Who still drives a stick-shift?
I do. But now at least here in the US over 80% of new cars are automatic. Many models are not even available with a manual transmission, that you would think would at least have the option ( ie Nissan Titan Pick-up) Even those that have a base model with a manual, its hard to find one at the dealership. We bought a 2007 Hyundai Sonata and we wanted a 5 speed. The local dealers would have 1 or 2 in the back of the lot and the sales people were almost shocked that we WANTED a 5 speed.
I have a 2002 Hyundai Elantra GT that is a 5 speed. I like driving manual transmission. I think that it makes you pay a bit more attention to the road and gives some additional control. Gas mileage differential between automatic and manual is not an issue like it was in the past. But having a stick shift is almost like an additional security; car thieves don't know how to drive stick shift. There was the episode of bait car where the criminal was dumfounded by the stick... couldn't figure out how to put in drive. A lady I worked with told me about her brother having an attempt to steal his BMW from the parking garage at work... the kid was bucking and jumping until the cops got there
I prefer automatic, I'm terrible at driving stick, but I can see how people like it over automatic, you have a little more control over the car. I'm more comfortable driving an automatic, less things to think about.
All three of ours are manuals (2004 Acura TL and 2003 Acura RSX Type-S both have 6MT,* 1988 Mazda RX-7 has 5MT). I've never owned a car with an automatic and have never had any interest in owning one. When I do drive one, usually a service loaner from the Acura dealer, I find I'm uncomfortable because of the unfamiliar kick-down feature and because my left foot has nothing to do. I learned on a manual almost from the beginning–when I got my learner's permit, my mom had a Volvo sedan with an automatic and my dad had a Honda Accord with a 5-speed. I drove the Volvo maybe twice before Dad started teaching me the manual. Aside from learning to start on a hill, the part I found hardest was mastering the 5th-to-4th downshift.
I did, however, take the DMV road test in my mother's Volvo precisely because it had the automatic. It was one less thing to screw up. (Plus my 16th birthday was on a Wednesday and my father had driven the Accord to work anyway.) The other thing is, technically it's illegal in Virginia to shift into neutral as you coast to a stop at a stop sign or red light because doing so means you're "coasting in neutral," which a statute prohibits. Of course just about everyone who drives a manual does that out of habit, but I didn't want some overzealous DMV employee flunking me for it. I understand in the UK, and in some other countries, that you get a restricted license if you pass the test driving an automatic, but I've never heard of any US state having that rule.
The RX-7 is parked on the curb around the corner and I sometimes have to jumpstart it. When I do, I use a spare key and then I take the portable jumpstarter back to the garage or I pull the other car back to the garage; in either case, I just leave the car running and lock the keys inside. I could probably just leave it unlocked, though, for precisely the reason "jwolfer" mentions–joyriding kids and thieves don't know how to drive a manual.
The other cars I've owned were a 1977 Ford Granada (4MT), a 1982 Honda Accord (5MT), a 1986 Acura Legend (5MT), and a 1997 Honda Accord (5MT). After learning to drive on the 1982 Accord, adjusting to the Granada was damn difficult. Much longer-throw shift. I stalled it umpteen times when I first tried to drive it because I was used to a much tighter shift pattern. A few years later my father sold me the Accord and got himself a 1991 Accord with a 4AT (because my mother preferred an automatic). I remember it being funny to watch him sitting on his right hand to try to break himself of the habit of basically always having one hand on the shifter.
*"xMT" being standard notation I see on car fora to distinguish from "yAT," the former denoting "x-speed manual transmission" and the latter denoting "y-speed automatic transmission."
Flappy-paddle gearboxs FTW! (even though I don't own a car with one)
cough: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4006.msg89194
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 31, 2013, 01:45:59 PM
Flappy-paddle gearboxs FTW! (even though I don't own a car with one)
cough: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4006.msg89194
Cannot agree. I much prefer the act of shifting, including using the clutch; flicking a flappy paddle doesn't cut it, it's one step away from an autotragic.
right now, my car is an automatic, but I can drive stick. I'll be getting a Jeep and that will have a manual transmission. that's a necessity for going off-road.
I prefer to drive with a manual transmission. In addition to giving me greater control over the vehicle's operation and generally more of a driving experience, it reduces the maintenance headache. Of the seven new vehicles I've had in my life, two have had automatic transmissions, only because they could not be ordered with manual transmissions in the US.
I prefer to drive a manual transmission. My current car has a manual transmission (5-speed) (2011 Dodge Caliber), and sips gas fairly well, but I can pull the power out of its engine (2.0L) rather well. I don't really find it all that hard to drive in heavy stop and go traffic either.
I learned on a manual, 1981 Dodge Aries, but took my driving test (Secretary of State in Illinois) in my parents' 1993 Dodge Spirit.
Both my current cars (both Preludes, as I'm sure you all know) have manual transmissions; the Type SH was only available with it. The 93 has a stock clutch and a short throw shifter, while the 97 has a much heavier clutch with a stock shifter, so they're two different driving experiences. My first two cars were automatics...I don't really miss it.
My current car is an automatic (2002 Jeep Liberty), but two of my prior cars (1997 Jeep Wrangler, 1990 Dodge Colt) were manuals and I vastly prefer driving them. I inherited the Liberty, so I can't complain, but I do strongly dislike automatics.
I'm going to be buying either a Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze, or Chevy Sonic this summer and will insist on a manual during that purchase.
When I drive cars with flappy paddles/autosticks I always forget to shift. If my left leg isn't involved, I just assume drive an automatic.
Does anyone actually use the paddles or manual override? All the automatics I've driven I've left the stick in the D position and had no need to intervene.
My '02 Honda Civic EX has a 5-speed manual transmission. I love to shift, been doing it since I learned a stick in my brother's Pinto in 70's while still in high school, and my primary car has been manual since the 70's. Unfortunately since I am now in my 50's and since my knee sometimes gets a bit sore in stop and go traffic in the Atlanta area, my next car will probably be an automatic.
I learned manual from day one, so driving automatic just doesn't feel right to me. I don't plan to change in the foreseeable future, and yes, that means some car models get scratched from the list because they don't offer it.
I wish I had a car with a stick... My model of choice for the next one we buy hasn't come with a stick in quite a number of years, so I'll likely be stuck with an automatic for some time to come.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 31, 2013, 02:52:08 PM
Does anyone actually use the paddles or manual override? All the automatics I've driven I've left the stick in the D position and had no need to intervene.
I've switched to lower gears both in mountainous driving and in winter weather. And it's an
especially good idea when you find yourself in a combination of the two!
I want to make sure to buy a stick on my next car, because after that I'll hopefully have a family, which pretty much requires an automatic because you can't really get practical family vehicles with an automatic or I'll either way probably want to get something with more utility. I suspect in the car after that, it'll probably be impossible to get a stick.
So I'm insisting on getting a stick this time around, because odds are stacked against ever buying another new car with a manual.
QuoteDoes anyone actually use the paddles or manual override? All the automatics I've driven I've left the stick in the D position and had no need to intervene.
I use them on mountain passes and in snow sometimes- especially useful for driving uphill without ending up in that RPM range where the transmission constantly shifts back and forth and for descending steep, icy grades.
I prefer a true manual in snow, especially deep snow though- being able to modulate the torque going to the wheels with the clutch is hugely helpful.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 31, 2013, 02:52:08 PM
Does anyone actually use the paddles or manual override? All the automatics I've driven I've left the stick in the D position and had no need to intervene.
I tried using the paddles in a 2012 Acura TSX service loaner. I found it distracting.
When I took the DMV road test, I did shift the automatic down into first gear. The route went through a trailer park where the speed limit was 15 mph. Putting the automatic in first helped prevent me from inadvertently exceeding the speed limit.
I've used the lockout device on automatic-shift cars fairly often (usually when I was driving one of my mother's Volvos on a particular road near their house that has two steep hills). I found doing that was more akin to controlling the downshift on a manual compared with trying to make the thing kick down a gear. I hate getting stuck on uphills behind people who are very clearly automatic-transmission drivers and who have absolutely no concept of how to force the transmission to select a lower gear going up a hill.
(For that matter, how many of you find that automatic-shift drivers accelerate differently from manual-shift drivers because many of them have no concept of the transmission shifting gears?)
Quote(For that matter, how many of you find that automatic-shift drivers accelerate differently from manual-shift drivers because many of them have no concept of the transmission shifting gears?)
This is why I think everybody should be required to learn to drive a stick. If you have a concept of how transmissions work and how gearing works, I feel like you're a lot less likely to burn out your automatic transmission over a short lifetime.
But maybe that doesn't matter...I drove my parents brand new Focus with an automatic the other day, and the transmission shifts are nearly imperceptible.
Quote from: corco on May 31, 2013, 03:13:33 PM
This is why I think everybody should be required to learn to drive a stick. If you have a concept of how transmissions work and how gearing works, I feel like you're a lot less likely to burn out your automatic transmission over a short lifetime.
how do you burn out an automatic, unless you're pushing to the limiter on every gear? most people when they accelerate will just give a moderate pressure and the transmission will perform precisely as it is intended, switching up a gear at the top end of the engine's comfort zone (say, 3000rpm when cruising is about 2250 and redline is 5250).
I prefer manual too. Mostly for the reasons already cited up thread. I also like it because I know I'll have control of something. Far too many new cars have too much automatic crap (rain sensing windshield wipers, automatic lights, automatic braking and cruise control adjustment). I, like others here, feel out of place when I do drive an automatic. I occasionally catch myself looking for the non existent clutch pedal to depress to keep from stalling as I approach a red light or stop sign. While manuals can be a bit annoying in stop and go traffic or when I'm tired and don't feel like shifting gears. But overall, I wouldn't give it up unless I had to.
If you watch "Amazing Race" its funny to see Americans get in the European or Asian rental cars and not know how to drive a stick shift... maybe I will win the million dollars if I ever get on the show
All of my family's cars were manual...after getting my learner's permit, with only the experience of driving up and down my mom's driveway, my dad made me drive home from the DMV in his manual Volkswagen Vanagon...still one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. Took the driver's test in my mom's BMW (also stick), my first car ('72 Volkswagen Squareback) was a stick, so all the cars I've bought since have been stick (I had a manual '72 Ford Maverick for a couple of years that I inherited from my great-aunt)...I like stick better for all the same reasons people have listed above.
However, as someone else also mentioned, since my next car will be a "family" car, I may very well go automatic for that.
I've owned mostly manual cars: 1977 Ford pickup truck, 1993 Ford Probe, 1992 Mazda 323. I now have an automatic, but it's the first one in several cars that I've owned. Growing up, we always had a VW Beetle or two so I got to drive a bunch of them. We also had a 1973 VW Type 3 Fastback (coupe version of the Squareback) that I put many a mile on. My dad had a lot of trucks with manuals, both granny gear 4 speeds and 3s on the tree. We also had a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (Chevy Cavalier sibling) with a 4 speed manual that I drove a lot and that was a lot of fun.
I had two manuals - a 1988 Ford Festiva with a 4MT and a 1987 Honda Civic 4WD with a 6MT. They always outlasted the automatics I had.
The next car I get will have a manual in it if I can help it. However, my next vehicle will likely be a motorscooter with an automatic.
Whoa, you had an 87 Honda with a 6 speed?
I am the opposite of most people here: I have never driven a stick and never really had an opportunity to learn since no one in my family owned one. By now I have had my license for seven years and it has become firmly entrenched in my mind that a car simply accelerates and brakes. The idea of shifting gears beyond P/R/N/D/L just seems weird to me on an intuitive level, even though I am well aware on a conscious level that "D" is actually multiple gears and that the car needs to change its gear ratios as it speeds up and slows down in order to keep the speed/torque relationship in order.
So, since you've never driven a stick, just out of curiosity does it bother you when a car is between gears when driving up a hill? Or do you not even notice?
I learned how to drive in a Buick LeSabre, and never had a car of my own in high school, so I didn't learn how to drive manual until I was twenty-one in Afghanistan, driving a Toyota Land Cruiser around the base. I'd like to have a manual transmission for my next car so I can experience the, well, experience of daily-driving a manual. I'm looking to either get a similarly-equipped Focus manual, or a new Fusion SE with the special-order-only manual.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 31, 2013, 03:24:09 PM
how do you burn out an automatic, unless you're pushing to the limiter on every gear?
Simple. You drive a Honda with an automatic made between 1997 and 2002 and it just randomly breaks on its own! :-D
As others have said, I'd prefer my next car to be newer and a manual as well, which doesn't give me many choices. The biggest new car I can think of that offers one is the Accord V6 sedan, or maybe one of its competitors.
Learned on stick, 3 on the tree. I did not own and almost never drove an auto until 15 years later I bought a used full size Chev PU. I still own my 1973 Corvette which I bought new. It has a 4 speed close ratio, 370 gears, with the L82, and by today's standards a killer clutch to push. I ride a motorcycle also and can't imagine riding a motorcycle with an automatic.
I prefer the stick on the floor for almost all driving. It is handier on the floor. I believe it makes you more in tune with the vehicle and gives you a better feel of the total environment around you, especially on less than perfect surfaces. However, for traffic and backing a trailer the auto is handy. My wife's Town and Country has the "slap" stick auto. I have used that feature a lot in the mountains until the manual down shift stopped working. Now it is almost dangerous in the Rockies without being able to down shift to save the brakes. It is being warranted out.
My parents had manuals when I was growing up. My first two cars were automatics, but the first one I bought with my own funds was a manual, and I took it to 202,000 miles. The Cobalt I currently own is a manual, and it's much more responsive than the automatic versions I've driven.
After driving stick for 10 years, I was in the habit of holding higher gears and using throttle to accelerate in regular driving. It's an adjustment driving an automatic (a Ford Five Hundred), because my normal reflex to floor the throttle out of it; I'm then surprised when it does a 6-3 downshift and jerks ahead with 2 or 3 times the acceleration I intended. Other times, I'm annoyed when the downshifts don't come fast enough or the transmission stays in 2nd instead of shifting down to 1st coming to a stop. It's really a good automatic; it just took me a while to get used to its behavior.
My personal preference is to drive a manual, and I'm happy to buy them when it's an option.
Quote from: corco on May 31, 2013, 10:04:24 PM
Whoa, you had an 87 Honda with a 6 speed?
It was advertised as a 5 and geared like a 5, but had a lower gear past 1st (which I actually put to use once or twice pulling cars out of ditches.) My nephew used to call it a 'granny gear.'
I've had a manual on half my cars, including my current vehicle. Just more fun and more involving.
I learned on the family's automatic but a buddy had a stick so as soon as I had my license.....I was driving that too.
My little sister on the other hand, learned on my future bother-in-law's Z-28 (& that's ZED-28). The first time she got in my automatic she had to ask "what do I do next??"
Quote from: Duke87 on May 31, 2013, 10:31:31 PM
I am the opposite of most people here: I have never driven a stick and never really had an opportunity to learn since no one in my family owned one.
You are not the only one here; when I was learning to drive the last manual car in the family got traded in for an automatic. But after suffering on I-44 through Missouri with an automatic that waits too long to downshift, and then experience the same problem at a much greater level on EB I-70 through Colorado, I'd certainly like to learn to drive a manual. Though I'd also like to try a continuously variable transmission once for comparison.
I've heard bad things about CVTs. The engine revs at a constant RPM and emits a droney sound. Performance isn't as good as with a typical slushbox either.
What is depressing to me is that Ferrari no longer offers a car with a manual transmission (paddle shifters do not count.)
I do in fact use the manual override on automatics, I'll normally shift out of overdrive going up or down steep hills, when I'm about to pass, etc. I learned on a manual (but don't miss them one bit) so maybe that's why I do whereas my sister, who's never driven a manual, never takes hers out of drive.
Quote from: bugo on June 02, 2013, 10:37:46 AM
What is depressing to me is that Ferrari no longer offers a car with a manual transmission (paddle shifters do not count.)
I don't doubt part of that is that the paddles are considered high-tech by many Europeans because of the association with F1.
More generally, Confucius say: Baby conceived in back seat of car with automatic transmission grow up to be shiftless bastard.
1995hoo,
Love your back seat quote.
The only time I manually shift my automatic is if I'm passing and it doesn't automatically kick down and during snowy and icy weather where I'll put the lever in 2nd and take off in second gear.
Quote from: bugo on June 02, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
I've heard bad things about CVTs. The engine revs at a constant RPM and emits a droney sound. Performance isn't as good as with a typical slushbox either.
Based on my 2011 Prius and 2005 Civic Hybrid, both with CVT's: They do no such thing. Engine speeds rise and fall with gas-pedal position, just like with any car. In normal mode (the Prius has a "power" mode available by pushing a button) their acceleration is dialed back a bit, but in the long run that trains you to drive with a lighter touch on the gas, and that's part of the reason why they get such good gas mileage.
My current car (2010 Mazda 3) is an automatic. It has a manual mode that I've used in heavy traffic to prevent having to "ride the brakes" all the time. At times I've wished that it had a manual, I had two Honda civics that were 5 speed manuals and were fun to drive. From what I read these new dual clutch "automatic manuals" can shift better than most people.
Mark
Quote from: bugo on June 02, 2013, 10:37:46 AM
What is depressing to me is that Ferrari no longer offers a car with a manual transmission (paddle shifters do not count.)
You're considering not getting a Ferrari now? ... :)
Quote from: pctech on June 03, 2013, 07:37:44 AM
My current car (2010 Mazda 3) is an automatic. It has a manual mode that I've used in heavy traffic to prevent having to "ride the brakes" all the time.
I forgot about that application. Yes, I've popped the automatic into a lower gear in traffic jams before, as well.
I know how to drive a stick shift but prefer automatic. The gas mileage is the same, the performance is the same, and driving in traffic is much easier.
My wife has a CVT in her Nissan Murano, and I drive Altimas with CVTs as rentals regularly. They're great. It's neat accelerating without the engine revving up.
Quote from: bugo on June 02, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
I've heard bad things about CVTs. The engine revs at a constant RPM and emits a droney sound. Performance isn't as good as with a typical slushbox either.
They've gone a long way towards quelling the noise and reliability in a lot of CVTs, but sometimes they do sound as if they've dropped two gears, and won't upshift properly. But it tries its best to out-think someone who drives a manual car. For fuel economy, they're perfect, but for spirited driving, it leaves something to be desired. Braking performance is s little odd, if you're on flat terrain, since it doesn't respond quite like typical power braking systems do (very all-or-nothing, if you need to brake rapidly). I will say they're great at dealing with steep downhill climbs, if it offers an "overdrive off" button like some current Nissans do. Basically, they've come a long way, but there's some ways left to go.
Dual-clutch autos are quicker than stick, and many conventional autos have dissolved the performance gap (even inverted gap, in many high-performance applications) between manual and automatic transmissions. But in most older, low-price-end, or low-powered vehicles, it makes a less interesting vehicle a little more enthusiastic (and usually quicker)...but the manual's demise is due to a lack of demand.
Quote from: formulanone on June 03, 2013, 02:23:37 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 02, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
I've heard bad things about CVTs. The engine revs at a constant RPM and emits a droney sound. Performance isn't as good as with a typical slushbox either.
They've gone a long way towards quelling the noise and reliability in a lot of CVTs, but sometimes they do sound as if they've dropped two gears, and won't upshift properly. But it tries its best to out-think someone who drives a manual car. For fuel economy, they're perfect, but for spirited driving, it leaves something to be desired. Braking performance is s little odd, if you're on flat terrain, since it doesn't respond quite like typical power braking systems do (very all-or-nothing, if you need to brake rapidly). I will say they're great at dealing with steep downhill climbs, if it offers an "overdrive off" button like some current Nissans do. Basically, they've come a long way, but there's some ways left to go.
I just bought a new Nissan Rogue, and was convinced by taking a 600 mile "test drive" in a rental. The transmission takes a little getting used to, and I think some of the performance concerns are perceptions by the driver that not feeling the engine drop to a lower gear than actually needed with a lurch means the car is underpowered. I was very pleasantly surprised taking it into the mountains, both with uphill power and (as you referenced) the ability to use the overdrive-off button for downhill downshifting. I'm taking a long road trip soon and I'm looking forward to seeing if my opinions above are borne out when, for instance, passing on 2-lane roads.
I had considered the Jeep Compass, since its CVT offers manual shifting as an option (thus more options for downshifting on steep grades), but was put off by its reliability ratings.
To respond to the OP, I had at least one stick shift vehicle from age 18 until just a few years ago, when I unloaded my Jetta in favor of a car with automatic.
I remember back in the "olden days" Chrysler's push button, 727, at the drags came in very close to manuals. They were tough too.
I've only ever owned automatic cars. However, when my fiancé Mike and I were just friends, I had him teach me how to drive a stick shift in his 1998 VW new beetle. It was a lot of fun driving a stick shift, but he replaced that car with an automatic after it died at 263,000 miles.
The only downside I found to driving a stick shift is the constant shifting when stuck in traffic or when driving in urban areas.
Quote from: Laura Bianca on June 13, 2013, 01:58:19 AM
The only downside I found to driving a stick shift is the constant shifting when stuck in traffic or when driving in urban areas.
It's all I have ever had - and I drive a lot in the (often congested) Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.
Because I am so used to the congestion, having to shift does not bother me at all.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 13, 2013, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: Laura Bianca on June 13, 2013, 01:58:19 AM
The only downside I found to driving a stick shift is the constant shifting when stuck in traffic or when driving in urban areas.
Because I am so used to the congestion, having to shift does not bother me at all.
It's not too bad for a 10-15 minute traffic jam, but really annoying for a two-hour stop-and-go crawl. You try for that rare chance to slide into 3rd gear, which makes one feel a sense of accomplishment.
Quote from: formulanone on June 13, 2013, 07:44:03 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 13, 2013, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: Laura Bianca on June 13, 2013, 01:58:19 AM
The only downside I found to driving a stick shift is the constant shifting when stuck in traffic or when driving in urban areas.
Because I am so used to the congestion, having to shift does not bother me at all.
It's not too bad for a 10-15 minute traffic jam, but really annoying for a two-hour stop-and-go crawl. You try for that rare chance to slide into 3rd gear, which makes one feel a sense of accomplishment.
Tell me about it. That's how I felt on the Tri-State Tollway Wednesday morning due to some moron deciding it was a good idea to have a crash up by the Rosemont Exit. Went from 1st to 2nd and back again from the Cermak Road cashbox up to there. :ded:
I did I lot of my learning how to drive in my grandfather's old van and it was a manual, so I know how to use them and I have needed to on occasion, but my car is an automatic.
Quote from: corco on May 31, 2013, 10:48:28 PM
So, since you've never driven a stick, just out of curiosity does it bother you when a car is between gears when driving up a hill? Or do you not even notice?
What does "between gears" even mean?
I do notice that sometimes my car doesn't kick into higher gear as desired when I'm trying to accelerate and instead just revs up (often a hill is involved). The remedy for this is to push down on the gas more. Then the transmission gets the message. :D
Quote from: Duke87 on June 13, 2013, 08:58:29 PM
What does "between gears" even mean?
What he's refering to is because of the speed of your vehicle and the incline the transmission is constantly upshifting and downshifting. A driver on that same hill in a manual transmission car would remain in the lower gear and keep a firm press on the throttle and not upshift until cresting the hill.
I noticed the constant upshifting and downshifting on the minivan I rentted this past weekend. It also waited too long to downshift (I'd lose 5-6 mph from the 72 I had the cruise set at before it would downshift to pick up speed). It began to really irk me after a while. I then flipped over into the paddle shifter and did the shifting myself.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 13, 2013, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: Laura Bianca on June 13, 2013, 01:58:19 AM
The only downside I found to driving a stick shift is the constant shifting when stuck in traffic or when driving in urban areas.
It's all I have ever had - and I drive a lot in the (often congested) Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.
Because I am so used to the congestion, having to shift does not bother me at all.
Same here. I find my right leg gets more fatigued from constantly holding the brake pedal than my left leg does from the clutch, mainly because if I'm stopped in traffic I'll put it in neutral and take my foot off the clutch. Holding the brake would be something you'd do regardless of transmission type (unless the traffic is so bad you wind up setting the handbrake, of course).
I have had two stick, and 3 automatics, in order AUto,stick,auto,auto,stick. my current car is a 2003 Eclipse GS with a 2.4L SOHC 16V 4 cyl and a 5 speed stick, with that motor you want a stickshift so you can keep it up in the rev band.
Quote from: signalman on June 14, 2013, 04:07:45 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on June 13, 2013, 08:58:29 PM
What does "between gears" even mean?
What he's refering to is because of the speed of your vehicle and the incline the transmission is constantly upshifting and downshifting. A driver on that same hill in a manual transmission car would remain in the lower gear and keep a firm press on the throttle and not upshift until cresting the hill.
I've only ever owned autos, though I've driven a friend's manual Cavalier a few times. It's fun, but I like having the ability to not worry about shifting if I need to. That said, my car has a manumatic (and it won't force upshift, it'll let you hold the gear until you bounce off the rev limiter if you wanted to), and I find myself often sitting in 2nd or 3rd gear (4 speed... really hankering for another gear between 2nd and 3rd) when I'm in slow moving traffic. I also like any transmission which at least gives you the option of forcing a gear, because sometimes you need to be smarter than the transmission. Case in point, I was driving the family Explorer up CA 79 and 78 on the way towards 86 this week. It never did seem to pick the proper gear in the curves and hills, so I just picked 2nd or 3rd manually. It was useful for climbing, and it was useful for keeping my speed under control while descending as well. If left to its own devices, the transmission would keep forcing itself up to 4th (or even 5th) if I even let up on the gas a little bit.
I personally would like to see ferrari-style clutchless paddle systems on more vehicles. It has a clutch, so you get rid of the power-sapping torque converter, but it still has computer control if you want it, so you can leave it in auto if you don't feel like constantly shifting. I've also become a bit of a fan of CVTs. I had a loaner Subaru Legacy with a CVT while my car was in for service. It's amazing how much better the same engine (2.5L N/A H-4) felt with the CVT compared to the 4-speed auto on my Outback. It was like night and day. Acceleration was awesome... you'd floor it to merge or pass, and it would get the engine into its peak power band and just hold it there until you let up on the gas, so you were constantly accelerating.
We just had two new-hire Arkansas techs come up to our Wichita office yesterday to pick up their work trucks. One of the pickups was a stickshift, and neither tech knew how to drive stick. So the boss gave the one guy a quick lesson in the parking lot, had him practice driving around the building and in a nearby neighborhood. Then they left in the afternoon to drive back to Arkansas, and both guys are running a route today.
Which is all well and good, but.... Learning to use a clutch in flatland Wichita is one thing, coming off the line in the Arkansas hills is another thing. Cross your fingers, guys...
I hope he taught the guy the "handbrake trick" for starting on a hill.
I drive a stick shift, and I don't think I could ever go back to an automatic.
A lot of times when I am stopped at a light on a hill I will try and balance the clutch and the gas so that I am not moving forward nor backward. I am sure that isn't good for the clutch, but it's fun to try and find the sweet spot. Plus it helps when I'm stopped on a steep incline and the guy behind me is riding my bumper.
It's very bad for the clutch, actually.
^ I know, but I love feeling that connected to my car.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 15, 2013, 10:30:22 PM
It's very bad for the clutch, actually.
If I am on an uphill, my technique in my truck (with six speed manual transmission) is to leave the clutch pedal out and my right foot on the brake. When I see traffic ahead of me start to move, I disengage the clutch, put the transmission in First, and engage gently, so I start to roll forward slowly with no throttle (First has an extremely low gear ratio, it is intended for pulling stumps). When I get going more than 2 or 3 MPH, I give it more throttle and shift up to Second. That technique has allowed me over 100,000 miles per clutch (and I drive a lot in congested Washington, D.C. conditions).
That's great with a granny gear- but yeah. When I lived in Seattle with a stick (streets as steep as San Francisco's, for those unfamiliar), I'd use the e-brake method- shift into first as normal while slowly disengaging the emergency brake instead of the clutch- that works with a hand brake; that would be really hard if you had a foot brake. Fortunately most modern vehicles with foot brakes and manual transmissions are trucks like yours that have a granny gear.
Quote from: corco on June 16, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
That's great with a granny gear- but yeah. When I lived in Seattle with a stick (streets as steep as San Francisco's, for those unfamiliar), I'd use the e-brake method- shift into first as normal while slowly disengaging the emergency brake instead of the clutch- that works with a hand brake; that would be really hard if you had a foot brake. Fortunately most modern vehicles with foot brakes and manual transmissions are trucks like yours that have a granny gear.
Never been in the state of Washington, but I have experienced the steep grades in San Francisco.
Where I normally drive, in and around D.C., there are a few places with pretty steep grades leading up to signalized intersections, such as Wisconsin Avenue, N.W. which runs from the Potomac River in Georgetown up a set of fairly steep hills (not as steep as San Francisco) to Massachusetts Avenue, where the National Cathedral is located.
Then there's 13th Street, N.W. northbound between Florida Avenue and Clifton Street, which is quite steep (and has a light at the top of the hill - GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=13th+street,+n.w.+and+euclid+street,+n.w.+washington,+d.c.&ll=38.920606,-77.029675&spn=0.002333,0.004823&hnear=13th+St+NW+%26+Euclid+St+NW,+Washington,+District+of+Columbia+20009&gl=us&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.920606,-77.029675&panoid=1ffv_quXcYs-15LaLTAEzw&cbp=12,351.84,,0,13.62)).
Md. 650 (New Hampshire Avenue) has an assortment of reasonably steep hills between the Maryland/D.C. border and I-495 with plenty of traffic signals mixed-in (GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=38.971897,-76.997788&spn=0.004663,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.971581,-76.998196&panoid=9tU3ziEngcFV5By1yaBgPQ&cbp=12,40.44,,0,22.42), here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=38.980354,-76.989623&spn=0.004696,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.980428,-76.989557&panoid=A0sXS7mh9FkTVM9u_NWhgg&cbp=12,25.71,,0,16.42) and here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=39.001539,-76.981962&spn=0.004694,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.001539,-76.981962&panoid=tMMNQDWH2kGyI7XHodWPIA&cbp=12,37.18,,0,3.7)).
I drive an automatic and have little desire to learn to drive stick. If the technology exists for the car to handle all of the details of gear selection, I'd prefer to let it do that and free up my brain to paying attention to things the car can't handle itself, like looking out for other cars and crap in the road and signs and such.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 16, 2013, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: corco on June 16, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
That's great with a granny gear- but yeah. When I lived in Seattle with a stick (streets as steep as San Francisco's, for those unfamiliar), I'd use the e-brake method- shift into first as normal while slowly disengaging the emergency brake instead of the clutch- that works with a hand brake; that would be really hard if you had a foot brake. Fortunately most modern vehicles with foot brakes and manual transmissions are trucks like yours that have a granny gear.
Never been in the state of Washington, but I have experienced the steep grades in San Francisco.
Where I normally drive, in and around D.C., there are a few places with pretty steep grades leading up to signalized intersections, such as Wisconsin Avenue, N.W. which runs from the Potomac River in Georgetown up a set of fairly steep hills (not as steep as San Francisco) to Massachusetts Avenue, where the National Cathedral is located.
Then there's 13th Street, N.W. northbound between Florida Avenue and Clifton Street, which is quite steep (and has a light at the top of the hill - GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=13th+street,+n.w.+and+euclid+street,+n.w.+washington,+d.c.&ll=38.920606,-77.029675&spn=0.002333,0.004823&hnear=13th+St+NW+%26+Euclid+St+NW,+Washington,+District+of+Columbia+20009&gl=us&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.920606,-77.029675&panoid=1ffv_quXcYs-15LaLTAEzw&cbp=12,351.84,,0,13.62)).
Md. 650 (New Hampshire Avenue) has an assortment of reasonably steep hills between the Maryland/D.C. border and I-495 with plenty of traffic signals mixed-in (GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=38.971897,-76.997788&spn=0.004663,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.971581,-76.998196&panoid=9tU3ziEngcFV5By1yaBgPQ&cbp=12,40.44,,0,22.42), here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=38.980354,-76.989623&spn=0.004696,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.980428,-76.989557&panoid=A0sXS7mh9FkTVM9u_NWhgg&cbp=12,25.71,,0,16.42) and here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Takoma+Park,+Md&hl=en&ll=39.001539,-76.981962&spn=0.004694,0.009645&sll=38.920606,-77.029675&sspn=0.00235,0.004823&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Takoma+Park,+Montgomery,+Maryland&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.001539,-76.981962&panoid=tMMNQDWH2kGyI7XHodWPIA&cbp=12,37.18,,0,3.7)).
My wife's mom hasn't driven a stick in years but she told us about taking her dads car and learning to drive stick on the streets of San Francisco... much different than here in Florida... I have driven stick for 10 of the past 20 years when I worked for a few weeks in Tallahassee last year I had trouble on the hills there, I can only imaging San Fran
Shortly after I got my driver's license, my brother tried to teach me how to drive a manual transmission - on his 1980 Chevy Monza. These lessons were prompted by the fact I had lost out on a summer job as a phone installer with New England Telephone (yes, during the good old Bell System days) because I couldn't drive a stick.
Hardly the best car for a newbie to learn on. For one thing, it had the world's deepest clutch (even my brother admitted to that), so it didn't go well. The lessons ended the day I accidentally pulled the shifter knob off trying to put the car into gear.
I probably remember enough from those lessons that I could move a manual transmission car in an emergency, but not much else.
Quote from: corco on June 16, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
That's great with a granny gear- but yeah. When I lived in Seattle with a stick (streets as steep as San Francisco's, for those unfamiliar), I'd use the e-brake method- shift into first as normal while slowly disengaging the emergency brake instead of the clutch- that works with a hand brake; that would be really hard if you had a foot brake. Fortunately most modern vehicles with foot brakes and manual transmissions are trucks like yours that have a granny gear.
I did that for the first few weeks of having an '89 Escort before my muscle memory got good enough that I was able to disengage the brake and engage clutch and gas quickly enough as to not roll back more than about 4 or 5 inches, even on a 15-16% hill. after that, I found it easier to concentrate on 3 things instead of 4.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2013, 04:42:40 AM
I drive an automatic and have little desire to learn to drive stick. If the technology exists for the car to handle all of the details of gear selection, I'd prefer to let it do that and free up my brain to paying attention to things the car can't handle itself, like looking out for other cars and crap in the road and signs and such.
Funny, as I probably mentioned before that's one reason why back when I was 16 I took the DMV road test using my mom's automatic-equipped Volvo, just to have one less thing to screw up. But since every car I've ever owned has been a manual I've found I seldom think at all about shifting. It's just second nature and something I do automatically. About the only time I think about it is when I switch cars. The shifter in my wife's RSX is considerably stiffer than in either of our other cars and it doesn't always go into third gear smoothly. Beyond that, I think more about it on the rare occasion when I have to drive an automatic, simply because I have to concentrate on stuff like not making the thing kick down except when I want it to do so.
Didn't have any trouble operating a right-hand drive five-speed manual in Scotland, either.
Quote from: roadman on June 18, 2013, 03:34:06 PMShortly after I got my driver's license, my brother tried to teach me how to drive a manual transmission - on his 1980 Chevy Monza.
Hardly the best car for a newbie to learn on. For one thing, it had the world's deepest clutch (even my brother admitted to that), so it didn't go well. The lessons ended the day I accidentally pulled the shifter knob off trying to put the car into gear.
I learned in 1983 in a 1971 Triumph Spitfire whose clutch hydraulic system was not long for this world. It's a long story.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 18, 2013, 04:14:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2013, 04:42:40 AM
I drive an automatic and have little desire to learn to drive stick. If the technology exists for the car to handle all of the details of gear selection, I'd prefer to let it do that and free up my brain to paying attention to things the car can't handle itself, like looking out for other cars and crap in the road and signs and such.
Funny, as I probably mentioned before that's one reason why back when I was 16 I took the DMV road test using my mom's automatic-equipped Volvo, just to have one less thing to screw up. But since every car I've ever owned has been a manual I've found I seldom think at all about shifting. It's just second nature and something I do automatically. About the only time I think about it is when I switch cars. The shifter in my wife's RSX is considerably stiffer than in either of our other cars and it doesn't always go into third gear smoothly. Beyond that, I think more about it on the rare occasion when I have to drive an automatic, simply because I have to concentrate on stuff like not making the thing kick down except when I want it to do so.
Didn't have any trouble operating a right-hand drive five-speed manual in Scotland, either.
It's not entirely "one less thing to screw up". While you do have to worry about the shifting, it's also less tempting to do a rolling stop (which is an automatic fail in NY), so there's a tradeoff.