http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8756414318/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8710894837/in/photostream
Above are some examples of modern day signs with white backrounds that are still out in the field being used. The second photo link has the sign to the left of the roadway being used as an actual guide sign. Most likely in the second photo the MUTCD is not being followed (like with the JUNCTION sign in the foreground) because it acts more as a traffic control sign than a guide sign.
In Florida, we are using them quite frequently like being done in the first link photo in the past few years especially with shield assemblies. I was wondering the other such cases being used around, if any, that are being designed or have been created in modern times.
Chickasha, OK has all of its city limit signs in black on white. And its mastarm guidesigns went from mixed case white on green, to all-caps black on white :ded:
Exiting the Outer Loop of I-495 in Virginia at Gallows Road (old Exit 7; I think it's now 51), there's a new (within the past year) black-on-white Clearview guide sign with arrows. Looks like someone just utterly messed up. I'm headed that way this afternoon and will try to get a picture if traffic permits.
If I understand correctly, the justification for using black-on-white in these situations is that the signs themselves are technically classified as lane use signs (a subset of regulatory signs) rather than guide signs.
In other words, the signs aren't telling you which way to go for which route, but rather where you HAVE to go from each lane.
Texas is full of them.
Examples:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.okroads.com%2F031605%2Fi35exit498b_01.JPG&hash=ab58de4350fd79aacc4ac390d66127d9053ee27a)
(from okroads)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F3%2F39%2FCamino_Colombia_Toll_Scheduke.jpg&hash=14266f31b958b7994e11fd1feac54a222a27845c)
(from wikipedia)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3013%2F2594519700_7e80979bf5_z.jpg&hash=c4ff13fc7e6eea5d4fa706d7e512d135fb499dd0)
(from flickr) (egad!)
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 20, 2013, 07:53:42 AM
Exiting the Outer Loop of I-495 in Virginia at Gallows Road (old Exit 7; I think it's now 51), there's a new (within the past year) black-on-white Clearview guide sign with arrows. Looks like someone just utterly messed up. I'm headed that way this afternoon and will try to get a picture if traffic permits.
Meeting was cancelled, so maybe later this week. The sign I'm describing is not one telling you which lane to use–it's one with the names of the intersecting streets with arrows saying which way to go for each. Should be white-on-green, in other words.
Because trucks are banned from the 1990's section of CA-85, Caltrans put up big white signs on northbound US 101 in south San Jose and CA-17 in Los Gatos denoting the restriction.
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images101/us-101_nb_exit_377a_14.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images017/ca-017_nb_exit_022_01.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images017/ca-017_sb_exit_022_03.jpg)
Caltrans posted a new white/black elevation sign on Angeles Crest Highway at Cloudburst Summit. It replaced a standard green/black sign.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scvresources.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2FDSCN7137.jpg&hash=ec1fac13696f8a0b40e648000f1dfa208dd8d6b6)
Town line signs on Massachusetts secondary state routes (often referred to as "bookleaf" signs) are black on white. Directional signs on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket are also black on white, with teal top and bottom borders.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8755365489/
Here are some more common signs around Florida. Notice the elongated FL 61 shield that is the same size as the US shields for US 27 and US 90 with their borders. Some of the newer assemblies have a FL Route shield with a white back round. In other words white on white.
Quote from: roadman on May 21, 2013, 12:56:03 PM
Town line signs on Massachusetts secondary state routes (often referred to as "bookleaf" signs) are black on white. Directional signs on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket are also black on white, with teal top and bottom borders.
are any of those new? I saw a bunch of them this weekend and they all appeared to be repaints of ancient gantries.
also found a porcelain sign dating to the 1910s - possibly the oldest sign in Mass? blue with white text!
Aren't these the "bookleaf" signs? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scituate_ma_entering_sign.jpg
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama090/us-090_098t_eb_app_us-098_02.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama090/us-090_098t_eb_app_us-098_02.jpg)
Sign posted in 2003 for the Bankhead Tunnel. The sign in the opposite direction displays "US 98" in text.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 20, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
If I understand correctly, the justification for using black-on-white in these situations is that the signs themselves are technically classified as lane use signs (a subset of regulatory signs) rather than guide signs.
In other words, the signs aren't telling you which way to go for which route, but rather where you HAVE to go from each lane.
Especially seeing that last example, posted by Alex, I wonder if there's MUTCD guidance recommending white backgrounds for road use restrictions.
Quote from: kphoger on May 21, 2013, 09:00:06 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 20, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
If I understand correctly, the justification for using black-on-white in these situations is that the signs themselves are technically classified as lane use signs (a subset of regulatory signs) rather than guide signs.
In other words, the signs aren't telling you which way to go for which route, but rather where you HAVE to go from each lane.
Especially seeing that last example, posted by Alex, I wonder if there's MUTCD guidance recommending white backgrounds for road use restrictions.
Based on the fact that regulatory signs are black-on-white, logically it would make sense. A quick flip through the 2009 MUTCD doesn't reveal any actual verbiage towards or against that though.
For road use restrictions, black on white is certainly appropriate...it is a regulatory message, which the white on black scheme covers.
The lane use signs at the beginning of the thread could go either way. The combo shield/banner signs should be white on green and not black on white--that is specified as a MUTCD standard.
Quote from: NE2 on May 21, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
Aren't these the "bookleaf" signs? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scituate_ma_entering_sign.jpg
Yes indeed.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 20, 2013, 07:53:42 AM
Exiting the Outer Loop of I-495 in Virginia at Gallows Road (old Exit 7; I think it's now 51), there's a new (within the past year) black-on-white Clearview guide sign with arrows. Looks like someone just utterly messed up. I'm headed that way this afternoon and will try to get a picture if traffic permits.
I'm a few weeks late in getting this picture. Nice day out today, so I put the top down and took a longer route and made a point of getting a picture of this monstrosity.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FGallowswhitesign_zps93be88eb.jpg&hash=529536fb172a20a43d7be483424cf75f17aecf78)
http://goo.gl/maps/FfYn0 --- Especially odd, since the prior sign exiting I-495 was of the normal LGS white-on-green variety, sans directional banners.
Quote from: dfnva on June 04, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/FfYn0 --- Especially odd, since the prior sign exiting I-495 was of the normal LGS white-on-green variety, sans directional banners.
Is it just me, or is there no large white sign in that street view?
Quote from: kphoger on June 04, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
Quote from: dfnva on June 04, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/FfYn0 --- Especially odd, since the prior sign exiting I-495 was of the normal LGS white-on-green variety, sans directional banners.
Is it just me, or is there no large white sign in that street view?
The white sign I posted is new within the past year. As the Street View shows, the sign was standard colors until it was replaced during the recent construction project.
Ah, thank you. I didn't know dfnva's post was related to yours. I assumed he was linking to a view of a white sign that at some point had been a green sign.
Located on Alligator Alley:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6165%2F6214281663_2ca312d836_z.jpg&hash=8380ab050ce773167d090f9ec22f343673a359dc)
In Texas, there are several US 380 TRUCK ROUTE signs that are black and white around Denton. My thought is that they are black and white because the truck route is a regulatory thing, as thru trucks are prohibited on US 380 in Denton.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.224454,-97.172045&spn=0.000018,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.224197,-97.171959&panoid=ILr4uovl7tK8cw-_6xHSSw&cbp=12,4.26,,1,0 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.224454,-97.172045&spn=0.000018,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.224197,-97.171959&panoid=ILr4uovl7tK8cw-_6xHSSw&cbp=12,4.26,,1,0)
There is one that is green/white. It is newer, and was put up by the contractor when the NB I-35E LOOP 288 exit was relocated several years ago.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.173735,-97.090175&spn=0.000009,0.006266&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=33.173735,-97.090175&panoid=_960dklqzaB8Ri-4ksqmXA&cbp=12,359.89,,0,0 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.173735,-97.090175&spn=0.000009,0.006266&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=33.173735,-97.090175&panoid=_960dklqzaB8Ri-4ksqmXA&cbp=12,359.89,,0,0)
Also, there are these hazardous cargo route signs around Dallas. Again, black and white due to being regulatory.
(notice the orange SPEED LIMIT sign in frame also.)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=32.934046,-96.902096&spn=0.000036,0.025063&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.933855,-96.902074&panoid=9kIJWKjlo03RYc8Ssz_A2Q&cbp=12,197.25,,0,12.7 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=32.934046,-96.902096&spn=0.000036,0.025063&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.933855,-96.902074&panoid=9kIJWKjlo03RYc8Ssz_A2Q&cbp=12,197.25,,0,12.7)
Then there's one in Gainesville TX on California St. The city took a new clearview TxDot guide sign, and resheeted it white, and put their own text on it. I tried to upload the pic to photobucket, but it's not appearing in my library. Guess I'll have to try later.
Quote from: Brian556 on June 05, 2013, 12:47:34 AM
Then there's one in Gainesville TX on California St. The city took a new clearview TxDot guide sign, and resheeted it white, and put their own text on it. I tried to upload the pic to photobucket, but it's not appearing in my library. Guess I'll have to try later.
Where is it on California Street? If you're unable to get the picture, I'll be there in a couple of months.
(FWIW, I've had trouble getting a picture to show up in my library before. Logging out and trying later, it was magically there.)
Quote from: kphoger on June 04, 2013, 10:40:32 PM
Ah, thank you. I didn't know dfnva's post was related to yours. I assumed he was linking to a view of a white sign that at some point had been a green sign.
I see. Yeah, if you click his link, it gives you a view of the same ramp where I took my picture and you can see the sign that used to be located on the left there. My picture is a bit grainy and with some windshield glare, but what can you do.....I didn't want to come to a complete stop on an exit ramp coming off the Beltway, and I didn't want to hold my phone up above the top of the windshield because then I couldn't see whether I had the sign in the picture.
The hospital "H" is in a better location on the new sign (the main entrance and the emergency room are at the next intersection if you bear right), but it's maybe odd that they omitted the arrow associated with that sign.
QuoteWhere is it on California Street? If you're unable to get the picture, I'll be there in a couple of months.
Westbound, between the center of town and I-35.
Quote from: Brian556 on June 05, 2013, 10:28:37 AM
QuoteWhere is it on California Street? If you're unable to get the picture, I'll be there in a couple of months.
Westbound, between the center of town and I-35.
Cool. I'll probably be having lunch at that Braum's on August 3.
PS, do I plan trips in too much detail? :sombrero:
QuotePS, do I plan trips in too much detail?
Not unless you plan what time you will be having a bowel movement.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 05, 2013, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 04, 2013, 10:40:32 PM
Ah, thank you. I didn't know dfnva's post was related to yours. I assumed he was linking to a view of a white sign that at some point had been a green sign.
I see. Yeah, if you click his link, it gives you a view of the same ramp where I took my picture and you can see the sign that used to be located on the left there. My picture is a bit grainy and with some windshield glare, but what can you do.....I didn't want to come to a complete stop on an exit ramp coming off the Beltway, and I didn't want to hold my phone up above the top of the windshield because then I couldn't see whether I had the sign in the picture.
The hospital "H" is in a better location on the new sign (the main entrance and the emergency room are at the next intersection if you bear right), but it's maybe odd that they omitted the arrow associated with that sign.
Oh, if I had been comparing the two photos side by side, I would have known they were the same location. I had just assumed the link went to another location entirely–you earlier post wasn't at all in mind at the time. It all makes perfect sense in hindsight. :)
Quote from: Brian556 on June 05, 2013, 11:51:49 AM
QuotePS, do I plan trips in too much detail?
Not unless you plan what time you will be having a bowel movement.
I sort of do. I have an ETA for every intermediate stop, and I go to the bathroom at every stop.
(but I don't necessarily poo at every stop. even though it's cool.)
Noticed that western Ontario uses black/white arrow signs (instead of white/green) for people's driveways (yes, with their names on each one). I also saw some for side streets mixed in with the green ones, which may be a difference between a public vs. private street.
This is a rather recent installation along Walker CR 22 (https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-87.177903!3d33.756023!2m2!1f208.29!2f86.25!4f25.93!2m4!1e1!2m2!1ssHeg7N6-d0KAnmWFo810Iw!2e0&fid=5) in Cordova, AL. The county street blade signs are actually quite appealing, but this is quite the opposite.
Can't see the picture from that link you have. GSV picture is too blury.
Here's the one on California Street in Gainesville TX
Look closely and you will see the clearveiw text underneath.
This is appearently a newer TxDot sign that the city took down and re-sheeted for their own purposes. Kinda suprised TxDOT allowed this.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2FBrian5561%2Fslr52910013_zpsb6c76536.jpg&hash=fb5efe050166804e587d887c421b15ee9c35c9c2) (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/Brian5561/media/slr52910013_zpsb6c76536.jpg.html)
Also, I'm wondering about the age of some of the black and white guide signs on US 41/64/72/11 on the west side of Chattanooga, Tn.
The one on US 11 that says "BLACK CREEK" is high intensity sheeting, meaning that it had to have been fabricated after 1971. I don't know the sheeting type on the ones that say "CHATTANOOGA CREEK. What is interesting is that none of them look deteriorated.
I-480 near Cleveland:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3333_zpsf9f1e8b7.jpg&hash=971399f5ef8a25733d94f42fdb97b6b378619ab1) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3333_zpsf9f1e8b7.jpg.html)
The OH-17 shield is an outline to boot.
Yet another one on Upper Wacker Drive, Chicago:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3393_zps5ad0af42.jpg&hash=d7f30543dfdc417b65487e2d599d758857648ce0) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3393_zps5ad0af42.jpg.html)
One of the Lake County suburbs of Chicago has black text on white background diamond signs for a cell phone prohibition that are proving elusive on streetview tonight.
Quote from: Brian556 on June 09, 2013, 11:25:49 PM
Also, I'm wondering about the age of some of the black and white guide signs on US 41/64/72/11 on the west side of Chattanooga, Tn.
The one on US 11 that says "BLACK CREEK" is high intensity sheeting, meaning that it had to have been fabricated after 1971. I don't know the sheeting type on the ones that say "CHATTANOOGA CREEK. What is interesting is that none of them look deteriorated.
I would like to see the Black Creek sign. the Chattanooga Creek is, IIRC, EG scotchlite (1950-77, though old stock was being used up as late as the early 2000s). there's also a Sweetwater City Limits white sign on EG on US-11, and a 'Cleveland' porcelain sign (!) about 3 miles in of the current city limits.
(these were Dec 2006 observations - some signs might be gone.)
I believe Tennessee retired white guide signs in 1978, when the feds made them do so.
On Cape Cod, in Barnstable, many signs that are not installed for highway entrances are white with black text. The signs also use Clearview font, in a state that has explicitly banned its usage. This is as far as I know the only usage of Clearview in Massachusetts, even though they are small signs within the town setting.
Quote from: AMLNet49 on July 25, 2013, 02:08:37 PM
On Cape Cod, in Barnstable, many signs that are not installed for highway entrances are white with black text. The signs also use Clearview font, in a state that has explicitly banned its usage. This is as far as I know the only usage of Clearview in Massachusetts, even though they are small signs within the town setting.
There are a fair number of towns and cities that use Clearview in Mass. I've seen it on street signs, and even the Boston Transportation Department's taken to using Clearview on new regulatory and warning signs (e.g. the new share the road signs along Comm Ave).
I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the BWS' along the HOV lane of I-84 (both directions) between CT 15 and CT 30 & 83 through E. Hartford and Manchester.
Some I-84 Eastbound examples (scroll down):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/e3.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/e3.html)
Some I-84 Westbound examples (scroll down):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/w1.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/w1.html)
Here another one on M-5 at the roundabout with Pontiac trail. http://goo.gl/maps/6Bpwm
In Tigard, Oregon there were two new black-on-white signs installed:
Eastbound S.W. Bonita Road at S.W. 76th Avenue (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=S.W.+Bonita+Road,+Tigard,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.415164,-122.755083&spn=0.002341,0.004128&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.929196,16.907959&hnear=SW+Bonita+Rd,+Tigard,+Oregon+97224&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.415164,-122.755348&panoid=IpIMkT7JNOnFXGZwZsLY2w&cbp=12,112.88,,0,8.6)
Westbound S.W. Bonita Road at S.W. 72nd Avenue (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=S.W.+Bonita+Road,+Tigard,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.415221,-122.749882&spn=0.002341,0.004128&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.929196,16.907959&hnear=SW+Bonita+Rd,+Tigard,+Oregon+97224&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.415221,-122.749882&panoid=B1vL1FPC13frJWot_ux5nA&cbp=12,295.81,,0,15.4)
Although these should be more of a sign goof, as these are normally white-on-green signs. Not sure why these ones were made black-on-white.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on July 30, 2013, 07:25:51 PM
Here another one on M-5 at the roundabout with Pontiac trail. http://goo.gl/maps/6Bpwm
I feel like this sort of argues against the point made in the fourth post, that these are lane assignment signs and thus regulatory in nature. Because really, what's the difference between this sign and a white-on-green APL sign? (Other than that the two panels would be combined into one.)
Who would have time to read the phone numbers while driving by?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7402%2F9505659928_5ae1a0ef6d_z.jpg&hash=fe86911ced44898586798a62c74616e5ce838f36) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94611454@N02/9505659928/)
I don't even know what to make of this one...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5344%2F9551465212_e705fca846_z.jpg&hash=2356cdb4484763e80c38f8db7673ab0363b1ab02) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94611454@N02/9551465212/)
Quote from: sp_redelectric on July 30, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
In Tigard, Oregon there were two new black-on-white signs installed:
Eastbound S.W. Bonita Road at S.W. 76th Avenue (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=S.W.+Bonita+Road,+Tigard,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.415164,-122.755083&spn=0.002341,0.004128&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.929196,16.907959&hnear=SW+Bonita+Rd,+Tigard,+Oregon+97224&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.415164,-122.755348&panoid=IpIMkT7JNOnFXGZwZsLY2w&cbp=12,112.88,,0,8.6)
Westbound S.W. Bonita Road at S.W. 72nd Avenue (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=S.W.+Bonita+Road,+Tigard,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.415221,-122.749882&spn=0.002341,0.004128&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.929196,16.907959&hnear=SW+Bonita+Rd,+Tigard,+Oregon+97224&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.415221,-122.749882&panoid=B1vL1FPC13frJWot_ux5nA&cbp=12,295.81,,0,15.4)
Although these should be more of a sign goof, as these are normally white-on-green signs. Not sure why these ones were made black-on-white.
Ah Tigard, I wouldn't expect less from you. Also, a good example of a SPEED sign using Washington County's custom Series C digits. Of course, all I've ever seen was for digits 0 through 5 since speed limits over 55 barely exist in the state.
Quote from: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: Brian556 on June 05, 2013, 10:28:37 AM
QuoteWhere is it on California Street? If you're unable to get the picture, I'll be there in a couple of months.
Westbound, between the center of town and I-35.
Cool. I'll probably be having lunch at that Braum's on August 3.
PS, do I plan trips in too much detail? :sombrero:
Did lunch at Wendy's, must not have gone far enough into town to see the sign.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 29, 2013, 08:50:40 AM
I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the BWS' along the HOV lane of I-84 (both directions) between CT 15 and CT 30 & 83 through E. Hartford and Manchester.
Some I-84 Eastbound examples (scroll down):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/e3.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/e3.html)
Some I-84 Westbound examples (scroll down):
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/w1.html (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-84/w1.html)
I'm sorry to see there aren't any there of the "2 PERSON MINIMUM" signs at the westbound Restricted Lane start in Vernon, each of which was modified about five years ago to say "2 PER MINIMUM," with a covered "SON" clearly visible on each one. My email to the CT DOT asking why this rephrasing was undertaken was met with the response that sometimes letters fall off. I said, "The same letters on three consecutive signs?"
They didn't answer.