AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Brandon on May 22, 2013, 04:44:10 PM

Title: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2013, 04:44:10 PM
Driving around in different states, and even into Ontario,  I've noticed several differing types of signage for the prohibition of certain types of vehicles and pedestrians on freeways.  I've never stopped to really get photos of these though.

Illinois tends to use two different types, one for IDOT (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.582507,-88.165573&spn=0.004293,0.010568&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.583206,-88.166279&panoid=O46n5e1f-fKQGp7tvWgXxA&cbp=12,80.04,,1,6.24) and one for the Tollway (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.655935,-88.019297&spn=0.004321,0.010568&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.655935,-88.019297&panoid=3wwwu_Ef4EwZfJm5fIvAgg&cbp=12,206.75,,1,2.83).

Michigan has yet another:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1558.jpg&hash=c1af11b70aa41f9bf55aa5b2bbe8226822252ef3) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_1558.jpg.html)

How many different types are out there?
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: kphoger on May 22, 2013, 04:57:57 PM
Does Missouri even use these?  I recall not seeing them, but maybe they're scattered around.  Or maybe I'm just blind.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: deathtopumpkins on May 22, 2013, 05:03:33 PM
I don't have and can't find a picture, but Virginia posts "PROHIBITED: [list of peds, animals, bikes, etc.]" signs.

Massachusetts posts a small sign with no symbols around ped, horse, and bike icons.[/list]
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: kj3400 on May 22, 2013, 05:09:35 PM
I know Maryland has them. It's pretty simple: http://goo.gl/maps/Q9jJX
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: vtk on May 22, 2013, 05:26:41 PM
From Ohio's SDM:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvidthekid.info%2Fimghost%2Fr5-h10d.png&hash=420aa4750d9ab066bbe8d4a1fa20e719a470e832) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvidthekid.info%2Fimghost%2Fr5-h10e.png&hash=6ad1572f7d25282557f41528548476021207d4d3)

The first one is 36" square, the second one 30" square.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: 1995hoo on May 22, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
Virginia's is fairly detailed and the print is kind of small. I don't know of a way to get a Street View link on an iPad, so I'll post a link tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
^^ I like the prohibition on animals on the first one.  As if deer actually read.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: vtk on May 22, 2013, 05:43:05 PM
I think the intention was horses, mules, maybe livestock.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2013, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on May 22, 2013, 05:43:05 PM
I think the intention was horses, mules, maybe livestock.

That's my guess too, but the wording is ambiguous and could theoretically include deer, squirrels, foxes, rabbits, etc.  It's like the signs prohibiting public defecation by animals.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: PHLBOS on May 22, 2013, 05:59:17 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 22, 2013, 05:03:33 PMMassachusetts posts a small sign with no symbols around ped, horse, and bike icons.[/list]
Prior to their usage of the standard prohibtion symbol signage, MA used to use a single regulatory sign panel that simply read:

PEDESTRIANS
BICYCLES
HORSES
PROHIBITED
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: J N Winkler on May 22, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 22, 2013, 05:40:53 PMVirginia's is fairly detailed and the print is kind of small. I don't know of a way to get a Street View link on an iPad, so I'll post a link tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it.

It's in the VDOT SHS supplement anyway (sign code R5-V2).  The word message is "NO PEDESTRIANS, BICYCLES, MOPEDS, ANIMALS, SELF-PROPELLED MACHINERY OR EQUIPMENT."

Edit:  The Virginia sign, like many other states', is small and oblong vertically, being designed to be mounted on one post.  Kansas' prohibition sign is large, oblong horizontally, and used only on Interstates with very few exceptions, such as US 81 north of Salina and (I think) US 75 north of Topeka.  (Most non-Interstate full freeways in Kansas do not have prohibition signage.)
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: formulanone on May 22, 2013, 07:32:38 PM
I-95 in Maine; LeHay and what appears to be Futura Bold (?):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2FInt95RampProhibitionSignLeHay.jpg&hash=5946edc027759c95770fd0cb819d72ec1d012e36)
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: KEK Inc. on May 22, 2013, 07:58:02 PM
Why can't they just use R5-6, R9-3 and R9-14?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmutcd.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fhtm%2F2009%2Fimages%2Ffig9b_02.gif&hash=c39bd6a703cc773b26f28a4255a4449ae910725f)
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: NE2 on May 22, 2013, 08:04:55 PM
Caltrans often whites out the 'bicycles' line when they're allowed: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.581283,-122.403231&spn=0.015577,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.581353,-122.403336&panoid=dOYjOv3E4QzFQ6eNxG2S1A&cbp=12,337.66,,0,11.11
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: PurdueBill on May 22, 2013, 08:16:07 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on May 22, 2013, 07:58:02 PM
Why can't they just use R5-6, R9-3 and R9-14?

The Mass symbolic one is basically a combination of those three.  It goes by R5-10E.

Route 128 example (http://goo.gl/maps/JHOLn)

Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Mapmikey on May 22, 2013, 08:21:43 PM
Virginia also posts no hitchhiking signs on its ramps using a thumb inside a red circle with prohibiting diagonal line.

I used to give these signs a "thumbs up" from my vehicle driving by them when I first moved to Virginia and wondered if I was violating the sign  :)

Mapmikey
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on May 22, 2013, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 22, 2013, 08:04:55 PM
Caltrans often whites out the 'bicycles' line when they're allowed: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.581283,-122.403231&spn=0.015577,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.581353,-122.403336&panoid=dOYjOv3E4QzFQ6eNxG2S1A&cbp=12,337.66,,0,11.11
I figured I'd get beaten to the California signage. My question always has been, WTF is a "Motor-Driven Cycle"? Obviously not just any motorcycle, but at what engine displacement are you allowed on a freeway?
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Scott5114 on May 22, 2013, 09:32:06 PM
For Oklahoma turnpikes (posted on the intersecting road before the junction, not on the on-ramps like most of these):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fli8QTQB.jpg&hash=a92748618ab4f257e02561241225e9c2220e1036)

Newer ones are in proper black on white.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: route56 on May 22, 2013, 09:40:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
Kansas' prohibition sign is large, oblong horizontally, and used only on Interstates with very few exceptions, such as US 81 north of Salina and (I think) US 75 north of Topeka.  (Most non-Interstate full freeways in Kansas do not have prohibition signage.)

I don't know about US 75 in Shawnee County, but I do know that it is used on the freeway section of K-10 in Douglas County.

Here's a sign:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7362/9503777897_4a76a8a12f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ftPm4B)
38066 (https://flic.kr/p/ftPm4B) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr (19 September 2009)

And a "proper" version of the Oklahoma Turnpike Regulations sign (SB I-35 @ US 412)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5488/9483091956_52f54e1d60_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/frZjRs)38601 (https://flic.kr/p/frZjRs) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr (25 November 2009)

EDIT! 1/7/17 to fix dead image links
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on May 22, 2013, 09:58:22 PM
Signage in New Jersey explicitly mentions horses, such as at this entrance to I-287 eastbound on CR 529 near South Plainfield, NJ:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3650%2F3446954302_13ae846e5b_z.jpg&hash=07f436864d1529f04d02eead17fc61ff0ada57f4) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coredesatchikai/3446954302/)
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: NE2 on May 23, 2013, 12:08:57 AM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on May 22, 2013, 09:12:29 PM
I figured I'd get beaten to the California signage. My question always has been, WTF is a "Motor-Driven Cycle"? Obviously not just any motorcycle, but at what engine displacement are you allowed on a freeway?
AKA moped - it's a separate legal vehicle class.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: kphoger on May 23, 2013, 12:13:10 AM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2013, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on May 22, 2013, 05:43:05 PM
I think the intention was horses, mules, maybe livestock.

That's my guess too, but the wording is ambiguous and could theoretically include deer, squirrels, foxes, rabbits, etc.  It's like the signs prohibiting public defecation by animals.

I'm pretty sure it's still illegal to take a squirrel-drawn carriage onto the Interstate.  Likewise, riding a fox.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: J N Winkler on May 23, 2013, 01:25:43 AM
To sketch a somewhat more quotidian scenario, it is also illegal to drive cattle, sheep, etc. down the Interstate.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: sdmichael on May 23, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
I've seen PARADES listed on a prohibition sign, possibly in Tennessee.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: mtantillo on May 23, 2013, 02:34:02 AM
Virginia prohibits "self-propelled machinery".  No one can really seem to describe what that means though! 

Virginia's sign used to say "PROHIBITED" and then list all the uses that were not allowed.  In line with the Federal MUTCD shift in emphasis from the word "Prohibited" to the word "No", the sign was changed from the design that has always been in use to one that says "NO" and lists all the uses that are banned. 
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: cpzilliacus on May 23, 2013, 07:44:14 AM
Quote from: mtantillo on May 23, 2013, 02:34:02 AM
Virginia prohibits "self-propelled machinery".  No one can really seem to describe what that means though! 

Virginia's sign used to say "PROHIBITED" and then list all the uses that were not allowed.  In line with the Federal MUTCD shift in emphasis from the word "Prohibited" to the word "No", the sign was changed from the design that has always been in use to one that says "NO" and lists all the uses that are banned. 

There's an old-style Virginia prohibition sign on the (sharp) ramp from the northbound G.W. Memorial Parkway to the Inner Loop of I-495 (which leads almost directly to the American Legion Bridge and Maryland).
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: kphoger on May 23, 2013, 07:48:47 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 23, 2013, 01:25:43 AM
To sketch a somewhat more quotidian scenario, it is also illegal to drive cattle, sheep, etc. down the Interstate.

Yes, and I'm certain that's part of the intent of the sign.  I heard once that Kansas is a free-range state, meaning it's legal to drive cattle anywhere that doesn't specifically prohibit it–meaning you could drive them right through a town unless there were a local law against it.  I'm unable to confirm or deny that on a quick Google search right now, though.




Quote from: kphoger on May 22, 2013, 04:57:57 PM
Does Missouri even use these?  I recall not seeing them, but maybe they're scattered around.  Or maybe I'm just blind.

Since no one has answered in the affirmative, I'll assume Missouri does not use these signs.  That doesn't mean freeways are wide open to every kind of traffic–specific laws may still exist on the books.  But, I do know that it leaves the shoulder of Interstates wide open for pedestrians, and therefore hitchhiking.  In most other states, one may not proceed by foot (and therefore may not hitchhike) beyond the restrictions sign.




Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
Kansas' prohibition sign is large, oblong horizontally, and used only on Interstates with very few exceptions.

That makes it rather weird to see them while transitioning from one freeway to another freeway, i.e. from a state freeway to an Interstate.

Example:  where K-96 joins I-235.
Street view here (http://goo.gl/maps/xELye).  Zoom out of street view to see that it's posted in the middle of a huge freeway-to-freeway interchange, but strategically precisely where a pedestrian on K-96 would have no option other than to enter I-235.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: J N Winkler on May 23, 2013, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2013, 07:48:47 AMYes, and I'm certain that's part of the intent of the sign.  I heard once that Kansas is a free-range state, meaning it's legal to drive cattle anywhere that doesn't specifically prohibit it–meaning you could drive them right through a town unless there were a local law against it.  I'm unable to confirm or deny that on a quick Google search right now, though.

It sounds plausible to me, but I wonder if there are still restrictions on the type of cattle that can be driven which date from the 1860's and 1870's (when the primary intention was to prevent foot and mouth disease from being imported into the state by Texas longhorns).

Quote
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
Kansas' prohibition sign is large, oblong horizontally, and used only on Interstates with very few exceptions.

That makes it rather weird to see them while transitioning from one freeway to another freeway, i.e. from a state freeway to an Interstate.

It is also odd to see them on the mainline, as is the case on US 81 north of Salina and also (if memory serves) US 75 north of Topeka.

Kansas does not yet comply with the requirement in the 2009 MUTCD to use exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways, and I have long theorized that one approach to compliance KDOT might take is to use exit numbers only on Interstates and on non-Interstate freeways which have prohibition signs, treating the other state-route freeways as if they were just paper "expressways" (for which exit numbering is optional) even though they are built as full freeways.  I do not know if the use of prohibition signs in Kansas in fact translates into a legal distinction in the type or quality of access control provided.  (In Britain such a distinction exists between motorways and non-motorway dual carriageways subject to motorway restrictions:  agricultural traffic cannot be banned from the latter.)

The approaches to prohibition signage followed in most American states are faintly ridiculous, to be honest.

In western Europe, where the important feature of freeway-type roads is the prohibition of nonmotorized traffic (hence the use of some more or less direct translation of the word motorway for such roads in the various countries that have them), there is a rigidly observed convention of signing an escape route for nonmotorized traffic which would otherwise be led inexorably onto a motorway.  The closest we come to this in the US is "Bicycles Must Exit" signing in states, like California, where the freeway-as-motorway concept is well understood and signing is designed to be legally airtight.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: 1995hoo on May 23, 2013, 09:40:56 AM
Here's a Street View of one of Virginia's standard prohibition signs used for many years. (http://goo.gl/maps/cGnKu) It was still in place as of Tuesday afternoon. For those not wanting to click the link, it's a rectangular white sign, taller than it is wide, with all text in all-caps (I've transcribed it in caps/lowercase here for legibility) and center-justified, and it says:

PROHIBITED
-------------------------
Pedestrians
Bicycles    Mopeds
Animals
Self-Propelled
Machinery or
Equipment
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: cpzilliacus on May 23, 2013, 11:37:00 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 23, 2013, 09:40:56 AM
Self-Propelled
Machinery or
Equipment

Curiously, there is a fair amount of "self-propelled" machinery or  equipment that is perfectly legal on Virginia freeways, including cranes and Gradalls on rubber tires.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Brandon on May 23, 2013, 12:16:40 PM
Looking around, Hawai'i has a most interesting sign for it:

Keep Out Freeway (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=21.383553,-158.029586&spn=0.005385,0.010568&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=21.383463,-158.031764&panoid=TH4eWlBlLZw0qJcP0yJRCQ&cbp=12,19.13,,1,-0.1)
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 23, 2013, 12:55:03 PM
does a Googlemobile count as self-propelled machinery?

in a very loose sense, any automobile is self-propelled machinery.  the driver merely controls it - the propulsion is provided by a component of the automobile itself.  the only way it would not be self-propelled is if it were shot out of a cannon!
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: NE2 on May 23, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
Missouri has at least one: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.1008,-94.571482&spn=0.007593,0.016512&gl=us&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.100746,-94.571549&panoid=5j3_dwcJlLq5ZuLg8DTBEw&cbp=12,315.24,,2,0.56
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Darkchylde on May 25, 2013, 05:58:31 AM
Quote from: NE2 on May 23, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
Missouri has at least one: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.1008,-94.571482&spn=0.007593,0.016512&gl=us&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.100746,-94.571549&panoid=5j3_dwcJlLq5ZuLg8DTBEw&cbp=12,315.24,,2,0.56
I saw something like that, getting on I-470 West at Exit 2.

I take that onramp often, I'll see about snagging a pic next time I'm able.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: lordsutch on May 25, 2013, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on May 23, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
I've seen PARADES listed on a prohibition sign, possibly in Tennessee.

"PARADES" is an Arkansas thing: http://www.flickr.com/photos/syddelicious/2676786682/

Mississippi doesn't generally post prohibition signs on freeway entrances; Tennessee and Georgia typically do.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Big John on May 25, 2013, 06:16:54 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on May 25, 2013, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on May 23, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
I've seen PARADES listed on a prohibition sign, possibly in Tennessee.

Tennessee and Georgia typically do.

Georgia also posts them on the off ramps facing the cross street, as for anyone entering the "wrong way" and pedestrians.  I usually see them only on the on-ramps in other states.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: hobsini2 on May 27, 2013, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on May 25, 2013, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on May 23, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
I've seen PARADES listed on a prohibition sign, possibly in Tennessee.

"PARADES" is an Arkansas thing: http://www.flickr.com/photos/syddelicious/2676786682/

Mississippi doesn't generally post prohibition signs on freeway entrances; Tennessee and Georgia typically do.

Damn. I want my parade to go right down the middle of the Eisenhower in to Congress Pkwy.
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: kphoger on May 27, 2013, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 27, 2013, 12:12:13 PM
my parade

Wow, really?
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Billy F 1988 on May 27, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
Let's hope it rains!
Title: Re: Freeway Prohibition Signage
Post by: Brandon on June 02, 2013, 08:28:34 PM
Here's an image, from the other day, or the ISTHA signage from the IL-47 entrance ramp onto I-88:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3230_zps85b4465b.jpg&hash=4370d4a6fbd4d193281e7d8d8c1aa901ac7a4137) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3230_zps85b4465b.jpg.html)