One of the trickier aspects of driving, in my opinion, is our inability to specifically and concisely communicate our intentions or grievances to fellow motorists with anything more precise than a signal light, horn honk or hand gesture (rude or otherwise). In particular, I've noticed the the flickering of high beams seems to carry more intended meanings than other types of signal, so I'm curious to what people have used this technique to convey.
Post replies as the statement you'd try to communicate by flickering your high beams. For example, and to go ahead and get the obvious snark out of the way, "You just moved in front of me and I believe you to be a major jerk-off for having done so." (Of course, that's more often done by burning the high beams continuously into someone's mirror.) A more legitimate typical use is "I am allowing you to turn or proceed ahead of me." What else?
If a vehicle is coming the other way and the driver flashes the high-beams, I check to see if I forgot to dim mine. (When I first got my current Acura, sometimes jerks flashed their brights at me because they didn't like the HID headlights that come standard on the car. That hasn't happened in several years, so I guess people are accustomed to improved headlights.)
If it's daytime and I see a driver coming the other way flashing his high-beams, I interpret it as warning of a speedtrap. (Some people flash the low-beams on and off instead.)
I've heard some people say you should flash your high-beams to tell someone he forgot to turn on his headlights, but I've always understood that flashing your lights on and off is the correct way to send that message.
I do not understand the current fad of shining your high-beams at someone when you don't like his driving.
I've seen other drivers flash their high beams to inform drivers on the opposite side of the road that there is a police car logging speeds up ahead.
Quote from: Zeffy on June 11, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
I've seen other drivers flash their high beams to inform drivers on the opposite side of the road that there is a police car logging speeds up ahead.
I've done that, and am always on the lookout for that.
Other things I've used the high beams for:
1. To warn of animals like deer near the road.
2. Let truckers and vehicles with trailers know that they have enough room to move over in front of me.
3. Let slow vehicles in front of me know (in conjunction with the left turn signal) that they need to move to the right, out of the left lane.
4. Let others at a four-way stop sign know that I will remain stopped and let them go first.
5. A sense of irritation at you pulling in front of me and nearly causing an accident.
"oops, I thought that was the windshield washer fluid"
I flash three times if there's a deer, moose, other obstacle in the road that I just passed and opposing traffic might soon encounter. I have no idea if people catch the meaning, but hopefully it gives them enough pause to realize that something important may be happening.
"dude, get out of the left lane" would be very nice if that were universally understood, but it's nowhere near the case.
Quote from: NE2 on June 11, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
"oops, I thought that was the windshield washer fluid"
Actually, that's fun to do to someone tailgating you. Send the washer fluid up and over the car at 70 mph and onto their windshield. The tailgater usually takes the hint.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 11, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
"oops, I thought that was the windshield washer fluid"
Actually, that's fun to do to someone tailgating you. Send the washer fluid up and over the car at 70 mph and onto their windshield. The tailgater usually takes the hint.
Wish I could do that when it's pouring rain when they tailgate me while driving 10 above the (hilariously low) speed limit.
If I see lights flashed at me from oncoming traffic, my instinctive thought is that their is either a speed trap or hazard (animal ect.) ahead and I should slow down. These are the situations I would flash my high beams at oncoming traffic.
At night, I might flash my headlights approaching an intersection if I see a vehicle approaching at a right angle where I think there could be a conflict if they don't stop. Of course, this behaviour doesn't guarantee that a driver will stop, but it does make my approach far more obvious.
I have never been a fan of vehicles flashing their highbeams while approaching from behind on an expressway. Though, I am usually pretty aware of my surroundings on the highway, and always move over when a faster vehicle approaches. Sometimes, if an impatient driver flashing their headlights approaches from behind quickly and I am passing a long line of vehicles or a large vehicle, I will deliberately drive beside a vehicle to prohibit them from passing. Immature yes, but if I am in the left lane completing my pass, even at a lesser speed than the approaching vehicle, I am still entitled to be in the left lane and don't need to be subjected to overtly aggressive behaviour from the driver behind. If they had just waited, I would have moved over as soon as I could have anyways.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on June 11, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
I have never been a fan of vehicles flashing their highbeams while approaching from behind on an expressway. Though, I am usually pretty aware of my surroundings on the highway, and always move over when a faster vehicle approaches. Sometimes, if an impatient driver flashing their headlights approaches from behind quickly and I am passing a long line of vehicles or a large vehicle, I will deliberately drive beside a vehicle to prohibit them from passing. Immature yes, but if I am in the left lane completing my pass, even at a lesser speed than the approaching vehicle, I am still entitled to be in the left lane and don't need to be subjected to overtly aggressive behaviour from the driver behind. If they had just waited, I would have moved over as soon as I could have anyways.
that is indeed pretty immature.
I usually am driving as fast as I think is not going to attract police attention (just under 80mph here in California seems to be a universal), but I'll speed up to about 85-87 if someone is coming up fast behind me and I'm blocking the left lane. then I'll get the Hell out of the way and let them get a ticket.
good for you. If I am doing 120 (km/h) in the left lane, the guy behind me can wait until I complete my pass.
Getting passed on the highway (most often by an 18 wheeler): Get over, you're clear.
Stopped on the road with someone waiting to turn: Go on, turn.
At night, while in motion: Turn your damn high beams off!
Day, while in motion, traffic oncoming: If you keep going, there's something bad that way.
in Mexico, turning on one's left turn signal indicates an intention to pass. it's viewed as perfectly normal.
has not caught on at all in the US. I've had precisely one person with US plates do that to me; I moved halfway onto the shoulder and he passed me down the middle. had there been oncoming traffic, they would have freaked out for sure.
I flashed by lights yesterday at a dumbass who was passing a long line of cars all at once headed toward me. It was a "hey dumbass get back onto your side of the road" flash.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2013, 12:01:25 PM
Other things I've used the high beams for:
1. To warn of animals like deer near the road.
2. Let truckers and vehicles with trailers know that they have enough room to move over in front of me.
3. Let slow vehicles in front of me know (in conjunction with the left turn signal) that they need to move to the right, out of the left lane.
4. Let others at a four-way stop sign know that I will remain stopped and let them go first.
5. A sense of irritation at you pulling in front of me and nearly causing an accident.
The last is interesting to me, because whereas your first four are permissive messages (or at least helpful), the last connotes a prohibitive or negative sense that is usually reserved for the horn. I recently had a livery driver whip around my right side while I was in the left lane passing another vehicle (who abruptly sped up, eliminating my need to pass while allowing the opening for the livery guy). Since I no longer needed to pass, I put on my right signal to show I was coming back over to the right, but the livery guy flashed his lights at me. Normally this would mean "I see you coming over; go ahead and do so because you're clear", but he was accelerating fast into the space so I obviously wasn't clear. Of course it ended up costing him much more time, because since I could no longer move back to the right, yet there wasn't a safe amount of space for the livery driver to get in front of me, I had to speed up myself to complete my original passing maneuver and get the left lane cleared for the impatient guy...
Point being, he used his lights in a prohibitive way, in a situation where they'd normally be used permissively, and it got me thinking about the topic overall.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 11, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
"oops, I thought that was the windshield washer fluid"
Actually, that's fun to do to someone tailgating you. Send the washer fluid up and over the car at 70 mph and onto their windshield. The tailgater usually takes the hint.
I usually throw on the hazards when there's a tailgater (to inform him that there's something hazardously close in front of him: me). Safer than brake-checking, and more obvious then a turn signal. If that doesn't work, gradually slowing to the point where a) people who need to pass can do so, or b) our speeds are low enough that his distance behind me is no longer dangerous–though tailgaters rarely wait around for that point to be reached–usually works out.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on June 11, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
At night, I might flash my headlights approaching an intersection if I see a vehicle approaching at a right angle where I think there could be a conflict if they don't stop. Of course, this behaviour doesn't guarantee that a driver will stop, but it does make my approach far more obvious.
That's another case where the permissive/prohibitive conflict would come in: I would interpret your flashing to mean I was clear to come in front of you (although I'd decline to do so if I didn't agree). I would tend to expect the horn to be used instead as a warning, but of course the horn isn't necessarily any more specific in meaning than the high-beams.
Quote from: Darkchylde on June 11, 2013, 01:42:05 PM
At night, while in motion: Turn your damn high beams off!
I learned this one a little differently: burn your high-beams
continuously until the oncoming driver either turns his off, or turns them
on to show that they weren't already on and that he just has deceivingly bright low-beams.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 01:45:53 PM
in Mexico, turning on one's left turn signal indicates an intention to pass. it's viewed as perfectly normal.
has not caught on at all in the US. I've had precisely one person with US plates do that to me; I moved halfway onto the shoulder and he passed me down the middle. had there been oncoming traffic, they would have freaked out for sure.
Agreed; I've tried it, and it worked maybe once, if that wasn't just a coincidence. Usually the best way to get LLB's out of your way is to approach the exit they were planning to take anyway.
Quote from: empirestate on June 11, 2013, 02:11:15 PM
Usually the best way to get LLB's out of your way is to approach the exit they were planning to take anyway.
I could not parse this. do you mean "pass them on the right"?
A few years ago I was coming around a blind corner on U.S. 30 between Rainier and Astoria, OR only to slam on my brakes as a truck and camping trailer had overturned blocking much of the road. There were already various witnesses calling the authorities so as I was able to get through on the shoulder I slowly proceeded.
Just past the scene cars were approaching the wreck at a high rate of speed (rural area, 55 MPH speed zone) so I was flashing my lights at everyone, until I saw the first fire truck.
Years ago some gang bangers thought to play a game by driving around town with their headlights turned off. If someone flashed them, they'd shoot (yes, guns). So a lot of people I know, myself included, won't flash the headlights to indicate their lights may be off. I've not heard of such an incident occurring lately, but I still don't do it.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on June 11, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
....
I have never been a fan of vehicles flashing their highbeams while approaching from behind on an expressway. ....
I vastly prefer the idea of flashing your brights two or three times to say "please move over" rather than the current trend of tailgating the person you want to move.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
I vastly prefer the idea of flashing your brights two or three times to say "please move over" rather than the current trend of tailgating the person you want to move.
I just do not understand the mentality of people who will not move over just by instinct when someone is coming up behind at a higher rate of speed.
Quote from: sp_redelectric on June 11, 2013, 03:55:27 PM
Years ago some gang bangers thought to play a game by driving around town with their headlights turned off. If someone flashed them, they'd shoot (yes, guns). So a lot of people I know, myself included, won't flash the headlights to indicate their lights may be off. I've not heard of such an incident occurring lately, but I still don't do it.
It's an urban legend (http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/lightsout.asp).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
I vastly prefer the idea of flashing your brights two or three times to say "please move over" rather than the current trend of tailgating the person you want to move.
I just do not understand the mentality of people who will not move over just by instinct when someone is coming up behind at a higher rate of speed.
I agree with that too. I'm religious about staying out of the left lane except to pass, to move over for a stopped emergency vehicle, or to use a left-side exit. I sometimes also use the left lane if the right lane is in crappy condition. (Reverse all that when I'm driving in the UK, of course.)
But some people will tailgate you or flash the lights even when there's a left-side exit in under a mile, or when you're passing a line of slow-moving trucks and the guy just wants to pass faster. That sort of thing is just stupid. My observation is at many tailgaters don't care that you can't go faster due to someone else in front of you, either. They'll tailgate you to try to get you to move, then they'll do it again to the next guy. I-81 in Virginia is a classic example of this sort of thing because the very high volumes of truck traffic combined with rolling terrain mean you're in the left lane a lot to pass the trucks.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:40:38 PM
But some people will tailgate you or flash the lights even when there's a left-side exit in under a mile, or when you're passing a line of slow-moving trucks and the guy just wants to pass faster. That sort of thing is just stupid. My observation is at many tailgaters don't care that you can't go faster due to someone else in front of you, either. They'll tailgate you to try to get you to move, then they'll do it again to the next guy. I-81 in Virginia is a classic example of this sort of thing because the very high volumes of truck traffic combined with rolling terrain mean you're in the left lane a lot to pass the trucks.
Agreed, this type of aggressive driving behaviour has no business on our roads.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:40:38 PMyou're passing a line of slow-moving trucks and the guy just wants to pass faster.
this I disagree with. I think it is more courteous to pass one vehicle at a time, allowing faster traffic behind you to go before you pass the next one.
^ Maybe. It depends on the situation. Sometimes you could be passing a long line of vehicles that are tightly spaced and cannot be easily squeezed between. Or you could be traveling at a rate of speed considerably higher than the rate of speed of the line of vehicles beside you warranting you to slow down considerably to squeeze in. I wouldn't move over in either of those conditions until there was an appropriate gap.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:40:38 PMyou're passing a line of slow-moving trucks and the guy just wants to pass faster.
this I disagree with. I think it is more courteous to pass one vehicle at a time, allowing faster traffic behind you to go before you pass the next one.
It's often impossible to do so when passing a group of vehicles spaced closely, and it's not practical to suggest drivers wait until it's obvious that there's room to pull back in one car ahead in case a faster driver should happen to come up on the left.
Oncoming traffic:
~ Several fast flickers on and off: danger ahead, slow down now and be alert (could be accident, animal in road, rockslide, bridge out, flooding...)
~ One or two moderately fast flickers: speed trap ahead
~ One long flash: you left your high beams on, or your headlights are off (or maybe one is out)
~ Turn on and stay on: all of the "one long flash" meanings, or you are drifting over the line (or cutting a pass too close)
Behind you/same direction:
~ Several fast flickers on and off: I am an asshole who wants to tailgate you. You should slow down to 1/8 mph faster than the car to your right to annoy this type of person to the fullest extent possible.
~ One or two moderately fast flickers: You just cut me off and are going slower than me. Speed up and get back over, or just get back over, and look next time.
~ One long flash: I've been watching you drive erratically for some time now, and now I'm fairly close behind you. Sober up and let me get away from you.
~ Turn on and stay on: You're using up the passing lane and not passing anyone.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 11, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
"oops, I thought that was the windshield washer fluid"
Actually, that's fun to do to someone tailgating you. Send the washer fluid up and over the car at 70 mph and onto their windshield. The tailgater usually takes the hint.
I always appreciate the free windshield wash, myself.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 11, 2013, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 04:40:38 PMyou're passing a line of slow-moving trucks and the guy just wants to pass faster.
this I disagree with. I think it is more courteous to pass one vehicle at a time, allowing faster traffic behind you to go before you pass the next one.
It's often impossible to do so when passing a group of vehicles spaced closely, and it's not practical to suggest drivers wait until it's obvious that there's room to pull back in one car ahead in case a faster driver should happen to come up on the left.
Not to mention that if you cram yourself back into a line of trucks, it can sometimes get downright difficult to pull back out to pass the rest of them if the traffic is heavy. Another consideration is terrain. I WILL NOT, under any circumstances, pull in front of a truck on a downhill grade that's anything more than a minor downhill. I cited I-81 in Virginia earlier and it's a prime example of a road where some of the slopes are bad places to be in front of a truck. Anyone who's driven in the mountains knows what I mean. I don't care if it means another driver behind me gets inconvenienced–I just don't consider it safe to pull in front of a truck going down a hill.
Anyway, the examples people have cited are all reasons why I don't like to state absolute rules most of the time (the foregoing paragraph being a notable exception). I won't say "I'll never pull into a line of trucks just because someone going faster wants to pass." Sometimes it can be fine to do so. But I won't say "I'll always let the faster person by," either. There are just too many variables.
In regard to agentsteel53's comment about passing one vehicle at a time, that's a situation that depends heavily on the traffic. Say you get stuck in the "Grandpa cruise control pass" situation where the trucks are in the right lane going about 65, the speed limit is 70, and you join a line of cars in the left lane all going about 68 because Grandpa up at the front of the line had his cruise control set at that speed and pulled out to pass the line of trucks and now everyone's stuck. Why the heck should I pull back over between the trucks just because some guy behind me wants to go 75? Where's he going to go if I move for him? Nowhere.
I think we both know that you specifically contrived an example out of a situation in which it's clear that grandpa needs to speed up, finish passing, and get over.
I would make that kind of obstruction illegal. I believe it is the case in Germany.
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2013, 05:54:32 PM
Oncoming traffic:
~ Several fast flickers on and off: danger ahead, slow down now and be alert (could be accident, animal in road, rockslide, bridge out, flooding...)
~ One or two moderately fast flickers: speed trap ahead
~ One long flash: you left your high beams on, or your headlights are off (or maybe one is out)
~ Turn on and stay on: all of the "one long flash" meanings, or you are drifting over the line (or cutting a pass too close)
Behind you/same direction:
~ Several fast flickers on and off: I am an asshole who wants to tailgate you. You should slow down to 1/8 mph faster than the car to your right to annoy this type of person to the fullest extent possible.
~ One or two moderately fast flickers: You just cut me off and are going slower than me. Speed up and get back over, or just get back over, and look next time.
~ One long flash: I've been watching you drive erratically for some time now, and now I'm fairly close behind you. Sober up and let me get away from you.
~ Turn on and stay on: You're using up the passing lane and not passing anyone.
~ anything in Morse code: I expect you to know Morse code.
I can't really think of anything new to add to this thread (besides taking it off topic).
Oncoming... I use the same random/"good feeling" amount of flashes regardless of what I mean by it, but when I do it can mean:
* Cop ahead, slow your shit down
* Stopped vehicle in a lane, consider a way to pass a jam (good for roads with intersections and someone breaks down and there's a huge line of cars blocked up and confused why they're not moving)
* It's night out and your brights are on. Turn them off until I pass.
Same direction:
* You pulled a cock move. Horn works better most of the time, but some opportunities only need a more passive warning.
I also flash my hazards for a number of things:
1) I know truckers will flash them as a "thank you" for letting them merge into your lane
2) Someone who's had their turn signal on for no reason.... pull up in front of them and flash your hazards until you think they've gone "huh? wha? *looks at own turn signal* oh." ...it's worked
3) Same as above but if they're tailgaiting you and/or have their brights on. Some get the hint, some are dicks/clueless.
4) I've used it as a "thanks" and "I don't know where the hell I'm going so I might drive slower"
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 06:01:23 PM
I think we both know that you specifically contrived an example out of a situation in which it's clear that grandpa needs to speed up, finish passing, and get over.
I would make that kind of obstruction illegal. I believe it is the case in Germany.
I didn't contrive anything. It happens all the time on I-81. I-95 through the Carolinas, too (but that road is a lot flatter, at least).
Quote from: colinstu on June 11, 2013, 07:22:12 PM
....
I also flash my hazards for a number of things:
1) I know truckers will flash them as a "thank you" for letting them merge into your lane
....
I've also observed that truck drivers will flash their headlights on and off to say it's clear to move back over. I've adopted that habit as well. Most people seem to understand it, although in the DC area I think sometimes people are taken aback when you do something nice!
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 06:01:23 PM
I think we both know that you specifically contrived an example out of a situation in which it's clear that grandpa needs to speed up, finish passing, and get over.
I would make that kind of obstruction illegal. I believe it is the case in Germany.
I didn't contrive anything. It happens all the time on I-81. I-95 through the Carolinas, too (but that road is a lot flatter, at least).
it happens everywhere. what I meant is, you described in great detail your situation and how you expect drivers to react to you, and completely ignored the fact that grandpa is 100% at fault for causing congestion.
it's a deck-chairs-on-Titanic situation.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 11, 2013, 02:11:15 PM
Usually the best way to get LLB's out of your way is to approach the exit they were planning to take anyway.
I could not parse this. do you mean "pass them on the right"?
No; meaning that some people will just get in the left lane for the duration of their travel on the freeway, and often when one of those people does appear to finally get the hint and move to the right, it turns out that they only did so because their exit is coming up and they needed to move over to take a right-hand ramp.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 09:25:53 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 06:01:23 PM
I think we both know that you specifically contrived an example out of a situation in which it's clear that grandpa needs to speed up, finish passing, and get over.
I would make that kind of obstruction illegal. I believe it is the case in Germany.
I didn't contrive anything. It happens all the time on I-81. I-95 through the Carolinas, too (but that road is a lot flatter, at least).
it happens everywhere. what I meant is, you described in great detail your situation and how you expect drivers to react to you, and completely ignored the fact that grandpa is 100% at fault for causing congestion.
it's a deck-chairs-on-Titanic situation.
Of course he's at fault. But why does that mean I should slow down and move right into a line of trucks just so a prick who's tailgating me can move past and tailgate the guy in front of me? That's what I interpret you to be saying I should do in that scenario.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 09:25:53 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 06:01:23 PM
I think we both know that you specifically contrived an example out of a situation in which it's clear that grandpa needs to speed up, finish passing, and get over.
I would make that kind of obstruction illegal. I believe it is the case in Germany.
I didn't contrive anything. It happens all the time on I-81. I-95 through the Carolinas, too (but that road is a lot flatter, at least).
it happens everywhere. what I meant is, you described in great detail your situation and how you expect drivers to react to you, and completely ignored the fact that grandpa is 100% at fault for causing congestion.
it's a deck-chairs-on-Titanic situation.
Of course he's at fault. But why does that mean I should slow down and move right into a line of trucks just so a prick who's tailgating me can move past and tailgate the guy in front of me? That's what I interpret you to be saying I should do in that scenario.
No, he's saying that if you're in that scenario, the flashing is really directed toward the front of the line, not you, and you damn well know it has nothing to do with you because you're one in a line.
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2013, 10:19:02 PM
No, he's saying that if you're in that scenario, the flashing is really directed toward the front of the line, not you, and you damn well know it has nothing to do with you because you're one in a line.
if someone behind me flashes and I can't do anything because I am obstructed by someone in front, I "pay forward" the flash.
If I am letting someone turn in front of me I will physically wave them on with my hand/arm to convey that message (this being what I was taught to do in driver's ed).
I... don't remember the last time I flashed my headlights at someone. It isn't something I typically do, for any reason. Headlights from oncoming traffic on a dark road at night are all blindingly bright to me so I really can't tell whether someone has their highbeams on unless I see them dim them. I don't flash to warn of cops because I am not comfortable with the idea of assisting people in evading the police (paranoid fear: I'm going to get pulled over for warning people that there's a cop). And if I am dissatisfied with someone's speed in the left lane I just pass them on the right - it solves my problem faster and is less confrontational.
I typically flash hazards for wildlife/appliances/things like that in the road- that way people behind me can see it too.
I'll throw my left blinker on to tell somebody to either expedite their pass of me or get over so I can pass them.
I only flash for three reasons:
1) Oncoming driver left his brights on
2) I just passed a cop
3) Somebody cuts me off in a dangerous way or passes me and slows down on a wide open road.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2013, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2013, 10:19:02 PM
No, he's saying that if you're in that scenario, the flashing is really directed toward the front of the line, not you, and you damn well know it has nothing to do with you because you're one in a line.
if someone behind me flashes and I can't do anything because I am obstructed by someone in front, I "pay forward" the flash.
I think what we might be disagreeing about is simply our view of whether that's practical. If I'm immediately behind the guy who's obstructing the traffic, then yeah, absolutely I'd flash my lights at him. If it went on for an extended period I might blow the horn as well. But if I'm fourth or fifth in a line of traffic stuck behind a slowpoke, I'm unlikely to bother flashing my lights regardless of what the guy behind me does, simply because I see little point in it. The odds are slim to none that the guy in front of me will interpret it as directed at the lead driver.
But if the guy behind me comes up and tailgates me as a way of telling me he wants to go faster, he can go fuck himself.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 12, 2013, 09:37:25 AM
I think what we might be disagreeing about is simply our view of whether that's practical. If I'm immediately behind the guy who's obstructing the traffic, then yeah, absolutely I'd flash my lights at him. If it went on for an extended period I might blow the horn as well. But if I'm fourth or fifth in a line of traffic stuck behind a slowpoke, I'm unlikely to bother flashing my lights regardless of what the guy behind me does, simply because I see little point in it. The odds are slim to none that the guy in front of me will interpret it as directed at the lead driver.
But if the guy behind me comes up and tailgates me as a way of telling me he wants to go faster, he can go fuck himself.
you're contradicting yourself.
"if someone is in front of me, he is obstructing traffic"
"if someone is behind me, I am not obstructing traffic"
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 12, 2013, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 12, 2013, 09:37:25 AM
I think what we might be disagreeing about is simply our view of whether that's practical. If I'm immediately behind the guy who's obstructing the traffic, then yeah, absolutely I'd flash my lights at him. If it went on for an extended period I might blow the horn as well. But if I'm fourth or fifth in a line of traffic stuck behind a slowpoke, I'm unlikely to bother flashing my lights regardless of what the guy behind me does, simply because I see little point in it. The odds are slim to none that the guy in front of me will interpret it as directed at the lead driver.
But if the guy behind me comes up and tailgates me as a way of telling me he wants to go faster, he can go fuck himself.
you're contradicting yourself.
"if someone is in front of me, he is obstructing traffic"
"if someone is behind me, I am not obstructing traffic"
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that a line of four or five cars might not be viewed by certain people as an "obstruction."
My point is simply that, as with so many other things in life, it's a case of what is REASONABLE. (Reasonableness is a significant guideline in many areas of law, especially tort law.) I consider your position here to be unreasonable, especially if you are suggesting that it is either permissible or acceptable for you to tailgate someone who's stuck in a line of traffic because of a slowpoke at the front. Under no circumstances is tailgating acceptable.
Flashing your lights, whatever. Go ahead and do it if it makes you happy, but my point is simply that if you're trying to get every driver in a line of cars to move out of your way when they're all trying to get around a chain of slow-moving trucks or whatever, then you're wasting your time. If you flash your lights in that situation and the people in front of you don't move over, then you have to live with it. Is it annoying? Of course it is. But it's life. We've all encountered the situation where you have to work your way around someone.
This brings me back around to another issue on flashing your lights to say "let me past." I have no problem with that signal as a general matter. However, regardless of whether I'm the flasher or the flashee (is that even a word?), I construe it as meaning the person in front should move over when it is safe and reasonable to do so, not "you're in my way and you need to move RIGHT NOW." I previously mentioned the example of a truck going down a mountain. I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to move over to the right in front of a truck in that circumstance. Similarly, if there's an on-ramp on the right and someone's trying to enter the highway, I'd say you don't move right until you're past the acceleration lane (unless he's so far back on the ramp you can't come into conflict). I suppose you could say "that means the person in front being flashed should speed up." Yes and no. We've all seen the hyper-aggressive drivers who want to do 90 to 100 mph regardless of the traffic and who'll weave in and out and tailgate everyone. I don't think it's reasonable to demand that someone else speed up to 100 mph, especially if you're in a state like North Carolina or Virginia that has a statute defining reckless driving in terms of speed. That sort of thing is also why in my view the person flashing his lights to ask ("ask," BTW, not "order") a person to move should consider whether it's useful or appropriate under the circumstances. I don't believe that the mere fact that someone in front of you may be "obstructing" you from going faster than you want is necessarily sufficient reason to justify flicking the high-beams. On the other hand, going back to the "Grandpa cruise control" example, if Grandpa could solve the problem by speeding up 5 mph, getting over to the right, and then resuming his preferred speed, then that's absolutely what he should do.
I guess what I'm saying is this: I think in practical terms we probably agree for the most part that the left lane is for passing and people should, when possible, avoid cruising in the left lane and should normally try to complete pass in a timely fashion and move back to the right. I think we also agree that flashing the high beams to say "please move over" CAN be appropriate. It's the part beyond "can" where we seem to disagree. Your comments come across to me as an attempt to prescribe an absolute set of rules, i.e., "You should always ____." I shouldn't be surprised to find that sort of attitude on a road-related site where some people advocate slavish adherence to the MUTCD even if it's impractical or if the MUTCD is wrong. But I've simply found in years of driving that it's not realistic to view the roads in that way. We all know that it doesn't matter what the law might say or how the driver's manual says you "should" do something or how the MUTCD drafters think people "should" interpret a sign–in the real world, conditions are usually far from ideal.
My rule of thumb is that if I find that I'm constantly having to flash my lights at other drivers to demand they move over, and if the majority of the other drivers would have to slow down in order to move over to let me past, it's a sign that I'm probably going unreasonably fast for conditions (because "conditions" includes other traffic). I don't encounter that situation much anymore. When I was in my 20s I tended to drive at very high speeds and to get annoyed at people I considered "slowpokes." I generally don't bother anymore, mainly because my insurance rates are pretty low and I'd like to keep them there! (I've never been in a situation where I'm the one at whom a lot of drivers are flashing their lights!)
One final thought: All my comments above apply to situations where there are two lanes in one direction. I do not believe it's EVER appropriate to demand that someone in any lane other than the left lane (or the right lane in a right-hand drive country, of course) should speed up or move over for you. Pass on the left when you can.
Over here flashing your lights can have opposite meanings to elsewhere. Instead of letting other traffic know you're coming through it's often used to let vehicles out of side roads or to let oncoming vehicles proceed if there's an obstruction in the road narrowing it down to a single lane.
On freeways truckers will flash their lights to let a truck passing them know it's safe to pull back in.
Of course, flashing lights (usually several times in quick succession) is used to inform oncoming traffic of a speedtrap or if animals are in the road.
while 100mph and weaving is certainly reckless, I do believe it is reasonable that drivers, when getting into the left lane to pass, proceed at speeds closely approaching the threshold below which they will be safe from police interference. in California, this is widely recognized as "80mph on the freeway"*. 95% of drivers will either constantly go at this speed, or speed up as necessary when getting into the left lane to pass.
* gee, this well-known numerical limit on driving speed, beyond which one can reasonably expect a citation, and below which one can reasonably proceed without such expectation...
wouldn't it be nice if this information - those two words, and the number - were somehow combined on a single highway sign, posted at regular intervals?
nah, I must be dreaming.
Flashing your brights at me, I will translate as the following:
(1) It's dark and I don't have my lights on.
(2) I left my brights on, and they're blinding you.
(3) There's an obstacle ahead.
(4) There's a cop ahead.
(5) You're letting me go first at an intersection or one-lane pass (USA only).
(6) You're going to go first (and I should wait) at a one-lane pass (México only).
The message I most commonly want to communicate but cannot: You left your signal on. Alternating between brake lights and turn signals cues some drivers to it, but only a few.
here's one that is tough to communicate. "we've established that a resident of the left lane is driving erratically and needs to be passed. you have started to pass him on the right. good idea. however, you are slowing down. I as well would like to pass him on the right; please continue going at an advanced rate of speed."
Quote from: empirestate on June 11, 2013, 10:56:10 AMOne of the trickier aspects of driving, in my opinion, is our inability to specifically and concisely communicate our intentions or grievances to fellow motorists with anything more precise than a signal light, horn honk or hand gesture (rude or otherwise). In particular, I've noticed the the flickering of high beams seems to carry more intended meanings than other types of signal, so I'm curious to what people have used this technique to convey.
My personal philosophy is that the highway isn't the place to use automotive appliances such as the horn or high beams to communicate grievances; I do that from time to time, but I never fool myself that I have been anything but childish in doing so.
In the US I hardly ever flash my high beams because I believe it is nearly impossible for that to be seen uniformly as a facultative gesture. Warning of enforcement action downstream, wild animals in the road, etc. are all examples of facultative use, but the problem is that a flash is visible to everyone on the road (not just the intended recipient) and can be misinterpreted by someone for whom it is not intended. Drivers likely to be confused by a flash are not necessarily visible to the driver doing the flashing.
In the UK I have occasionally flashed my high beams in the contexts Truvelo describes (letting the other driver know you will keep open a gap in traffic for them, etc.), but even there I have reservations because it is still the other driver's responsibility to check that his way is clear, and I don't want inadvertently to encourage him to maneuver into an obstacle I cannot see but which should be visible to him.
also bear in mind that flashing headlights might mean something as simple as "vehicle has hit a bump in the road".
Quote from: Truvelo on June 12, 2013, 01:54:34 PM
Over here flashing your lights can have opposite meanings to elsewhere. Instead of letting other traffic know you're coming through it's often used to let vehicles out of side roads or to let oncoming vehicles proceed if there's an obstruction in the road narrowing it down to a single lane.
On freeways truckers will flash their lights to let a truck passing them know it's safe to pull back in.
Of course, flashing lights (usually several times in quick succession) is used to inform oncoming traffic of a speedtrap or if animals are in the road.
If by "over here" you mean the U.K., it's certainly not opposite from U.S. usage, at least in my experience. But more broadly, that's an important point; evidently in my example I ran across a driver who comes from a place where flashing lights is used prohibitively rather than permissively, and it's that unspecificity of meaning in this kind of signal that got me interested in the question. It's increasingly my belief that perceived poor driving habits in NYC and other major cities is mostly due to a high percentage of motorists who learned to drive in countries where the rules are different, are less emphasized by society, or simply don't exist. (That's not to excuse them, just to distinguish them from people who are just terrible at driving overall. Many of the "terrible drivers" in American cities would become highly skilled motorists if suddenly transported to their native areas, just as I can speak well when I'm in an English-speaking country, but I speak extremely poorly in, say, Uzbekistan.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 11:26:07 AM
If a vehicle is coming the other way and the driver flashes the high-beams, I check to see if I forgot to dim mine. (When I first got my current Acura, sometimes jerks flashed their brights at me because they didn't like the HID headlights that come standard on the car. That hasn't happened in several years, so I guess people are accustomed to improved headlights.)
If it's daytime and I see a driver coming the other way flashing his high-beams, I interpret it as warning of a speedtrap. (Some people flash the low-beams on and off instead.)
I've heard some people say you should flash your high-beams to tell someone he forgot to turn on his headlights, but I've always understood that flashing your lights on and off is the correct way to send that message.
I do not understand the current fad of shining your high-beams at someone when you don't like his driving.
But it's OK to blind other motorists with your Acura.
Quote from: bugo on June 13, 2013, 03:06:59 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 11, 2013, 11:26:07 AM
If a vehicle is coming the other way and the driver flashes the high-beams, I check to see if I forgot to dim mine. (When I first got my current Acura, sometimes jerks flashed their brights at me because they didn't like the HID headlights that come standard on the car. That hasn't happened in several years, so I guess people are accustomed to improved headlights.)
If it's daytime and I see a driver coming the other way flashing his high-beams, I interpret it as warning of a speedtrap. (Some people flash the low-beams on and off instead.)
I've heard some people say you should flash your high-beams to tell someone he forgot to turn on his headlights, but I've always understood that flashing your lights on and off is the correct way to send that message.
I do not understand the current fad of shining your high-beams at someone when you don't like his driving.
But it's OK to blind other motorists with your Acura.
Nobody's "blinding" anybody. HIDs are standard equipment on many cars. People who don't like them need to get over it. I believe most have. I'm sure there were people who complained when the halogen lights started replacing the horrid old sealed-beam lamps too. Why should we all drive around with obsolete crappy old headlights just because some people don't like modern lighting?
No. Those hideous blue headlights hurt my eyes and cause more damage than an incandescent bulb on bright. Not to mention, the jacked up pickup truck or SUV with the headlights mounted 2-4 feet above where they are supposed to be causing light pollution and blinding oncoming drivers. It could be a single screw that needs to be adjusted that would fix the problem. The bottom line is that new car does not always equal car with correctly aimed or designed headlights, and many old cars, especially cars that have been in accidents need to have their headlights aimed. One person with a bright light shouldn't be able to use it if it is blinding drivers.
Well, put it this way: If someone high-beams me because he doesn't like my low-beams, I'll high-beam him right back and show him what REAL high-beams look like.
Sort of reminiscent of Crocodile Dundee. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLS3RGesIFQ)
Haven't had that happen in several years, though. I think most people are used to HID headlights, especially people living in major metropolitan areas (simply because there are so many more cars than there are in rural areas).
I have found HIDs objectionable in the past and suspect the main reason they don't bother me much anymore is that I now rarely drive at night. I have wondered, however, if Euro-style full-cutoff beam patterns and automatic headlamp levelling mechanisms are becoming more prevalent, since HIDs seem less annoying on newer models.
I am personally not inclined to see any change in headlamp light source necessarily as a technical improvement, because headlight design is actually a complex optimization problem that has to take account of multiple factors:
* Enough light to see pavement markings for tracking purposes
* Not so much light that sign messages "burn out" against bright high-performance sheeting backgrounds
* Light hued away from most drivers' chromatic ranges of higher sensitivity (this is the reason the French for many years required headlamps tinted "automotive yellow," though I believe EU directives now make this unenforceable; HIDs move in the opposite direction since they output blue-tinted light and in some models actually make it impossible to see white retroreflective sheeting as a true white)
* Not so much light that it compromises the night-time accommodation of other drivers, thus increasing the chances that they will make tracking errors that result in a crash (in which you personally might be involved)
In the last 110 years or so, we have seen headlamp designs progress from acetylene to ordinary incandescent to sealed-beam incandescent to sealed-beam halogen to semi-sealed-beam halogen to HID. It may be stretching it to say that acetylene with optimized beam pattern is equal to or better than HID with bad beam pattern, but for any electrically operated light source I believe it is true to say that beam pattern is far more important for usable nighttime illumination than the type of source used.
Quote from: bugo on June 13, 2013, 10:48:34 PM
the jacked up pickup truck or SUV with the headlights mounted 2-4 feet above where they are supposed to be causing light pollution and blinding oncoming drivers.
I'm astonished that this is legal.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 13, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Nobody's "blinding" anybody. HIDs are standard equipment on many cars. People who don't like them need to get over it. I believe most have. I'm sure there were people who complained when the halogen lights started replacing the horrid old sealed-beam lamps too. Why should we all drive around with obsolete crappy old headlights just because some people don't like modern lighting?
I get blinded EVERY SINGLE TIME a vehicle with HIDs is behind me or passing on the freeway. It doesn't help that since I drive a smaller car rather than an SUV or truck that the headlights shine directly into my mirrors.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 14, 2013, 09:05:24 AM
Well, put it this way: If someone high-beams me because he doesn't like my low-beams, I'll high-beam him right back and show him what REAL high-beams look like.
Sort of reminiscent of Crocodile Dundee. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLS3RGesIFQ)
Haven't had that happen in several years, though. I think most people are used to HID headlights, especially people living in major metropolitan areas (simply because there are so many more cars than there are in rural areas).
Respectively: I've been in the situation (when HIDs were new) of drivers turning on and leaving them on for several seconds just in the way you describe - "I'll show you what high beams really are" - which left me so blinded I had to stop in the lane of traffic and wait to regain enough vision to be able to drive again. Terrifying.
The difference between rural and urban drivers probably has much more to do with dark adaptation than the idea that urban dwellers are more modern and up-to-date. It's not so much that I'm "used to it" but that I'm prepared for it now; we other drivers have had to develop coping behaviors to prevent being incapacitated by the oncoming fireball.
Maybe that's why I have problems with them. Almost all of my night driving is rural, and driving at night for me usually only happens when coming home from a roadmeet or trips to visit family.
Quote from: US81 on June 15, 2013, 09:04:38 AM
Respectively: I've been in the situation (when HIDs were new) of drivers turning on and leaving them on for several seconds just in the way you describe - "I'll show you what high beams really are" - which left me so blinded I had to stop in the lane of traffic and wait to regain enough vision to be able to drive again. Terrifying.
....
I don't mean this to sound nasty and I apologize if it does. But frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who flashes his high-beams because he doesn't like HIDs and then finds himself "blinded" when the HID user turns on his own high-beams. I feel that he brought it on himself. (With that said, I don't believe in the "turn them on and keep them on" thing, either; a quick flash back is plenty.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 15, 2013, 04:47:14 PM
Quote from: US81 on June 15, 2013, 09:04:38 AM
Respectively: I've been in the situation (when HIDs were new) of drivers turning on and leaving them on for several seconds just in the way you describe - "I'll show you what high beams really are" - which left me so blinded I had to stop in the lane of traffic and wait to regain enough vision to be able to drive again. Terrifying.
....
I don't mean this to sound nasty and I apologize if it does. But frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who flashes his high-beams because he doesn't like HIDs and then finds himself "blinded" when the HID user turns on his own high-beams. I feel that he brought it on himself. (With that said, I don't believe in the "turn them on and keep them on" thing, either; a quick flash back is plenty.)
It's not that people "don't like" HIDs, it's that (especially when they were still new), people mistook the dim setting for the bright one. Not everyone, not even all road geeks, keep up with changes in headlamp technology, so not everyone was immediately attuned to the idea that there was a whole new magnitude to be encountered in cars. Some drivers - not necessarily you, just an occasional jerk - would not just flash, but leave them on for several seconds. Going from rural dark to that kind of bright can be a true hazard. A quick flash is all that was needed to provide the information that, no, this is in fact the dim setting.
I've taken to flash-dimming my lights rather than flashing my brights in many situations. I do it when someone needs to turn their lights on (dimming them to show the difference). I do it when I'm giving way at an intersection/crosswalk/whatever, assuming it's dark enough to have my lights on (sort of like a headlight version of nodding my head to the other driver). I really only flash my brights anymore to warn of a danger, and then I do it multiple times to stress the point that there's something to watch out for.
Quote
HIDs
:sleep:
How do you communicate to someone behind you that their brights are on? I've tried pointing/waving, flashing brake lights or taillights... It's easy to do for oncoming traffic, but I can't just swing my car around 180 and flash them.
Quote from: Steve on June 16, 2013, 12:37:19 AM
How do you communicate to someone behind you that their brights are on? I've tried pointing/waving, flashing brake lights or taillights... It's easy to do for oncoming traffic, but I can't just swing my car around 180 and flash them.
Once upon a time you held up your hand, turned it sideways, and made a gesture similar to the one you might make when you surreptitiously want to indicate to someone that someone else is talking too much–you know, kind of opening and closing your hand as though it were a mouth. It meant "check your lights." I used that gesture successfully during the 1990s, but I think its meaning has been lost. Makes me thankful for an auto-dimming rearview mirror.
Quote from: empirestate on June 12, 2013, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on June 12, 2013, 01:54:34 PM
Over here flashing your lights can have opposite meanings to elsewhere. Instead of letting other traffic know you're coming through it's often used to let vehicles out of side roads or to let oncoming vehicles proceed if there's an obstruction in the road narrowing it down to a single lane.
On freeways truckers will flash their lights to let a truck passing them know it's safe to pull back in.
Of course, flashing lights (usually several times in quick succession) is used to inform oncoming traffic of a speedtrap or if animals are in the road.
If by "over here" you mean the U.K., it's certainly not opposite from U.S. usage, at least in my experience. But more broadly, that's an important point; evidently in my example I ran across a driver who comes from a place where flashing lights is used prohibitively rather than permissively, and it's that unspecificity of meaning in this kind of signal that got me interested in the question.
I've never encountered a situation when driving in the US or Canada where I've had someone flash their lights to let me through. I therefore assumed the US is much like mainland Europe where flashing is used prohibitively.
Funny, I just flashed my high-beams (driving my wife's car, not HIDs) yesterday in heavy traffic near Harpers Ferry, West Virginia, to signal a guy on a side road to go–and he immediately understood the gesture and went. (Aside from being friendly, I wanted to piss off the guy behind me who was being a dick and not letting anyone merge or enter from side roads.)
Quote from: Truvelo on June 16, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
I've never encountered a situation when driving in the US or Canada where I've had someone flash their lights to let me through. I therefore assumed the US is much like mainland Europe where flashing is used prohibitively.
How interesting; did you instead see the signal used prohibitively in your time in the U.S., or just not at all? And were you driving in areas where there might be a high percentage of drivers who picked up their habits overseas? Could there, indeed, be pockets of the U.S. where even native drivers use their high beams prohibitively?
QuoteHow interesting; did you instead see the signal used prohibitively in your time in the U.S., or just not at all? And were you driving in areas where there might be a high percentage of drivers who picked up their habits overseas? Could there, indeed, be pockets of the U.S. where even native drivers use their high beams prohibitively?
I've never had somebody flash their lights at me to either let me through or prohibit me, but I suspect if somebody did I'd just be confused (keeping in mind that a good 95% percent of my driving has been in Rocky Mountains/Plains/Pacific Northwest/Southwest States (excluding California) I'm not sure that light flashing is a common practice in even the whole of America.
Quote from: Steve on June 16, 2013, 12:37:19 AM
How do you communicate to someone behind you that their brights are on? I've tried pointing/waving, flashing brake lights or taillights... It's easy to do for oncoming traffic, but I can't just swing my car around 180 and flash them.
You don't have one of those scrolling LED signs in your rear window like they use in the store window of dry-cleaners and the like?
If possible, I slow down so they'll pass and stop being my problem (sucks to pass it on, but if I can't see ahead of me because I'm seeing spots from high beams, I'm in danger and need to correct it).
Sometimes I'll then give them some few-second bursts to get them to figure it out. I find that in general, this works less and less. Motorist attention to oneself and others is not what it used to be.
If someone behind you has left their turn signal running the usual thing to do is alternate left-right-left-right your own turn signal in quick succession. That usually gets them to cancel it. Again, as per my last comment, this may only be a British thing and I'm not sure how you would go about it in North America.
Quote from: Truvelo on June 30, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
If someone behind you has left their turn signal running the usual thing to do is alternate left-right-left-right your own turn signal in quick succession. That usually gets them to cancel it. Again, as per my last comment, this may only be a British thing and I'm not sure how you would go about it in North America.
It all depends on the mentality of the person behind you. Some people will understand what you are trying to do and will turn off their turn signal. Others will think that you have no clue where the hell you're trying to go. "Really? Left turn, right turn? There are no turns on the street. What an idiot!", says the guy with only their DRLs on at 10pm with the left turn signal on for 13 miles.
Speaking of - that's another reason to flash your lights - to try to get the person to understand that only their DRLs are on. About a month ago I did see someone get pulled over for this - a woman in a minivan with only her DRLs on late in the evening. She was doing about the speed limit on the highway, and was probably freaking out wonder why she got pulled over while others were passing her!
Quote from: Truvelo on June 30, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
If someone behind you has left their turn signal running the usual thing to do is alternate left-right-left-right your own turn signal in quick succession. That usually gets them to cancel it. Again, as per my last comment, this may only be a British thing and I'm not sure how you would go about it in North America.
I've done that quite a bit, even throwing in some brake lights into the mix. Only about one driver in four (or fewer) gets the message. I've given up.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 01, 2013, 08:32:18 AM
Speaking of - that's another reason to flash your lights - to try to get the person to understand that only their DRLs are on.
that, or their headlight switch is on that intermediate setting that every damn car seems to come with between "lights off" and "lights on". not once in my life have I intentionally used it, but there have been times (including once getting pulled over) where I thought I had turned the dial two full clicks, but it was only one. I fail to see what the purpose of it is other than inviting mistakes.
"Flashing the high beams" means to me, "Wooooo!! Spring break!!!"
Quote from: Truvelo on June 30, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
If someone behind you has left their turn signal running the usual thing to do is alternate left-right-left-right your own turn signal in quick succession. That usually gets them to cancel it. Again, as per my last comment, this may only be a British thing and I'm not sure how you would go about it in North America.
I tried waving my arm out the window in the direction of the blinker. Nothing. The car was also going quite slowly in front of me in the left lane and notquiteleavingenoughroom on the right for passing.
Quote from: Zeffy on June 11, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
I've seen other drivers flash their high beams to inform drivers on the opposite side of the road that there is a police car logging speeds up ahead.
While I hear this reason many times for flashing your high beams during the day, there has only been ONE person who has been kind enough to warn me of such a speedtrap. When I was a kid driving with my parents, it was much more common for people to flicker their hi-beam lights to signal a police car. I don't see it much anymore though. However, if possible, I try my best to advise fellow motorists of law enforcement looking for speeders, especially if they're hidden.
Quote from: paleocon121171 on July 02, 2013, 11:17:29 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on June 11, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
I've seen other drivers flash their high beams to inform drivers on the opposite side of the road that there is a police car logging speeds up ahead.
While I hear this reason many times for flashing your high beams during the day, there has only been ONE person who has been kind enough to warn me of such a speedtrap. When I was a kid driving with my parents, it was much more common for people to flicker their hi-beam lights to signal a police car. I don't see it much anymore though. However, if possible, I try my best to advise fellow motorists of law enforcement looking for speeders, especially if they're hidden.
Probably due to the media reports of cops looking for people flashing their high beams.
I, for one, am glad people have cut down on doing it. On several occasions I've seen people flashing their high beams. The cop car may be miles down the roadway (how long am I supposed to slow down...forever?), or has someone pulled over...on the other side of the road...with a concrete barrier preventing crossover access. Those motorists alerting me to that are probably the same people that slow down to 45 mph in the left lane when they see a cop outside the car on the opposing lanes.
I try to keep my speed fast, but not be the fastest on the roadway. And I keep an eye out far ahead for brake lights for no obvious reason. Chances are those motorists spotted a cop, and I'll slow down in preperation for a possible cop.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 30, 2013, 07:32:22 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 16, 2013, 12:37:19 AM
How do you communicate to someone behind you that their brights are on? I've tried pointing/waving, flashing brake lights or taillights... It's easy to do for oncoming traffic, but I can't just swing my car around 180 and flash them.
You don't have one of those scrolling LED signs in your rear window like they use in the store window of dry-cleaners and the like?
About 15 years ago when ZDTV was still around, I remember seeing a news story about a guy trying to market an LED text sign to to be installed in cars' rear windows. In an attempt to promote courtesy–and because people obviously shouldn't be typing while driving–it was controlled by a few buttons on the dashboard which brought up pre-programmed messages that could not be changed by the user. I think the messages were "Sorry", "Thank you", and "My fault" or something like that. The reporter concluded that it the product would be immediately hacked and the messages changed with less friendly ones.
So I guess that product never went anywhere.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 01, 2013, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 01, 2013, 08:32:18 AM
Speaking of - that's another reason to flash your lights - to try to get the person to understand that only their DRLs are on.
that, or their headlight switch is on that intermediate setting that every damn car seems to come with between "lights off" and "lights on". not once in my life have I intentionally used it, but there have been times (including once getting pulled over) where I thought I had turned the dial two full clicks, but it was only one. I fail to see what the purpose of it is other than inviting mistakes.
I think in my first few weeks of driving I turned these on at twilight. Sometime since then it has become very common to use headlights 24/7, and any real usefulness of an intermediate setting is long in the past, IMO.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2013, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 01, 2013, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 01, 2013, 08:32:18 AM
Speaking of - that's another reason to flash your lights - to try to get the person to understand that only their DRLs are on.
that, or their headlight switch is on that intermediate setting that every damn car seems to come with between "lights off" and "lights on". not once in my life have I intentionally used it, but there have been times (including once getting pulled over) where I thought I had turned the dial two full clicks, but it was only one. I fail to see what the purpose of it is other than inviting mistakes.
I think in my first few weeks of driving I turned these on at twilight. Sometime since then it has become very common to use headlights 24/7, and any real usefulness of an intermediate setting is long in the past, IMO.
My dad called them "parking lights," with the idea that you use them while parked. They keep interior lights and taillights on for safety and convenience when you don't need headlights. I usually just keep the headlights on anyway, like Pete said.
The only time they've been really useful in recent years is while parked in front of a house with a really elaborate Christmas display. You keep the taillights going for safety, while extinguishing the headlights as a courtesy to others.
I use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination. As for high beams, I have secondhand knowledge of someone pulled over for attempting to warn other motorists. (In other words, I know someone who saw it happen.)
QuoteI use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination.
I don't know what the law is in NJ, but just a heads up- that's a ticketable offense in many states, as those lights are designed to indicate a stationary vehicle (if you're pulled over on the side of the roadway in the dark, turn your parking lights on).
Quote from: corco on July 02, 2013, 08:23:57 PM
QuoteI use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination.
I don't know what the law is in NJ, but just a heads up- that's a ticketable offense in many states, as those lights are designed to indicate a stationary vehicle (if you're pulled over on the side of the roadway in the dark, turn your parking lights on).
So I'm better off not turning on any lights on a cloudy day. The law is stupid sometimes. (I'm not using headlights if they give me no benefit, as I find oncoming headlights during daylight actually hurt my vision.)
Quote from: Steve on July 02, 2013, 06:24:36 PM
I use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination. As for high beams, I have secondhand knowledge of someone pulled over for attempting to warn other motorists. (In other words, I know someone who saw it happen.)
I use parking lights when it's dark and I'm probably going to blind or annoy someone by using my headlights. Common settings include the following:
- Pulling up behind someone at an ATM after dark, I dim to parking lights.
- Driving in a parking garage, I turn on my parking lights but not my full headlights.
- Coming home, if it's after 10:00 PM, I dim to parking lights before backing into the driveway, as a courtesy to the neighbors across the street. In the winter months, when it's still dark when I go to work, I also don't turn my lights on all the way till I'm already driving on the street, for the same reason.
- Driving in a crowd after dark, such as after a sporting event, I use my parking lights so my headlights aren't shining in the eyes of people walking to their cars.
I've used parking lights at night...during snowfalls, when no one else is around. The headlights reflect off the snow, producing a blinding effect. The parking lights actually provide more illumination thru the snowflakes.
Quote from: corco on July 02, 2013, 08:23:57 PM
QuoteI use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination.
I don't know what the law is in NJ, but just a heads up- that's a ticketable offense in many states, as those lights are designed to indicate a stationary vehicle (if you're pulled over on the side of the roadway in the dark, turn your parking lights on).
Wipers on, lights on is the law in NJ.
Proper headlights don't bother me during the day, and often shorten the time it takes to notice a car in my mirrors. The idiots who drive around with high beams on during the day (you know who you are) do.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 03, 2013, 08:37:16 AM
I've used parking lights at night...during snowfalls, when no one else is around. The headlights reflect off the snow, producing a blinding effect. The parking lights actually provide more illumination thru the snowflakes.
In heavy snow, if my headlights are blinding me, I switch to parking lights plus fog lights.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 03, 2013, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: corco on July 02, 2013, 08:23:57 PM
QuoteI use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination.
I don't know what the law is in NJ, but just a heads up- that's a ticketable offense in many states, as those lights are designed to indicate a stationary vehicle (if you're pulled over on the side of the roadway in the dark, turn your parking lights on).
Wipers on, lights on is the law in NJ.
Ditto in Illinois. If your wipers are on, your lights must be on.
I just do that as good practice anyway. If I deem the level of light to be too low, I will turn my lights on.
One's headlights are not on the car to see, they are so that you can be seen.
Quote from: Brandon on July 03, 2013, 10:30:33 AM
One's headlights are not on the car to see, they are so that you can be seen.
Unfortunately, for people driving on a one lane road, not seeing them is virtually impossible.
Quote from: kphoger on July 03, 2013, 10:10:16 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 03, 2013, 08:37:16 AM
I've used parking lights at night...during snowfalls, when no one else is around. The headlights reflect off the snow, producing a blinding effect. The parking lights actually provide more illumination thru the snowflakes.
In heavy snow, if my headlights are blinding me, I switch to parking lights plus fog lights.
I like that idea. I wonder how hard it would be to rewire my fog lights to run with headlights off.
Quote from: Steve on July 02, 2013, 06:24:36 PM
I use parking lights whenever I want to be visible (cloudy, dawnish/duskish) but my headlights are not needed for illumination. As for high beams, I have secondhand knowledge of someone pulled over for attempting to warn other motorists. (In other words, I know someone who saw it happen.)
I was pulled over for that once, having accidentally flashed my brights at a cop while trying to locate the wiper control on a car I'd bought that very day, when it started to snow lightly.
I was pulled over years ago for flashing my high beams at a detective in a Ford Taurus. I had no idea it was a cop that I warned. After I flashed the Taurus to warn him of the marked police car up the road who was running radar the Taurus made an aggressive u-turn and pulled me over. He flashed his badge, looked at my credentials and told me to never help out law breakers and sent me on my way. This was about 10 years ago and I've never tried to warn another driver of a patrol car up ahead. I got his message loud and clear.
Quote from: signalman on July 07, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
I was pulled over years ago for flashing my high beams at a detective in a Ford Taurus. I had no idea it was a cop that I warned. After I flashed the Taurus to warn him of the marked police car up the road who was running radar the Taurus made an aggressive u-turn and pulled me over. He flashed his badge, looked at my credentials and told me to never help out law breakers and sent me on my way. This was about 10 years ago and I've never tried to warn another driver of a patrol car up ahead. I got his message loud and clear.
I suppose one could, if his lights are off, turn his low beams on and off again a couple of times; or, if his lights are on, he could turn them off and on again a couple of times. Neither scenario involves using high beams, but would still warn other drivers.
Quote from: signalman on July 07, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
I was pulled over years ago for flashing my high beams at a detective in a Ford Taurus. I had no idea it was a cop that I warned. After I flashed the Taurus to warn him of the marked police car up the road who was running radar the Taurus made an aggressive u-turn and pulled me over. He flashed his badge, looked at my credentials and told me to never help out law breakers and sent me on my way. This was about 10 years ago and I've never tried to warn another driver of a patrol car up ahead. I got his message loud and clear.
It makes other drivers slow down. My answer would be, "Whenever I see a lot of speeders, I flash my brights, and *poof!* there are fewer speeders, and no valuable police resources diverted from more important work.
I suppose if I was in Ohio, I'd say, "Just like that fake drug checkpoint you guys put up -- I'm following your example to lie in the name of safety."
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2013, 12:14:15 PMI suppose one could, if his lights are off, turn his low beams on and off again a couple of times; or, if his lights are on, he could turn them off and on again a couple of times. Neither scenario involves using high beams, but would still warn other drivers.
The issue here is obstruction of justice, not whether high or low beams were used. I am reasonably sure that the DA would have discarded any obstruction charges the police officer tried to file, but I totally understand Signalman not wanting to get caught up in the legal process and risk spending a night in a jail cell.
Saw this on MSN, and is totally relevant to this topic.
http://now.msn.com/michael-elli-missouri-driver-files-class-action-lawsuit-in-support-of-headlight-flashing
The obstruction-of-justice claim some cops make strikes me as absurd because you're not preventing the cops from doing their jobs in that you're not interfering with the process of writing a ticket or making an arrest or whatever; rather, you're eliminating the need for them to do it at all. It's a significant difference. A cop writes a speeding ticket if he clocks the motorist at a speed in excess of the posted limit. Flashing your lights to warn of a speedtrap simply means the other driver won't be exceeding the speed limit when he passes the cop. In other words, the cop's job is to clock motorists' speed at a designated spot and to pull over motorists going too fast if any such appear. The driver who warns of the speedtrap is not interfering with the cop's ability to clock motorists' speed at that designated spot. He's not interfering with pulling people over because the cop never had a "right" to encounter speeding motorists in the first place–for example, some roads are known enforcement spots where many, sometimes most, local drivers just slow down automatically anyway.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 16, 2013, 12:27:55 PM
The obstruction-of-justice claim some cops make strikes me as absurd because you're not preventing the cops from doing their jobs in that you're not interfering with the process of writing a ticket or making an arrest or whatever; rather, you're eliminating the need for them to do it at all. It's a significant difference. A cop writes a speeding ticket if he clocks the motorist at a speed in excess of the posted limit. Flashing your lights to warn of a speedtrap simply means the other driver won't be exceeding the speed limit when he passes the cop. In other words, the cop's job is to clock motorists' speed at a designated spot and to pull over motorists going too fast if any such appear. The driver who warns of the speedtrap is not interfering with the cop's ability to clock motorists' speed at that designated spot. He's not interfering with pulling people over because the cop never had a "right" to encounter speeding motorists in the first placefor example, some roads are known enforcement spots where many, sometimes most, local drivers just slow down automatically anyway.
I think the proper term here would be "obstruction of revenue collection", not "obstruction of justice".