From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal today:
"Seven Wisconsin highways built in the last 20 years are underused, raising questions about the more than a billion dollars they cost taxpayers, according to a report the WISPIRG Foundation released Thursday..."
http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/wisconsin-wasting-money-on-underused-highway-projects-watchdog-says-b9917655z1-208688951.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/wisconsin-wasting-money-on-underused-highway-projects-watchdog-says-b9917655z1-208688951.html)
This is done by a left-wing group so I think it would naturally come to these conclusions.
However, they are using WIDOT's own projections and showing that the actuals have yet to materialize so they do have some valid points. And I have argued here before that Wisconsin is getting to the point where it is expanding highways that really don't need expanding...and not focusing enough on the highways that are already crowded.
For instance, I drive both WI-26 and I-94 regularly, and I strongly believe that I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee should have been expanded to six lanes before WI-26 was expanded to four.
^^ At least WisDOT is expanding its roads. Now IDOT on the other hand... :banghead:
Quote from: Brandon on May 23, 2013, 05:39:15 PM
^^ At least WisDOT is expanding its roads. Now IDOT on the other hand... :banghead:
So true
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2013, 03:32:12 PMI strongly believe that I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee should have been expanded to six lanes before WI-26 was expanded to four.
This. 100% Agree.
QuoteAt least WisDOT is expanding its roads.
Which doesn't really matter if they aren't expanding the right roads. And some (I-39/90 especially) have been given the short end of the stick.
Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2013, 03:47:18 AM
QuoteAt least WisDOT is expanding its roads.
Which doesn't really matter if they aren't expanding the right roads. And some (I-39/90 especially) have been given the short end of the stick.
I just can't believe IDOT will have 39/90 six lanes wide to Beloit by the end of the year. With all the wide bridges in Rock County, a few years ago I would have though Wisconsin would have 39/90 six lanes before Illinois. Now Illinois will have 90 six lanes to Chicago before Wisconsin even gets started.
Quote from: cwm1276 on May 24, 2013, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2013, 03:47:18 AM
QuoteAt least WisDOT is expanding its roads.
Which doesn't really matter if they aren't expanding the right roads. And some (I-39/90 especially) have been given the short end of the stick.
I just can't believe IDOT will have 39/90 six lanes wide to Beloit by the end of the year. With all the wide bridges in Rock County, a few years ago I would have though Wisconsin would have 39/90 six lanes before Illinois. Now Illinois will have 90 six lanes to Chicago before Wisconsin even gets started.
From what I can see, IDOT isn't widening I-39/90. That looks like ISTHA from the mileposts used in the section. All of the mileposts are now ISTHA-style posted at 1/4 mile intervals. I'm guessing that ISTHA is taking over maintenance of that section of I-39/90 from IDOT, but leaving it "free".
The US 10 Marshfield Spur should have been done as a 'Super Two' on a four-lane ROW, as it does have light traffic. OTOH, that spur was definitely needed, especially the Stevens Point bypass section.
Some people do look at the map and wonder about all of those freeways west of US(I)-41 in the Appleton-Oshkosh area - those were badly needed and more than carry their weight in traffic. In fact, I can envision the US 10/45 duplex section having to be upgraded to six lanes in the foreseeable future.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on May 24, 2013, 01:12:53 PM
The US 10 Marshfield Spur should have been done as a 'Super Two' on a four-lane ROW, as it does have light traffic. OTOH, that spur was definitely needed, especially the Stevens Point bypass section.
Some people do look at the map and wonder about all of those freeways west of US(I)-41 in the Appleton-Oshkosh area - those were badly needed and more than carry their weight in traffic. In fact, I can envision the US 10/45 duplex section having to be upgraded to six lanes in the foreseeable future.
Mike
I would definitely agree that the US45/US10 section should be 6 lanes, or at least have a merging auxiliary lane when merging from US45 north onto US10 west, during those peek 'up-nort-der-hey' seasons, it can be very hectic, and at times difficult to merge with all the campers and stuff now being stuck in the left lane.
Quote from: Brandon on May 24, 2013, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: cwm1276 on May 24, 2013, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2013, 03:47:18 AM
QuoteAt least WisDOT is expanding its roads.
Which doesn't really matter if they aren't expanding the right roads. And some (I-39/90 especially) have been given the short end of the stick.
I just can't believe IDOT will have 39/90 six lanes wide to Beloit by the end of the year. With all the wide bridges in Rock County, a few years ago I would have though Wisconsin would have 39/90 six lanes before Illinois. Now Illinois will have 90 six lanes to Chicago before Wisconsin even gets started.
From what I can see, IDOT isn't widening I-39/90. That looks like ISTHA from the mileposts used in the section. All of the mileposts are now ISTHA-style posted at 1/4 mile intervals. I'm guessing that ISTHA is taking over maintenance of that section of I-39/90 from IDOT, but leaving it "free".
IDOT is finishing the short section between the stateline and Rockton Rd, where the tollway begins. All traffic is on the westbound lanes this year until it is complete.
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/news/widening-will-begin-along-i/article_5c2dbfee-7821-11e1-8d3d-0019bb2963f4.html
This study had one error about US 151. The whole project to expand US 151 extended from Dickeyville to Dodgeville, not just Dickeyville to Belmont. The project extended about 40 miles, not just 18, as stated in the study. That might have changed their results a little bit. But regardless of the numbers, I say the expansion of US 151 was well worth it. The old two lane highway was very hilly and curvy for the amount of traffic it carried. And although the highway is not the sole reason, it has greatly helped the growth in some of the towns along the route, especially Platteville.
My question is about WI 26. The north section from Waupun to Oshkosh was not included in the widenings. This is a well-travelled section as it provides a shortcut from Green Bay and the Valley to Madison. Did the parts further south that were widened have more traffic counts or was Rosendale getting mad at the thought of losing revenue off speeding tickets?
Big John, the southern portions had more traffic but not by a great deal.
The issue that WIDOT has to deal wi th north of WI-60 is what route do you use? Traffic counts show that about 2/3 of the traffic actually departs WI-26 to head north on Dodge County A...it is the quicker way to US-151 and you avoid the city of Juneau. However I don't think there are any active studies of that portion of the highway.
IMO the section between US-41 and US-151 will not be upgraded...I think they view US-151 to Fond du Lac as a viable alternative.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2013, 07:21:43 AM
Big John, the southern portions had more traffic but not by a great deal.
The issue that WIDOT has to deal wi th north of WI-60 is what route do you use? Traffic counts show that about 2/3 of the traffic actually departs WI-26 to head north on Dodge County A...it is the quicker way to US-151 and you avoid the city of Juneau. However I don't think there are any active studies of that portion of the highway.
IMO the section between US-41 and US-151 will not be upgraded...I think they view US-151 to Fond du Lac as a viable alternative.
It is my belief that WisDOT will likely be rerouting WI 26 to follow what is now County 'A' from just north of WI 60 to US 151 by the Walmart* distro center in Beaver Da(rn :-P ) in the very near-term future. Have you driven that road lately? *WOW*!!! :wow: It now has some of the very *best* two-lane concrete that I've seen anywhere in the state! Only the major intersections have yet to be redone (I am anticipating at least one roundabout at WI 33). This will do until the time comes in the deeper, longer-term future to go cross-country on a new ROW to feed into US 151 on a shorter, more direct routing and free-flow ramps, perhaps on the southeast 'corner' of Beaver Da(rn).
As for the part of WI 26 between Waupun and Oshkosh? I have been hearing some rumblings from WisDOT about beginning to study it for four-lane upgrades and a Rosendale :evilgrin: bypass.
Stay tuned.
:nod:
Mike
Wis 26 to County A is my short cut to get to Grandma's. That way I only have to drive through Fox Lake before I see another town (unincorporated Oak Grove and Manchester excepted) before I get to Princeton. I have noticed within the last 5-10 years or so the increase of traffic on A between 26 and Fox Lake.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 26, 2013, 10:49:47 AM
It is my belief that WisDOT will likely be rerouting WI 26 to follow what is now County 'A' from just north of WI 60 to US 151 by the Walmart* distro center in Beaver Da(rn :-P ) in the very near-term future. Have you driven that road lately? *WOW*!!! :wow: It now has some of the very *best* two-lane concrete that I've seen anywhere in the state! Only the major intersections have yet to be redone (I am anticipating at least one roundabout at WI 33). This will do until the time comes in the deeper, longer-term future to go cross-country on a new ROW to feed into US 151 on a shorter, more direct routing and free-flow ramps, perhaps on the southeast 'corner' of Beaver Da(rn).
I agree. I drove it about a month ago and couldn't believe that it was a *county* road. Really well done from 151 all the way to 26. First thing I thought was that there were some aspirations for something bigger there.
Unofficially, County A really is a Wis 33 2 lane county road bypass of Beaver Dam. The only sticking point at this time that I can see is that stop sign at the north end in Fox Lake with Wis 68 but Wis 33 already has a stop sign with 68/A in Fox Lake.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 26, 2013, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2013, 07:21:43 AM
Big John, the southern portions had more traffic but not by a great deal.
The issue that WIDOT has to deal wi th north of WI-60 is what route do you use? Traffic counts show that about 2/3 of the traffic actually departs WI-26 to head north on Dodge County A...it is the quicker way to US-151 and you avoid the city of Juneau. However I don't think there are any active studies of that portion of the highway.
IMO the section between US-41 and US-151 will not be upgraded...I think they view US-151 to Fond du Lac as a viable alternative.
It is my belief that WisDOT will likely be rerouting WI 26 to follow what is now County 'A' from just north of WI 60 to US 151 by the Walmart* distro center in Beaver Da(rn :-P ) in the very near-term future. Have you driven that road lately? *WOW*!!! :wow: It now has some of the very *best* two-lane concrete that I've seen anywhere in the state! Only the major intersections have yet to be redone (I am anticipating at least one roundabout at WI 33). This will do until the time comes in the deeper, longer-term future to go cross-country on a new ROW to feed into US 151 on a shorter, more direct routing and free-flow ramps, perhaps on the southeast 'corner' of Beaver Da(rn).
As for the part of WI 26 between Waupun and Oshkosh? I have been hearing some rumblings from WisDOT about beginning to study it for four-lane upgrades and a Rosendale :evilgrin: bypass.
Stay tuned.
:nod:
Mike
I drove the watertown bypass recently, taking WI26 home all the way to Oshkosh except through Waupun, and south of 151, ya, traffic wasn't heavy, but much of the traffic was truck traffic, and having to make a turn in Juneau and stop multiple times was along the route was painful. but driving the segment from US151-oshkosh was the worst I have traveled it going north, I literally couldn't see the end of the column of cars and trucks behind me, because of some old person who wanted to go about 48 MPH the ENTIRE WAY. the Rosendale bypass should be put on the fast track, all we need right now is a super-two, or hell, even a completely at grade bypass of Rosendale. the WI26 route from US41-US151 is already minutes faster than taking US41-US151 in fond du lac, but a 65MPH road between Oshkosh and US151 would be probably 10 minutes faster.
also, where do you hear such rumblings? I want to be enlightened about their secrets as well!
In addition to WI 26, the Burlington Bypass and that segment of US 151, they also looked at:
The expanded US 51/WI 29 freeway in Wausau.
WI 64 over in St. Croix County.
US 141 north of Abrams
US 41 Between Oconto and Peshtigo (including the bypasses)
The analysis includes a sidebar about US 8 between Minnesota and US 53 and the expansion WisDOT has been mulling for some time now.
My experience on the Burlington Bypass lends me to agree with WISPRIG on that one. That road had like no traffic on it when I was there on a Friday afternoon.
I also felt like the WI 26 expansions have been overkill. It seems like they could've just gotten away with expandable super 2 bypasses of Jefferson and Watertown.
I agree with Mike about US 10 to Marshfield, too. That was pretty desolate when I drove it. Again on a Friday afternoon.
My travels haven't taken me to the four lane section of WI 64 since it opened, but it strikes me as a sprawl generator. With the new bridge going in that's going to start blowing up even faster.
The expansion in Wausau has really been a nice upgrade though and I disagree that it was overkill. Maybe the EB->NB flyover at the 29 west junction is a little much, but it just made more sense to do that complete interchange all at once. Same deal at the 29 east junction and the WB->SB flyover. The average traffic count data one would look could cause one to miss the weekend surges of traffic there. The expansion has really cleaned that up.
I've only traveled the newer US 141 expressway once and US 41 up there twice; both during a weekday. It was lightly traveled at the time I was there, but I imagine they experience similar heavy numbers of weekend warriors. For these last three projects, traffic counts have probably fallen short of prediction because of the recession and vacations Up North are exactly the type of thing people cut back on when shit gets bad.
WI 23 is another project where 4 lanes seems overzealous at this point.
There is a case to be made about shifting the focus to fixing existing infrastructure instead of some of these new expansions. Some of these corridors might have been better to build expandable bypasses of communities first before going whole-hog on expansion.
I think it's well known that the road building lobby is an influential one in Wisconsin. They've always got ads during ball games on the radio. And they have an important case to make: investing in infrastructure is good policy. But you gotta do it smartly. Not all projects are created equally. I think Wisconsin has been starting to stray on the 'smartness' of some projects. In the 80's and 90's my state was playing catch-up. Today, the major population centers are sufficiently connected. But we're still expanding rural corridors to the point where a city of 20k (Marshfield) gets it's own "spur" on this system. What's next? An expensive new expressway to Monroe? I can see r/w for it in Green County on WI 11, so maybe.
Driving less is a real trend and not just an artifact of the recession. As long as wages continue to lag behind cost of living for most people, fewer of them will want to (or be able to) drive very far.
With the pending I-39/90 expansion project, one could foresee a lot of traffic bound for the Fox Valley opting for WI-26 instead. There's sufficient traffic now between Janesville and Johnson Creek that the 2-lane stretches would need passing lane sections to accommodate slower traffic, and the busier intersections need interchanges. Better to 4-lane it now so it's not overwhelmed with traffic trying to avoid I-39/90 in a few years.
No question, though - WI-26 through Rosendale needs 4-laning yesterday. It is utterly overwhelmed by the traffic demands on it, and passing opportunities are slim. You're guaranteed to spend 3/4 of the stretch stuck behind a slow truck.
I also frequent the Burlington Bypass, as it's the fastest route between Janesville and Racine. It does strike me as a bit extravagant; I've never encountered traffic levels that couldn't be accommodated by a 2-lane bypass.
I don't forsee WI-11 and WI-81 east of Brodhead needing a 4-laning anytime in my lifetime, but I could see 4-laning on WI-11/81 west of Brodhead becoming necessary in about 20 years. It has heavy truck traffic and passing is a struggle until you reach the existing 4-lane section.
Given the work on other routes, I'm mildly surprised that US-14 between Darien and Madison hasn't gotten more consideration than it has. There's a fair amount of truck traffic (particularly east of Janesville) and heavy commuter traffic (particularly Evansville north to Madison). It's also the most obvious alternative between Janesville and Madison for the upcoming I-39/90 expansion. It may not need 4-laning west of County H to Evansville yet, but the rest of the stretch has the traffic to warrant it.
Before US51/WI29 was expanded in Wausau, the 29 west interchange was a mere diamond with signals with piss-poor timing and the 29 east a tight trumpet - I've lived in Wausau from 2000 to 2005 (2004 was the start of construction) and believe me - there many trucks that tipped over after overestimating speed on the S->E movement of the 29 east. In addition, they anticipated backups - which were present in places along the road - especially the side roads and the roads crossing the highway. Those roads used crossings meant for 2-lane roads - which backed up traffic especially on weekends in the Rib Mountain shopping district.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 27, 2013, 08:19:07 PMI also felt like the WI 26 expansions have been overkill. It seems like they could've just gotten away with expandable super 2 bypasses of Jefferson and Watertown.
I drove the stretch between Fort and Watertown this past Friday (5/24) afternoon-evening northbound and the facility could easily get away with just a few bypasses and some passing lanes. Something about the whole WIS 26
freeway conversion project screams overkill especially with funds that could go toward things like moving up the new Zoo IC or a needed ground-up rebuilding/ expansion of I-94 from Madison to Waukesha or 6 lane'ing I-94 from Hammond to US 53 and so on.
Quote
My travels haven't taken me to the four lane section of WI 64 since it opened, but it strikes me as a sprawl generator. With the new bridge going in that's going to start blowing up even faster.
This expansion was needed as that stretch of WIS 64 was a slow rather accident prone highway with sharp curves, blind driveways, and was overcrowded, especially the way St. Croix County grew in the mid 90's - late 00's and continues to grow (albeit slower) even after the recession. (For example: The City of New Richmond's population grew by nearly a percentage point from July '11- July '12)
300th post!!!
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 27, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Given the work on other routes, I'm mildly surprised that US-14 between Darien and Madison hasn't gotten more consideration than it has. There's a fair amount of truck traffic (particularly east of Janesville) and heavy commuter traffic (particularly Evansville north to Madison). It's also the most obvious alternative between Janesville and Madison for the upcoming I-39/90 expansion. It may not need 4-laning west of County H to Evansville yet, but the rest of the stretch has the traffic to warrant it.
I have been hoping for the better part of 20 years that WI 11 / US 14 between I-90/39 and I-43 would at the very least be closely looked at for expansion. That was always the preferred route for Janesville-Milwaukee traffic IMO. I'd be curious to see how much southbound I-43 traffic from Milwaukee exits at US 14 west versus how much heads to Beloit. Since Beloit got the interstate proper, then Janesville should at least have an expressway connection to 43.
I've always felt like US 14 through Wisconsin took a backseat to US 12 and was perhaps under-constructed somewhat as a result.
Quote from: mrose on May 28, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 27, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Given the work on other routes, I'm mildly surprised that US-14 between Darien and Madison hasn't gotten more consideration than it has. There's a fair amount of truck traffic (particularly east of Janesville) and heavy commuter traffic (particularly Evansville north to Madison). It's also the most obvious alternative between Janesville and Madison for the upcoming I-39/90 expansion. It may not need 4-laning west of County H to Evansville yet, but the rest of the stretch has the traffic to warrant it.
I have been hoping for the better part of 20 years that WI 11 / US 14 between I-90/39 and I-43 would at the very least be closely looked at for expansion. That was always the preferred route for Janesville-Milwaukee traffic IMO. I'd be curious to see how much southbound I-43 traffic from Milwaukee exits at US 14 west versus how much heads to Beloit. Since Beloit got the interstate proper, then Janesville should at least have an expressway connection to 43.
I've always felt like US 14 through Wisconsin took a backseat to US 12 and was perhaps under-constructed somewhat as a result.
I'm wondering if WIDOT thinks a lot of the Janesville to Milwaukee traffic will take WI-26 instead. It is only slightly longer, and once it is done and ramps up to 65 mph, it will probably be faster.
That being said, WIDOT is studying the corridor. Here is the site.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/1411/
Looks as though the study of the section west of Janesville has been suspended indefinitely. The eastern section has some alternatives and they are currently doing the EIS.
I dispute that I-94 "needs" six lanes all the way between Milwaukee and Madison. West of Oconomowoc, it functions well enough. There are more worthwhile projects in the state.
I feel the same way about the eight lane expansion to Illinois south of MKE.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2013, 06:46:17 PM
I dispute that I-94 "needs" six lanes all the way between Milwaukee and Madison. West of Oconomowoc, it functions well enough. There are more worthwhile projects in the state.
I feel the same way about the eight lane expansion to Illinois south of MKE.
As someone who drove I-94 back and forth once a week from Delafield to I-90 and back up until a few months ago, I can tell you that it absolutely needs a third lane. Traffic is a mess CTH-SS to CTH-F going west, and from CTH-N to WI-89 going east. At that point, it makes sense to just to the entire length. It may be light mid-days and at night, but traffic is pretty gnarly during drive times and weekend.
Quote from: GeekJedi on May 28, 2013, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2013, 06:46:17 PM
I dispute that I-94 "needs" six lanes all the way between Milwaukee and Madison. West of Oconomowoc, it functions well enough. There are more worthwhile projects in the state.
I feel the same way about the eight lane expansion to Illinois south of MKE.
As someone who drove I-94 back and forth once a week from Delafield to I-90 and back up until a few months ago, I can tell you that it absolutely needs a third lane. Traffic is a mess CTH-SS to CTH-F going west, and from CTH-N to WI-89 going east. At that point, it makes sense to just to the entire length. It may be light mid-days and at night, but traffic is pretty gnarly during drive times and weekend.
I'm wonder how things will be changing up here as people in metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland start discovering en-mass that it is now shorter and faster to take US(I)-41/US 45/US 10 between Milwaukee and Stevens Point than it is to use the all-interstate routing via Madison and Portage when going to and from the northwoods.
:hmmm:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on May 29, 2013, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on May 28, 2013, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2013, 06:46:17 PM
I dispute that I-94 "needs" six lanes all the way between Milwaukee and Madison. West of Oconomowoc, it functions well enough. There are more worthwhile projects in the state.
I feel the same way about the eight lane expansion to Illinois south of MKE.
As someone who drove I-94 back and forth once a week from Delafield to I-90 and back up until a few months ago, I can tell you that it absolutely needs a third lane. Traffic is a mess CTH-SS to CTH-F going west, and from CTH-N to WI-89 going east. At that point, it makes sense to just to the entire length. It may be light mid-days and at night, but traffic is pretty gnarly during drive times and weekend.
I'm wonder how things will be changing up here as people in metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland start discovering en-mass that it is now shorter and faster to take US(I)-41/US 45/US 10 between Milwaukee and Stevens Point than it is to use the all-interstate routing via Madison and Portage when going to and from the northwoods.
:hmmm:
Mike
Not for those of us who live south and west of Chicago. Why would I go through Chicagoland, past O'Hare and brave the Tri-State when I can go west to I-39 and avoid all that craziness? It might work well if you live in Lake County or north Cook County.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2013, 11:45:29 AM
Quote from: mrose on May 28, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 27, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Given the work on other routes, I'm mildly surprised that US-14 between Darien and Madison hasn't gotten more consideration than it has. There's a fair amount of truck traffic (particularly east of Janesville) and heavy commuter traffic (particularly Evansville north to Madison). It's also the most obvious alternative between Janesville and Madison for the upcoming I-39/90 expansion. It may not need 4-laning west of County H to Evansville yet, but the rest of the stretch has the traffic to warrant it.
I have been hoping for the better part of 20 years that WI 11 / US 14 between I-90/39 and I-43 would at the very least be closely looked at for expansion. That was always the preferred route for Janesville-Milwaukee traffic IMO. I'd be curious to see how much southbound I-43 traffic from Milwaukee exits at US 14 west versus how much heads to Beloit. Since Beloit got the interstate proper, then Janesville should at least have an expressway connection to 43.
I've always felt like US 14 through Wisconsin took a backseat to US 12 and was perhaps under-constructed somewhat as a result.
I'm wondering if WIDOT thinks a lot of the Janesville to Milwaukee traffic will take WI-26 instead. It is only slightly longer, and once it is done and ramps up to 65 mph, it will probably be faster.
That being said, WIDOT is studying the corridor. Here is the site.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/1411/
Looks as though the study of the section west of Janesville has been suspended indefinitely. The eastern section has some alternatives and they are currently doing the EIS.
The section in question only refers to connecting Hwy 11 to Hwy 14 on the west side and widening west to County H. It does not include any widening northwesterly towards Oregon. As far as I can tell, WisDOT has never been interested in widening that stretch, aside from north of WI-92.
I agree WisDOT likely expects drivers to favor the WI-26/I-94 route to Milwaukee over US-14/I-43. Thing is, aside from the 2-lane stretch of US-14, the US-14/I-43 routing is comparable or faster unless your final destination is in Waukesha County.
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 29, 2013, 11:29:35 PM
The section in question only refers to connecting Hwy 11 to Hwy 14 on the west side and widening west to County H. It does not include any widening northwesterly towards Oregon. As far as I can tell, WisDOT has never been interested in widening that stretch, aside from north of WI-92.
I agree WisDOT likely expects drivers to favor the WI-26/I-94 route to Milwaukee over US-14/I-43. Thing is, aside from the 2-lane stretch of US-14, the US-14/I-43 routing is comparable or faster unless your final destination is in Waukesha County.
We always used 11/14 and 43 to get to Milwaukee from the west side of Janesville. We never went the other way at all. For whatever reason, I never thought to, although this was well before any of WI-26 was upgraded at all and before most of the bypasses.
West of Janesville, I don't think 14 needs much upgrading, certainly not to Evansville. I'd go ahead and build the freeway originally planned in the 70s from Oregon south to about WI-92 though, since they have the ROW, but that's probably enough.
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 29, 2013, 11:29:35 PM
I agree WisDOT likely expects drivers to favor the WI-26/I-94 route to Milwaukee over US-14/I-43. Thing is, aside from the 2-lane stretch of US-14, the US-14/I-43 routing is comparable or faster unless your final destination is in Waukesha County.
Downtown Janesville to downtown Milwaukee via WI-11/US-14 is 75.8 miles, via WI-26 is 78.9 miles. Google has the US-14 route as about 5 minutes faster. This will obviously change when the Milton bypass is complete, but I can't imagine that it will make up 5 minutes.
Especially since traffic on I-43 is generally lighter and faster than I-94.
Quote from: GeekJedi on May 28, 2013, 07:05:09 PM
As someone who drove I-94 back and forth once a week from Delafield to I-90 and back up until a few months ago, I can tell you that it absolutely needs a third lane. Traffic is a mess CTH-SS to CTH-F going west, and from CTH-N to WI-89 going east. At that point, it makes sense to just to the entire length. It may be light mid-days and at night, but traffic is pretty gnarly during drive times and weekend.
I've driven 94 enough over the years to see it in all kinds of traffic conditions and I've never seen justification for more lanes west of Oconomowoc. Frankly there are very few places outside of Metro Milwaukee in Wisconsin where existing freeways really need more lanes right now that are not currently under construction. Especially in the context of all the other non-freeway/expressway road improvement projects that are needed in cities and towns across the state. For the price of six-laning I-94 to Madison, I'd rather see 3 dozen main streets reconstructed and a handful of super-2 community bypasses.
While I don't think you'll find anyone who'd disagree, the funding for "Main St." and six-laning are mutually exclusive under current law. One doesn't affect the other. So improving freeways such as I-94 that do have traffic issues makes sense. It's an important corridor.
One could even argue that 90/94 needs to be 6 lanes at the very least to Wisconsin Dells if not all the way to the split at Tomah. Personally, I am hoping for the latter. Traffic on Sundays coming back from NW Wisconsin, Eau Claire, St Paul, La Crosse etc is really heavy on 90/94 in that section that there have been times where it has taken over an hour for me to get from Tomah to the Dells.
At least they are working on widening 39/90 from Illinois to Madison.
I haven't been on 94 west of oconomowoc very much, but when I have the traffic was pretty bad. Another section of freeway that could use 3 lanes is us41 north of the us41/45 Richfield split, at least until wi 60 at slinger. The whole corridor from Green Bay to Milwaukee can be a little rough at times, even in the rural eat of parts. Though, at the moment much of the corridor is ok. I would still like 6 lanes to slinger, no overpasses or unerpasses would have to be replaced if I'm not mistaken, as everything except for a few creek bridges are wide enough. This is true for the entire corridor to Oshkosh except for the Cty N interchange in northern fdl county and the wi 144 interchange in slinger. The fond du lac segment should have been built as 6 lanes when it was upgraded about 10 years ago or so? At least they planned for 6 lanes and built extra wide river crossings.
QuoteWhile I don't think you'll find anyone who'd disagree, the funding for "Main St." and six-laning are mutually exclusive under current law.
Are they really? Which law would that be?
Quote from: froggie on June 03, 2013, 04:48:11 AM
QuoteWhile I don't think you'll find anyone who'd disagree, the funding for "Main St." and six-laning are mutually exclusive under current law.
Are they really? Which law would that be?
Not really mutually exclusive, but the federal funding pot for Interstate maintenance (I-Maint) is restrictive funding, whereas the potential funding pot for "Main Street" usually comes from less restrictive sources. Interstate funding can, but usually does not, come from a less restrictive pot, b/c there is a lot of competition for those funds, whereas I-Maint has no competitors other than interstate highways.
Additionally, Main St. is generally funded by the cities, while state funding is reserved for state roads. Any state funding for local roads comes in the form of "assistance" from the state.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/localgov/highways/lrip.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/localgov/highways/lrip.htm)
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2013, 03:32:12 PMI strongly believe that I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee should have been expanded to six lanes before WI-26 was expanded to four.
And IMHO, US 12 should have been finished between I-43 and I-39/90 before WI 26 was started.
Also IMHO, instead of looking at upgrading US 14 between Janesville and I-43, WISDOT should look at a facility along CH A that would tie into the northern end of the existing US 12 freeway. It would kill two needs with one facility.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 08, 2013, 10:41:16 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2013, 03:32:12 PMI strongly believe that I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee should have been expanded to six lanes before WI-26 was expanded to four.
And IMHO, US 12 should have been finished between I-43 and I-39/90 before WI 26 was started.
Also IMHO, instead of looking at upgrading US 14 between Janesville and I-43, WISDOT should look at a facility along CH A that would tie into the northern end of the existing US 12 freeway. It would kill two needs with one facility.
There is actually a group in Whitewater that is trying to fast-track the funding for the "shortcut" between Elkhorn and Whitewater.
Quote from: mrose on May 28, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 27, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Given the work on other routes, I'm mildly surprised that US-14 between Darien and Madison hasn't gotten more consideration than it has. There's a fair amount of truck traffic (particularly east of Janesville) and heavy commuter traffic (particularly Evansville north to Madison). It's also the most obvious alternative between Janesville and Madison for the upcoming I-39/90 expansion. It may not need 4-laning west of County H to Evansville yet, but the rest of the stretch has the traffic to warrant it.
I have been hoping for the better part of 20 years that WI 11 / US 14 between I-90/39 and I-43 would at the very least be closely looked at for expansion. That was always the preferred route for Janesville-Milwaukee traffic IMO. I'd be curious to see how much southbound I-43 traffic from Milwaukee exits at US 14 west versus how much heads to Beloit. Since Beloit got the interstate proper, then Janesville should at least have an expressway connection to 43.
I've always felt like US 14 through Wisconsin took a backseat to US 12 and was perhaps under-constructed somewhat as a result.
I agree about US 14. Try finding an open passing zone on US 14 between Middleton and Gotham, Oregon and Evansville, or Janesville and Darien. Does it need to be converted to a freeway? Maybe not, but some extended four-lane sections would certainly help.
I've found those passing zones occasionally on US-14, but definitely not routinely. I'll add west of Janesville to County H as a place passing is difficult to impossible, particularly during the morning and evening commute.
If IDOT and WisDOt ever got their acts together, the US-12 corridor would make sense as a toll road. Since they've already heavily invested in 6-laning I-90, and the other obvious issues in punching a tollway through the NW suburbs, I don't see this happening anytime soon.