzC_xvTA&cbp=12,301.2,,0,18.8)).
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on April 20, 2013, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 20, 2013, 11:52:06 AM
I-264 has "shoulder lanes" east of I-64, complete with red X signals. Most drivers ignore the signals, sometimes with dangerous consequences.
I think the 264 lanes are poorly designed. Most other places (like MA) with shoulder running don't stripe the shoulder any differently than they would any other shoulder (i.e. acceleration lanes still end, and to continue straight on the shoulder you have to drive across a diagonal line, whereas on 264 the shoulder is treated as an extra lane that is normally closed between exits (striped as a regular lane, just with a single solid line separating it). So if you enter the freeway from an intermediate interchange, you have to change lanes once from the acceleration lane onto the shoulder, then change lanes again if the shoulder is closed. The dashed lane markings just end at the end of the acceleration lane. This effectively makes the shoulder an additional lane that is easy to drive in all the time, and as such people always use it.
Here is a crude paint drawing to illustrate the differences:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FozW3yGu.jpg&hash=b6ee4dc46f003c48afcbba638368e63943788991)
Massachusetts Virginia
I'm not a fan of the "massachusetts" method. There, it is not clear to a driver from outside the area that they can't follow the lane stripes (like they do everywhere else in the country) and instead yield to people who are driving across the stripes (illegal in 99.99% of other situations). This applies to both entrance ramps (where the ramp meets the shoulder) and exit ramps (entering the beginning of the decel lane). I've seen many people steadfastly refuse to enter the shoulder prior to an exit ramp, and instead "just go over" where the decel lane begins and not yield to traffic on the shoulder and almost get clobbered.
I think Virginia's system is safer, as it doesn't involve crossing lines in ways that you normally aren't supposed to. However, it is certainly true that most people don't think of the lanes in VA as shoulders...they think of them as another lane, since they are striped like a lane, and obviously is safe to use as a lane, therefore the self-important folks will use it illegally when everyone else waits.
I like the idea of bus-only shoulders though. The bus drivers can drive reasonably responsibly, and will know to slow down and merge around a broken down vehicle on the shoulder. At least the transit buses do on the Dulles Connector Road.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
I avoid I-66 inside the Beltway unless I'm going HOV or going to Dulles Airport during HOV hours (and indeed I've shown up super-early for flights to London just to make sure I got to use the HOV exemption).
Be sure to bring your boarding pass if you do this though. Arlington Police seems to be cracking down on HOV violators, and have been running HOV checks on the WB entrance ramps often during PM rush hour. Note that the Dulles exemption for I-66 HOV is slightly different than the rules for using the Dulles Access Road (the former, VDOT explicitely states "going to the airport to catch a flight or pick someone up", and going to the airport to buy a newspaper or to eat or get gas does not entitle one to use I-66 during HOV hours...where the latter, any official airport business, including getting a bite to eat, filling up at the airport gas station, or checking your Dulles PO Box is valid), and the police are of the opinion that "everyone says they are going to the airport", so best to actually have proof.
One thing I did notice is that the white regulatory signs on the WB entrance ramps do not explicitely mention the Dulles exemption anymore, only the signs at the beginning of the restricted section in Rosslyn do. So technically if you are coming from anywhere other than DC/110, they might be able to issue you a ticket anyway if they really wanted to.
That's odd. Used to be the exemption was implemented by checking either entrance or exit ramps (depending on the direction) so that Airport traffic would slip by undetected. What caused the change?
Quote from: vdeane on April 23, 2013, 11:40:26 AM
That's odd. Used to be the exemption was implemented by checking either entrance or exit ramps (depending on the direction) so that Airport traffic would slip by undetected. What caused the change?
Too many people getting on saying "I'm going to the airport" or "I'm coming from the airport" and abusing the system. This is part of VDOT's crackdown..."you must be off the lanes before the restrictions kick in".
For example, in the morning, someone exits I-66 eastbound at Fairfax Drive. They slipped on undetected from the Dulles Toll Road (where it is very hard to catch people). It is pretty clear that they are on a commute to work as the cops see this same car everyday. So lately they've started checking at all off-ramps/on-ramps regardless of direction. If you are on a ramp that could be used to go to/come from the airport, they may ask a question or two. Oh, you said you are coming from the airport because you got a cup of coffee? Ticket. You admitted you didn't come from the airport? Ticket. You said you dropped someone off but you have stuff all over the passenger seat and it doesn't look like you really dropped someone off? Ticket.
Quote from: vdeane on April 23, 2013, 11:40:26 AM
That's odd. Used to be the exemption was implemented by checking either entrance or exit ramps (depending on the direction) so that Airport traffic would slip by undetected. What caused the change?
It used to be that Virginia State Police would do HOV enforcement where the Dulles Airport Access Road and the Dulles Toll Road (Va. 267) merge to form the Dulles Connector Road in Fairfax County, east of Va. 123. Non-HOV traffic coming from the airport was ignored, non-HOVs coming from Va. 267 were stopped and ticketed.
But when MWAA took over the Toll Road, such enforcement fell to the MWAA Police, who don't do it so frequently. Arlington County Police cannot enforce anywhere on the Dulles Connector, because it's entirely in Fairfax County.
But the Arlington County Police can (and do) enforce the HOV requirement at eastbound I-66 entrance ramps in the mornings (North Sycamore Street and Va. 120, North Glebe Road), and at westbound I-66 exit ramps in the afternoons (Va. 120 and Sycamore).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 23, 2013, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 23, 2013, 11:40:26 AM
That's odd. Used to be the exemption was implemented by checking either entrance or exit ramps (depending on the direction) so that Airport traffic would slip by undetected. What caused the change?
It used to be that Virginia State Police would do HOV enforcement where the Dulles Airport Access Road and the Dulles Toll Road (Va. 267) merge to form the Dulles Connector Road in Fairfax County, east of Va. 123. Non-HOV traffic coming from the airport was ignored, non-HOVs coming from Va. 267 were stopped and ticketed.
But when MWAA took over the Toll Road, such enforcement fell to the MWAA Police, who don't do it so frequently. Arlington County Police cannot enforce anywhere on the Dulles Connector, because it's entirely in Fairfax County.
But the Arlington County Police can (and do) enforce the HOV requirement at eastbound I-66 entrance ramps in the mornings (North Sycamore Street and Va. 120, North Glebe Road), and at westbound I-66 exit ramps in the afternoons (Va. 120 and Sycamore).
My point was that Arlington County police also enforce the HOV requirement at EB off-ramps and WB on-ramps (specifically, last week, I saw them at Fairfax Drive and Lee Highway/Spout Run manning the WB entrance ramps in the afternoon). There might be airport traffic on those ramps, but I'm assuming they would pull those people to the side, ask their destination (or origin), and possibly a couple of other questions to determine if they are really Airport traffic or just saying their are airport traffic to circumvent HOV. Also to weed out those who are valid users of the Access Road but not valid HOV users...those grabbing a muffin are conducting airport business and can use the access road, but are not catching a flight/dropping off/picking up and cannot use HOV inside the Beltway. Just because they came from the access road doesn't mean they are valid for the airport exemption, and most times they will get away with it, but not if questioned at an Arlington Police checkpoint at a westbound on-ramp in the afternoon. If you buy a muffin, you technically have to exit the access highway at the Beltway or Route 123 to get the rest of the way into DC, whereas if you come off a flight, you can continue on I-66.
Also, Fairfax County police frequently man the on and off-ramps at Route 7 (where all ramps are non-airport traffic....except you can take the eastbound entrance ramp in the morning as an SOV to get to the Metro station), and the Route 123/267 ramps (eastbound entrance and westbound exits are restricted, westbound entrance and eastbound exits are not restricted).
Quote from: mtantillo on April 23, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
Also to weed out those who are valid users of the Access Road but not valid HOV users...
I would think MWAA would have a strong incentive to enforce that, even if they don't for the HOV...
Quote from: vdeane on April 24, 2013, 12:09:31 PM
Quote from: mtantillo on April 23, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
Also to weed out those who are valid users of the Access Road but not valid HOV users...
I would think MWAA would have a strong incentive to enforce that, even if they don't for the HOV...
They do. But MWAA only cares about the access road, not I-66 in Arlington. The HOV rules are more stringent than the access road rules.
-Not coming from Dulles- no access road, no HOV exemption on I-66
-Coming from Dulles after buying gas, coffee, etc- access road allowed, but no HOV exemption on I-66
-Coming from Dulles after coming in off a flight- access road allowed, HOV exemption for I-66.
Arlington police is interested in ticketing those who legally use the access road that should not be on I-66.
The points Mike is making raise an interesting issue with regard to things like electronic boarding passes and the like–that is, some airlines will now issue a boarding pass to your smartphone and you just display that at the gate. (I have not tried this since I have not flown in several years.) You could just pull it up and show it to the cop, I guess, assuming you check in online before going to the airport (I always do; I try to check in as early as possible so as to snag my desired seats, especially on transatlantic flights). An easier alternative might be just to print out your confirmation e-mail showing flight information. I've never thought much about it for two reasons. First, I no longer work downtown and so am unlikely to use I-66 to go to the airport unless I'm picking up my wife at her office first, in which case it's not an issue because we'd have the two people required for HOV. Second, when you're coming from downtown via the Roosevelt Bridge the only place I've ever seen enforcement is at the split between the Access Road and the local lanes just before the overpass above Route 123–they watch people bearing right onto the lanes that become the Toll Road and they stop anyone who doesn't have two people. (I've seen many people swerve into the Access Road when they realize the cops are there....a savvy move by the cops would be to have a second cop with a radio calling ahead to MWAA police.) I've never once seen them set up HOV enforcement in the Rosslyn Tunnel area, for example. I've seen them on the other on-ramps, especially the one at Glebe Road, many times over the years, but if you're coming from downtown those aren't an issue.
It does make me think of the plane-spotting scenario. I used I-66 and the Access Road roundtrip from downtown to the airport in 2003 to go watch the final Air France Concorde arrival at Dulles (F-BVFA making her "ferry flight" for delivery to the Smithsonian). It was outside HOV hours so that wasn't an issue, but I guess plane-spotting falls in the same category as getting gas, buying a donut, etc., and does not qualify for the HOV exemption. You're going there for a scheduled flight's arrival, but you're not picking up a passenger.
http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hov-rulesfaq.asp
"You are not permitted to use I-66 inside the beltway during HOV hours if you are going to the airport to eat, get coffee, get gas or any other reason other than boarding a plane or picking someone up at the airport."
So you're not allowed to use it eastbound after getting off a plane or dropping someone off. Gotcha.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 20, 2013, 11:52:06 AM
I-264 has "shoulder lanes" east of I-64, complete with red X signals. Most drivers ignore the signals, sometimes with dangerous consequences.
As well as I-66, that's the fault of laxed enforcement. If that many people are doing so, it would be relatively easy to have some cops sitting along the road, stopping those on the shoulder. Have a few cops out there and those that try to quickly change out of the shoulder will only be doing so into congested traffic, and they are easy to pick out.
Chances are, it's the same people every day. A few days of heavy enforcement will quickly drop the number of people riding the shoulder when it's closed.
Quote from: mtantillo on April 23, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
My point was that Arlington County police also enforce the HOV requirement at EB off-ramps and WB on-ramps (specifically, last week, I saw them at Fairfax Drive and Lee Highway/Spout Run manning the WB entrance ramps in the afternoon).
In the afternoons, I have usually seen the Arlington County officers at the exit from westbound I-66 to Sycamore Street, often with a police car or police motorcycle positioned so that drivers cannot see the vehicle until they have committed to exiting there.
The HOV enforcement at the westbound on-ramps is a somewhat recent development (I think), because of the Dulles Airport exemption.
Quote from: mtantillo on April 23, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
There might be airport traffic on those ramps, but I'm assuming they would pull those people to the side, ask their destination (or origin), and possibly a couple of other questions to determine if they are really Airport traffic or just saying their are airport traffic to circumvent HOV. Also to weed out those who are valid users of the Access Road but not valid HOV users...those grabbing a muffin are conducting airport business and can use the access road, but are not catching a flight/dropping off/picking up and cannot use HOV inside the Beltway. Just because they came from the access road doesn't mean they are valid for the airport exemption, and most times they will get away with it, but not if questioned at an Arlington Police checkpoint at a westbound on-ramp in the afternoon. If you buy a muffin, you technically have to exit the access highway at the Beltway or Route 123 to get the rest of the way into DC, whereas if you come off a flight, you can continue on I-66.
All correct. And remember that (especially in the afternoons, telling the cops that you are going to pick someone up at Dulles is considered "Airport Business").
Quote from: mtantillo on April 23, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
Also, Fairfax County police frequently man the on and off-ramps at Route 7 (where all ramps are non-airport traffic....except you can take the eastbound entrance ramp in the morning as an SOV to get to the Metro station), and the Route 123/267 ramps (eastbound entrance and westbound exits are restricted, westbound entrance and eastbound exits are not restricted).
Virginia State Police also enforce HOV there - and on the mainline of I-66 between I-495 and Va. 7.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 24, 2013, 03:02:58 PM
As well as I-66, that's the fault of laxed enforcement. If that many people are doing so, it would be relatively easy to have some cops sitting along the road, stopping those on the shoulder. Have a few cops out there and those that try to quickly change out of the shoulder will only be doing so into congested traffic, and they are easy to pick out.
I disagree. The Dulles Airport exemption makes HOV enforcement
much more difficult along I-66 (as compared to I-395/I-95).
The exemption for Virginia-registered Priuses and other "Clean Fuel" vehicles also complicates matters to some extent. I suspect that this exemption would not survive a legal challenge because it discriminates against non-Virginia owners of such cars, since they cannot obtain such plates for their vehicle.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 24, 2013, 03:02:58 PM
Chances are, it's the same people every day. A few days of heavy enforcement will quickly drop the number of people riding the shoulder when it's closed.
The VSP does engage in "saturation" HOV enforcement every once in a while, but to some extent they are constrained by the Commonwealth's budget in terms of the amount of resources they can devote to such operations.
cp, I think "jeffandnicole" was referring to the issue of people driving illegally in the shoulder lane outside the Beltway and not to the HOV issue.
Quote from: NE2 on April 24, 2013, 01:32:41 PM
http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hov-rulesfaq.asp
"You are not permitted to use I-66 inside the beltway during HOV hours if you are going to the airport to eat, get coffee, get gas or any other reason other than boarding a plane or picking someone up at the airport."
So you're not allowed to use it eastbound after getting off a plane or dropping someone off. Gotcha.
I wonder why the left off the before dropping someone off case. Oversight?
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 24, 2013, 03:49:56 PM
cp, I think "jeffandnicole" was referring to the issue of people driving illegally in the shoulder lane outside the Beltway and not to the HOV issue.
Thanks for pointing that out. So much in the way of "strange" stuff in the I-66 corridor - all the way from U.S. 29 at Gainesville to Rosslyn.
I have seen the VSP out looking for those violators as well, especially early in the afternoon at the "pull-off" westbound between I-495 and Va. 243 (Nutley Street), which is
ever so slightly on a curve to the right, so "Red X" scofflaws can get nailed (§ 46.2-805 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-805) of the
Code of Virginia, I believe), usually in the afternoons.
Though perhaps not "saturation" style enforcement, since there's so little space to safely stop them.
Quote from: vdeane on April 24, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 24, 2013, 01:32:41 PM
http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hov-rulesfaq.asp
"You are not permitted to use I-66 inside the beltway during HOV hours if you are going to the airport to eat, get coffee, get gas or any other reason other than boarding a plane or picking someone up at the airport."
So you're not allowed to use it eastbound after getting off a plane or dropping someone off. Gotcha.
I wonder why the left off the before dropping someone off case. Oversight?
It's HOV-2, so you're complying with the normal rules if you have a passenger.