I just posted a response in the "Highways You Have Clinched" thread, and then I got to thinking... how does everyone define what counts for them as "clinching" a highway?
For me, being a passenger does not count. I must be the one behind the wheel. That makes me feel more as if I "own" the road, so to speak.
Another thought is... do you have to travel the highway from end to end in both directions, or does one direction suffice? A term I've heard float around is "certifying" a highway if you've clinched it in both directions. I thought that was a pretty neat term. I don't have many highways "certified" (and don't really keep track of that either), but it's kind of a neat concept.
So... what does everyone think? What are your criteria?
I'm fairly strict- I need to have been behind the wheel during daylight hours for me to count as clinching. And I'm only really comfortable saying I've clinched if I have a camera in hand to take pictures of the signs and put them on my website.
One direction is sufficient- it just becomes too much to try and do both, though in my efforts to drive the entire mileage of these western state systems, particularly Wyoming, you have to drive most of it both directions anyway.
Quote from: corco on April 18, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
I'm fairly strict- I need to have been behind the wheel during daylight hours for me to count as clinching.
I really like the "daylight hours" part of your definition. I hate driving on new roads (for me) at night, because I can't see the scenery. I still count it as clinching, but it's kind of weak. (I actually just had the happen a couple weeks ago when I was driving from Michigan to Ashland, Kentucky, for a road meet. I was staying overnight in Wapakoneta, Ohio, and drove a section of U.S. 30 that I had never driven before. Unfortunately, it was dark along that entire stretch. Bummer.)
I count a few highways I have traveled only as a passenger (the ones that come to mind are Italian autostrada around Milan, where I didn't rent a car but did take a taxi from one airport and a bus to the other). I also count highways I have walked, such as a segment of the I-80 business loop through Elko NV that was temporarily closed to vehicle traffic but not pedestrians, and also M-185 on Michigan's Mackinac Island which is closed to almost all motor traffic but I did the loop around the island on bike or on foot.
While I don't like driving at night, when forced to do so I'll take credit for the resulting mileage.
One direction is good enough for me, especially on roads far from home that I probably will never travel again.
Another issue that comes up is if you leave the highway at an interchange, and get back on at the same interchange. I try to minimize that (such as by not taking the same exit twice, if I re-travel a road), but I'm sure there are such instances in my count. FWIW, the Clinched Highway Mapping project, where I track my travels, doesn't recognize that distinction -- for example, if you "claim" a segment from the beginning to exit 48, then another on a separate trip from exit 48 to the end, you get credit for the entire highway, even if you skipped the pavement between the off-ramp and the on-ramp.
We've also discussed here at some length, in various places (and with a variety of opinions), what to do about highways ending at international borders, or entrances to military bases, where traveling that last mile can be a big hassle or worse.
I count front seat passenger for highway clinching purposes. I sometimes carpool with other roadgeeks while doing highway stuff, and I count new roads if either one of us is driving since the purpose of the trip was to go out and clinch new roads.
That said, I don't count roads as clinched when I was riding with my parents as a kid irrespective if I was traveling in the front seat or not.
I have no problem counting nighttime travel towards a clinch. I also don't feel that I have to have a camera handy. If I were starting out now, with the ease of taking photos with a mobile phone, I might feel differently, but I've never been comfortable using an SLR when driving because my first SLR was a fully-manual camera and the idea of setting the exposure and the like while driving struck me as unsafe. (My current DSLR has fully automatic modes, but I still just don't feel comfortable using it behind the wheel except in stopped traffic.)
I also feel that one direction is sufficient. I feel fairly strongly about that one, actually, because I think a "one-direction" principle makes it more realistic to explore multiple roads in a new area you may not visit all that often. For example, if I were to drive up to Prince Edward Island, I'd probably take I-95 up to Houlton in one direction to knock off that segment north of Bangor, but coming back I might take NB-1 down to St. Stephen so that I could visit the Fairmont Algonquin to play golf and so that I could re-clinch NB-1 (it's been extended to a new border crossing since the last time I was in the area). I'd rather explore more and see more, and if I felt that a "clinch" required travel in both directions I'd be less likely to do that.
Under the same principle, I don't consider it necessary to travel in all carriageways. I'm thinking of a road like the Garden State Parkway near Red Bank where it has "express" and "local" lanes. I'd consider one trip on either to be sufficient to check off that segment.
On the "passenger" issue, I have no problem with the idea of clinching as a passenger in a car or equivalent vehicle. I normally drive, but if I get tired or my back starts to hurt or the like I may ask Ms1995hoo to drive (that hasn't happened recently, however–the only time I asked her to drive my car in the past nine years came because I drank too much and felt I should not drive). In that situation I would be driving had I not asked her to do so. I don't know if I'd count it towards a clinch in the "too drunk to drive" scenario, but it's never been an issue.
Travel on a common carrier, such as a bus, would be a tougher call. I haven't had reason to consider it because I've never travelled on a common carrier like Greyhound, and I've never gone the complete length of a highway on a charter bus except for Green I-20 in Florence, South Carolina, on a high school trip. I think I might be more likely to count things like charter buses if I were abroad. For example, we visited St. Petersburg, Russia, on a Baltic Sea cruise a few years ago, and due to the very restrictive Russian visa policies we stuck to the shore excursions offered by the cruise line, the vast majority of which used charter buses (the cruise ship dock at the time was in an industrial area far from any sort of public transportation). Had the buses driven the full length of any highway, I'd probably have counted those as "clinches" simply because there was no realistic alternative.
I do not consider it a clinch if it's a situation where you were unaware of the concept. For example, I was born in Texas when my father was stationed there and we moved to Virginia when I was one year old because he was transferred to the Pentagon (and then discharged from the service a year later). I know from my parents telling me and from pictures they took that I made the trip from Texas to Virginia by car in the back seat of their Volvo, and I can easily figure out what route they took. But I would not count any segments travelled in that trip towards any clinches because I have no memory at all of the trip and because I was too young to have any concept of a road at all (much less a clinch). In the same vein, I know I've travelled I-35 between the Fort Hood area and San Antonio, but I would not count it because I have not been back there since we moved. (I might consider counting a part of I-35E near Denton that I travelled in 1990 on a high school trip, but again, that would depend on whether I'm inclined to allow for travel on a charter bus. The sticking point I have about a charter bus in domestic travel is that you have no control over the route. That is, if you're driving, you decide how to go; if you're a passenger in a car, you can suggest a route to the driver. On a bus, you can do neither.) I'm willing to count certain highways from when I was a kid once I was old enough to be interested in roads. I usually wanted to know what route Dad wanted to take, and he'd often ask me for directions. So I'll count that under the theory that I was involved in the routing–otherwise, there are some roads I'm unlikely ever to travel again that I wouldn't be able to count (primarily our 1986 trip around Ontario on which we ventured all the way up to Cochrane....can't ever see myself going up there again).
Drive/walk/bike it from one end to another end, or at least, be a passenger. I'm not all that picky about the criteria, because the experience is relative. Being one-tenth of a mile from the terminus is close enough. If you can see the end, the limit...good enough. No need to be pedantic, unless you want to.
Another interesting question...Do you count it as a clinch if a segment is detoured for construction or an accident?
Last August I was attempting to clinch I-81 in VA. A bad truck fire closed the south bound lanes at exit 156 and was detoured on ti US 11. Traffic was allowed to re-enter at the next interchange; 150. Even though I missed 6 miles I am still counting it as a clinch since my leaving I-81 was beyond my control. Next time I'm down that way regardless of what road I'm traveling, I'll make sure to pick up those six miles. But for now, I'm counting it as a clinch.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 18, 2013, 04:02:04 PM
I do not consider it a clinch if it's a situation where you were unaware of the concept. For example, I was born in Texas when my father was stationed there and we moved to Virginia when I was one year old because he was transferred to the Pentagon (and then discharged from the service a year later). I know from my parents telling me and from pictures they took that I made the trip from Texas to Virginia by car in the back seat of their Volvo, and I can easily figure out what route they took. But I would not count any segments travelled in that trip towards any clinches because I have no memory at all of the trip and because I was too young to have any concept of a road at all (much less a clinch). In the same vein, I know I've travelled I-35 between the Fort Hood area and San Antonio, but I would not count it because I have not been back there since we moved. (I might consider counting a part of I-35E near Denton that I travelled in 1990 on a high school trip, but again, that would depend on whether I'm inclined to allow for travel on a charter bus. The sticking point I have about a charter bus in domestic travel is that you have no control over the route. That is, if you're driving, you decide how to go; if you're a passenger in a car, you can suggest a route to the driver. On a bus, you can do neither.) I'm willing to count certain highways from when I was a kid once I was old enough to be interested in roads. I usually wanted to know what route Dad wanted to take, and he'd often ask me for directions. So I'll count that under the theory that I was involved in the routing—otherwise, there are some roads I'm unlikely ever to travel again that I wouldn't be able to count (primarily our 1986 trip around Ontario on which we ventured all the way up to Cochrane....can't ever see myself going up there again).
While I can be "pedantic" on crossing international borders (less so about military bases), I'm not that fussy about kiddie travel. I've long claimed the old US 66 west of Oklahoma City (much of it incorporated into modern-day business Interstates), based on being driven by my father on our family's pre-Interstates move from North Carolina to southern California when I was only about eight years old, even though I don't remember much of the trip other than being stuck in Oklahoma City for a few days when the old station wagon broke down. (I re-drove the route myself many years later.) But both of my parents passed away before I had a chance to ask them exactly how we got from North Carolina to Oklahoma. Ditto US 52 in Minnesota between Fergus Falls and Minneapolis, since I know we made the drive when I was less than five years old between home in Fergus Falls and my aunt in the Minneapolis area, and we had to have taken US 52 since that part of I-94 hadn't yet been completed and there were no other good alternate routes.
I'd count it if I were eight years old. I guess I kind of draw a line along the lines of "capable of awareness." At age one there's simply no way you're aware of it; at age eight, you can be (though maybe you weren't interested at the time). I was certainly aware of the "Cars Only/Cars-Trucks-Buses" split at Exit 9 on the New Jersey Turnpike by the time I was five years old, for example.
After I posted I grabbed the atlas where I mark off North American roads I've travelled. I have the roads from our move north from Texas marked in there. I simply wouldn't count them for "clinch" purposes, even if I know I travelled on them at some point.
This could have multiple definitions as it could mean travel the whole interstates in one shot in one direction. It could also mean in segments at different times, and it could mean shotgun in someone else's car. As long as you have seen the whole thing or experienced it, I would say count it.
Also, if you do not pass completely through an interchange, like food, gas, lodging etc. that counts as traveling through it. However, if you lets say exit I-81 at Pulaski, NY where there are two interchanges to make one whole one as to and from the north, and to and from the south are at two completely different locations. If you left I-81 there to continue, I would say that you did not clinch it.
I almost covered all of I-45 in Texas last September except for one small segment near Hobby Airport. However, I did cover all of I-37 Southbound in 97 as I only left it at Navigation Boulevard to check into my motel, but resumed from that particular exit so only a few hundred yards of pavement were lost. So I clinched the latter myself, but did not the former.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 18, 2013, 05:09:56 PM
This could have multiple definitions as it could mean travel the whole interstates in one shot in one direction. It could also mean in segments at different times, and it could mean shotgun in someone else's car. As long as you have seen the whole thing or experienced it, I would say count it.
....
I took it as a given that travel at different times gets aggregated into a clinch. I just assumed everyone follows that principle. Otherwise it's simply not reasonable in real life, as very few people have the time or ability (or desire!) to devote a single trip to, say, driving I-90 from Boston all the way to Seattle. Sure, there are some roads you'd easily clinch in a straight shot in part of a day (I-4 and I-66 are the first two that come to mind, though there are many, many others), but I think there has to be some rule of reasonableness.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 18, 2013, 05:30:28 PM
I took it as a given that travel at different times gets aggregated into a clinch. I just assumed everyone follows that principle. Otherwise it's simply not reasonable in real life, as very few people have the time or ability (or desire!) to devote a single trip to, say, driving I-90 from Boston all the way to Seattle. Sure, there are some roads you'd easily clinch in a straight shot in part of a day (I-4 and I-66 are the first two that come to mind, though there are many, many others), but I think there has to be some rule of reasonableness.
3200 miles without stopping for food, gas, or the bathroom. that sounds doable, but you'd basically need an RV that is stacked to the gills with food, gas cans, and toilets.
the closest I've ever done to a straight-shot clinch is I-40. Wilmington to Barstow in 2 1/2 days; the farthest away I got from the highway is maybe 3 miles. I slept in Little Rock (side street) and Flagstaff (motel).
Quote from: roadman65 on April 18, 2013, 05:09:56 PM
Also, if you do not pass completely through an interchange, like food, gas, lodging etc. that counts as traveling through it. However, if you lets say exit I-81 at Pulaski, NY where there are two interchanges to make one whole one as to and from the north, and to and from the south are at two completely different locations. If you left I-81 there to continue, I would say that you did not clinch it.
at one point, all I had left of I-80 was between I-15 and I-215 in Salt Lake City. oops, given that I have never lived particularly close to there.
Quote from: signalman on April 18, 2013, 04:39:03 PM
Another interesting question...Do you count it as a clinch if a segment is detoured for construction or an accident?
yep. that's the legal alignment at the time you are driving it. I had a detour of I-10 down US-61 near New Orleans once. counted just fine for me.
Quote from: formulanone on April 18, 2013, 04:06:28 PMNo need to be pedantic, unless you want to.
Indeed.
If I've traveled (conscience or not) along a road (regardless of method, be it bus*, car, bike, shanks pony, goat, etc) then it counts. It's a 'where have I been' thing for me, not a 'what have I seen/driven on' thing.
Seeing doesn't count in my book - literal travel only. Else I'd just watch a dashcam movie or go on streetview and count that. That's as pedantic as I want to be.
Reroutes and diversions count double - physical roadway and designations clinched separately. The roadway counts no matter what it was numbered when I did it, and the designation counts even if it deviates from the route I took when I traveled it. Every little helps!
*I'm struggling to think of 'clinchable' roads that I've traveled in a bus/coach, but not by other modes (I think there's a couple of miles in inner London), but I don't see how that is any lesser than the back of a car. Bicycle is similarly low, due to re-clinching stuff later in the car and/or using minor roads. Walking clinches come into their own in Central London - I have a good few miles there.
I take the least anal approach, since in many cases I won't pass that way again. For an interstate, if I exit for fuel and return at the same interchange, it counts. (I backtracked several miles on I-25 in Casper WY so I would be able to clinch that route). Anything I drove since my days of independent travel (about age 20) counts. Not the trip east with my parents when I was 4. If a route was improved along the same general alignment after I drove it, it counts. I can clinch a route decades after driving other portions of it. If it changes number during that time, it still counts. So, part of what I drove as U.S. 666 counts toward my clinch of U.S. 491.
QuoteFor an interstate, if I exit for fuel and return at the same interchange, it counts
I'm fairly liberal on that front- as long as I get on and off at the same interchange I count it. It gets a bit dicey in frontage road situations, and in that case I try to find the ramp behind the ramp I exited from.
As far as international borders or other major barriers, I'm okay with a sight clinch.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on April 18, 2013, 09:06:42 PMI can clinch a route decades after driving other portions of it. If it changes number during that time, it still counts. So, part of what I drove as U.S. 666 counts toward my clinch of U.S. 491.
I'm okay with counting old alignments. I have not done most of the modern US-6 in Iowa and several other places, instead having traced several old alignments, and I consider myself to have clinched US-6.
If I'm not driving, I consider it clinched with an asterisk; some of these (VA 44 & NC 6) have been decommissioned and thus I can never drive them as active routes. If a route is extended after I clinch it (NC 615, for example, was extended last week and I clinched it in July 2012) or partially closed (VA 156 & 33) I make a note of such but consider the route clinched at the time/as it was drivable. I'm not picky about directional clinching; if I've driven the entire route in general I count it clinched.
I'm pretty lenient. If I'm consciously aware that I was on the road, then it's clinched. When my orchestra took a 24-hour trip to Florida via charter bus, I was awake at the right times to know exactly what road we were on. If I go off an interstate and reenter it at the same interchange, no problem.
I'm fairly liberal when it comes to clinches.
Night driving still counts, as you can still see the road (hopefully) perfectly well, just maybe not the scenery. The vast majority of my clinches have been during daylight though, as part of day trips places.
I count being a passenger, because I feel if anything you get a better look at the road, because you can look around and watch things, without having to worry about other traffic or driving.
I definitely count buses and taxis and whatnot (though the only roads I have clinched under these criteria are a few in the Philadelphia area and DC when I took a bus down to DC last summer that also stopped in Philly. It was a double-decker bus and I was in the front row up top, glued to the front window the whole time.) because I can't help but be glued to the window when riding.
I don't care about opposing directions when it comes to official clinches - though I do like to drive highways in both directions to see different signs and experience different setups.
Finally, getting off and back on at the same interchange, or taking only one of split carriageways is close enough, because the mainline doesn't really get out of your view for a significant length. As mentioned up thread though, frontage roads would be a bit questionable, and partial interchanges definitely so.
If I have been on the road, it counts. Driving, as a passenger as an adult, as a passenger during a family vacation when I was a kid, on a band trip when I was in high school student, day or night, asleep or awake.
Only one direction of travel is needed for me to consider a road clinched. For I-64, I have driven every mile in both directions in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky and West Virginia. But I have only driven one direction in most of Missouri, and my mileage in Virginia varies. I've driven all of both ways from the WV state line to Richmond, but only eastbound from Richmond on to the terminus.
As for exits, if I get off and back on at the same interchange, it counts. If it's a partial exit and I have to go to another exit to re-enter, it does not count. This happened to me on I-70 in Ohio. I was traveling westbound and exited at Gratiot to go grab a county that was south of the interstate. I could not re-enter at that exit and had to go farther west to get back on. So I had to drive that missing segment in order to get a clinch.
I have to be on the route to clinch it. Detours don't count. I was on I-88 a couple of years ago and two segments (at Binghamton and near Oneonta) were closed due to flooding. I had to redrive those two segments I-88 to consider it clinched.
As for border crossings, military bases, etc., I consider it clinched if I drive as far as I legally can. Since I do not have a passport, I can't enter Canada. So when I was in Watertown a couple of years ago, I drove up I-81 all the way to the last exit before the border. When I finish I-81 between the Thruway and Binghamton, I will consider myself to have clinched it even though I didn't go all the way to the border.
If a road is re-routed, I don't consider it un-clenched. What counts for me is if I drive the road as it exists at the time I'm on it. For example, US 68 in Kentucky. Even though a new segment is now open, I don't consider that this event un-clinched it for me. However, if a road is extended, I need to drive the new segment to re-clinch it unless I have already been on that road before. I have US 48 clinched, but will have to drive the segment that is now under construction, once it's opened, or else I'll lose my clinch. However it will not be necessary for me to drive the portion of US 219 and US 33 that's already open once US 48 signs go up, since I've already driven that route.
My only definition is that I have seen the entire length of the aforementioned highway, which allows me to clinch state highways that aren't open to public vehicle traffic, such as VA 318 (Capitol Square in Richmond). It doesn't matter whether it's in one direction or both. I still have to experience the entire route somehow (whether I walk, drive, or ride in another vehicle such as a bus), so this definition tends to satisfy most people.
Case in point: If I get on a bus to Wilmington, Delaware from Richmond and it takes I-95 the entire way (that is, it actually uses the I-95 side of the Beltway and then I-95 through Baltimore, which I typically advise no one to do), and I stay awake for the entire trip, then I consider myself to have clinched I-95 in Maryland in the process. If I fall asleep before getting to Maryland and wake up in Delaware, then I haven't clinched or seen I-95 in that state. This is hypothetical, I clinched I-95 in Maryland a long time ago.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 18, 2013, 05:50:40 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 18, 2013, 05:30:28 PM
I took it as a given that travel at different times gets aggregated into a clinch. I just assumed everyone follows that principle. Otherwise it's simply not reasonable in real life, as very few people have the time or ability (or desire!) to devote a single trip to, say, driving I-90 from Boston all the way to Seattle. Sure, there are some roads you'd easily clinch in a straight shot in part of a day (I-4 and I-66 are the first two that come to mind, though there are many, many others), but I think there has to be some rule of reasonableness.
3200 miles without stopping for food, gas, or the bathroom. that sounds doable, but you'd basically need an RV that is stacked to the gills with food, gas cans, and toilets.
the closest I've ever done to a straight-shot clinch is I-40. Wilmington to Barstow in 2 1/2 days; the farthest away I got from the highway is maybe 3 miles. I slept in Little Rock (side street) and Flagstaff (motel).
If you stayed in Little Rock then you got more than 3 miles off the freeway.
Awesome discussion, everyone. Thanks so much for your insights. I like hearing all the different criteria.
Some of us are more strict than others. I like the "daytime hours" requirement and kinda wish I would have implemented that a long time ago, but it's too late now for me to go back and recalculate. It's not possible to be completely pedantic, although I kinda wish I could be. A few people mentioned the notion of getting off a highway at an interchange, re-entering the highway at the same interchange, and saying that it still counts as a clinch. I agree with that. Generally, if I can see the road between the exit and entrance ramps, that counts. (Although - I kinda wish I could still drive the entire road between the ramps at each interchange.)
When it comes to detours for a specific highway, I do not count that as a clinch.
When a highway changes alignments and takes on a new route, that generally results in an "un-clinch" and I'd have to go back and re-do it. The only problem with that is highways in all other parts of the country where I don't know about the re-alignments. (I wouldn't know what was un-clinched.) At least in Michigan, I generally have a better handle on which roads were re-aligned and can somewhat easily fix the un-clinches.
Someone mentioned M-185 in Michigan. Yep... one of the only (if not THE only) state highway in the U.S. that does not allow vehicular traffic. I've clinched that on a bicycle three times in my life. :)
For highways I traveled as a kid, I of course cannot count those a clinched because I was not behind the wheel. On the other hand, my criteria for clinching counties is not as strict. I don't have to be the driver to say that I've been in any given county. On my county page on Mob-Rule, I have two color codes: one for counties I visited before I was able to drive on my own, and one for counties I've been to since I had my own independent mobility.
That leads me to another question... what's more important to you... clinching highways or visiting different counties? For me I like to do both, but clinching highways for me takes precedence over adding new counties.
Quote from: bugo on April 19, 2013, 01:32:40 AM
If you stayed in Little Rock then you got more than 3 miles off the freeway.
"in" is probably not correct, then. I found a quiet rural exit on the west side of town, got off the connecting two-lane road onto a side street, and went to sleep. I was no more than 10 miles out, which - for the purpose of explaining a transcontinental journey - counts as "in Little Rock" well enough for me.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on April 19, 2013, 08:38:25 AMwhat's more important to you... clinching highways or visiting different counties?
both.
the only system I want to systematically clinch is all the two-digit interstates. I will skip random segments of two-lane routes in order to go grab counties. I think the only major east-west non-interstate highways I've clinched are US-6 and US-66 (and 66 includes a lot of only I-44 in Missouri), and I only have a handful of the major north-south ones (83, 85, 89, 91, 93, 95, 99, 101).
I primarily prefer county-clinching, because it gives me a little more variety, usually involving different types of roads.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on April 19, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
That leads me to another question... what's more important to you... clinching highways or visiting different counties?
Yes. :D
I would consider them equally-weighted, with perhaps a slight emphasis to counties.
In states where I already have all the counties clinched, I will turn my attention to clinching routes. For instance, when I went to Monticello, NY recently, I passed through states in which I had clinched all counties, so I tailored my route to clinch roads. (All of US 209 and US 44 in New York). I will increasingly have to do this in these states in order to have new roadgeeking experiences.
If I am taking a trip to entirely new territory, I will look to clinch routes and make side trips to visit new counties if necessary. For instance, when I drove back home from Oklahoma City, I clinched I-44 in Missouri. However, I planned the route to enable me to get a few nearby counties by exiting the interstate and driving into those counties.
If it's an area where I may not visit again (such as my trip out to OKC) I will think "counties first." That's why I have a gap in I-40 east of OKC, but I have a whole bunch of counties in eastern Oklahoma.
I favor roads. Daylight preferred but not required. I try to avoid getting off and then back on at interchanges but those are usually counted (though there are some situations where I wouldn't, such as I-81 at Pulaski, NY 17 west of Deposit, and I-81 at NY 12 is debatable). No restrictions on passenger travel, few on kiddie travel. I generally count busses, but there are exceptions from the school trip to DC due to poor visibility at night and being asleep for a good chunk of it.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on April 19, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
When a highway changes alignments and takes on a new route, that generally results in an "un-clinch" and I'd have to go back and re-do it. The only problem with that is highways in all other parts of the country where I don't know about the re-alignments. (I wouldn't know what was un-clinched.) At least in Michigan, I generally have a better handle on which roads were re-aligned and can somewhat easily fix the un-clinches.
One handy tool for tracking alignment changes is the Updates section of the Clinched Highway Mapping site, http://cmap.m-plex.com/docs/hwyupdates.php That list includes highway reroutings for all routes covered by CHM, since each highway system was added to the project (Interstates back to 2006, U.S. Highways in early 2009, and various dates for the other covered state and non-U.S. systems). The list includes some fairly minor realignments that all but the fussiest users will ignore, but you can make your own call on that.
What's "minor" for me? Bridge replacement realignments, usually. Other realigns within the right-of-way. Not if the route is moved to the other side of a river or mountain, or is switched to different streets or other roadways. Other situations are "I know it when I see it".
For example, I thought I had all of US 101 clinched, but then a few miles of the highway were moved from one side of a river to the other, so I'm counting that as a de-clinch. Since the relocation was in a part of northern California I rarely visit, it will be a long time if ever before I re-clinch. Grrr.
I cannot be as strict as some of you. Reason: I do not drive. I have tremors in my hands, which if I had an attack of those behind the wheel, would be bad.
That said: I count a road as clinched if I have been a passenger in thei vehicle or walked the route, AND this has occurred since I was 7 years old. If my mom drove an entire route when I was 2, it doesn't count, but the same route at age 10 does. The result is that all my listed clinches are interstate highways.
Quote from: oscar on April 19, 2013, 11:35:52 AMFor example, I thought I had all of US 101 clinched, but then a few miles of the highway were moved from one side of a river to the other, so I'm counting that as a de-clinch. Since the relocation was in a part of northern California I rarely visit, it will be a long time if ever before I re-clinch. Grrr.
which alignment is this? I don't remember any recent major 101 realignments.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 19, 2013, 11:45:36 AM
Quote from: oscar on April 19, 2013, 11:35:52 AMFor example, I thought I had all of US 101 clinched, but then a few miles of the highway were moved from one side of a river to the other, so I'm counting that as a de-clinch. Since the relocation was in a part of northern California I rarely visit, it will be a long time if ever before I re-clinch. Grrr.
which alignment is this? I don't remember any recent major 101 realignments.
See the November 2012 listings at http://cmap.m-plex.com/docs/hwyupdates.php?y=2012
Quote from: oscar on April 19, 2013, 12:04:01 PM
See the November 2012 listings at http://cmap.m-plex.com/docs/hwyupdates.php?y=2012
I assume it is this curve straightening?
http://goo.gl/maps/8MLkd
Given that the old road is no longer passable (literally decommissioned) I'd count that as clinched if you drove it pre-realignment.
What if a one-way pair is added to a route? I assume most people don't count the two directions separately, but what if you drove it in what's now the wrong direction?
QuoteThat leads me to another question... what's more important to you... clinching highways or visiting different counties? For me I like to do both, but clinching highways for me takes precedence over adding new counties.
Highways over counties- and like you my requirements for clinching a county are a lot less.
As far as realignments- I consider the route as it exists when I clinched it to be the entire route as long as the termini are the same.
Now, I say "I've clinched the entire state highway system in Washington" because as of December 2008 when I finished it, I had clinched every single route over its current alignment that was in the system as of December 2008. In the meantime, SR 397 has been extended. I still claim my clinch of the state despite having not driven that little stretch.
My rules: I have to have traveled on the highway. Passenger, driver, doesn't matter. I've never slept on a highway that's new to me, fortunately. (Even as a kid, I never took naps.)
Toll roads: I can clinch a connecting highway by stopping just short of the barrier, as long as the toll plaza is visible from where I stop. The Taconic Parkway, for example, would not qualify for this definition, so I did drive the last 2 miles. For international borders, military bases, etc., as long as the route ends at the plaza, I take the last U-turn before it. For 1-block routes (some of the Virginia 3xx) or for surface routes ending at complex intersections, I count it if I U-turn within sight of the end (and "within sight" = "I could get out and walk it if I really wanted to", not "I can see 25 miles from this mountaintop").
For me i count it as traveled if i go from end to end in a state. For example NJ route 90 i clinched since i did take it from the I-95 interchange (using all the available ramps too) in Philly to road end in NJ. I-295 i have driven end to end as well even as a passenger. I also count driving it at night, otherwise i would not be able to count driving the entire indiana toll road or chicago skyway. When a road splits like the NJTP i count the entire route except for that clinched, for example i have the mainline NJTP clinched except for the eastern spur. For intrastate routes, i have to see a END or something resembling an END sign and a Start Sign for it to count, unless i can prove it on a map that i traveled to the end point.
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2013, 06:27:10 PMFor international borders, military bases, etc., as long as the route ends at the plaza, I take the last U-turn before it.
I only very rarely get anal about this; and always to joke with someone. I noted to Kevin Trinkle (who has the entire AZ highway system done) the other day that I have several more feet of AZ-189 clinched than he does, because I actually used that road to cross into, and back from, Sonora.
NJ route 68 is one that has the end marker on Joint Base Dix-McGuire-Lakehurt at General Circle, prior to 9/11 you could clinch it, i clinched it pre and post via passenger/driving myself on base (i used to be in the USAF)
My modern policy would be the same as Steve Mountain's and just turn around as close to the plaza as legally possible.
Here is a good question, what if the route gets majorly changed, as in instead of ending at the location it does now, I.E. I-195 In NJ at I-295 (exit 60), it ends several miles later, and possibly in another state. Would you have to re-clinch that section now that it is I-195 instead of I-295/95 in the case of I-195 in NJ taking over two other interstate routes.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 20, 2013, 09:04:52 AM
Here is a good question, what if the route gets majorly changed, as in instead of ending at the location it does now, I.E. I-195 In NJ at I-295 (exit 60), it ends several miles later, and possibly in another state. Would you have to re-clinch that section now that it is I-195 instead of I-295/95 in the case of I-195 in NJ taking over two other interstate routes.
Do county counters have to revisit a county if it gets renamed?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 19, 2013, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2013, 06:27:10 PMFor international borders, military bases, etc., as long as the route ends at the plaza, I take the last U-turn before it.
I only very rarely get anal about this; and always to joke with someone. I noted to Kevin Trinkle (who has the entire AZ highway system done) the other day that I have several more feet of AZ-189 clinched than he does, because I actually used that road to cross into, and back from, Sonora.
I hope you're either not the magnet for secondary searches at the border that I seem to be, or that you have the patience to tolerate them.
That doesn't stop me from insisting on a border crossing *for me* to count as clinched a highway that ends at the border. But I do like the highways that end one or more intersections short of the border, such as I-35 in Texas and I-19 in Arizona.
I don't insist on actually crossing for borders and military bases etc. Last point to turn off, provided you can see the US border post from that point (made an exception for NY 384, as the border post is shrouded by trees until you're right on top of it). Bridges I insist on crossing (may make an exception for NY 182 at the Nexus-only Whirlpool crossing).
Quote from: NE2 on April 20, 2013, 09:40:06 AM
Do county counters have to revisit a county if it gets renamed?
If mob-rule only counts it once (Dade -> Miami-Dade), then I suppose "no" is the definitive answer.
But it gives one the chance to re-photograph the county line sign...
Something I thought of this afternoon: To me either a "business" or "bypass" route, or any combination thereof, counts towards a clinch except for Green Interstates (which I consider separate routes). So, for example, if I hadn't already clinched US-29 in Virginia, and if I were on my way south and needed to stop for gas in Gretna, taking Business 29 all the way through would count towards the clinch.
Yeah I consider the business route and the mainline to be two distinct routes, so I don't say "US 30 Business is US 30," but I also don't say "I haven't clinched x U.S. Route until I've clinched all bannered routes."
In situations where the mainline divides into banner routes (e.g. business/bypass) or suffixed routes, I follow whichever one the mileposts for the mainline follow - for instance, I set out to clinch Oklahoma 3 last July and took 3E to count the clinch, considering 3W to be a separate route. I guess some could argue that I can't clinch Oklahoma 3 without clinching 3E and 3W, but whatever.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2013, 06:29:39 PM
Something I thought of this afternoon: To me either a "business" or "bypass" route, or any combination thereof, counts towards a clinch except for Green Interstates (which I consider separate routes). So, for example, if I hadn't already clinched US-29 in Virginia, and if I were on my way south and needed to stop for gas in Gretna, taking Business 29 all the way through would count towards the clinch.
In my youth, I distinctly remember a lot of US routes being signed as both Business and By-Pass (most banners include the hyphen, although I don't know why), especially in North Carolina.
Seems that's not really the case anymore. One route goes bannerless, and the other has either a Business or By-Pass banner. For me, it's the bannerless route that counts as the through route for a clinch.
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to how Kentucky signs its split routes. Along the US 127 corridor, the bannerless route seems to go through town and the bypass route gets a By-Pass banner. However, other places have the old route signed as Business.
What about those highways in your state or region. Would most of you count them, as you could easily travel them, and most likely did parts of them in many different days you live in the area.
I myself have traveled the whole length of US 92 in Florida, but not in one shot. I also have been on all parts of US 192 and I-4. Then you have the small designations in the Orlando area, like FL 434, FL 436, etc. I would say I clinched them, but for the purpose of a road trip, I would say that I did not.
Someone mentioned a bus trip before, and I myself have ridden US 25 from I-26 near Hendersonville, NC to Augusta, GA as a Greyhound passenger, so I would say being I saw the road and its signs that I clinched that for sure.
Then, like it was pointed out earlier, you cannot really drive a whole interstate in one shot either, unless you have a trip especially between two sides of the country. If we did cover them in sections, like that is the only way I will be able to clinch Texas interstates, and made it to see all of its mileage, then it counts.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2013, 08:27:29 PM
Then, like it was pointed out earlier, you cannot really drive a whole interstate in one shot either, unless you have a trip especially between two sides of the country. If we did cover them in sections, like that is the only way I will be able to clinch Texas interstates, and made it to see all of its mileage, then it counts.
Heck, even the short I-66, I never did in a single trip, since I live along the route, and had no occasion to go directly from downtown DC at its east end to Strasburg VA at its west end, or vice versa.
The longest Interstate I might've clinched in a single (multi-day) trip is I-44. Longer Interstates were clinched in two or more overlapping trips.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2013, 07:23:32 PM
In my youth, I distinctly remember a lot of US routes being signed as both Business and By-Pass (most banners include the hyphen, although I don't know why), especially in North Carolina.
It's still that way in NC, with more than 15 such splits.
Quote from: corco on April 20, 2013, 06:37:23 PM
Yeah I consider the business route and the mainline to be two distinct routes, so I don't say "US 30 Business is US 30," but I also don't say "I haven't clinched x U.S. Route until I've clinched all bannered routes."
In situations where the mainline divides into banner routes (e.g. business/bypass) or suffixed routes, I follow whichever one the mileposts for the mainline follow - for instance, I set out to clinch Oklahoma 3 last July and took 3E to count the clinch, considering 3W to be a separate route. I guess some could argue that I can't clinch Oklahoma 3 without clinching 3E and 3W, but whatever.
I can't clinch I-10 by following Business I-10 in Texas, so why can I clinch US 11 by following Business US 11 in Virginia? I follow Bypass and unbannered routes only. Business routes are clinched separately. As for the case of OK 3, you have clinched both OK 3 and OK 3E, but not yet OK 3W.
I think to me the difference is that in the case of US or state routes, often the business route WAS the mainline and the bypass was added later, whereas in most places with the Interstates that wasn't the case (with some exceptions like Winston-Salem or Spartanburg). I remember quite well when the current US-29 Business through Warrenton, VA, was the main line, for example (the bypass opened in the mid-1980s). So for obvious reasons I'd have counted that as a clinch had I travelled all of US-29 when that was the thru route. I would not then consider it "unclinched" when they built the bypass later (in that case it doesn't matter, of course, since I've driven both routes hundreds of times). So if I don't consider it "unclinched," by extension I view other business routes as counting as a part of US-29 as well. Sometimes it makes little difference if I've used both routes on a regular basis (Charlottesville being the prime example for me).
It's tough to set forth a set of rules because often I exercise situation-specific judgment in whether something counts.
With regards to some of AJ's comments, though, I have no restrictions as to what kind of vehicle must be used or who must be driving. Hell, I will even count a segment of road as clinched if I ride a train line along it where there is a shared ROW. I consider MA 3 across Longfellow Bridge clinched because I rode the red line "T" over it, and I consider most of Allen Rd in Toronto clinched because I rode the subway through the median.
As for gaps due to permanent legal restriction (military gate, international border, etc.), I will accept a fudging of things so long as the actual end of the road is clearly visible from where I turned off or turned around. With regards to detours, I usually don't count them for fudging unless the detour is fairly short. In the event of a "bridge out" sort of scenario, I will drive as far as I can past the "local traffic only" sign and turn around at the actual point of closure on both sides and call it good. If for whatever reason I did not do that then it is not good.
I also set forth no age restrictions. When I was 2 years old, my parents took me on a trip to Annapolis. I do not remember this trip at all. But I can looking at a map logically assume that they must have taken I-97 to get there, so I consider I-97 clinched even though I have not been on it since.
To me, it doesn't matter if you're the driver or passenger; you just have to be on the entire length of highway to clinch it. And yes, hotel/gas stops do count.
Which is why I consider the Route 66 road trip a clinch, even though I was only five years old at the time, and almost half of the road was completely gone by the time I graduated high school!
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2013, 07:54:30 PM
I also set forth no age restrictions. When I was 2 years old, my parents took me on a trip to Annapolis. I do not remember this trip at all. But I can looking at a map logically assume that they must have taken I-97 to get there, so I consider I-97 clinched even though I have not been on it since.
I don't think I-97 was complete until, coincidentally enough, about '97. But you can take a quick trip to Baltimore and have it clinched northbound, southbound, and every other conceivable way within an hour or so.
There were some previous comments about daylight–I'd almost always rather drive at night. There are some highways, like the Pennsylvania Turnpike, that take on a completely different character at night. The traffic volume is a fraction of the daytime amount, the tunnels are more mysterious, reflectorized signs slowly creep up on you... It was even better when there was more button copy standing.
Funny, I used to prefer driving at night, but I've found that my desire to drive longer distances at night seems to decline every year. 20 years ago I wouldn't hesitate to get in the car at 11:30 PM and drive two hours from Charlottesville to Fairfax. Nowadays I won't even consider it–due in no small part to my disastrous attempt to drive home from Charlottesville after a 2003 night football game. I left Charlottesville at 12:30 AM and nearly fell asleep at the wheel multiple times on I-95. I made it home without crashing, though I'm still not sure how.
I really like night driving on urban and suburban freeways. Traffic is usually fairly light, and I love passing through the city lights, but otherwise I try to avoid driving at night when traveling in unfamiliar areas.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2013, 07:54:30 PMIn the event of a "bridge out" sort of scenario, I will drive as far as I can past the "local traffic only" sign and turn around at the actual point of closure on both sides and call it good.
That's what I did with US 131 a few years ago. There was a bridge out for replacement. I drove all the way to the spot where I could go no farther, lest I plunge into a river, then used some local roads to detour. When I got back to US 131, I drove back to the other end of the missing bridge. Therefore I consider it a clinch.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 22, 2013, 09:41:31 PMI'd almost always rather drive at night.
Not me, for three reasons. You can see more scenery in the daylight, it's easier to take sign and road photos in the daylight, and there's less chance of hitting a deer.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2013, 09:47:52 PM
Funny, I used to prefer driving at night, but I've found that my desire to drive longer distances at night seems to decline every year.
Maybe this is somewhat age related. I've had some other people tell me that they liked night driving less as years went on.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2013, 09:47:52 PM
I left Charlottesville at 12:30 AM and nearly fell asleep at the wheel multiple times on I-95. I made it home without crashing, though I'm still not sure how.
But definitely, by "night driving", I
don't mean drowsy driving. I've been in that position of needing to get somewhere in a hurry and pressing on through sleepiness, and it's one of the most loathsome experiences I've had behind the wheel.
And as to clinching, my main interest is experiencing the variety of landscapes, control cities on signs, DOT peculiarities, etc. that a highway offers. So I'm probably less stringent than others. I consider I-80 clinched from the GWB to San Francisco, although I've never not stopped at Iowa 80, so I've never the 3/10 mile from off-ramp to on-ramp at Exit 284.
QuoteMaybe this is somewhat age related. I've had some other people tell me that they liked night driving less as years went on.
I'm 24 and I already hate driving at night- probably have since I was 21 or so. I've had enough close calls with deer at night (and witnessed a couple bad collisions) that it's just not worth it. And then if I'm in a city I've never been in before or am unfamiliar with it's a lot harder to navigate. I was driving in a poorly lit part of Salt Lake a couple weekends ago with no idea where I was going and a couple of times if a cop would have seen me I'm sure I would have been pulled over on suspicion of drunk driving (I was stone sober). I'm kind of a night person too- I'm substantially more alert when I'm driving at 1:00 AM than at 1:00 PM.
I guess I don't mind freeway driving at night if it's not a wildlife situation because the lack of traffic is nice and as I said I'm more focused and can crank on the tunes and drive but off the freeway or in deer prone freeway areas (like eastern Colorado/western Kansas)...fuck that.
I count clinching as having been on all of a highway, whether it's the entire highway or through a certain jurisdiction, regardless of being a driver or passenger.
Age may well have something to do with night driving. Headlight glare bothers me a lot more than it did when I was in my 20s. That's especially true if I've already driven all day. If we drive down I-95 to Florida, for example, we'll reach Jacksonville in early evening and the headlight glare becomes particularly fatiguing because Florida has a narrow median on I-95 that doesn't shield you from the oncoming lights.
I also find it harder to find the energy to stay up very late at night even when I'm not driving. I used to go to bed at 2:00 AM when I was in my 20s. Nowadays I seldom make it to midnight. Of course, I get up earlier in the morning as well and that's surely no small factor.
Deer are a major issue in my mind on rural two-lane roads. Indeed if we do come back from Charlottesville or the mountains after sunset I'll take a different route sometimes out of concern about deer.
Incidentally, in local DC-area night driving the thing that bugs me most is the cars being driven without headlights. When we go to a hockey game I usually see at least one car, often more, being driven with no headlights (often no parking lights either) on I-395 on our way home around 10 PM. That can be some scary stuff. Nearly saw a massive wreck caused by such a driver last Thursday night.
Anyway, to return to the topic of clinching.....if you're driving the car, then arguably night driving requires more attention than daytime driving, so I can't imagine why one wouldn't count it. I can understand why a stickler wouldn't count a clinch if you spend the time asleep as a passenger, though.
QuoteAnyway, to return to the topic of clinching.....if you're driving the car, then arguably night driving requires more attention than daytime driving, so I can't imagine why one wouldn't count it. I can understand why a stickler wouldn't count a clinch if you spend the time asleep as a passenger, though.
Because for me clinching a highway is about the experience of having travelled through the surrounding area- it's about seeing the scenery and the little towns and quirky architecture and weird looking people on the side of the road, not just being in a vehicle with some number of wheels on its surface. It's a lot harder to absorb all that at night when you can't see more than 8 feet off the road and driving simply involves constantly scanning the shoulders for deer.
Quote from: corco on April 23, 2013, 09:36:24 AM
QuoteAnyway, to return to the topic of clinching.....if you're driving the car, then arguably night driving requires more attention than daytime driving, so I can't imagine why one wouldn't count it. I can understand why a stickler wouldn't count a clinch if you spend the time asleep as a passenger, though.
Because for me clinching a highway is about the experience of having travelled through the surrounding area- it's about seeing the scenery and the little towns and quirky architecture and weird looking people on the side of the road, not just being in a vehicle with some number of wheels on its surface. It's a lot harder to absorb all that at night when you can't see more than 8 feet off the road and driving simply involves constantly scanning the shoulders for deer.
Fair enough, and no doubt part of that is also a function of where one lives. If you live in the East Coast Megalopolis you can see a lot more along the road at night than you can in Montana.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 22, 2013, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2013, 07:54:30 PM
I also set forth no age restrictions. When I was 2 years old, my parents took me on a trip to Annapolis. I do not remember this trip at all. But I can looking at a map logically assume that they must have taken I-97 to get there, so I consider I-97 clinched even though I have not been on it since.
I don't think I-97 was complete until, coincidentally enough, about '97. But you can take a quick trip to Baltimore and have it clinched northbound, southbound, and every other conceivable way within an hour or so.
There were some previous comments about daylight–I'd almost always rather drive at night. There are some highways, like the Pennsylvania Turnpike, that take on a completely different character at night. The traffic volume is a fraction of the daytime amount, the tunnels are more mysterious, reflectorized signs slowly creep up on you... It was even better when there was more button copy standing.
Some boring highways become more interesting at night because the lack of scenery becomes irrelevant. It's interesting on I-81 - the reflective signs on bridges are visible long before the bridge, so they look like they're hovering. Cars crossing bridges often look like they're crossing the interstate.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
That's what I did with US 131 a few years ago. There was a bridge out for replacement. I drove all the way to the spot where I could go no farther, lest I plunge into a river, then used some local roads to detour. When I got back to US 131, I drove back to the other end of the missing bridge. Therefore I consider it a clinch.
H.B. - was that the section of U.S. 131 that's near Cadillac (northern Michigan)? My guess is probably yes, but I was just curious. I remember when that bridge was out for several months while MDOT was reconstructing it.
Regarding nighttime driving, I strongly dislike it - especially when it's a relatively long distance after dark (and by "relatively long distance", I mean "anything beyond local driving").
I started disliking nighttime driving when I was only 20 years old. I had an occasion when I fell asleep at the wheel at night and was involved in a minor accident due to that (just the vehicle I was driving - no injuries or worse). I had no idea how tired I was. For a week weeks/months thereafter, I was actually afraid of driving at night. Since then, I have obviously gotten past my fear of driving at night. Right now it's just a dislike due to not being able to see the scenery and a slight concern about hitting deer.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on April 23, 2013, 12:21:35 PM
H.B. - was that the section of U.S. 131 that's near Cadillac (northern Michigan)? My guess is probably yes, but I was just curious. I remember when that bridge was out for several months while MDOT was reconstructing it.
Yep. That was it.
I like night driving for a road I've done dozens of times before - especially to leave Southern California. about the only time you can pass through LA unimpeded is if you leave San Diego at midnight.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on April 23, 2013, 12:25:51 PM
Regarding nighttime driving, I strongly dislike it - especially when it's a relatively long distance after dark (and by "relatively long distance", I mean "anything beyond local driving").
I started disliking nighttime driving when I was only 20 years old. I had an occasion when I fell asleep at the wheel at night and was involved in a minor accident due to that (just the vehicle I was driving - no injuries or worse). I had no idea how tired I was. For a week weeks/months thereafter, I was actually afraid of driving at night. Since then, I have obviously gotten past my fear of driving at night. Right now it's just a dislike due to not being able to see the scenery and a slight concern about hitting deer.
My dislike of night driving is unrelated to fatigue -- it applies in the winter when it gets dark at 5 or 6pm, well before my normal bedtime. It's more due to weak night vision. While I'm relatively comfortable driving an Interstate at night, or any other road I'm really familiar with, others I try hard to do only in the daytime, and sometimes for that reason have pulled over for the night in a place I hadn't planned for an overnight stop.
I worry less about nighttime wildlife collisions than perhaps I should. FWIW, my most serious wildlife collisions ($1000 in front-end damage from a ph**king pheasant walking across a Nebraska highway, and a $600 dent in my hood from a disoriented old crow in Idaho) were both in broad daylight.
QuoteFWIW, my most serious wildlife collisions ($1000 in front-end damage from a ph**king pheasant walking across a Nebraska highway, and a $600 dent in my hood from a disoriented old crow in Idaho) were both in broad daylight.
Pheasants are absurd and I hate those things. I very nearly caused a ton of damage to a rental car in South Dakota a couple years back by almost hitting one- I was able to swerve mostly out of the way in time and just kind of grazed it, leaving a mark on the car but it was small enough that nobody noticed- if I'd have hit one head on that would've been really bad.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 22, 2013, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2013, 07:54:30 PM
I also set forth no age restrictions. When I was 2 years old, my parents took me on a trip to Annapolis. I do not remember this trip at all. But I can looking at a map logically assume that they must have taken I-97 to get there, so I consider I-97 clinched even though I have not been on it since.
I don't think I-97 was complete until, coincidentally enough, about '97. But you can take a quick trip to Baltimore and have it clinched northbound, southbound, and every other conceivable way within an hour or so.
Huh. You're right. Well, so much for that assumption. My parents must have taken MD 2 instead. Recalibrating clinch log...
I had no idea I-97 was so new! But then, in my neck of the woods, every freeway of significance was around for many years before I was, so naturally I tend to assume...
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2013, 07:57:47 AM
Age may well have something to do with night driving. Headlight glare bothers me a lot more than it did when I was in my 20s. That's especially true if I've already driven all day.
I agree, as I've also found night driving to be be more visually straining as I've gotten older, and particularly so if my trip began in daylight. However, I like to tell myself (and perhaps accurately so) that it's not due to my age, but rather the fact that there is simply more glaring light these days than there used to be. Headlights have certainly gotten brighter, most traffic signals are LED now, and there are those ghastly LED billboards around now too. I'm convinced that if you had a time machine and jumped back a mere 15 years into the past, you'd immediately be struck by how much darker the nighttime was, even in populated areas.
It's also possible that I'm just getting old.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2013, 07:57:47 AM
Deer are a major issue in my mind on rural two-lane roads. Indeed if we do come back from Charlottesville or the mountains after sunset I'll take a different route sometimes out of concern about deer.
Although I strive to always be aware and cautious of deer, I've never found them to approach any greatly hazardous level, and there certainly are no shortage of them in the areas I've lived.
I worry more about deer on interstates and freeways than rural two-lane roads, especially in this area, because the two-lanes require driving at slower speeds.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 23, 2013, 11:43:51 PM
I worry more about deer on interstates and freeways than rural two-lane roads, especially in this area, because the two-lanes require driving at slower speeds.
I wouldn't be surprised if one's outlook on that sort of thing is also a locally-specific issue, as around here I don't worry much about deer on Interstates or freeways because said roads are generally large enough, and often (certainly not always) coupled with sound walls, such that there aren't a lot of deer crossing them. That's not to say it never happens, of course; last May on a relatively rural segment of I-66 (between Broad Run and the exit for The Plains, for those who know the road) I saw a deer on the shoulder seemingly waiting for a break in traffic to cross the highway. I worry about them a lot more on the two-lane roads because the trees generally come up a lot closer to the highway and thus often make it harder to see the deer until the last second.
I'm very glad there are no moose around here. We had a near-miss with a huge moose in northern Ontario (near Cochrane) in August 1986 (riding in a 1982 Honda Accord on a gravel road late at night after returning from Moosonee and Moose Factory). I'd be quite happy never to see another moose out a car window.